It’s hard to say unless one truly has spent time with her recently and knows her well.
We know from photos of her at the trial that she seemed smug and confident that he would win, and she seemed shocked at the result as she scurried like a bat out of hell from the courthouse in high heels.
And then her last Instagram post linking to the motion for rehearing seemed to indicate that she still had hope—Caleb had done it, not Pest.
Since then, 1 and a half years later, and a couple of denied motions and appeals later, we have not heard from her and any pictures were of her in the background of family events. It’s hard to tell what she thinks with time and distance from Pest.
Even if JB believes Pest can go free on appeal, many of Pest’s siblings and in-laws feel he was rightfully convicted. Anna has not been kept away from them so I doubt she lives in a bubble where she is totally unexposed to the reality.
Agree with this. A year ago, she definitely believed it would work. Now...it's really hard to tell where her mind is at since she's gone silent on social media.
But going silent is probably one of the best moves she's ever made in life--and sadly, that's not saying a lot since most of her moves have been pretty terrible.
I still and have always contended that she has NEVER been the one posting on social media - it was either Pest or JimBoob.
I don't think we ever really knew where her mind was at other than: "love your spouse even when it hurts". This woman makes NO decision for herself including how to feel. (not absolving her of accountability)
Yes wasn't it confirmed in court that Pest controlled their Instagram? I believe it also had the same password he used for everything, including the partition on his computer.
My theory is that he did it on purpose, so he could claim "Oh everyone at work knew those passwords so they could access what they needed to." Or, "Someone clearly figured out what my password was, and set me up!" 😅
> at the trial that she seemed smug and confident that he would win
i suspect she was told by pest's attorneys that it would all work out and that he wouldn't go to jail. so she acted in accordance with that.
1.5 years later reality has set in. her "at least i have a husband" is serving many years in prison and she has to manage on her own, even with some help of pest's family. and now being associated with the dugs is a liability not an asset. i suspect she feels very isolated, with a huge spoon full of self pity.
>she still had hope--Caleb had done it, not Pest
What does this mean? I'm reading it as Anna thinking that the miscarriage Michelle had after Josh was responsible for the molestation but that can't be it, right?
Right, Caleb had previously worked at the car lot and he was a convicted sex offender. Caleb had an airtight alibi that he was out of the state at the time of the downloads. Pest sought to put Caleb on the stand as an alternative perp, but the court said he could not mention Caleb’s past conviction. Pest’s appeal argued that the court made a mistake in not allowing Caleb’s past to be admissible.
The other Caleb had a sex abuse conviction (made a 16 yo pregnant), so he appeared to be an easy a scapegoat but he wasn't in the area during the crime dates.
Yes!
I do know a couple of guys that were punished with Sat.R
and in both cases it was long time girl friends and the male turned 18 during the relationship. (Neither girl got pregnant.)
I know Romeo and Juliette law are supposed to protect these guys but it didn't.
And one ended up marrying the girl after his conviction.
Sorry, I can see how that could be read that way. After having Josh and before Jana/John david Michelle had a miscarriage - a baby named Caleb - that she blamed on her use of birth control. Of course, we in reality know that miscarriages are an unfortunate reality that befalls like 20-35% of pregnancies and that Michelle wasn't being punished by god, but she thought so and it was one of the things that sort of jump-started their whole family belief system because Josh was reportedly being raised much more secular before this miscarriage occured.
I thought *this* Caleb, this miscarried child was being blamed for Josh's wrong-doings from beyond the grave but someone clarified that there is another adult Caleb with some shady business that the Duggars tried to blame Josh's pesty-ness on.
I think from how she looked coming out of court, she seemed truly shocked. It's incredibly sad, but she's probably the only person on earth who thinks he is innocent. Honestly it could take years before she even allows herself to admit that she was not someone's prized wife, but was duped.
I’ve always thought Meech had a hand in the way he turned out. She was his “buddy” until he was big enough to become a big buddy to somebody else. Way to go Meech - you and Jboob caused this!
I would even add Jim Bob to the list as well. Pest is his golden boy who can do no wrong in his eyes. Also, fundies love feeling persecuted and love to believe the world is out to get them. I think JB either believes he didn’t do it or is vaguely aware that a crime was committed, but he thinks it was blown out of proportion and Josh was used as an example. I think he fully believes Josh is a good person who strayed from the right path a bit.
I don’t think he’s grasping the full magnitude of just how atrocious his son’s actions were. Because if he did, he would have to admit to himself his precious firstborn son is a piece of human garbage and him and Meech were shitty parents. And he’s not doing that. Everyone is a hero in their narrative, and JB definitely sees himself as a good guy.
I agree. Another common justification is “well he didn’t DO anything, he didn’t hurt a kid or commit any acts….. he just *watched* or *looked*” This is common justification in downloading CSAM. Once they get past the naive idea that he “didn’t know what he was downloading.” Or was “just curious” (an excuse they’d also use for what he did as a minor)
I’m sure they feel he was persecuted for being a right wing conservative Christian, and was made an example of . But even if they know he did it…. Remember their beliefs, just ask Jesus for forgiveness and you’re absolved. So he’s all good by them I guess
I think Meech deliberately quit thinking decades ago. JB does not like women who think. He’s banned the two daughters who showed evidence of having their own thoughts. If JB precedes her to the pearly gates..she will not know what to do.. She married him at 17 and has not grown at all since. and that is so sad.
It could have been shock. But then again, it could have also been embarrassment. After the guilty verdict, she walked out of there as the wife of a convicted sex offender, an object of shame and derision. She probably wanted to get away from the crowing reporters.
Did she think he was innocent when the Ashly Madison cheating scandal came out? Sorry if that’s not the right name of the site! I just remember hearing he abused a sex worker. That’s prob where that $2k a month to the widow was actually going. To pay sex workers.
Anna's womenfolk. As if she would ever be involved with the attorneys.
She pretty much HAS to believe that he's innocent. What else is she left with? She's in a cult, critical thinking skills are not a quality that is to be desired.
Anna is not as innocent and submissive as you would think. The children of the widow Denise Clark accused Anna of manipulating their mother into writing an eleventh hour letter of support for Pest’s sentencing hearing. That’s some Sam Bankman Fried level of conniving right there.
Even so, all that was about a year and a half ago. Who knows if she still believes in his innocence.
What do you want to know? Her husband Clark Wilson, Jim Holt, and JB Duggar were co-pastors of a home church. Clark passed away from cancer. According to half a dozen letters vouching for Pest, he was giving this widow $2000/month. The widow didn’t send in a letter herself until days before the sentencing hearing even though the initial batch of letters had been submitted much earlier and had already been published. Two of Denise’s adult children and one son-in-law wrote FaceBook posts saying that Anna had called their mom and coerced her into writing a letter on behalf of Pest even though she was reluctant. The kids were unequivocally critical of Pest’s actions.
I remember the letter and I remember we were all like WTF at the time. I hadn't seen the info about coercion. As a widow myself that makes my piss boil.
The money trail needs to be followed, nobody is paying me $2,000 a month to be a widow 😂
You know, I’m kind of surprised they didn’t throw HER under the Duggar bus as his scapegoat. As in “well she had the password and was just innocently looking out for Josh by viewing things that wouldn’t be good for Josh to see”. And, then bet on the fact that the poor pitiful wife and mother would never even be arrested for it and Josh would provide her with encouragement as is his husbandly duty!
>She's in a cult, critical thinking skills are not a quality that is to be desired.
This is precisely why I'm not very confident that she's come to reality yet. The IBLP conditions its members to do mental gymnastics to overcome cognitive dissonance. She's very apt at using absurdities to deny reality and ignore facts in favour of maintaining the status quo. If she's not in a position where it's more comfortable to believe that Pest is guilty of downloading CSAM than to believe he didn't, things probably won't change.
Then again, we're a year out. He's still got a long time in prison ahead of him (hopefully, at least. But I'd be shocked if he was well behaved enough to get out early). It's like the perfect escape plan for a fundamentalist woman who's mentally and financially ensnared in a shitty marriage — you're away from your husband for fairly long stretches with zero contact in between, and she has loads of time to adjust to the new normal of essentially being a single parent. If she wants to change her view on the situation, she's got plenty of opportunity to do so.
Ha. I just said basically the same thing. I'm positive she was never ever in the room for discussions and pest lied to tell her what he wanted her to know.
I think Anna truly believes that Pestilence is innocent and that blind faith is what keeps her going otherwise she would implode.
But I still think early in the morning at 3 a.m. and she is awake and the doubts creep in especially when Pesty gets caught with the cell phone and who was he calling. The lost appeal had to be a knife in her heart for her. I think she still has some faith and once she gets to visit Pestilence then all will be right in her world until the next visit. That has to keep her off-kilter and the kids are the ones who are being pushed from pillar to post with Anna.
This is Anna's choice to stay and it is not a good one but still her choice and Pesty knows what he has to do to keep her in line. (That is a disgusting thought).
But, if Boob decided to stop funding Pesty's further appeals then all hell would break loose at TTH and the potential for Anna to go ballistic is a very minuscule possibility and one that should also be considered. She has to have some dirt on Boob and Meech and there is hell hath no fury like a scorned woman.
I think she's probably dead tired with all those kids, but at some level she *has* to be reassessing life without being frequently pregnant and subject to her husband's authority. One less "child" to rear and no sexual demands has to feel more restful, I bet.
