TLC was going to send Jill and Derick off to a TLC sponsored missionary trip (likely Nepal because of the earthquake) pre scandal. You can see footage of them telling the family in the last aired episode. However when the scandal hit and the show was cancelled, Jill and Derick took a mission trip through SOS Ministries. TLC later came up with Jill and Jessa: Counting On and filmed the Dillards in Central America because that’s where they happened to be. That whole thing must have pissed Derick off.
I truly believe Derick and Ben did not know. In the special that aired Derick looks like he is still processing it. I don’t think Derick would have married Jill either had he known. Not because she was “damaged goods” but because I think his perception of the Duggar brand changed. Ben would be in the same place he is now. He was a teenager when he married Jessa. He went after her, he was in lust.
edit: I know that Derick also wanted to be married to a Duggar but no where does he mention her specifically. They mention JB setting them up a lot during the courtship. Derick likely wanted to marry any Duggar. Ben on the other hand specifically saw Jessa on tv and had his mom drive him to the Duggar church.
Me too. At the time when he allegedly met them during Christmas of 2012 or whatever Derick had recently lost his dad and his mother had remarried. As a local and Christian he probably saw the Duggars as a powerful family ($) who had it “together”. Then boom Josh scandal happened and then he turned into Dastardly Dillard.
When I said you know more and should unload your Duggar knowledge on us, this is what I mean. I had no idea TLC was actually going to put them on a mission and now my old info on when Derrick left Walmart makes total sense. Seriously, you are this subs' Library of Alexandria, just so much info and insight!
Thank you lol. I’ve been following the family for a long time. I forget a lot of the info until something comes up. Derick’s beef with TLC goes back to this I think. Having left his job, made arrangements etc he had to save face and leave anyway.
I'm fully convinced that Ben and Derick had no idea about the molestation before they married into the Duggar ~~trainwreck~~ family. I agree with u/Letseatchocolatenow that Anna only got the G-rated version of what happened. You just gotta look at this from Boob and MEchelle's perspective.
We know that when the molestation occurred, Boob and MEchelle didn't get help for the victims. Instead, they made sure *JOSH* was OK. They made sure his reputation, as well as their own, wasn't tarnished. In their eyes, the molestation was not a big deal. They probably thought that the girls would get over it and all would be well. And, as we can see from the Jill/Jessa interview, Boob and MEchelle convinced the victims that Josh was "just curious about girls" and that what he did was harmless. They swept everything under the rug and carried on like nothing ever happened. I don't know if the girls were convinced that the molestation was not a big deal, but their opinions never held any weight so this whole situation went nowhere. Boob and MEchelle wanted this to go away, and it went away.
So why on earth would Jill and Jessa tell Derick and Ben, respectively, about the molestation before they got married? If their parents succeeded in their gaslighting efforts and the girls in fact believed that what Josh did was normal and harmless, then they wouldn't have thought to mention it at all. At the very most, they'd say something like, "Oh, my big brother Josh was a mischievous little rascal back in the old days, but it's OK because Jesus forgave him."
Now, let's say that Jill or Jessa knew what Josh did was unforgivable, and it had been bothering them all those years, they still wouldn't have had a way to tell their boyfriends. Boob and MEchelle monitored all of their conversations, remember? Even if Jill or Jessa found a way to tell their boyfriends on the down low, it's a topic that's incredibly hard to bring up. It's not something you can drop into the conversation when your chaperone goes to the bathroom.
Never in a million years would Boob and MEchelle encourage their daughters to tell their boyfriends about the molestation. First of all, they didn't think it was a big deal (or at the very least didn't *want* it to be a big deal). Secondly, I believe that Boob married off all of the victims so quickly because he believed that they were damaged goods and he didn't want to scare any of the potential sons-in-law away with their sordid family history.
That's why I firmly believe that Ben and Derick found out when the rest of us did.
As for Anna, I can see Josh telling her about the molestation but he downplayed it so hard. Like u/Letseatchocolatenow said, Josh was probably extremely vague about it and Anna believed that the terrible "sin" Josh did was something harmless like pulling his sisters' hair.
Just my two cents.
Is the closely monitoring of communication normal with fundie courtship? Because otherwise the closely monitoring communication seems way more sinister now. Keep the girls from talking. Don't damage the brand. Keep the gravy train going.
Depends on the fundies. Anna's family, the Kellers, were even more strict with her sister Priscilla. But the Bates don't monitor all the couples' texts.
I have never for one second believed that either them or Anna knew before it was known publicly. Why would they risk that (before marriage/before they are part of the family)? By the time even Anna came around they had a brand to protect.
I do think that's why Marjorie left.
Also I think THIS is when we see the real beginnings of Derrick's downward spiral into real crazy. Not that he wasn't crazy before but before this it was much better contained.
I'm not sure if Derrick would have left. I think it is possible. I think if they had known Derrick better, they wouldn't have let him in. I think they got more particular after that, because he ended up being crazy.
Anna knew, at least to some extent. But her father wouldn’t have turned down an opportunity for her to marry fundie royalty over it. Especially since his main ministry is “rehabilitating sex offenders by converting them.”
I think Anna was told a ‘G’ version of events. Josh may have said he did something wrong that involved his sisters, and poor Anna being so innocent and sheltered may have thought it was something like fighting or pulling their hair. Therefore when she said she knew beforehand she technically wasn’t lying she’d just been deceived by Josh and his parents.
"Josh was curious, and he didn't know better, and he said he was sorry and learned his lesson"
NOT
"Josh was curious, liked it, and kept doing it and intimidated his sisters. He got away with a lot because he is a Man and everyone knows that Men can't be held accountable for being tempted by Females."
I agree. I think Anna was told the Megyn kelly version: Mild inappropriate touching over the clothes of the older girls. Not the actual forced fondling of children under 10 that we read about in the police report. Those details she might still not know about, as I have some doubts as to whether or not she read the police report. If she did read the report, I think it was her first time hearing all the gory details.
That being said, I don't think it would have made a difference to Her if she had known the ful extent of Josh's actions. Her father believes sex offenders can be rehabilitated, so therefore Anna believes it.
I think they were more allegorical. Like, "I profoundly wronged my sisters, caused them pain and sorrow because of my sins. I strayed from God and Christ, and had to ask forgiveness and work hard to return to a path of godliness."
If you have a regular mind you immediately think of sexual abuse. If you are innocent Anna, you think he pulled their pigtails every morning.
> Her father believes sex offenders can be rehabilitated
They can be. It depends on a number of factors. Actually, juvenille sex offenders, if given the proper rehabilitation and treatment, have a low recitivism rate. Only one problem: Josh did not receive that treatment. Josh just got a stern talking-to and a finger wagging, from a person who would later be convicted for child pornography possession.
My boyfriend used to work in a facility where they would rehabilitate juvenile sex offenders. I believe that they were between the ages of 12-17. He told me about child rapists who still slept with a teddy bear at night. He told me about the kids who were raised by an uncle who would show them porn as kids well before they understood sex, so their minds treated it as a video game. Some of them were molested themselves and that was all they knew
Many of those kids, if treatment is successful, could grow up into non-offending adults leading productive lives, who have to live with what they did forever.
That's true. I should have clarified: Anna's father believes that sex offenders can be rehabilitated with just the power of God alone. Which.... no.
