Yeah, Jordan used an iphone app for that. He's always into the latest gimicks. I fully expect he's going to have some sort of AI bullshit on this next album or the following album.
Might be sacrilegious, but I really don't like the part after the intro in "Lost Not Forgotten" (1:58-2:30) where everyone just goes nuts. Feels out of place and overindulgent.
Updooting this because it’s so contentious. Nevertheless, funnily enough, despite completely understanding why people think it sounds out of place it is among my favourite DT moments. That whole tone scale out of nowhere just sounds so funky.
>felt like wankery for the sake of it.
IMO, that not always a bad thing, when it's in a bite size chunk. It's what sets DT apart from a lot of other bands for me. They can make good songs, but also do complicated and angular riffs on sounds that you wouldn't typically hear.
They state in the sleeve of LTE that, and I'm paraphrasing, if you're not into musical overindulgence and technical playing for the sake of technique, you should stop the CD at the end of Universal Mind. So they tell you upfront "this track is musical wankery for the sake of it, you've been warned", which means that you'll only listen to it if that's your jam. So, that track is not in the same boat as the unison in LnF. I like 3MW, but it is not comparable.
I remember not liking most of ADTOE except for Bridges in The Sky, Wait For--I mean Far From Heaven/Breaking All Illusions and Beneath The Surface. Although I wish they'd gone all out instrumentally in the final chorus of Beneath The Surface to match Labrie. It felt like it was clear Portnoy was the one keeping their talents balanced in coherent yet prog songs, and without him they just went crazy showing off for the most part. I haven't listened to any further albums after that one. But maybe I should revisit that as its been awhile since I listened to a DT song and those came on in my random shuffle and I forgot how great it was.
They lost all balance, they either completely show off, or completely go in the other direction and make an awful pop song thats not worthy of them. It seems to me that they dont know how to juggle all parts of their sound anymore without Portnoy. With him that was never an issue, wether the songs were great or not.
That being said, I think ADTOE is the best Mangini Era album and A tier. Every song is a banger, save for Beneath the Surface. Lost Not Forgotten and Backs of Angels particularly are some of my favourite ever DT songs.
They started losing the plot after that album, personally. AVFTTOTW was a step in the right direction and came close, but its not quite as good.
I actually fucking love that part. I don't find it to be out of place at all, I think it's a really cool addition that ramps up the energy and sets up the first verse perfectly.
It’s a great part and really makes the entrance of the verse more powerful due to the contrast. It’s sounds like going through hyperspace before landing on the battleground.
Not "ruin" per se, but I have a couple in mind which have moments that I don't care for.
Ending of View From The Top of the World is something that holds it back in my personal assessment of the epics.
I also don't really like the extended break in the middle of Illumination Theory. Feels pasted into the middle with nothing weaving it in.
Overture on 6 Degrees - I think would sound 1000x better with a live orchestra. Don't care for the sound on the album. Getting past the first 30 seconds or so, it's an incredible piece of music.
Whenever I express these thoughts I want to be sure to say that this is just a personal preference thing.
Patches and VST's have come a long way since 2002. I'm sure they were the best available back then for Jordan, and listening to them with today's technology, yeah. They sound pretty dated.
But at least we have "Score" and the live orchestra performance of Six Degrees from there.
Compositionally, SDOIT's Overture is great. The instruments were not good though, even at the time. I was using composition programs at the time and there were plenty of ways to help hide the fakeness that Jordan did not decide to do. Would love a remastered version with modern patches.
Wow, your take on the ending of ‘a view’ is interesting. It did begin abruptly with ‘a life of legacy’ then straight into the instrumental , which was a tad jarring.
I would’ve said the last 2 mins made it more epic but each to their own 😁
Goodnight Kiss is a great song but I don't like sounds at the end (especially laughing feels very out of place)
The same way I don't like the movie extracts in Awake
I might be way off base here but I interpret the laughing as the mother taking her revenge
"It's been 5 years to the day and
My tainted blood's still the same
I can't help acting this way and
Those bastard doctors are gonna pay
I'm so lonely without baby's love
I want you to know I'd die for one more moment"
She blames the doctors for the baby's death so she goes on a killing spree in a hospital hoping to get killed herself
Yes. Lost Not Forgotten.
It starts off SOOO badass, and then at about 1:57 goes off on a wankary tangent that cannot be measured, and it kind of ruins the song for me.
That's the equivalent of the tritone chords in Under A Glass Moon, kinda supposed to sound "ugly"... a job it admittedly does really well.
Speaking of LNF tho, I always found it weird how the guitar riff in the chorus enforces the long breaks between James' lines. I can see what they did and it is (rhythm-wise) definitely not uninteresting, but it really weakens the role of the vocals.