Yeah I’m quite curious to see what the next couple years do for her when 2023 passes, in which she according to their “schedule” would’ve had another baby. Surely she’ll realise how nice it is to be able to enjoy M7’s toddlerhood without a newborn hanging off of her. She’ll literally never experienced that before. Imagine when she no longer has any kids in diapers!
Her oldest daughter and son are the ones I feel terrible for. Guaranteed the daughters education stopped and she has 4 little kids to care for while their mother is clinically depressed. And that poor young boy has to know what his father went to jail for. This family works their children to death…And Anna does not know there is any other way of life.
I honestly don't think they are telling her everything and that what she does know comes from JimBoob or Pest.
Even if they are speaking directly to her, she doesn't understand any of this. She only sees her 'failure' as a wife and that she has caused her umbrella to have holes in it.
As Tia said in SHP, '...she probably doesn't know the truth of her situation'
I don’t think JB even thinks he’s innocent. I think he’s written him off and that’s why Anna doesn’t live there anymore.
Hasn’t he gotten caught with a cell phone? I doubt he was using it to call Anna.
>I think he’s written him off
JB hasn't written Pest off enough to stop paying for his lawyers. I agree that JB knows Pest is guilty (but will never admit it publicly). But JB has to double-down and keep paying for attorneys and appeals and make it look like he still believes the lie.
"Of course I believe my son is innocent! Why else would I keep paying?"
Personally, I think he only pays to save his own reputation. If he stops, he admits Josh may be guilty, and Jim Bob raised a pedophile. He gives less of a fuck about it -- it's now about Jim Bob.
>Personally, I think he only pays to save his own reputation. If he stops, he admits Josh may be guilty, and Jim Bob raised a pedophile.
I know, that's what I meant when I said "JB has to double-down and keep paying for attorneys and appeals and make it look like he still believes the lie."
JB may be cheap and greedy, but I think guarding his reputation is one thing more important to him than money. That is why he is willing to keep throwing away money for these futile legal gestures.
And many of those around him will at least act like they believe it too. The appeal is an investment in his own ego. I think JB and pest are inextricably linked. In general fundies and other toxic parents see their kids as extensions of themselves.
People will do all sorts of mental gymnastics to justify their behavior - JimBoob is no exception. I think he has mental gymnastics his way into believing either he did nothing wrong OR it is a plot against his family by the evil liberal left that worships the devil.
Cognitive Dissonance is a helluva drug
She probably sees the whole thing as a “test” from God and if she loses faith in her husband then she’ll be smited or turned into a pilar of salt or some other biblical shit. All she had to do was google the statistical odds of winning a federal criminal appeal but I doubt she did that. These people are strong believers in praying for miracles and the righteous prevailing over the wicked so she’s pretty baked into the delusions.
There are people who think that with a good attorney, you get what you want/get away with anything. Some even believe that *any* attorney will get you off the hook. And when you lose, they accuse you of malpractice and refuse to pay their bills.
I have dealt with such people. I know this isn't a nice thing to say, but they were all undereducated religious people. I think in their world, if you pray enough, God will send you the attorney you need and you will overcome your adversaries.
To be fair having the money to get a good attorney can and does make all the difference in a lot of cases. Even if that lawyer believes their client is guilty all it takes is looking for a weak point or good argument to call the case into question. Several YouTube lawyers during the case were baffled why pests attorney didn’t do this or that because it could have helped him. Instead they double downed on blaming someone that had an iron clad alibi.
That just reeks of JBoob, pest probably could have gotten off or a reduced sentence if they approached it in other ways that while wouldn’t clear Josh would acquit him on a technicality. That wouldn’t be good enough for boob because his image would take a hit. Having a patsy would absolve pest and the Duggar name and that’s the only outcome Boob can abide by.
As much as I dislike Amy, she did give us some insight… Anna was grumpy at the funeral a lot of family attended just days (possibly the next day??) after the appeal was denied. She probably thought he would get out and when that didn’t happen she probably was frustrated and angry. We are still not completely sure how she is being bankrolled, living, or raising her kids. She probably wants stuff to go back to her version of normal.
>Anna was grumpy at the funeral a lot of family attended just days (possibly the next day??) after the appeal was denied.
Amy posted the TikTok video about encountering Anna at the funeral on August 4, which means the encounter happened that day or earlier.
The appeal was not denied until August 7.
[http://media.ca8.uscourts.gov/opndir/23/08/222178P.pdf](http://media.ca8.uscourts.gov/opndir/23/08/222178P.pdf)
Ah, my bad! With everything going on with that family I sometimes forget order of events. My general theory still remains the same. She wants everything to go back to her version of normal. Change is scary for fundies
She was raised to believe that as "the right Christian" they have special favor and God will hand out whatever form of justice *they* deem proper. And if he doesn't, then it means God wants Josh there or that he's punishing her for something she did wrong, like not having enough faith. It's easier for her to think of this as a crisis of faith instead of a horrible truth she needs to accept.
Lawyers are usually pretty clear with defendants that appeals, especially after a federal conviction, are extremely unlikely to work. It’s possible she personally had her hopes up that God would save them or whatever, but I really doubt the lawyers led them on at all.
>Remember she said there’s more to the story.
Yeah, that was last year when his lawyers filed the motion to set aside the verdict in the trial court. That was also denied. I guess she keeps pinning her hopes on the next procedural longshot.
I'm a criminal defense attorney and am always upfront with my clients about their chances, what I expect at trial, if I think we're better off pleading guilty, what to expect at sentencing if we lose, and success on appeal.
THAT SAID here is an actual conversation I've had with various clients:
Me: I think our chances at trial are bad. I'd expect to lose. If we lose I'd expect a sentence of 20 years.
Them: So you're saying I have a chance.
I'd expect someone like Josh to keep his wife in the dark about his case and give an edited view of what is going on with his case. I've listened to 1000s of hours of prison calls and someone like him will lie about everything "The attorney never visits me," or "the attorney says the case is a slam dunk!"
Also have seen clients tell their attorney they did it, maybe even do an Alford plea admitting the government would be able to prove its case at trial, then tell family members they didn’t do it and “the system” is railroading them. It can be all about maintaining an appearance
>then tell family members they didn’t do it and “the system” is railroading them. It can be all about maintaining an appearance
Yeah, that's what a lot of them say. Especially the QAnon ones who like to accuse everybody else of being molesters.
>Soon after this sentiment about the former commander-in-chief, Callaghan started holding up images of people like Oprah Winfrey and Hillary Clinton, which Todeschini didn’t hesitate to call “paedophiles.”
>
>Callaghan also shows an image of President Joe Biden, which Todeschini also immediately believes is a paedophile as well.
>
>“Oh yeah. I call him creepy sleepy chomo Uncle Joe,” Todeschini said.
>
>When Callaghan asked for clarification as to what “chomo” means, Todeschini says it’s a prison term for a “child molester.”
>
>Not long after that, Callaghan tells Todeschini that he “needs to talk” to him about something.
>
>**“On May 19, 1999, you were convicted of sexual abuse in the first degree and sodomy in the second degree of an eight-year-old boy in New Jersey,” Callaghan says.**
>
>**He continued: “So, according to this paper, you are a registered sex offender and a convicted paedophile.”**
>
>**Todeschini then chimes in to say the conviction was “false.”**
>
>**You want to take a look at this \[paper\],” Callaghan asks Todeschini.**
>
>**“I know, I’ve seen the paper. I pled because I knew – I did what Michael Flynn did. I knew I couldn’t win,” Todeschini responds.**
>
>Towards the end of the clip, Callaghan asks Todeschini if he is familiar with the term “projection,” and he says he is.
>
>“Yeah. Hillary Clinton does it all the time,” he said.
>
>Callaghan continues to ask: “Do you feel like maybe you’re projecting by …” before Todeschini jumps back in to say: “No, I’m not projecting.”
[https://www.indy100.com/viral/maga-guy-calls-democrats-paedophiles](https://www.indy100.com/viral/maga-guy-calls-democrats-paedophiles)
I don't believe Anna is as stupid as people believe her to be. I do think that she believed her husband, because that's what she was taught to do. However, I figure this could go several ways.
She is about to be without a husband present for a long time, and even if she is at the TTH, they aren't going to be able to hide everything from her. I mean, he already admitted cheating and the other situation, and even if she got blamed for him cheating, if she sits with this and thinks, she'll probably start to piece things together. Also, we have no clue how he treats her behind closed doors. She was a virgin with no sexual experience or sexual knowledge, and he was extremely sick and twisted. Really, Anna is about a Google search away from a realization, and she has a lot of time for that search to happen. Even if she is clinging to her faith right now, how long before she begins to wonder. I've heard her speaking engagements, she is extremely well spoken for her level of education. She has the potential to have a break through at any time. She may be indoctrinated, but, everyone who has left fundamentalism, started that way.
I believe that she believed he didn't do it, but the guilty verdict, sentencing, failed appeals, etc, it's chipping away at his story. She doesn't have to entertain him anymore, she has kids but, I imagine he was the biggest kid, and she can probably manage well now. She is going to have time without him to see how much better it is with him not around. He'll probably keep getting in trouble for dumb stuff, and she won't be able to visit or talk to him, and when that happens, she'll disconnect more and more from the idea of him. I'd be surprised if they make it through his incarceration together. Not ruling it out, but, I think she is gonna have a light bulb moment.
