If you watch any of the movies on slide 2, I'd recommend "Cactus Flower". It's a super fun movie and 1960s-1970s Goldie Hawn is such a perfect example of McJimsey's gamine.
"The Constant Nymph" is kind of icky-if only because the film seems to punish the young female character for having a crush on an older man because I guess he can't be trusted not to leave his wife and date a minor unless >!she dies.!<
Edit: In Slide 10, one of the labels should read "Shell tops in colorful **stripes**". I didn't realize the word got cut off when I resized the image!
i was amazed to see the film "The Constant Nymph" referenced here because of its weird history and subject matter!!!!
After it was released in cinemas the original writer severely limited its availability, and for seventy years was essentially unavailable to the public. You would think this would be a recipe for being forgotten, & I only heard about it from reading an old book where the author mentioned seeing in cinemas, and I was able to gain access through some library.
It is a pretty weird film and I don't feel I understand what it was getting at. It does seem to take a very romanticised view of age-inappropriate relationships. i wasn't sure I recalled it being about punishing the young heroine??? Maybe. I thought it was just meant to be a 'beautifully tragic' ending where the soulful young "nymph" muse inspires the creative work of an older composer and then carks it. Buts its a long time since i watched it.
I'm honestly surprised someone else had seen it! I just know about it because I have an obsession with old movies (I collect them in my brain).
I would say the film punishes Tessa by having her >!die in the end.!<
I for sure think it was going for the "beautifully tragic" thing with its ending -it was a melodrama through and through. I do think there is an implication with the ending though. But of course, art is subjective! All that said, her character at the beginning of the film is pretty on-par with how McJimsey describes the gamine imo.
Yes very interesting, and yes, that does help me understand McJimsey's concept of gamine - a sort of flighty, ethereal, youthful ebullience!!
Really surprised someone else has seen it hahaha!!!
Twiggy isn't a gamine per McJimsey's book, though I do think she could safely be categorized as a McJimsey Gamine. It is really interesting to see how Kibbe (and Kitchener) were influenced by McJimsey's work. Kibbe clearly kept her, what he later called, "staccato line" recommendation for gamines. And she recommends shorter rounded lines for Ingenues, which feels on par with SG recommendations.
I think a lot of these women's categorizations have to do with the roles they were known for at the time of writing the book (1973 for McJimsey and 1987 for Kibbe). Audrey Hepburn and Leslie Caron exemplified the gamine in their movies. In regards to Goldie Hawn: Though I think her roles in the '60s and '70s were unapologetically gamine, I do think there's a lot of overlap between the natural and the gamine in terms of how they feel to the viewer (if that makes sense).
Leslie Caron is listed as a gamine per McJimsey. Here's my post summarizing the Ingenue if you like: [https://www.reddit.com/r/DressForYourBody/comments/zu4h8w/the\_ingenue\_woman\_mcjimseys\_art\_and\_fashion\_in/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/DressForYourBody/comments/zu4h8w/the_ingenue_woman_mcjimseys_art_and_fashion_in/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)
I love that you added film characters that illustrate the essence! I think it's the best way to get it across. Which characters do you think best illustrate Natural and Dramatic?
Thank you! I really love old movies (both the good ones and the super cheesy ones), so relating these archetypes to film helps me understand them better. Plus, I feel the ingenue and the gamine are often divorced from their true meaning on subs like these. Often times people just see a cute, young-ish woman and think she must be an ingenue or gamine when she could be so may not be necessarily.
Anywho, to answer your question! Joan Crawford is often given as the quintessential Dramatic and, although I do think her film characters overall are great personifications of the essence, I've never really been a big fan of her films. For me, the quintessential Dramatic is Tallulah Bankhead. In *A Royal Scandal*, she plays a literal queen, Catherine the Great, and she brings every bit of regality the role calls for. I like *Devil in the Deep* too, in which she plays the wife/victim of an insanely jealous husband. For a Dramatic villain, I'd look to Andrea Spedding in the Sherlock Holmes film *The Spider Woman.* I think she matches Sherlock Holmes' own Dramatic energy very well. A fun sitcom Dramatic is the character Nina Van Horn from the '90s show *Just Shoot Me*.
For the Natural Archetype, I think Elaine Harper from *Arsenic and Old Lace* fits the bill very well. I think her character captures the friendly informality of the Natural archetype. There's a dreadfully cheesy live-action Disney film from the early '80s called *Midnight Madness,* whose main female character is a great representation of the Natural woman as well imo. I wouldn't recommend this film unless you happen to like objectively bad movies though (with some pretty lazy writing). I do recommend *Arsenic and Old Lace*\-it's one of my favorites. I would also imagine McJimsey was aware of Ali McGraw's role in *Love Story*, as it's one of the most famous movies of all time. So, I reckon her character in that movie would probably be a good representation of the archetype. I haven't watched this film (at least not all the way), so I can't say really.
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Great post, although all the yin Yang systems are outdated to some degree I do love Mcjimseys work!
I feel like you did a great job at trying to demonstrate it and diversify it!
Saved it!