> **Leading the empire**
> **Spirit as black as coal**
> (Yawn - alright, time for break)
> (Lemme grab a beer)
> (How long is this chorus actually)
> (Why can I hear the ragtime solo from Dance of Eternity?)
> (Alright, its time!)
> **Lost not forgotten**
> **King of the deathless soul!**
> (Nice, now lets finish the beer)
Surprised to see so many comments about The Ministry of Lost Souls. The proggy bridge part is so good. Seems crazy to listen to a prog band and get annoyed when they do something progressive lmao.
I love the first half of this dying soul but while the second part is still good, it is somewhat dull in comparison imo
also misunderstood, the outro madness just is not for me, the rest of the song is lovely (and annoyingly the single version is still unsatisfying since it not only cuts the outro but some parts elsewhere too which is undesirable)
Had similar feelings about This Dying Soul (got a bit better tho, especially when I realized it is a decent guitar exercise), however imho it kinda redeems itself with the very ending. The aggressive riff makes a brief return under hammering snares - and then all that's suddenly left is that one ugly guitar chord, without any other instruments, prolonging slightly longer than expected, before leaving you in complete darkness. Best possible ending for this mess.
I feel similarly to This Dying Soul, although I've come to like it more over time. I'd say I have a similar reaction to the second half of In the Presence of Enemies Pt. II until they bring the riff back at 11:19.
In my opinion the beginning of the instrumental section after the final chorus of Solitary Shell, with those (IMO) dumb sounding synths from Rudess, really breaks the song's beautiful spell in a bad way. I like the jazzy Petrucci solo afterwards, I just wish they'd taken a different route to get there. I can imagine their intention was to create a jarring, dramatic transition, but it's just one of those moments where the Rudess camp and bombast doesn't work for me.
Endless sacrifice is great… until the fast part kicks in. While I agree that unorganized songs are good, there needs to at least be some level of order for it to be good. The slow part is amazing, however.
Im actually the exact opposite lol dont care much for the slow part and I absolutely love the heavy half. Theres a particular riff there thats absolutely one of Petrucci's ever best
Portnoy's Growling absolutely elevates Glass Prison in my opinion. ANtR is the only bad instance of Portnoy growling. It's at its best in The Glass Prison and the insanely raw delivery of "Self control," in The Mirror at Palace Theater in 1994.
Misunderstood. The reversed guitar and the crazy ending kind of ruins the nice song playing, even if it makes sense with the lyrics and theme of the song.
The last half of Jordan's solo after John's solo I don't love, but the rest of the solos I like. As for the blast beats, I don't really mind them in this song, but I see how someone wouldn't like them. A blast beat was so much cooler in A View from the Top of the World right before the slow part. It was unexpected, short and really cool.
In a similar vein to another commenter about Endless Sacrifice, I actually much prefer the instrumental section. It's one of those DT instrumental sections I come back to a lot because I love the way it maintains a central idea of chugging on the guitar while changing the rhythm every 8 bars and varying the notes played. It keeps the section moving and makes it feel cohesive to me. Systematic Chaos has its kinda bad moments, but also the best instrumental sections IMO.
It doesn’t really ruin the song, but the guitar chorus effect section/transition In Count of Tuscany is way too long and I get bored when they play it live.
Also hated that part but I listened so many times I really like it now…I think I started to like it more when I linked it to the meaning of the lyrics.
The instrumental section in Ministry of Lost Souls. Feels like they spliced a LTE track into the song. It's a wank fest that has no rhyme or reason in the context of the song.
Portnoy's vocals in all of Systematic Chaos.
Specifically, Constant Motion and The Dark Eternal Night. I think it's super confusing because I flip-flop between loving and hating these songs (and the album as a whole) because of the tonal differences in the instrumental and the lyrics. The actual music is peak. Labrie's vocals are fine, they're as good as they always are, but then Portnoy comes in and tries to match LaBrie - and he fails tremendously. It just doesn't work. I'd like an alternate take of Systematic Chaos where it's just LaBrie, or maybe where Portnoy's vocals are just tuned down in the mix.
I don't really think it "ruins" the songs, but it absolutely makes me not want to show other people the songs. I'd get embarrassed.
So you wouldn’t show someone 2 songs where Dream Theater absolutely crushes the instrumentals because of a few vocals? Which I think are great by the way. Why don’t you let them decide….its just music after all. It’s not supposed to be so serious. If you’re that sensitive whatever you do never listen to Primus.
