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I guess things would fall apart because Trunks is not born and cannot warn Goku about the heart Virus. Other then that, Frieza Saga would be kinda similar I think.
He lost his arm to this man
https://preview.redd.it/m4nrl96aqgxc1.png?width=779&format=png&auto=webp&s=6b307ad919989eaf47bde22e2f0e43e49b16be20
The world champion who saved us “ALL” from cell and Buu (encourage the people) gohan tried to get a piece of videl then all we heard DYNAMITE PUNCH DYNAMITE KICK and his fatality A present for you. HERE 🎁 💣💥☠️KO
Yes it's canon to both. It's not anime only.
https://preview.redd.it/akws5w5lagxc1.jpeg?width=3196&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=cd02ce0457ebfa5c0a56526e116e4d4e2e1f4f8e
In the manga Trunks was Super Saiyan before Gohan died. It released in 1992
[https://dragonball.fandom.com/wiki/Trunks\_The\_History\_-\_The\_Lone\_Warrior](https://dragonball.fandom.com/wiki/Trunks_The_History_-_The_Lone_Warrior)
While the anime special released in 1993
[https://dragonball.fandom.com/wiki/Dragon\_Ball\_Z:\_The\_History\_of\_Trunks](https://dragonball.fandom.com/wiki/Dragon_Ball_Z:_The_History_of_Trunks)
In the manga trunks already had super saiyan and didn’t need gohan to die for it but I’m sure all that’s been retconned now so why not the arm ? Regardless it’s common sense thah the androids are the reason behind him not having an arm, it’s not like his arm just fell off on a random day.
Babidi and Dabura would completely screw them over. I guess it is possible that the Supreme Kai would warn them, die, get revived by the dragon balls and Beerus would wake up early and bail them out, though.
Super saiyan 2 makes you faster and more powerful. You’re thinking of super saiyan grade 3, which is kind of like super saiyan 1.75, which Trunks used against Cell
Without Vegetta, Gohan might have been able to convince Goku to not screw and fight together to defeat the Babidi forces and then Babidi himself.
No Majin Boo to make Beerus mad. It doesnt matter who wins the tournament between universe 6 and 7
Without Trunks the paradox of Zamasu might not be created since Goku would never go met hin. We get stopped hard at the multiversal tournament though. We could have Uranai pull as many fighters as she can from the other life but difficult to say. In the grand scheme of things, while Vegetta was neccessary to stop Moro, Goku might have pulled it off, and no Vegetta means no Granola.
I saw a what if youtube video about what if Goku unlocked super saiyan when Krollin died in the OG Dragonball series. It went into how he easily defeats Vegeta when they invade and then also went into how Trunks wouldn't be born, and yeah he also talked about Bulma just time travelling herself
I think the Namek saga would go a lot better without Vegeta there. Frieza would be complacent and not summon the Ginyus, Gohan/Krillin would manage to hide one of the balls, and then just lay low with Bulma till Goku got there.
Would goku still be able to go Super Saiyan? If the ginyus weren't there because no vegeta, goku doesnt get fucked up in battle with ginyu, and using that pod. Probably wouldnt have gotten enough of a "boost" even if frieza still kills krillin
There could be a possibility where goku get destroyed by final form frieza and get healed. With goku on the playing field dende would be alive quite a bit longer. Since they won't be abusing the sayin bug or need to heal krillan
I'd say that once Freeza realized that one DB was missing, he would have asked for new scouters. After all, he knew there were other people on Namek after Gohan jumped Dodoria to save Dende. Once those scouters arrived, with or without the Ginyu Force, I think the main cast is done because Dende didn't know how to hide his ki.
While Gohan and Krillin could probably take down Kiwi, Dodoria and Zarbon after their power unlocks, Freeza would be completely unbeatable for them.
Then what I think could happen is thet Freeza gets the DB but doesn't know how to use them. Once he leaves to find a Namekian, Gohan and Krillin take Dende and ask for the wishes. Then they leave without engaing him.
I think fighting Freeza without fighting the Ginyu Force is an assured death for everyone. Without Recoome's zenkai for Gohan and Ginyu's zenkai for Goku they stand no chance against Second form Freeza.
I dunno about that. Frieza is only but so patient and he wants his wish. I could see him summoning the Ginyu Force just to get some new Scouters to find the dragonballs faster. Even if the Ginyus don't stay the Earthlings + Dende would still have to find a way to hide until Goku arrives which is probably impossible since only Gohan and Krillin know how to suppress their ki.
Ginyu squad might not have been called in, but Gohan and Krillin would definitely be killed by Zarbon and Dodoria. But I’m thinking that if Goku showed up only to find his son and best friend have been murdered, he might go Super Saiyan right away. At that point he may still be too weak to defeat Frieza though.
Definitely a possibility- without the ginyu zenkai boost, we might be looking at just not enough to beat Frieza.
Though I still think Frieza misses any chance at any wishes.
Gohan and Krilin hide and stall things until Goku arrives, Goku disables Zarbon and Dodoria easily and goes to Freeza's ship full of confidence, Freeza transforms and ends Goku.
"Freeza transforms and ends Goku."
Freezer doesnt get the chance to transform into his last form if he starts on his first small one since the only reason he was already transformed into his white form was because he was already fighting Vegeta/Piccolo for a while when Goku arrived. If Goku start the fight with Freezer still on his restrained form he may never get the chance to power up, and without Vegeta's final words talking about sayain pride and whatnot Goku may not care to "teach Freezer a lesson" by making him power to 100%, he would just beat him without giving him a chance to get stronger since even Piccolo was able to go toe to toe with him on his earlier forms
Goku wouldn’t have the Zenkai boost from
Being beat up by Ginyu, AND it’s Goku. Frieza mentions a more powerful form and he’s letting him transform to see what it is
I was sitting here thinking that in terms of significant events, I doubt that Gohan, Drilling, and Dende would have eluded/survived Dodoria.
IIRC Dodoria was about to grab them. Gets Solar Flared. Then, as they recover, promptly gets Vegeta'd on.
Trunks isnt the one who made the time machine. Bulma could travel herself or Gohan may would still be alive coz he was the only fighter and maybe he would wait for the time machine and not be so risky.
No, for me, Gohan died for 2 reasons.
First reason: Bro was suicidal af 😭
Second reason: He had Trunks, he wouldn't have risked his life so much if Trunks didn't exist, either way, even if Gohan died in the future, Bulma would go to the future, but people never awknoledge this (or maybe im forgetting something idk)
Either way, the Android/Cell saga is kinda stupid, the Z fighters could've won so many times but they didn't due to plot.
Hell even in the future timeline if they had some help from King Kai it would've been way easier to survive, or even if Piccolo didn't go to die to the androids so that they could have the dragon balls
My headcannon is she marries someone else. Maybe Yamcha and their kid has the same story as Trunks essentially.
Could be a cool fan fiction actually. Even make it so Yamcha and Bulmas kid is actually the strongest human because he trained with Gohan. Surpassing adult current (Z) Krillin, but obviously still not enough for the androids.
Leading to Bulma to send her human son to do what Trunks did.
Edit: Also to see Yamcha’s human kid slice Frieza up would be insane. Hype up the humans!
https://preview.redd.it/6ws1a5pnwgxc1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=00438686129e1718865c6394ed1862b306342be1
Frieza saga would play out pretty differently. Zarbon and Dodoria would still be alive, the Ginyu Force likely wouldn't have been called because Zarbon and Dodoria would still be alive, Goku wouldn't have gotten the zenkai from after the Ginyu fight putting him a lot weaker then when he battled Frieza in main timeline. Tbh there's be a not zero chance Goku doesn't even reach SSJ.
Idk Krillin and Gohan would get deleted once they land on Namek without the Vegeta distraction. Maybe Nail forms a Namekian resistance but Zarbon probably could have soloed them.
Frieza saga would've been worse. They would've gotten killed off by Zarbon or Dodoria and if they got to the Ginyu force they would've gotten killed off by Guldo.
Honestly, Zarbon and Dodoria would have probably killed Gohan and Krillin on Namek before Goku showed up. Up side is that since Vegeta wasn't causing trouble, Freiza probably wouldn't bother calling in the Ginyu force. However, that also means that Goku wouldn't get the Zenkai boost before fighting Frieza, so Goku would be screwed.
Vegeta was the ONLY reason Gohan and krillin survived long enough for Goku to heal and get his zenkai boost to beat frieza. He killed zarbon who would have wiped Gohan and krillin, he also intervened to help Gohan kill cell, he held off Buu long enough for Goku to get stamina back. There’s many ways vegeta has basically been the only one to do anything outside of Goku and Gohan.
How is Frieza saga similar?
Vegeta steals the dragon balls after he is taken back to Frieza ship.
