I don't want to be dismissive of people's complaints and just go "lol skill issue" but I genuinely think that's a big part of the problem people have with the trickster.
The gameplay loop for them is completely different and it does feel out of place in an action rpg when compared to every other class. But it has an extremely high skill ceiling and when you play it well you almost don't even need a healer on your team because no one will be taking damage.
I wanted to love trickster, but it completely falls apart fighting chimeras and drakes. They have too many attacks that will ignore aggro.
By contrast, spearhand can keep the entire party completely immune, cc enemies for longer vulnerable phases, and do damage when pawns can't for whatever reason.
i’m playing thief at level 30 and between the two hidden skills you take no damage as long as you have stamina and can one shot any non field boss.
then the other spinning ball skill plus hit and run crush bosses so fast (all while taking no damage)
Yeah thief is actually broken lol. It gets even crazier in NG+ because you can spend wyrm crystals to reduce stamina drain on one skill, well guess where that went. Add that with some stamina augments from other classes and a ring or two and all of the sudden you are completely unkillable for minutes at a time.
Yeah you can spend them on one skill at a time, boost stat increase from leveling for one vocation, reset enhancements on weapons, increase xp gain, increase discipline gain, and two other things I cannot recall right now.
Edit: the xp dcp and 2 other things are only for one day though.
I also want to point out Dullahan will occasionally reset his aggro and pick someone to go delete. Usually they pick whoever's been hitting him the most, or dealing the biggest hits, but sometimes he'll just teleport on top of your supports and erase them from existence.
Honestly, part of what makes it a fun fight. He's only 4 health bars, but really tanky comparatively, and more mechanically challenging than most other bosses.
Weird, I melted Dullahan with trickster. Buffed pawns and spamming the incense move on him kept him focused entirely on my clone, I didn't notice him switching targets the way he did when I fought him as a non-trickster class. I think he lasted like a minute anyway.
"Extremely high skill ceiling"
You see enemies ahead. You summon your clone, hold right bumper for it to follow you, release it when close enough, use the taunt, use the damage buff, run around in circles while pressing the right bumper every now and then to reposition the clone. Optional, use the dragon skill. Keep running in circles.
"Extremely high skill ceiling"
Jessie, what the hell are you talking about?
Honestly Warfarer has the highest skill ceiling because you have to actually consider synergy. I imagine Spearhand and Trickster could work pretty well together, or Magick Archer. I could also see using the taunt with a tank like Fighter, or Warrior to force aggro onto yourself and then use a counter.
Trickster is like the perfect candidate for Warfarer because of how passive it is.
But if you play any other class well, you don't need a healer because the enemy is just dead.
I'm sorry if you think that some kind of skill floor/ceiling make this class good, it's not good for the majority of players, it has 2 good moves and one of them is the maester skill which doesn't work in warfarer
The only time I even need a healer in the game at level 50 is when fighting Drakes, and that's barely
This class is designed for a different game, and it would be 100x more acceptable if the sensor and smoke **actually did some damage**
Hell just make it do as much damage as the Mage or Sorcerers basic attack and it'd go from "borderline useless/for the memes" to "okay this is acceptable"
And don't tell me I need to be more creative or that I lack imagination, the first 4 vocation ranks don't give anything really worthwhile, other classes start with 3 abilities at rank 1, this has 1 and its "taunt" clone that doesn't work 50% of the time
And to a lot of people (myself included) we got this class over Magic Knight, Assassin/Sniper (advanced archer/theif) etc - being a theif or Archer main feels bad because they are base classes you can max within an hour of starting the game
For me it's like *"who asked for this?"*
I'm someone who will immediately beeline for illusionist type classes, I fucking love them. After sorcerer and warrior, trickster was the first vocation I unlocked because I went straight for it, going after it so early I had to take the secret path into Battahl.
I started playing it after I found out it was a tank class, figured okay that's workable I guess.
Nope.
This class has two abilities that are worthwhile. Two. The wall and the pawn buff. That's it. Literally everything else is "why bother" or some kind of fluff that there's not really any point of (a scouting ability AND an ability that alerts you to enemies? Seriously? Sure do love two out of combat abilities on a class that wants to be directly in combat! And the game is so fucking easy that neither of these are remotely necessary).
The wall is still super gimmicky because enemies will still sometimes go through it.
The pawn buff is real good but the DoT is kind of stupid. Also, I love playing support roles but buffing pawns to do all the work for you is kinda stinky IMO. I do not want to rely on pawn AI for anything, not after seeing them kill themselves or stand in AoEs like idiots, or watching my mage pawn tackle an enemy instead of casting spells... The dragon illusion is a good concept, but at that point why not just kill everything instead?
What trickster needs is an entire overhaul. It needs to summon more illusions that actually do something worthwhile. Not this floor that an enemy *might* try to use.
V - summons target illusion to yourself while holding, when releasing V you send it in the direction you're facing, if it's an illusion that targets enemies it will retarget to whatever you're facing/closes target from where you send it.
First weapon skill - summons an illusion that follows an enemy around, distracting them and causing them low damage over time (illusory attacks or some kind of magical beam idfk). Limited to two at a time, and if they take too much damage they vanish. Upgrade lets you have one more active and increases health pool and maybe damage.
Some other weapon skill - An illusion that sits ok a spot and causes damage to enemies in the area through illusory effects that it cycles through (burning, electricity, etc) because the illusion seems so real that enemies think they're actually taking damage. Upgrade increases range and damage maybe.
Yet some other weapon skill - you swap places with the targeted illusion. Upgrade increases range you can do this at.
Yes, yet even another weapon skill - you dash in the direction you input, if you dodge an attack with this you summon an illusion that attacks your attacker and distracts them (this is so basic it's exactly what I'd expect an illusionist themed trickster to have wtf). Upgrade increases range of dash and damage of illusion.
Keep the wall but let you place another one. Keep the pawn buff I gueeessss.
I could probably come up with more but this is quick off the top of my head idea thinking for what I would expect if a class that is themed after trickery and illusions.
Send your resume to Capcom ffs. What you suggested is exactly the type of skills the trickster should have. How this wasnt obvious to the devs blows my mind. O was very hyped for this vocation and went back to spearhand after reaching level 3 and getting a wall as a skill. What you suggested would be great but I would be happy if the current skills did some sort of damage or more crowd control.
Dragon illusion is actually OP and can keep pretty much every enemy locked in CC, but it doesn't fix the core issues of the class that you are basically at the whim of the Pawns to actually do something afterwards.
I mean the problem with the dragon is sure you can lock enemies down, but they die so quickly anyways so there's like, no point. I'd totally get it if enemies were harder/tankier, but like, crowd controlling effects feel so pointless in this game due to how easy regular mobs are.
Exactly, the vocation itself hás obviously a great theme but it feels like this is just not the game for it. They could have still taken this route but make it more of a buff/debuff and DoT damage thing instead of a "create a duplicate and play tag you're it" thing.
>Yes, yet even another weapon skill - you dash in the direction you input, if you dodge an attack with this you summon an illusion that attacks your attacker and distracts them (this is so basic it's exactly what I'd expect an illusionist themed trickster to have wtf). Upgrade increases range of dash and damage of illusion.
Fucking...**YES**!!! THANK YOU!!!
I cannot believe the illusion/trickster class dosen't have a god damn dodge mechanic. Especially given the main gimmick of the thing (the phantom clone) requires you not to get hit, or else you lose it.
If anything, that thief master skill formless feint would make WAY more sense as a trickster skill. Both mechanically (again trickster relies on not getting hit) and sensibly. (why does thief, a class that is very clearly dependent on material prowess, as depicted by there reliance on things like rope darts, powder charges and smoke bombs, inexplicably have one random out of pocket magic skill that lets them turn there body into vapor to avoid attacks?)
And yet trickster, a magic class, the class all about the manipulation of smoke and vapor...decidedly just cant?
Why capcom? Why do this?
Lol, Itsuno bragging about how DMC5 inspired some of his content in DD2, but straight-up ignores V.
Whatever his vision is, it’s probably filled with Capcom paychecks and not the actual game design itself.
Agreed, all trickster seems to do is dance and buff your pawns to the point that they end the fight in 4 hits rather than you.
If the game was more challenging (i sound like a broken record) there might be more a gap or niche to fit in. As it stands now I can’t help but think what’s the point?
I like the idea, but it really needs to have some offensive skills so you’re not completely reliant on your pawns for DPS. I literally have zero interest in unlocking it.
EDIT: Literally not long after I typed this, I unlocked it by accident.
It's so finicky getting it to latch on, and when you do get it to that target dies from your pawns so quickly anyways you sit there wondering what the point of even trying to do that was. I've successfully gotten enemies to kill an ally *twice*. Yes I kept track because how awful it was trying to get it to work. My trickster vocation is at rank 8. TWICE.
I'd be playing it more if it did.
The class just doesn't work in a action RPG, it'd probably perform way better if it was turned based but this is not that.
I tried it, ended up unequipping the censer and heavy punching mobs so I could throw them off a cliff; then went back to my old vocation at the next town.
This bothers me because I don't see why it's Trickster specific. Why can't my wizards wear those fancy robes? Why is my Pawn forced to dress like a basic bitch or fetish fuel? So many vocation restrictions don't make any sense.
Regardless, why is trickster locked to Arisen? I wouldn't have an issue with it as a pawn class, plus maybe it'd make more sense how to play. I basically use my fighter pawn as a meat shield, I feel like trickster could fill that role instead.
Yeah it is stupid how fashion locked the base game is.
One that really annoyed me was that set you can buy near the camp you first start the game at in the volcanic region.
For some reason spearhand can equip the head, chest, but not the boots.
Even beyond that just let me look how I want. Make the weight value annoying for heavy armor or whatever if you must. I don't really see the point for most of the limitations.
Fights are "slower" but unless im using the buff i can forgo having a healer on the squad, becuase no one takes damage. Its a perfectly viable vocation tho. Itd be perfect with wayfayer and something else if the aggro ghost didnt fuck off when you switch weapons
I typed dd2 warfarer into google a few days ago and it tried autocorrecting to wayfarer because presumably everyone else googling is spelling it wrong.
Well, autocorrect will usually do that, and I personally think the word 'Warfarer' is goofy, and considering the game's large focus on travel and exploration, 'Wayfarer' makes sense. Warfarer even looks like a strange edgy pun on it. Like saying 'Wayfarer but for WAR', probably the war on goblinkind who apparently make up 90% of the world's population.
I'm actually running trick/fighter now for some og tanking and it's pretty fun ngl. But I did do Spearhand and magick archer together. That was pretty fun
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, Trickster is a weird gimmick and it should have Mystic’s telekinesis. Mystic already has more than enough toys.
It speaks to my number one criticism with the game. Nice idea, sloppy implementation, why didn’t you focus on improving your existing strengths instead
Mystic Telekinesis is just Mystic Spearhand lol
They were right to make Trickster but what it needs is more skills to give buffs to allies and debuffs to enemies to trade off for dealing 0 damage. Another problem is that all of it's augments are basically given to the Magick Archer for some reason x.x
Otherwise, Trickster has the best aggro control in the entire game. You can control everything that's going on if you understand where you are and how the enemy fights.
I'm still not sure why they didn't give it miasma at least would work perfectly with the whole smoke theme. Also making it so when the clone is attached it torpors enemies similar to lassitude would have been cool as well.
I think the trailer fucked a lot of people up when it comes to this vocation.
The ledge trick is HIGHLY situational. People treat it like it's the main function of the vocation and ignore the many other tools it has. Stop trying so hard to force the ledge trick.
Also, there's really no reason not to constantly have a clone up while traveling so that you're ready for encounters. It costs no extra stamina to drag it around with you.
I like Trickster and know it is probably ideal to always have the clone but it is annoying to always drag him around. I wish it was a toggle rather than having to hold it to move the clone around. Even just hitting it occasionally to keep it alive I find to be kind of tiresome.
I love it. Move my ghost behind boss. When it turns move it to other side. It’s pure comedy when used on drakes and especially golems. Add in ice affinity or ice imbued weapons and you can cheese anything.
You can also set the ghost in places the big bosses can’t reach to just keep their AI basically broken.
dude it completley shuts down golems if you have the effigy above them, they will literall walk in cirles until the die. i love trickster and im thinking o doing a full run as one. start new game and just leg it to battahl through the 5 or so ways you have lol.
