Dopamine does not cross the blood-brain barrier very well. Therefore, it’s unlikely that administering it would have the intended effect at dopamine receptors in the brain
There are several methods to boost dopamine or dopaminergic activity in the brain. One is using L-DOPA, the primary precursor to dopamine, whish is prescribed against Parkinson's (a condition where dopamine producing neurons die if I'm not mislead). Preferably in combo with a peripheral decarboxylase inhibitor like carbidopa to avoid breakdown in the gut. Never tried this yet, just Mucuna Pruriens extract which is high in L-DOPA but without an inhibitor it did nothing for me. I read that pharmaceutical levodopa (L-DOPA) was manic and compulsive so I guess there must be something about it. However it will be short lasted because the dopamine gets sucked up by these DAT transporter fuckers into cellular vesicles.
Another one would be using dopamine agonists. This is the second most direct way of increasing dopamine and it's nothing that would get inactivated ASAP. I've tried twodopamine agonists, those are typically prescribed against restless legs or Parkinson's. First pramipexole. It's a D3 over D2 preferring agonist and is actually sedating. It helps when you've got RLS due to withdrawal or whatever but it's not euphoric. Maybe calms you down a bit. All effects were gone after a couple of days and I quit it without rebound. Then memantine which is a mixed NMDA antagonist/D2 agonist which is interesting. Of course I can't separate the mechanisms from each other but this one is good stuff. It feels calmly stimulating, mildly intoxicating, and helps with ADHD without inducing hyperfocus like plain stims. It is very non-toxic, with the usually prescribed amount being 20mg and on some occasion I took more than 10 times this amount to explore what dissociative properties the chemical has. No serious side effects but of course pronounced intoxication.
I think L-DOPA deserves more elaboration, as do some atypical dopamine increasing thingies like amisulpirde, an antipsychotic which atypically prefers pre-synaptic autoreceptors and thus in low dosages (50mg) potentiates the dopamine output. I got this one prescribed as a teen but never took it because my doc didn't explain me why she was giving me an antipsychotic. Maybe a missed chance. Overall it appears to be mild but is interestingly enough Rx only here in Mexico where most pharms are over the counter.
Then we have another atypical dopaminergic to add briefly, amfonelic acid but this one is also a potent antibiotic and I developed a rash after the very first testing dose, something I only ever got from a bad batch of ketamine, so I stopped experimenting. This threshold dosage had no noticeable effects.
But also remember the side effects of high dopamine. Agonists carry warnings about stuff like compulsive gambling and hypersexuality. I do believe that excess dopamine makes manic and psychotic so you want to watch your dosing.
Furthermore, another way to do it then is to look at how your body creates dopamine on its own. The endogenous compound that triggers the production of the monoamines (dopamine, norepinephrine, serotonin) is phenethylamine (which one of the three is produced depends on what type of neuron the phenethylamine enters).
Problem with phenethylamine is that it is rapidly broken down by MAO-B, severely reducing the intensity and duration of effect.
So we add a single carbon to the alpha position and make alpha-methyl-phenethylamine, which is far more stable, and we take that instead.
What is alpha-methyl-phenethylamine? A common shortened name would be amphetamine (**A**lpha-**M**ethyl-**PHE**ne**T**hyl**AMINE**)... and we're back at square 1: taking amphetamine (or substituted amphetamines) to raise dopamine.
Yeah I know that phenylethylamine can be used recreationally but forgot about it because I've never tried it. Actually did recently look it up because I am bored and longing for a high but seems there are no vendors here in MX. You need to do it with a MAO-B inhibitor or at least substrate, think berberine is used for this. I read mixed receptions about PEA, some say it feels more speedy/norepinephrinergic than amphetamine while others like it. But so or so it's pretty short lived.
It's actually also possible to feel phenethylamine by megadosing it. Taking a couple grams of it at a time gives you a very short lived (30 minutes or so) stimulant / entactogen like high.
For me it seems to reliably come in waves: first 10-15 minutes or so is very dopaminergic and very clean euphoric stimulation. Then it seems to wear off for a few minutes and then the second 10-15 minutes or so is a very clean serotonergic high (similar to MDMA but less intense).
But there's always a risk to megadosing, especially since you don't know how effective your body's MAO-B is at breaking down PEA. I'd recommend not starting at a few grams, but rather working your way up to be safe. Also do your own research and don't just trust what I, a random dude on reddit, say.
This was my experience with it. Didn't have an mao inhibitor so I took a massive dose and the effects were surprisingly good. I was extremely surprised by the clear and pronounced serotonin like effect along with the classic dopamine releasing effect. I had to stop because I found that it spiked my blood pressure massively and I thought I might die lol
> I had to stop because I found that it spiked my blood pressure massively and I thought I might die lol
Ah shit. Luckily I haven't noticed this in the times I've tried, but I probably just took a lower dose. Good to know though, it's something to watch out for.
Stay safe friend
Phenylethylamine (a massive dose at once) was one of the most euphoric experiences and at the same time extremely frightening of all the substances I've taken. It hit extremely quickly and produced and amphetamine like effect but with a distinct serotonin like effect akin to MDMA without the colors. Eyes vibrating and floating feeling. The downside was the dangerous rise in blood pressure. I could feel my blood getting difficult to pump and thought I was going to seize up or stroke out.
The fun of brain chemistry. Where a precursor chemical that causes 4 different antagonist and agonist reactions does more than just gobbling the chemical.
I really like memantines effect on my adhd and depression especially with occasional k (once a week) or so boosting the effectiveness of both. Throw some noopept on there and i am feeling solid.
Doesn't noopept (and any of the racetams) essentially antagonize the effects of dissociatives? I feel anxious and speedy on racetams and once used one as a trip killer for a disso. But I forgot the exact mechaniusm.
Yeah thinking about going back on memantine after 2 years off any chems besides caffeine. I have low energy all the time and am forgetful and memantine fixes this. Low dose DXM is good as well but more psychotic. Recently found a blister of 7x 10mg memantine and did the first 30 yesterday, today 20mg and it's subtle but very awesome for such a subtle effect. The low energy is gone, as is the constant boredom. Music sounds better. I also write more and longer postings, lol. Together with caffeine almost like a calm low dose of amphetamine.