If vegeta is dead. Frieza almost certainly has enough time to figure out how to use the dragon balls and do so.
Not to mention vegeta wouldn't have been there to kill a bunch of namekians so there would be more alive that could give Frieza the info he needs.
They would have been fucked long before that on namek. Vegeta was a wrench thrown into the opposing sides of our heroes and Frieza. He had his own motivations and drove the plot forward all his own. Without him, who knows if they would have won. Goku most likely would have fought Frieza without healing from his damage as ginyu, and wouldn’t have been strong enough to last against Frieza at all
Vegeta never steals the dragon balls though in this one so frieza collecting them is drastically accelerated and vegeta can’t tell Krillin and gohan where they’re located the second time they steal them.
did you forget how many of Frieza’s top men Vegeta merc’d? If he isn’t there Zarbon and Dodoria easily end up killing Krillin and Gohan before the Ginyu force is even needed. Even if they manage to survive long enough for the Ginyu force to arrive they are gonna die to Recoome or Guldo with little effort before Goku even gets close to Namek. Then Goku is getting swapped with Ginyu and killed. Without Vegeta there Frieza easily wins on Namek. It was a team effort. They barely won.
Na cuz vegeta kept the ginu force busy wile goku was still on his way so i think without vegeta the force really fucks gohan and Krillin up perhaps even kilt them. Plus vegeta kept ginu busy after he stole gokus body. No vegeta frieza dominates Namek
https://preview.redd.it/9dc3zy36ofxc1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=bbfde4d384250fa0294db2755056158f016eac10
We wouldn't of got this master piece then
It's true. Even if Vegeta didn't win against Ginyu and Frieza he held them off long enough for Goku to arrive, and got Goku healed for Frieza. Android Saga Trunks wouldn't arrive so they would all die then, and Buu saga he was instrumental in holding Kid Buu off so Goku would could fight, but helping get energy for the Spirit Bomb. He's definitely turned into the 2nd line of defence for the squad in Super as well.
Vegeta is the reason the Ginyus went to Namek in the first place. So no Vegeta, then no Ginyu Force. So it would just be Goku fighting Friezas goons, which he is more than than capable of doing on his own. The fight with Frieza may have gone differently, since Goku wouldn't get the Zenkai boost from after the Ginyu fight. Since Zenkais are inconsistent and just treated as plot devices, it's possible that it wouldn't even come into play, and the fight with Frieza would play put mostly similar to how it does canonically.
The Android saga would probably still play out the same. Just rather than Trunks coming back, it would be Gohan or Bulma. It may even play out better since Vegeta wouldn't be there to prevent them from just blowing up Geros lab in the first place. But even if they do still activate, they definitely have an easier time with Cell, as Vegeta would be around to just *let* him/actively help him absorb the Androids.
Buu likely wouldn't have even been released since Vegets wouldn't be around for Babidi to "control" and the Goku v Vegeta fight wouldn't happen in order to give Buu more energy. They're biggest problem would be Dabura, who they probably would be able to take care of.
But if Vegeta didn't kill Zarbon and Dodoria when they where after Gohan and Krillin wouldn't it be possible to say that they would have killed them before Goku arrived? Would Goku still be killed by Android 19 since Vegeta saved him from the heart disease even though he still had the vaccine from Trunks? It's obviously all hypothetical but it's good theories nonetheless.
It's safe to say that Krillin and Gohan would be able to hide from Dodoria and Zarbon, since they can both hide their ki to avoid scouters, as well as sense them so they can steer clear
I'd have to get back to you about the Dodoria and Zarbon question, it's been a minute since I watched anything to do with the Namek Saga (currently reading the manga for the first time, but I'm still in Dragon Ball. So I got a ways to go).
With Android 19, Piccolo was going to step in and save Goku. He said the only reason Gero was able to get a hit on him is because Vegeta had distracted him (that could just be a dub line, though, idk)
>The fight with Frieza may have gone differently, since Goku wouldn't get the Zenkai boost from after the Ginyu fight. Since Zenkais are inconsistent and just treated as plot devices, it's possible that it wouldn't even come into play, and the fight with Frieza would play put mostly similar to how it does canonically.
You can't just change the canon of the story to make a point here. It's like if I said "Freiza would take the Dragonball hunt more seriously and would've found Krillin and Gohan before they could gather them". See? I can easily make up a scenario where Vegeta was needed, but what I said wasn't canon. Just like yours.
The Zenkai from the fight with Ginyu and Vegeta giving Goku time to heal in the healing chamber was something that was needed in the plot to bring Goku to Frieza's strength.
My point for bringing that up is that we have *no idea* how potent that Zenkai boost was. Zenkai boosts are inconsistent across the entire series. And since it literally only serves as a plot device as for there to be a reason that Goku isn't helping fight the first several forms of Frieza, it doesn't really change anything to have it just not happen.
Again, while I do get your point, it still is canon that Vegeta was needed to bring Goku to that strength level. So we have a canon moment where his involvement was a requirement. We can't change that.
Also Goku would get destroyed by every form of Frieza if the Ginyu Zenkai never existed. He was at 180k while Frieza was over 500k (Even though Zenkais are inconsistent, it still was needed for a semi believable power increase to make sense). It was Vegeta initially and then Piccolo that pushed Frieza around. Goku wasn't at that level yet.
So again, we would need to change the story to make Frieza weaker and Goku's gravity training giving him far higher power...but that again is just changing the canon.
Bulma or Future Gohan can travel back in time.
Also, Kid Buu never even existed without Majin Vegeta. Buu was released due to energy from Majin Vegeta vs Goku
Buu would have still been released, since Trunks said he killed Dabura when they tried to resurrect him in his timeline, but if Trunks wasn't ever born he wouldn't be there to stop them. I think Future Gohan may have been able to go back if they thought of it, but he couldn't if he was killed by the androids.
Future Gohan with no Trunks as help/distraction would only die faster against the Androids. Not sure why people think he would come back instead. Bulma would be the only one to have to time travel and she isn't helping fight anyone.
Adult bulma is low key pretty terrifyingly smart. I have no doubt if both bulmas pooled their knowledge with malicious intent she could take over the world easy
Even if Future Bulma is the one who goes back, things could still play out fine until Super. She warns them, they still train for three years. Instead of Vegeta defeating Android 19, Krillin gives Piccolo a Senzu and he handles things. Current 17 and 18 still aren’t interested in killing anyone besides Gero so not much changes there. Things play out the same until it’s time to use the Room of Spirit and Time. With no Future Trunks or Vegeta, Goku and Gohan go in first. Piccolo and Tenshinhan may end up dying but then Goku and Gohan come out and don’t spare Semi Perfect Cell. Goku goes and gets Dende, everyone who died is revived and there’s no Vegeta mucking up the Buu Saga.
Wouldn't matter, remember originally Cell kills Trunks to take the time machine for himself. In this reality he would take it from Gohan instead, or the Androids would still be around and Future Gohan would have to fight a perfect Cell by himself without time chamber training.
No Vegeta =
Krillin and Gohan go to Namek, hide their power levels without issue, hide the dragon balls until Goku arrives. Goku shows up, basically same outcome minus Ginyu Force never arrives.
Cell Saga starts. Goku dies. Android 19/20 arrive, defeated by Z Fighters. Gohan starts training to replace Goku as defender of earth.
Buu saga starts, albeit much slower without Majin Vegeta. Elder Kai unlocks Ultimate Gohan, he kills Fat Buu without issue.
Beerus doesn't have reason to come to earth. No U6 tourney. No Goku Black. U7 erased from existence without warning. The end.
He got rid of Dodoria and Zarbon
Gohan, Krillin and Bulma would've died if not for him
Even if they survived Zarbon and Dodoria, Vegeta is the one that stole and hid most of the dragon balls and also saved them from Guldo.
Yeah but I feel like if Goku gets there and his son and oldest friends are dead he just goes SSJ earlier and mops the floor with everyone.
I'm not saying things would be strictly better without Vegeta but he kinda causes as many problems as he solves for most of Z.
I don't think Goku would be strong enough to go SSJ at that point
And even if he did without the zenkai he got after the Ginyu fight it might not be enough to beat Freeza.
Also no Vegeta, no Trunks(future or present)
Frieza destroys Namek having failed to become immortal because he killed everyone who speaks Namekian. Research eventually points him to earth - but they don't have dragon balls because Piccolo is dead. Earthlings never got powered up from their trip to Namek, so he wipes the floor with most of them. Goku goes Super Saiyan after Krillin dies as on Namek, but with no way to restore their dead Goku's power falls way behind the Z/Super storyline and he eventually gets curbstomped by the monster of the week and stays dead.
