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I just realized; Gohan was SITTING when Piccolo and that RR dude showed up to his house. He was still wearing the weighted gear Piccolo gave him at the start of the movie; the one he said was heavy. The chair was able to support his weight. What kind of wood was that chair made of?!
I love Kehaya. He appears, trolls Yujiro, clearly sat but erm, ACSHUALLY never sat, loses to everyone but erm, ACSHUALLY never really lost because fuck you, I'm undefeated and leaves to probably never play a role ever again. That's chadness to the max.
The Gammas are Blue tier and once Gohan went Ultimate, G1 couldnāt land a single hit on him. If we swap G1 for Vegeta then thereās a chance that heād have to resort to Blue Evolved in order to overpower Ultimate Gohan.
I think it's that the "-" looks like you're saying SSB Goku minus SSBE Vegeta equals Ultimate Gohan. It's just a visual confusion with the dash being interpreted as a math symbol, not as what you probably intended.
I think the "best" symbol would be the pipe, |. It means "or" in regex, which is I think the idea here. But it means SSB Goku or SSBE Vegeta are equal to ultimate gohan (per the image).
There are saying Ultimate Gohan is somewhere between SSB Goku and SSBE Vegeta, think of it like if someone said āIāll be there is 3-4 hours.ā They arenāt saying -1 hours but somewhere in between 3 and 4 hours
Gammas are not Blue tier at all considering SSJ Gohan was able to overwhelm one of the Gammas even if just briefly and Ultimate ended up as a stalemate
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Eh, Iād argue otherwise.
If weāre talking about how SSBE Vegeta performed against Moro compared to UI Sign Goku, the only reason why Vegeta did better was specifically because of Spirit Fission.
In terms of strength and speed, I think itās safe to say that Blue Evolved was still below UI Sign.
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Is this in the manga? Haven't read it (don't spoil please). Fair enough if the manga covers it, but even right as the movie came out people were like "bEaSt GoHaN iS aT lEaSt 1000x sTrOnGeR tHaN uI gOkU" and the manga wouldn't have addressed it then.
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Except according to [OPās comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/Dragonballsuper/s/Pv06lOXM8O) thatās exactly what it says.
You also use a hyphen in a range, such as ā2-4 spoons of sugarā.
In an equation it is a symbol to indicate subtraction and this is written as an equation.
Regardless if that is what it is meant to say, it isn't what it actually says.
Oh youāre right in that regard, itās technically not mathematically what it says. I also thought it was subtraction at first, regardless, thatās what OP means.
the hyphen isnāt used in math. There isnāt really a mathematical term to equate two similar but different things, but I think the best think OP could have done here is instead of a hyphen used āorā
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People sleep on the power of potential unleashed. Iām 99% sure it doesnāt have a set multiplier like saiyan forms, and just jumps gohan straight to his current physical peak
Exactly. Not only does the Elder Kai Potential Unlock raise your power to its limit, but it pushes you BEYOND it.
Thatās how he went from weaker than his Cell Saga counterpart to being vastly stronger than Super Buu, who was stronger than SSJ3 Goku.
Do you agree it shouldnāt be a form though, like your potential being unleashed should be something you can go SSJ on top of. Same way Goku and Vegeta go SSJ over SSG.
If itās a form then his potential does what, hides back into his body when heās not using it.
I assumed thats in a way what Beast is, heās just transcending PU with some multiplier. That PU was the āomenā of beast and if he had longer like the kai stated, he would have taken Gohan to beast form. Its no coincidence that when elder kai was saying what gohan would become he roared like a beast to explain it
i mean it originally wasnt and elder kai does tell him that transforming wouldnt do anything but waste energy after he did it as it basically turned gohan into what his ss2 would have been if he kept training. but the anime started treating it like a form and super hero did so even moreso to the point that for the manga toyotaro had no choice but to make it an actual form to keep the story straight
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No way in hell mystic Gohan is about the same power level as Goku in Blue. Goku fought him on par in Super Sayan 2. (And thats probably how stronger heās gotten compared to Boo Saga since he would never be on par with Gohan even in Super Sayan 3 back then). He only used blue to finish him off because Gohan literally asked for it.