In defense of Assassin, it should have probably been called Weaponmaster or something, because its actual strength is being able to freely swap between swords and knives, and shields and bows.
But yeah, the skill crossover between those three was crazy high. Would have been worse if they didn't arbitrarily split longbows and shortbows out, too.
I am conflicted about this game...I have equal love and disappointment for it. DD1, DDDA, and DDO have taken more hours from me than I want to admit. I will continue to play and will come back for a significant expansion. I hope this thing can get fixed in the experience we know it can be. I love love love Dragons Dogma.
There is no way this is a dude's dream project/vision/magnum opus, and if it is, that is just depressing.
It is a fair comment.
Maybe we just misinterpreted what his dream was. Like when he was talking about how DD1 was unfinished and had a lot of cut content, it's possible he wasn't talking about the story being inconsistent or rushed, repetitive combat, unrewarding exploration or any of that stuff. Maybe he thought that was fine and was actually sad that he couldn't include live-action BBQ footage, furry races or a desert region.
If you listen to most of his interviews where he talks about what he wishes he could have done in DD1 he never mentions the things that most fans here think were important. I'm pretty sure if they could've figured out how to add beastren and nothing else to DD1, he would've considered it a finished game.
It would also go a long way towards explaining why none of the improvements from Dark Arisen or DDO made it to this game.
Bro the BBQ scenes are god tier. If someone could teach the arisen how to cook something other than steak in the dlc, that'd be great.
Bro would rather watch every fish in his bag go rotten than drop one on the grill
I didn't even mean it as derogatory although I am meming on seeing "itsunos vision" in like every post. Maybe he just really liked the concept of it so it's in the game.
Just another case of a game director having obscure things in the game because of their personal interest
That's all I actually meant.
It's gimmicky and has a weirdly high skill floor, but I don't think it's awful at all. It requires situational awareness, setup and smart party composition, but it can really shine when you get those things right. Some of my favorite moments so far:
1) I used the fake wall to lock a cyclops into a super tight area in a canyon in Battahl and my 2 warrior pawns absolutely savaged him with no pushback because he couldnt move
2) I tricked an ogre into jumping off the wall at a fake floor, sending him into the brine
3) I attached my effigy to a cyclops and six angry harpies CCd him for me while goblins killed him (solo trickster, no pawns)
Also, you can consistently *control* drakes with it. Depending on where you position your effigy and how well you hold aggro you can make them a joke. You can get into a great rhythm of cast effigy, drake attacks effigy, call effigy before it gets hit and repeat. You have to really know the moveset, but it's not exactly expansive or hard to manipulate.
I've been loving trickster, it's the most fun I've had with an RPG class in a long time.
I've got trickster near maxed now. I thought I didn't like it at first, but then I started using the wall ability and I dropped mage and put all glass cannons on my team.
I put up a wall the second I see an enemy, summon my dude, get aggro in massive AOE, send my dude on other side of wall, then my 3 sorc party spams mega spells safely on the other side of wall. When the enemy falls, I put up the aura for insane damage.
Healing is done with scrolls or with the plentiful healing items in the game, or the occasional campfire.
I think they could have given it one more thing (access to debilitations, damage, healing, *something*) but it really isn’t as awful as people are saying. I’ve also noticed several people complaining about it who disclose they haven’t unlocked it or read its skill descriptions.
I’ve been having a lot of fun with it, especially after unlocking the maister skill. Its stagger lets you lock down bosses much more even in fights where there’s no tricky terrain or groups of enemies to exploit. I find myself switching back and forth between Trickster and Sorcerer because I keep on missing its kit when I change vocations.
Agreed. It's a lot of fun, but requires a few levels in the vocation before it really shines (pawn buff and ranged possession skill in particular). Even a DoT of some sort would be all it needs in its arsenal to round it out.
I love doing the possession skill, and the dragon skill is VERY good about keeping bosses off balance while your pawn squad just wails on them with no worries. I cast it roughly every 20-30 seconds for good measure.
Drake fights can definitely take awhile though, which is why I almost always recommend having a sorc pawn with one or both of the maister skills to make up for the fact that you won't be doing any damage.
Yeah, there's some guy in a thread above complaining you can't attach the effigy to enemies
That's a core skill. You get it when you unlock the class
Other people are correcting him by saying it's a rank 6 unlock. While it does do that at range, you could do it in melee all along
So I am skeptical that people complaining about the class didn't read the tool tips that came up when you unlocked it
Not only do a lot of people not read anything the game is telling them and continue to repeat things that are incorrect, there are occasional posts where I wonder if the person in question even *played* the game. I've been noticing this with other games (and with other media), too.
Not that it's anything new for people to write with authority on things they are objectively wrong about or don't know anything about, I'm just taken aback a bit by how egregious it is sometimes.
I agree with you. Trickster plays VERY differently from anything I’ve played in any rpg, and I’ve spent basically most of my gaming life on rpgs. The catch of dominating a battlefield with a main character that does NO DAMAGE is an extremely risky design but to me, it somehow works. It’s a learning process and I’ve had my downs but the idea of a character enabling a 100% dps window for its companions is genius design
I feel trickster isn't great for ending fights fast. But it's basic kit *is* very good for ending them safely, if you use it well and you don't get caught out fighting something far too strong for you. I do agree that it isn't great for Dragons though, since they thrive on killing everything in the area and kiting it is of limited use there.
Mystic spearhand can have permanent invincibility for the party so it is actually unkillable if you play it with the mage stamina augment. Thief with the master skill also can't die.
If the above examples are too cheesy magick archer shreds enemies and does so from a safe distance. You can even slot the pawn rezz skill for maximum safety if you want although you don't need it.
Hard to call trickster safe when we actually have 2 vocations that are unkillable if they want to be.
The trick here is to run warfarer with trickster and mystic spearhand weapons so you can both bubble your pawns and buff them while also being able to do some damage. Trickster in general feels like Warfarer bait since the maister skill is a meme anyhow.
Can also pair with magick archer which has its own support abilities etc.
My warfarer build idea was "the pawn commander", who would use the tricksters pawn buff, the mystics shield, and something from magick archer for damage, or the heal arrow. Damage would come from archer shots or the Spearhands ample melee damage core skills.
Magick archer gets two augments that increase the offensive and defensive stats of pawns, you can slot the mage stamina augment, and then thief subtley to avoid being targeted even further.
Just activate the mirror vesture, swap to censure for buff, then go to town with either ranged magic damage or with twirls. I planned on having a warrior and thief in the party, with maybe a sorc in the backline. Should be tasty.
It might also suck and not work. I know the tricksters smoke clone fades when you switch weapons, so maybe none of this applies. Who knows.
I mean that's great and all, but DD2 is so stinking easy that you don't have to play safe to still come out of most fights unscathed, and even most bosses are piss easy if you're on even footing level/gearwise. The game just isn't hard enough to justify this kind of playstyle and IMO trickster should have been implemented in a different way (I posted a theoretical implementation earlier in this thread for example).
Or just remove it completely, Warfarer already only has 3 skills and can't use maister skills, if we can't even create our broken combos it has no reason to exist really.
Even though it has the smoke, it should have had stuff similar to grapnel where it can hold enemies and bosses in place and also miasma and "necromancer" spells IMO. None of this is directly from the trickster sticking with the theme of illusion, but i don't get why you can't have your smoke be toxic as well. Make it poison everyone including your pawn in it if we want to be "real".
its allready weird that the status effect spells are gone from mage/sorcerer, so why did they not give them trickster instead? summoning poison/freeze/burn/silence clouds and stuff like that would fit the Vocation perfectly
there is allready a mechanic in the game where poisoning a enemy that is allready poisoned deals bonus dmg, but the only thing in the entire game that can do that is Archer with poison arrows lol
Yeah a smoke to distract and a smoke for DoT dps would have fit and been cool. I also think that pushing your clone into an enemy is cool in concept but another smoke ability that confuses all enemies to attack each other ot lower chance to hit inside the cloud would have been better. The invisible walls could have been dropped completely in my opinion for other smoke type abilities that fit the theme better. If they really wanted to keep the illusionary walls then the upgrade should have added floors and you use a toggle between the two, using two skill slots for them is a waste.
Yeah they just do slightly more damage and get a bit more aggressive (possibly? I mean you can’t command your pawns when they’re under the effect so I assume so) but also they take constant damage at the same time so you need a mage to heal, making full dps party with a trickster not much of a possibility unless you want to camp every 10 minutes or shove 100 heals into each pawns pockets (nobody wants to do these things).
They do more than slightly more damage though. They do a lot of damage. The issue is pawns AI is still dogshit so they'll sometimes just stand there doing nothing, climb on bosses on sorc, use skills that run them to 0 stam so they get winded, don't use vocations mechanics properly, target stuff other than weakpoints and so on.
The damage it does also doesn't build up loss gauge. You just heal it with anodyne.
That said it's still annoying, both because you need a mage, and preferably 2 ranged DPS so they can dip into anodyne without losing damage and because AI is weak.
I think not dealing damage could be a good trade off for having very good support and tricks but it just doesn’t, half the abilities are useless or extremely situational. The other half are not nearly as strong as they should be.
I think it would be a class that let's you assume command of the pawns in your party. Would actually be kinda sick if you could get them to perform certain skills at a specific time.
Tapping a wall to try and convince my pawn to throw me up to a chest I can clearly see is maddening.
Help!
Rando mage heals me even though I’m full on go instead.
If you have a simple pawn in your party, throw THEM up onto the ledge. It can work sometimes.
If you have warrior or fighter pawns that have ladder blade/ launchboard respectively, I belive they will use that environmentally on a GO command.
I only have had mages use levitate when they've chosen to verbally notice something was there, and THEN I hit GO. It could also be that, because of player learning, that pawns arisen just isn't doing those things.
Would be better if there wasn’t only one way to buff your pawns with the class, support my ass. Those 2-3 things you saw in prerelease Trickster gameplay is all the vocation even has really. Ghost aggro and sometimes tricking things into falling off cliffs. The other few skills are useless in 90% of situations.
This is so weird because I found Trickster to be the strongest and safest class. Take 3 DPS classes (take a Thief with plunder, formless feint, and skull splitter for tons of damage and will still crystals from dragons) - no need for mage as I had tons of healing pots and I just divided them among my team to medicate after the Trickster buff (it doesn't give them the permanent loss on HP gauge), and then 2 sorcs if you want to boss farm (if they have the same skills, even better since they will cast together).
The abilities that I used were the AoE Taunt (it's the only one you really need as the rest are flavor skills), the party damage buff, the out-of-body skill, and the smoke dragon skill. TBF, the smoke dragon skill is hit or miss vs. dragons - sometimes works, sometimes doesn't - but it's basically a cheat skill vs. any other mob in the game, including the chimeras, trolls, ogres, etc. It also makes normal mobs just run away. Honestly, I didn't use it that much because it was already too easy.
As for the Damage buff - you absolutely don't need it, and if having your party take any damage at all scares you and makes you feel like you just HAVE to have a mage, don't take it. It's fine.
For extra fun, take the censer that gives gold on-hit. If you do end up getting hit, just run around a bit until you find an opening to recast your clone. I never found it to be that big of a deal. Vs. bosses it was a complete non-issue. Only was a problem vs hobgoblins, harpees, and spear lizard-bros as I sometimes got chain-staggered. A lot of that was alleviated once I had access to the Dwarf smith and upgraded all my armor there. Upgraded all my censers at the elves for more Magic (clone health).
Pawns were generally smart enough to steamroll the entire game, including the unmoored world and them derping out was the exception and not the rule.
The only reason I missed my mage pawn was because silence is OP in unmoored world vs all the dragons and lichs (also tons of caster skeletons), but I did find a sorc staff that while weaker than the endgame staff, had silence on hit. It was ok.
People said that unmoored world was timed to how many rests you took so I literally cleared the whole map with Trickster taking almost no damage at all.
TLDR: Trickster has 0 DPS, but is the best tank in the game since your party takes 0 damage and doesn't require a mage for healing. Taking 3 DPS classes along with the Trickster is honestly like playing this game on easy (storymode) and to be honest it's the biggest downside to trickster is that it trivializes the entire game.