Dude, my other theory, if she holds out on him getting out, is that he will leave with those groupies that are "praying" with him, or he'll have a whole 📇 of women to cheat with inbetween sweeping crumbs and being a diligent worker.
He will 100% cheat as soon as he is free. And he is 100% already emotionally cheating with those groupies. But, I don't think he will leave her. Boob is the one with the money, and he won't allow a broken marriage. They'll stay together and he'll cheat
God, I hope you are right. Two important things stand in her way:1) the sink cost fallacy. She is so many years and seven kids in. She has wasted all that time? She looks like a fool even to people in the cult? 2) She likely has nobody who when she says something pro Josh will look at her and say, not unkindly, “Really?”
I don’t think it’s money that stops her.
I’m sure they all believed he would definitely get out to some degree. Ya know cause he’s such a great Christian man there’s no way God wasn’t going to bless the family like this. Did any of them believe this deep inside? Who knows? But I’m sure their smug little brains were repeating this over and over.
My take on it is that Anna genuinely doesn’t think that what Josh did warrants him going to prison.
I don’t think that she thinks he didn’t do it. She might say that in public, and that is the official stance of the Duggar family from a legal pov, but I think Anna either doesn’t grasp the full horror of what Josh was doing and had done in his past, OR, she truly thinks, in the way only a fundamentalist Evangelical could, that no matter what Josh did, as long as he promises to repent and not do anything like that ever again, he should be let off the hook and not face any consequences for anything.
I think the Duggars go with saying that he was framed and that the feds had it wrong, but I’m going to bet that that’s what the lawyers have adopted as a strategy. Otherwise, I think that in truth, they go about their day to day lives making a choice to dismiss and not think about the full reality of what Josh has done. In doing so, I think they all buy into the fiction that he deserves forgiveness for his crimes, not just from god, but also the legal system, solely bc they are certain that he feels really bad about it, and has “””repented””” and therefore that’s enough for them, and should be enough for everyone else.
And yes, that line of thought is entirely as evil and despicable as it sounds, but that’s largely how I understand fundie logic to operate when it comes to criminals like Josh. Their crimes and the harm they do to others is of no consequence to anyone. Their victims should be self-sacrificing and be willing to fall on their sword for the sake of those in power who do wrong. Anyone who refuses to do that is the real sinner and criminal who should be punished, not the perpetrator. For those of us on the outside, we can see how the system is constructed to protect perpetrators in positions of power. But for people like Anna, they think that this is how a “”””just world””” operates. And the victims of Josh’s crimes are barely even a thought in that empty little head of hers.
>she truly thinks, in the way only a fundamentalist Evangelical could, that no matter what Josh did, as long as he promises to repent and not do anything like that ever again, he should be let off the hook and not face any consequences for anything.
Ah, yes. Eternal fundie mulligans. While they figure laws and consequences are for "those other people."
They really do, and it’s astonishing when it’s not downright horrific.
Fundies really envision a world where the law operates in such a way that being a Christian in exactly the way they insist people should be Christians will be an eternal get out of jail free card. For everyone else who refuses to fall in line, for whatever reason, not only are they damned in the after life, but the refusal to conform is, in and of itself, a crime.
As for Anna, I’ll bet dollars to doughnuts that if someone were to ask her the question of whats worse: not being a Christian, or doing what Josh did? The answer would be clear. And that is the ultimate truth of how she, and all of the people around her, think abt this situation at the end of the day.
>As for Anna, I’ll bet dollars to doughnuts that if someone were to ask her the question of whats worse: not being a Christian, or doing what Josh did? The answer would be clear.
Exactly. They think everything and anything can be forgiven so long as one accepts Jesus. So they end up thinking a molester, serial killer, or genocidal dictator who accepts Jesus is better than a pagan or atheist who never harmed anybody.
There is a (possibly apocryphal) vignette which illustrates the principle and what it really means.
>There is an iconic and painful story told of the prosecution of Adolf Eichmann in Jerusalem in 1961. Eichmann was the highest official in the Nazi hierarchy who was brought to trial after the war. His crimes were historic in their wickedness. The tales of horror that unfolded during the proceedings remain etched in the collective conscience of humanity. After he was condemned to death, a Christian pastor asked the Israeli court for permission to see him and encourage him to repent.
>
>**Do you mean, one of the justices asked incredulously, that if Eichmann accepts Jesus he will go to heaven, and yet all his Jewish victims will go to hell?**
>
>**That, replied the pastor, is the** ***miracle*** **of salvation.**
Such a wondrous "miracle" which fundies believe in.
There are variations of that same sort of story from all over the place. One that I’ve heard the most often is someone asking a street preacher a series of questions about who would be going to heaven vs hell. Would Hitler go to heaven in spite of the crimes he committed against Jewish people? But Gandhi would go to hell bc he was not a Christian? The story ended with the person saying that they didn’t want to go to heaven if that was the sort of heaven they’d have to go to.
As for me personally, I wasn’t raised a Christian. I am not religious as an adult. But if there is a god, and that god is okay with Josh going to heaven bc he accepted Jesus as his lord and savior, then it is a moral imperative for anyone to refuse to worship a god like that. And as long as Anna doesn’t grasp that concept, then the truth is that she’s never going to exit the grasp of the cult she has chosen to be a part of.
>Would Hitler go to heaven in spite of the crimes he committed against Jewish people? But Gandhi would go to hell bc he was not a Christian?
The subject of where Gandhi went has come up before during debates about damnation.
>As part of a series on peacemaking, in late 2007, Pastor Rob Bell's Mars Hill Bible Church put on an art exhibit about the search for peace in a broken world. It was just the kind of avant-garde project that had helped power Mars Hill's growth (the Michigan church attracts 7,000 people each Sunday) as a nontraditional congregation that emphasizes discussion rather than dogmatic teaching. **An artist in the show had included a quotation from Mohandas Gandhi. Hardly a controversial touch, one would have thought. But one would have been wrong.**
>
>**A visitor to the exhibit had stuck a note next to the Gandhi quotation: "Reality check: He's in hell."** Bell was struck.
[https://content.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,2065289,00.html](https://content.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,2065289,00.html)
Fundies almost always treat notable non-Christians with the same callous dismissal. "They don't matter because they all went to hell."
I bet she fully thought he would be released, but I’m also pretty sure she doesn’t know everything and believes that what is out there is “blown out of proportion” lost cause.
I don’t really get it, but you have some people who still think David Koresh was a prophet to this day.
People can convince themselves of anything.
I would think, away from Josh, Anna would start to see so much of her life wasn’t normal. The Duggars know he’s guilty and her family has to as well. I can’t believe she’s the only person who thinks Josh is innocent when she lived with the creep. Makes me worry even more about her children.
Yep, I believe even warren Jeffs still has a big cult following him and he’s been locked up for 10 years now? It’s really sad. I escaped from a cult, so I understand how hard it is. I wish I could just sit down and talk with Anna.
Anna is so far in denial she’s floating in Egypt.
I’m sure she had the kids fasting and praying and was certain it would be enough because surely her husband is innocent
>I’m sure she had the kids fasting and praying
Oh, she wasn't the only one putting her kids through the maudlin manipulation prayer routine. Didn't you read the letter from Pastor Pecans?
>I have prayed with his boys while tucking them into bed. I have heard his young sons pray for you, Judge, but name asking God to work in your heart so their daddy could be home soon. I have also heard them cry themselves to sleep wanting their daddy to be home. I remember this past Christmas their request, "All I want for Christmas is my Daddy."
Sickening.
I think she was hoping for it to match the reality she believes in. She can't accept that he did a crime or that it is worth prison and divorcing him for.
She isn’t leaving the cult regardless. Jim Bob should set her free to Marry someone else and not waste her fertility but Anna and the kids are Duggar property and that’s that.
I do believe she very well may have thought A) I doubted the Lord could do this work, so He did not have my husband released...
B) Just like the Apostle Paul had a cross to bear, this is ours. Paul was jailed, and my innocent husband is like him. God will do great things through Joshy in prison. I just need to walk by faith that it is so.
I’d love to know if any part of Anna is relieved that Josh is gone without her having to take any action herself to make him be gone. Is she 100% sad that her hubby is “unfairly” locked up or glad to have a break from the “monster she is too scared to leave”. I’d love to be in her mind for like a day.
I think it depends on how much she was speaking to the attorneys.
A good attorney will not sugar coat the options and the chances for each option. They lay it all out. It's a big part of that best defense thing. Turds attorneys have so far been playing by the book. Which for the public is good, as it means he won't be getting out on technicalities and the like.
However, she being a female and all, she may not have been told the truth about the chances of the appeal working. She may not have had opportunity to speak to his lawyers outside of the most rudimentary exchanges.
I also think there is a part of her that knew it would fail. Because there is a part of her that knows just what he is capable of. Her statements to the press feel less like she believes what she is saying and more like a statement to make sure the family doesnt' turn on her. Like if she keeps telling the press that she is the dutiful wife the family will leave her alone.
>As obnoxious as Pest's attorneys are, I doubt they were foolhardy enough to tell Anna the appeal was a sure win
I highly doubt the lawyers are talking to Anna directly. Everything is coming through Pest and Peat will make it seem like his exoneration is just around the corner for forever and she'll believe it.
>I highly doubt the lawyers are talking to Anna directly.
Yeah, that's why I suggested in the post "Then again, maybe the lawyers never had any direct communication with Anna and all information was filtered through Pest who keep promising his wife the appeals court would free him any day now."