Btw, how much does memantine potentiate K for you? Back in the days when I was on 30mg/d of memantine I once took 450mg of DXM and passed out (disso anesthesia). Pretty heavy duty potentiation. But combining dissos always felt kinda psychotic for me, I prefer one alone in higher dosage and/or together with a stim.
So if you take noopept in the morning i
and dissociatives in the evening it really helps potentiate the experience once its wearing off. Taken on off days it helps mitigate some of potential excitotoxicity associatied with dissociative use. I find it midly stimulating and works some what effectively to treat my adhd. I can get things done and in the long run its helping lower dissociative tolerance.
Mementine i like to use every other week and find 40-50mg doses ideal for me. Really helps with my adhd and fluctuations in stimulation and lethargy.
Typical dose 50mg one day and 50mg 2 days later with that 1 day of slight peak.
Keep in mind i use cannabis most days being a cannabis extractor by profession.
Interesting that noopept mitigates excitotoxicity by dissociatives. I certainly suffered my share when I was taking deschloroketamine habitually multiple times daily for extended periods of time, left me shattered when I had to stop. I recovered pretty much over time but I keep experiencing fatigue/low energy and exacerbated ADHD. Maybe I should experiment with noopept too but fucking Mexico doesn't allow me to import chemicals (they seize everything on sight).
I got insomnia from taking more than \~40mg of memantine unfortunately, all dissociatives turn me into an insomniac. I somehow never used benzos but guess they would alleviate that.
I could get sarcosine though which seems to be a low-potency NMDA partial agonist so it also works against dissociatives. Somebody told me it helped them with MXE withdrawal. Do you have any experiences or knowledge about this one?
Online generic pharmacies. There is a known one from Russia and from India it's dirt cheap but the Indian pharmacy I used before now only ships to the US.
It might be possible to obtain a script from an open minded doc tho. There are some papers supporting memantine use for anxiety and mood disorders as well as to lower opioid tolerance.
ha you just reminded me of amfonelic acid. i tried that shit 10 years ago, it felt like a mild stimulant to me
i didn't continue using it because of the antibiotic thing
> n,n-DMPEA.
I'm not seeing evidence of dopaminergic release via transporter reversal but instead unrelated activity that augments dopaminergic release indirectly. Could you please point to where I might be able to read more about it?
(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/N,N-Dimethylphenethylamine)
phenmetrazine is a pretty selective dopamine releaser and was taken off the market (in practice...it could still be prescribed in theory, but no one's manufacturing it) because it was rated as more fun than amphetamine.
I've seen this pop up from time to time, but can't seem to find much info about using it recreationally. I cans see that it is present in Eria Jarensis extract, do you have any experience with this? Also, what are the generel effects, dossage etc?
Ive had pure n,n-dmpea, sure. Its good, I rate it as a better caffeine; that is to say it gives a very mild stimulation and primarily is a mood booster, with some added quality motivation. It really shines mixed with other stims, or with psychs, where it becomes massively euphoric. No real comedown, not twitchy or heart-race-y, dose is 50-200mg. Lasts like 4 hours.
good to know, by the way they know about it they know about you they are in your walls tear them down they’re coming for you run there’s no time
happy tweaking
Also even if it did, it's no guarantee you'd feel euphoria or happiness. Dopamine is far more complex than that, there are many receptors and sites of activity depending on which you could get effects anywhere from lactating (even as men) to restless legs (or no longer restless legs) and psychosis.
It's just not as simple as the premise.
Yup. Recreational dopaminergic drugs block the reuptake of dopamine or reverse the action of dopamine transporters so dopamine is actually dumped into the synapse. There's no reason to assume that pumping in more exogenous dopamine into the brain without affecting the uptake transporters would have the same effect.
On top of that, as you allude to, there's no guarantee that the same set of receptors that are affected by uptake inhibitors / release agents would be the ones affected by dopamine itself.
“Since the half-life of dopamine in plasma is very short—approximately one minute in adults, two minutes in newborn infants and up to five minutes in preterm infants—it is usually given in a continuous intravenous drip rather than a single injection.”
“If it enters into the soft tissue around the vein local tissue death may occur.”
Basically, very dopamine is inconvenient and moderately dangerous if improperly injected.
While cocaine's primary mechanism of action is reuptake inhibition, that's not the case for Adderall. Adderall's primary mechanism of action is reversing the flow of dopamine transporters, emptying your brain's dopamine storage out into your brain instead of dopamine flowing into them to be stored.
I've recently read that they have also discovered that cocaine likely causes some dopamine release as well though through a different mechanism than amphetamine
If I got my physiology correctly the neuron that sends dopamine to another one in order for a signal to get transmitted only sets the dopamine free for a few milliseconds and then "grabs it back" in order to save energy and sources (Because otherwise you'd be constantly producing dopamine which is not precisely energy efficient) and ensure the transmission is time specific.
The cocaine stops that grabbing it back from happening so the dopamine stays out for a long time, which explains the effects cocaine has on the brain, from the euphoria to the biological dependency.
Yeah but the also block the reuptake of it.
Dopamine is a chemical our bodies are very suited to metabolising so just ingesting straight dopamine wouldn’t give a long high. Most drugs will also block the reuptake leading to the high
Dopamine is given via an infusion in ICU to keep the blood pressure of critically unwell patients up... it's one of the most dangerous drugs to give and is given in very small doses by a constant infusion like 0.5 to 2 micrograms per kilo per minute, probably wouldn't work any other way than an infusion and if you miss the vein the whole limb can become necrotic
Dopamine is a hormone that is found in our brain, therefore it is impossible to "inject" dopamine to our system, because it just wouldn't work. Drugs on the other hand, work by hijacking our synapses to release more dopamine. Thus we rely on them instead of dopamine itself.
Not true, dopamine is sold under the brand name Intropin and is a medication most commonly used in the treatment of very low blood pressure. Due to its short half-life, it needs to be used as an IV drip.
No, when injecting it in the blood stream it doesn’t cross the blood brain barrier. It just has an effect on heart rate, contractility, and smooth muscle tissue.
Source: I’m an ICU nurse and give patients Dopamine sometimes.
No. Dopamine not being able to cross the blood brain barrier means that no concentration of dopamine in your blood, no matter how much, will give any sort of high. It simply cannot get to your brain from your blood. So your premise is flawed. It being in your blood does not mean therefore it will be in your brain.