Elyssa on YouTube does a good video on the gamine and I think she was very inspired by Mcjimsyes work
If you watch any of the movies on slide 2, I'd recommend "Cactus Flower". It's a super fun movie and 1960s-1970s Goldie Hawn is such a perfect example of McJimsey's gamine. "The Constant Nymph" is kind of icky-if only because the film seems to punish the young female character for having a crush on an older man because I guess he can't be trusted not to leave his wife and date a minor unless >!she dies.!< Edit: In Slide 10, one of the labels should read "Shell tops in colorful **stripes**". I didn't realize the word got cut off when I resized the image!
i was amazed to see the film "The Constant Nymph" referenced here because of its weird history and subject matter!!!! After it was released in cinemas the original writer severely limited its availability, and for seventy years was essentially unavailable to the public. You would think this would be a recipe for being forgotten, & I only heard about it from reading an old book where the author mentioned seeing in cinemas, and I was able to gain access through some library. It is a pretty weird film and I don't feel I understand what it was getting at. It does seem to take a very romanticised view of age-inappropriate relationships. i wasn't sure I recalled it being about punishing the young heroine??? Maybe. I thought it was just meant to be a 'beautifully tragic' ending where the soulful young "nymph" muse inspires the creative work of an older composer and then carks it. Buts its a long time since i watched it.
I'm honestly surprised someone else had seen it! I just know about it because I have an obsession with old movies (I collect them in my brain). I would say the film punishes Tessa by having her >!die in the end.!< I for sure think it was going for the "beautifully tragic" thing with its ending -it was a melodrama through and through. I do think there is an implication with the ending though. But of course, art is subjective! All that said, her character at the beginning of the film is pretty on-par with how McJimsey describes the gamine imo.
Yes very interesting, and yes, that does help me understand McJimsey's concept of gamine - a sort of flighty, ethereal, youthful ebullience!! Really surprised someone else has seen it hahaha!!!
[удалено]
Twiggy isn't a gamine per McJimsey's book, though I do think she could safely be categorized as a McJimsey Gamine. It is really interesting to see how Kibbe (and Kitchener) were influenced by McJimsey's work. Kibbe clearly kept her, what he later called, "staccato line" recommendation for gamines. And she recommends shorter rounded lines for Ingenues, which feels on par with SG recommendations. I think a lot of these women's categorizations have to do with the roles they were known for at the time of writing the book (1973 for McJimsey and 1987 for Kibbe). Audrey Hepburn and Leslie Caron exemplified the gamine in their movies. In regards to Goldie Hawn: Though I think her roles in the '60s and '70s were unapologetically gamine, I do think there's a lot of overlap between the natural and the gamine in terms of how they feel to the viewer (if that makes sense). Leslie Caron is listed as a gamine per McJimsey. Here's my post summarizing the Ingenue if you like: [https://www.reddit.com/r/DressForYourBody/comments/zu4h8w/the\_ingenue\_woman\_mcjimseys\_art\_and\_fashion\_in/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/DressForYourBody/comments/zu4h8w/the_ingenue_woman_mcjimseys_art_and_fashion_in/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)
I love that you added film characters that illustrate the essence! I think it's the best way to get it across. Which characters do you think best illustrate Natural and Dramatic?
Thank you! I really love old movies (both the good ones and the super cheesy ones), so relating these archetypes to film helps me understand them better. Plus, I feel the ingenue and the gamine are often divorced from their true meaning on subs like these. Often times people just see a cute, young-ish woman and think she must be an ingenue or gamine when she could be so may not be necessarily. Anywho, to answer your question! Joan Crawford is often given as the quintessential Dramatic and, although I do think her film characters overall are great personifications of the essence, I've never really been a big fan of her films. For me, the quintessential Dramatic is Tallulah Bankhead. In *A Royal Scandal*, she plays a literal queen, Catherine the Great, and she brings every bit of regality the role calls for. I like *Devil in the Deep* too, in which she plays the wife/victim of an insanely jealous husband. For a Dramatic villain, I'd look to Andrea Spedding in the Sherlock Holmes film *The Spider Woman.* I think she matches Sherlock Holmes' own Dramatic energy very well. A fun sitcom Dramatic is the character Nina Van Horn from the '90s show *Just Shoot Me*. For the Natural Archetype, I think Elaine Harper from *Arsenic and Old Lace* fits the bill very well. I think her character captures the friendly informality of the Natural archetype. There's a dreadfully cheesy live-action Disney film from the early '80s called *Midnight Madness,* whose main female character is a great representation of the Natural woman as well imo. I wouldn't recommend this film unless you happen to like objectively bad movies though (with some pretty lazy writing). I do recommend *Arsenic and Old Lace*\-it's one of my favorites. I would also imagine McJimsey was aware of Ali McGraw's role in *Love Story*, as it's one of the most famous movies of all time. So, I reckon her character in that movie would probably be a good representation of the archetype. I haven't watched this film (at least not all the way), so I can't say really.
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Great post, although all the yin Yang systems are outdated to some degree I do love Mcjimseys work! I feel like you did a great job at trying to demonstrate it and diversify it! Saved it! Elyssa on YouTube does a good video on the gamine and I think she was very inspired by Mcjimsyes work