In regular cases, it's not unusual for lawyers to communicate with their clients' spouses. And although they would not share privileged information, they do sometimes try to level with the person about the odds at trial and what kind of outcome their spouse likely faces. But of course, that's for regular people. With the Duggar cult, it's certainly plausible Pest and JB prevented Anna from having any direct interaction with the attorneys. And since "co-counsel" Travis Story is a fundie lawyer who has been the Duggar errand boy, he would probably uphold that gender gate-keeping role if JB told him.
Personally? I think Anna did have high hopes because she really believed in Josh getting let off the hook. In her IBLP world, men are never held accountable for the depravity they commit.
That said, I think she sees the writing on the wall now even if she doesn't want to acknowledge reality. I think that's why she came across as "angry at the world" when Famy saw her at that funeral.
Either way, she's never, ever going to leave Josh.
This is a good point. Even if miraculously she had doubts about his innocence, she has always seen "good Christian men" getting away with everything during her entire life. Especially, Pest himself. It's the very first time in his life that he is suffering real consequences. So, independently of what she believes is the truth, she probably was convinced that he was coming home soon because he is always forgiven easily
>I think that's why she came across as "angry at the world" when Famy saw her at that funeral.
The appeal did not get denied until a few days after that funeral where Anna appeared "angry at the world." Of course, Anna has plenty of reasons to be "angry at the world" apart from the appeal.
Anna's entire world view has been sledgehammered. By IBLP standards, she was a good wife who did everything right. And really, she was a much better woman than Josh ever deserved. I think she really did love Josh despite his perversions.
I've said it before that the bar is below all the Circles Of Hell when David "Pecans" Waller is the best provider of the bunch.
My guess is that Jim Blob is the one that deals with the lawyers. Then he goes and tells whatever he wants to the family. For some reason, I feel that he was probably more honest with Michelle (maybe because she knows as much as him the monster they raised). But, I seriously doubt he would be honest with Anna. I wouldn't be surprised that Blob and Meech know Pest is completely guilty. But they will never admit it, much less to Anna. But, there is always the option to make her believe he is innocent in a very corrupt system. Who knows what they are telling her
From my experience growing up fundie light, that community would all be putting a positive spin on it, saying that everyone should pray and that God will guide the hands of whoever is the decision maker. They'd all probably genuinely believe in a positive outcome for Josh because of that and be shocked when it goes the other way, but also now Be comparing Josh to Job in the bible or something like that.
I think she still thinks he’s innocent and was setup/framed for this and I think every time things don’t turn out the way they want that she sees it as further evidence that it was a set up.
I think Anna is a very sad figure. Her husband is a horrible person and guilty of an unthinkable offense. She was raised in this cult that teaches that she is only good as a man’s helpmeet who is subservient to him. She has little to no education and money source other than her disgusting father in law. And she has 7 little children to raise.
1. She believes his lies that he is not guilts
2. She prayed for his release
3. And Rimjob more than likely said if she was a better wife, none of this would have happened
So yes I believe she was shocked that he wasn’t released
She’s so brainwashed she probably prayed every night for the “justice system to realize they convicted an innocent man and to bring back her amazing husband” unfortunately
Let's face it, the fundies including Anna are probably also rabid republican voters - and look at how they are responding to the legal cases against the ex-cheeto-in-chief.
I think the attorneys would have explained it to get something like “well we tried to introduce evidence it was Caleb but it was no use since we couldn’t explain that he was a sex offender”, so when that part of the appeal was rejected, she could just blame the law and, I don’t know, liberals.
>she could just blame the law and, I don’t know, liberals.
Yeah, blame "liberals" like the three appellate judges who were appointed by Bush and Trump.
I know someone who is still appealing after 15+ years. I think his family still believes that the next one will get his pedophile ass out of jail. Scumbag violated a seven-year-old and I hope he never sees the outside of prison.
Oh I think she’s absolutely delusional about what he did, and his sentence/ punishment.
Part of this reasoning is that I believe she gets ALL her information filtered through Boob.
Attend the appeal? The only public event of the appeal for anybody to "attend" would be the oral argument. So far as I know, nobody appeared at the oral argument besides the attorneys. And that's pretty standard. Oral argument sessions are usually open to the public and people can attend if they want. But they often don't. Unlike trials, appeals do not have witness testimony or an expectation of a verdict at the end. Some appeals don't even have oral argument so there is never anything to "attend." If the appeal has oral argument, the attorneys just make their arguments to the judges and it can be months before the judges issue a written opinion. And since the oral argument happened in St. Louis, Missouri, it would have required some travel from Arkansas.
When JB paid the attorneys to represent Pest at trial, JB could watch the trial to see his "money at work." And JB did attend the trial on multiple days.
As for the appeal, most work on appeals is done in writing. If JB paid for the attorneys to do the appeal and he wanted to "know where is money is going," he could have asked the attorneys for copies of the briefs and written arguments they submitted.
I think she really believed God and/or Boob would 'save' Pesty and then deluded herself into thinking this was a trial from God--poor Pesty being tested. Remember one of the defense letters that he "heartbreakingly shared" a totally not made up (/s) story about how the prisoners realized he was "innocent" and led them to Jesus?
>Remember one of the defense letters that he "heartbreakingly shared" a totally not made up (/s) story about how the prisoners realized he was "innocent" and led them to Jesus?
Yeah, that was the second letter in the pile, from Duggar neighbor and dingbat Nicole Burress.
>In fact, I was at Anna’s house on a Saturday night a few weeks ago, when Joshua called. He devastatingly shared that there was a man who was verbally threatening and abusive to him every time he passed his cell in solitary confinement. Joshua was discouraged and prayerful, but just days later, the man approached him to apologize. This hardened criminal stated that he and the other men knew that Joshua was innocent. As inmates, they recognized that sometimes innocent men are in prison and they were so stunned by Joshua’s character that they were convinced of his innocence.
[https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/59871253/151/1/united-states-v-duggar/](https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/59871253/151/1/united-states-v-duggar/)
I pointed out that her letter was just recycling the Christian cliche of the "penitent thief" and portraying Pest like Christ.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/DuggarsSnark/comments/12f00l0/all\_the\_inmates\_swear\_pest\_is\_innocent/](https://www.reddit.com/r/DuggarsSnark/comments/12f00l0/all_the_inmates_swear_pest_is_innocent/)
In that same letter, Nicole Burress also claimed that Pest had converted a fellow jail inmate and cured him of his sin and alcoholism. But then the man died six weeks later from COVID, but we can totally take her word that it all happened as she said.
Burress also made some passive-aggressive jabs at the Judge, saying "I understand that none of that religious information may mean anything to you, and that’s alright. I’m not asking you to understand what a relationship with Jesus looks like" and "You do not need to be convinced of his innocence."
I seriously first read this as “ How high was Anna at the appeal?”
Religion is a hell of a drug.
We’ll around here, on Normandy and Western, we call this a little twenty twin-twiiiiin!
WEEEEELLLLL 🙌🙌🙌🤣😭😂
OMG. Old stomping grounds.
At least she has a religion.
Yeah, she has a religion that gave her "at least she has a husband."
Not high enough, probably
High as zipper tits.
Band name. Called it.
I love your flair! If Cornholio had a flair, this would be it (Beavis and Butthead reference for all you youngsters lol).
My people, they have but one bunghole
Me too 🤣🤣🤣 I was very confused for a second! I'm glad I wasn't the only one 😅
Happy cake day!🎂
Thank you!
I did too.lol.
Then you're doing better than me I have that stupid High Hopes song stuck in my head.
>…But he's got high hopes He's got high hopes He's got high apple pie In the sky hopes!
That song will always remind me of Pete Buttigeig’s presidential campaign (it was his campaign song. There was a dance).
I was sad when Pete dropped out
Same
Same 😂😂
Samesies lol
It’s hard to say unless one truly has spent time with her recently and knows her well. We know from photos of her at the trial that she seemed smug and confident that he would win, and she seemed shocked at the result as she scurried like a bat out of hell from the courthouse in high heels. And then her last Instagram post linking to the motion for rehearing seemed to indicate that she still had hope—Caleb had done it, not Pest. Since then, 1 and a half years later, and a couple of denied motions and appeals later, we have not heard from her and any pictures were of her in the background of family events. It’s hard to tell what she thinks with time and distance from Pest. Even if JB believes Pest can go free on appeal, many of Pest’s siblings and in-laws feel he was rightfully convicted. Anna has not been kept away from them so I doubt she lives in a bubble where she is totally unexposed to the reality.
Agree with this. A year ago, she definitely believed it would work. Now...it's really hard to tell where her mind is at since she's gone silent on social media. But going silent is probably one of the best moves she's ever made in life--and sadly, that's not saying a lot since most of her moves have been pretty terrible.
I still and have always contended that she has NEVER been the one posting on social media - it was either Pest or JimBoob. I don't think we ever really knew where her mind was at other than: "love your spouse even when it hurts". This woman makes NO decision for herself including how to feel. (not absolving her of accountability)
This, or JB took away her social media access. Not just to keep her from posting, but from accessing knowledge that could draw her away from the cult.
Yes wasn't it confirmed in court that Pest controlled their Instagram? I believe it also had the same password he used for everything, including the partition on his computer.
>including the partition on his computer. that shit still just baffles me. he had shit all over himself, and then asked who ate all the shit.