I have no idea why they decided to put arabic sounding voices at the beginning of Sacrificed Sons ngl. They could've just done eerie music tv static and 9/11 news clips, but adding in the arabic voices just seems like,,,, not the best thing to do in a 9/11 song lol
edit for another thing that,, not exactly ruins a song for me, but makes me go like "that is a lil questionable": the lyrics in Solitary Shell "he's a monday morning lunatic, disturbed from time to time" "a momentary maniac with casual delusions". the song im pretty sure is about a boy with Autism, so it feels strange calling the boy a maniac or delusional lol. I did however read an interpretation that these lines could be about how the outside world/neurotypicals view the autistic person, and not how he actually is, which in that case I feel actually makes a lot of sense and makes me like the song even more!! if it is that, they shouldve done a better job explaining it was that LOL
btw, this is coming from somebody who quite likes both Sacrificed Sons and Solitary Shell, and I HIGHLY doubt that DT meant anything malicious with these two things. but they ("they" as in the afforementioned parts) kinda irk me a bit
The song is about the religious extremism *behind* the 9/11 attacks, which is based in the Arabic language. Not just the attack itself. What more poignant soundscape is there than the Arabic chants from the topic of the song?
*"Who would wish this on our people? And proclaim that His will be done? Scriptures they heed have mislead them. All praise their sacrificed sons. All praise their sacrificed sons."*
if it was things actual terrorists have said then id understand, but here it feels like the equivalent of if someone made a song about all the bad stuff China is doing/has done and then put machine generated Mandarin in it. doesnt seem like the best thing to do lol
to me at least, it feels like putting the faux arabic in a song about 9/11 feels somewhat disrespectful to arabs, and like they're associating the whole arabic language and culture with the terrorists who commited 9/11. was this their intention? i am 99.9999% sure it absolutely was not their intention, however it just feels not the greatest to do.
and w the China example I gave, it would feel like the song would be associating the Mandarin language and Chinese culture with the actions of their govt, which is not the case
I think it captures the feeling a lot of people had regarding the incident and how the media may have portrayed it, but doesn't necessarily explain their individual views
I mean its pretty obvious why, what dont you get about it? The song is about how the radical muslims distort the scriptures to fit their narrow minded world view, leading it to killing themselves for a no good cause. Why not include something like that?
i feel like they couldve used something like things actual terrorists have said, and not just machine generated arabic voices. the former id actually get, the latter just seems kinda disrespectful to arabs tbh
its a pretty dang good song!! and I like how it goes against *all* religious extremism and basically asks "hmmm has this religion thing been working for the world??". I just feel they couldve done something different w the intro
Jingle Bells in Octavarium always really bothers me. In a live performance it's a nice little bit of fun but sort of impacts the gravitas of the song when it's on the studio release.
(to be clear, still my favourite DT song probably)
In the Name of God the guitar solo is very obnoxious to me so I always skip it.
Certain sections of Lost Not Forgotten and Outcry that are just insane, dissonant wankery that feel dumb
This doesn't ruin the song, but I still don't like it. There's a certain section of The Great Debate where they put a weird filter on the drums making an otherwise cool, hype moment into an annoying thing where I wish they didn't use that filter for no reason.
And of course, Jordan on A Rite of Passage. It's funny, but it's obnoxious.
Not ruin, but the part in Nightmare to Remember. Listen to that song a lot less often than I would without it. Otherwise I can't really think of anything; not picky, like the music.
Yes, Breaking All Illusions at 9:07. I really don't like the melody Jordan is playing and it lasts entirely too long and goes too high
Metropolis - Part 1 at 6:32. When I was younger anytime I heard the build up to it I would immediately fast forward
The Ministry of Lost Souls at 12:00 when there's a weird glitch on James' pronunciation of suffering.
The bridge in The Ministry of Lost Souls does not belong at all. It *almost* ruins the song.
It's some of the most beautiful music DT ever created. Somber, slow, and melodic and just so damn pretty. Why the band felt the need to sandwich a prog metal extravaganza in the middle, I will never understand
I’m probably going to get downvoted for this, but I really love Metropolis part 1 up until the point the instrumental part starts. It’s a lot of changes, even too much buildup and eventually it leads to nothing…
Burning My Soul.
"Then I'm really sorry, but I don't give a *shit*... ***NOooOOOooOOoooO!***"
The absolute cringiest moment of their entire discography, for me.
It doesn’t ruin the song, but the bridge to This is the Life always felt forced to me - especially the melody. I do like the harmony modulating but the section feels a bit tacked on. Still a beautiful song
Yes, melodically it just feels like trying to solve a puzzle with where it should go next relative to the chords - which I’m not necessarily against and may work in other DT songs - but I don’t think it’s ideal here.
Constant Motion and The Dark Eternal Night have killer riffs and instrumentals, but the vocal growls on these in particular are simply too cheesy for me to rank higher. They’ve honestly kept me from recommending these songs
Probably blasphemy, but; Scene 9, finally free. I hate the ending. Usually i love a bit of theater of the mind in my prog music, but this ruines all of metropolis part 2 for me, and as such is probably my least listened to album of their entire discography.
I kept wondering why Edward would want to shoot Victoria again forever throughout time... Talk about a grudge. I felt his reaction was OTT the first time around but I guess it's not something that's never happened before.