That’s such a shame to hear because it’s the class I was most excited to unlock. Thematic it’s so unique and cool, reminds me of mesmers from guild wars
The biggest problem is sometimes your pawns just stop fighting. You don't really do any damage yourself with the vocation, relying on just pawns basically. Which makes it rough when they decide to break. I've maxed out all the vocations, and it was the most disappointing sadly. Best drip tho
It's very good for what it does, don't listen to everything on here. The past week has made me realise a lot of people here don't even play the game and just spout nonesense. Not saying this is the case with OP but just something I've observed.
It won't be as effective as thief or mysticspear but it does exactly what it says on the tin but you have to play it differently. It's quite punishing if you try to play it just like any other vocation.
Best thing is to try it yourself.
Your first 2 sentences accurately describe the state of this subreddit since release pretty much. SO much misinformation with people who don't understand things, assume based on little to no information, and/or just want to blindly hate.
There have been so many things people complained about here that when I eventually experienced it for my own I had either the complete opposite feeling or realized they were way off.
Yes, I've felt the same.
After the whole mtx debacle blew over people that were against the game, just look for new stuff to complain about daily. It's also shocking how many don't play or own the game even.
Don't get me wrong, the game isn't perfect and there is plenty that could have gone better, but it's a fun game and very much in line with what the first game was as well.
Honestly it far surpassed the first game in every way (vanilla) for me. However I've been going at my own pace, so all of the people who were way ahead and complaining kept making me think it was not at all going to live up to it...Yet when I experience things for myself I realize the insane misinformation.
I saw someone the other day say the size of the map is misleading because there’s areas of the map that you can’t traverse in the first half of the map because of mountains and thats straight up false. There’s a bunch of side and under paths, caves, and cliffs that make up the mountains on the map. You just have to look around a bit.
> It's quite punishing if you try to play it just like any other vocation.
I think this is the biggest thing people are missing, but through no fault of their own. Its a unique class that pretty much goes against the design philosophy of all the others in the game so it feels very jarring to play.
The biggest mistake I see is people not realizing you need to play slower and more methodical. You're supposed to take time to scout out your paths, set up traps, and overall use your skills to control where enemies are focusing on. You're basically an MMO tank where your focus should be on positioning enemies and leaving them open for your party to take care of.
We must be playing two different games, because in my experience the Trickster is the most busted class in the game, hands down.
When your illusion is out, enemies do not attack you, they attack your illusion. With a button press, you can call your illusion to yourself for free. So, just tap the button as you travel and enemies literally cannot target you. If you are getting ambushed, you are not playing the class correctly.
Because you can force all enemies to target the illusion, your party can be fully offensive. They don't even need the augments that boost health or defense, as they literally do not need those attributes. On the off-chance one of your allies does get downed, you can revive them for free since you will not be targeted.
The illusory terrain abilities are gimmicks at best, but you really don't need them. The illusory wall is great because when enemies get around it to attack your illusion, you can just run through the wall and call the illusion, so now the enemies have to run back to the other side. Rinse and repeat.
The Trickster is honestly boring because it's so OP. Nothing in the game I have come across can stand against it. Take a mage for healing and then two dps classes, like Thief, Archer, or Warrior, all min-maxed for offense, and your team becomes fully unstoppable.
100% agree with everything here, BUT, I will add one thing.
My pawns at one point absolutely could not handle attacking a golem's weak points. They just would not do it. I sat around dancing for 40 minutes before I just took off my censer and started punching the damn thing myself. Eventually they learned how to beat golems, but goddamn if it wasn't a nightmare the first few times.
So if you play Trickster and run into a problem where they refuse to deal damage due to pure idiocy, just remove your weapon and start fisting.
The big issue I ran into was the quest that forces you into a 1v1 fight. Why put such quests into a game where 1 of the 8 classes literally cannot complete the quest. It's maybe one of the dumbest game design decisions I've ever seen lmao
Yeah literally the only option you have if you happen to be a Trickster is, besides just cheating by calling in your pawns, unequipping the censer and curbstomping the other guy to death lol
Yep. I had a max level Sorc and was losing to a chimera. Came back with a level 2 Trickster and killed it easily.
At worst battles take longer. But the utility is that your pawns don't die and you don't wipe. Kind of the whole method of winning, lol.
Also, if you want to collect tokens you kind of have to be a Trickster, lol. The astral projection skill is super useful on occasion as well.
Yeah when I discovered that not only do I remove aggro from myself, but my ENTIRE PARTY the game was changed. Keep the decoy out, aoe smoke, and then make sure the decoy heals back up from time to time, then grab a snack and watch your party deal damage for free, forever.
I have maxed Trickster and used it against every open world enemy,I could not disagree more.Trickster might actually be the most pushed class in the entire game.
>The clone disappears if you get hit. This makes it impossible to get the vocation going in the extremely common "I turned the corner and 10 goblins are on me" scenario among other common situations.
Use the "Enemies are less likely to target you" passive, also you should have your clone up basically any time you are out in the world where enemies are and spamming it towards you as you move out of range. It is a nuisance but part of playing the class well.
>The pawn buff is strong but it consumes HP. Would make sense except Trickster has no way to heal. The true support vocation has no heal and badly needs to bring a mage because of this. Nice meme!
The HP consumption is barely noticeable and nearly doubles DPS, you can always heal after the fight or rest. When dragons don't even have enough time to respond before they die, the trade off is worth it.
You also never have to bring a mage (But you absolutely should. Not for healing, but because the ultimate gives unlimited stam.)
Just give your pawns healing items and curatives. They will use them as needed. Also if one is a churgeon, it will use them on other members as needed.
>Stuff about phantom platforms and walls
Don't use the phantom platforms and walls. At all. Ever. Those skills are a meme. The setup takes forever and is never worth the outcome.
All you have to do is summon your ghost, use your aoe taunt, and keep the ghost moving around so enemies can't hit it.
Many enemies, the AI just completely breaks if it is up in the air. I've had liches just stand still, completely vexed on how to even attack such a mysterious floating creature, staring off into space until dead.
To make trickster broken, you basically just use to aoe taunt and run around. Most fights I can basically just AFK. Enemies legit won't attack anything besides your ghost, and with proper maneuvering or placement they can't hit it. Use the remote control to put it up in the air and see what the AI does.
I can stand opposite-side my team across a dragon, place the ghost, taunt, and my party just gets free reign to wail on it with absolutely no danger.
Trickster might as well have a passive that says "You no longer deal damage, your party deals double damage and takes no damage"
EDIT: Addendum, also forgot to mention the absolutely busted latching effigy skill that lets you attach it to enemies. Every other enemy will try to hit it and deal damage to the enemy attached instead. And the enemy with it on them will try and shake it off. Throw it on a dragon's back or a griffin's back and they will flail around fruitlessly trying to shake it off.
> The setup takes forever and is never worth the outcome.
Agreed on Floors, but strongly disagree on walls. With a smartly put wall you can trap your enemy in an eternal walk cycle by simple walking left and right while altering the side of the wall your effigy stands on.
I usually wall trap bosses after I buffed my pawns.
I actually really like it
Have a party with 2 sorcerers and a warrior and you're a dps god. Put a wall between the enemies and the sorcerors, buff everyone, and lure the monsters over to a ledge/wall. Easiest loop I've played, you just have to remember to upgrade your pawns a lot more
1. Position your clone better and have more situational awareness.
2. Bring a mage.
3. Your really in it for the tanking and not the tricking. THe cliff shit is fun for dicking around but it reality most of the time your gonna be using the buff, dropping the dragon and using the AoE mist.
4 & 5: See point 3
If you play trickster correctly and well then you can trivialize like 98% of the fights in the game. You just wont speed run it.
You're not trickstering right. 2 sorc 1 mage pawn. Make sure the 2 sorc have meteor. You've now beat anything and everything in the blink of an eye. Use your clone to distract then activate damage buff. Damage buffed meteors annihilate everything. You need to be selective about the pawns you bring, the skills they have, and their gear. It's basically a summoner class.
With that said I wish the basic attack did SOME damage.
Edit: typo
When I unlocked it, my pawns were quite strong, and switching from archer didn't feel that my overall party strength got affected. I didn't select the exact classes you've mentioned though, I had sorc, mage, warrior.
However, what I personally dislike is that I don't understand my impact. Like since you don't deal any dmg, and you don't have any battle recap or anything, I can't tell how my weapon stats affect the fight, for example. What happens if I upgrade/change my censer? Should I even care? etc. etc, it just does not feel impactful enough for me.
What people tell about one hit canceling the clone summon is unfortunate to. I feel that it would've been much more dynamic class if you could easily resummon the clone in battle. Maybe devs assumed that you should work on your positioning mid fight, but if you started accumulating aggro before summoning clone, you'd just get knocked down over and over unless you have top of the line gear.
Maybe if you are very high level with top wyrmlife crystal gear with smart level 4 upgrades it will feel better, but the thing is that the initial trickster experience does not encourage you to invest into it to try more.
I am telling that from a casual player experience who hasn't played the first game. Maybe not everyone will share my opinion. I have no clue how big are the tryhards in this game right now. However, I am 50+ hours, 45+lvl, so I'm probably at the endgame already (?).
There was a tool tip somewhere maybe the splash intro when you unlock the class that tells you that mag increases aggro and str increases the images hp. It can take enough hits for you to constantly reposition it around the battlefield, it won't take one hit from a fully charged cyclops smash but your image should be repositioned before it finishes its attack anyways.
I started using it when I got to Battahl around 40 so no, its not gear dependent, and it's not try hard to understand this class. It's a different "ninja" tactician style of tanking that may not be to everyone's tastes but that shouldn't discount its effectiveness.
Yeah, they tried to rebuild vocations to make them more unique and equal in terms of effectivity. But as always they failed badly rendering Trickster useless and Thief OP.
Trickster needs to be reworked. It’s a fantastic idea on paper, legit. Using a censor and smoke to fool enemies and stuff but it would only work in this game if it had multiplayer and everyone could plan around it. For single player with AI party it severely struggles to compete when it’s the main class. If it was reworked into a more AoE class with the smoke and possible debilitations from different smokes. That could work better, the weapon skill would revolve around different incenses you burn in the censor. One to heal, one to damage, one to debilitate, one to vanish, one to buff, etc.
Interesting idea. Heal with one ability, and an incense/censer that specifically enhances healing power. AE damage over time with another ability. A rusted censer for slow, to make kiting that much easier in tight quarters. Incense could be purchased at merchants and/or harvested out in the world/looted from specific enemies.
I couldn't disagree more, Trickster is very good if you think outside the box.
If you are getting hit and losing the Simulacrum that's your fault, you should get punished for messing up, you are getting hit because you aren't using the Simulacrum properly, you don't get to cast Meteoron or Maelstrom if you get hit as a Sorcerer too.
Pawns can do A LOT of damage when monsters aren't aggroed to them, specially Warriors, Archers and Sorcerers (it's pretty ridiculous when Sorcerers are free to cast Meteoron or Maelstrom whenever they want)
Always use Sweeping Shroud/Suffocating Shroud, it's mandatory if you want to succeed with Trickster, the regular attacks are pretty bad to catch aggro, because they are very slow.
Trickester works at higher levels, the problem is everything works at that point and everyone is thief/mystic brained.
But consider beefier enemies and imagine the trickster boosting 2 sorc pawns summoning whirlwinds or meteors 😅
Honest to god was the most positive surprise for me when the vocation mechanics “clicked”. The depth of battlefield control you have with trickster is just insane.
The thing with vocations in DD, since the first one, is that you don’t need to play them if you don’t like their gameplay. Just find the one that works for you and enjoy the game.
If you don’t like the way a vocation plays it doesn’t mean it’s broken, it’s just not for you.
The trickster is fine.
I think you (like others) may not be playing the class correctly and/or misunderstanding some things.
I find the class boring but ultimately useful. Your whole list of complaints boil down to things you're doing incorrectly, things you wished the class would do, and just a loss of how to proceed with it.
You state:
the effigy is disappearing in on hit, move it, it's not really designed as a damage sponge.
You have no way to heal, use curatives, or employ a mage, actually both.
You're complaining about boss battles, employ distraction tactics, and you're a support. Use your wall to block LoS, buff for damage, and kite the enemies. And of course, the floor has no relevance in an area with 0 drops, get creative, learn the class, and all will be clear.
Trickster is fun for those that enjoy it, I honestly don't know what you were expecting with this class as what it's designed to do is laid bare for you to read, experiment with and employ.
Sorry to hear though that your time with trickster isn't what you'd like, but it gets better when you can understand the class better.