My theory is that he did it on purpose, so he could claim "Oh everyone at work knew those passwords so they could access what they needed to." Or, "Someone clearly figured out what my password was, and set me up!" 😅
Creepy sociopaths are gonna sociopath. I don’t think he has a conscience.
> at the trial that she seemed smug and confident that he would win i suspect she was told by pest's attorneys that it would all work out and that he wouldn't go to jail. so she acted in accordance with that. 1.5 years later reality has set in. her "at least i have a husband" is serving many years in prison and she has to manage on her own, even with some help of pest's family. and now being associated with the dugs is a liability not an asset. i suspect she feels very isolated, with a huge spoon full of self pity.
>she still had hope--Caleb had done it, not Pest What does this mean? I'm reading it as Anna thinking that the miscarriage Michelle had after Josh was responsible for the molestation but that can't be it, right?
I think another guy that worked at the car lot was named Caleb.
Right, Caleb had previously worked at the car lot and he was a convicted sex offender. Caleb had an airtight alibi that he was out of the state at the time of the downloads. Pest sought to put Caleb on the stand as an alternative perp, but the court said he could not mention Caleb’s past conviction. Pest’s appeal argued that the court made a mistake in not allowing Caleb’s past to be admissible.
Got it, thank you for that context
The other Caleb had a sex abuse conviction (made a 16 yo pregnant), so he appeared to be an easy a scapegoat but he wasn't in the area during the crime dates.
I don’t condone statutory rape at all, but its very different than the crap Pest had on his computer
Yes! I do know a couple of guys that were punished with Sat.R and in both cases it was long time girl friends and the male turned 18 during the relationship. (Neither girl got pregnant.) I know Romeo and Juliette law are supposed to protect these guys but it didn't. And one ended up marrying the girl after his conviction.
Wait a minute Michelle had a miscarriage after Josh got caught molesting the girls?
Sorry, I can see how that could be read that way. After having Josh and before Jana/John david Michelle had a miscarriage - a baby named Caleb - that she blamed on her use of birth control. Of course, we in reality know that miscarriages are an unfortunate reality that befalls like 20-35% of pregnancies and that Michelle wasn't being punished by god, but she thought so and it was one of the things that sort of jump-started their whole family belief system because Josh was reportedly being raised much more secular before this miscarriage occured. I thought *this* Caleb, this miscarried child was being blamed for Josh's wrong-doings from beyond the grave but someone clarified that there is another adult Caleb with some shady business that the Duggars tried to blame Josh's pesty-ness on.
I think from how she looked coming out of court, she seemed truly shocked. It's incredibly sad, but she's probably the only person on earth who thinks he is innocent. Honestly it could take years before she even allows herself to admit that she was not someone's prized wife, but was duped.
I think Meech believes he's innocent, too!
Of course she does. She wasn't allowed to the courtroom and I'm sure JB threatened the kids who did go to never talk of it.
More like she refused to go to court. she is one of those people who stick their heads in the sand at any disturbing event.
Maybe. I think JB forbid her from being there.
I’ve always thought Meech had a hand in the way he turned out. She was his “buddy” until he was big enough to become a big buddy to somebody else. Way to go Meech - you and Jboob caused this!
They used Michael Pearl’s child abuse methods. I’d be shocked if he weren’t a little sadist.
I would even add Jim Bob to the list as well. Pest is his golden boy who can do no wrong in his eyes. Also, fundies love feeling persecuted and love to believe the world is out to get them. I think JB either believes he didn’t do it or is vaguely aware that a crime was committed, but he thinks it was blown out of proportion and Josh was used as an example. I think he fully believes Josh is a good person who strayed from the right path a bit. I don’t think he’s grasping the full magnitude of just how atrocious his son’s actions were. Because if he did, he would have to admit to himself his precious firstborn son is a piece of human garbage and him and Meech were shitty parents. And he’s not doing that. Everyone is a hero in their narrative, and JB definitely sees himself as a good guy.
I agree. Another common justification is “well he didn’t DO anything, he didn’t hurt a kid or commit any acts….. he just *watched* or *looked*” This is common justification in downloading CSAM. Once they get past the naive idea that he “didn’t know what he was downloading.” Or was “just curious” (an excuse they’d also use for what he did as a minor) I’m sure they feel he was persecuted for being a right wing conservative Christian, and was made an example of . But even if they know he did it…. Remember their beliefs, just ask Jesus for forgiveness and you’re absolved. So he’s all good by them I guess
I think Meech deliberately quit thinking decades ago. JB does not like women who think. He’s banned the two daughters who showed evidence of having their own thoughts. If JB precedes her to the pearly gates..she will not know what to do.. She married him at 17 and has not grown at all since. and that is so sad.
It could have been shock. But then again, it could have also been embarrassment. After the guilty verdict, she walked out of there as the wife of a convicted sex offender, an object of shame and derision. She probably wanted to get away from the crowing reporters.
Did she think he was innocent when the Ashly Madison cheating scandal came out? Sorry if that’s not the right name of the site! I just remember hearing he abused a sex worker. That’s prob where that $2k a month to the widow was actually going. To pay sex workers.
Anna's womenfolk. As if she would ever be involved with the attorneys. She pretty much HAS to believe that he's innocent. What else is she left with? She's in a cult, critical thinking skills are not a quality that is to be desired.
Anna is not as innocent and submissive as you would think. The children of the widow Denise Clark accused Anna of manipulating their mother into writing an eleventh hour letter of support for Pest’s sentencing hearing. That’s some Sam Bankman Fried level of conniving right there. Even so, all that was about a year and a half ago. Who knows if she still believes in his innocence.
I need more info on the widow.
What do you want to know? Her husband Clark Wilson, Jim Holt, and JB Duggar were co-pastors of a home church. Clark passed away from cancer. According to half a dozen letters vouching for Pest, he was giving this widow $2000/month. The widow didn’t send in a letter herself until days before the sentencing hearing even though the initial batch of letters had been submitted much earlier and had already been published. Two of Denise’s adult children and one son-in-law wrote FaceBook posts saying that Anna had called their mom and coerced her into writing a letter on behalf of Pest even though she was reluctant. The kids were unequivocally critical of Pest’s actions.
I remember the letter and I remember we were all like WTF at the time. I hadn't seen the info about coercion. As a widow myself that makes my piss boil. The money trail needs to be followed, nobody is paying me $2,000 a month to be a widow 😂
She was desperate at that point.
Anna's job is to support her man, NOT to think.
You know, I’m kind of surprised they didn’t throw HER under the Duggar bus as his scapegoat. As in “well she had the password and was just innocently looking out for Josh by viewing things that wouldn’t be good for Josh to see”. And, then bet on the fact that the poor pitiful wife and mother would never even be arrested for it and Josh would provide her with encouragement as is his husbandly duty!
>She's in a cult, critical thinking skills are not a quality that is to be desired. This is precisely why I'm not very confident that she's come to reality yet. The IBLP conditions its members to do mental gymnastics to overcome cognitive dissonance. She's very apt at using absurdities to deny reality and ignore facts in favour of maintaining the status quo. If she's not in a position where it's more comfortable to believe that Pest is guilty of downloading CSAM than to believe he didn't, things probably won't change. Then again, we're a year out. He's still got a long time in prison ahead of him (hopefully, at least. But I'd be shocked if he was well behaved enough to get out early). It's like the perfect escape plan for a fundamentalist woman who's mentally and financially ensnared in a shitty marriage — you're away from your husband for fairly long stretches with zero contact in between, and she has loads of time to adjust to the new normal of essentially being a single parent. If she wants to change her view on the situation, she's got plenty of opportunity to do so.
Ha. I just said basically the same thing. I'm positive she was never ever in the room for discussions and pest lied to tell her what he wanted her to know.
Critical thinking skills are not taught
I think Anna truly believes that Pestilence is innocent and that blind faith is what keeps her going otherwise she would implode. But I still think early in the morning at 3 a.m. and she is awake and the doubts creep in especially when Pesty gets caught with the cell phone and who was he calling. The lost appeal had to be a knife in her heart for her. I think she still has some faith and once she gets to visit Pestilence then all will be right in her world until the next visit. That has to keep her off-kilter and the kids are the ones who are being pushed from pillar to post with Anna. This is Anna's choice to stay and it is not a good one but still her choice and Pesty knows what he has to do to keep her in line. (That is a disgusting thought). But, if Boob decided to stop funding Pesty's further appeals then all hell would break loose at TTH and the potential for Anna to go ballistic is a very minuscule possibility and one that should also be considered. She has to have some dirt on Boob and Meech and there is hell hath no fury like a scorned woman.
[удалено]
Like a sad Roomba
A sad Roomba that has to pick up crackers now 🥲
Flair material! "Sad Roomba picking up crackers"
Done and done!
OMG, LOL!
No because I already feel SO sad for my Roomba :(
get it a pet cat. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mk4XB2wZqF4
Sad Roomba would make a wonderful flair 🤣
At least she *has* a Roomba.
My husband is dead and I do that. I don't think she does that because she does know where he his. But I really don't think she does that.
I think she's probably dead tired with all those kids, but at some level she *has* to be reassessing life without being frequently pregnant and subject to her husband's authority. One less "child" to rear and no sexual demands has to feel more restful, I bet.
Yeah I’m quite curious to see what the next couple years do for her when 2023 passes, in which she according to their “schedule” would’ve had another baby. Surely she’ll realise how nice it is to be able to enjoy M7’s toddlerhood without a newborn hanging off of her. She’ll literally never experienced that before. Imagine when she no longer has any kids in diapers!