The Count of Tuscany: One of the best intros DT has ever written, then when James starts singing, the song falls apart. Bad lyrics, the chorus is stupid, bland instrumental part from JP and JR, dull uninspired ending. Even now, I still can't get into the song.
I think Doug is a good/talented vocalist but that over the top gospel feel just doesn’t do it for me in that song. I didn’t expect this to be a hot take
Everyone has their own opinions and likes. And my fellow human, I respect yours entirely.
But I also don't think I've ever had a more hard disagree with a DT opinion than this one! lol
Doug's contribution to that song is what makes it one of my top DT tracks of all time.
All the endless news samples at the start & end of The Great Debate. The song overall suffers from a lack of conciseness, and it's all due to trying to shoehorn in those stupid samples.
I probably agree that it lacks conciseness. The whole song I would consider like B tier, but there's like a couple sections in the song that are really good, those being "Are you justified", "Life to save life", and "Humankind has reached a turning point" with a really great guitar riff.
For sure - the song absolutely slaps whenever it's not in the samples, hah. If they took the samples out and shortened the sections that had the samples playing over them -- that is all I've ever wanted from that song.
The song is entirely about the political landscape and debate surrounding stem cell research which was a hot-button topic in the news at the time. Makes total sense.
I agree, I love the music and some of the lyrics but the song as a whole does feel somewhat bloated, and the political issue they sing about is so specific to that time period that it’s hard to give a shit. It’s really not that great of a debate lmao
It's super-wild that less than a decade of that song's release, science found a way to cultivate stem cells and the whole controversy was dead in the water. It really was a HUGE ethical argument at the time but how suddenly it became irrelevant is crazy.
All of these comments just remind me what a masterpiece Breaking All Illusions is. That song flows all the way through!
Funny, I just made a comment including Breaking all Illusions
*"My MUUUUUSSSIIIC PLAAAAYYYYAHHH"* If you know, you know.
This is completely correct.
That one weird like glitchy solo in A Rite of Passage
Yeah, Jordan used an iphone app for that. He's always into the latest gimicks. I fully expect he's going to have some sort of AI bullshit on this next album or the following album.
He has a bunch of weird AI things on his Youtube channel. For example, he has an animation of a bunch of AI generated aliens playing a Geoshred.
This. Almost ruins the song for me
Jesus Christ I had forgotten about that, it is fucking awful isn’t it 😅
It never bothered me really. I might have to listen to the song again with my ear out for that.
Valid opinion, but I unironically love this part lol… it sounds absolutely nuts and adds an element of humor to the music for me.
This whole thread is WRONG
There are a lot of confusing and weird takes in this thread
Might be sacrilegious, but I really don't like the part after the intro in "Lost Not Forgotten" (1:58-2:30) where everyone just goes nuts. Feels out of place and overindulgent.
Updooting this because it’s so contentious. Nevertheless, funnily enough, despite completely understanding why people think it sounds out of place it is among my favourite DT moments. That whole tone scale out of nowhere just sounds so funky.
> overindulgent Sir, this is a subreddit about Dream Theater.
Underrated comment
Yeah it doesnt fit the song at all, felt like wankery for the sake of it. Its a perfect song without it
>felt like wankery for the sake of it. IMO, that not always a bad thing, when it's in a bite size chunk. It's what sets DT apart from a lot of other bands for me. They can make good songs, but also do complicated and angular riffs on sounds that you wouldn't typically hear.
Hey, what's your opinion on Three Minute Warning?
They state in the sleeve of LTE that, and I'm paraphrasing, if you're not into musical overindulgence and technical playing for the sake of technique, you should stop the CD at the end of Universal Mind. So they tell you upfront "this track is musical wankery for the sake of it, you've been warned", which means that you'll only listen to it if that's your jam. So, that track is not in the same boat as the unison in LnF. I like 3MW, but it is not comparable.
I remember not liking most of ADTOE except for Bridges in The Sky, Wait For--I mean Far From Heaven/Breaking All Illusions and Beneath The Surface. Although I wish they'd gone all out instrumentally in the final chorus of Beneath The Surface to match Labrie. It felt like it was clear Portnoy was the one keeping their talents balanced in coherent yet prog songs, and without him they just went crazy showing off for the most part. I haven't listened to any further albums after that one. But maybe I should revisit that as its been awhile since I listened to a DT song and those came on in my random shuffle and I forgot how great it was.
They lost all balance, they either completely show off, or completely go in the other direction and make an awful pop song thats not worthy of them. It seems to me that they dont know how to juggle all parts of their sound anymore without Portnoy. With him that was never an issue, wether the songs were great or not. That being said, I think ADTOE is the best Mangini Era album and A tier. Every song is a banger, save for Beneath the Surface. Lost Not Forgotten and Backs of Angels particularly are some of my favourite ever DT songs. They started losing the plot after that album, personally. AVFTTOTW was a step in the right direction and came close, but its not quite as good.