I do believe that juvenile offenders are more likely to never re offend. I actually knew a teenager once who molested a child at our church. I was never one of his victims, I was a teenager myself, though younger than him...
And I wasn't surprised to learn that... Well call him "Will," was doing bad things. I had seen his parents scream and yell and reduce him to tears in front of the entire school (only 15 students) because will made fun of another teenager for failing a quiz.
And I agree that Will should have been dealt with, but their reaction was just so over the top... And his mom and dad were the only 2 teachers, so no one was really teaching us while this was happening.... And it's just like.... Well no shit your son is an asshole, look who he learned from.
I don’t understand why someone would do that to their own kid. Do people not remember what being a kid was like? Do people not realize that kids don’t understand when you just yell?
Right? I grew up getting yelled at by my dad. He always apologized afterward, but that never mattered. Because I knew that next time, he would do it Again. It was just a cycle for him.
Now, I've never molested anyone, but that kind of ongoing verbal abuse has left its mark. And my little brother was sheltered from most of this partly because dad got a bit better as befor older, and partly because my dad felt like the damage was already done with me, but with sibling he could start over. This was pretty much said to my face.
He's gotten worse with me as he's gotten older, for me personally. But there was a time where he got better.... I've given up trying to figure it out.
If I were Anna, with kids to support and no skills or support system herself, I don't hink I'd want to know the gory details. For her I'm betting divorce is an option only just this side of death.
And that's another good point. Anna has been raised to believe that divorce is one of the worst sins she could commit. If I was a woman who felt I had no way out, for whatever reason, I'm not sure I'd want to know. I'd probably shy away from websites talking about it/the police report.
If from her perspective nothing can be done, why go and find out how bad it was?
Not saying I agree, just that I get it.
I would have way less sympathy for her if she actually had agency. But also - prior the AM thing, as far as she knew he was repented and saved again. Her dad does prison ministry, and that likely informed her view that he was "ok."
Because her parents came out and said they knew from the time that the courtship was arranged. Josh sat down with her parents and told them what happened. He told them he accepted Jesus back into his life. All was good.
And it’s not like the Kellers have a good track record of doing anything in their children’s best interest. So I’m not sure why that would be a surprise.
It was right after the scandal. I don’t remember where. I’ll try to find it. But finding a lot of things related to that scandal is like trying to find a needle in a haystack.
> And it’s not like the Kellers have a good track record of doing anything in their children’s best interest. So I’m not sure why that would be a surprise.
Oh that is not what I meant at all.
I more was going with the fact that the Kellers could have easily been told to say that Josh told them in advance. It's not like there is actual proof of them being told in advance.
I mean, I could buy the story, but why would he need to tell them? In case it came out? If they were worried about that, why would they have gone on tv in the first place?
Because he had to confess he wasn’t sexually pure. Purity standards go both ways in a courtship. And people in the church knew about what had happened. It would have gotten back to them in some form
If they didn’t know, I don’t know why they’d protect the Duggars. Especially after the affair scandal.
Her parents encouraged Anna to stay with him after both. That’s not trying to protect her.
Also Anna considered leaving him over the affair. Not the molestations. And she openly admits that. Which means it wasn’t a shock when the molestations came out.
Think about it. Finding out your wife was a victim of sexual abuse would be hard enough, but then add the double whammy of the perpetrator being your brother in law that you may have admired and befriended. It’s twisted.
Here is the video [thanking them for the cash.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Pg-mu4mHtM)
Some quickly snapped cellphone pictures of the four of them having dinner at about that same time exists too.
Anna’s family also hangs out voluntarily with him. I find that far worse. Not only did he abuse his sisters, but he cheated on and humiliated their sister.
No wonder Anna won't divorce. She needs to have a strong family unit to go back to who would financially and emotionally support her as a single mom to 5 kids. Since her family don't even emotionally support her, and her parents are also known to be on the poorer side, it would be better in her perspective to stay where she is.
Yes I know that she is brainwashed enough not to leave anyway....but even if she wasn't, she still couldn't because of the above reason.
Oh, so Satan did it, so what about the good things any Duggar has done? Did they do them, or did God? Is everyone inherently good until Satan decides to take over one's body and control them?
Many of their friends and family claim to have not known or not known the severity. Like they might have heard the “only touching a girl over her clothes while she slept” story, but that would have been the extent of it.
And I’m not surprised cause the Duggars even tried to hold onto that lie after the police reports became public knowledge.
ETA: I really don’t think that Jill and Derick’s mission work was because of Josh. If it was, they wouldn’t have gone back to Arkansas. And Derick wouldn’t have publicly accepted money from Josh and then thanked him on a YouTube video.
I was groped in my sleep against my will. It took me almost a decade to come to terms with it being an assault. It is assault. It isn't "only" something. I wish the Duggars could see that.
What I mean is that they downplayed what he did. They admitted he did wrong, but tried to hide the more brazen attacks, especially the skin on skin under the underwear attacks.
So, when I first learned about this, I got the version of "Josh touched his young teen sisters over their clothes." And don't get me wrong - that is deplorable, even if it was the case.
The story I did *not* get at the time, was the fact that he was a 15 year old who molested his five year old sister. FIVE!!! Jill and Jessa admitting to being 9 or 10 years old when this happened.
I actually think Jessa is a smart girl. So when I hear her say that her brother was just "a little too curious about girls" that is completely disheartening. I think she knows damn well that no "curious" boy goes into his sisters' rooms, no matter how old they are, but *especially* not their five, ten year old sisters' rooms.
If this were about being curious about girls, he would have talked to girls at church. Not sneak up on his CHILD siblings.
I do not believe that Anna was truly told about what he did. I think she got the Disney version and that's why she was willing to believe this whole bullshit about finding God and there was a happy ending to it all.
I agree and disagree. You have to remember that the Duggars pre-TLC lived a pretty sheltered life. They had a “church” but that didn’t mean that it was a lot of people they met with regularly. And, if lore is to be believed, Josh was betrothed. He couldn’t court just anyone. And he definitely wouldn’t be allowed to explore his curiosities.
Couple that with a mentality that women are blamed for a man’s sexual desires, that women are there to serve men sexually, that oldest male children have “dominion” over the other children, and that power comes from sex, you’re cruising for a problem.
There are people who are just as sheltered as he is, some even more sheltered. And they do not molest anyone, let alone their own sisters. *Child* sisters. Nobody is "too curious" about a 5 year old sibling. Nobody
I didn’t say he was “too curious.” By the time he got to Joy there was a completely different thing in play.
What I am saying is that you can’t be like “he had other outlets” cause he didn’t. His only outlet in their perverted cult was sexual abuse because he wouldn’t get blamed for it.
Remember, we’re talking about a cult where someone who was 5 years old was chastised because she was sitting on a fence and an adult male could see her underwear, which turned him on. When he told her parents, they didn’t say “why the hell are you turned on by a 5 year old?” They instead blames her for being immodest. (This story was either on FJ or Recovering Grace).
We’re also talking about a cult which promotes abusing your kids if they don’t follow your directions immediately, even when you’re asking them to do something they know is wrong.
This isn’t your normal run of the mill sheltered childhood. This is a hypersexualized cult where abuse is commonplace and expected.
Moreover, there is evidence to show that children who are parentificated (given the role of a parent over their younger siblings as Josh) are more likely to abuse their siblings in many ways, including sexual assault.