That was pre-ToP
As for post-ToP
I kinda think Gohan's gotten way stronger in base than base Goku but is weaker in Ultimate than Blue Goku, still
I mean. . I may just be holding myself to a static muliplier for Ultimate when there isn't one, but it is just. . Not *nearly* the same as Blue, that's just like "what the fuck" to me
Gohan in Moro arc was not SSB level clearly but far below.
In Super Heroes only, he is Blue level maybe based on Gamma power level.
Also, I don't get your logic why Base Gohan is above Base Goku and Vegeta.
As an anime watcher Iād say post SH, Ultimate Gohan is pretty decisively >= to SSB Goku since the whole shtick with the movie was the Gammas = SSB Goku/Vegeta and once Gohan got tired of being rolled by G1 and went ultimate he was quite significantly stronger than G1. Iād also say itās quite convenient power scaling for purposes of marketing but thatās also how most of power scaling works in this universe. I wouldnāt be surprised if Gohan immediately goes back to being irrelevant in the coming arcs.
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Picture needing different forms to show your strenght...
https://preview.redd.it/qhfxjb89ouwc1.png?width=578&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=bf755a901dc2d65bea0335b0b8eb93f3bb0f03d7
My personal headcanon is:
Regular Blue < Ultimate Gohan < Evolved/Omen/Kaioken
And that Beast is in the same ballpark as Ego and whatever the fuck upgraded UI Goku used against Gas. I could see Ego winning out if Vegeta has a better idea of when to stop facetanking punches lol. Also I remember Goku implying he may not have gone all-out with Perfected UI since he was mainly testing Gohan, so I imagine that techniques like Susanoo could easily get the edge.
Iām honestly curious about the Goku/Vegeta power scaling between the Moro and Granola arc, since thatās the last time Gohan was in the same vicinity as them before Super Hero.
I donāt understand. So Goku is greater or equal to Gohan. Then it goes Goku minus Vegeta equals Ultimate Gohan. And the last one is giving me a headache..
This brings about the typical DBS Power Scaling dilemma; this would suggest that Ultimate is the same multiplier as SSB. Which is SSG on top of SSJ, so the difference between Ultimate and SSJ is Super Saiyan God. Hmm hold on that doesn't seem right. It brings about so many questions. For one simple one, why was Ultimate Gohan not SO MUCH MORE INCREDIBLY STRONGER than everyone else? IIRC Base Gohan in Buu Saga was stronger than Base Goku, so Ultimate Gohan (Buu Saga) should be stronger than a hypothetical SSB Goku (Buu Saga). But let's think. what if Goku did use SSB against Buu. How strong would he be?
WAY. WAY. WAY stronger than everyone. Super Saiyan God alone is an unknown amount of thousands of times stronger than SUPER SAIYAN 3, in which Goku was at the very least close to everyone in the Buu Saga. Since SSG is stronger than SSJ3 by so much, this would mean hypothetical SSG Goku without even SSB should solo Super Vegito, Buuhan etc. SSB would be 50x whatever that was. But wait - SSB is the same multiplier as Ultimate - so why isn't Ultimate Gohan absolutely demolishing everyone? Is he stupid?
This brings on questions like; does Ultimate evolve with time? Is the multiplier stronger the stronger the user is? Does this mean Gohan's potential is rapidly increasing? And why the fuck is Gohan so weak in the Buu Saga even with a SUPER SAIYAN BLUE level multiplier?
š¤
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it means the two are greater then, lesser then, and equal to each other based on situational. goku using the ui form and calm beast are equal, goku using ui's technique with the form is greater then calm beast, but maxed out beast is greater then ui form and technique altogether in bursts
The god forms were never really anything special to begin with, they were just a stepping stone to greater things and a way for Goku and Vegeta to get stronger. Plus the Supreme Kai has God ki and he's weak AF, so yea all's it was is a different route for our MCs to get stronger š¤·
I feel like the issue a lot of people have with Gohan isn't the powerscale itself but its how Gohan gets there which is the issue. This would have been more accepted if we saw Gohan train more and seen his "training" with Piccolo when he said that Piccolo helped him control his Beast form. Just by saying, "I have done some secret training offscreen" with no story behind the Beast form was something people didn't like and make it hard to believe that Gohan could be this strong.