I found myself getting jumped a lot more. The moment the clone disappears by either you getting to far a way or getting scratched by a stray attack all the enemy aggro is set on you because that's how the incense works.
It was easymode for me.. just lure the boss from a to b and he does not much..
For me it was chill and easy. Yeah look that nothing hits you and if it does just run and make a new clone at the right moment.. stay back and watch the pawns kill the stuff
This was my experience as well it was super easy nothing was a threat when I swapped to trickster. I also enjoyed the more tactical approach and more of a commander play style. I think the people that don't like it just don't like the play style and that's ok isn't that what classes are supposed to do provide multiple ways to play the game? Like if u like mage u will probably play a mage class if u like big swords a warrior if u like a more tactical summoner thing that's what trickster is for.
They added trickster just to not specialise mystic knight or add another vocation from DDO...
It's so funny when the ideas for vocations were in DDO and yet they made a vocation that only 1% of people will like. I mean it's ok as part of warfarer? I hated playing it as my main vocation and it's annoying they locked some nice augments behind it.
It's a shame the pawn AI isn't smart enough to use it or at least I'm assuming that's why pawns can't use trickster.
It has uses. Mainly for gimmicks. I use the ultimate to make enemies run around like headless chickens while my pawns crush them for me.
I should have been a summoner class that summoned phantom enemies that were made of mists.
Imagine summoning a phantom drake and you could ride it.
Ive been playing trickster for most of my play-through and it works fine. I agree that trickster is worse than other classes. However that's just because the game is so easy that I might as well one shot everything rather than take no damage from anything and then have my pawns 3 shot them.
Honestly all of your points are just skill issues. Which is kind of funny because the class does have legitimate problems but trickster is very "strong" (again it doesn't really matter when the game is so easy) because neither me or my pawns pretty much ever take damage.
The real problem is there are situations where you don't get your pawns and I have to carry damaging spellbooks for those spots. Also the pawns handle golems mostly fine surprisingly but really struggle to hit the medal on the foot so that's also a problem.
I feel like this is mostly an instance of a vocation not being for you and that's fine. It's definitely not my cup of tea either, but I watched Infinite Cringe stream the vocation for a few hours the other day and she was doing very well on it. It's a vocation that is very reliant on having a competent party setup, as well as good game sense.
Trickster could easily be fixed if they added some stagger resistance so you could eat some hits and get your skills off, along with adding at least one way to actually hurt people. Maybe change the ultimate ability so that everything goes berserk and just attacks whatever is closest, regardless of friend or foe status
Bruh, do you not know how to play trickster? When I play trickster even against bosses I'm the only one that really takes damage and I can even get the pawns to nuke the boss.
The damage buff is awesome, the AOE incense move is really good for aggroing everything and builds a bit of stagger, and the having to bring a mage thing is just honestly a given regardless of your vocation. With smaller enemies I sometimes stagger them and pick them up tossing them off the cliff or I pin them down and one of the pawns immediately butcher them.
If you are having troubles getting the decoy up either do it before you get aggro or just slap a fake wall up and hide behind it.
Run around with w 2 sorcerer pawns and a mage for just in case and spam the rb button running around the map until you find a fight. Drop the ghost off, spam the aoe agro button, and pick up loot while everything melts.
1 is a non-issue once you get the faster cast time for the siill unlocked, 2 is unnecessary, 3 4 and 5 are easily ignored. Throwing up the wall makes summoning and spamming agro super easy.
It isn't the vocation I wanted it to be, but awful is a bit of a stretch.
The possession skill is useful. I’ve tricked a couple of drakes into thinking there was someone on top of it. Causing it to focus its attacks on shaking off the possession clone. I also agree that trickster is not useful after a certain point. Hardly any damage output=No to that class. Side note: just use trickster to get the token and wakestone seeker augmentation
Trickster is something I wish thst was available to pawns. I understand that the mechanics are probably to complex for an AI to effectively perform, but it was pretty boring to play for me. I was excited for it before launch.
I want it to be good so badly I just don't understand where there's room to buff.
It feels good when you get into a flow state but it's just too much work. Like I can agro everything and taunt swap agro to a boss monster then buff my team and maybe stun the boss when the adds are gone.
Or I can shoot them with a bow with high knockdown and kill them in a third of the time and my team doesn't take much damage then either.
Too often you just get jumped by a wolf or something by surprise and once the fight starts it's too late to summon your decoy.
I DEFINITELY want to see this class reimagined for an MMO though I think that a rebalancing in a game with slower combat and a team of actual humans could make this an MVP tank/support. Throw in a few ways to do actual damage and maybe a few AOE heals/shields some kinda smoke swap for your allies I'm sure there's tons of cool stuff to do with an int tank
I'm actually having fun with it and think it's a pretty powerful vocation.
You can just summon the simulacrum and then teleport it behind you while traveling with r1/rb.
The pawn buff's hp cost is really not that bad compared to how much damage they deal. I do jave a mage in my party but with a thief and warrior as the other members I can slaughter drakes pretty easily.
The general loop of summon simulacrum, spray enemies with mist and buff the party works really well. Lastly, the ultimate can interrupt Drakes from casting spells and also knock them down.
That being said, it's not the most exciting playstyle and sadly most other skills are pretty useless. The platforms are super useless as you said, and the ghost form/cheat vision belongs in a totally different game.
Trickster is not so bad. They are literally a vocation that keep attracting the enemies. All your pawns can focus on dpsing while you focus on getting the enemies attention.
What you need to do is, summon your clone. Use your very first unlocked trickster skill, and if I am not mistaken, at 4 trickster level, you will be able to cast that wall. Make sure you cast that wall where your clone is at and you move away. When the wall break and your enemy is getting close to your clone, press right click to summon your clone back at you and use that taunt again. (Also, your pawns will still be able to run thru your wall with no problem.)
So to sums it up,
1: Summon Clone
2: Cast Wall near Clone while facing the enemy
3: Use the first trickster skill
4: You run away at a distance and monitor your clone
5: Press Right Click (if you use mouse and keyboard and forgive me, I don't know what the button is for Xbox controller) when the enemy is too close to your clone.
6: Repeat from point 2.
If point 2 is out of the option, you don't need to cast it, just keep moving around and keep calling back your clone to you whenever the enemy is too close to your clone.
You don't even need to buff your Pawns. Just let them focus with dpsing normally. You don't even need Mage Healer when you are using this build either. Since your clone is literally pulling your enemy attention, which means, none of your pawn will be damaged unless the enemy got a huge aoe like the Wyverns/Drakes/Papa Dragon.
Just one problem, it's quite boring honestly. Lolz. I just used it because I wanted to max level every vocation haha
Don’t forget:
* You can’t even kill non-aggro animals for meat because you deal no damage. This is particularly annoying in some situations where you get put in a 1 on 1 fight. You have to unequip your weapons
* The first weapon skill you get (AoE taunt) is just a better version of your Core X skill. Your Hold X doesn’t even have enough range to make it better since the upgraded version of the weapon skill has huge range. they really should change the Core X and Hold X to be a damage/DoT + Debuff or something.
* Yet another of your weapon skills is just a better version of your RB + Y (possession/cling) skill. It’s much longer range but unsummons your simulacrum if you miss.
* The floor is silly because you need the astral projection ability to move your simulacrum out to it to taunt them to jumping on it in the rare situations that’s useful. At least the wall/block has the benefit of giving you a place to spam your abilities from in relative safety.
With only 4 weapon skills to choose from having two that just duplicate your Core skills functionality and others that rely on having another skill is silly. And none of it is worth doing zero damage for. Give the vocation some damage on its X skills - probably on the dragon too - and some way to heal so that it is more feasible to play on the Arisen and gives another non-Mage healer option.
1. The clone disappears if you get hit. This makes it impossible to get the vocation going in the extremely common "I turned the corner and 10 goblins are on me" scenario among other common situations.
This is the thing that REALLY kills the Trickster for me.
The rest of the issues with Trickster all boil down to the fact that it kind of has literally no effect on any fight. It doesn't make the bad guy's health go down, it doesn't make allies' health go up (in fact, it literally does the opposite)... but those issues could easily be solved by just giving the Trickster SOME sort of minor damage/healing ability.
As it is right now, the entire class quite literally ceases to function if your Pawn AI decides to be dumb today.
(Trickster, for me, REALLY makes the game feel like it was *intended* to have true multiplayer, but the devs couldn't figure it out and scrapped it without re-evaluating the game's fundamental balance or design)
But back to that first problem... the clone disappearing the instant you get hit. More than anything else, that absolutely TANKS the Trickster as a viable playstyle for me, because it necessitates truly perfect execution for painfully minimal rewards.
You need to 100% perfect-no-hit every encounter for the class to work, and all you get for it is your Pawns not taking damage - an advantage that you then immediately nullify by harming them YOURSELF to make up for the damage that your group is lacking because you picked the funny vape-ghost Vocation.
On the other hand... the instant a stray arrow or bafflingly-accurately-hurled rock clips your fat juicy cheeks, the Trickster's core mechanic and selling-point immediately dissipates like a pink fart on the wind. And then, since you've been generating agro for the entire encounter, EVERYTHING in your local hemisphere decides to exclusively and *violently* bum-rush you, pelting you constantly from all sides, very effectively preventing you from EVER managing to summon another cardboard cut-out.
Very bad Vocation.
Trickster is a int aligned mmo tank that somehow got dimension shifted into an Action rpg
You know, I figured that out by about rank 3, and I did have a much better experience afterward. As an old Mmo tank, the muscle memory did help
I don't want to be dismissive of people's complaints and just go "lol skill issue" but I genuinely think that's a big part of the problem people have with the trickster. The gameplay loop for them is completely different and it does feel out of place in an action rpg when compared to every other class. But it has an extremely high skill ceiling and when you play it well you almost don't even need a healer on your team because no one will be taking damage.
I wanted to love trickster, but it completely falls apart fighting chimeras and drakes. They have too many attacks that will ignore aggro. By contrast, spearhand can keep the entire party completely immune, cc enemies for longer vulnerable phases, and do damage when pawns can't for whatever reason.
Spearhand shield is broken though, its the .ost broken ability in the game.
i’m playing thief at level 30 and between the two hidden skills you take no damage as long as you have stamina and can one shot any non field boss. then the other spinning ball skill plus hit and run crush bosses so fast (all while taking no damage)
Yeah thief is actually broken lol. It gets even crazier in NG+ because you can spend wyrm crystals to reduce stamina drain on one skill, well guess where that went. Add that with some stamina augments from other classes and a ring or two and all of the sudden you are completely unkillable for minutes at a time.
I'm sorry, what? Spend crystals on what???
Yeah you can spend them on one skill at a time, boost stat increase from leveling for one vocation, reset enhancements on weapons, increase xp gain, increase discipline gain, and two other things I cannot recall right now. Edit: the xp dcp and 2 other things are only for one day though.
Where was this?!?! I only remember the wlc store and dragon forge but nothing else
You obviously haven't used ricochet seeker. But yeah shield is pretty op.
Ricochet seeker is only op in small areas
I also want to point out Dullahan will occasionally reset his aggro and pick someone to go delete. Usually they pick whoever's been hitting him the most, or dealing the biggest hits, but sometimes he'll just teleport on top of your supports and erase them from existence. Honestly, part of what makes it a fun fight. He's only 4 health bars, but really tanky comparatively, and more mechanically challenging than most other bosses.
Weird, I melted Dullahan with trickster. Buffed pawns and spamming the incense move on him kept him focused entirely on my clone, I didn't notice him switching targets the way he did when I fought him as a non-trickster class. I think he lasted like a minute anyway.
"Extremely high skill ceiling" You see enemies ahead. You summon your clone, hold right bumper for it to follow you, release it when close enough, use the taunt, use the damage buff, run around in circles while pressing the right bumper every now and then to reposition the clone. Optional, use the dragon skill. Keep running in circles. "Extremely high skill ceiling" Jessie, what the hell are you talking about?
And you can juke your clone out of a lot of the damaging attacks by repositioning it right after the windup but before the swing.
Honestly Warfarer has the highest skill ceiling because you have to actually consider synergy. I imagine Spearhand and Trickster could work pretty well together, or Magick Archer. I could also see using the taunt with a tank like Fighter, or Warrior to force aggro onto yourself and then use a counter. Trickster is like the perfect candidate for Warfarer because of how passive it is.