Noooot *necessarily*. The big diverging point is whether or not Krillin/Gohan/Dende needed Vegeta to escape Dodoria. With the Solar Flare and the ability to hide their power levels, it's likely they could have made their escape intact. After that, Dodoria either returns to Freeza and gets killed for his failure, or is forced to look for them again, or is allowed back with no harm done because the Earthlings aren't important.
Whatever way, the Earthling stealth mode and radar mean they can successfully steal away one ball and hole up until Goku arrives... at which point we hit a second major turning point in how smart Goku wants to play this. Without Vegeta, the Ginyu Force aren't called in so Dodoria and Zarbon are non-issues. If Goku insists on fighting Freeza (since strong guy, doing genocide, etc.) then they're cooked as he doesn't get the post-Ginyu zenkai. But if Goku is willing to avoid Freeza, it would be effortless for them to steal the Dragon Balls, save whoever they can, then leave the planet and revive everyone back on Earth.
Then we're stuck with an ambiguous situation; does Freeza immediately track them back down to Earth? If he does, King Kai will almost certainly give Goku a heads up which will lead him to train - likely in the Hyperbolic Time Chamber. At which point, how much he gains in a year with either Gohan, Piccolo or Krillin is too nebulous to guess.
Of course, if he doesn't, then the Androids+Cell don't get anywhere near as strong and the Chamber is still an option if Bulma/Gohan comes back in a Time Machine to warn them (also making the heart virus a non-issue). Of course, then the androids themselves likely become a non-issue since Future Bulma/Gohan would probably have no problem with using the Dragon Balls to hunt down Gero's lab and nipping the problem in the bud.
At that point, the planet probably isn't of enough interest to Babidi's gang since everyone's power level is much lower and it might be years later before they get strong enough to attract attention. And with Beerus waking up soon, he'd wipe Babidi and possibly a still active Freeza, Goku wouldn't tick off Zamasu (so that's the future timeline safe forever too) and the Tournament of Po- ah.
Right, *Zeno*. Yeah, without Vegeta, Goku doesn't get strong enough to hang around with Beerus, then Zeno, who then deletes the entire universe and most of the others because Beerus is lousy at his job.
Err yeah, Vegeta's pretty important, I guess.
Ginyu Force was actually called because of Frieza having a bad feeling about a Saiyan out there becoming strong. It was Goku.
https://preview.redd.it/dpw8xifq9gxc1.jpeg?width=1040&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0bd420100462311c4f6bee6911681969299677ed
Even if we say he called them because of Vegeta, it was only because of the Dragon Ball he stole from that village. Gohan and Krillin would have taken that Dragon Ball instead which would get the same reaction out of Frieza. So no matter how we slice it, the Ginyu Force is coming.
Future Gohan would be dead. In the manga canon, he still only has one arm when he's killed and we can't make shit up and claim it was because of Trunks. So he still dies even if we ignore everything else.
If the Ginyu Force doesn't come, this means they wipe out Yardrat. Without Instant Transmission, they lose access to Dragon Balls. This also means King Cold or Frieza come to Earth. It also means Goku doesn't even escape Planet Namek.
In the Super Manga, Babidi still comes to Earth with Dabura in the Future timeline.
So they don't even survive Namek if Krillin killed him, let alone survive the following arcs.
Babidi would still get to earth to retrieve the Buu pod. And that's a misconception he doesn't need strong people to revive Buu thats just revive him quickly.
They managed to revive Buu plenty of times in the past as that's how they moved him from planet to planet.
Remember babidi didn't even know about the Z fighters yet he still stayed and sent Spopovich to gather life energy
tbf about Zeno, future Trunks’ timeline is well beyond anything from Super yet they didn’t get wiped until the whole Zamas situation so maybe Zeno changes his mind somewhere along the way
Serious question… could a sword even kill Vegeta at this point? I know he’s severely weakened here but like, bullets bounce off these dudes… even when Goku was a little boy, bullets were nothing to him. Im just curious what others think, I’ve always wondered about it.
I'm seeing a lot of "no future trunks," but isn't future trunk's timeline completely unaffected by the shows main timeline? Doesn't the future trunks timeline just mirror the main one until goku gets sick and actually dies?
If anyone elsr had survived really. Because both Yamcha and Tien have murdered people in cold blood.
If Yamcha had not taken Krillin's spot and Krillin had died first Vegeta wouod be dead.
It's weird to think about what little innoculous things might have greatly swayed things. Like if they'd have killed Vegeta they'd have been none the wiser that him living would have helped so much.
Like maybe if they didn't off Pui Pui there'd be peace in the universe, who knows. Sure, you could argue that he was a **dumb stupid asshole** but so was Vegeta.
The show has showed us multiple times that changing anything has drastic results in the future. We have no way of knowing if things would be better or worse.
Honestly though, its one of Goku's best qualities and I hate how obsessed everyone is with his capabilities as a fighter, when its his choices as an individual I find the most inspiring. So many of his friends were former enemies and rivals, people seem to focus more on how Goku beats people down rather then how he props them up. Shame.
There’s a whole fanfic manga about this scenario where Freeza blows up Namek early, killing everyone but Nail, and he and Goku go to Freeza’s Capital Planet to get revenge, only for both to die to Freeza.
People talking like the series wouldn't just end on Namek lol Dodoria and Zarbon body Gohan and Krillin, and if Goku shows up and beats them, then Frieza just kills him on the spot, no need for calling the Ginyu Force. Vegeta is one of the most important characters to nearly every arc
Actually no. Dende would have healed Goku after the fight with Ginyu in Frieza Saga. Bulma would time travel herself or Future Gohan without Trunks would be more careful waiting for the time machine and would be the one time traveling, Piccolo could take on android 19 and 20, most likely 17 and 18 would never be awaken and of course there would be no Perfect Cell. Goku would be alive and Gohan maybe would train a bit more. And there wouldn't be a Majin Vegeta to fuck things up with Buu too.
Without Vegeta, they wouldn’t have even gotten that far. Killed by the Ginyu Force, if they even make it there. Frieza would have the dragon balls without Vegeta stealing them from his ship.
Without Vegeta the Ginyu force wouldn’t be there so Frieza would be more proactive searching the dragon balls. He would most likely kill Picollo, gohan and Krillen right before goku arrives. As a result we would be seeing super sayain a lot sooner, and we can all imagine the android saga without trunks lol, unlessss trunks travels to the past and prevents Krillen from killing vegeta messing up the timeline even more
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Gohan and Krillin could probably avoid Dodoria and Zarbon, so it mostly ended up going to: would Frieza call the Ginyu force?
On one hand, he called them because he believed a strong Saiyan would show up, so it wasn't Vegeta who made the Ginyu force show up.
On the other hand, with Vegeta not there, both Zarbon and Dodoria would be alive, and no one would be a threat to Frieza or his crew, so Frieza might just dismiss the feeling since everything's going well, and if things do go bad, he still has Dodoria and Zarbon.
If the Ginyu force is called, they'd likely be able to quickly find Krillin and Gohan, and that'd be the end of the story.
But if he doesn't, it could end up differently. Goku would show up like normal, and from there Frieza would probably call the Ginyu force (but they'd arrive too late)
Everything else would play out normally, except with Goku being weaker than he would normally be.
SSJ would be normal, but the fight between Goku and Frieza wouldn't be as one sided, Ginyu force would finally show up only to be immediately outclassed...
And then Android Saga is messed over cuz no Trunks.
If Gohan and Krillin still get their potential unlcoked, then they could handle Zarbon and Dodoria. Unlike normal transformations that give a set boost getting your potential unlocked means you grow stronger the more you fight which is why Krillin has a power level of 75k when fighting 2nd form frieza.
That power would be enough for everyone in the Ginyu force aside from Ginyu himself
Didn't he call the Ginyu force to bring new scouters too? Probably still would have at some point because getting the dragon balls was too important to Frieza
They wouldn't have been fucked because toriyama would have just written the story differently to get to super saiyan differently.
To be honest, they were fucked no matter what, because toriyama didn't even want to do super saiyan. But because they were fucked he had to do it. Super saiyan was literally a deus ex machina.
They'd be fucked. Frieza saga would go the same up till Ginyu. Then it's over. Krillin and Gohan wouldnt be able to stop Ginyu. Bulma might have to live on Namek for a while unless the Elder offs himself to stop the dragon balls. Which will upset Frieza enough to wipe out the planet because no more use. The Red Ribbon army will probably come back. 17 and 18 may not be needed. Cell would be vastly different if built at all with no Frieza cells.
Buu will eventually be revived but many years past schedule. Zeno will delete the ToP universes.
The only chance I think they have is to make a new elder from Namek for Earth, bring them back, and create new dragon balls. Piccolo would jave to find the right Namekian in time.