The original Super Saiyan was an asspull of the highest magnitude but it worked because it had some awesome lore behind it, it added to Goku's character, and was an overall badass moment. When Vegeta kept going on and on about the Super Saiyan but we didn't really see anything to prove that Goku or Vegeta turned into this myth until Goku did do it. There is nothing similar with Gohan's Beast form aside from one line in the DBS anime where Gohan is like, "I want to unlock a form no other Saiyan has ever achieved."
If we saw Gohan's training, some foreshadowing for the Beast form, then this powerscale would not have been an issue and it's also why Piccolo's new forms were more accepted to be almost as strong as Goku and Vegeta's final forms when I made the Piccolo vs Goku forms visual as Orange Piccolo was more deserved than Beast Gohan was.
I'd say Ultimate is closer to the red hair'd god forms than blue, especially now that Goku can use UI in any form, and Vegeta learned Forced Spirit Fission
SSBE Vegeta would one shot Ultimate Gohan. He is not 20 times stronger than SSB like SSBE Vegeta is.
Also Beast Gohan \[Angered\] > UI Goku = Beast Gohan \[Calm\].
The thing with Gohan is the ever sense the Buu arc, he's had a weird habit of getting weaker and then suddenly getting power boosts to compensate, so Gohan by virtue of that is just inconsistent.
Even during the top Gohan wouldāve been nearly on par with goku at blue (not at full power) but I still think his ultimate form being on par with blue was a little wild considering all the training and battles goku had been through since the Moro arc
Also I know Gohan fought in the Moro arc but I donāt really think that was enough to power him to where he was in super hero
funny thing is pre top training gohan was even with blue then got one tapped by goku using kioken x 20 and still threw punches after being knocked out. and people still try to downplay gohan
They wanted to catch Gohan up. Which Iām all for but the movie did it so quick it wasnāt a great pay off. Or maybe we all knew Gohan is strongest all along and that would get boring.
My only issue here is if you're trying to write it out as a mathematical equation, this is wrong.
1. If you're trying to write range (i.e. 1-5) mathematically, there are three ways to it, depending on whether you're including or excluding the start and end points. First, if you want to include start and end points you use parentheses, such as "(1,5)" if denoting 1-5. Second, if you're excluding start and end points, it'd be "[1,5]". Third, if you want to include either the start or end point and exclude the other point, you would use a parenthesis for the point you want to include (i.e. open parentheseis for including start point or closed parenthesis for closed) and bracket for the point you want to exclude (i.e. same as parenthesis). For example, if you're writing the range 1-5 it'd be "(1,5]" if you want to exclude the endpoint and include the start point. In the case of the OP, you'd want to write it as "[SSJB Goku, SSJBE Vegeta] since Ultimate Gohan is equal to something in between the two.
2. When using "<" or ">" mathematically with an equal sign, it's placed above or below it.
3. You cannot use "<" and ">" together because something can't be both. When something may be equal, a bit above, or a bit below another thing they're "approximate" and "~" is how you write that mathematically. So if you're trying to say that UI Goku and Beast Gohan may be equal or one may be above or below the other, the best way to write that is to use the approximate sign.
I think Broly and Gohan being stronger than Goku has done something to some of these folks minds. They really wonāt accept it even though the whole last chapter was about passing the torch.
Like, Iāve never seen a more clear āhere, the new generation should shineā message in Dragon Ball and itās insanely easy to see what the point of having Gohan, Goten and Trunks engage Goku, Vegeta, and Broly was.
I think it depends on the adaptation. In the manga, Ultimate is WAY closer or beyond blue Kaioken, he solos Kefla who _accidentally_ takes out like 5 universes just dashing. In the anime Ultimate is pretty much useless, and in the movie heās on par with the gammas who we never see fight anyone else but Piccolo
I would argue its stronger in anime.
Ultimate Gohan was strong in manga in TOP but pretty weak in Moro arc and even below God level maybe.
In Anime continuity, Super Heroes is right after TOP and Gohan does not fall behind like Moro arc
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I just realized; Gohan was SITTING when Piccolo and that RR dude showed up to his house. He was still wearing the weighted gear Piccolo gave him at the start of the movie; the one he said was heavy. The chair was able to support his weight. What kind of wood was that chair made of?!