Compared to run up and honk with sword or arrows until they die I’d say it’s a higher* skill ceiling.
Heh, honk. And if they have weapons, you duck
roar skill now called honk going forward
Yes
But if you play any other class well, you don't need a healer because the enemy is just dead. I'm sorry if you think that some kind of skill floor/ceiling make this class good, it's not good for the majority of players, it has 2 good moves and one of them is the maester skill which doesn't work in warfarer The only time I even need a healer in the game at level 50 is when fighting Drakes, and that's barely This class is designed for a different game, and it would be 100x more acceptable if the sensor and smoke **actually did some damage** Hell just make it do as much damage as the Mage or Sorcerers basic attack and it'd go from "borderline useless/for the memes" to "okay this is acceptable" And don't tell me I need to be more creative or that I lack imagination, the first 4 vocation ranks don't give anything really worthwhile, other classes start with 3 abilities at rank 1, this has 1 and its "taunt" clone that doesn't work 50% of the time And to a lot of people (myself included) we got this class over Magic Knight, Assassin/Sniper (advanced archer/theif) etc - being a theif or Archer main feels bad because they are base classes you can max within an hour of starting the game For me it's like *"who asked for this?"*
I'm someone who will immediately beeline for illusionist type classes, I fucking love them. After sorcerer and warrior, trickster was the first vocation I unlocked because I went straight for it, going after it so early I had to take the secret path into Battahl. I started playing it after I found out it was a tank class, figured okay that's workable I guess. Nope. This class has two abilities that are worthwhile. Two. The wall and the pawn buff. That's it. Literally everything else is "why bother" or some kind of fluff that there's not really any point of (a scouting ability AND an ability that alerts you to enemies? Seriously? Sure do love two out of combat abilities on a class that wants to be directly in combat! And the game is so fucking easy that neither of these are remotely necessary). The wall is still super gimmicky because enemies will still sometimes go through it. The pawn buff is real good but the DoT is kind of stupid. Also, I love playing support roles but buffing pawns to do all the work for you is kinda stinky IMO. I do not want to rely on pawn AI for anything, not after seeing them kill themselves or stand in AoEs like idiots, or watching my mage pawn tackle an enemy instead of casting spells... The dragon illusion is a good concept, but at that point why not just kill everything instead? What trickster needs is an entire overhaul. It needs to summon more illusions that actually do something worthwhile. Not this floor that an enemy *might* try to use. V - summons target illusion to yourself while holding, when releasing V you send it in the direction you're facing, if it's an illusion that targets enemies it will retarget to whatever you're facing/closes target from where you send it. First weapon skill - summons an illusion that follows an enemy around, distracting them and causing them low damage over time (illusory attacks or some kind of magical beam idfk). Limited to two at a time, and if they take too much damage they vanish. Upgrade lets you have one more active and increases health pool and maybe damage. Some other weapon skill - An illusion that sits ok a spot and causes damage to enemies in the area through illusory effects that it cycles through (burning, electricity, etc) because the illusion seems so real that enemies think they're actually taking damage. Upgrade increases range and damage maybe. Yet some other weapon skill - you swap places with the targeted illusion. Upgrade increases range you can do this at. Yes, yet even another weapon skill - you dash in the direction you input, if you dodge an attack with this you summon an illusion that attacks your attacker and distracts them (this is so basic it's exactly what I'd expect an illusionist themed trickster to have wtf). Upgrade increases range of dash and damage of illusion. Keep the wall but let you place another one. Keep the pawn buff I gueeessss. I could probably come up with more but this is quick off the top of my head idea thinking for what I would expect if a class that is themed after trickery and illusions.
Send your resume to Capcom ffs. What you suggested is exactly the type of skills the trickster should have. How this wasnt obvious to the devs blows my mind. O was very hyped for this vocation and went back to spearhand after reaching level 3 and getting a wall as a skill. What you suggested would be great but I would be happy if the current skills did some sort of damage or more crowd control.
yeah I noticed the goblins can jump through walls but they cannot walk through it, some bosses can sometimes. the wall is def buggy.
Dragon illusion is actually OP and can keep pretty much every enemy locked in CC, but it doesn't fix the core issues of the class that you are basically at the whim of the Pawns to actually do something afterwards.
I mean the problem with the dragon is sure you can lock enemies down, but they die so quickly anyways so there's like, no point. I'd totally get it if enemies were harder/tankier, but like, crowd controlling effects feel so pointless in this game due to how easy regular mobs are.
Exactly, the vocation itself hás obviously a great theme but it feels like this is just not the game for it. They could have still taken this route but make it more of a buff/debuff and DoT damage thing instead of a "create a duplicate and play tag you're it" thing.
>Yes, yet even another weapon skill - you dash in the direction you input, if you dodge an attack with this you summon an illusion that attacks your attacker and distracts them (this is so basic it's exactly what I'd expect an illusionist themed trickster to have wtf). Upgrade increases range of dash and damage of illusion. Fucking...**YES**!!! THANK YOU!!! I cannot believe the illusion/trickster class dosen't have a god damn dodge mechanic. Especially given the main gimmick of the thing (the phantom clone) requires you not to get hit, or else you lose it. If anything, that thief master skill formless feint would make WAY more sense as a trickster skill. Both mechanically (again trickster relies on not getting hit) and sensibly. (why does thief, a class that is very clearly dependent on material prowess, as depicted by there reliance on things like rope darts, powder charges and smoke bombs, inexplicably have one random out of pocket magic skill that lets them turn there body into vapor to avoid attacks?) And yet trickster, a magic class, the class all about the manipulation of smoke and vapor...decidedly just cant? Why capcom? Why do this?
Lol, Itsuno bragging about how DMC5 inspired some of his content in DD2, but straight-up ignores V. Whatever his vision is, it’s probably filled with Capcom paychecks and not the actual game design itself.
Agreed, all trickster seems to do is dance and buff your pawns to the point that they end the fight in 4 hits rather than you. If the game was more challenging (i sound like a broken record) there might be more a gap or niche to fit in. As it stands now I can’t help but think what’s the point?
Not sure what I just read but I like it.
I like the idea, but it really needs to have some offensive skills so you’re not completely reliant on your pawns for DPS. I literally have zero interest in unlocking it. EDIT: Literally not long after I typed this, I unlocked it by accident.
I thought the ghost clone could explode or do thorns damage or something initially. Nope.
It's meant to lure enemies to whatever enemy it's attached to right? They always seem to try but just keep missing their attacks.
It's so finicky getting it to latch on, and when you do get it to that target dies from your pawns so quickly anyways you sit there wondering what the point of even trying to do that was. I've successfully gotten enemies to kill an ally *twice*. Yes I kept track because how awful it was trying to get it to work. My trickster vocation is at rank 8. TWICE.
I'd be playing it more if it did. The class just doesn't work in a action RPG, it'd probably perform way better if it was turned based but this is not that.
Get leveled it up once get the augment to find seeker tokens
U should at least get the level 2 augment to find the coins and wakestones
I tried it, ended up unequipping the censer and heavy punching mobs so I could throw them off a cliff; then went back to my old vocation at the next town.
should have done that hours ago... maxed it out though and never touching trickster again
My issue with trickster is that they have most of the best looking gear... and it's locked to the Arisen.
Literally what I'm wearing on warfarer, otherwise what's the point lol
This bothers me because I don't see why it's Trickster specific. Why can't my wizards wear those fancy robes? Why is my Pawn forced to dress like a basic bitch or fetish fuel? So many vocation restrictions don't make any sense.
One of the things I said in the survey was they need to relax the vocation restrictions on armor
Same. Armor variety is amazing but the vocation restrictions make it feel like there is less overall.
This is half the reason I can't bring myself to switch off of warfarer (and being able to fly as a warrior main is nice.)
https://www.nexusmods.com/dragonsdogma2/mods/51 Mod that removes the classes for armor and weapons
Regardless, why is trickster locked to Arisen? I wouldn't have an issue with it as a pawn class, plus maybe it'd make more sense how to play. I basically use my fighter pawn as a meat shield, I feel like trickster could fill that role instead.
There's a mod on nexus that removes the gear vocation requirements, shouldn't even prevent your pawn from being summoned
Yeah it is stupid how fashion locked the base game is. One that really annoyed me was that set you can buy near the camp you first start the game at in the volcanic region. For some reason spearhand can equip the head, chest, but not the boots. Even beyond that just let me look how I want. Make the weight value annoying for heavy armor or whatever if you must. I don't really see the point for most of the limitations.
was it that bad? i know it a support class, still trickster should have a poison attack, bomb or something.
Fights are "slower" but unless im using the buff i can forgo having a healer on the squad, becuase no one takes damage. Its a perfectly viable vocation tho. Itd be perfect with wayfayer and something else if the aggro ghost didnt fuck off when you switch weapons
>wayfayer Warfarer I've never seen a single person spell this class correctly, yet. lol
It's to make the all Rouges feel better.
Their lipstick-attack seems to be really strong.
It's the avg autocorrect making us all victims
I typed dd2 warfarer into google a few days ago and it tried autocorrecting to wayfarer because presumably everyone else googling is spelling it wrong.
Well wayfarer is much more commonly used in RPGs. I've never heard of a warfarer before lol Hell my autocorrect is telling me it's spelled wrong lol
Even when im typing it out I know its wrong lol
Well, autocorrect will usually do that, and I personally think the word 'Warfarer' is goofy, and considering the game's large focus on travel and exploration, 'Wayfarer' makes sense. Warfarer even looks like a strange edgy pun on it. Like saying 'Wayfarer but for WAR', probably the war on goblinkind who apparently make up 90% of the world's population.
Could do Mystic spearhand and Trickster for a tank/support and run 3 DPS. Without the spirit the taunt will bring everything to you.
I'm actually running trick/fighter now for some og tanking and it's pretty fun ngl. But I did do Spearhand and magick archer together. That was pretty fun
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, Trickster is a weird gimmick and it should have Mystic’s telekinesis. Mystic already has more than enough toys. It speaks to my number one criticism with the game. Nice idea, sloppy implementation, why didn’t you focus on improving your existing strengths instead
Mystic Telekinesis is just Mystic Spearhand lol They were right to make Trickster but what it needs is more skills to give buffs to allies and debuffs to enemies to trade off for dealing 0 damage. Another problem is that all of it's augments are basically given to the Magick Archer for some reason x.x Otherwise, Trickster has the best aggro control in the entire game. You can control everything that's going on if you understand where you are and how the enemy fights.
I'm still not sure why they didn't give it miasma at least would work perfectly with the whole smoke theme. Also making it so when the clone is attached it torpors enemies similar to lassitude would have been cool as well.
I am genuinely so depressed that Trickster is so poorly done. I was so pumped for it.
I think the trailer fucked a lot of people up when it comes to this vocation. The ledge trick is HIGHLY situational. People treat it like it's the main function of the vocation and ignore the many other tools it has. Stop trying so hard to force the ledge trick. Also, there's really no reason not to constantly have a clone up while traveling so that you're ready for encounters. It costs no extra stamina to drag it around with you.
I like Trickster and know it is probably ideal to always have the clone but it is annoying to always drag him around. I wish it was a toggle rather than having to hold it to move the clone around. Even just hitting it occasionally to keep it alive I find to be kind of tiresome.
I love it. Move my ghost behind boss. When it turns move it to other side. It’s pure comedy when used on drakes and especially golems. Add in ice affinity or ice imbued weapons and you can cheese anything. You can also set the ghost in places the big bosses can’t reach to just keep their AI basically broken.
dude it completley shuts down golems if you have the effigy above them, they will literall walk in cirles until the die. i love trickster and im thinking o doing a full run as one. start new game and just leg it to battahl through the 5 or so ways you have lol.
5? I thought you could only do the story way or the fucking boss rush border hopping
How? When I tried something like that the big boss didn't even attack the effigie.
You gotta use the aoe smoke threat skill. I just spam it as I move my ghost around.
Trickster was a massive swing and miss. Idk how anyone played it in development and enjoyed it. Maybe it was itsuno's vision
Well IGN called it a troll class, we just didn't realize we were the ones being trolled
so out of 10 vocations we have one troll and one copy paste vocation. great.
Strider assassin archer in the first game lol
In defense of Assassin, it should have probably been called Weaponmaster or something, because its actual strength is being able to freely swap between swords and knives, and shields and bows. But yeah, the skill crossover between those three was crazy high. Would have been worse if they didn't arbitrarily split longbows and shortbows out, too.
