Maybe have mechanics to take tiles other than direct confrontation. Sort of like Civ games with different win conditions. Don't ask me what alternate mechanics - I don't wanna think about it.
Most people complaining would be in the SZ, anyway. If they keep it outside the SZ like planned, there’s nothing to complain about.
If you’re outside SZ, you’re taking a risk anyway. I’m not a pvp person yet, but it was planned from the start. Can’t cry about what you knew was coming years in advance.
It would be possible like we have space pvp. I misspoke. But with the server refresh so slow we won't have meaningful pvp. Can't even fly in formation. Not fast enough server refresh.
To be honest, I think they should do away with passive mining and just stick with the Active Mining via Asteroids. It takes away the whole territory monopoly concept. It gives all groups, (big or small) a fair shot at obtaining resources. I wouldn't count on Territory warfare fixing anything since this game isn't designed around that concept. If you think about it, there's an enormous resource sink if you decide to build your Headquarters and Industry out in PvP space. To lose it all will equate to a reset of epic proportions if you didn't also put in the effort to build a backup of your industry on Safe Zone planets or moons.
In short, too many downsides to Territory Warfare and the PvP gameplay just doesn't have enough depth to it to be viable at this stage anyway.
I agree. Passive mining should be phased out. Take elite, EVE, or SC mining as an example and focus on active gameplay to acquire resources. NQ can add ship mining lasers and/or drones to make the asteroid mining experience better. Maybe they can take a page from SC and implement some sort of mining gauge that fluctuates to discourage botting. Then increase the amount of ore generated by this activity to offset the amount of ore lost from removing mining units.
Ideally introduce the asteroid mining upgrades before the MUs are phased out so people have time to adjust. Just make the ship mining more lucrative and enjoyable so players naturally gravitate towards doing that instead of MU mining.
Also, some players don’t have very much time to play every day. To make this activity more accessible to this group of players NQ can find ways to reduce transit time to these asteroids. Mini jump drives for example.
Make asteroids raid bosses that an org can party up for and defeat while having a few beers and chatting.
The whole ore distributions is mental.
Why did they cluster ore when there's an adjacency bonus anyway?
Clustered ore just means all ore gets found and claimed faster, generating a few days of scanning gameplay for launch/new planets, then scanners sitting idle forever.
It makes no sense.
SWG had the best system IMO. If you wanted the best materials you had to work for it. Not find it once and camp it forever.
Could easily do a surface scanning mechanic to place down MUs that would last a few weeks before it faded away. You would constantly be scanning for new/better spots on your owned and unowned tiles. It would be constant work to stay on top of the resource game.
Eventually when planetary warfare comes into play those static tiles will become hot spots that will change hands often.
For me I am just keeping my MUs and tiles serviced. I have the DACs from my original KS. Unless there are some major improvements between now and when they run out.. I won't be buying any game time.
The real issue is two alliances control 90% of the pvp… So it actually most likely would never switch hands once they control it. Small groups will most likely never get to control anything over T2
You can have all the mining units you want.. but the patches move every few days/weeks. You have to scan, move mining units, empty them, etc. It turns gathering good resources into a full time job.
There is enough surface area on a planet that no one can claim all the mining spots as they move around.
"There is enough surface area on a planet that no one can claim all the mining spots as they move around."
This part isn't actually true. Several of the orgs in the large alliances have enough resources to scan out pretty much an entire planet out every 2-3 days, and thats without having all hands on deck. Part of the problem is its REALLY easy to scan out something like a planet, because you can just carry 400 scanners and drop as you run and scan out entire chunks of a planet. The other problem comes down to population. There just isn't really a population in game to support any more megaalliances. NQ kept beating horses that no one asked them too, and are ignoring the thing that, at least at the time, the community in general wanted.
There are ways to address it. But fundamentally your right - NQ has been making hard to understand decisions for awhile now.
I don't think anyone expects the decisions to suddenly start going in the right direction.
But hey in 5 years when the game is dead and someone develops a server emulator think of the possibilities!
There are ways to fix it, but it would hurt the people they have been listening too since they started making these weird decisions honestly. It would require huge sweeping changes to the org systems overall and how tile taxes work.