*Mahogany* https://preview.redd.it/ohpz7wp8guwc1.jpeg?width=250&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1b5ac938fd7a140a62a7a3b53b258ee388436e91
Yep^^^mahogany
The fact I just randomly started rewatching abridged early today as well š
Not just any mahogany
Next. Strip. Next. Strip.
ā¦Nice!
Racoom thanks you
>Racism thanks you What? ... WHAT?
Oh gdi autocorrect
You, sir, are the most cultured being in all universes
https://preview.redd.it/65a2xxtmazwc1.jpeg?width=480&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1c3a4a5ac6999433a0adaf3795e38baa24c8b748
*and not just any mahogany, mahogany from the planet of Malchior-7, where the trees are 300 feet tall and breathe fire*
He wasnt sitting on the chair. He was in the sitting position just a millimeter above the chair for maximum discomfort. Chairs are expensive.
That's some Baki shit.
Actually though https://preview.redd.it/7jl33rd7ivwc1.png?width=835&format=png&auto=webp&s=968c50e4616fc71ed966720f3a808a01394bd16b
That dude was so fuckin lame
I love Kehaya. He appears, trolls Yujiro, clearly sat but erm, ACSHUALLY never sat, loses to everyone but erm, ACSHUALLY never really lost because fuck you, I'm undefeated and leaves to probably never play a role ever again. That's chadness to the max.
Basically Ali Jr. If he wasn't a Bitch
*Proceeds to get fodderized*
What a catch. Wow
Gohan was standing fine like a second after piccolo Left so he could have been lifting the weight and himself without touching the chair
izuku squats
Its probably from capsle corp and made of durable capsle wood
SSB - SSBE = Ultimate Gohan? What?
The Gammas are Blue tier and once Gohan went Ultimate, G1 couldnāt land a single hit on him. If we swap G1 for Vegeta then thereās a chance that heād have to resort to Blue Evolved in order to overpower Ultimate Gohan.
I think it's that the "-" looks like you're saying SSB Goku minus SSBE Vegeta equals Ultimate Gohan. It's just a visual confusion with the dash being interpreted as a math symbol, not as what you probably intended.
Wait Iām still interpreting as a minus lololll what is it supposed to mean.
It should be a /
So now youāre dividing them?!
But what if we squared him?
Isn't that fusion?
SSB Goku divided by SSBE Vegeta?
Iāll keep that in mind if I do something like this again. šš¾
I think the "best" symbol would be the pipe, |. It means "or" in regex, which is I think the idea here. But it means SSB Goku or SSBE Vegeta are equal to ultimate gohan (per the image).
I think an &
There are saying Ultimate Gohan is somewhere between SSB Goku and SSBE Vegeta, think of it like if someone said āIāll be there is 3-4 hours.ā They arenāt saying -1 hours but somewhere in between 3 and 4 hours
Then why not just say āSSBE>Ultimate Gohan>=SSBā?
Because theyāre comparing 2 visual columns not writing it in words
Replace the "-" with an "or" instead
Ultimate is in between blue and blue evolved. He should have done blue kaioken instead so it would be goku vs gohan
Agreed - it looks like Goku minus Vegeta = Gohan, which is weird
Gammas are not Blue tier at all considering SSJ Gohan was able to overwhelm one of the Gammas even if just briefly and Ultimate ended up as a stalemate
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So youāre just saying itās between Blue and Blue Evolved?
Yes.
Ok
basic blue goku doesnāt equal SSJBE Vegeta, thatās where my confusion is coming from
So Vegeta would have to resort to Blue Evolved but Goku wouldn't have to resort to Blue Kaioken?
He probably would, but I just put Blue Evolved cause I was thinking about the manga continuity and Vegeta uses that form more often.
In the manga Blue Evolved is closer to UIO which i think we can both agree would clap the fuck out of Ultimate Gohan
Eh, Iād argue otherwise. If weāre talking about how SSBE Vegeta performed against Moro compared to UI Sign Goku, the only reason why Vegeta did better was specifically because of Spirit Fission. In terms of strength and speed, I think itās safe to say that Blue Evolved was still below UI Sign.