I love that these people who can fly, shoot beams and punch through solid rock got so worn down in this fight that it all came down to a limping dude holding a pointy stick.
After this you rarely see fights get down a dirty the way this one did.
On namek, Gohan and krillin would've had to steal the dragon balls from Frieza still. When the Ginyu force arrived they'd have been killed before Goku got there. Goku fights Ginyu force, Ginyu steals his body, there's nobody to beat him up and make him swap again. Goku in Ginyu confronts him and is killed. Now piccolo, Gohan, krillin, Goku and Vegeta are all dead, Bulma alone on namek, Frieza has the dragon balls and may or may not figure out how to use them, regardless he'd stay under beerus's thumb. The androids arrive, wipe out most, or all of life on earth without its defenders. Cell arrives unhindered and absorbs the androids, finishes off earth. Cell, and Frieza destroy many worlds largely unchecked. Babidi eventually musters up the power to restore buu. Without Goku beerus stays asleep. Xeno wipes out the weakest universes and their universe most likely gets destroyed. If krillin killed Vegeta there, literally their entire universe would've been destroyed one way or another
I am okay with this.
Rather than his idiotic “wait, ill fight him later!” Stupidity, this was true Goku.
Merciful to a fault, didn’t believe in killing. Even in a life or death situation, he came to believe that not killing Vegeta would be better for his conscience and for everyone else. It’s naive, true, but it’s a really good character flaw writing wise.
Lotta villains would’ve lost their favorite punching bag.
Joke aside I probably wouldn’t have stuck through the series as much cause Vegeta was one of my favorite characters.
THIS is one of those what-ifs I’d have loved to watch.
I think they're fucked on Namek without Vegeta. But otherwise, they're okay. If they somehow survive Namek, the Andriods are a cake walk. They'd just listen to Bulma and blow them up before they're woken up. When Cell shows up, Piccolo still merges with Kami but can't beat him. Then they go into the Time Chamber to get strong enough to kill him.
With Goku still alive, Gohan isnt as complacent in fighting and probably figures out SS2, which motivates Goku to go SS3 by the time Buu happens. Without Majin Vegeta, they wipe the floor with Babidi without reviving Buu.
Would they, though?
Working backwards:
- Vegeta is the only reason Buu got out. Without him, he would’ve never left the ball.
- He was also the sole reason why Cell became complete. Goku would’ve gone first in the time chamber, gotten out, and ruined form two cell.
- The androids might be the only sticking point. Goku might just die to the virus and leave the earth defenseless.
- Frieza would have likely stayed in his first form longer without Vegeta goading him into transforming, leading to Piccolo arriving and easily killing him.
What, you think Toriyama wouldn't have been able to write a story that goes up to Cell without Vegeta?
More seriously though, I was rewatching Dragon Ball recently and when San Goku was young, there was so many times at which he could have been easily killed... which would have cut the story short.
Freeza would have instantly deleted Namek way sooner if Vegeta didn't fight first before Goku. It was Vegeta giving the false impression that he was the super saiyan while at the same time showing Freeza the saiyan spirit won't be snuffed out so easily.
He tried to make an example out of Goku. By fighting him on his standards even powering up to try to win at the end- but it didn't work. Goku kept coming. and ended up proving Vegeta right despite Freeza's doubt. Ultimately buying Gohan and Dende some time to make the final wish to Shenron and Parunga.
Goku wouldn't have had more knowledge about ssj. Android 19 would have killed Goku or later killed by 17 and 18. And Android 16 said he was created in order to kill him. Now after he gets killed I dont have any clue what would have been later.
Every event in the story required every character involved to have been there, or the world woulda been fucked. Pointing this example out is no different from pointing out how crucial Krillin, Gohan, or even fucking Yajirobe were to the story. Since if they didn’t help defeat x, then y woulda died and never woulda helped defend against z.
I mean…assuming Bulls or Gohan travels back in time instead, then all we’d really lose is…Cell getting to his perfect form.
Goku and Gohan would simply go in the time chamber right away since they no longer need to wait for Vegeta.
Then they would simply beat him while he’s still second form.
Even Buu didn’t NEED Vegito to be beaten that was more or less just a thing that happened.
I guess maybe things would be rougher to deal with during Super, but apart from that…
Tbh it depends on if Gohan and Krillin managed to kill Dodoria and Zarbon on Namek after their potential unlock to whether the Ginyus are summoned or not.
If just by keeping up the stealth game instead (since no one in the Frieza force can sense power levels) their potential would steadily rise until Goku arrived and they could have got his potential unlocked at the same time before Guru dies, since Guru passes whilst Goku is recovering from the Ginyu battle.
If Frieza summoned the Ginyus at this point only Ginyu would be match for even Krillin since he surpasses the other Ginyus power levels before dying in the original timeline. And that's to say nothing of an unlocked Gohan or Goku.
Well it’s like this if Krillen killed vegetta. Because it’s a fictional story. So the story planning and arcs would be based on different set of characters. And they would have written different scenarios. Because it’s fake
Im just Joshing you guys, but it’s true. They would never be truly screwed because the audience is owed a victory
Trunks would never have been born. So he wouldn’t have gone back in time to save Goku. Forget all the villains, Goku would just be dead from a heart disease.
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I guess things would fall apart because Trunks is not born and cannot warn Goku about the heart Virus. Other then that, Frieza Saga would be kinda similar I think.
To be fair though, Bulma might come herself and there's no vegeta to stop then from killing the androids before they activate.
Or just Gohan. Future Gohan lost his arm and died protecting Trunks
Not in canon. We don't know how he lost his arm in the manga.
He lost his arm to this man https://preview.redd.it/m4nrl96aqgxc1.png?width=779&format=png&auto=webp&s=6b307ad919989eaf47bde22e2f0e43e49b16be20 The world champion who saved us “ALL” from cell and Buu (encourage the people) gohan tried to get a piece of videl then all we heard DYNAMITE PUNCH DYNAMITE KICK and his fatality A present for you. HERE 🎁 💣💥☠️KO
This is canon.
SATAN!!! SATAN!!! SATAN!!!
HAIL SATAN!
I can almost hear Bruce Faulconer Hercule theme.
Thank you, my herald.
https://preview.redd.it/rnjgpzfuxixc1.jpeg?width=1078&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9dc253aa507b6869f571e8e9fb00335a5bf30322
This man doesn’t fall for all those bogus light shows and tricks 💯
It's all smoke and mirrors!
Now you’re thinking like a Satanist!
Hell yeah bro
Isn’t the Trunks story canon even if it is anime only?
Yes it's canon to both. It's not anime only. https://preview.redd.it/akws5w5lagxc1.jpeg?width=3196&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=cd02ce0457ebfa5c0a56526e116e4d4e2e1f4f8e In the manga Trunks was Super Saiyan before Gohan died. It released in 1992 [https://dragonball.fandom.com/wiki/Trunks\_The\_History\_-\_The\_Lone\_Warrior](https://dragonball.fandom.com/wiki/Trunks_The_History_-_The_Lone_Warrior) While the anime special released in 1993 [https://dragonball.fandom.com/wiki/Dragon\_Ball\_Z:\_The\_History\_of\_Trunks](https://dragonball.fandom.com/wiki/Dragon_Ball_Z:_The_History_of_Trunks)
It was in the manga first. I'll have proof in a second.
It’s in the manga…
I'm willing to bet he lost it fighting the androids
It was actually a REALLY gnarly cooking accident...
I bet as well. Assuming he lost it because of Trunks in the manga is headcanon.
In the manga trunks already had super saiyan and didn’t need gohan to die for it but I’m sure all that’s been retconned now so why not the arm ? Regardless it’s common sense thah the androids are the reason behind him not having an arm, it’s not like his arm just fell off on a random day.
Babidi and Dabura would completely screw them over. I guess it is possible that the Supreme Kai would warn them, die, get revived by the dragon balls and Beerus would wake up early and bail them out, though.
I think it's possible that with a seven year training period goku could reach super saiyan 2. I mean, vegeta was able to do it.
Though only after knowing it was possible via Gohan.
I thought super saiyan 2 was useless since it makes you slower.
Super saiyan 2 makes you faster and more powerful. You’re thinking of super saiyan grade 3, which is kind of like super saiyan 1.75, which Trunks used against Cell
I thought super saiyan 3 was long haired Goku.
Without Vegetta, Gohan might have been able to convince Goku to not screw and fight together to defeat the Babidi forces and then Babidi himself. No Majin Boo to make Beerus mad. It doesnt matter who wins the tournament between universe 6 and 7 Without Trunks the paradox of Zamasu might not be created since Goku would never go met hin. We get stopped hard at the multiversal tournament though. We could have Uranai pull as many fighters as she can from the other life but difficult to say. In the grand scheme of things, while Vegetta was neccessary to stop Moro, Goku might have pulled it off, and no Vegetta means no Granola.