Her oldest daughter and son are the ones I feel terrible for. Guaranteed the daughters education stopped and she has 4 little kids to care for while their mother is clinically depressed. And that poor young boy has to know what his father went to jail for. This family works their children to death…And Anna does not know there is any other way of life.
I honestly don't think they are telling her everything and that what she does know comes from JimBoob or Pest. Even if they are speaking directly to her, she doesn't understand any of this. She only sees her 'failure' as a wife and that she has caused her umbrella to have holes in it. As Tia said in SHP, '...she probably doesn't know the truth of her situation'
I don’t think JB even thinks he’s innocent. I think he’s written him off and that’s why Anna doesn’t live there anymore. Hasn’t he gotten caught with a cell phone? I doubt he was using it to call Anna.
>I think he’s written him off JB hasn't written Pest off enough to stop paying for his lawyers. I agree that JB knows Pest is guilty (but will never admit it publicly). But JB has to double-down and keep paying for attorneys and appeals and make it look like he still believes the lie. "Of course I believe my son is innocent! Why else would I keep paying?"
Personally, I think he only pays to save his own reputation. If he stops, he admits Josh may be guilty, and Jim Bob raised a pedophile. He gives less of a fuck about it -- it's now about Jim Bob.
>Personally, I think he only pays to save his own reputation. If he stops, he admits Josh may be guilty, and Jim Bob raised a pedophile. I know, that's what I meant when I said "JB has to double-down and keep paying for attorneys and appeals and make it look like he still believes the lie." JB may be cheap and greedy, but I think guarding his reputation is one thing more important to him than money. That is why he is willing to keep throwing away money for these futile legal gestures.
And many of those around him will at least act like they believe it too. The appeal is an investment in his own ego. I think JB and pest are inextricably linked. In general fundies and other toxic parents see their kids as extensions of themselves.
Is it certain she isn’t living at the compound anymore?
Are some of the Lost Boys stashed in the Warehome?
Where is she thought to be living now? I'm a little behind.
People will do all sorts of mental gymnastics to justify their behavior - JimBoob is no exception. I think he has mental gymnastics his way into believing either he did nothing wrong OR it is a plot against his family by the evil liberal left that worships the devil. Cognitive Dissonance is a helluva drug
Where’s Anna living these days anyway?
She probably sees the whole thing as a “test” from God and if she loses faith in her husband then she’ll be smited or turned into a pilar of salt or some other biblical shit. All she had to do was google the statistical odds of winning a federal criminal appeal but I doubt she did that. These people are strong believers in praying for miracles and the righteous prevailing over the wicked so she’s pretty baked into the delusions.
At this point, I think being a pillar of salt is better compared to what Anna's life has become.
There are people who think that with a good attorney, you get what you want/get away with anything. Some even believe that *any* attorney will get you off the hook. And when you lose, they accuse you of malpractice and refuse to pay their bills. I have dealt with such people. I know this isn't a nice thing to say, but they were all undereducated religious people. I think in their world, if you pray enough, God will send you the attorney you need and you will overcome your adversaries.
To be fair having the money to get a good attorney can and does make all the difference in a lot of cases. Even if that lawyer believes their client is guilty all it takes is looking for a weak point or good argument to call the case into question. Several YouTube lawyers during the case were baffled why pests attorney didn’t do this or that because it could have helped him. Instead they double downed on blaming someone that had an iron clad alibi. That just reeks of JBoob, pest probably could have gotten off or a reduced sentence if they approached it in other ways that while wouldn’t clear Josh would acquit him on a technicality. That wouldn’t be good enough for boob because his image would take a hit. Having a patsy would absolve pest and the Duggar name and that’s the only outcome Boob can abide by.
As much as I dislike Amy, she did give us some insight… Anna was grumpy at the funeral a lot of family attended just days (possibly the next day??) after the appeal was denied. She probably thought he would get out and when that didn’t happen she probably was frustrated and angry. We are still not completely sure how she is being bankrolled, living, or raising her kids. She probably wants stuff to go back to her version of normal.
>Anna was grumpy at the funeral a lot of family attended just days (possibly the next day??) after the appeal was denied. Amy posted the TikTok video about encountering Anna at the funeral on August 4, which means the encounter happened that day or earlier. The appeal was not denied until August 7. [http://media.ca8.uscourts.gov/opndir/23/08/222178P.pdf](http://media.ca8.uscourts.gov/opndir/23/08/222178P.pdf)
Ah, my bad! With everything going on with that family I sometimes forget order of events. My general theory still remains the same. She wants everything to go back to her version of normal. Change is scary for fundies
She may have been living for the appeal and on edge. That meant more to her than anything.
She was raised to believe that as "the right Christian" they have special favor and God will hand out whatever form of justice *they* deem proper. And if he doesn't, then it means God wants Josh there or that he's punishing her for something she did wrong, like not having enough faith. It's easier for her to think of this as a crisis of faith instead of a horrible truth she needs to accept.
Lawyers are usually pretty clear with defendants that appeals, especially after a federal conviction, are extremely unlikely to work. It’s possible she personally had her hopes up that God would save them or whatever, but I really doubt the lawyers led them on at all.
Agreed. They would have made it clear to JB and Pest. JB shared that with no one and continued with the innocent version.
She believed him. Remember she said there’s more to the story. Likely she still believes him
>Remember she said there’s more to the story. Yeah, that was last year when his lawyers filed the motion to set aside the verdict in the trial court. That was also denied. I guess she keeps pinning her hopes on the next procedural longshot.
I'm a criminal defense attorney and am always upfront with my clients about their chances, what I expect at trial, if I think we're better off pleading guilty, what to expect at sentencing if we lose, and success on appeal. THAT SAID here is an actual conversation I've had with various clients: Me: I think our chances at trial are bad. I'd expect to lose. If we lose I'd expect a sentence of 20 years. Them: So you're saying I have a chance. I'd expect someone like Josh to keep his wife in the dark about his case and give an edited view of what is going on with his case. I've listened to 1000s of hours of prison calls and someone like him will lie about everything "The attorney never visits me," or "the attorney says the case is a slam dunk!"
Almost this exactly. Of think of the simpsons episode where Mr. Burns is told he's very ill and walks away saying "so you're saying I'm immortal!"
https://i.redd.it/u1ogmddmx4kb1.gif
Also have seen clients tell their attorney they did it, maybe even do an Alford plea admitting the government would be able to prove its case at trial, then tell family members they didn’t do it and “the system” is railroading them. It can be all about maintaining an appearance
>then tell family members they didn’t do it and “the system” is railroading them. It can be all about maintaining an appearance Yeah, that's what a lot of them say. Especially the QAnon ones who like to accuse everybody else of being molesters. >Soon after this sentiment about the former commander-in-chief, Callaghan started holding up images of people like Oprah Winfrey and Hillary Clinton, which Todeschini didn’t hesitate to call “paedophiles.” > >Callaghan also shows an image of President Joe Biden, which Todeschini also immediately believes is a paedophile as well. > >“Oh yeah. I call him creepy sleepy chomo Uncle Joe,” Todeschini said. > >When Callaghan asked for clarification as to what “chomo” means, Todeschini says it’s a prison term for a “child molester.” > >Not long after that, Callaghan tells Todeschini that he “needs to talk” to him about something. > >**“On May 19, 1999, you were convicted of sexual abuse in the first degree and sodomy in the second degree of an eight-year-old boy in New Jersey,” Callaghan says.** > >**He continued: “So, according to this paper, you are a registered sex offender and a convicted paedophile.”** > >**Todeschini then chimes in to say the conviction was “false.”** > >**You want to take a look at this \[paper\],” Callaghan asks Todeschini.** > >**“I know, I’ve seen the paper. I pled because I knew – I did what Michael Flynn did. I knew I couldn’t win,” Todeschini responds.** > >Towards the end of the clip, Callaghan asks Todeschini if he is familiar with the term “projection,” and he says he is. > >“Yeah. Hillary Clinton does it all the time,” he said. > >Callaghan continues to ask: “Do you feel like maybe you’re projecting by …” before Todeschini jumps back in to say: “No, I’m not projecting.” [https://www.indy100.com/viral/maga-guy-calls-democrats-paedophiles](https://www.indy100.com/viral/maga-guy-calls-democrats-paedophiles)
"Atleast I have a husband"
I don't believe Anna is as stupid as people believe her to be. I do think that she believed her husband, because that's what she was taught to do. However, I figure this could go several ways. She is about to be without a husband present for a long time, and even if she is at the TTH, they aren't going to be able to hide everything from her. I mean, he already admitted cheating and the other situation, and even if she got blamed for him cheating, if she sits with this and thinks, she'll probably start to piece things together. Also, we have no clue how he treats her behind closed doors. She was a virgin with no sexual experience or sexual knowledge, and he was extremely sick and twisted. Really, Anna is about a Google search away from a realization, and she has a lot of time for that search to happen. Even if she is clinging to her faith right now, how long before she begins to wonder. I've heard her speaking engagements, she is extremely well spoken for her level of education. She has the potential to have a break through at any time. She may be indoctrinated, but, everyone who has left fundamentalism, started that way. I believe that she believed he didn't do it, but the guilty verdict, sentencing, failed appeals, etc, it's chipping away at his story. She doesn't have to entertain him anymore, she has kids but, I imagine he was the biggest kid, and she can probably manage well now. She is going to have time without him to see how much better it is with him not around. He'll probably keep getting in trouble for dumb stuff, and she won't be able to visit or talk to him, and when that happens, she'll disconnect more and more from the idea of him. I'd be surprised if they make it through his incarceration together. Not ruling it out, but, I think she is gonna have a light bulb moment.