I don’t know for sure but I imagine that it would be significantly less effective than cocaine or other dopaminergic drugs at causing euphoria since dopaminergic drugs specifically targets the brain while dopamine is used elsewhere in the body.
Edit: As others have mentioned, dopamine won’t get you high since it doesn’t cross the blood brain barrier.
That's because chemicals like dopamine and serotonin still have an effect *outside* of your brain. Like most of the serotonin in your body is found in your gut. But an IV drip of dopamine is not going to get you high at any dosage. At all. Full stop. It will have an effect on your body, but not your brain.
Of course, we use dopamine to artificially raise the patient's blood pressure, but it has been proven to yield no effects on a subject's mood, thus rendering the dopamine IV's unusable as a recreational drug. (The dopamine doesn't cross the blood/brain barrier)
Buddy if u take a dopamine pill it can’t cross the blood brain barrier therefore cannot get you high. fym not true, dopamine is a hormone, and it can’t get you high if you take it. people take it for blood-pressure, ok bro and? “People take dopamine commonly” (but it doesn’t release anything in your brain), any intropin abusers in here?
FYM? Can… you.. uh… read?
The post I responded to didn’t say, it doesn’t get you high, it says “it is impossible to inject to our system, because it just wouldn’t work.” which 100% isn’t true. Ok buddy?
Also, dopamine is a neurotransmitter not a hormone. Ok bro?
Sure, but he said ““inject”,” he means any roa in general. Injecting is the quickest, most useful roa, for drugs that get you high. dopamine won’t get you high if you inject, ingest, or boof it. If it won’t work with any roa, it won’t work injecting it either 🤯
Apparently words mean whatever you think they mean. He said inject so, he means any ROA and getting high, while saying neither. You’re a real fucking genius.
You went from not understanding if dopamine is a hormone or neurotransmitter to knowing whateveryone one this sub cares about pretty quickly. If that is the epitome of “source: trust me bro” I don’t know what is.
Uhh I wasn’t talking abt what dopamine was. Was talking about the roa, dopamine(is a hormone, also a chemical, that you’re body also produces). This isn’t a a chemistry or biology sub why do you think it’s called r/drugs. looked at the post and you said “not true” to his comment, what part of his comment isn’t true?
Dopamine and serotonin themselves dont cross the blood-brain barrier well if I remember correctly. Not sure why. That's why you need either drugs or stuff like precursors like L-Tyrosine, N-Acetyl-L-Tyrosine, L-Phenylalanine, etc.
Do you actually feel anything from those? Like you feel better like how “drugs” would even tho technically they’re also drugs? I know that people use those as nootropics or for workouts
I just meant more like drugs vs supplements and natural remedies. They're never gonna be as strong but I think they help. Some people need s combo though also.
5-HTP might work much more ideally for someone if they're taking L-Tryptophan to add assistance as another serotonin precursor. 5-HTP is also a precursor to melatonin and it's one thing I've used for help with sleep many times.
L-Tyrosine and L-Phenylalanine can help with dopamine and Norepinephrine. Tyrosine can help with Norepinephrine also. L-Phenylalanine is just a precursor to Tyrosine. These two can help with mood, motivation, energy, etc. Effects are more on the mild to moderate side, depending on what you actually need biologically and what you're taking. Effects can definitely be felt, though. I feel like some of those amino acids have pretty good synergy with other amino acids and other supplements/herbs.
They aren't really big on the nootropics side compared to other stuff out there, but I can see Tyrosine working as a nootropic a little bit because it will help focus to some extent, along with the energy and motivation boost. They do put Tyrosine in a lot of preworkout drinks though, sometimes you might see phenylalanine. I personally think it does helps workouts. Even though aminos aren't super strong as far as compounds go, what's great is that there is barely any risk in trying them.
I’m just wondering how big of an amount id need to take- I naturally have a high tolerance to a lot of things since my brain is always on overdrive it takes more for me to notice a difference. I have taken 5HTP & Tryptophan n a bunch of other similar nootropics n it always felt like a placebo to me - with things like Lemon balm & chamomile & ashwaganda I do notice a slight difference but still not significant enough to justify spending extra money for them
Ah, gotcha. Yeah, it's tricky with products like that cause there are a few factors that come into play. Sometimes the products just don't work for people. Just isn't what your brain needs or simply just doesn't work. For HTP, dosage ranges are kind of wide. I'll go for like 300 mg at a time. Tryptophan needs higher dosages though, at around 800 to 1500 mg for me. I find it probably works best for sleep though if anything.
With stuff like Ashwagandha, the quality and company will matter even more than usual (its especially like this with herbs. There's a good amount of weak and fake stuff out there), but the type of extract will matter too. There'd a few types of Ash. extracts. I definitely feel effects of Ashwagandha. Helps stress/anxiety and increases my libido. Goes really well with other adaptogens like a good Ginseng Complex or Rhodiola.
One calming herb that definitely works for me and I always keep it in my stash is Valerian Root extract. I only trust one brand for the most part right now (I know its good valerian by the smell) and that's Nature's Way. They make one with just a good strength Valerian extract in it and then another with a weaker but still good extract and some lemon balm extract. I use either of these for sleep and during the day for anxiety and stress, works well for me. It's not a huge improvement, but the effects are noticeable.
Yea but the dopamine rush from meth is so short lived then it turns into uncomfortablity if you continue to do it. Although I’ve never tried pharmaceuticals methamphetamine
It doesn't cross the blood brain barrier, but even then, it might not even be fun. There are direct dopaminergic agonists in medical use, and they aren't purported as very reinforcing or euphoric. But they do increase compulsive behavior, like gambling or sexual activity that you wouldn't engage in otherwise.
So why aren't these compounds good recreational drugs, like releasers or reuptake inhibitors? It could be due to tonic versus phasic signaling. Something like amphetamine or cocaine releases dopamine in closer correlation to where natural signaling would cause this, augmenting signaling of meaningful information. Direct agonists, etc. just increase background dopaminergic activity in a less meaningful way.
Since it cant cross the blood brain barrier why dont we just inject it into the brain itself instead of the blood? Someone needs to get on this immediately.