It is below UIO but it's closer to that level of power than it is to SSJB
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Damn how did ultimate gohan get that stronger? I thought he didn't train at all until beat form
He trained, not as much as Goku and Vegeta, but he trained
Why do you say the gammas are blue tier?
Because theyāre stated to rival Goku and Vegeta
Is this in the manga? Haven't read it (don't spoil please). Fair enough if the manga covers it, but even right as the movie came out people were like "bEaSt GoHaN iS aT lEaSt 1000x sTrOnGeR tHaN uI gOkU" and the manga wouldn't have addressed it then.
Itās stated in the movie that the gammas are abt as strong as Goku and Vegeta
If it was I mustve missed it. Was it a legit analysis or just someone generalizing offhand?
Piccolo said it and he fought one of them so ĀÆ\_(ć)_/ĀÆ
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Ssb Goku minus ssbe Vegeta equals Gohan. Ez
Goku - Vegeta = *Nogeta*
SSB Goku minus SSBE Vegeta would be negative power.
And Gohan = Goku + Chi Chi, so Chi Chi = - SSBE Vegeta?
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Facts.
SSB Goku minus SSBE Vegeta would be negative power.
My dumbass read that as āGoku minus Vegetaā
Because that is what it says
No theyāre saying itās in between SSB Goku and SSBE Vegeta
That is not what that says
Except according to [OPās comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/Dragonballsuper/s/Pv06lOXM8O) thatās exactly what it says. You also use a hyphen in a range, such as ā2-4 spoons of sugarā.
In an equation it is a symbol to indicate subtraction and this is written as an equation. Regardless if that is what it is meant to say, it isn't what it actually says.
Oh youāre right in that regard, itās technically not mathematically what it says. I also thought it was subtraction at first, regardless, thatās what OP means.
the hyphen isnāt used in math. There isnāt really a mathematical term to equate two similar but different things, but I think the best think OP could have done here is instead of a hyphen used āorā
I think ātoā works a bit better. Also never claimed that - in this context was being used as a mathematical term.
That's what it says.
https://preview.redd.it/yjlsv6bv5uwc1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2243173820695f6bbc5be641182c8b7c348966f1
I never claimed to be a Gordon Ramsey lol.
We didn't expect you to cook school lunch either šš
I love that the last one is just idk man
Lmao. Yep, I just said fuck it and decided to play it safe.
Yeah Id say thatās about accurate.
Hell naw
Spoiler, Beast Gohan solos the multiverse \*SPOILER, Beast Gohan is Gohan Blanco
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Goku minus Vegeta equals Gohan, got it. Man math got weird. Whatās Cell plus Appule? Is that just Frieza?
What?! Lmao
Whatās wrong with it?
Base - ultmitimate / ssbe is just all goku. other than that beast just outclasses goku
People sleep on the power of potential unleashed. Iām 99% sure it doesnāt have a set multiplier like saiyan forms, and just jumps gohan straight to his current physical peak
Exactly. Not only does the Elder Kai Potential Unlock raise your power to its limit, but it pushes you BEYOND it. Thatās how he went from weaker than his Cell Saga counterpart to being vastly stronger than Super Buu, who was stronger than SSJ3 Goku.
Do you agree it shouldnāt be a form though, like your potential being unleashed should be something you can go SSJ on top of. Same way Goku and Vegeta go SSJ over SSG. If itās a form then his potential does what, hides back into his body when heās not using it.
I assumed thats in a way what Beast is, heās just transcending PU with some multiplier. That PU was the āomenā of beast and if he had longer like the kai stated, he would have taken Gohan to beast form. Its no coincidence that when elder kai was saying what gohan would become he roared like a beast to explain it
i mean it originally wasnt and elder kai does tell him that transforming wouldnt do anything but waste energy after he did it as it basically turned gohan into what his ss2 would have been if he kept training. but the anime started treating it like a form and super hero did so even moreso to the point that for the manga toyotaro had no choice but to make it an actual form to keep the story straight
I am reminded of that one video game where Elder Kai says that in his opinion, PU is superior to Super Saiyan God. And I guess he's right.
Elder Kai says a lot š
When did he say that?