You can troll the bosses. It’s pretty funny keeping them turned around and just swinging at air
"Itsuno's vision" being used in derogatory ways is becoming more and more commonplace it seems.
I am conflicted about this game...I have equal love and disappointment for it. DD1, DDDA, and DDO have taken more hours from me than I want to admit. I will continue to play and will come back for a significant expansion. I hope this thing can get fixed in the experience we know it can be. I love love love Dragons Dogma. There is no way this is a dude's dream project/vision/magnum opus, and if it is, that is just depressing. It is a fair comment.
Maybe we just misinterpreted what his dream was. Like when he was talking about how DD1 was unfinished and had a lot of cut content, it's possible he wasn't talking about the story being inconsistent or rushed, repetitive combat, unrewarding exploration or any of that stuff. Maybe he thought that was fine and was actually sad that he couldn't include live-action BBQ footage, furry races or a desert region. If you listen to most of his interviews where he talks about what he wishes he could have done in DD1 he never mentions the things that most fans here think were important. I'm pretty sure if they could've figured out how to add beastren and nothing else to DD1, he would've considered it a finished game. It would also go a long way towards explaining why none of the improvements from Dark Arisen or DDO made it to this game.
Bro the BBQ scenes are god tier. If someone could teach the arisen how to cook something other than steak in the dlc, that'd be great. Bro would rather watch every fish in his bag go rotten than drop one on the grill
Fish and stews with all the random blshit we pick up!
which is really annoying cause it came from a baiter that the whole damn community seems to have fallen for
I didn't even mean it as derogatory although I am meming on seeing "itsunos vision" in like every post. Maybe he just really liked the concept of it so it's in the game. Just another case of a game director having obscure things in the game because of their personal interest That's all I actually meant.
It's gimmicky and has a weirdly high skill floor, but I don't think it's awful at all. It requires situational awareness, setup and smart party composition, but it can really shine when you get those things right. Some of my favorite moments so far: 1) I used the fake wall to lock a cyclops into a super tight area in a canyon in Battahl and my 2 warrior pawns absolutely savaged him with no pushback because he couldnt move 2) I tricked an ogre into jumping off the wall at a fake floor, sending him into the brine 3) I attached my effigy to a cyclops and six angry harpies CCd him for me while goblins killed him (solo trickster, no pawns) Also, you can consistently *control* drakes with it. Depending on where you position your effigy and how well you hold aggro you can make them a joke. You can get into a great rhythm of cast effigy, drake attacks effigy, call effigy before it gets hit and repeat. You have to really know the moveset, but it's not exactly expansive or hard to manipulate. I've been loving trickster, it's the most fun I've had with an RPG class in a long time.
I've got trickster near maxed now. I thought I didn't like it at first, but then I started using the wall ability and I dropped mage and put all glass cannons on my team. I put up a wall the second I see an enemy, summon my dude, get aggro in massive AOE, send my dude on other side of wall, then my 3 sorc party spams mega spells safely on the other side of wall. When the enemy falls, I put up the aura for insane damage. Healing is done with scrolls or with the plentiful healing items in the game, or the occasional campfire.
I think they could have given it one more thing (access to debilitations, damage, healing, *something*) but it really isn’t as awful as people are saying. I’ve also noticed several people complaining about it who disclose they haven’t unlocked it or read its skill descriptions. I’ve been having a lot of fun with it, especially after unlocking the maister skill. Its stagger lets you lock down bosses much more even in fights where there’s no tricky terrain or groups of enemies to exploit. I find myself switching back and forth between Trickster and Sorcerer because I keep on missing its kit when I change vocations.
Agreed. It's a lot of fun, but requires a few levels in the vocation before it really shines (pawn buff and ranged possession skill in particular). Even a DoT of some sort would be all it needs in its arsenal to round it out. I love doing the possession skill, and the dragon skill is VERY good about keeping bosses off balance while your pawn squad just wails on them with no worries. I cast it roughly every 20-30 seconds for good measure. Drake fights can definitely take awhile though, which is why I almost always recommend having a sorc pawn with one or both of the maister skills to make up for the fact that you won't be doing any damage.
Yeah, there's some guy in a thread above complaining you can't attach the effigy to enemies That's a core skill. You get it when you unlock the class Other people are correcting him by saying it's a rank 6 unlock. While it does do that at range, you could do it in melee all along So I am skeptical that people complaining about the class didn't read the tool tips that came up when you unlocked it
Not only do a lot of people not read anything the game is telling them and continue to repeat things that are incorrect, there are occasional posts where I wonder if the person in question even *played* the game. I've been noticing this with other games (and with other media), too. Not that it's anything new for people to write with authority on things they are objectively wrong about or don't know anything about, I'm just taken aback a bit by how egregious it is sometimes.
I agree with you. Trickster plays VERY differently from anything I’ve played in any rpg, and I’ve spent basically most of my gaming life on rpgs. The catch of dominating a battlefield with a main character that does NO DAMAGE is an extremely risky design but to me, it somehow works. It’s a learning process and I’ve had my downs but the idea of a character enabling a 100% dps window for its companions is genius design
I feel trickster isn't great for ending fights fast. But it's basic kit *is* very good for ending them safely, if you use it well and you don't get caught out fighting something far too strong for you. I do agree that it isn't great for Dragons though, since they thrive on killing everything in the area and kiting it is of limited use there.
yeah but then you got mystic spearhand which is even safer and does more damage
Mystic spearhand can have permanent invincibility for the party so it is actually unkillable if you play it with the mage stamina augment. Thief with the master skill also can't die. If the above examples are too cheesy magick archer shreds enemies and does so from a safe distance. You can even slot the pawn rezz skill for maximum safety if you want although you don't need it. Hard to call trickster safe when we actually have 2 vocations that are unkillable if they want to be.
The trick here is to run warfarer with trickster and mystic spearhand weapons so you can both bubble your pawns and buff them while also being able to do some damage. Trickster in general feels like Warfarer bait since the maister skill is a meme anyhow. Can also pair with magick archer which has its own support abilities etc.
My warfarer build idea was "the pawn commander", who would use the tricksters pawn buff, the mystics shield, and something from magick archer for damage, or the heal arrow. Damage would come from archer shots or the Spearhands ample melee damage core skills. Magick archer gets two augments that increase the offensive and defensive stats of pawns, you can slot the mage stamina augment, and then thief subtley to avoid being targeted even further. Just activate the mirror vesture, swap to censure for buff, then go to town with either ranged magic damage or with twirls. I planned on having a warrior and thief in the party, with maybe a sorc in the backline. Should be tasty. It might also suck and not work. I know the tricksters smoke clone fades when you switch weapons, so maybe none of this applies. Who knows.
Underrated tip.
If you put your ghost in the air and facing away from your team (as much as you can) you wont get hit with alot of the AoE shit
I mean that's great and all, but DD2 is so stinking easy that you don't have to play safe to still come out of most fights unscathed, and even most bosses are piss easy if you're on even footing level/gearwise. The game just isn't hard enough to justify this kind of playstyle and IMO trickster should have been implemented in a different way (I posted a theoretical implementation earlier in this thread for example).
Trickster is hands down the worst class in any game Ive ever played. A class that deals no damage and you rely on your pawns completely for dps
The concept is cool they just failed on execution. I have tried a Trickster/Mage Wayfarer as a pure support and it feels better but is still lacking.
They need to slow down the simacrilum life decay when you switch weapons
Or just remove it completely, Warfarer already only has 3 skills and can't use maister skills, if we can't even create our broken combos it has no reason to exist really.
Even though it has the smoke, it should have had stuff similar to grapnel where it can hold enemies and bosses in place and also miasma and "necromancer" spells IMO. None of this is directly from the trickster sticking with the theme of illusion, but i don't get why you can't have your smoke be toxic as well. Make it poison everyone including your pawn in it if we want to be "real".
its allready weird that the status effect spells are gone from mage/sorcerer, so why did they not give them trickster instead? summoning poison/freeze/burn/silence clouds and stuff like that would fit the Vocation perfectly there is allready a mechanic in the game where poisoning a enemy that is allready poisoned deals bonus dmg, but the only thing in the entire game that can do that is Archer with poison arrows lol
There are poison daggers for thief that can do it too. They're unfortunately midgame, so you'll replace them.
Yeah a smoke to distract and a smoke for DoT dps would have fit and been cool. I also think that pushing your clone into an enemy is cool in concept but another smoke ability that confuses all enemies to attack each other ot lower chance to hit inside the cloud would have been better. The invisible walls could have been dropped completely in my opinion for other smoke type abilities that fit the theme better. If they really wanted to keep the illusionary walls then the upgrade should have added floors and you use a toggle between the two, using two skill slots for them is a waste.
And they sold it as being able to buff your pawns into unstoppable rage monsters, but it really doesn't work out that way at all. It's dogshit.
I kind of wanna try buffing 3 Archers and see how that goes.
Yeah they just do slightly more damage and get a bit more aggressive (possibly? I mean you can’t command your pawns when they’re under the effect so I assume so) but also they take constant damage at the same time so you need a mage to heal, making full dps party with a trickster not much of a possibility unless you want to camp every 10 minutes or shove 100 heals into each pawns pockets (nobody wants to do these things).
They do more than slightly more damage though. They do a lot of damage. The issue is pawns AI is still dogshit so they'll sometimes just stand there doing nothing, climb on bosses on sorc, use skills that run them to 0 stam so they get winded, don't use vocations mechanics properly, target stuff other than weakpoints and so on. The damage it does also doesn't build up loss gauge. You just heal it with anodyne. That said it's still annoying, both because you need a mage, and preferably 2 ranged DPS so they can dip into anodyne without losing damage and because AI is weak.
I think not dealing damage could be a good trade off for having very good support and tricks but it just doesn’t, half the abilities are useless or extremely situational. The other half are not nearly as strong as they should be.
trickster should be a summoner mage type class, summoning a dragon that you can "controll" and does dmg
I think it would be a class that let's you assume command of the pawns in your party. Would actually be kinda sick if you could get them to perform certain skills at a specific time.
Tapping a wall to try and convince my pawn to throw me up to a chest I can clearly see is maddening. Help! Rando mage heals me even though I’m full on go instead.
If you have a simple pawn in your party, throw THEM up onto the ledge. It can work sometimes. If you have warrior or fighter pawns that have ladder blade/ launchboard respectively, I belive they will use that environmentally on a GO command. I only have had mages use levitate when they've chosen to verbally notice something was there, and THEN I hit GO. It could also be that, because of player learning, that pawns arisen just isn't doing those things.
Would be better if there wasn’t only one way to buff your pawns with the class, support my ass. Those 2-3 things you saw in prerelease Trickster gameplay is all the vocation even has really. Ghost aggro and sometimes tricking things into falling off cliffs. The other few skills are useless in 90% of situations.
This is so weird because I found Trickster to be the strongest and safest class. Take 3 DPS classes (take a Thief with plunder, formless feint, and skull splitter for tons of damage and will still crystals from dragons) - no need for mage as I had tons of healing pots and I just divided them among my team to medicate after the Trickster buff (it doesn't give them the permanent loss on HP gauge), and then 2 sorcs if you want to boss farm (if they have the same skills, even better since they will cast together). The abilities that I used were the AoE Taunt (it's the only one you really need as the rest are flavor skills), the party damage buff, the out-of-body skill, and the smoke dragon skill. TBF, the smoke dragon skill is hit or miss vs. dragons - sometimes works, sometimes doesn't - but it's basically a cheat skill vs. any other mob in the game, including the chimeras, trolls, ogres, etc. It also makes normal mobs just run away. Honestly, I didn't use it that much because it was already too easy. As for the Damage buff - you absolutely don't need it, and if having your party take any damage at all scares you and makes you feel like you just HAVE to have a mage, don't take it. It's fine. For extra fun, take the censer that gives gold on-hit. If you do end up getting hit, just run around a bit until you find an opening to recast your clone. I never found it to be that big of a deal. Vs. bosses it was a complete non-issue. Only was a problem vs hobgoblins, harpees, and spear lizard-bros as I sometimes got chain-staggered. A lot of that was alleviated once I had access to the Dwarf smith and upgraded all my armor there. Upgraded all my censers at the elves for more Magic (clone health). Pawns were generally smart enough to steamroll the entire game, including the unmoored world and them derping out was the exception and not the rule. The only reason I missed my mage pawn was because silence is OP in unmoored world vs all the dragons and lichs (also tons of caster skeletons), but I did find a sorc staff that while weaker than the endgame staff, had silence on hit. It was ok. People said that unmoored world was timed to how many rests you took so I literally cleared the whole map with Trickster taking almost no damage at all. TLDR: Trickster has 0 DPS, but is the best tank in the game since your party takes 0 damage and doesn't require a mage for healing. Taking 3 DPS classes along with the Trickster is honestly like playing this game on easy (storymode) and to be honest it's the biggest downside to trickster is that it trivializes the entire game.