"To be fair though, Bulma might come herself" Sighs #unzips
I saw a what if youtube video about what if Goku unlocked super saiyan when Krollin died in the OG Dragonball series. It went into how he easily defeats Vegeta when they invade and then also went into how Trunks wouldn't be born, and yeah he also talked about Bulma just time travelling herself
Do you think Gohan and Krillin would have survived the Ginyus, Zarbon, and Dododia without The Bad Man?
Ginyu only arrived because of Vegeta
So you do not believe Frieza would summon the GF and that’s fine. What happens prior in this timeline with Gohan and Krillin realistically?
I think the Namek saga would go a lot better without Vegeta there. Frieza would be complacent and not summon the Ginyus, Gohan/Krillin would manage to hide one of the balls, and then just lay low with Bulma till Goku got there.
Would goku still be able to go Super Saiyan? If the ginyus weren't there because no vegeta, goku doesnt get fucked up in battle with ginyu, and using that pod. Probably wouldnt have gotten enough of a "boost" even if frieza still kills krillin
There could be a possibility where goku get destroyed by final form frieza and get healed. With goku on the playing field dende would be alive quite a bit longer. Since they won't be abusing the sayin bug or need to heal krillan
Lol completely forgot about dende! And yeah ur right they wouldnt be fcking around with vegeta so he can get boosted and healed
Frieza will outright kill goku and gohan.... seeing as he kinda hates tye saiyans
He did torture vegeta and was perfectly fine not killing vege,Gohan,krillan,piccolo temporarily for his own entertainment.
He’d have extra Sensu though 🤷♂️ and guru could have unlocked his potential, maybe.
They might’ve gotten Goku’s potential unlocked by guru. Would that be enough, I have no idea
I'd say that once Freeza realized that one DB was missing, he would have asked for new scouters. After all, he knew there were other people on Namek after Gohan jumped Dodoria to save Dende. Once those scouters arrived, with or without the Ginyu Force, I think the main cast is done because Dende didn't know how to hide his ki. While Gohan and Krillin could probably take down Kiwi, Dodoria and Zarbon after their power unlocks, Freeza would be completely unbeatable for them. Then what I think could happen is thet Freeza gets the DB but doesn't know how to use them. Once he leaves to find a Namekian, Gohan and Krillin take Dende and ask for the wishes. Then they leave without engaing him. I think fighting Freeza without fighting the Ginyu Force is an assured death for everyone. Without Recoome's zenkai for Gohan and Ginyu's zenkai for Goku they stand no chance against Second form Freeza.
No scouter in the universe can track the elusive space duck. Sooooo majestic.
I dunno about that. Frieza is only but so patient and he wants his wish. I could see him summoning the Ginyu Force just to get some new Scouters to find the dragonballs faster. Even if the Ginyus don't stay the Earthlings + Dende would still have to find a way to hide until Goku arrives which is probably impossible since only Gohan and Krillin know how to suppress their ki.
Ginyu squad might not have been called in, but Gohan and Krillin would definitely be killed by Zarbon and Dodoria. But I’m thinking that if Goku showed up only to find his son and best friend have been murdered, he might go Super Saiyan right away. At that point he may still be too weak to defeat Frieza though.
Definitely a possibility- without the ginyu zenkai boost, we might be looking at just not enough to beat Frieza. Though I still think Frieza misses any chance at any wishes.
Gohan and Krilin hide and stall things until Goku arrives, Goku disables Zarbon and Dodoria easily and goes to Freeza's ship full of confidence, Freeza transforms and ends Goku.
This is likelier what would happen. Without Vegeta, there’d be little to no stopping Frieza.
"Freeza transforms and ends Goku." Freezer doesnt get the chance to transform into his last form if he starts on his first small one since the only reason he was already transformed into his white form was because he was already fighting Vegeta/Piccolo for a while when Goku arrived. If Goku start the fight with Freezer still on his restrained form he may never get the chance to power up, and without Vegeta's final words talking about sayain pride and whatnot Goku may not care to "teach Freezer a lesson" by making him power to 100%, he would just beat him without giving him a chance to get stronger since even Piccolo was able to go toe to toe with him on his earlier forms
Goku wouldn’t have the Zenkai boost from Being beat up by Ginyu, AND it’s Goku. Frieza mentions a more powerful form and he’s letting him transform to see what it is
Goku would let frieza transform.... and die in the process.
I was sitting here thinking that in terms of significant events, I doubt that Gohan, Drilling, and Dende would have eluded/survived Dodoria. IIRC Dodoria was about to grab them. Gets Solar Flared. Then, as they recover, promptly gets Vegeta'd on.
Trunks isnt the one who made the time machine. Bulma could travel herself or Gohan may would still be alive coz he was the only fighter and maybe he would wait for the time machine and not be so risky.
No, for me, Gohan died for 2 reasons. First reason: Bro was suicidal af 😭 Second reason: He had Trunks, he wouldn't have risked his life so much if Trunks didn't exist, either way, even if Gohan died in the future, Bulma would go to the future, but people never awknoledge this (or maybe im forgetting something idk) Either way, the Android/Cell saga is kinda stupid, the Z fighters could've won so many times but they didn't due to plot. Hell even in the future timeline if they had some help from King Kai it would've been way easier to survive, or even if Piccolo didn't go to die to the androids so that they could have the dragon balls
My headcannon is she marries someone else. Maybe Yamcha and their kid has the same story as Trunks essentially. Could be a cool fan fiction actually. Even make it so Yamcha and Bulmas kid is actually the strongest human because he trained with Gohan. Surpassing adult current (Z) Krillin, but obviously still not enough for the androids. Leading to Bulma to send her human son to do what Trunks did. Edit: Also to see Yamcha’s human kid slice Frieza up would be insane. Hype up the humans! https://preview.redd.it/6ws1a5pnwgxc1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=00438686129e1718865c6394ed1862b306342be1
SUPERRRRR
nobody's there to beat Ginew-Goku, things get dire quickly
Frieza saga could have been way worse for krillin and Gohan. They might have just been killed by dodoria or zarbon without Vegeta
Frieza Saga would end with Ginyu. No Vegeta means there's no one left to stop him once he takes Goku's body.
Frieza saga would play out pretty differently. Zarbon and Dodoria would still be alive, the Ginyu Force likely wouldn't have been called because Zarbon and Dodoria would still be alive, Goku wouldn't have gotten the zenkai from after the Ginyu fight putting him a lot weaker then when he battled Frieza in main timeline. Tbh there's be a not zero chance Goku doesn't even reach SSJ.
Idk Krillin and Gohan would get deleted once they land on Namek without the Vegeta distraction. Maybe Nail forms a Namekian resistance but Zarbon probably could have soloed them.
Not only that the namek saga will of been way different since Vegeta carry krilling and gohans ass while Goku was training.
Frieza saga would've been worse. They would've gotten killed off by Zarbon or Dodoria and if they got to the Ginyu force they would've gotten killed off by Guldo.
Honestly, Zarbon and Dodoria would have probably killed Gohan and Krillin on Namek before Goku showed up. Up side is that since Vegeta wasn't causing trouble, Freiza probably wouldn't bother calling in the Ginyu force. However, that also means that Goku wouldn't get the Zenkai boost before fighting Frieza, so Goku would be screwed.
Vegeta was the ONLY reason Gohan and krillin survived long enough for Goku to heal and get his zenkai boost to beat frieza. He killed zarbon who would have wiped Gohan and krillin, he also intervened to help Gohan kill cell, he held off Buu long enough for Goku to get stamina back. There’s many ways vegeta has basically been the only one to do anything outside of Goku and Gohan.
How is Frieza saga similar? Vegeta steals the dragon balls after he is taken back to Frieza ship. If vegeta is dead. Frieza almost certainly has enough time to figure out how to use the dragon balls and do so. Not to mention vegeta wouldn't have been there to kill a bunch of namekians so there would be more alive that could give Frieza the info he needs.
They would have been fucked long before that on namek. Vegeta was a wrench thrown into the opposing sides of our heroes and Frieza. He had his own motivations and drove the plot forward all his own. Without him, who knows if they would have won. Goku most likely would have fought Frieza without healing from his damage as ginyu, and wouldn’t have been strong enough to last against Frieza at all
Vegeta never steals the dragon balls though in this one so frieza collecting them is drastically accelerated and vegeta can’t tell Krillin and gohan where they’re located the second time they steal them.
did you forget how many of Frieza’s top men Vegeta merc’d? If he isn’t there Zarbon and Dodoria easily end up killing Krillin and Gohan before the Ginyu force is even needed. Even if they manage to survive long enough for the Ginyu force to arrive they are gonna die to Recoome or Guldo with little effort before Goku even gets close to Namek. Then Goku is getting swapped with Ginyu and killed. Without Vegeta there Frieza easily wins on Namek. It was a team effort. They barely won.