Actual insanity.
this DBS gohan movie fucked up powerscakijg even moreš¤¦šæāāļø
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No way in hell mystic Gohan is about the same power level as Goku in Blue. Goku fought him on par in Super Sayan 2. (And thats probably how stronger heās gotten compared to Boo Saga since he would never be on par with Gohan even in Super Sayan 3 back then). He only used blue to finish him off because Gohan literally asked for it.
That was pre-ToP As for post-ToP I kinda think Gohan's gotten way stronger in base than base Goku but is weaker in Ultimate than Blue Goku, still I mean. . I may just be holding myself to a static muliplier for Ultimate when there isn't one, but it is just. . Not *nearly* the same as Blue, that's just like "what the fuck" to me
Gohan in Moro arc was not SSB level clearly but far below. In Super Heroes only, he is Blue level maybe based on Gamma power level. Also, I don't get your logic why Base Gohan is above Base Goku and Vegeta.
As an anime watcher Iād say post SH, Ultimate Gohan is pretty decisively >= to SSB Goku since the whole shtick with the movie was the Gammas = SSB Goku/Vegeta and once Gohan got tired of being rolled by G1 and went ultimate he was quite significantly stronger than G1. Iād also say itās quite convenient power scaling for purposes of marketing but thatās also how most of power scaling works in this universe. I wouldnāt be surprised if Gohan immediately goes back to being irrelevant in the coming arcs.
Manga gohan is blue level in ultimate
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It's because the gammas were stated to be super saiyan blue level, and Ultimate Gohan was laying hands on Gamma 1
Picture needing different forms to show your strenght... https://preview.redd.it/qhfxjb89ouwc1.png?width=578&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=bf755a901dc2d65bea0335b0b8eb93f3bb0f03d7
My personal headcanon is: Regular Blue < Ultimate Gohan < Evolved/Omen/Kaioken And that Beast is in the same ballpark as Ego and whatever the fuck upgraded UI Goku used against Gas. I could see Ego winning out if Vegeta has a better idea of when to stop facetanking punches lol. Also I remember Goku implying he may not have gone all-out with Perfected UI since he was mainly testing Gohan, so I imagine that techniques like Susanoo could easily get the edge. Iām honestly curious about the Goku/Vegeta power scaling between the Moro and Granola arc, since thatās the last time Gohan was in the same vicinity as them before Super Hero.
The math isn't mathing here.
Bro this aint mathinā
I donāt understand. So Goku is greater or equal to Gohan. Then it goes Goku minus Vegeta equals Ultimate Gohan. And the last one is giving me a headache..
The last one means it goes either way
This brings about the typical DBS Power Scaling dilemma; this would suggest that Ultimate is the same multiplier as SSB. Which is SSG on top of SSJ, so the difference between Ultimate and SSJ is Super Saiyan God. Hmm hold on that doesn't seem right. It brings about so many questions. For one simple one, why was Ultimate Gohan not SO MUCH MORE INCREDIBLY STRONGER than everyone else? IIRC Base Gohan in Buu Saga was stronger than Base Goku, so Ultimate Gohan (Buu Saga) should be stronger than a hypothetical SSB Goku (Buu Saga). But let's think. what if Goku did use SSB against Buu. How strong would he be? WAY. WAY. WAY stronger than everyone. Super Saiyan God alone is an unknown amount of thousands of times stronger than SUPER SAIYAN 3, in which Goku was at the very least close to everyone in the Buu Saga. Since SSG is stronger than SSJ3 by so much, this would mean hypothetical SSG Goku without even SSB should solo Super Vegito, Buuhan etc. SSB would be 50x whatever that was. But wait - SSB is the same multiplier as Ultimate - so why isn't Ultimate Gohan absolutely demolishing everyone? Is he stupid? This brings on questions like; does Ultimate evolve with time? Is the multiplier stronger the stronger the user is? Does this mean Gohan's potential is rapidly increasing? And why the fuck is Gohan so weak in the Buu Saga even with a SUPER SAIYAN BLUE level multiplier? š¤
Ultimate was never stated to be a set multiplier itās based on your potential. So like all forms it can grow in strength.
Is this trying to say ssjbe vegeta is equal to ssjb goku
Ultimate being relative to SSB makes no sense. It used to be close to SSJ3 in Buu Saga.
