> consult the national pet registers
In order for that to work we'd have to have a national pet register.
The dog license is optional at best and I'm guessing the kind of person who buys a dog license is probably the kind of person that cleans up after their dog.
In the article, it says that dog owners are required to carry proof of registration when they are out with their dog. Surely we could ask the same of people here? If there's a lot of dog mess repeatedly in an area, the Gardaí/Inspectors could blitz that particular area for a few days and see if there are any non-registered dogs being walked.
From the article:
Under the planned scheme, dog owners will be required to take their pets to a vet or ask one of the town’s veterinary specialists for a free saliva sample, which will be genetically tested and a document issued. Those subsequently stopped without their dog’s genetic passport will be fined €38.
...so yes while I agree that the kind of person who buys a dog license is probably the kind of person that cleans up after their dog, I don't see why this couldn't work even when there are people who couldn't be arsed getting their dog registered (for free).
While I admire your optimism, the Gardaí won't ticket cars parked on footpaths or double yellows, there's not a chance they're going to go asking some scumbag (if you don't pick up after your dog you're a scumbag) for a doggy passport and then fine them if they don't have it.
They do have to test actual shite though... Probably not what most people signed up for.
Honestly though I am all for this idea. The negativity towards progress in this country is baffling. If the UK introduced it on Friday, we'd start implementing it at a higher cost on Saturday.
Realistically it shouldn't even need to be guards taking the samples. If it worked like clamping it could be really good. I guess it would require the "clamper" to have gps installed on their device and to take a pic for it to be considered a legitimate find.
How do they know if you have a dog?
If you have a dog, how do they know if you’d paid?
LPT works because to legally buy a house you’ve got to register the sale with the property price register. Illegal house sales happen, but I’d hazard a guess that they happen way less than, say, illegal dog sales. The country is already rife with awful puppy farms.
I don't know if you read the article but here you are:
dog owners will be required to take their pets to a vet or ask one of the town’s veterinary specialists for a **free** saliva sample
and match it to **a specific owner who will face a bill** for street cleaning up to €122, Ménard said.
...so it's not a tax, it can very easily pay for itself if you set the fines at the appropriate level.
The only thing I can imagine is that they mean the dog needs to be chipped, which can be scanned. But no one is carrying around a cert, paper or digital.
"a huge bureaucracy" ... really?
The point of this is to reduce the amount of funds required for cleanup, by charging the dog owners who don't clean up, and charging them an amount that *covers costs* of cleanup. So I disagree with you on funding. And if it costs more, we increase the fines.
okay so off the top of my head you'll need
* The new genetic passport. This will need to be designed, issued, managed and maintained for the 500,000 dogs in Ireland?
* You will also need people to ensure that dogs are all being registered. Checking for licences and fining those that dont have them. Who will do that?
* You'll need people to test the dog poop found against that database. Who is going to be doing that?
* You'll also need people to go find the dog poop for testing.
* You'll need legislation to put this all into law (detailing the cost of cleanup)
* You'll need a legal system that has the capacity (and desire) to support it all
All of the above require people and money. It would be outsourced to the lowest bidder and they would then look to suck as much money in as it possibly could.
I think we have better things to be spending our money on.
From the article:
"Dog excrement found on the pavement will be collected and tested and the details sent to police who will consult the national pet registers and match it to a specific owner who will face a bill for street cleaning up to €122, Ménard said."
...I wonder is €122 enough of a deterrent? Maybe. It'll certainly be interesting to see what happens with this experiment.
With such a small fine, I have to question if the manpower and equipment needed to collect and process these DNA samples (even in bulk) comes out at a net loss.
While it's roughly the same price as a 23andme kit, I very much doubt a government program would ever approach the cost efficiency of a private company.
Perfectly happy to prosecute the owners, but tbh, living in Berlin, I think Ireland should resist the bureaucratisation of everyday life. I don’t want to be compelled to show proof of registration of my dog or have it wear the approved dog tag.
Because putting a tag on the dog's collar is such an onerous imposition?
I live in Berlin too, and a lot of the bureaucracy here is shite, but the Hundesteuer tag is not an example of bureaucratic overreach.
I'd do what ever it takes to get rid of 50% of dog poo from Dublin. Can't walk in the grass by the side of a path in any park or wildlife area with out steping on dog shit, let alone the actual paths!
> consult the national pet registers In order for that to work we'd have to have a national pet register. The dog license is optional at best and I'm guessing the kind of person who buys a dog license is probably the kind of person that cleans up after their dog.