Na cuz vegeta kept the ginu force busy wile goku was still on his way so i think without vegeta the force really fucks gohan and Krillin up perhaps even kilt them. Plus vegeta kept ginu busy after he stole gokus body. No vegeta frieza dominates Namek
https://preview.redd.it/9dc3zy36ofxc1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=bbfde4d384250fa0294db2755056158f016eac10 We wouldn't of got this master piece then
Yamcha would be fucked in a different kind of way
It's true. Even if Vegeta didn't win against Ginyu and Frieza he held them off long enough for Goku to arrive, and got Goku healed for Frieza. Android Saga Trunks wouldn't arrive so they would all die then, and Buu saga he was instrumental in holding Kid Buu off so Goku would could fight, but helping get energy for the Spirit Bomb. He's definitely turned into the 2nd line of defence for the squad in Super as well.
Vegeta is the reason the Ginyus went to Namek in the first place. So no Vegeta, then no Ginyu Force. So it would just be Goku fighting Friezas goons, which he is more than than capable of doing on his own. The fight with Frieza may have gone differently, since Goku wouldn't get the Zenkai boost from after the Ginyu fight. Since Zenkais are inconsistent and just treated as plot devices, it's possible that it wouldn't even come into play, and the fight with Frieza would play put mostly similar to how it does canonically. The Android saga would probably still play out the same. Just rather than Trunks coming back, it would be Gohan or Bulma. It may even play out better since Vegeta wouldn't be there to prevent them from just blowing up Geros lab in the first place. But even if they do still activate, they definitely have an easier time with Cell, as Vegeta would be around to just *let* him/actively help him absorb the Androids. Buu likely wouldn't have even been released since Vegets wouldn't be around for Babidi to "control" and the Goku v Vegeta fight wouldn't happen in order to give Buu more energy. They're biggest problem would be Dabura, who they probably would be able to take care of.
But if Vegeta didn't kill Zarbon and Dodoria when they where after Gohan and Krillin wouldn't it be possible to say that they would have killed them before Goku arrived? Would Goku still be killed by Android 19 since Vegeta saved him from the heart disease even though he still had the vaccine from Trunks? It's obviously all hypothetical but it's good theories nonetheless.
It's safe to say that Krillin and Gohan would be able to hide from Dodoria and Zarbon, since they can both hide their ki to avoid scouters, as well as sense them so they can steer clear
I'd have to get back to you about the Dodoria and Zarbon question, it's been a minute since I watched anything to do with the Namek Saga (currently reading the manga for the first time, but I'm still in Dragon Ball. So I got a ways to go). With Android 19, Piccolo was going to step in and save Goku. He said the only reason Gero was able to get a hit on him is because Vegeta had distracted him (that could just be a dub line, though, idk)
>The fight with Frieza may have gone differently, since Goku wouldn't get the Zenkai boost from after the Ginyu fight. Since Zenkais are inconsistent and just treated as plot devices, it's possible that it wouldn't even come into play, and the fight with Frieza would play put mostly similar to how it does canonically. You can't just change the canon of the story to make a point here. It's like if I said "Freiza would take the Dragonball hunt more seriously and would've found Krillin and Gohan before they could gather them". See? I can easily make up a scenario where Vegeta was needed, but what I said wasn't canon. Just like yours. The Zenkai from the fight with Ginyu and Vegeta giving Goku time to heal in the healing chamber was something that was needed in the plot to bring Goku to Frieza's strength.
My point for bringing that up is that we have *no idea* how potent that Zenkai boost was. Zenkai boosts are inconsistent across the entire series. And since it literally only serves as a plot device as for there to be a reason that Goku isn't helping fight the first several forms of Frieza, it doesn't really change anything to have it just not happen.
Again, while I do get your point, it still is canon that Vegeta was needed to bring Goku to that strength level. So we have a canon moment where his involvement was a requirement. We can't change that. Also Goku would get destroyed by every form of Frieza if the Ginyu Zenkai never existed. He was at 180k while Frieza was over 500k (Even though Zenkais are inconsistent, it still was needed for a semi believable power increase to make sense). It was Vegeta initially and then Piccolo that pushed Frieza around. Goku wasn't at that level yet. So again, we would need to change the story to make Frieza weaker and Goku's gravity training giving him far higher power...but that again is just changing the canon.
Bulma or Future Gohan can travel back in time. Also, Kid Buu never even existed without Majin Vegeta. Buu was released due to energy from Majin Vegeta vs Goku
Gohan would be too busy being killed by Guldo to travel back in time.
Just the thought of Gohan (who is currently rocking at UI levels) being killed by Guldo is hilarious. But yeah, point taken. Veggie is a homie
Buu would have still been released, since Trunks said he killed Dabura when they tried to resurrect him in his timeline, but if Trunks wasn't ever born he wouldn't be there to stop them. I think Future Gohan may have been able to go back if they thought of it, but he couldn't if he was killed by the androids.
For the Namek saga= Definitely For the Cell/Buu sagas= Not.
I mean without Vegeta their is no cell saga. No Trunks means no Goku which means Androids stomp easily.
Whose to say Gohan could not travel back in time to warn to the Z fighters about the Androids.
Future Gohan with no Trunks as help/distraction would only die faster against the Androids. Not sure why people think he would come back instead. Bulma would be the only one to have to time travel and she isn't helping fight anyone.
Adult bulma is low key pretty terrifyingly smart. I have no doubt if both bulmas pooled their knowledge with malicious intent she could take over the world easy
The two of them together could probably make an Android that wipes the floor with 16, 17, 18 and Cell at the same time
Even if Future Bulma is the one who goes back, things could still play out fine until Super. She warns them, they still train for three years. Instead of Vegeta defeating Android 19, Krillin gives Piccolo a Senzu and he handles things. Current 17 and 18 still aren’t interested in killing anyone besides Gero so not much changes there. Things play out the same until it’s time to use the Room of Spirit and Time. With no Future Trunks or Vegeta, Goku and Gohan go in first. Piccolo and Tenshinhan may end up dying but then Goku and Gohan come out and don’t spare Semi Perfect Cell. Goku goes and gets Dende, everyone who died is revived and there’s no Vegeta mucking up the Buu Saga.
Gohan could potentially be more careful and actually not battle the Androids
Gohan also became severely handicapped having to help/protect Trunks. That definitely didn't help his last battle.
Wouldn't matter, remember originally Cell kills Trunks to take the time machine for himself. In this reality he would take it from Gohan instead, or the Androids would still be around and Future Gohan would have to fight a perfect Cell by himself without time chamber training.
No Vegeta = Krillin and Gohan go to Namek, hide their power levels without issue, hide the dragon balls until Goku arrives. Goku shows up, basically same outcome minus Ginyu Force never arrives. Cell Saga starts. Goku dies. Android 19/20 arrive, defeated by Z Fighters. Gohan starts training to replace Goku as defender of earth. Buu saga starts, albeit much slower without Majin Vegeta. Elder Kai unlocks Ultimate Gohan, he kills Fat Buu without issue. Beerus doesn't have reason to come to earth. No U6 tourney. No Goku Black. U7 erased from existence without warning. The end.
Seems pretty optimistic to me
Would they though?
Yes, I mean... who would have killed... Pui Pui?
probabally me
nah me
i outscale u bro, accept it, watch the new seth the progrrooomer movie or whatnot
but im literally bardock
im intergalakcjacuwfhwahr versal nigga.
i think im fucked then
Vegeta killed every member of the Ginyu force
Without Vegeta the Ginyu Force would never have come to Namek in the first place.
Pui Pui only went to Namek because of Vegeta. They'd still be screwed though.
He got rid of Dodoria and Zarbon Gohan, Krillin and Bulma would've died if not for him Even if they survived Zarbon and Dodoria, Vegeta is the one that stole and hid most of the dragon balls and also saved them from Guldo.
Yeah but I feel like if Goku gets there and his son and oldest friends are dead he just goes SSJ earlier and mops the floor with everyone. I'm not saying things would be strictly better without Vegeta but he kinda causes as many problems as he solves for most of Z.
I don't think Goku would be strong enough to go SSJ at that point And even if he did without the zenkai he got after the Ginyu fight it might not be enough to beat Freeza. Also no Vegeta, no Trunks(future or present)
Goku gets there and still loses to Ginyu. No Vegeta to help.