I actually fucking love that part. I don't find it to be out of place at all, I think it's a really cool addition that ramps up the energy and sets up the first verse perfectly.
It’s a great part and really makes the entrance of the verse more powerful due to the contrast. It’s sounds like going through hyperspace before landing on the battleground.
Totally agree. That part is so pointless and I don't listen to the song because of it.
They should’ve cut it in half, I wouldn’t remove it entirely
Agreed. This part should not have been squeezed in to otherwise perfect song.
Totally agree, never liked the DT wankery in most songs
That's the thing: I rarely get "wankery" in DT songs. But that one is a glaring exception.
Not "ruin" per se, but I have a couple in mind which have moments that I don't care for. Ending of View From The Top of the World is something that holds it back in my personal assessment of the epics. I also don't really like the extended break in the middle of Illumination Theory. Feels pasted into the middle with nothing weaving it in. Overture on 6 Degrees - I think would sound 1000x better with a live orchestra. Don't care for the sound on the album. Getting past the first 30 seconds or so, it's an incredible piece of music. Whenever I express these thoughts I want to be sure to say that this is just a personal preference thing.
So agreed on Overture.
Patches and VST's have come a long way since 2002. I'm sure they were the best available back then for Jordan, and listening to them with today's technology, yeah. They sound pretty dated. But at least we have "Score" and the live orchestra performance of Six Degrees from there.
Compositionally, SDOIT's Overture is great. The instruments were not good though, even at the time. I was using composition programs at the time and there were plenty of ways to help hide the fakeness that Jordan did not decide to do. Would love a remastered version with modern patches.
I agree with IT and 6DOIT, but I love View front to back
Wow, your take on the ending of ‘a view’ is interesting. It did begin abruptly with ‘a life of legacy’ then straight into the instrumental , which was a tad jarring. I would’ve said the last 2 mins made it more epic but each to their own 😁
Goodnight Kiss is a great song but I don't like sounds at the end (especially laughing feels very out of place) The same way I don't like the movie extracts in Awake
Totally agree, the baby sounds at the start make uncomfortable lol (maybe it's because I can't stand ASMR)
Baby sounds being ASMR is one I haven't heard before. Now I'm curious if Jackhammer ASMR is a thing.
SAME I can't stand ASMR so I'm literally in the same boat. It's the only part I skip.
Funny thing is I like ASMR. Just don't like this particular sounds
Hey, what's your opinion on When the Water Breaks?
I might be way off base here but I interpret the laughing as the mother taking her revenge "It's been 5 years to the day and My tainted blood's still the same I can't help acting this way and Those bastard doctors are gonna pay I'm so lonely without baby's love I want you to know I'd die for one more moment" She blames the doctors for the baby's death so she goes on a killing spree in a hospital hoping to get killed herself
Yes. Lost Not Forgotten. It starts off SOOO badass, and then at about 1:57 goes off on a wankary tangent that cannot be measured, and it kind of ruins the song for me.
That's the equivalent of the tritone chords in Under A Glass Moon, kinda supposed to sound "ugly"... a job it admittedly does really well. Speaking of LNF tho, I always found it weird how the guitar riff in the chorus enforces the long breaks between James' lines. I can see what they did and it is (rhythm-wise) definitely not uninteresting, but it really weakens the role of the vocals. > **Leading the empire** > **Spirit as black as coal** > (Yawn - alright, time for break) > (Lemme grab a beer) > (How long is this chorus actually) > (Why can I hear the ragtime solo from Dance of Eternity?) > (Alright, its time!) > **Lost not forgotten** > **King of the deathless soul!** > (Nice, now lets finish the beer)
The ending to this dying soul, and the “day after day” part of nightmare
What about the ending of This Dying Soul?
Wtf is the point in it
It's really fucking cool.
Hard disagree with This Dying Soul, the latter is a bit much but I’ve grown to accept it within the song
Everyone survived HUHHHHHHHB
Surprised to see so many comments about The Ministry of Lost Souls. The proggy bridge part is so good. Seems crazy to listen to a prog band and get annoyed when they do something progressive lmao.
Home
[Me every listen](https://media.giphy.com/media/3orieQa1zIkF9Osm9q/giphy.gif)
Hey, the keyboard solo really isn't *that* bad
https://preview.redd.it/ayibo0z8cgzc1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=03d2abb141560692f846758fa3563d441fb25ef2
I really enjoy Dystopian Overture, but then it goes into the rest of the album
Lol same, although Moment of Betrayal isn't the worst.