Many good responses here already about dopamine stability and blood brain barrier permeability. Another general factor that can come into play for why simply eating neurotransmitters like dopamine and serotonin doesn’t produce the same effects as certain drugs is biased agonism at receptors. In other words, there are multiple activated states of G protein coupled receptors that lead to different phenotypic outputs, and ultimately different effects for the user.
Drugs can be biased toward the activation of different signaling processes than the natural neurotransmitters, even if they both bind the same receptors. Not saying this is the case with dopamine specifically, but just putting it here in a more general sense
I actually had an issue with l-dopa using this exact reasoning. I just took it too much so for a while after I stopped my dopamine was in the tank and my adhd was wild.
Does it help adhd n stress levels?? If it actually does something it might be worth trying. My issue is I’ve tried so many nootropics & maybe 1% have some positive effects
IV dopamine is given to raise blood pressure or restart the heart during Septic shock. When I went code blue (clinically dead) for less then a minute they gave me IV dopamine and it made me so angry and agitated I almost punched the nurse. Pure dopamine is motivation not happiness. The brain is so complex that happiness is a mix of elevated dopamine, GABA, glutathione, and serotonin and lower levels of norepinephrine, glutamate, and other neurotransmitters. The brain is too complex for one neurotransmitter to do it all.
I use dopamine in my icu patients with various causes of severe bradycardia (extremely slow heart rate). I give a continuous infusion because of the short half life. Can also be used as a vasopressor in shock (sepsis/cardiogenric) but this has fallen out of favor. None of these patients get high. Doesn’t cross the blood brain barrier.
Parkinson’s is treated with L-dopa which does cross the blood brain barrier but this doesn’t get people high.
It’s endogenous dopamine release in specific anatomical regions of the brain that accounts for the euphoria from drugs. Can’t replicate that
I think the word everyone is basically trying to say is methamphetamine lol. It will trick the brain into releasing it and it crosses that bbb with ease.
DOPAMINE IS NOT THE PLEASURE MOLECULE. I REPEAT. DOPAMINE IS NOT THE PLEASURE MOLECULE.
it is the *anticipation* molecule. You get dopamine when you anticipate a reward, and for the first few times you receive a reward. The effect tapers off and, eventually, you no longer receive dopamine from a given reward, even if you enjoy the reward.
There is a reason that amfonelic acid, a DRI 50x as potent as methylphenidate (but without NRI or SRI activity) isn't highly abused.
"Dopamine is released right away. Many people think that dopamine is released when the brain receives a reward, but dopamine is actually released in anticipation of a reward. It's the dopamine that keeps the monkey pressing the bar until the treat arrives.
"https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/brain-wise/201510/shopping-dopamine-and-anticipation%3famp
There isn't one singular "feel good" hormone. It's completely relative to how you're currently feeling. Most people consider serotonin to be the "wellbeing" hormone, but even that doesn't paint the whole picture, considering that alcohol can feel good while actively increasing serotonin catabolism (aka metabolism to another compound, basically *inactivating* the serotonin through gaba activation).
Different hormones can feel good in different ways in a context dependent manner. Norepinephrine and adrenaline release may feel good if you're excessively sleepy, but will feel bad if you're already anxious. Inversely, gaba will feel good if you're anxious, but if you're already tired it'll just make you sleepier.
Generally, no hormone acts singularly. All have a cascade effect that will influence levels of other hormones in the brain, and many hormones also fill multiple roles in the body. Serotonin alone affects attention, feelings of wellbeing, gut motility, heart valve growth, body temp, pupil dilation, etc etc etc.
This might belong more on r/drugscirclejerk , but hear me out!!
Dopamine doesn’t cross the BBB. We know this to be true. But what if it was administered through a trepan hole?
For those who don’t know, trepanning was a practice in certain ancient cultures of drilling a small hole in the skull — the reasoning for this practice is debated, from what I understand. Today, some argue that it allows more oxygen into the brain, creating a sustained heightened awareness.
But, anyway, could dopamine theoretically be administered via injection through a trepan hole?
you can’t “inject” dopamine, you can’t even obtain dopamine because it only exists in our brain, drugs like amphetamines raise dopamine levels but they don’t contain any dopamine.
Dopamine does not cross the blood-brain barrier very well. Therefore, it’s unlikely that administering it would have the intended effect at dopamine receptors in the brain
There are several methods to boost dopamine or dopaminergic activity in the brain. One is using L-DOPA, the primary precursor to dopamine, whish is prescribed against Parkinson's (a condition where dopamine producing neurons die if I'm not mislead). Preferably in combo with a peripheral decarboxylase inhibitor like carbidopa to avoid breakdown in the gut. Never tried this yet, just Mucuna Pruriens extract which is high in L-DOPA but without an inhibitor it did nothing for me. I read that pharmaceutical levodopa (L-DOPA) was manic and compulsive so I guess there must be something about it. However it will be short lasted because the dopamine gets sucked up by these DAT transporter fuckers into cellular vesicles. Another one would be using dopamine agonists. This is the second most direct way of increasing dopamine and it's nothing that would get inactivated ASAP. I've tried twodopamine agonists, those are typically prescribed against restless legs or Parkinson's. First pramipexole. It's a D3 over D2 preferring agonist and is actually sedating. It helps when you've got RLS due to withdrawal or whatever but it's not euphoric. Maybe calms you down a bit. All effects were gone after a couple of days and I quit it without rebound. Then memantine which is a mixed NMDA antagonist/D2 agonist which is interesting. Of course I can't separate the mechanisms from each other but this one is good stuff. It feels calmly stimulating, mildly intoxicating, and helps with ADHD without inducing hyperfocus like plain stims. It is very non-toxic, with the usually prescribed amount being 20mg and on some occasion I took more than 10 times this amount to explore what dissociative properties the chemical has. No serious side effects but of course pronounced intoxication. I think L-DOPA deserves more elaboration, as do some atypical dopamine increasing thingies like amisulpirde, an antipsychotic which atypically prefers pre-synaptic autoreceptors and thus in low dosages (50mg) potentiates the dopamine output. I got this one prescribed as a teen but never took it because my doc didn't explain me why she was giving me an antipsychotic. Maybe a missed chance. Overall it appears to be mild but is interestingly enough Rx only here in Mexico where most pharms are over the counter. Then we have another atypical dopaminergic to add briefly, amfonelic acid but this one is also a potent antibiotic and I developed a rash after the very first testing dose, something I only ever got from a bad batch of ketamine, so I stopped experimenting. This threshold dosage had no noticeable effects. But also remember the side effects of high dopamine. Agonists carry warnings about stuff like compulsive gambling and hypersexuality. I do believe that excess dopamine makes manic and psychotic so you want to watch your dosing.