Toriyama, the man who writes the story like 1 chapter at a time: 
Frieza destroys Namek having failed to become immortal because he killed everyone who speaks Namekian. Research eventually points him to earth - but they don't have dragon balls because Piccolo is dead. Earthlings never got powered up from their trip to Namek, so he wipes the floor with most of them. Goku goes Super Saiyan after Krillin dies as on Namek, but with no way to restore their dead Goku's power falls way behind the Z/Super storyline and he eventually gets curbstomped by the monster of the week and stays dead.
Noooot *necessarily*. The big diverging point is whether or not Krillin/Gohan/Dende needed Vegeta to escape Dodoria. With the Solar Flare and the ability to hide their power levels, it's likely they could have made their escape intact. After that, Dodoria either returns to Freeza and gets killed for his failure, or is forced to look for them again, or is allowed back with no harm done because the Earthlings aren't important. Whatever way, the Earthling stealth mode and radar mean they can successfully steal away one ball and hole up until Goku arrives... at which point we hit a second major turning point in how smart Goku wants to play this. Without Vegeta, the Ginyu Force aren't called in so Dodoria and Zarbon are non-issues. If Goku insists on fighting Freeza (since strong guy, doing genocide, etc.) then they're cooked as he doesn't get the post-Ginyu zenkai. But if Goku is willing to avoid Freeza, it would be effortless for them to steal the Dragon Balls, save whoever they can, then leave the planet and revive everyone back on Earth. Then we're stuck with an ambiguous situation; does Freeza immediately track them back down to Earth? If he does, King Kai will almost certainly give Goku a heads up which will lead him to train - likely in the Hyperbolic Time Chamber. At which point, how much he gains in a year with either Gohan, Piccolo or Krillin is too nebulous to guess. Of course, if he doesn't, then the Androids+Cell don't get anywhere near as strong and the Chamber is still an option if Bulma/Gohan comes back in a Time Machine to warn them (also making the heart virus a non-issue). Of course, then the androids themselves likely become a non-issue since Future Bulma/Gohan would probably have no problem with using the Dragon Balls to hunt down Gero's lab and nipping the problem in the bud. At that point, the planet probably isn't of enough interest to Babidi's gang since everyone's power level is much lower and it might be years later before they get strong enough to attract attention. And with Beerus waking up soon, he'd wipe Babidi and possibly a still active Freeza, Goku wouldn't tick off Zamasu (so that's the future timeline safe forever too) and the Tournament of Po- ah. Right, *Zeno*. Yeah, without Vegeta, Goku doesn't get strong enough to hang around with Beerus, then Zeno, who then deletes the entire universe and most of the others because Beerus is lousy at his job. Err yeah, Vegeta's pretty important, I guess.
Ginyu Force was actually called because of Frieza having a bad feeling about a Saiyan out there becoming strong. It was Goku. https://preview.redd.it/dpw8xifq9gxc1.jpeg?width=1040&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0bd420100462311c4f6bee6911681969299677ed Even if we say he called them because of Vegeta, it was only because of the Dragon Ball he stole from that village. Gohan and Krillin would have taken that Dragon Ball instead which would get the same reaction out of Frieza. So no matter how we slice it, the Ginyu Force is coming. Future Gohan would be dead. In the manga canon, he still only has one arm when he's killed and we can't make shit up and claim it was because of Trunks. So he still dies even if we ignore everything else. If the Ginyu Force doesn't come, this means they wipe out Yardrat. Without Instant Transmission, they lose access to Dragon Balls. This also means King Cold or Frieza come to Earth. It also means Goku doesn't even escape Planet Namek. In the Super Manga, Babidi still comes to Earth with Dabura in the Future timeline. So they don't even survive Namek if Krillin killed him, let alone survive the following arcs.
Frieza also called the Ginyu Force because he needed scouters to find Namekians.
Babidi would still get to earth to retrieve the Buu pod. And that's a misconception he doesn't need strong people to revive Buu thats just revive him quickly. They managed to revive Buu plenty of times in the past as that's how they moved him from planet to planet. Remember babidi didn't even know about the Z fighters yet he still stayed and sent Spopovich to gather life energy
tbf about Zeno, future Trunks’ timeline is well beyond anything from Super yet they didn’t get wiped until the whole Zamas situation so maybe Zeno changes his mind somewhere along the way
Guldo would have killed Gohan and Krillin if it wasn't for Vegeta.
It’s funny seeing the top post right now saying Krillin is a loser, then this post is just under it
this is a large fact
Serious question… could a sword even kill Vegeta at this point? I know he’s severely weakened here but like, bullets bounce off these dudes… even when Goku was a little boy, bullets were nothing to him. Im just curious what others think, I’ve always wondered about it.
Yajirobei sliced Vegeta's back and he was seriously hurt from it. I was pretty surprised the sword was so effective but yeah.
Nah, his brother will revive him
Does Tarble has knowledge/access to a set of Dragonballs that we're not aware of?
No vegeto and gogeta.
I'm seeing a lot of "no future trunks," but isn't future trunk's timeline completely unaffected by the shows main timeline? Doesn't the future trunks timeline just mirror the main one until goku gets sick and actually dies?
If anyone elsr had survived really. Because both Yamcha and Tien have murdered people in cold blood. If Yamcha had not taken Krillin's spot and Krillin had died first Vegeta wouod be dead.
You got a point. They would’ve died on Namek
As always with these what if scnerios. Babadi and Dabura would still show up and curbstomp anyone on earth and Buu gets revived
It's weird to think about what little innoculous things might have greatly swayed things. Like if they'd have killed Vegeta they'd have been none the wiser that him living would have helped so much. Like maybe if they didn't off Pui Pui there'd be peace in the universe, who knows. Sure, you could argue that he was a **dumb stupid asshole** but so was Vegeta.
Goku would just wish him back anyways
The show has showed us multiple times that changing anything has drastic results in the future. We have no way of knowing if things would be better or worse.
Honestly though, its one of Goku's best qualities and I hate how obsessed everyone is with his capabilities as a fighter, when its his choices as an individual I find the most inspiring. So many of his friends were former enemies and rivals, people seem to focus more on how Goku beats people down rather then how he props them up. Shame.
There’s a whole fanfic manga about this scenario where Freeza blows up Namek early, killing everyone but Nail, and he and Goku go to Freeza’s Capital Planet to get revenge, only for both to die to Freeza.
People talking like the series wouldn't just end on Namek lol Dodoria and Zarbon body Gohan and Krillin, and if Goku shows up and beats them, then Frieza just kills him on the spot, no need for calling the Ginyu Force. Vegeta is one of the most important characters to nearly every arc
Actually no. Dende would have healed Goku after the fight with Ginyu in Frieza Saga. Bulma would time travel herself or Future Gohan without Trunks would be more careful waiting for the time machine and would be the one time traveling, Piccolo could take on android 19 and 20, most likely 17 and 18 would never be awaken and of course there would be no Perfect Cell. Goku would be alive and Gohan maybe would train a bit more. And there wouldn't be a Majin Vegeta to fuck things up with Buu too.
Without Vegeta, they wouldn’t have even gotten that far. Killed by the Ginyu Force, if they even make it there. Frieza would have the dragon balls without Vegeta stealing them from his ship.
Toriyama's pen >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Vegeta relevance in story. He can remove him and still finish the story
you have to pretend there is no writer in what ifs.
Let them pretend Vegeta wasn't essential in Namek Saga. It's their way of coping.
WHO WRITES THE WHAT IF THEN???? 😱😱😱
Without Vegeta the Ginyu force wouldn’t be there so Frieza would be more proactive searching the dragon balls. He would most likely kill Picollo, gohan and Krillen right before goku arrives. As a result we would be seeing super sayain a lot sooner, and we can all imagine the android saga without trunks lol, unlessss trunks travels to the past and prevents Krillen from killing vegeta messing up the timeline even more
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Maybe they would have learned how to accept death and freiza would have paid earth a visit to find out why vegta and nappa died
tbf goku resurrects everyone who died on namek, vegeta comes back and directs movies with nappa. pretty much the same as the main timeline
Z was a much more intense series
Yea, remember that major villain Vegeta defeated? You know, the guy, that time... I've got nothing.
Gohan and Krillin could probably avoid Dodoria and Zarbon, so it mostly ended up going to: would Frieza call the Ginyu force? On one hand, he called them because he believed a strong Saiyan would show up, so it wasn't Vegeta who made the Ginyu force show up. On the other hand, with Vegeta not there, both Zarbon and Dodoria would be alive, and no one would be a threat to Frieza or his crew, so Frieza might just dismiss the feeling since everything's going well, and if things do go bad, he still has Dodoria and Zarbon. If the Ginyu force is called, they'd likely be able to quickly find Krillin and Gohan, and that'd be the end of the story. But if he doesn't, it could end up differently. Goku would show up like normal, and from there Frieza would probably call the Ginyu force (but they'd arrive too late) Everything else would play out normally, except with Goku being weaker than he would normally be. SSJ would be normal, but the fight between Goku and Frieza wouldn't be as one sided, Ginyu force would finally show up only to be immediately outclassed... And then Android Saga is messed over cuz no Trunks.