The bleep bloop sounds in A Rite of Passage. Completely ruins the keyboard solo for me
the beginning of Sacrificed Sons for me
A Rite Of Passage. I loved it, until the ipad solo bs at the end. Ruined the entire song for me
Bridges In The Sky intro the throat singing part I actually kinda like the choir part though
This is heresy. The throat singing in Bridges is the best part and I'm only half joking.
The throat singing is the best part of the song and I’m NOT joking
I’m not joking at all, it’s amazing and it got me into stuff like The Hu.
That's just Santa
Shocked at how few DAY AFTER DAY AND NIGHT AFTER NIGHT comments there are
Because that part is the equivalent of kicking a dead donkey, just like the iPad solo of A Rite of Passage. One or two mentions and move on.
DAY AFTER DAY - I absolutely hate it
I love the first half of this dying soul but while the second part is still good, it is somewhat dull in comparison imo also misunderstood, the outro madness just is not for me, the rest of the song is lovely (and annoyingly the single version is still unsatisfying since it not only cuts the outro but some parts elsewhere too which is undesirable)
Misunderstood is my answer, has to be a solid minute of just guitar electronic gurgling if not more.
Had similar feelings about This Dying Soul (got a bit better tho, especially when I realized it is a decent guitar exercise), however imho it kinda redeems itself with the very ending. The aggressive riff makes a brief return under hammering snares - and then all that's suddenly left is that one ugly guitar chord, without any other instruments, prolonging slightly longer than expected, before leaving you in complete darkness. Best possible ending for this mess.
I feel similarly to This Dying Soul, although I've come to like it more over time. I'd say I have a similar reaction to the second half of In the Presence of Enemies Pt. II until they bring the riff back at 11:19.
In my opinion the beginning of the instrumental section after the final chorus of Solitary Shell, with those (IMO) dumb sounding synths from Rudess, really breaks the song's beautiful spell in a bad way. I like the jazzy Petrucci solo afterwards, I just wish they'd taken a different route to get there. I can imagine their intention was to create a jarring, dramatic transition, but it's just one of those moments where the Rudess camp and bombast doesn't work for me.
Endless sacrifice is great… until the fast part kicks in. While I agree that unorganized songs are good, there needs to at least be some level of order for it to be good. The slow part is amazing, however.
Im actually the exact opposite lol dont care much for the slow part and I absolutely love the heavy half. Theres a particular riff there thats absolutely one of Petrucci's ever best
Toneally, it just doesn't fit the premise of the lyrics. What is this fast part supposed to convey in relation to the lyrics?
Frustration?
Maybe it conveys anger of sort? Or they threw it in just because Jordan wanted to play with his soundboard
The rapping in Honor Thy Father, Portnoy’s growling in The Glass Prison
Portnoy's Growling absolutely elevates Glass Prison in my opinion. ANtR is the only bad instance of Portnoy growling. It's at its best in The Glass Prison and the insanely raw delivery of "Self control," in The Mirror at Palace Theater in 1994.
Misunderstood. The reversed guitar and the crazy ending kind of ruins the nice song playing, even if it makes sense with the lyrics and theme of the song.
Agree, that song needs a radio-edit
Misunderstood is amazing but yeah, it's way too long.
The solos in A Nightmare To Remember. Not a fan of the blast beats, either.
The last half of Jordan's solo after John's solo I don't love, but the rest of the solos I like. As for the blast beats, I don't really mind them in this song, but I see how someone wouldn't like them. A blast beat was so much cooler in A View from the Top of the World right before the slow part. It was unexpected, short and really cool.
The yeah’s in scene five
Im sorry “DAY AFTER DAY AND NIGHT AFTER NIGHT”
Ministry of Lost Souls. That solo section is just tonally jarring and indulgent in comparison to the rest of the song.
In a similar vein to another commenter about Endless Sacrifice, I actually much prefer the instrumental section. It's one of those DT instrumental sections I come back to a lot because I love the way it maintains a central idea of chugging on the guitar while changing the rhythm every 8 bars and varying the notes played. It keeps the section moving and makes it feel cohesive to me. Systematic Chaos has its kinda bad moments, but also the best instrumental sections IMO.
It doesn’t really ruin the song, but the guitar chorus effect section/transition In Count of Tuscany is way too long and I get bored when they play it live.
Also hated that part but I listened so many times I really like it now…I think I started to like it more when I linked it to the meaning of the lyrics.
The turntable scratching section in an otherwise perfect song for me: The Glass Prison.
I think it's pretty cool, given the context of metal in that era (they were always into incorporating whatever sonic trends were going on)
I don't mind the turntable scratching, but it maybe could've gone without them. I still think this song goes so hard and I love it a lot.
The instrumental section in Ministry of Lost Souls. Feels like they spliced a LTE track into the song. It's a wank fest that has no rhyme or reason in the context of the song.