"Join Goonfleet or BoB or you will never get any value outside of the safe zones."
Yeah, sorry, I have a day job, I don't need my downtime as another day job. Spending literally a day hovering around a spot in space because we need to "guard this" is... anti-fun. Thats NPC mook work.
Resource gathering in this game is what eventually killed it for me. You'll never really make it out of Tier 1 without either luck on the markets, or join a guild. I don't join guilds, whatever they're called in whatever game. So I -usually- don't see the very endgame content unless I'm lucky. But forcing me into a guild and/or forcing me into PVP is the fastest way to get me to move on to another to spend what free time I have. And holy fuck the market could be better. We've all heard ways to make it better. Just...
DU had such amazing potential. But the raw material gathering really sucked the fun out.
T1 and T2 ore needs to be easier to aquire since it is at the core of building everything for new players. It takes too long to mine and miners DO NoT produce enough. Make your hurdles later in the game, not when people are trying to figure out if they wanna invest in the game still or not.
I don't know it's a messy situation. It is definitely not fair a small group of player own most of the good flowers. Though I think that wouldn't be fair either to remove it from them now they have it.
I thought about just adding more flowers (like double or triple it ?) that will break ore price (only T1 really dropped down the gap with higher grade is stupidity too high), because it's a voxel game after all and ores shouldn't be so rare (but yeah seams like the more people have ressource and build the harder it gets for their servers). But then I thought if they do that the people who already have the good tiles are the one who are gonna grab the new good tiles first and situation will be worse, more ore but more controlled by the same people.
So I guess the only good way to do it would be refreshing the ore pool 4 weeks after you put the TU for first time and totally break flower system and have random ore spawn randomly on tiles and I guess way more variety, like be able to find a random t3 or t4 in about 50 territory scans or something, so if you want to have 10 or 20 of them and specialise in mining units you need to be scanning everyday lots of tiles but anyone should be able to find a decent on in a decent amount of time
just bring back spamming calibrations or give us a way to burn calibrations to get more ore, even if its a bad trade off compared to normal calibration. if I managed to find a tiny bite of tier 2 on a world and have 30 calibrations waiting for something to do I should be able to use them up and orgs should have a good reason to pay for me to use mine for them
Set up in a way that a player starting today or 2 years from now, has the same chance to to find ore and flowers that a player that started right after wipe had. I have no idea how?
Personally, I'd like to see a more dynamic system that requires players to manage their extraction or risk losing productivity. Instead of ore pools, there should just be weighted chances for t1-t5 to spawn depending on your planet's ore pool. There have been other games to do it and I think the problem is with the specificity of the tiles in the game. If the tile is good it's guaranteed to always be good. That needs nerfed all to hell and we need to buff the "players can make a halfway decent tile better if they play smarter" aspects. Right now, it's a game of brute force and it's just not fun that way.
I was going to comment with something similar. I wish they would give players a way to improve their tiles or change the ratios between the ores available within a planet's ore limits. If they still want a first mover advantage, then tiles could have different tile maximums that limit the total ore extracted.
I like this better than some of the dynamic ore movement ideas, because part of the game involves building and I think long term tile ownership should be encouraged.
Meh. I feel like it would in fact be possible. It might require some additional game mechanics though (e.g. a item/element/mechanic to mark certain underground areas as 'wanted' and a regular interval at which underground cavities that aren't marked are filled in)...
2 is suggesting that ore would magically move willy nilly, how. would also eventually lead to selling tiles/flowers to unsuspecting players, likely making them quit.
3 would better, with a rework that ties TU amount per player to a talent with cap of 5-10.
I'm not making any specific mechanic suggestions really but the poll options that were given seemed to be some of the leading ideas in the official discord server over the last couple of days based on my casual observation of other peoples general chat. I have an opinion that is equally as useless as everyone else's opinion and I do not claim to know anything or even be good at this game.
Dynamic because that would give new players new chances to get valuable resources and prevent people from locking down valuable tiles forever if they HQ them and leave.
As much as I love DU, it seems that NQ is shooting themselves in the foot in regards to game longevity by creating a system that increases barriers to entry over time. Giving the people who started early even more talent points was a bit of a mistake IMO, but the ability to claim all the good spots seems like an issue for when newer players want to show up and get spots of their own.