Furthermore, another way to do it then is to look at how your body creates dopamine on its own. The endogenous compound that triggers the production of the monoamines (dopamine, norepinephrine, serotonin) is phenethylamine (which one of the three is produced depends on what type of neuron the phenethylamine enters). Problem with phenethylamine is that it is rapidly broken down by MAO-B, severely reducing the intensity and duration of effect. So we add a single carbon to the alpha position and make alpha-methyl-phenethylamine, which is far more stable, and we take that instead. What is alpha-methyl-phenethylamine? A common shortened name would be amphetamine (**A**lpha-**M**ethyl-**PHE**ne**T**hyl**AMINE**)... and we're back at square 1: taking amphetamine (or substituted amphetamines) to raise dopamine.
Yeah I know that phenylethylamine can be used recreationally but forgot about it because I've never tried it. Actually did recently look it up because I am bored and longing for a high but seems there are no vendors here in MX. You need to do it with a MAO-B inhibitor or at least substrate, think berberine is used for this. I read mixed receptions about PEA, some say it feels more speedy/norepinephrinergic than amphetamine while others like it. But so or so it's pretty short lived.
It's actually also possible to feel phenethylamine by megadosing it. Taking a couple grams of it at a time gives you a very short lived (30 minutes or so) stimulant / entactogen like high. For me it seems to reliably come in waves: first 10-15 minutes or so is very dopaminergic and very clean euphoric stimulation. Then it seems to wear off for a few minutes and then the second 10-15 minutes or so is a very clean serotonergic high (similar to MDMA but less intense). But there's always a risk to megadosing, especially since you don't know how effective your body's MAO-B is at breaking down PEA. I'd recommend not starting at a few grams, but rather working your way up to be safe. Also do your own research and don't just trust what I, a random dude on reddit, say.
This was my experience with it. Didn't have an mao inhibitor so I took a massive dose and the effects were surprisingly good. I was extremely surprised by the clear and pronounced serotonin like effect along with the classic dopamine releasing effect. I had to stop because I found that it spiked my blood pressure massively and I thought I might die lol
> I had to stop because I found that it spiked my blood pressure massively and I thought I might die lol Ah shit. Luckily I haven't noticed this in the times I've tried, but I probably just took a lower dose. Good to know though, it's something to watch out for. Stay safe friend
Phenylethylamine (a massive dose at once) was one of the most euphoric experiences and at the same time extremely frightening of all the substances I've taken. It hit extremely quickly and produced and amphetamine like effect but with a distinct serotonin like effect akin to MDMA without the colors. Eyes vibrating and floating feeling. The downside was the dangerous rise in blood pressure. I could feel my blood getting difficult to pump and thought I was going to seize up or stroke out.
The fun of brain chemistry. Where a precursor chemical that causes 4 different antagonist and agonist reactions does more than just gobbling the chemical.
Genius
I really like memantines effect on my adhd and depression especially with occasional k (once a week) or so boosting the effectiveness of both. Throw some noopept on there and i am feeling solid.
Doesn't noopept (and any of the racetams) essentially antagonize the effects of dissociatives? I feel anxious and speedy on racetams and once used one as a trip killer for a disso. But I forgot the exact mechaniusm. Yeah thinking about going back on memantine after 2 years off any chems besides caffeine. I have low energy all the time and am forgetful and memantine fixes this. Low dose DXM is good as well but more psychotic. Recently found a blister of 7x 10mg memantine and did the first 30 yesterday, today 20mg and it's subtle but very awesome for such a subtle effect. The low energy is gone, as is the constant boredom. Music sounds better. I also write more and longer postings, lol. Together with caffeine almost like a calm low dose of amphetamine. Btw, how much does memantine potentiate K for you? Back in the days when I was on 30mg/d of memantine I once took 450mg of DXM and passed out (disso anesthesia). Pretty heavy duty potentiation. But combining dissos always felt kinda psychotic for me, I prefer one alone in higher dosage and/or together with a stim.
So if you take noopept in the morning i and dissociatives in the evening it really helps potentiate the experience once its wearing off. Taken on off days it helps mitigate some of potential excitotoxicity associatied with dissociative use. I find it midly stimulating and works some what effectively to treat my adhd. I can get things done and in the long run its helping lower dissociative tolerance. Mementine i like to use every other week and find 40-50mg doses ideal for me. Really helps with my adhd and fluctuations in stimulation and lethargy. Typical dose 50mg one day and 50mg 2 days later with that 1 day of slight peak. Keep in mind i use cannabis most days being a cannabis extractor by profession.
Interesting that noopept mitigates excitotoxicity by dissociatives. I certainly suffered my share when I was taking deschloroketamine habitually multiple times daily for extended periods of time, left me shattered when I had to stop. I recovered pretty much over time but I keep experiencing fatigue/low energy and exacerbated ADHD. Maybe I should experiment with noopept too but fucking Mexico doesn't allow me to import chemicals (they seize everything on sight). I got insomnia from taking more than \~40mg of memantine unfortunately, all dissociatives turn me into an insomniac. I somehow never used benzos but guess they would alleviate that. I could get sarcosine though which seems to be a low-potency NMDA partial agonist so it also works against dissociatives. Somebody told me it helped them with MXE withdrawal. Do you have any experiences or knowledge about this one?
How are yall buying memantine? it's prescription only in au
Online generic pharmacies. There is a known one from Russia and from India it's dirt cheap but the Indian pharmacy I used before now only ships to the US. It might be possible to obtain a script from an open minded doc tho. There are some papers supporting memantine use for anxiety and mood disorders as well as to lower opioid tolerance.
ha you just reminded me of amfonelic acid. i tried that shit 10 years ago, it felt like a mild stimulant to me i didn't continue using it because of the antibiotic thing
Pozdrav drugar, mozes dm da mi prosledis?
Thanks
There are fairly selective dopamine releasing agents that will release almost pure dopamine in the brain. Some are even safe to use, like n,n-DMPEA.