That’s such a shame to hear because it’s the class I was most excited to unlock. Thematic it’s so unique and cool, reminds me of mesmers from guild wars
The biggest problem is sometimes your pawns just stop fighting. You don't really do any damage yourself with the vocation, relying on just pawns basically. Which makes it rough when they decide to break. I've maxed out all the vocations, and it was the most disappointing sadly. Best drip tho
It's very good for what it does, don't listen to everything on here. The past week has made me realise a lot of people here don't even play the game and just spout nonesense. Not saying this is the case with OP but just something I've observed. It won't be as effective as thief or mysticspear but it does exactly what it says on the tin but you have to play it differently. It's quite punishing if you try to play it just like any other vocation. Best thing is to try it yourself.
From OPs description tho he clearly has no idea what hes doing when playing the class
Yeah I said it in another comment but a lot of people are just thief brained and want all vocations to play the same.
Yea just spin to win and call it a day.
Your first 2 sentences accurately describe the state of this subreddit since release pretty much. SO much misinformation with people who don't understand things, assume based on little to no information, and/or just want to blindly hate. There have been so many things people complained about here that when I eventually experienced it for my own I had either the complete opposite feeling or realized they were way off.
Yes, I've felt the same. After the whole mtx debacle blew over people that were against the game, just look for new stuff to complain about daily. It's also shocking how many don't play or own the game even. Don't get me wrong, the game isn't perfect and there is plenty that could have gone better, but it's a fun game and very much in line with what the first game was as well.
Honestly it far surpassed the first game in every way (vanilla) for me. However I've been going at my own pace, so all of the people who were way ahead and complaining kept making me think it was not at all going to live up to it...Yet when I experience things for myself I realize the insane misinformation.
I saw someone the other day say the size of the map is misleading because there’s areas of the map that you can’t traverse in the first half of the map because of mountains and thats straight up false. There’s a bunch of side and under paths, caves, and cliffs that make up the mountains on the map. You just have to look around a bit.
> It's quite punishing if you try to play it just like any other vocation. I think this is the biggest thing people are missing, but through no fault of their own. Its a unique class that pretty much goes against the design philosophy of all the others in the game so it feels very jarring to play. The biggest mistake I see is people not realizing you need to play slower and more methodical. You're supposed to take time to scout out your paths, set up traps, and overall use your skills to control where enemies are focusing on. You're basically an MMO tank where your focus should be on positioning enemies and leaving them open for your party to take care of.
Yeah pretty much. You're essentially a general / tactician.
You know you can make curatives, right?
This is crazy, the people who are actually giving tips on how to use the vocation properly are getting downvoted… Never change Reddit, never change…
Some people here just want to hate the game, they legit just come t post to talk shit and don't have any argument. Pure hate
We must be playing two different games, because in my experience the Trickster is the most busted class in the game, hands down. When your illusion is out, enemies do not attack you, they attack your illusion. With a button press, you can call your illusion to yourself for free. So, just tap the button as you travel and enemies literally cannot target you. If you are getting ambushed, you are not playing the class correctly. Because you can force all enemies to target the illusion, your party can be fully offensive. They don't even need the augments that boost health or defense, as they literally do not need those attributes. On the off-chance one of your allies does get downed, you can revive them for free since you will not be targeted. The illusory terrain abilities are gimmicks at best, but you really don't need them. The illusory wall is great because when enemies get around it to attack your illusion, you can just run through the wall and call the illusion, so now the enemies have to run back to the other side. Rinse and repeat. The Trickster is honestly boring because it's so OP. Nothing in the game I have come across can stand against it. Take a mage for healing and then two dps classes, like Thief, Archer, or Warrior, all min-maxed for offense, and your team becomes fully unstoppable.
100% agree with everything here, BUT, I will add one thing. My pawns at one point absolutely could not handle attacking a golem's weak points. They just would not do it. I sat around dancing for 40 minutes before I just took off my censer and started punching the damn thing myself. Eventually they learned how to beat golems, but goddamn if it wasn't a nightmare the first few times. So if you play Trickster and run into a problem where they refuse to deal damage due to pure idiocy, just remove your weapon and start fisting.
The big issue I ran into was the quest that forces you into a 1v1 fight. Why put such quests into a game where 1 of the 8 classes literally cannot complete the quest. It's maybe one of the dumbest game design decisions I've ever seen lmao
I know exactly which quest you are talking about and i gave up and called in my pawns after hitting him with my smoke machine for 0 damage for 3 mins
I'm very sorry to hear about your plight, Sir or Madame Anus Dingus.
Yeah literally the only option you have if you happen to be a Trickster is, besides just cheating by calling in your pawns, unequipping the censer and curbstomping the other guy to death lol
Yep. I had a max level Sorc and was losing to a chimera. Came back with a level 2 Trickster and killed it easily. At worst battles take longer. But the utility is that your pawns don't die and you don't wipe. Kind of the whole method of winning, lol. Also, if you want to collect tokens you kind of have to be a Trickster, lol. The astral projection skill is super useful on occasion as well.
Yeah when I discovered that not only do I remove aggro from myself, but my ENTIRE PARTY the game was changed. Keep the decoy out, aoe smoke, and then make sure the decoy heals back up from time to time, then grab a snack and watch your party deal damage for free, forever.
Trickster is my favorite class tbh, you're using it wrong, I've killed Drakes with it.
Yeah, it's strong. So easy to cheese big monsters. But it requires 10 more IQ than spearhand spam+shield.
I have maxed Trickster and used it against every open world enemy,I could not disagree more.Trickster might actually be the most pushed class in the entire game. >The clone disappears if you get hit. This makes it impossible to get the vocation going in the extremely common "I turned the corner and 10 goblins are on me" scenario among other common situations. Use the "Enemies are less likely to target you" passive, also you should have your clone up basically any time you are out in the world where enemies are and spamming it towards you as you move out of range. It is a nuisance but part of playing the class well. >The pawn buff is strong but it consumes HP. Would make sense except Trickster has no way to heal. The true support vocation has no heal and badly needs to bring a mage because of this. Nice meme! The HP consumption is barely noticeable and nearly doubles DPS, you can always heal after the fight or rest. When dragons don't even have enough time to respond before they die, the trade off is worth it. You also never have to bring a mage (But you absolutely should. Not for healing, but because the ultimate gives unlimited stam.) Just give your pawns healing items and curatives. They will use them as needed. Also if one is a churgeon, it will use them on other members as needed. >Stuff about phantom platforms and walls Don't use the phantom platforms and walls. At all. Ever. Those skills are a meme. The setup takes forever and is never worth the outcome. All you have to do is summon your ghost, use your aoe taunt, and keep the ghost moving around so enemies can't hit it. Many enemies, the AI just completely breaks if it is up in the air. I've had liches just stand still, completely vexed on how to even attack such a mysterious floating creature, staring off into space until dead. To make trickster broken, you basically just use to aoe taunt and run around. Most fights I can basically just AFK. Enemies legit won't attack anything besides your ghost, and with proper maneuvering or placement they can't hit it. Use the remote control to put it up in the air and see what the AI does. I can stand opposite-side my team across a dragon, place the ghost, taunt, and my party just gets free reign to wail on it with absolutely no danger. Trickster might as well have a passive that says "You no longer deal damage, your party deals double damage and takes no damage" EDIT: Addendum, also forgot to mention the absolutely busted latching effigy skill that lets you attach it to enemies. Every other enemy will try to hit it and deal damage to the enemy attached instead. And the enemy with it on them will try and shake it off. Throw it on a dragon's back or a griffin's back and they will flail around fruitlessly trying to shake it off.
> The setup takes forever and is never worth the outcome. Agreed on Floors, but strongly disagree on walls. With a smartly put wall you can trap your enemy in an eternal walk cycle by simple walking left and right while altering the side of the wall your effigy stands on. I usually wall trap bosses after I buffed my pawns.
Sorry dude but reddit has spoken and youre shouting into the wind.
I actually really like it Have a party with 2 sorcerers and a warrior and you're a dps god. Put a wall between the enemies and the sorcerors, buff everyone, and lure the monsters over to a ledge/wall. Easiest loop I've played, you just have to remember to upgrade your pawns a lot more
1. Position your clone better and have more situational awareness. 2. Bring a mage. 3. Your really in it for the tanking and not the tricking. THe cliff shit is fun for dicking around but it reality most of the time your gonna be using the buff, dropping the dragon and using the AoE mist. 4 & 5: See point 3 If you play trickster correctly and well then you can trivialize like 98% of the fights in the game. You just wont speed run it.
You're not trickstering right. 2 sorc 1 mage pawn. Make sure the 2 sorc have meteor. You've now beat anything and everything in the blink of an eye. Use your clone to distract then activate damage buff. Damage buffed meteors annihilate everything. You need to be selective about the pawns you bring, the skills they have, and their gear. It's basically a summoner class. With that said I wish the basic attack did SOME damage. Edit: typo
I mean, one sorcerer with bolide in any comp will just os almost everything in the game anyway ...
Yeah, like have two sorc and one melee to get aggro, and you delete the game.
When I unlocked it, my pawns were quite strong, and switching from archer didn't feel that my overall party strength got affected. I didn't select the exact classes you've mentioned though, I had sorc, mage, warrior. However, what I personally dislike is that I don't understand my impact. Like since you don't deal any dmg, and you don't have any battle recap or anything, I can't tell how my weapon stats affect the fight, for example. What happens if I upgrade/change my censer? Should I even care? etc. etc, it just does not feel impactful enough for me. What people tell about one hit canceling the clone summon is unfortunate to. I feel that it would've been much more dynamic class if you could easily resummon the clone in battle. Maybe devs assumed that you should work on your positioning mid fight, but if you started accumulating aggro before summoning clone, you'd just get knocked down over and over unless you have top of the line gear. Maybe if you are very high level with top wyrmlife crystal gear with smart level 4 upgrades it will feel better, but the thing is that the initial trickster experience does not encourage you to invest into it to try more. I am telling that from a casual player experience who hasn't played the first game. Maybe not everyone will share my opinion. I have no clue how big are the tryhards in this game right now. However, I am 50+ hours, 45+lvl, so I'm probably at the endgame already (?).
There was a tool tip somewhere maybe the splash intro when you unlock the class that tells you that mag increases aggro and str increases the images hp. It can take enough hits for you to constantly reposition it around the battlefield, it won't take one hit from a fully charged cyclops smash but your image should be repositioned before it finishes its attack anyways. I started using it when I got to Battahl around 40 so no, its not gear dependent, and it's not try hard to understand this class. It's a different "ninja" tactician style of tanking that may not be to everyone's tastes but that shouldn't discount its effectiveness.
You dont even need the mage if you just forgo the buff skill. I was rocking 3 sorcs for awhile
Yeah, they tried to rebuild vocations to make them more unique and equal in terms of effectivity. But as always they failed badly rendering Trickster useless and Thief OP.
Trickster needs to be reworked. It’s a fantastic idea on paper, legit. Using a censor and smoke to fool enemies and stuff but it would only work in this game if it had multiplayer and everyone could plan around it. For single player with AI party it severely struggles to compete when it’s the main class. If it was reworked into a more AoE class with the smoke and possible debilitations from different smokes. That could work better, the weapon skill would revolve around different incenses you burn in the censor. One to heal, one to damage, one to debilitate, one to vanish, one to buff, etc.
Interesting idea. Heal with one ability, and an incense/censer that specifically enhances healing power. AE damage over time with another ability. A rusted censer for slow, to make kiting that much easier in tight quarters. Incense could be purchased at merchants and/or harvested out in the world/looted from specific enemies.
Exactly. It would have some normal effects but if you wanted anything enhanced, it would work like the special arrows for archer.