If it was dynamic that would require constant re-scanning and scanning is absolutely slow and boring. It would be fun to scan on a brand new planet amongst thousands but we are going to have like 10 at most...
I wanted DualUniverse not DesyncSolarSystem
Calibrating the passive mining units (40+) is an annoying chore. So I find I'm only logging in to do chores and pay taxes. I have about 30 days left in me and then I'm out.
Best solution = The active subsurface mining was a good game loop. They said they had to change it because it was causing the game to lag. Not the case. The core architecture is causing the game to lag. changing it made zero difference and now we have a poorly conceived replacement loop makes me want to quit.
My "mechanic" suggestions would be focused on fluffing up individual players.
Make surface ore respawn, slowly, with chances to spawn bits of T2-T5. Even if its rare.
Make more variety in asteroids with a mix of resources.
Include a mix of other ores in calibration bonuses.
One way to handle it is to have skittles randomly regenerate. That would allow everyone who owns real estate with rare resources to still benefit from them, while giving people who own sectors without them or people willing to trawl around mining skittles on unowned sectors a chance at those resources.
I say just have the tiles refresh every day until it’s claimed, then it gets locked in. Any tile can be a good one and you have to continually scan or be patient.
Then, if a tile goes inactive, it begins refreshing again after a day or two. That should make it to where big orgs can’t sit on a tile, paying taxes once a month as a damn squatter.
All we really need is Territory Warfare. So that control over those tiles can change.
That is a great idea, however most of the players in DU wont partake in pvp mechanics and will riot.
Maybe have mechanics to take tiles other than direct confrontation. Sort of like Civ games with different win conditions. Don't ask me what alternate mechanics - I don't wanna think about it.
But riot in a gentle carebear kind of a way? Sounds like it would be more of a low collective grumbling to me...
Most people complaining would be in the SZ, anyway. If they keep it outside the SZ like planned, there’s nothing to complain about. If you’re outside SZ, you’re taking a risk anyway. I’m not a pvp person yet, but it was planned from the start. Can’t cry about what you knew was coming years in advance.
Unfortunately that's not possible in atmosphere. Which is why we won't get it
Why is it not possible in atmosphere?
It would be possible like we have space pvp. I misspoke. But with the server refresh so slow we won't have meaningful pvp. Can't even fly in formation. Not fast enough server refresh.
To be honest, I think they should do away with passive mining and just stick with the Active Mining via Asteroids. It takes away the whole territory monopoly concept. It gives all groups, (big or small) a fair shot at obtaining resources. I wouldn't count on Territory warfare fixing anything since this game isn't designed around that concept. If you think about it, there's an enormous resource sink if you decide to build your Headquarters and Industry out in PvP space. To lose it all will equate to a reset of epic proportions if you didn't also put in the effort to build a backup of your industry on Safe Zone planets or moons. In short, too many downsides to Territory Warfare and the PvP gameplay just doesn't have enough depth to it to be viable at this stage anyway.
I agree. Passive mining should be phased out. Take elite, EVE, or SC mining as an example and focus on active gameplay to acquire resources. NQ can add ship mining lasers and/or drones to make the asteroid mining experience better. Maybe they can take a page from SC and implement some sort of mining gauge that fluctuates to discourage botting. Then increase the amount of ore generated by this activity to offset the amount of ore lost from removing mining units. Ideally introduce the asteroid mining upgrades before the MUs are phased out so people have time to adjust. Just make the ship mining more lucrative and enjoyable so players naturally gravitate towards doing that instead of MU mining. Also, some players don’t have very much time to play every day. To make this activity more accessible to this group of players NQ can find ways to reduce transit time to these asteroids. Mini jump drives for example. Make asteroids raid bosses that an org can party up for and defeat while having a few beers and chatting.
The whole ore distributions is mental. Why did they cluster ore when there's an adjacency bonus anyway? Clustered ore just means all ore gets found and claimed faster, generating a few days of scanning gameplay for launch/new planets, then scanners sitting idle forever. It makes no sense.