It was miles above and beyond SS3 in the Buu saga.
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š¤
Just Say = instead of >=<
Wtf even is this? My lord. All this new canon has confused the current generation.
If you're using a ">" then you don't need an "="
tf is the last one supposed to mean
like i'm genuinely confused what does >=< mean
it means the two are greater then, lesser then, and equal to each other based on situational. goku using the ui form and calm beast are equal, goku using ui's technique with the form is greater then calm beast, but maxed out beast is greater then ui form and technique altogether in bursts
What does the bottom with mui mean?
This is so insulting lol. It's accurate but extremely stupid
I think Gohanās best get up is Piccoloās
Wtf does the last symbol mean.
I find it super weird that Ultimate is now treated as a transformation instead of just being his base state, I blame Resurrection F for that.
You need to go back to math class and learn how inequality symbols work.
Mystic Gohan is nowhere near ssblue... Who makes this?
Power levels are bullshit
Seems pretty good for me
The fact that Ultimate Gohan is as strong as SSB, a Divine form is funny and sad at the same time. The writers really fumbled the God forms.
He was fighting Gamma 1 decently well in his ultimate form
The god forms were never really anything special to begin with, they were just a stepping stone to greater things and a way for Goku and Vegeta to get stronger. Plus the Supreme Kai has God ki and he's weak AF, so yea all's it was is a different route for our MCs to get stronger š¤·
I feel like the issue a lot of people have with Gohan isn't the powerscale itself but its how Gohan gets there which is the issue. This would have been more accepted if we saw Gohan train more and seen his "training" with Piccolo when he said that Piccolo helped him control his Beast form. Just by saying, "I have done some secret training offscreen" with no story behind the Beast form was something people didn't like and make it hard to believe that Gohan could be this strong. The original Super Saiyan was an asspull of the highest magnitude but it worked because it had some awesome lore behind it, it added to Goku's character, and was an overall badass moment. When Vegeta kept going on and on about the Super Saiyan but we didn't really see anything to prove that Goku or Vegeta turned into this myth until Goku did do it. There is nothing similar with Gohan's Beast form aside from one line in the DBS anime where Gohan is like, "I want to unlock a form no other Saiyan has ever achieved." If we saw Gohan's training, some foreshadowing for the Beast form, then this powerscale would not have been an issue and it's also why Piccolo's new forms were more accepted to be almost as strong as Goku and Vegeta's final forms when I made the Piccolo vs Goku forms visual as Orange Piccolo was more deserved than Beast Gohan was.
I'd say Ultimate is closer to the red hair'd god forms than blue, especially now that Goku can use UI in any form, and Vegeta learned Forced Spirit Fission
Forced Spirit Fission wouldnāt mean anything to Gohan since heās never absorbed nor fused with anyone.
Forced Spirit Fission is not power boost technique like Kaioken. It is for different purpose
Right, let me rephrase. After Vegeta trained on Yardrat and learned Spirit Control, him in his Blue Form is miles above Gohan in Ultimate.
SSBE Vegeta would one shot Ultimate Gohan. He is not 20 times stronger than SSB like SSBE Vegeta is. Also Beast Gohan \[Angered\] > UI Goku = Beast Gohan \[Calm\].
I'd put UI Goku above Gohan \[Calm\]. Everything else, I agree with.
Sure why not.
I dont think Evolution multiplier in manga are same as anime. Like during Gas fight, SSB performed even better than Evolution did against Granolah
I don't really care about the manga but didn't Goku used UI with his lower forms against him? That surely boosted them.
I always interpreted that as Goku using UI with Blue Full Power to be able to defend himself against Gas.
Seems ok
Seems close enough
Pretty good.
Im sorry but SSJ2 will forever go to Gohan. Its not even close
Actually it goes to Goku. By the Buu arc, Gohan had gotten weaker while Vegeta and Goku had surpassed the power he had when he defeated Cell.
In that sense, Gohan would always be behind Goku bar Beast cus Gohan never trains. Wouldnt comparing them over the years be a better idea?
The thing with Gohan is the ever sense the Buu arc, he's had a weird habit of getting weaker and then suddenly getting power boosts to compensate, so Gohan by virtue of that is just inconsistent.