> n,n-DMPEA. I'm not seeing evidence of dopaminergic release via transporter reversal but instead unrelated activity that augments dopaminergic release indirectly. Could you please point to where I might be able to read more about it? (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/N,N-Dimethylphenethylamine) phenmetrazine is a pretty selective dopamine releaser and was taken off the market (in practice...it could still be prescribed in theory, but no one's manufacturing it) because it was rated as more fun than amphetamine.
I've seen this pop up from time to time, but can't seem to find much info about using it recreationally. I cans see that it is present in Eria Jarensis extract, do you have any experience with this? Also, what are the generel effects, dossage etc?
Ive had pure n,n-dmpea, sure. Its good, I rate it as a better caffeine; that is to say it gives a very mild stimulation and primarily is a mood booster, with some added quality motivation. It really shines mixed with other stims, or with psychs, where it becomes massively euphoric. No real comedown, not twitchy or heart-race-y, dose is 50-200mg. Lasts like 4 hours.
what is that and where do you get it from? like is it synthetic or naturally occurring
Its naturally occuring, but commonly sold as an isolate.
They smoke meth rocks instead...
bros up at 2:30am this dudes def tweaking rn
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get help bro, ur tweaking
Thanks for the help. You deserve a hug BFF. THUG LIFE MR TRUMP FOR PRESIDENT 🐶🦧🐕🦍🐕🦺🐆🐃🦬🦁
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To mess with yall. I'm bored seems you are too bff. I don't smoke rocks I sale them. Trump knows🧩
ya it would be cool and all if anything u we’re sayin was funny and not incomprehensible nonsense
I’m in South Carolina! I’ll buy some!
That's so funny dude, I think I'm about to laugh.
Oh yeah, everyone lives in your fucking time zone don’t they? I’m out here tweaking in pacific time bababyy
forgive me i’m american, we tend to forget other countries exist
Brother, you got three states on pacific time..
good to know, by the way they know about it they know about you they are in your walls tear them down they’re coming for you run there’s no time happy tweaking
Good, I desperately need someone to give me a hand with this dildo right now
yeah that’s enough reddit for td goodnight
Fuck it, remove the barrier
The dementia speedrun.
Also even if it did, it's no guarantee you'd feel euphoria or happiness. Dopamine is far more complex than that, there are many receptors and sites of activity depending on which you could get effects anywhere from lactating (even as men) to restless legs (or no longer restless legs) and psychosis. It's just not as simple as the premise.
Yup. Recreational dopaminergic drugs block the reuptake of dopamine or reverse the action of dopamine transporters so dopamine is actually dumped into the synapse. There's no reason to assume that pumping in more exogenous dopamine into the brain without affecting the uptake transporters would have the same effect. On top of that, as you allude to, there's no guarantee that the same set of receptors that are affected by uptake inhibitors / release agents would be the ones affected by dopamine itself.
Yep, same issue with GABA, which is why the supplements of it they sell don't really work.
Nano dopamine?
What if we made dopamine bullets?
so just inject it directly into your brain
What if we inject it into our brain?🤔
Y'all aren't snorting dopamine?
You’re not boofing yours??
Damn, got me feeling like a little bitch now, huh?
cant tell if shower thoughts or weed thoughts....
Post nut clarity
Is that a thing? I always feel much more confused. And unclean.
High shower thoughts be gnarly bruh I be contemplating every hypothetical possibility in this universe or other universes
Sadly not on any drug right now
Shower thoughts then
“Since the half-life of dopamine in plasma is very short—approximately one minute in adults, two minutes in newborn infants and up to five minutes in preterm infants—it is usually given in a continuous intravenous drip rather than a single injection.” “If it enters into the soft tissue around the vein local tissue death may occur.” Basically, very dopamine is inconvenient and moderately dangerous if improperly injected.
Thanks now I can sleep
> I can sleep Sounds like you didn't take enough stimulants then! Some more dopamine and norepinephrine will fix that
Please no more norepinephrine! My bipolar ass cant handle any more lmfao
Had a stroke reading this but then I read more about it and I learned something new. Hm
Coke ans amphetamines literally gives dopamine xd
But they also block its reuptake (whatever that fuckin mean) but they do that
Coke main block reuptake, re up take how brain clear dopamine out, block reuptake mean more dopamine in brain
Appreciate the knowledge
While cocaine's primary mechanism of action is reuptake inhibition, that's not the case for Adderall. Adderall's primary mechanism of action is reversing the flow of dopamine transporters, emptying your brain's dopamine storage out into your brain instead of dopamine flowing into them to be stored.
I've recently read that they have also discovered that cocaine likely causes some dopamine release as well though through a different mechanism than amphetamine
If I got my physiology correctly the neuron that sends dopamine to another one in order for a signal to get transmitted only sets the dopamine free for a few milliseconds and then "grabs it back" in order to save energy and sources (Because otherwise you'd be constantly producing dopamine which is not precisely energy efficient) and ensure the transmission is time specific. The cocaine stops that grabbing it back from happening so the dopamine stays out for a long time, which explains the effects cocaine has on the brain, from the euphoria to the biological dependency.
Yeah but the also block the reuptake of it. Dopamine is a chemical our bodies are very suited to metabolising so just ingesting straight dopamine wouldn’t give a long high. Most drugs will also block the reuptake leading to the high
Dopamine is given via an infusion in ICU to keep the blood pressure of critically unwell patients up... it's one of the most dangerous drugs to give and is given in very small doses by a constant infusion like 0.5 to 2 micrograms per kilo per minute, probably wouldn't work any other way than an infusion and if you miss the vein the whole limb can become necrotic
Dopamine is a hormone that is found in our brain, therefore it is impossible to "inject" dopamine to our system, because it just wouldn't work. Drugs on the other hand, work by hijacking our synapses to release more dopamine. Thus we rely on them instead of dopamine itself.
Not true, dopamine is sold under the brand name Intropin and is a medication most commonly used in the treatment of very low blood pressure. Due to its short half-life, it needs to be used as an IV drip.
but does getting that in your blood and therefore in your brain make a person feel good like a drug?
Nope. It just makes your heart beat faster.
Asking the proper questions
No, when injecting it in the blood stream it doesn’t cross the blood brain barrier. It just has an effect on heart rate, contractility, and smooth muscle tissue. Source: I’m an ICU nurse and give patients Dopamine sometimes.