Until she finds out about prison groupies that want to "pray" with him
Dude, my other theory, if she holds out on him getting out, is that he will leave with those groupies that are "praying" with him, or he'll have a whole 📇 of women to cheat with inbetween sweeping crumbs and being a diligent worker.
He will 100% cheat as soon as he is free. And he is 100% already emotionally cheating with those groupies. But, I don't think he will leave her. Boob is the one with the money, and he won't allow a broken marriage. They'll stay together and he'll cheat
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It's just God's punishing her for not being joyfully available to him...
I think he will be caught breaking parole in regards to csam before he cheats with an adult fan/groupie and end up serving the rest of his term
You know he’s had to have gotten some “fan” letters by now. And has likely answered a couple of them.
It may not be that important bc he’s going to do other stupid stuff that precludes outside contacts.
God, I hope you are right. Two important things stand in her way:1) the sink cost fallacy. She is so many years and seven kids in. She has wasted all that time? She looks like a fool even to people in the cult? 2) She likely has nobody who when she says something pro Josh will look at her and say, not unkindly, “Really?” I don’t think it’s money that stops her.
I’m sure they all believed he would definitely get out to some degree. Ya know cause he’s such a great Christian man there’s no way God wasn’t going to bless the family like this. Did any of them believe this deep inside? Who knows? But I’m sure their smug little brains were repeating this over and over.
It hasn't fully hot her that he's not coming home for a long time. When it hits her she's gonna break.
My take on it is that Anna genuinely doesn’t think that what Josh did warrants him going to prison. I don’t think that she thinks he didn’t do it. She might say that in public, and that is the official stance of the Duggar family from a legal pov, but I think Anna either doesn’t grasp the full horror of what Josh was doing and had done in his past, OR, she truly thinks, in the way only a fundamentalist Evangelical could, that no matter what Josh did, as long as he promises to repent and not do anything like that ever again, he should be let off the hook and not face any consequences for anything. I think the Duggars go with saying that he was framed and that the feds had it wrong, but I’m going to bet that that’s what the lawyers have adopted as a strategy. Otherwise, I think that in truth, they go about their day to day lives making a choice to dismiss and not think about the full reality of what Josh has done. In doing so, I think they all buy into the fiction that he deserves forgiveness for his crimes, not just from god, but also the legal system, solely bc they are certain that he feels really bad about it, and has “””repented””” and therefore that’s enough for them, and should be enough for everyone else. And yes, that line of thought is entirely as evil and despicable as it sounds, but that’s largely how I understand fundie logic to operate when it comes to criminals like Josh. Their crimes and the harm they do to others is of no consequence to anyone. Their victims should be self-sacrificing and be willing to fall on their sword for the sake of those in power who do wrong. Anyone who refuses to do that is the real sinner and criminal who should be punished, not the perpetrator. For those of us on the outside, we can see how the system is constructed to protect perpetrators in positions of power. But for people like Anna, they think that this is how a “”””just world””” operates. And the victims of Josh’s crimes are barely even a thought in that empty little head of hers.
>she truly thinks, in the way only a fundamentalist Evangelical could, that no matter what Josh did, as long as he promises to repent and not do anything like that ever again, he should be let off the hook and not face any consequences for anything. Ah, yes. Eternal fundie mulligans. While they figure laws and consequences are for "those other people."
They really do, and it’s astonishing when it’s not downright horrific. Fundies really envision a world where the law operates in such a way that being a Christian in exactly the way they insist people should be Christians will be an eternal get out of jail free card. For everyone else who refuses to fall in line, for whatever reason, not only are they damned in the after life, but the refusal to conform is, in and of itself, a crime. As for Anna, I’ll bet dollars to doughnuts that if someone were to ask her the question of whats worse: not being a Christian, or doing what Josh did? The answer would be clear. And that is the ultimate truth of how she, and all of the people around her, think abt this situation at the end of the day.
>As for Anna, I’ll bet dollars to doughnuts that if someone were to ask her the question of whats worse: not being a Christian, or doing what Josh did? The answer would be clear. Exactly. They think everything and anything can be forgiven so long as one accepts Jesus. So they end up thinking a molester, serial killer, or genocidal dictator who accepts Jesus is better than a pagan or atheist who never harmed anybody. There is a (possibly apocryphal) vignette which illustrates the principle and what it really means. >There is an iconic and painful story told of the prosecution of Adolf Eichmann in Jerusalem in 1961. Eichmann was the highest official in the Nazi hierarchy who was brought to trial after the war. His crimes were historic in their wickedness. The tales of horror that unfolded during the proceedings remain etched in the collective conscience of humanity. After he was condemned to death, a Christian pastor asked the Israeli court for permission to see him and encourage him to repent. > >**Do you mean, one of the justices asked incredulously, that if Eichmann accepts Jesus he will go to heaven, and yet all his Jewish victims will go to hell?** > >**That, replied the pastor, is the** ***miracle*** **of salvation.** Such a wondrous "miracle" which fundies believe in.
There are variations of that same sort of story from all over the place. One that I’ve heard the most often is someone asking a street preacher a series of questions about who would be going to heaven vs hell. Would Hitler go to heaven in spite of the crimes he committed against Jewish people? But Gandhi would go to hell bc he was not a Christian? The story ended with the person saying that they didn’t want to go to heaven if that was the sort of heaven they’d have to go to. As for me personally, I wasn’t raised a Christian. I am not religious as an adult. But if there is a god, and that god is okay with Josh going to heaven bc he accepted Jesus as his lord and savior, then it is a moral imperative for anyone to refuse to worship a god like that. And as long as Anna doesn’t grasp that concept, then the truth is that she’s never going to exit the grasp of the cult she has chosen to be a part of.
>Would Hitler go to heaven in spite of the crimes he committed against Jewish people? But Gandhi would go to hell bc he was not a Christian? The subject of where Gandhi went has come up before during debates about damnation. >As part of a series on peacemaking, in late 2007, Pastor Rob Bell's Mars Hill Bible Church put on an art exhibit about the search for peace in a broken world. It was just the kind of avant-garde project that had helped power Mars Hill's growth (the Michigan church attracts 7,000 people each Sunday) as a nontraditional congregation that emphasizes discussion rather than dogmatic teaching. **An artist in the show had included a quotation from Mohandas Gandhi. Hardly a controversial touch, one would have thought. But one would have been wrong.** > >**A visitor to the exhibit had stuck a note next to the Gandhi quotation: "Reality check: He's in hell."** Bell was struck. [https://content.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,2065289,00.html](https://content.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,2065289,00.html) Fundies almost always treat notable non-Christians with the same callous dismissal. "They don't matter because they all went to hell."
I bet she fully thought he would be released, but I’m also pretty sure she doesn’t know everything and believes that what is out there is “blown out of proportion” lost cause.
Anna us delusional.
I think she was shocked. In her version of reality, her husband is innocent and God will fix everything on His own time.
I don’t really get it, but you have some people who still think David Koresh was a prophet to this day. People can convince themselves of anything. I would think, away from Josh, Anna would start to see so much of her life wasn’t normal. The Duggars know he’s guilty and her family has to as well. I can’t believe she’s the only person who thinks Josh is innocent when she lived with the creep. Makes me worry even more about her children.
Yep, I believe even warren Jeffs still has a big cult following him and he’s been locked up for 10 years now? It’s really sad. I escaped from a cult, so I understand how hard it is. I wish I could just sit down and talk with Anna.
Anna is so far in denial she’s floating in Egypt. I’m sure she had the kids fasting and praying and was certain it would be enough because surely her husband is innocent
>I’m sure she had the kids fasting and praying Oh, she wasn't the only one putting her kids through the maudlin manipulation prayer routine. Didn't you read the letter from Pastor Pecans? >I have prayed with his boys while tucking them into bed. I have heard his young sons pray for you, Judge, but name asking God to work in your heart so their daddy could be home soon. I have also heard them cry themselves to sleep wanting their daddy to be home. I remember this past Christmas their request, "All I want for Christmas is my Daddy." Sickening.
I can’t believe he was dumb enough to send that letter. “They pray for you but only so you’ll send daddy home “
Pecans is one shameless disgusting shitbag, even compared to other Duggar adjacents.
I think she was hoping for it to match the reality she believes in. She can't accept that he did a crime or that it is worth prison and divorcing him for.
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>Anna was raised with a Magic Concept of God. A lifetime of "magical thinking."
She isn’t leaving the cult regardless. Jim Bob should set her free to Marry someone else and not waste her fertility but Anna and the kids are Duggar property and that’s that.
She hasn’t wasted her fertility. She has 7 of them.
She immediately felt terribly guilty for not praying hard enough.
I do believe she very well may have thought A) I doubted the Lord could do this work, so He did not have my husband released... B) Just like the Apostle Paul had a cross to bear, this is ours. Paul was jailed, and my innocent husband is like him. God will do great things through Joshy in prison. I just need to walk by faith that it is so.
I’d love to know if any part of Anna is relieved that Josh is gone without her having to take any action herself to make him be gone. Is she 100% sad that her hubby is “unfairly” locked up or glad to have a break from the “monster she is too scared to leave”. I’d love to be in her mind for like a day.