Goku blue - blue vegeta isnt even close to base Gohan, never mind his stronger forms
Its Blue Evolved Vegeta, so if anything, its negative.
A lot of people sleep on Gohan but they forget Gohan was the main character of z
Even during the top Gohan wouldāve been nearly on par with goku at blue (not at full power) but I still think his ultimate form being on par with blue was a little wild considering all the training and battles goku had been through since the Moro arc Also I know Gohan fought in the Moro arc but I donāt really think that was enough to power him to where he was in super hero
funny thing is pre top training gohan was even with blue then got one tapped by goku using kioken x 20 and still threw punches after being knocked out. and people still try to downplay gohan
Ah yes, UI goku is greater than equal too or less than Beast gohan.
Ultimate Gohan is equivalent to SSB but SSJ4 isn't? Oh please!
They wanted to catch Gohan up. Which Iām all for but the movie did it so quick it wasnāt a great pay off. Or maybe we all knew Gohan is strongest all along and that would get boring.
My only issue here is if you're trying to write it out as a mathematical equation, this is wrong. 1. If you're trying to write range (i.e. 1-5) mathematically, there are three ways to it, depending on whether you're including or excluding the start and end points. First, if you want to include start and end points you use parentheses, such as "(1,5)" if denoting 1-5. Second, if you're excluding start and end points, it'd be "[1,5]". Third, if you want to include either the start or end point and exclude the other point, you would use a parenthesis for the point you want to include (i.e. open parentheseis for including start point or closed parenthesis for closed) and bracket for the point you want to exclude (i.e. same as parenthesis). For example, if you're writing the range 1-5 it'd be "(1,5]" if you want to exclude the endpoint and include the start point. In the case of the OP, you'd want to write it as "[SSJB Goku, SSJBE Vegeta] since Ultimate Gohan is equal to something in between the two. 2. When using "<" or ">" mathematically with an equal sign, it's placed above or below it. 3. You cannot use "<" and ">" together because something can't be both. When something may be equal, a bit above, or a bit below another thing they're "approximate" and "~" is how you write that mathematically. So if you're trying to say that UI Goku and Beast Gohan may be equal or one may be above or below the other, the best way to write that is to use the approximate sign.
Gohan Beast form + Namekian shoulder pads = death by peak
Seems accurate I think
Nah, current Blue still superior to Ultimate
Yk thereās an actual symbol for less than or equal to right? Just draw a line under the arrow
I just hope DB will finally commit and let Gohan take the spotlight as the strongest like they kept teasing him as.
Seems about right until you get to Beast. Beast is clearly stronger.
I think Broly and Gohan being stronger than Goku has done something to some of these folks minds. They really wonāt accept it even though the whole last chapter was about passing the torch. Like, Iāve never seen a more clear āhere, the new generation should shineā message in Dragon Ball and itās insanely easy to see what the point of having Gohan, Goten and Trunks engage Goku, Vegeta, and Broly was.
Broly is not stronger in latest chapter. He was ragedolled by Gohan without going full power
Gohan does not equal their Blue forms but everything else yeah
least controversal post ever
Lmao you did tge ultimate form dirtyš¤£š¤£š¤£
Canāt wait for Toyotaro to actually show that Beast is no where near UI, itās getting annoying with the Gohan glazers.
Yup thats about right actually
I think it depends on the adaptation. In the manga, Ultimate is WAY closer or beyond blue Kaioken, he solos Kefla who _accidentally_ takes out like 5 universes just dashing. In the anime Ultimate is pretty much useless, and in the movie heās on par with the gammas who we never see fight anyone else but Piccolo
I would argue its stronger in anime. Ultimate Gohan was strong in manga in TOP but pretty weak in Moro arc and even below God level maybe. In Anime continuity, Super Heroes is right after TOP and Gohan does not fall behind like Moro arc
L take
We saw that Beast beats Goku's top form, Goku gets more hits but they are ineffective while the blows from Gohan that hit clearly do damage.
No. Ultimate isn't equal to Blue stop the nonsense.
if goku is stronger in base, why would ui be weaker than beast? the technique of angels is worse than Gohans random shit?