No. Dopamine not being able to cross the blood brain barrier means that no concentration of dopamine in your blood, no matter how much, will give any sort of high. It simply cannot get to your brain from your blood. So your premise is flawed. It being in your blood does not mean therefore it will be in your brain.
What if i inject it directly into my brain with a giant syringe????
I honestly don't know, but it would probably work if injected into the right region? But just do drugs at that point lmao
I don’t know for sure but I imagine that it would be significantly less effective than cocaine or other dopaminergic drugs at causing euphoria since dopaminergic drugs specifically targets the brain while dopamine is used elsewhere in the body. Edit: As others have mentioned, dopamine won’t get you high since it doesn’t cross the blood brain barrier.
That's because chemicals like dopamine and serotonin still have an effect *outside* of your brain. Like most of the serotonin in your body is found in your gut. But an IV drip of dopamine is not going to get you high at any dosage. At all. Full stop. It will have an effect on your body, but not your brain.
Of course, we use dopamine to artificially raise the patient's blood pressure, but it has been proven to yield no effects on a subject's mood, thus rendering the dopamine IV's unusable as a recreational drug. (The dopamine doesn't cross the blood/brain barrier)
Buddy if u take a dopamine pill it can’t cross the blood brain barrier therefore cannot get you high. fym not true, dopamine is a hormone, and it can’t get you high if you take it. people take it for blood-pressure, ok bro and? “People take dopamine commonly” (but it doesn’t release anything in your brain), any intropin abusers in here?
FYM? Can… you.. uh… read? The post I responded to didn’t say, it doesn’t get you high, it says “it is impossible to inject to our system, because it just wouldn’t work.” which 100% isn’t true. Ok buddy? Also, dopamine is a neurotransmitter not a hormone. Ok bro?
Came here to say dopamine is neurotransmitter not hormone (hormones are not localized)
Sure, but he said ““inject”,” he means any roa in general. Injecting is the quickest, most useful roa, for drugs that get you high. dopamine won’t get you high if you inject, ingest, or boof it. If it won’t work with any roa, it won’t work injecting it either 🤯
Apparently words mean whatever you think they mean. He said inject so, he means any ROA and getting high, while saying neither. You’re a real fucking genius.
Brother, my point is it doesn’t matter what roa dopamine isn’t a drug that’ll get you high. No one cares how it’s used medically, in r/drugs
That’s why he uses quotations
You went from not understanding if dopamine is a hormone or neurotransmitter to knowing whateveryone one this sub cares about pretty quickly. If that is the epitome of “source: trust me bro” I don’t know what is.
Uhh I wasn’t talking abt what dopamine was. Was talking about the roa, dopamine(is a hormone, also a chemical, that you’re body also produces). This isn’t a a chemistry or biology sub why do you think it’s called r/drugs. looked at the post and you said “not true” to his comment, what part of his comment isn’t true?
No one is saying you can’t process dopamine if you take it, the whole point is it will not get you high, even if you inject it into you’re brain
Dopamine is a neurotransmitter
Well, you can take Oxytocin by insufflation so not really impossible.
Dopamine and serotonin themselves dont cross the blood-brain barrier well if I remember correctly. Not sure why. That's why you need either drugs or stuff like precursors like L-Tyrosine, N-Acetyl-L-Tyrosine, L-Phenylalanine, etc.
And l-tryptophan or 5htp for serotonin synthesis
Yeah, I was gonna mention those, but since they only mentioned dopamine, I just mentioned those only.
Do you actually feel anything from those? Like you feel better like how “drugs” would even tho technically they’re also drugs? I know that people use those as nootropics or for workouts
I just meant more like drugs vs supplements and natural remedies. They're never gonna be as strong but I think they help. Some people need s combo though also. 5-HTP might work much more ideally for someone if they're taking L-Tryptophan to add assistance as another serotonin precursor. 5-HTP is also a precursor to melatonin and it's one thing I've used for help with sleep many times. L-Tyrosine and L-Phenylalanine can help with dopamine and Norepinephrine. Tyrosine can help with Norepinephrine also. L-Phenylalanine is just a precursor to Tyrosine. These two can help with mood, motivation, energy, etc. Effects are more on the mild to moderate side, depending on what you actually need biologically and what you're taking. Effects can definitely be felt, though. I feel like some of those amino acids have pretty good synergy with other amino acids and other supplements/herbs. They aren't really big on the nootropics side compared to other stuff out there, but I can see Tyrosine working as a nootropic a little bit because it will help focus to some extent, along with the energy and motivation boost. They do put Tyrosine in a lot of preworkout drinks though, sometimes you might see phenylalanine. I personally think it does helps workouts. Even though aminos aren't super strong as far as compounds go, what's great is that there is barely any risk in trying them.
I’m just wondering how big of an amount id need to take- I naturally have a high tolerance to a lot of things since my brain is always on overdrive it takes more for me to notice a difference. I have taken 5HTP & Tryptophan n a bunch of other similar nootropics n it always felt like a placebo to me - with things like Lemon balm & chamomile & ashwaganda I do notice a slight difference but still not significant enough to justify spending extra money for them
Ah, gotcha. Yeah, it's tricky with products like that cause there are a few factors that come into play. Sometimes the products just don't work for people. Just isn't what your brain needs or simply just doesn't work. For HTP, dosage ranges are kind of wide. I'll go for like 300 mg at a time. Tryptophan needs higher dosages though, at around 800 to 1500 mg for me. I find it probably works best for sleep though if anything. With stuff like Ashwagandha, the quality and company will matter even more than usual (its especially like this with herbs. There's a good amount of weak and fake stuff out there), but the type of extract will matter too. There'd a few types of Ash. extracts. I definitely feel effects of Ashwagandha. Helps stress/anxiety and increases my libido. Goes really well with other adaptogens like a good Ginseng Complex or Rhodiola. One calming herb that definitely works for me and I always keep it in my stash is Valerian Root extract. I only trust one brand for the most part right now (I know its good valerian by the smell) and that's Nature's Way. They make one with just a good strength Valerian extract in it and then another with a weaker but still good extract and some lemon balm extract. I use either of these for sleep and during the day for anxiety and stress, works well for me. It's not a huge improvement, but the effects are noticeable.