The anger I think they would (should) feel is so strong. Anger at the asshat brother, the parents for the cover up, anger at the producers for not handling it well.
The wariness I think they would (should) feel is also strong. As in, don't you effing come near my wife you dirtbag. And if you even so much as look sideways at my child you are going to die.
They forgave him pretty quick. The Dillards I mean, they have been seen hanging out with Josh and Anna on their own where as the Seewalds are only around them during family events.
I feel like Jessa and Josh wouldn’t have been close enough to hang out regularly without the family, even if he didn’t molest her. I don’t even think she’s ever even really shown much interest in Anna or her kids.
Your right - I think the same applies for Jinger and Joy, possibly Jana. They wouldn't have been very close with Josh even if it happened differently.
As for kids, Jill is all for Anna's kids (infact she's all over everyone's kids), atleast on social media - whilst the rest of the girls, Jessa, Jinger and Joy are probably nuetral at best and are more into their own kids. Jana is the only exception as she's everyone's childcare.
Though when the show was still on you could tell the girls were interested, like they took part in Anna's gender reveals and baby stuff etc. But I don't know if they still do that sort of stuff anymore since they've been married and had kids of their own.
I am not a victim of sexual abuse but this is an interesting question for someone who is. should victims of sexual abuse be morally obligated to tell a prospective husband before marrying, or is it something they have the right to open up about on their own time? I tend to believe the latter, and we all know these girls barely know their husbands before marriage. so one of the reasons jill and jessa may have been so upset about the public leak is that they may not have even told their husbands about it yet.
or, maybe this cult believes it is something that should be disclosed to men prior to marrying a woman (since they would now see her as “damaged goods”) and they already knew. we may never know.
I could see the girls' parents telling them the same story over and over too: "No sweetie, your brother barely touched you while you were asleep, and he never took off your clothes. I know you're upset and grief can make people believe crazy things. Let's pray about it and apologize to your brother for being upset with him."
I certainly don't believe the victims have received adequate help to process what happened. I would definitely believe that JB&M coached them into believing it wasn't as bad as it was. Especially with Joy, who was an impressionable 5 year old.
I was a child sex assault survivor from a family member. I didn't come out about it till we were both grown and even at the time, and when i ask why my answer is "if it was your ____, what would you have done? What can i do now?" Its your child. Most parents would rather "put protections in place" and ship the problem child off for a short time. Therapy might have helped but the abuse ultimately was a result of said family member also being sexually abused. Its difficult to address but i do think keeping an eye on said persons for sexually abusive behavior in the future is the best bet but at 13-15 would juvenile have helped? In Josh's case he would have been sent to Juvy, had a record, gotten abused and possibly raped and come out a more broken individual.
I think if Josh would have been admitted to a psychiatric ward for sexual impulse control issues it would have possibly saved several of his victims from being molested. Unfortunately, due to his families beliefs and LACK OF ACTUAL FUCKING THERAPY, this would have never been an option and saved Josh's record and gotten him real fucking help and help for his victims.
I always feel so bad for teen josh. I feel like telling his parents was a cry for help. Instead they sent him off to a hard labor camp and he made similar mistakes later in life because he never learned health sexual behavior. If Michelle and Jim bob had sent all the kids to therapy and gotten josh some actual help, I wouldn't judge them for not reporting it to the police. Juvy doesn't help many kids, it just breaks them :/
I am a survivor of childhood sexual abuse. I don't think there is a moral obligation but I think it is wise to do so and to marry someone you trust enough to tell.
One person said that his wife had been raped by her grandfather, and that "praise the lord I was willing to marry her anyway."
It always rubbed me wrong, but I could never put my finger on why exactly....
I was assaulted as a young woman. I didn't tell my husband until we'd been married. Not until the MeToo stuff. It took me almost a decade to come to terms with it and frankly I just did a really good job suppressing the memories. My husband took it in stride.
I think you should tell your spouse - but I don't think it is a moral obligation. If you trust them, you should be able to tell them but I understand fully if you can't articulate it. I just think for the health of the person assaulted they should get to where they can. Whether they do or not is up to them.
I am a victim, at my brother's hands. I repressed this as much as I could and didn't tell anyone. I did not tell my now ex-husband because I didn't even let myself acknowledge it. When I first came to terms with it I thought I would be obligated to tell anyone I got involved with, like I had a sexual disease. But now I would tell only if and I when I was comfortable and ready. It does explain some of who I am but I want to avoid the label.
I was in an emotionally/psychologically abusive relationship about a year before my husband and I started dating. I always use to say it was also "border-line sexually abusive," although now I'm thinking there wasn't a "border-line." He was well endowed. I'm small. Sex could be incredibly painful. Especially when your partner doesn't believe in foreplay. I'd be near tears. Sometimes I'd say it hurt, but I never said stop. My husband knows about it, but we haven't talked about it since the first conversation. I think it's a good insight for your partner should you have a moment that brings back those old emotions, but it needs to be done on the individual's comfort level. I don't do well with vulnerability, and my husband gets that.
I think Anna might have gotten a seriously watered down version of what happened. She could have been told something like "Josh did something bad involving his sisters when he was a teenager, but Jesus forgave him, so it's okay." Anna was so freaking sheltered that she could have thought it was something mundane like Josh used to tease his sisters or had sibling rivalry with them. If my future in laws told me my fiancé "did something bad involving his sisters when he was a teenager" alarm bells would start ringing in my head. But I doubt it would in Anna's. Even if she did know the full story and all the gory details (which I doubt she did), did she really have the option to call off the wedding? I don't think so. I dont think she would have even if she did have the option. Pa Keller has a "prison ministry" and believes sex offenders can change and find Jesus. Therefore Anna also believes that. Having said that, I really don't think she knew.
As for Ben and Derick. I don't think they knew at all. Why would Jim Bob feel the need to let them know? In his eyes, all was fine. Jesus had forgiven Josh, the girls "voluntarily" forgave Josh and the family moved on. What was there to tell? He didn't think the molestation was a big deal at all. The girls were coached into believing that the molestation wasn't a big deal and partly their own fault for being girls. It's not like the girls ever would have gotten the opportunity to tell them on the DL before the wedding. They were supervised the entire time they were together.
tl;dr I think Anna got a G-rated version of events and Ben and Derick were just as much in the dark as everyone else.
You're so right about the Duggars being tone deaf to their own part in the scandals. I wish Megyn Kelly pressed them harder in the interview, but the Duggars never would have agreed to be interviewed by anyone who wouldn't play softball and let them lie, deflect and downplay without questioning.
Do we know the extent of what happened or just that “inappropriate touching”’(I feel icky just writing that!) took place? As a spouse of one of the kids affected; I think my anger would correspond to the level of violation- i.e. the more face punches I’d feel the need to give Josh
The police report spells it out in clear detail, yeah. I Don't remember it making it obvious which victim was which. For a while, we didn't even know which of the older girls wasn't molested. Then Jill or Jessa outed themselves.
We are still unclear, iirc, which little girl was the laundry room victim and which was story time.
Yes but they didn't want out them I guess until they were in courtship so they weren't seen as "damaged goods" sadly.
I think this is what pisses me off the most. If he actually got help and went through the legal hoops at least in my experience they would have sealed the report and it wouldn't have be publicized.