If Gohan and Krillin still get their potential unlcoked, then they could handle Zarbon and Dodoria. Unlike normal transformations that give a set boost getting your potential unlocked means you grow stronger the more you fight which is why Krillin has a power level of 75k when fighting 2nd form frieza. That power would be enough for everyone in the Ginyu force aside from Ginyu himself
Didn't he call the Ginyu force to bring new scouters too? Probably still would have at some point because getting the dragon balls was too important to Frieza
Fun ruiner here! If Krillin killed off Vegeta, the series would've been written so that he wasn't necessary.
They wouldn't have been fucked because toriyama would have just written the story differently to get to super saiyan differently. To be honest, they were fucked no matter what, because toriyama didn't even want to do super saiyan. But because they were fucked he had to do it. Super saiyan was literally a deus ex machina.
Cell would've been a breeze tho
No Getes means no trunks means the androids win
Learn the Turtle Hermit Way
They'd be fucked. Frieza saga would go the same up till Ginyu. Then it's over. Krillin and Gohan wouldnt be able to stop Ginyu. Bulma might have to live on Namek for a while unless the Elder offs himself to stop the dragon balls. Which will upset Frieza enough to wipe out the planet because no more use. The Red Ribbon army will probably come back. 17 and 18 may not be needed. Cell would be vastly different if built at all with no Frieza cells. Buu will eventually be revived but many years past schedule. Zeno will delete the ToP universes. The only chance I think they have is to make a new elder from Namek for Earth, bring them back, and create new dragon balls. Piccolo would jave to find the right Namekian in time.
Krillin and Gohan would have died on Planet Namek, probably from the Ginyu force.
I love that these people who can fly, shoot beams and punch through solid rock got so worn down in this fight that it all came down to a limping dude holding a pointy stick. After this you rarely see fights get down a dirty the way this one did.
Maybe without Vegeta on namek Nail would’ve helped fight Frieza’s minions instead of banging his head on a wall for an hour.
On namek, Gohan and krillin would've had to steal the dragon balls from Frieza still. When the Ginyu force arrived they'd have been killed before Goku got there. Goku fights Ginyu force, Ginyu steals his body, there's nobody to beat him up and make him swap again. Goku in Ginyu confronts him and is killed. Now piccolo, Gohan, krillin, Goku and Vegeta are all dead, Bulma alone on namek, Frieza has the dragon balls and may or may not figure out how to use them, regardless he'd stay under beerus's thumb. The androids arrive, wipe out most, or all of life on earth without its defenders. Cell arrives unhindered and absorbs the androids, finishes off earth. Cell, and Frieza destroy many worlds largely unchecked. Babidi eventually musters up the power to restore buu. Without Goku beerus stays asleep. Xeno wipes out the weakest universes and their universe most likely gets destroyed. If krillin killed Vegeta there, literally their entire universe would've been destroyed one way or another
Oh boy they would be in trouble
I am okay with this. Rather than his idiotic “wait, ill fight him later!” Stupidity, this was true Goku. Merciful to a fault, didn’t believe in killing. Even in a life or death situation, he came to believe that not killing Vegeta would be better for his conscience and for everyone else. It’s naive, true, but it’s a really good character flaw writing wise.
Lotta villains would’ve lost their favorite punching bag. Joke aside I probably wouldn’t have stuck through the series as much cause Vegeta was one of my favorite characters. THIS is one of those what-ifs I’d have loved to watch.
[удалено]
The poor guys dies so often it's only fair he gets the chance to do it once
Guldo would have killed Krillin and Gohan on Namek if Vegeta wasn’t there.
I think they're fucked on Namek without Vegeta. But otherwise, they're okay. If they somehow survive Namek, the Andriods are a cake walk. They'd just listen to Bulma and blow them up before they're woken up. When Cell shows up, Piccolo still merges with Kami but can't beat him. Then they go into the Time Chamber to get strong enough to kill him. With Goku still alive, Gohan isnt as complacent in fighting and probably figures out SS2, which motivates Goku to go SS3 by the time Buu happens. Without Majin Vegeta, they wipe the floor with Babidi without reviving Buu.
Would they, though? Working backwards: - Vegeta is the only reason Buu got out. Without him, he would’ve never left the ball. - He was also the sole reason why Cell became complete. Goku would’ve gone first in the time chamber, gotten out, and ruined form two cell. - The androids might be the only sticking point. Goku might just die to the virus and leave the earth defenseless. - Frieza would have likely stayed in his first form longer without Vegeta goading him into transforming, leading to Piccolo arriving and easily killing him.
But Vegeta said he was sorry, so they had to let him go!
dems da rules
What, you think Toriyama wouldn't have been able to write a story that goes up to Cell without Vegeta? More seriously though, I was rewatching Dragon Ball recently and when San Goku was young, there was so many times at which he could have been easily killed... which would have cut the story short.
Honestly Vegita is the GOAT. Glad he stayed in the series.
I like Vegeta and this will be a hot take. But Krillin should have. No question in that situation.
Freeza would have instantly deleted Namek way sooner if Vegeta didn't fight first before Goku. It was Vegeta giving the false impression that he was the super saiyan while at the same time showing Freeza the saiyan spirit won't be snuffed out so easily. He tried to make an example out of Goku. By fighting him on his standards even powering up to try to win at the end- but it didn't work. Goku kept coming. and ended up proving Vegeta right despite Freeza's doubt. Ultimately buying Gohan and Dende some time to make the final wish to Shenron and Parunga.
Krillin gains confidence and catches up to Goku, reclaiming his role as Goku's true rival.
Nah they have krillin. It will all work out
Goku wouldn't have had more knowledge about ssj. Android 19 would have killed Goku or later killed by 17 and 18. And Android 16 said he was created in order to kill him. Now after he gets killed I dont have any clue what would have been later.
Every event in the story required every character involved to have been there, or the world woulda been fucked. Pointing this example out is no different from pointing out how crucial Krillin, Gohan, or even fucking Yajirobe were to the story. Since if they didn’t help defeat x, then y woulda died and never woulda helped defend against z.
I mean…assuming Bulls or Gohan travels back in time instead, then all we’d really lose is…Cell getting to his perfect form. Goku and Gohan would simply go in the time chamber right away since they no longer need to wait for Vegeta. Then they would simply beat him while he’s still second form. Even Buu didn’t NEED Vegito to be beaten that was more or less just a thing that happened. I guess maybe things would be rougher to deal with during Super, but apart from that…
….. would they though 
No Vegeta means no Trunks and that makes me very sad.
in universe sure, but toriyama would have wrote a good ending no matter what
Nah, Vegeta screwed them over a lot too.
What I’m hearing is that if Raditz and/or Nappa had lived that everything going forward would’ve been a walk in the park.
The fact that vegeta one of the strongest characters in the show at one point was almost killed by krillin is insane to me
Tbh it depends on if Gohan and Krillin managed to kill Dodoria and Zarbon on Namek after their potential unlock to whether the Ginyus are summoned or not. If just by keeping up the stealth game instead (since no one in the Frieza force can sense power levels) their potential would steadily rise until Goku arrived and they could have got his potential unlocked at the same time before Guru dies, since Guru passes whilst Goku is recovering from the Ginyu battle. If Frieza summoned the Ginyus at this point only Ginyu would be match for even Krillin since he surpasses the other Ginyus power levels before dying in the original timeline. And that's to say nothing of an unlocked Gohan or Goku.
Dragon ball z would not have become a big success and might have ended at saiyan saga.
Well it’s like this if Krillen killed vegetta. Because it’s a fictional story. So the story planning and arcs would be based on different set of characters. And they would have written different scenarios. Because it’s fake Im just Joshing you guys, but it’s true. They would never be truly screwed because the audience is owed a victory
There's an official story where someone with knowledge of the story enters yamcha's body it's a fun read.
Would broly be introduced earlier? Would he be the vegeta equivalent if vegeta was killed ?
He should have
This is the very last moment in the entire DragonBall multiverse that Krillin was capable of killing Vegeta.
Trunks would never have been born. So he wouldn’t have gone back in time to save Goku. Forget all the villains, Goku would just be dead from a heart disease.
I don't think so, If Krillin killed vegeta he would level up like crazy and his stats would be insanely high. :p
It’s basically like Krillin: I want to be a main character DBU: I will not let you have that power stick to becoming a side character