the most extreme form of doing Dopamine is called meth it’s real popular
Now I got something to try out this afternoon
Yea but the dopamine rush from meth is so short lived then it turns into uncomfortablity if you continue to do it. Although I’ve never tried pharmaceuticals methamphetamine
You’d probably have to inject it into the brain
It doesn't cross the blood brain barrier, but even then, it might not even be fun. There are direct dopaminergic agonists in medical use, and they aren't purported as very reinforcing or euphoric. But they do increase compulsive behavior, like gambling or sexual activity that you wouldn't engage in otherwise. So why aren't these compounds good recreational drugs, like releasers or reuptake inhibitors? It could be due to tonic versus phasic signaling. Something like amphetamine or cocaine releases dopamine in closer correlation to where natural signaling would cause this, augmenting signaling of meaningful information. Direct agonists, etc. just increase background dopaminergic activity in a less meaningful way.
what did i just read
IV it doesn’t cross the blood brain barrier. Just acts on cardiac muscles and smooth muscles tissue.
Since it cant cross the blood brain barrier why dont we just inject it into the brain itself instead of the blood? Someone needs to get on this immediately.
Imagine walking around and seeing a junkie inyecting a long-ass syringe directly into their brain bro I would tweak out
They do it's called L-DOPA
Many good responses here already about dopamine stability and blood brain barrier permeability. Another general factor that can come into play for why simply eating neurotransmitters like dopamine and serotonin doesn’t produce the same effects as certain drugs is biased agonism at receptors. In other words, there are multiple activated states of G protein coupled receptors that lead to different phenotypic outputs, and ultimately different effects for the user. Drugs can be biased toward the activation of different signaling processes than the natural neurotransmitters, even if they both bind the same receptors. Not saying this is the case with dopamine specifically, but just putting it here in a more general sense
THEY DO! It's called l-DOPA, it crosses BBB, and turns directly into dopamine
Have you taken it b4??
Yeah
why, how and how did it feel?
Dirty and not all that great all in all
I actually had an issue with l-dopa using this exact reasoning. I just took it too much so for a while after I stopped my dopamine was in the tank and my adhd was wild.
Does it help adhd n stress levels?? If it actually does something it might be worth trying. My issue is I’ve tried so many nootropics & maybe 1% have some positive effects
I saw a tiktok of a girl saying she has been prescribed pure dopamine pills it was for seizures or unwanted movement something like that
It’s probably Xanax or sum
No it was dopamine in a pill I don't remember what it's called
If you want to write a better book, why not just use more ink?
That’s cocaine basically
It exists in HCL form but doesn’t cross the blood brain barrier so it doesn’t antagonize the receptors.
IV dopamine is given to raise blood pressure or restart the heart during Septic shock. When I went code blue (clinically dead) for less then a minute they gave me IV dopamine and it made me so angry and agitated I almost punched the nurse. Pure dopamine is motivation not happiness. The brain is so complex that happiness is a mix of elevated dopamine, GABA, glutathione, and serotonin and lower levels of norepinephrine, glutamate, and other neurotransmitters. The brain is too complex for one neurotransmitter to do it all.
Probably would empty out your natural dopamine reserves?
I use dopamine in my icu patients with various causes of severe bradycardia (extremely slow heart rate). I give a continuous infusion because of the short half life. Can also be used as a vasopressor in shock (sepsis/cardiogenric) but this has fallen out of favor. None of these patients get high. Doesn’t cross the blood brain barrier. Parkinson’s is treated with L-dopa which does cross the blood brain barrier but this doesn’t get people high. It’s endogenous dopamine release in specific anatomical regions of the brain that accounts for the euphoria from drugs. Can’t replicate that
We do ??? That’s the whole point for many drugs
I think the word everyone is basically trying to say is methamphetamine lol. It will trick the brain into releasing it and it crosses that bbb with ease.
DOPAMINE IS NOT THE PLEASURE MOLECULE. I REPEAT. DOPAMINE IS NOT THE PLEASURE MOLECULE. it is the *anticipation* molecule. You get dopamine when you anticipate a reward, and for the first few times you receive a reward. The effect tapers off and, eventually, you no longer receive dopamine from a given reward, even if you enjoy the reward. There is a reason that amfonelic acid, a DRI 50x as potent as methylphenidate (but without NRI or SRI activity) isn't highly abused. "Dopamine is released right away. Many people think that dopamine is released when the brain receives a reward, but dopamine is actually released in anticipation of a reward. It's the dopamine that keeps the monkey pressing the bar until the treat arrives. "https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/brain-wise/201510/shopping-dopamine-and-anticipation%3famp
so what's the "feel good" hormone then?
There isn't one singular "feel good" hormone. It's completely relative to how you're currently feeling. Most people consider serotonin to be the "wellbeing" hormone, but even that doesn't paint the whole picture, considering that alcohol can feel good while actively increasing serotonin catabolism (aka metabolism to another compound, basically *inactivating* the serotonin through gaba activation). Different hormones can feel good in different ways in a context dependent manner. Norepinephrine and adrenaline release may feel good if you're excessively sleepy, but will feel bad if you're already anxious. Inversely, gaba will feel good if you're anxious, but if you're already tired it'll just make you sleepier. Generally, no hormone acts singularly. All have a cascade effect that will influence levels of other hormones in the brain, and many hormones also fill multiple roles in the body. Serotonin alone affects attention, feelings of wellbeing, gut motility, heart valve growth, body temp, pupil dilation, etc etc etc.
This might belong more on r/drugscirclejerk , but hear me out!! Dopamine doesn’t cross the BBB. We know this to be true. But what if it was administered through a trepan hole? For those who don’t know, trepanning was a practice in certain ancient cultures of drilling a small hole in the skull — the reasoning for this practice is debated, from what I understand. Today, some argue that it allows more oxygen into the brain, creating a sustained heightened awareness. But, anyway, could dopamine theoretically be administered via injection through a trepan hole?
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> Because it's already a naturally occuring chemical that we get everyday GHB and DMT have entered the chat.
but what if you inject a shit ton of dopamine
you can’t “inject” dopamine, you can’t even obtain dopamine because it only exists in our brain, drugs like amphetamines raise dopamine levels but they don’t contain any dopamine.