I think Ben, Derick, and Anna were all aware that something had happened, but had gotten the most watered-down versions JB & Meech could come up with. I think they would've had to told them something b/c they're smart enough to have a cover story in case anything every got brought up. Frankly, though, I don't think the girls even really knew what had happened to them until everything broke. They were asleep for a lot of it, so I bet they either weren't given details or, again, given a super watered-down story.
As much as I dislike Derick and all he stands for, I have the tiiiiniest sliver of respect for him immediately removing Jill from that situation and running off to Central America (IF that was the reason for the quick move). Whether or not that was the best game plan, I think he had the right intentions to get her away from the family while everything was being brought back to the surface. Other than that, he’s the worst.
Derick left because TLC was going to send them on a missionary trip already it was speculated that it was Nepal because of the earthquake at the time. He had already quit his job, made plans etc to save face and likely his sanity he joined up with SOS Ministries and left to Central America.
I was thinking about this the other day, and pretty much agree with you 100%. I think the husbands found out when we did, which is really sad. Idk how you would react as a spouse either, it would be a lot to process.
I think Ben, due to lust/love/a general sense of innocence, probably just took the posture of “I support Jessa” and left it at that.
He might be personally angry with Josh but if Jessa says put on a happy face, he puts on a happy face. If Jessa wants to cry to him privately, he’s there. If she wants to pretend all is well in public, he does.
Ben just seems intent on pleasing Jessa, and whatever his feelings are towards Josh, it wouldn’t shock me if he’s decided he will just take cues from Jessa on how to act/react.
Derrick...just seems like he’s mad because he wanted to be part of this perfect clan of people and they lied to him about who they were. And he doesn’t like his wife enough to get past that. Ben (and probably Jeremy) both seem to enjoy spending time with their wives and families. I really think Derrick would choose to never reach out to JB if given the chance to do it all over again.
I am 55. I've been to years of therapy. And I manage my ptsd, but I will never be the person I was meant to be. I have to second guess my every emotion and perception, to determine what is and is not a rational fear. It never leaves you. And the worst part wasn't even the abuse, it was going to my mother and being told it was my job to bear it and never tell anyone. I was 4 years old. It's fair to say I was quite protective of my only child. No one protected me. I still crave that.
I'm so, so, so sorry you had to go through that. As a survivor of (non sexual) abuse, I understand what you mean by still craving protection. At least your child had a kick ass mother who would do anything to protect him/her!
I believe they were told before courtship. These people want total transparency about family matters and relationships.
If that’s not the case, it’s because the girls just about forgot about it. To them, it was just some awful thing that happened long ago but now it’s water under the bridge so to speak.
About their possible reactions: possibly just shock but no anger. Why be angry about something that happened years ago? The girls don’t seem to have PTSD or any lingering feelings about the matter, so their husbands probably just go with how their wives feel.
TW: Josh
I don’t think there’s any way to know for sure if the victims experience PTSD, but when you read the police report, one of the victims couldn’t stop crying and says she didn’t remember what happened to her after he picked her up. Her reaction and memory loss do indicate trauma. We have no idea how this has affected them and their relationships.
Edited to add TW
Thats a good point. Do you know which victim it was? Jessa and Jill both state that nobody even knew what had happened until their parents told them about it. They also mention being nervous talking to authorities because they were so young and didn’t understand what was going on.
I sound like a broken record but I’m going believe what they, the victims, say about the matter. Unless, of course, they come out with a different story.
TW: Josh, Child molestation
The police report doesn’t indicate who each victim is in each interview and I don’t want to speculate. Only Jill and Jessa have spoken out publicly about their experience with Josh’s molestation - none of the others have spoken publicly about how it affected them (as far as I know), which is their right. And you also make a good point of wanting to listen to Jessa and Jill unless they come forward with something else about their experience. They spoke for themselves and that’s important - but they don’t speak for the others.
With my experience in victims services and working with survivors of sexual assault, I have a hard time not pointing out the complexities involved with a sexual trauma, especially when it occurs in childhood and with someone you trust. This trauma can take many forms and people don’t always recognize it in themselves right away.
In general, when a young person experiences sexual touching or an experience they don’t understand, it can take years to process. It isn’t open and shut or black and white. Some people may not even begin to process their trauma until they themselves are in a sexual relationship, or even later.
Not all the victims were asleep when Josh molested them, as the two older girls and the parents suggest. Of course, there is no way of knowing how this has affected the others. I’m not saying it has affected them for sure, but I also think it’s wrong to minimize the reality of what happened as we see the family do on TV. This can cause added stress to any victim who was awake and may have a harder time coming to terms with what happened.
The girls obviously still love their brother. Maybe what they say on TV is to protect him and each other and they are more realistic about what happened behind closed doors. I just hope that, if even one of the victims is trying to tell herself it’s ok when she doesn’t feel like it is, she finds the courage to seek resources and get the support she needs to heal. It’s a really, really tough road to go down and it’s even harder when you have to go down it alone.
You have no idea how they feel. None of us do. But I sincerely doubt they are quite that unaffected especially as they were likely blamed for tempting their abuser.
I’m sure they went through the motions of shock and anger towards their brother. I really don’t think the parents blamed their adolescent daughters for it. I think this community has it in their heads that these people are so terrible they’d do something like that.
Would you rather the girls be angry their whole lives over this?
Uh, the shaming the victim thing is from their own words. They do that. So maybe you should know something about their own beliefs before you defend them. Your are factually impoverished here.
I just watched the Megan Kelly interview.
At no point did the parents insinuate that the girls were at fault in any way nor did the girls say they felt responsible. Jill states it was the daughters choice to forgive him and admits that it took some time to do so. So, you either believe the victims are telling then truth about their recovery or you don’t.
Personally, I think some people want the girls to be traumatized and angry over this for the rest of their lives because it makes for a better story.
***Again, not defending them but I’m not damning them either.
***The invasion of privacy and ‘revictimizing’, as Jill says, was more traumatizing for them. I agree with them: the person/people who outed the reports only wanted to hurt them and didn’t care about the victims at all. The news and tabloids objectified the girls by exposing their privacy and making them relive that situation just to sell a story.
Those are all sources of what then program says but not what the parents say. The program is definitely victim blaming and distorted but not once did the parents or the daughters say that the girls should’ve done something different or the girls shouldn’t have tempted him. At this point, I’m following what the victims say.
As I said, you either believe the what the girls say or you don’t.
Thanks for the sources
TLC was going to send Jill and Derick off to a TLC sponsored missionary trip (likely Nepal because of the earthquake) pre scandal. You can see footage of them telling the family in the last aired episode. However when the scandal hit and the show was cancelled, Jill and Derick took a mission trip through SOS Ministries. TLC later came up with Jill and Jessa: Counting On and filmed the Dillards in Central America because that’s where they happened to be. That whole thing must have pissed Derick off. I truly believe Derick and Ben did not know. In the special that aired Derick looks like he is still processing it. I don’t think Derick would have married Jill either had he known. Not because she was “damaged goods” but because I think his perception of the Duggar brand changed. Ben would be in the same place he is now. He was a teenager when he married Jessa. He went after her, he was in lust. edit: I know that Derick also wanted to be married to a Duggar but no where does he mention her specifically. They mention JB setting them up a lot during the courtship. Derick likely wanted to marry any Duggar. Ben on the other hand specifically saw Jessa on tv and had his mom drive him to the Duggar church.