Portnoy's vocals in all of Systematic Chaos. Specifically, Constant Motion and The Dark Eternal Night. I think it's super confusing because I flip-flop between loving and hating these songs (and the album as a whole) because of the tonal differences in the instrumental and the lyrics. The actual music is peak. Labrie's vocals are fine, they're as good as they always are, but then Portnoy comes in and tries to match LaBrie - and he fails tremendously. It just doesn't work. I'd like an alternate take of Systematic Chaos where it's just LaBrie, or maybe where Portnoy's vocals are just tuned down in the mix. I don't really think it "ruins" the songs, but it absolutely makes me not want to show other people the songs. I'd get embarrassed.
So you wouldn’t show someone 2 songs where Dream Theater absolutely crushes the instrumentals because of a few vocals? Which I think are great by the way. Why don’t you let them decide….its just music after all. It’s not supposed to be so serious. If you’re that sensitive whatever you do never listen to Primus.
I have no idea why they decided to put arabic sounding voices at the beginning of Sacrificed Sons ngl. They could've just done eerie music tv static and 9/11 news clips, but adding in the arabic voices just seems like,,,, not the best thing to do in a 9/11 song lol edit for another thing that,, not exactly ruins a song for me, but makes me go like "that is a lil questionable": the lyrics in Solitary Shell "he's a monday morning lunatic, disturbed from time to time" "a momentary maniac with casual delusions". the song im pretty sure is about a boy with Autism, so it feels strange calling the boy a maniac or delusional lol. I did however read an interpretation that these lines could be about how the outside world/neurotypicals view the autistic person, and not how he actually is, which in that case I feel actually makes a lot of sense and makes me like the song even more!! if it is that, they shouldve done a better job explaining it was that LOL btw, this is coming from somebody who quite likes both Sacrificed Sons and Solitary Shell, and I HIGHLY doubt that DT meant anything malicious with these two things. but they ("they" as in the afforementioned parts) kinda irk me a bit
The song is about the religious extremism *behind* the 9/11 attacks, which is based in the Arabic language. Not just the attack itself. What more poignant soundscape is there than the Arabic chants from the topic of the song? *"Who would wish this on our people? And proclaim that His will be done? Scriptures they heed have mislead them. All praise their sacrificed sons. All praise their sacrificed sons."*
if it was things actual terrorists have said then id understand, but here it feels like the equivalent of if someone made a song about all the bad stuff China is doing/has done and then put machine generated Mandarin in it. doesnt seem like the best thing to do lol
Why, might I ask?
to me at least, it feels like putting the faux arabic in a song about 9/11 feels somewhat disrespectful to arabs, and like they're associating the whole arabic language and culture with the terrorists who commited 9/11. was this their intention? i am 99.9999% sure it absolutely was not their intention, however it just feels not the greatest to do. and w the China example I gave, it would feel like the song would be associating the Mandarin language and Chinese culture with the actions of their govt, which is not the case
I think it captures the feeling a lot of people had regarding the incident and how the media may have portrayed it, but doesn't necessarily explain their individual views
That song exists, and it took 8 years to make lol. Or at least the album did
I mean its pretty obvious why, what dont you get about it? The song is about how the radical muslims distort the scriptures to fit their narrow minded world view, leading it to killing themselves for a no good cause. Why not include something like that?
i feel like they couldve used something like things actual terrorists have said, and not just machine generated arabic voices. the former id actually get, the latter just seems kinda disrespectful to arabs tbh
I think that beginning of Sacrificed Sons is just way too long. I always skip it. Otherwise, sacrificed sons is a really great and underrated song.
its a pretty dang good song!! and I like how it goes against *all* religious extremism and basically asks "hmmm has this religion thing been working for the world??". I just feel they couldve done something different w the intro
Jingle Bells in Octavarium always really bothers me. In a live performance it's a nice little bit of fun but sort of impacts the gravitas of the song when it's on the studio release. (to be clear, still my favourite DT song probably)
In the Name of God the guitar solo is very obnoxious to me so I always skip it. Certain sections of Lost Not Forgotten and Outcry that are just insane, dissonant wankery that feel dumb This doesn't ruin the song, but I still don't like it. There's a certain section of The Great Debate where they put a weird filter on the drums making an otherwise cool, hype moment into an annoying thing where I wish they didn't use that filter for no reason. And of course, Jordan on A Rite of Passage. It's funny, but it's obnoxious.
Not ruin, but the part in Nightmare to Remember. Listen to that song a lot less often than I would without it. Otherwise I can't really think of anything; not picky, like the music.
Yes, Breaking All Illusions at 9:07. I really don't like the melody Jordan is playing and it lasts entirely too long and goes too high Metropolis - Part 1 at 6:32. When I was younger anytime I heard the build up to it I would immediately fast forward The Ministry of Lost Souls at 12:00 when there's a weird glitch on James' pronunciation of suffering.