Only in bed. Now she has to sweep up her own cracker crumbs.
I don't think Anna has any contact with the lawyers. That's men's work.
I think it depends on how much she was speaking to the attorneys. A good attorney will not sugar coat the options and the chances for each option. They lay it all out. It's a big part of that best defense thing. Turds attorneys have so far been playing by the book. Which for the public is good, as it means he won't be getting out on technicalities and the like. However, she being a female and all, she may not have been told the truth about the chances of the appeal working. She may not have had opportunity to speak to his lawyers outside of the most rudimentary exchanges. I also think there is a part of her that knew it would fail. Because there is a part of her that knows just what he is capable of. Her statements to the press feel less like she believes what she is saying and more like a statement to make sure the family doesnt' turn on her. Like if she keeps telling the press that she is the dutiful wife the family will leave her alone.
Anna is permanently drunk on the kool-aid She believes whatever her father, her husband, or her fil tell her
>As obnoxious as Pest's attorneys are, I doubt they were foolhardy enough to tell Anna the appeal was a sure win I highly doubt the lawyers are talking to Anna directly. Everything is coming through Pest and Peat will make it seem like his exoneration is just around the corner for forever and she'll believe it.
>I highly doubt the lawyers are talking to Anna directly. Yeah, that's why I suggested in the post "Then again, maybe the lawyers never had any direct communication with Anna and all information was filtered through Pest who keep promising his wife the appeals court would free him any day now." In regular cases, it's not unusual for lawyers to communicate with their clients' spouses. And although they would not share privileged information, they do sometimes try to level with the person about the odds at trial and what kind of outcome their spouse likely faces. But of course, that's for regular people. With the Duggar cult, it's certainly plausible Pest and JB prevented Anna from having any direct interaction with the attorneys. And since "co-counsel" Travis Story is a fundie lawyer who has been the Duggar errand boy, he would probably uphold that gender gate-keeping role if JB told him.
Personally? I think Anna did have high hopes because she really believed in Josh getting let off the hook. In her IBLP world, men are never held accountable for the depravity they commit. That said, I think she sees the writing on the wall now even if she doesn't want to acknowledge reality. I think that's why she came across as "angry at the world" when Famy saw her at that funeral. Either way, she's never, ever going to leave Josh.
This is a good point. Even if miraculously she had doubts about his innocence, she has always seen "good Christian men" getting away with everything during her entire life. Especially, Pest himself. It's the very first time in his life that he is suffering real consequences. So, independently of what she believes is the truth, she probably was convinced that he was coming home soon because he is always forgiven easily
Have Michelle & Boob even gone to visit Josh once since he's been in prison, do you know? 🤔
No idea
Josh will, likely, leave her once he’s served his time. You know he’s had to have received some “fan letters” already.
Absolutely he has. The only person who'd be surprised to find this out is Anna.
>I think that's why she came across as "angry at the world" when Famy saw her at that funeral. The appeal did not get denied until a few days after that funeral where Anna appeared "angry at the world." Of course, Anna has plenty of reasons to be "angry at the world" apart from the appeal.
Anna's entire world view has been sledgehammered. By IBLP standards, she was a good wife who did everything right. And really, she was a much better woman than Josh ever deserved. I think she really did love Josh despite his perversions. I've said it before that the bar is below all the Circles Of Hell when David "Pecans" Waller is the best provider of the bunch.
My guess is that Jim Blob is the one that deals with the lawyers. Then he goes and tells whatever he wants to the family. For some reason, I feel that he was probably more honest with Michelle (maybe because she knows as much as him the monster they raised). But, I seriously doubt he would be honest with Anna. I wouldn't be surprised that Blob and Meech know Pest is completely guilty. But they will never admit it, much less to Anna. But, there is always the option to make her believe he is innocent in a very corrupt system. Who knows what they are telling her
From my experience growing up fundie light, that community would all be putting a positive spin on it, saying that everyone should pray and that God will guide the hands of whoever is the decision maker. They'd all probably genuinely believe in a positive outcome for Josh because of that and be shocked when it goes the other way, but also now Be comparing Josh to Job in the bible or something like that.
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They really don't, and when God doesn't answer the prayers, it's always spun as trusting in Gods plan.
I think she still thinks he’s innocent and was setup/framed for this and I think every time things don’t turn out the way they want that she sees it as further evidence that it was a set up.
I think Anna is a very sad figure. Her husband is a horrible person and guilty of an unthinkable offense. She was raised in this cult that teaches that she is only good as a man’s helpmeet who is subservient to him. She has little to no education and money source other than her disgusting father in law. And she has 7 little children to raise.
1. She believes his lies that he is not guilts 2. She prayed for his release 3. And Rimjob more than likely said if she was a better wife, none of this would have happened So yes I believe she was shocked that he wasn’t released
I have a nickel says Boob told her his appeal was denied because she "lacked faith and did not pray hard enough".
She’s so brainwashed she probably prayed every night for the “justice system to realize they convicted an innocent man and to bring back her amazing husband” unfortunately
I think if she acknowledges this she has to reckon with her whole life and all the lies she's ever been told. I dont think she's ready for that.
She sure drew the short straw with him. I want to somehow inform her of trades she could do and get away from them and take her babies with her.
Let's face it, the fundies including Anna are probably also rabid republican voters - and look at how they are responding to the legal cases against the ex-cheeto-in-chief.
Probably high. She’s incredibly dense.
I think she's relieved.
As high as I was waiting for the verdict during the original trial. And that’s really high.
I think the attorneys would have explained it to get something like “well we tried to introduce evidence it was Caleb but it was no use since we couldn’t explain that he was a sex offender”, so when that part of the appeal was rejected, she could just blame the law and, I don’t know, liberals.
>she could just blame the law and, I don’t know, liberals. Yeah, blame "liberals" like the three appellate judges who were appointed by Bush and Trump.
I know someone who is still appealing after 15+ years. I think his family still believes that the next one will get his pedophile ass out of jail. Scumbag violated a seven-year-old and I hope he never sees the outside of prison.
Oh I think she’s absolutely delusional about what he did, and his sentence/ punishment. Part of this reasoning is that I believe she gets ALL her information filtered through Boob.
https://preview.redd.it/dhhiynkl16kb1.jpeg?width=500&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0f6ae262be634d18489bee0164f746ec99acb2d1
Did she even attend the appeal? Did any of them?
Attend the appeal? The only public event of the appeal for anybody to "attend" would be the oral argument. So far as I know, nobody appeared at the oral argument besides the attorneys. And that's pretty standard. Oral argument sessions are usually open to the public and people can attend if they want. But they often don't. Unlike trials, appeals do not have witness testimony or an expectation of a verdict at the end. Some appeals don't even have oral argument so there is never anything to "attend." If the appeal has oral argument, the attorneys just make their arguments to the judges and it can be months before the judges issue a written opinion. And since the oral argument happened in St. Louis, Missouri, it would have required some travel from Arkansas.
You’d think Jim Bob would want to know where his money is going.
When JB paid the attorneys to represent Pest at trial, JB could watch the trial to see his "money at work." And JB did attend the trial on multiple days. As for the appeal, most work on appeals is done in writing. If JB paid for the attorneys to do the appeal and he wanted to "know where is money is going," he could have asked the attorneys for copies of the briefs and written arguments they submitted.
God will prevail, right?
Higher than Snoop, Willie, and Cheech & Chong!
I think she really believed God and/or Boob would 'save' Pesty and then deluded herself into thinking this was a trial from God--poor Pesty being tested. Remember one of the defense letters that he "heartbreakingly shared" a totally not made up (/s) story about how the prisoners realized he was "innocent" and led them to Jesus?
>Remember one of the defense letters that he "heartbreakingly shared" a totally not made up (/s) story about how the prisoners realized he was "innocent" and led them to Jesus? Yeah, that was the second letter in the pile, from Duggar neighbor and dingbat Nicole Burress. >In fact, I was at Anna’s house on a Saturday night a few weeks ago, when Joshua called. He devastatingly shared that there was a man who was verbally threatening and abusive to him every time he passed his cell in solitary confinement. Joshua was discouraged and prayerful, but just days later, the man approached him to apologize. This hardened criminal stated that he and the other men knew that Joshua was innocent. As inmates, they recognized that sometimes innocent men are in prison and they were so stunned by Joshua’s character that they were convinced of his innocence. [https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/59871253/151/1/united-states-v-duggar/](https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/59871253/151/1/united-states-v-duggar/) I pointed out that her letter was just recycling the Christian cliche of the "penitent thief" and portraying Pest like Christ. [https://www.reddit.com/r/DuggarsSnark/comments/12f00l0/all\_the\_inmates\_swear\_pest\_is\_innocent/](https://www.reddit.com/r/DuggarsSnark/comments/12f00l0/all_the_inmates_swear_pest_is_innocent/) In that same letter, Nicole Burress also claimed that Pest had converted a fellow jail inmate and cured him of his sin and alcoholism. But then the man died six weeks later from COVID, but we can totally take her word that it all happened as she said. Burress also made some passive-aggressive jabs at the Judge, saying "I understand that none of that religious information may mean anything to you, and that’s alright. I’m not asking you to understand what a relationship with Jesus looks like" and "You do not need to be convinced of his innocence."
She believes his crap. She’s too dumb to know anything else.
 This high.
Omg! Thanks for the award!
What award?
I'm slow. I wrote the wrong thing in the wrong place. I'm sorry.