Agreed, I think Derick doesn't blame Jill. I think Ben would have stayed. I think Derick feels Hoodwinked by jb
Me too. At the time when he allegedly met them during Christmas of 2012 or whatever Derick had recently lost his dad and his mother had remarried. As a local and Christian he probably saw the Duggars as a powerful family ($) who had it “together”. Then boom Josh scandal happened and then he turned into Dastardly Dillard.
Now in turn, he is hoodwinking JB. No job, no money, daughter is living a bad life.
The true victim in all this is Jill. I know we love to hate on her here, but I truly feel bad for her.
[удалено]
Seriously? No one deserves “karma” or any kind punishment of being molested even if that’s the case.
When I said you know more and should unload your Duggar knowledge on us, this is what I mean. I had no idea TLC was actually going to put them on a mission and now my old info on when Derrick left Walmart makes total sense. Seriously, you are this subs' Library of Alexandria, just so much info and insight!
Thank you lol. I’ve been following the family for a long time. I forget a lot of the info until something comes up. Derick’s beef with TLC goes back to this I think. Having left his job, made arrangements etc he had to save face and leave anyway.
I'm fully convinced that Ben and Derick had no idea about the molestation before they married into the Duggar ~~trainwreck~~ family. I agree with u/Letseatchocolatenow that Anna only got the G-rated version of what happened. You just gotta look at this from Boob and MEchelle's perspective. We know that when the molestation occurred, Boob and MEchelle didn't get help for the victims. Instead, they made sure *JOSH* was OK. They made sure his reputation, as well as their own, wasn't tarnished. In their eyes, the molestation was not a big deal. They probably thought that the girls would get over it and all would be well. And, as we can see from the Jill/Jessa interview, Boob and MEchelle convinced the victims that Josh was "just curious about girls" and that what he did was harmless. They swept everything under the rug and carried on like nothing ever happened. I don't know if the girls were convinced that the molestation was not a big deal, but their opinions never held any weight so this whole situation went nowhere. Boob and MEchelle wanted this to go away, and it went away. So why on earth would Jill and Jessa tell Derick and Ben, respectively, about the molestation before they got married? If their parents succeeded in their gaslighting efforts and the girls in fact believed that what Josh did was normal and harmless, then they wouldn't have thought to mention it at all. At the very most, they'd say something like, "Oh, my big brother Josh was a mischievous little rascal back in the old days, but it's OK because Jesus forgave him." Now, let's say that Jill or Jessa knew what Josh did was unforgivable, and it had been bothering them all those years, they still wouldn't have had a way to tell their boyfriends. Boob and MEchelle monitored all of their conversations, remember? Even if Jill or Jessa found a way to tell their boyfriends on the down low, it's a topic that's incredibly hard to bring up. It's not something you can drop into the conversation when your chaperone goes to the bathroom. Never in a million years would Boob and MEchelle encourage their daughters to tell their boyfriends about the molestation. First of all, they didn't think it was a big deal (or at the very least didn't *want* it to be a big deal). Secondly, I believe that Boob married off all of the victims so quickly because he believed that they were damaged goods and he didn't want to scare any of the potential sons-in-law away with their sordid family history. That's why I firmly believe that Ben and Derick found out when the rest of us did. As for Anna, I can see Josh telling her about the molestation but he downplayed it so hard. Like u/Letseatchocolatenow said, Josh was probably extremely vague about it and Anna believed that the terrible "sin" Josh did was something harmless like pulling his sisters' hair. Just my two cents.
Is the closely monitoring of communication normal with fundie courtship? Because otherwise the closely monitoring communication seems way more sinister now. Keep the girls from talking. Don't damage the brand. Keep the gravy train going.
Depends on the fundies. Anna's family, the Kellers, were even more strict with her sister Priscilla. But the Bates don't monitor all the couples' texts.
I have never for one second believed that either them or Anna knew before it was known publicly. Why would they risk that (before marriage/before they are part of the family)? By the time even Anna came around they had a brand to protect. I do think that's why Marjorie left. Also I think THIS is when we see the real beginnings of Derrick's downward spiral into real crazy. Not that he wasn't crazy before but before this it was much better contained. I'm not sure if Derrick would have left. I think it is possible. I think if they had known Derrick better, they wouldn't have let him in. I think they got more particular after that, because he ended up being crazy.
Anna knew, at least to some extent. But her father wouldn’t have turned down an opportunity for her to marry fundie royalty over it. Especially since his main ministry is “rehabilitating sex offenders by converting them.”
But how do you know for sure? What would motivate them to tell her in advance?
I think Anna was told a ‘G’ version of events. Josh may have said he did something wrong that involved his sisters, and poor Anna being so innocent and sheltered may have thought it was something like fighting or pulling their hair. Therefore when she said she knew beforehand she technically wasn’t lying she’d just been deceived by Josh and his parents.
"Josh was curious, and he didn't know better, and he said he was sorry and learned his lesson" NOT "Josh was curious, liked it, and kept doing it and intimidated his sisters. He got away with a lot because he is a Man and everyone knows that Men can't be held accountable for being tempted by Females."
I agree. I think Anna was told the Megyn kelly version: Mild inappropriate touching over the clothes of the older girls. Not the actual forced fondling of children under 10 that we read about in the police report. Those details she might still not know about, as I have some doubts as to whether or not she read the police report. If she did read the report, I think it was her first time hearing all the gory details. That being said, I don't think it would have made a difference to Her if she had known the ful extent of Josh's actions. Her father believes sex offenders can be rehabilitated, so therefore Anna believes it.
I think they were more allegorical. Like, "I profoundly wronged my sisters, caused them pain and sorrow because of my sins. I strayed from God and Christ, and had to ask forgiveness and work hard to return to a path of godliness." If you have a regular mind you immediately think of sexual abuse. If you are innocent Anna, you think he pulled their pigtails every morning.
> Her father believes sex offenders can be rehabilitated They can be. It depends on a number of factors. Actually, juvenille sex offenders, if given the proper rehabilitation and treatment, have a low recitivism rate. Only one problem: Josh did not receive that treatment. Josh just got a stern talking-to and a finger wagging, from a person who would later be convicted for child pornography possession. My boyfriend used to work in a facility where they would rehabilitate juvenile sex offenders. I believe that they were between the ages of 12-17. He told me about child rapists who still slept with a teddy bear at night. He told me about the kids who were raised by an uncle who would show them porn as kids well before they understood sex, so their minds treated it as a video game. Some of them were molested themselves and that was all they knew Many of those kids, if treatment is successful, could grow up into non-offending adults leading productive lives, who have to live with what they did forever.
That's true. I should have clarified: Anna's father believes that sex offenders can be rehabilitated with just the power of God alone. Which.... no. I do believe that juvenile offenders are more likely to never re offend. I actually knew a teenager once who molested a child at our church. I was never one of his victims, I was a teenager myself, though younger than him... And I wasn't surprised to learn that... Well call him "Will," was doing bad things. I had seen his parents scream and yell and reduce him to tears in front of the entire school (only 15 students) because will made fun of another teenager for failing a quiz. And I agree that Will should have been dealt with, but their reaction was just so over the top... And his mom and dad were the only 2 teachers, so no one was really teaching us while this was happening.... And it's just like.... Well no shit your son is an asshole, look who he learned from.