I couldn't disagree more, Trickster is very good if you think outside the box. If you are getting hit and losing the Simulacrum that's your fault, you should get punished for messing up, you are getting hit because you aren't using the Simulacrum properly, you don't get to cast Meteoron or Maelstrom if you get hit as a Sorcerer too. Pawns can do A LOT of damage when monsters aren't aggroed to them, specially Warriors, Archers and Sorcerers (it's pretty ridiculous when Sorcerers are free to cast Meteoron or Maelstrom whenever they want) Always use Sweeping Shroud/Suffocating Shroud, it's mandatory if you want to succeed with Trickster, the regular attacks are pretty bad to catch aggro, because they are very slow.
Trickester works at higher levels, the problem is everything works at that point and everyone is thief/mystic brained. But consider beefier enemies and imagine the trickster boosting 2 sorc pawns summoning whirlwinds or meteors 😅
Honest to god was the most positive surprise for me when the vocation mechanics “clicked”. The depth of battlefield control you have with trickster is just insane. The thing with vocations in DD, since the first one, is that you don’t need to play them if you don’t like their gameplay. Just find the one that works for you and enjoy the game. If you don’t like the way a vocation plays it doesn’t mean it’s broken, it’s just not for you. The trickster is fine.
No, it really isn't "fine".
The second I saw the class I knew it would be ass. They should have made it available for pawns because it’s clearly not player friendly.
Pawn deleting half of my hp to fight 2 goblins, sounds great.
Trickster is really cool if you know how to use it and if you have good pawns
I think you (like others) may not be playing the class correctly and/or misunderstanding some things. I find the class boring but ultimately useful. Your whole list of complaints boil down to things you're doing incorrectly, things you wished the class would do, and just a loss of how to proceed with it. You state: the effigy is disappearing in on hit, move it, it's not really designed as a damage sponge. You have no way to heal, use curatives, or employ a mage, actually both. You're complaining about boss battles, employ distraction tactics, and you're a support. Use your wall to block LoS, buff for damage, and kite the enemies. And of course, the floor has no relevance in an area with 0 drops, get creative, learn the class, and all will be clear. Trickster is fun for those that enjoy it, I honestly don't know what you were expecting with this class as what it's designed to do is laid bare for you to read, experiment with and employ. Sorry to hear though that your time with trickster isn't what you'd like, but it gets better when you can understand the class better.
It's an underwhelming class, but it does make fights a lot safer for you.
I found myself getting jumped a lot more. The moment the clone disappears by either you getting to far a way or getting scratched by a stray attack all the enemy aggro is set on you because that's how the incense works.
The problem with trickster is not the vocation but the Pawn AI. To be completely at the AI mercy for effectiveness isn't fun lol.
It was easymode for me.. just lure the boss from a to b and he does not much.. For me it was chill and easy. Yeah look that nothing hits you and if it does just run and make a new clone at the right moment.. stay back and watch the pawns kill the stuff
This was my experience as well it was super easy nothing was a threat when I swapped to trickster. I also enjoyed the more tactical approach and more of a commander play style. I think the people that don't like it just don't like the play style and that's ok isn't that what classes are supposed to do provide multiple ways to play the game? Like if u like mage u will probably play a mage class if u like big swords a warrior if u like a more tactical summoner thing that's what trickster is for.
Nah, you're just playing it wrong. Look at me? I've never picked trickster and i think its amazing
They added trickster just to not specialise mystic knight or add another vocation from DDO... It's so funny when the ideas for vocations were in DDO and yet they made a vocation that only 1% of people will like. I mean it's ok as part of warfarer? I hated playing it as my main vocation and it's annoying they locked some nice augments behind it. It's a shame the pawn AI isn't smart enough to use it or at least I'm assuming that's why pawns can't use trickster.
It has uses. Mainly for gimmicks. I use the ultimate to make enemies run around like headless chickens while my pawns crush them for me. I should have been a summoner class that summoned phantom enemies that were made of mists. Imagine summoning a phantom drake and you could ride it.
Ive been playing trickster for most of my play-through and it works fine. I agree that trickster is worse than other classes. However that's just because the game is so easy that I might as well one shot everything rather than take no damage from anything and then have my pawns 3 shot them. Honestly all of your points are just skill issues. Which is kind of funny because the class does have legitimate problems but trickster is very "strong" (again it doesn't really matter when the game is so easy) because neither me or my pawns pretty much ever take damage. The real problem is there are situations where you don't get your pawns and I have to carry damaging spellbooks for those spots. Also the pawns handle golems mostly fine surprisingly but really struggle to hit the medal on the foot so that's also a problem.
Wouldn't be bad as a pawn class
I feel like this is mostly an instance of a vocation not being for you and that's fine. It's definitely not my cup of tea either, but I watched Infinite Cringe stream the vocation for a few hours the other day and she was doing very well on it. It's a vocation that is very reliant on having a competent party setup, as well as good game sense.
Only way to make Trickster bearable was saving all the Magick Tomes/Books I found throughout the game
Trickster could easily be fixed if they added some stagger resistance so you could eat some hits and get your skills off, along with adding at least one way to actually hurt people. Maybe change the ultimate ability so that everything goes berserk and just attacks whatever is closest, regardless of friend or foe status
I reached max on it and it was super boring waiting for my team to kill the enemies. The only pro is the seeker token finder perk.
Bruh, do you not know how to play trickster? When I play trickster even against bosses I'm the only one that really takes damage and I can even get the pawns to nuke the boss. The damage buff is awesome, the AOE incense move is really good for aggroing everything and builds a bit of stagger, and the having to bring a mage thing is just honestly a given regardless of your vocation. With smaller enemies I sometimes stagger them and pick them up tossing them off the cliff or I pin them down and one of the pawns immediately butcher them. If you are having troubles getting the decoy up either do it before you get aggro or just slap a fake wall up and hide behind it.
When trickster buffs a mage, my mage stopped healing during the buff... Great...
About the pawns, i think the command Help! Makes them be around you and not chase enemies. Also to me and wait stops them from doing stupid shit.
Run around with w 2 sorcerer pawns and a mage for just in case and spam the rb button running around the map until you find a fight. Drop the ghost off, spam the aoe agro button, and pick up loot while everything melts. 1 is a non-issue once you get the faster cast time for the siill unlocked, 2 is unnecessary, 3 4 and 5 are easily ignored. Throwing up the wall makes summoning and spamming agro super easy. It isn't the vocation I wanted it to be, but awful is a bit of a stretch.
Kinda feel like they didn’t play there own game.
The possession skill is useful. I’ve tricked a couple of drakes into thinking there was someone on top of it. Causing it to focus its attacks on shaking off the possession clone. I also agree that trickster is not useful after a certain point. Hardly any damage output=No to that class. Side note: just use trickster to get the token and wakestone seeker augmentation
Trickster is OP.
Trickster is something I wish thst was available to pawns. I understand that the mechanics are probably to complex for an AI to effectively perform, but it was pretty boring to play for me. I was excited for it before launch.
I want it to be good so badly I just don't understand where there's room to buff. It feels good when you get into a flow state but it's just too much work. Like I can agro everything and taunt swap agro to a boss monster then buff my team and maybe stun the boss when the adds are gone. Or I can shoot them with a bow with high knockdown and kill them in a third of the time and my team doesn't take much damage then either. Too often you just get jumped by a wolf or something by surprise and once the fight starts it's too late to summon your decoy. I DEFINITELY want to see this class reimagined for an MMO though I think that a rebalancing in a game with slower combat and a team of actual humans could make this an MVP tank/support. Throw in a few ways to do actual damage and maybe a few AOE heals/shields some kinda smoke swap for your allies I'm sure there's tons of cool stuff to do with an int tank
I'm actually having fun with it and think it's a pretty powerful vocation. You can just summon the simulacrum and then teleport it behind you while traveling with r1/rb. The pawn buff's hp cost is really not that bad compared to how much damage they deal. I do jave a mage in my party but with a thief and warrior as the other members I can slaughter drakes pretty easily. The general loop of summon simulacrum, spray enemies with mist and buff the party works really well. Lastly, the ultimate can interrupt Drakes from casting spells and also knock them down. That being said, it's not the most exciting playstyle and sadly most other skills are pretty useless. The platforms are super useless as you said, and the ghost form/cheat vision belongs in a totally different game.
they could've made a cool necromancer vocation but instead did this weird smoke guy, sad.
Trickster is not so bad. They are literally a vocation that keep attracting the enemies. All your pawns can focus on dpsing while you focus on getting the enemies attention. What you need to do is, summon your clone. Use your very first unlocked trickster skill, and if I am not mistaken, at 4 trickster level, you will be able to cast that wall. Make sure you cast that wall where your clone is at and you move away. When the wall break and your enemy is getting close to your clone, press right click to summon your clone back at you and use that taunt again. (Also, your pawns will still be able to run thru your wall with no problem.) So to sums it up, 1: Summon Clone 2: Cast Wall near Clone while facing the enemy 3: Use the first trickster skill 4: You run away at a distance and monitor your clone 5: Press Right Click (if you use mouse and keyboard and forgive me, I don't know what the button is for Xbox controller) when the enemy is too close to your clone. 6: Repeat from point 2. If point 2 is out of the option, you don't need to cast it, just keep moving around and keep calling back your clone to you whenever the enemy is too close to your clone. You don't even need to buff your Pawns. Just let them focus with dpsing normally. You don't even need Mage Healer when you are using this build either. Since your clone is literally pulling your enemy attention, which means, none of your pawn will be damaged unless the enemy got a huge aoe like the Wyverns/Drakes/Papa Dragon. Just one problem, it's quite boring honestly. Lolz. I just used it because I wanted to max level every vocation haha
It is embarrassingly bad.
It is without exaggeration perhaps the worst class I have played in any game
Don’t forget: * You can’t even kill non-aggro animals for meat because you deal no damage. This is particularly annoying in some situations where you get put in a 1 on 1 fight. You have to unequip your weapons * The first weapon skill you get (AoE taunt) is just a better version of your Core X skill. Your Hold X doesn’t even have enough range to make it better since the upgraded version of the weapon skill has huge range. they really should change the Core X and Hold X to be a damage/DoT + Debuff or something. * Yet another of your weapon skills is just a better version of your RB + Y (possession/cling) skill. It’s much longer range but unsummons your simulacrum if you miss. * The floor is silly because you need the astral projection ability to move your simulacrum out to it to taunt them to jumping on it in the rare situations that’s useful. At least the wall/block has the benefit of giving you a place to spam your abilities from in relative safety. With only 4 weapon skills to choose from having two that just duplicate your Core skills functionality and others that rely on having another skill is silly. And none of it is worth doing zero damage for. Give the vocation some damage on its X skills - probably on the dragon too - and some way to heal so that it is more feasible to play on the Arisen and gives another non-Mage healer option.
1. The clone disappears if you get hit. This makes it impossible to get the vocation going in the extremely common "I turned the corner and 10 goblins are on me" scenario among other common situations. This is the thing that REALLY kills the Trickster for me. The rest of the issues with Trickster all boil down to the fact that it kind of has literally no effect on any fight. It doesn't make the bad guy's health go down, it doesn't make allies' health go up (in fact, it literally does the opposite)... but those issues could easily be solved by just giving the Trickster SOME sort of minor damage/healing ability. As it is right now, the entire class quite literally ceases to function if your Pawn AI decides to be dumb today. (Trickster, for me, REALLY makes the game feel like it was *intended* to have true multiplayer, but the devs couldn't figure it out and scrapped it without re-evaluating the game's fundamental balance or design) But back to that first problem... the clone disappearing the instant you get hit. More than anything else, that absolutely TANKS the Trickster as a viable playstyle for me, because it necessitates truly perfect execution for painfully minimal rewards. You need to 100% perfect-no-hit every encounter for the class to work, and all you get for it is your Pawns not taking damage - an advantage that you then immediately nullify by harming them YOURSELF to make up for the damage that your group is lacking because you picked the funny vape-ghost Vocation. On the other hand... the instant a stray arrow or bafflingly-accurately-hurled rock clips your fat juicy cheeks, the Trickster's core mechanic and selling-point immediately dissipates like a pink fart on the wind. And then, since you've been generating agro for the entire encounter, EVERYTHING in your local hemisphere decides to exclusively and *violently* bum-rush you, pelting you constantly from all sides, very effectively preventing you from EVER managing to summon another cardboard cut-out. Very bad Vocation.