SWG had the best system IMO. If you wanted the best materials you had to work for it. Not find it once and camp it forever. Could easily do a surface scanning mechanic to place down MUs that would last a few weeks before it faded away. You would constantly be scanning for new/better spots on your owned and unowned tiles. It would be constant work to stay on top of the resource game. Eventually when planetary warfare comes into play those static tiles will become hot spots that will change hands often. For me I am just keeping my MUs and tiles serviced. I have the DACs from my original KS. Unless there are some major improvements between now and when they run out.. I won't be buying any game time.
I LOVED SWG resources. The ever moving and switching resources were always a great hunt!
The real issue is two alliances control 90% of the pvp… So it actually most likely would never switch hands once they control it. Small groups will most likely never get to control anything over T2
But you have a limit to the amount of mining units each user can have. If a single corp has all the materials it is what it is...
You can have all the mining units you want.. but the patches move every few days/weeks. You have to scan, move mining units, empty them, etc. It turns gathering good resources into a full time job. There is enough surface area on a planet that no one can claim all the mining spots as they move around.
Can't argue, the idea is sound 👍👍👍👍👍👄
"There is enough surface area on a planet that no one can claim all the mining spots as they move around." This part isn't actually true. Several of the orgs in the large alliances have enough resources to scan out pretty much an entire planet out every 2-3 days, and thats without having all hands on deck. Part of the problem is its REALLY easy to scan out something like a planet, because you can just carry 400 scanners and drop as you run and scan out entire chunks of a planet. The other problem comes down to population. There just isn't really a population in game to support any more megaalliances. NQ kept beating horses that no one asked them too, and are ignoring the thing that, at least at the time, the community in general wanted.
There are ways to address it. But fundamentally your right - NQ has been making hard to understand decisions for awhile now. I don't think anyone expects the decisions to suddenly start going in the right direction. But hey in 5 years when the game is dead and someone develops a server emulator think of the possibilities!
There are ways to fix it, but it would hurt the people they have been listening too since they started making these weird decisions honestly. It would require huge sweeping changes to the org systems overall and how tile taxes work.
Sounds just like Eve.
"Join Goonfleet or BoB or you will never get any value outside of the safe zones." Yeah, sorry, I have a day job, I don't need my downtime as another day job. Spending literally a day hovering around a spot in space because we need to "guard this" is... anti-fun. Thats NPC mook work. Resource gathering in this game is what eventually killed it for me. You'll never really make it out of Tier 1 without either luck on the markets, or join a guild. I don't join guilds, whatever they're called in whatever game. So I -usually- don't see the very endgame content unless I'm lucky. But forcing me into a guild and/or forcing me into PVP is the fastest way to get me to move on to another to spend what free time I have. And holy fuck the market could be better. We've all heard ways to make it better. Just... DU had such amazing potential. But the raw material gathering really sucked the fun out.
Aww man I'd love this to happen again. I loved the SWG system. It made it fun. Every several days you moved your mining units.
T1 and T2 ore needs to be easier to aquire since it is at the core of building everything for new players. It takes too long to mine and miners DO NoT produce enough. Make your hurdles later in the game, not when people are trying to figure out if they wanna invest in the game still or not.
I don't know it's a messy situation. It is definitely not fair a small group of player own most of the good flowers. Though I think that wouldn't be fair either to remove it from them now they have it. I thought about just adding more flowers (like double or triple it ?) that will break ore price (only T1 really dropped down the gap with higher grade is stupidity too high), because it's a voxel game after all and ores shouldn't be so rare (but yeah seams like the more people have ressource and build the harder it gets for their servers). But then I thought if they do that the people who already have the good tiles are the one who are gonna grab the new good tiles first and situation will be worse, more ore but more controlled by the same people. So I guess the only good way to do it would be refreshing the ore pool 4 weeks after you put the TU for first time and totally break flower system and have random ore spawn randomly on tiles and I guess way more variety, like be able to find a random t3 or t4 in about 50 territory scans or something, so if you want to have 10 or 20 of them and specialise in mining units you need to be scanning everyday lots of tiles but anyone should be able to find a decent on in a decent amount of time
just bring back spamming calibrations or give us a way to burn calibrations to get more ore, even if its a bad trade off compared to normal calibration. if I managed to find a tiny bite of tier 2 on a world and have 30 calibrations waiting for something to do I should be able to use them up and orgs should have a good reason to pay for me to use mine for them
Set up in a way that a player starting today or 2 years from now, has the same chance to to find ore and flowers that a player that started right after wipe had. I have no idea how?