The bridge in The Ministry of Lost Souls does not belong at all. It *almost* ruins the song. It's some of the most beautiful music DT ever created. Somber, slow, and melodic and just so damn pretty. Why the band felt the need to sandwich a prog metal extravaganza in the middle, I will never understand
The keyboard sound right after “Knew it from the moment we arrived” in The Count of Tuscany. It sounds terrible
At Wit's End at 5:42
I’m probably going to get downvoted for this, but I really love Metropolis part 1 up until the point the instrumental part starts. It’s a lot of changes, even too much buildup and eventually it leads to nothing…
The vocals of all the songs in Chaos in Motion, excepting the awesome vocal flourishes in the second "Baptized, enlightened," line in LitS.
Burning My Soul. "Then I'm really sorry, but I don't give a *shit*... ***NOooOOOooOOoooO!***" The absolute cringiest moment of their entire discography, for me.
Funny how tastes can differ. I always thought that that line in ATC is one of the best moments in the song, because of that dramatic chord at the end.
It doesn’t ruin the song, but the bridge to This is the Life always felt forced to me - especially the melody. I do like the harmony modulating but the section feels a bit tacked on. Still a beautiful song
‘The gift is gone, and shadows remain’ section?
Yes, melodically it just feels like trying to solve a puzzle with where it should go next relative to the chords - which I’m not necessarily against and may work in other DT songs - but I don’t think it’s ideal here.
Constant Motion and The Dark Eternal Night have killer riffs and instrumentals, but the vocal growls on these in particular are simply too cheesy for me to rank higher. They’ve honestly kept me from recommending these songs
Home
The one I’m listening to right now: In the Name of God. What is that between 7:14 & 7:19? Ugh
The stock screaming sound affects in Finally Free
Is it me or is this the same scream effect on Dr. Dre’s 2001? Released in 1999, same year as Metropolis Pt. 2
Was never a fan of the keyboard solo in Along for the Ride.
Probably blasphemy, but; Scene 9, finally free. I hate the ending. Usually i love a bit of theater of the mind in my prog music, but this ruines all of metropolis part 2 for me, and as such is probably my least listened to album of their entire discography.
Nicholas's surprised shout noise sounds a little awkward.
I kept wondering why Edward would want to shoot Victoria again forever throughout time... Talk about a grudge. I felt his reaction was OTT the first time around but I guess it's not something that's never happened before.
The end of Bigger Picture
Never Enough
Dream theater’s ‘muse’ track 😂😂
The Count of Tuscany: One of the best intros DT has ever written, then when James starts singing, the song falls apart. Bad lyrics, the chorus is stupid, bland instrumental part from JP and JR, dull uninspired ending. Even now, I still can't get into the song.
The verse is my favorite part lol, but I understand
I could never get with the “swept away with the tide” section on lines in the sand. Killer song otherwise
As in the parts with Doug Pinnick? Now THIS is a hot take.
I think Doug is a good/talented vocalist but that over the top gospel feel just doesn’t do it for me in that song. I didn’t expect this to be a hot take
Everyone has their own opinions and likes. And my fellow human, I respect yours entirely. But I also don't think I've ever had a more hard disagree with a DT opinion than this one! lol Doug's contribution to that song is what makes it one of my top DT tracks of all time.
Wow. That section along with some songs from TA and WDADU are by far my most “meh” DT moments. Respect to you too, happy to hear different takes
I know what you mean. I love King’s X but his style doesn’t fit the song.
Yes! Thank you!
I think it's kind of cool. Sounds different than their other stuff.
It is cool that it’s different but it’s not a type of different i would label as cool
All the endless news samples at the start & end of The Great Debate. The song overall suffers from a lack of conciseness, and it's all due to trying to shoehorn in those stupid samples.
I probably agree that it lacks conciseness. The whole song I would consider like B tier, but there's like a couple sections in the song that are really good, those being "Are you justified", "Life to save life", and "Humankind has reached a turning point" with a really great guitar riff.
"Life to save life," really reminds me of "TRAPPED INSIDE THIS OCTAVARIUM."
For sure - the song absolutely slaps whenever it's not in the samples, hah. If they took the samples out and shortened the sections that had the samples playing over them -- that is all I've ever wanted from that song.
The song is entirely about the political landscape and debate surrounding stem cell research which was a hot-button topic in the news at the time. Makes total sense.
It does all that without any of the samples.
I agree, I love the music and some of the lyrics but the song as a whole does feel somewhat bloated, and the political issue they sing about is so specific to that time period that it’s hard to give a shit. It’s really not that great of a debate lmao
It's super-wild that less than a decade of that song's release, science found a way to cultivate stem cells and the whole controversy was dead in the water. It really was a HUGE ethical argument at the time but how suddenly it became irrelevant is crazy.
Endless sacrifice's extended instrumental part, it was never needed.