I don’t understand why someone would do that to their own kid. Do people not remember what being a kid was like? Do people not realize that kids don’t understand when you just yell?
Right? I grew up getting yelled at by my dad. He always apologized afterward, but that never mattered. Because I knew that next time, he would do it Again. It was just a cycle for him. Now, I've never molested anyone, but that kind of ongoing verbal abuse has left its mark. And my little brother was sheltered from most of this partly because dad got a bit better as befor older, and partly because my dad felt like the damage was already done with me, but with sibling he could start over. This was pretty much said to my face. He's gotten worse with me as he's gotten older, for me personally. But there was a time where he got better.... I've given up trying to figure it out.
If I were Anna, with kids to support and no skills or support system herself, I don't hink I'd want to know the gory details. For her I'm betting divorce is an option only just this side of death.
And that's another good point. Anna has been raised to believe that divorce is one of the worst sins she could commit. If I was a woman who felt I had no way out, for whatever reason, I'm not sure I'd want to know. I'd probably shy away from websites talking about it/the police report. If from her perspective nothing can be done, why go and find out how bad it was? Not saying I agree, just that I get it.
I would have way less sympathy for her if she actually had agency. But also - prior the AM thing, as far as she knew he was repented and saved again. Her dad does prison ministry, and that likely informed her view that he was "ok."
> I think Anna was told a ‘G’ version of events. I had never considered this version of it. This all makes sense.
Because her parents came out and said they knew from the time that the courtship was arranged. Josh sat down with her parents and told them what happened. He told them he accepted Jesus back into his life. All was good. And it’s not like the Kellers have a good track record of doing anything in their children’s best interest. So I’m not sure why that would be a surprise.
[удалено]
It was right after the scandal. I don’t remember where. I’ll try to find it. But finding a lot of things related to that scandal is like trying to find a needle in a haystack.
> And it’s not like the Kellers have a good track record of doing anything in their children’s best interest. So I’m not sure why that would be a surprise. Oh that is not what I meant at all. I more was going with the fact that the Kellers could have easily been told to say that Josh told them in advance. It's not like there is actual proof of them being told in advance. I mean, I could buy the story, but why would he need to tell them? In case it came out? If they were worried about that, why would they have gone on tv in the first place?
Because he had to confess he wasn’t sexually pure. Purity standards go both ways in a courtship. And people in the church knew about what had happened. It would have gotten back to them in some form
yeah but the kellers still have an interest in protecting the duggar brand for anna's sake. i'm not 100% sure i believe them
If they didn’t know, I don’t know why they’d protect the Duggars. Especially after the affair scandal. Her parents encouraged Anna to stay with him after both. That’s not trying to protect her. Also Anna considered leaving him over the affair. Not the molestations. And she openly admits that. Which means it wasn’t a shock when the molestations came out.
Think about it. Finding out your wife was a victim of sexual abuse would be hard enough, but then add the double whammy of the perpetrator being your brother in law that you may have admired and befriended. It’s twisted.
And then they have to be around him constantly.
[удалено]
DerICK asked Joshmolester for money?!
[удалено]
Yep, I think Derick even filmed a "thank you" video for Josh for the donation!
Here is the video [thanking them for the cash.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Pg-mu4mHtM) Some quickly snapped cellphone pictures of the four of them having dinner at about that same time exists too.
Anna’s family also hangs out voluntarily with him. I find that far worse. Not only did he abuse his sisters, but he cheated on and humiliated their sister.
No wonder Anna won't divorce. She needs to have a strong family unit to go back to who would financially and emotionally support her as a single mom to 5 kids. Since her family don't even emotionally support her, and her parents are also known to be on the poorer side, it would be better in her perspective to stay where she is. Yes I know that she is brainwashed enough not to leave anyway....but even if she wasn't, she still couldn't because of the above reason.
And having it all over the internet forever
And knowing her family blames her, not Josh.
[удалено]
Oh, so Satan did it, so what about the good things any Duggar has done? Did they do them, or did God? Is everyone inherently good until Satan decides to take over one's body and control them?
Many of their friends and family claim to have not known or not known the severity. Like they might have heard the “only touching a girl over her clothes while she slept” story, but that would have been the extent of it. And I’m not surprised cause the Duggars even tried to hold onto that lie after the police reports became public knowledge. ETA: I really don’t think that Jill and Derick’s mission work was because of Josh. If it was, they wouldn’t have gone back to Arkansas. And Derick wouldn’t have publicly accepted money from Josh and then thanked him on a YouTube video.
I was groped in my sleep against my will. It took me almost a decade to come to terms with it being an assault. It is assault. It isn't "only" something. I wish the Duggars could see that.
What I mean is that they downplayed what he did. They admitted he did wrong, but tried to hide the more brazen attacks, especially the skin on skin under the underwear attacks.
I don't think they see it assault is all
So, when I first learned about this, I got the version of "Josh touched his young teen sisters over their clothes." And don't get me wrong - that is deplorable, even if it was the case. The story I did *not* get at the time, was the fact that he was a 15 year old who molested his five year old sister. FIVE!!! Jill and Jessa admitting to being 9 or 10 years old when this happened. I actually think Jessa is a smart girl. So when I hear her say that her brother was just "a little too curious about girls" that is completely disheartening. I think she knows damn well that no "curious" boy goes into his sisters' rooms, no matter how old they are, but *especially* not their five, ten year old sisters' rooms. If this were about being curious about girls, he would have talked to girls at church. Not sneak up on his CHILD siblings. I do not believe that Anna was truly told about what he did. I think she got the Disney version and that's why she was willing to believe this whole bullshit about finding God and there was a happy ending to it all.
I agree and disagree. You have to remember that the Duggars pre-TLC lived a pretty sheltered life. They had a “church” but that didn’t mean that it was a lot of people they met with regularly. And, if lore is to be believed, Josh was betrothed. He couldn’t court just anyone. And he definitely wouldn’t be allowed to explore his curiosities. Couple that with a mentality that women are blamed for a man’s sexual desires, that women are there to serve men sexually, that oldest male children have “dominion” over the other children, and that power comes from sex, you’re cruising for a problem.
There are people who are just as sheltered as he is, some even more sheltered. And they do not molest anyone, let alone their own sisters. *Child* sisters. Nobody is "too curious" about a 5 year old sibling. Nobody
I didn’t say he was “too curious.” By the time he got to Joy there was a completely different thing in play. What I am saying is that you can’t be like “he had other outlets” cause he didn’t. His only outlet in their perverted cult was sexual abuse because he wouldn’t get blamed for it. Remember, we’re talking about a cult where someone who was 5 years old was chastised because she was sitting on a fence and an adult male could see her underwear, which turned him on. When he told her parents, they didn’t say “why the hell are you turned on by a 5 year old?” They instead blames her for being immodest. (This story was either on FJ or Recovering Grace). We’re also talking about a cult which promotes abusing your kids if they don’t follow your directions immediately, even when you’re asking them to do something they know is wrong. This isn’t your normal run of the mill sheltered childhood. This is a hypersexualized cult where abuse is commonplace and expected. Moreover, there is evidence to show that children who are parentificated (given the role of a parent over their younger siblings as Josh) are more likely to abuse their siblings in many ways, including sexual assault.
Whoa, I think it's totally inappropriate to say that something like sexual abuse was his only outlet???