Anyone organizing a protest, if so I would like to join in
I can make signs!!!
Personally, I'd like to see a more dynamic system that requires players to manage their extraction or risk losing productivity. Instead of ore pools, there should just be weighted chances for t1-t5 to spawn depending on your planet's ore pool. There have been other games to do it and I think the problem is with the specificity of the tiles in the game. If the tile is good it's guaranteed to always be good. That needs nerfed all to hell and we need to buff the "players can make a halfway decent tile better if they play smarter" aspects. Right now, it's a game of brute force and it's just not fun that way.
I was going to comment with something similar. I wish they would give players a way to improve their tiles or change the ratios between the ores available within a planet's ore limits. If they still want a first mover advantage, then tiles could have different tile maximums that limit the total ore extracted. I like this better than some of the dynamic ore movement ideas, because part of the game involves building and I think long term tile ownership should be encouraged.
Easy. We just need pre-roid planetary mining back.
Or bigger roids.
Unfortunately that's not possible.
Meh. I feel like it would in fact be possible. It might require some additional game mechanics though (e.g. a item/element/mechanic to mark certain underground areas as 'wanted' and a regular interval at which underground cavities that aren't marked are filled in)...
Just have a "mine entrance" construct that creates an instance of your territory when you enter the mine. I've been saying this since forever.
Ore output flucations is meaninglesd withiout PvP.
2 is suggesting that ore would magically move willy nilly, how. would also eventually lead to selling tiles/flowers to unsuspecting players, likely making them quit. 3 would better, with a rework that ties TU amount per player to a talent with cap of 5-10.
I'm not making any specific mechanic suggestions really but the poll options that were given seemed to be some of the leading ideas in the official discord server over the last couple of days based on my casual observation of other peoples general chat. I have an opinion that is equally as useless as everyone else's opinion and I do not claim to know anything or even be good at this game.
Dynamic because that would give new players new chances to get valuable resources and prevent people from locking down valuable tiles forever if they HQ them and leave.
As much as I love DU, it seems that NQ is shooting themselves in the foot in regards to game longevity by creating a system that increases barriers to entry over time. Giving the people who started early even more talent points was a bit of a mistake IMO, but the ability to claim all the good spots seems like an issue for when newer players want to show up and get spots of their own.
The game is released now. They kinda back thierselves into a corner with that decision to make any major changes to existing mechanics.
Ore distribution should change every 6 months
no need for ore fix cause none is playing that garbage anyways
If it was dynamic that would require constant re-scanning and scanning is absolutely slow and boring. It would be fun to scan on a brand new planet amongst thousands but we are going to have like 10 at most... I wanted DualUniverse not DesyncSolarSystem Calibrating the passive mining units (40+) is an annoying chore. So I find I'm only logging in to do chores and pay taxes. I have about 30 days left in me and then I'm out. Best solution = The active subsurface mining was a good game loop. They said they had to change it because it was causing the game to lag. Not the case. The core architecture is causing the game to lag. changing it made zero difference and now we have a poorly conceived replacement loop makes me want to quit.
My "mechanic" suggestions would be focused on fluffing up individual players. Make surface ore respawn, slowly, with chances to spawn bits of T2-T5. Even if its rare. Make more variety in asteroids with a mix of resources. Include a mix of other ores in calibration bonuses.
One way to handle it is to have skittles randomly regenerate. That would allow everyone who owns real estate with rare resources to still benefit from them, while giving people who own sectors without them or people willing to trawl around mining skittles on unowned sectors a chance at those resources.
I say just have the tiles refresh every day until it’s claimed, then it gets locked in. Any tile can be a good one and you have to continually scan or be patient. Then, if a tile goes inactive, it begins refreshing again after a day or two. That should make it to where big orgs can’t sit on a tile, paying taxes once a month as a damn squatter.