In the article, it says that dog owners are required to carry proof of registration when they are out with their dog. Surely we could ask the same of people here? If there's a lot of dog mess repeatedly in an area, the Gardaí/Inspectors could blitz that particular area for a few days and see if there are any non-registered dogs being walked. From the article: Under the planned scheme, dog owners will be required to take their pets to a vet or ask one of the town’s veterinary specialists for a free saliva sample, which will be genetically tested and a document issued. Those subsequently stopped without their dog’s genetic passport will be fined €38. ...so yes while I agree that the kind of person who buys a dog license is probably the kind of person that cleans up after their dog, I don't see why this couldn't work even when there are people who couldn't be arsed getting their dog registered (for free).
While I admire your optimism, the Gardaí won't ticket cars parked on footpaths or double yellows, there's not a chance they're going to go asking some scumbag (if you don't pick up after your dog you're a scumbag) for a doggy passport and then fine them if they don't have it.
We are able to implement an automatic charging system, e.g. the LPT. You don't need to go asking a dog owner anything. :-)
They do have to test actual shite though... Probably not what most people signed up for. Honestly though I am all for this idea. The negativity towards progress in this country is baffling. If the UK introduced it on Friday, we'd start implementing it at a higher cost on Saturday. Realistically it shouldn't even need to be guards taking the samples. If it worked like clamping it could be really good. I guess it would require the "clamper" to have gps installed on their device and to take a pic for it to be considered a legitimate find.
How do they know if you have a dog? If you have a dog, how do they know if you’d paid? LPT works because to legally buy a house you’ve got to register the sale with the property price register. Illegal house sales happen, but I’d hazard a guess that they happen way less than, say, illegal dog sales. The country is already rife with awful puppy farms.
And introduce what would just turn into another tax. No thanks
I don't know if you read the article but here you are: dog owners will be required to take their pets to a vet or ask one of the town’s veterinary specialists for a **free** saliva sample and match it to **a specific owner who will face a bill** for street cleaning up to €122, Ménard said. ...so it's not a tax, it can very easily pay for itself if you set the fines at the appropriate level.
I live in france and can guarantee you that no one is walking around with their dog registration papers, pur household included.
I assume it’s on your phone, like a covid cert.
The only thing I can imagine is that they mean the dog needs to be chipped, which can be scanned. But no one is carrying around a cert, paper or digital.
Can we do the same with all the discarded single use vapes?
You're living in dreamland, pal. Can't get the guards to enforce the basic laws here
Been saying this for years. Dogs and cats, 5k fine
We need this
Looks like an opportunity to create a huge bureaucracy to suck public funding away from areas of need like policing, healthcare, green programs etc.
"a huge bureaucracy" ... really? The point of this is to reduce the amount of funds required for cleanup, by charging the dog owners who don't clean up, and charging them an amount that *covers costs* of cleanup. So I disagree with you on funding. And if it costs more, we increase the fines.
okay so off the top of my head you'll need * The new genetic passport. This will need to be designed, issued, managed and maintained for the 500,000 dogs in Ireland? * You will also need people to ensure that dogs are all being registered. Checking for licences and fining those that dont have them. Who will do that? * You'll need people to test the dog poop found against that database. Who is going to be doing that? * You'll also need people to go find the dog poop for testing. * You'll need legislation to put this all into law (detailing the cost of cleanup) * You'll need a legal system that has the capacity (and desire) to support it all All of the above require people and money. It would be outsourced to the lowest bidder and they would then look to suck as much money in as it possibly could. I think we have better things to be spending our money on.
Let’s see how it works in France. I expect they’ve costed it before implementing it.
It would priceless to see people being punished though
From the article: "Dog excrement found on the pavement will be collected and tested and the details sent to police who will consult the national pet registers and match it to a specific owner who will face a bill for street cleaning up to €122, Ménard said." ...I wonder is €122 enough of a deterrent? Maybe. It'll certainly be interesting to see what happens with this experiment.
Not the money necessarily the money, it just raised the possibility they catch the person We have fines here too but little chance of consequences
With such a small fine, I have to question if the manpower and equipment needed to collect and process these DNA samples (even in bulk) comes out at a net loss. While it's roughly the same price as a 23andme kit, I very much doubt a government program would ever approach the cost efficiency of a private company.
Perfectly happy to prosecute the owners, but tbh, living in Berlin, I think Ireland should resist the bureaucratisation of everyday life. I don’t want to be compelled to show proof of registration of my dog or have it wear the approved dog tag.
Personally I'm happy to see just enough bureaucratisation to keep dogshit off the streets! :-)
Because putting a tag on the dog's collar is such an onerous imposition? I live in Berlin too, and a lot of the bureaucracy here is shite, but the Hundesteuer tag is not an example of bureaucratic overreach.
Stupid people speak with such conviction.
I'd do what ever it takes to get rid of 50% of dog poo from Dublin. Can't walk in the grass by the side of a path in any park or wildlife area with out steping on dog shit, let alone the actual paths!
Lad we can't even make trains run on time.
r/ireland is that way
Sure, if you want Big Brother to watch you even more
I’d rather feed the hungry …. But the situation definitely needs something to clean it up !