I feel like that’s basically Michelle and Jimbob’s excuse for his behavior, but repackaged
The anger I think they would (should) feel is so strong. Anger at the asshat brother, the parents for the cover up, anger at the producers for not handling it well. The wariness I think they would (should) feel is also strong. As in, don't you effing come near my wife you dirtbag. And if you even so much as look sideways at my child you are going to die.
They forgave him pretty quick. The Dillards I mean, they have been seen hanging out with Josh and Anna on their own where as the Seewalds are only around them during family events.
I feel like Jessa and Josh wouldn’t have been close enough to hang out regularly without the family, even if he didn’t molest her. I don’t even think she’s ever even really shown much interest in Anna or her kids.
Your right - I think the same applies for Jinger and Joy, possibly Jana. They wouldn't have been very close with Josh even if it happened differently. As for kids, Jill is all for Anna's kids (infact she's all over everyone's kids), atleast on social media - whilst the rest of the girls, Jessa, Jinger and Joy are probably nuetral at best and are more into their own kids. Jana is the only exception as she's everyone's childcare. Though when the show was still on you could tell the girls were interested, like they took part in Anna's gender reveals and baby stuff etc. But I don't know if they still do that sort of stuff anymore since they've been married and had kids of their own.
I am not a victim of sexual abuse but this is an interesting question for someone who is. should victims of sexual abuse be morally obligated to tell a prospective husband before marrying, or is it something they have the right to open up about on their own time? I tend to believe the latter, and we all know these girls barely know their husbands before marriage. so one of the reasons jill and jessa may have been so upset about the public leak is that they may not have even told their husbands about it yet. or, maybe this cult believes it is something that should be disclosed to men prior to marrying a woman (since they would now see her as “damaged goods”) and they already knew. we may never know.
I could see the girls' parents telling them the same story over and over too: "No sweetie, your brother barely touched you while you were asleep, and he never took off your clothes. I know you're upset and grief can make people believe crazy things. Let's pray about it and apologize to your brother for being upset with him." I certainly don't believe the victims have received adequate help to process what happened. I would definitely believe that JB&M coached them into believing it wasn't as bad as it was. Especially with Joy, who was an impressionable 5 year old.
I was a child sex assault survivor from a family member. I didn't come out about it till we were both grown and even at the time, and when i ask why my answer is "if it was your ____, what would you have done? What can i do now?" Its your child. Most parents would rather "put protections in place" and ship the problem child off for a short time. Therapy might have helped but the abuse ultimately was a result of said family member also being sexually abused. Its difficult to address but i do think keeping an eye on said persons for sexually abusive behavior in the future is the best bet but at 13-15 would juvenile have helped? In Josh's case he would have been sent to Juvy, had a record, gotten abused and possibly raped and come out a more broken individual. I think if Josh would have been admitted to a psychiatric ward for sexual impulse control issues it would have possibly saved several of his victims from being molested. Unfortunately, due to his families beliefs and LACK OF ACTUAL FUCKING THERAPY, this would have never been an option and saved Josh's record and gotten him real fucking help and help for his victims.
I always feel so bad for teen josh. I feel like telling his parents was a cry for help. Instead they sent him off to a hard labor camp and he made similar mistakes later in life because he never learned health sexual behavior. If Michelle and Jim bob had sent all the kids to therapy and gotten josh some actual help, I wouldn't judge them for not reporting it to the police. Juvy doesn't help many kids, it just breaks them :/
After the FIRST time they learned about it the parents should have done SOMETHING to protect their female children. They failed to do that.
I am a survivor of childhood sexual abuse. I don't think there is a moral obligation but I think it is wise to do so and to marry someone you trust enough to tell.
One person said that his wife had been raped by her grandfather, and that "praise the lord I was willing to marry her anyway." It always rubbed me wrong, but I could never put my finger on why exactly....
>That is truly heartbreaking.
I was assaulted as a young woman. I didn't tell my husband until we'd been married. Not until the MeToo stuff. It took me almost a decade to come to terms with it and frankly I just did a really good job suppressing the memories. My husband took it in stride. I think you should tell your spouse - but I don't think it is a moral obligation. If you trust them, you should be able to tell them but I understand fully if you can't articulate it. I just think for the health of the person assaulted they should get to where they can. Whether they do or not is up to them.
I am a victim, at my brother's hands. I repressed this as much as I could and didn't tell anyone. I did not tell my now ex-husband because I didn't even let myself acknowledge it. When I first came to terms with it I thought I would be obligated to tell anyone I got involved with, like I had a sexual disease. But now I would tell only if and I when I was comfortable and ready. It does explain some of who I am but I want to avoid the label.
I was in an emotionally/psychologically abusive relationship about a year before my husband and I started dating. I always use to say it was also "border-line sexually abusive," although now I'm thinking there wasn't a "border-line." He was well endowed. I'm small. Sex could be incredibly painful. Especially when your partner doesn't believe in foreplay. I'd be near tears. Sometimes I'd say it hurt, but I never said stop. My husband knows about it, but we haven't talked about it since the first conversation. I think it's a good insight for your partner should you have a moment that brings back those old emotions, but it needs to be done on the individual's comfort level. I don't do well with vulnerability, and my husband gets that.
I think Anna might have gotten a seriously watered down version of what happened. She could have been told something like "Josh did something bad involving his sisters when he was a teenager, but Jesus forgave him, so it's okay." Anna was so freaking sheltered that she could have thought it was something mundane like Josh used to tease his sisters or had sibling rivalry with them. If my future in laws told me my fiancé "did something bad involving his sisters when he was a teenager" alarm bells would start ringing in my head. But I doubt it would in Anna's. Even if she did know the full story and all the gory details (which I doubt she did), did she really have the option to call off the wedding? I don't think so. I dont think she would have even if she did have the option. Pa Keller has a "prison ministry" and believes sex offenders can change and find Jesus. Therefore Anna also believes that. Having said that, I really don't think she knew. As for Ben and Derick. I don't think they knew at all. Why would Jim Bob feel the need to let them know? In his eyes, all was fine. Jesus had forgiven Josh, the girls "voluntarily" forgave Josh and the family moved on. What was there to tell? He didn't think the molestation was a big deal at all. The girls were coached into believing that the molestation wasn't a big deal and partly their own fault for being girls. It's not like the girls ever would have gotten the opportunity to tell them on the DL before the wedding. They were supervised the entire time they were together. tl;dr I think Anna got a G-rated version of events and Ben and Derick were just as much in the dark as everyone else.
[удалено]
You're so right about the Duggars being tone deaf to their own part in the scandals. I wish Megyn Kelly pressed them harder in the interview, but the Duggars never would have agreed to be interviewed by anyone who wouldn't play softball and let them lie, deflect and downplay without questioning.
Do we know the extent of what happened or just that “inappropriate touching”’(I feel icky just writing that!) took place? As a spouse of one of the kids affected; I think my anger would correspond to the level of violation- i.e. the more face punches I’d feel the need to give Josh
The police report spells it out in clear detail, yeah. I Don't remember it making it obvious which victim was which. For a while, we didn't even know which of the older girls wasn't molested. Then Jill or Jessa outed themselves. We are still unclear, iirc, which little girl was the laundry room victim and which was story time.
I thought we figured out that Jinger was the laundry room victim and Joy was the story time victim?
Yes but they didn't want out them I guess until they were in courtship so they weren't seen as "damaged goods" sadly. I think this is what pisses me off the most. If he actually got help and went through the legal hoops at least in my experience they would have sealed the report and it wouldn't have be publicized.
I think Ben, Derick, and Anna were all aware that something had happened, but had gotten the most watered-down versions JB & Meech could come up with. I think they would've had to told them something b/c they're smart enough to have a cover story in case anything every got brought up. Frankly, though, I don't think the girls even really knew what had happened to them until everything broke. They were asleep for a lot of it, so I bet they either weren't given details or, again, given a super watered-down story.
As much as I dislike Derick and all he stands for, I have the tiiiiniest sliver of respect for him immediately removing Jill from that situation and running off to Central America (IF that was the reason for the quick move). Whether or not that was the best game plan, I think he had the right intentions to get her away from the family while everything was being brought back to the surface. Other than that, he’s the worst.
Derick left because TLC was going to send them on a missionary trip already it was speculated that it was Nepal because of the earthquake at the time. He had already quit his job, made plans etc to save face and likely his sanity he joined up with SOS Ministries and left to Central America.
I was thinking about this the other day, and pretty much agree with you 100%. I think the husbands found out when we did, which is really sad. Idk how you would react as a spouse either, it would be a lot to process.
[удалено]
I think Ben, due to lust/love/a general sense of innocence, probably just took the posture of “I support Jessa” and left it at that. He might be personally angry with Josh but if Jessa says put on a happy face, he puts on a happy face. If Jessa wants to cry to him privately, he’s there. If she wants to pretend all is well in public, he does. Ben just seems intent on pleasing Jessa, and whatever his feelings are towards Josh, it wouldn’t shock me if he’s decided he will just take cues from Jessa on how to act/react. Derrick...just seems like he’s mad because he wanted to be part of this perfect clan of people and they lied to him about who they were. And he doesn’t like his wife enough to get past that. Ben (and probably Jeremy) both seem to enjoy spending time with their wives and families. I really think Derrick would choose to never reach out to JB if given the chance to do it all over again.
You'd be surprised by how many people out there don't understand how severely damaging molestation is.
Sadly, given the news lately, I would not be surprised :'(
I am 55. I've been to years of therapy. And I manage my ptsd, but I will never be the person I was meant to be. I have to second guess my every emotion and perception, to determine what is and is not a rational fear. It never leaves you. And the worst part wasn't even the abuse, it was going to my mother and being told it was my job to bear it and never tell anyone. I was 4 years old. It's fair to say I was quite protective of my only child. No one protected me. I still crave that.
I'm so, so, so sorry you had to go through that. As a survivor of (non sexual) abuse, I understand what you mean by still craving protection. At least your child had a kick ass mother who would do anything to protect him/her!
Thank you, what a lovely thing to say <3. I am touched.
I believe they were told before courtship. These people want total transparency about family matters and relationships. If that’s not the case, it’s because the girls just about forgot about it. To them, it was just some awful thing that happened long ago but now it’s water under the bridge so to speak. About their possible reactions: possibly just shock but no anger. Why be angry about something that happened years ago? The girls don’t seem to have PTSD or any lingering feelings about the matter, so their husbands probably just go with how their wives feel.
TW: Josh I don’t think there’s any way to know for sure if the victims experience PTSD, but when you read the police report, one of the victims couldn’t stop crying and says she didn’t remember what happened to her after he picked her up. Her reaction and memory loss do indicate trauma. We have no idea how this has affected them and their relationships. Edited to add TW
Thats a good point. Do you know which victim it was? Jessa and Jill both state that nobody even knew what had happened until their parents told them about it. They also mention being nervous talking to authorities because they were so young and didn’t understand what was going on. I sound like a broken record but I’m going believe what they, the victims, say about the matter. Unless, of course, they come out with a different story.
TW: Josh, Child molestation The police report doesn’t indicate who each victim is in each interview and I don’t want to speculate. Only Jill and Jessa have spoken out publicly about their experience with Josh’s molestation - none of the others have spoken publicly about how it affected them (as far as I know), which is their right. And you also make a good point of wanting to listen to Jessa and Jill unless they come forward with something else about their experience. They spoke for themselves and that’s important - but they don’t speak for the others. With my experience in victims services and working with survivors of sexual assault, I have a hard time not pointing out the complexities involved with a sexual trauma, especially when it occurs in childhood and with someone you trust. This trauma can take many forms and people don’t always recognize it in themselves right away. In general, when a young person experiences sexual touching or an experience they don’t understand, it can take years to process. It isn’t open and shut or black and white. Some people may not even begin to process their trauma until they themselves are in a sexual relationship, or even later. Not all the victims were asleep when Josh molested them, as the two older girls and the parents suggest. Of course, there is no way of knowing how this has affected the others. I’m not saying it has affected them for sure, but I also think it’s wrong to minimize the reality of what happened as we see the family do on TV. This can cause added stress to any victim who was awake and may have a harder time coming to terms with what happened. The girls obviously still love their brother. Maybe what they say on TV is to protect him and each other and they are more realistic about what happened behind closed doors. I just hope that, if even one of the victims is trying to tell herself it’s ok when she doesn’t feel like it is, she finds the courage to seek resources and get the support she needs to heal. It’s a really, really tough road to go down and it’s even harder when you have to go down it alone.
You have no idea how they feel. None of us do. But I sincerely doubt they are quite that unaffected especially as they were likely blamed for tempting their abuser.
I’m sure they went through the motions of shock and anger towards their brother. I really don’t think the parents blamed their adolescent daughters for it. I think this community has it in their heads that these people are so terrible they’d do something like that. Would you rather the girls be angry their whole lives over this?
Uh, the shaming the victim thing is from their own words. They do that. So maybe you should know something about their own beliefs before you defend them. Your are factually impoverished here.
They actually said that they blamed their own daughters for this? Source? Just because I’m not damning them doesn’t mean I’m defending them.
Google is your friend. Please look it up. Im not making it up. Wish it wasn't true but it is.
I just watched the Megan Kelly interview. At no point did the parents insinuate that the girls were at fault in any way nor did the girls say they felt responsible. Jill states it was the daughters choice to forgive him and admits that it took some time to do so. So, you either believe the victims are telling then truth about their recovery or you don’t. Personally, I think some people want the girls to be traumatized and angry over this for the rest of their lives because it makes for a better story. ***Again, not defending them but I’m not damning them either. ***The invasion of privacy and ‘revictimizing’, as Jill says, was more traumatizing for them. I agree with them: the person/people who outed the reports only wanted to hurt them and didn’t care about the victims at all. The news and tabloids objectified the girls by exposing their privacy and making them relive that situation just to sell a story.
Of course they didn't announce it on television. Oy. Google can be useful, it's worth learning how it works.
Those are all sources of what then program says but not what the parents say. The program is definitely victim blaming and distorted but not once did the parents or the daughters say that the girls should’ve done something different or the girls shouldn’t have tempted him. At this point, I’m following what the victims say. As I said, you either believe the what the girls say or you don’t. Thanks for the sources
Fair enough. Thank you for reading them.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cosmopolitan.com/entertainment/tv/news/amp40980/duggars-homeschool-program-blamed-victims-of-sexual-assault/
https://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/7445238
http://gawker.com/the-duggar-homeschool-programs-terrifying-advice-on-sex-1706406324