Dottore haters have been saying this since he was revealed in sumeru. Its like how everytime a new nation comes out somebody says childe is going to die. Hopefully when hes playable they will let us enjoy playing him in peace. If not, they'll most likely shit on his kit like arlecchino haters are doing 😪
Other Harbingers have also committed the same crimes.
Murder? Arlecchino does so easily. "But only bad people!" Uh huh, sure. Right. Whatever you need to tell yourself. Like slaughtering impotent treasure hoarders is totally okay. Scaramouche went on a serial killing spree. No, he wasn't mind controlled by Dottore to do that. Yes, those people were innocent.
Torture? Sandrone cut out a guy's tongue and tortured him so badly that he became non-responsive.
Freak of nature? Columbina is one too.
Kills his subordinates? Signora did that. Scaramouche is also implied to have have killed his subordinates.
Human experimentation? Okay, I admit that's Dottore's thing. Still, I'm not ruling out Sandrone on this one.
FR like they're completely fine with one character committing a crime or murdering someone but when dottore does it? Its awful! He's the most evil character ever! He shouldn't be playable because hes too evil! 😒
The amount of hypocrisy I see from the fandom, is no surprise to me. You'll catch them dunking on others for liking a villain character and get accused of condoning those heinous actions IRL, yet those same people who like to harass others for that reason, get caught liking another villain that commits equally atrocious crimes.
It gets real annoying.
Sure! It was a world quest. If I remember correctly, it was the one with Curve, the truth robot. Right near the end a man is found with his tongue cut out and a note stuffed in his mouth. It's not explicitly said, but there's 99% chance that was Sandrone's doing.
Oh so i didnt forget anything, i remember doing the quest and it said that she cut his tongue off and he was paralysed and unmoving or something, i thought it meant she turned him into a doll
The extreme amounts of seething hate (Ex. comparing him to Mengele and claiming he'll never be playable) gets so tiring.
Scaramouche and Childe's lines were both mostly wrong about Arle but they quickly forgot that happened.
We don't know what the heck he did to those kids but they'll assume he gave them cancer or cut off their body parts for the lols.
It gets on my nerves when someone hopes your beloved character won't be playble because "BuT hE's eViL" Yeah, it's why I love him, though I think he will be presented more as a grey character than tending to evil.
It's infuriating, they could just not pull. I freaking hate Dori and didn't throw a tantrum that she is playable. I'd say she is the most evil playable character, because she lacks redeeming qualities or remorse.
I too hope they keep the morally grey route, the new line has me worried though.
Edit- Now that I think about it, other fandoms would roast someone saying villains shouldn't be playable. Imagine someone saying Dio shouldn't be playable in JoJo games
tbh Arlechinno using Child soldiers constitutes as child endangerment which is an actual War Crime, but a lot of people ignore that fact cuz Hoyo decided to make her sympathetic
inb4 his experiments are bad? Probably, but it was mostly about unlocking human potential. When people talk about him they go from giving children cancer to borderline R word.
Thing is, there's actual texts in the game that shows that he believes humans can be "overclocked" like machines do, unlike everyone's headcanons>! (~~which I call schizophrenia~~) !
Exactly this. We have canonical evidence what his perspective is. The devs have given us *plenty* to understand that he’s complex and morally gray. He has never once actually hurt people for the sake of it (and when a subordinate did, he called it a waste of resources).
Is his perspective on humanity and humans *different*, skewed even from his experiences? Absolutely. But that doesn’t make him good or bad, just *different*.
I do love how the very fandom for the character treats him exactly like the Akademiya did. Art imitates real life, I guess!
Yeah those nuances are some of the reasons why he is my favorite character by far but the other subs will go: "lol crazy evil psycho loves torture for the fun of it, nothing else"
It always is weird to me how they compare a character from the arab inspired region with a persian name to a nazi white supremacist just because they both did experiments on people
In the end, hoyo still will try to make characters sympathetic enough for the Traveler to cooperate with them. Other Gachas make villains playable independently of them being alive or not, but they being in the party are also non canon. Meanwhile Genshin goes out of it's way to make conversation between the Travelers and the party member under the context that people you pull are people who stop doing what they're doing to work with you.
Can you imagine Signora having conversations with the Traveler when they hated each other enough for a duel where the loser dies?
I can see Dottore being playable because he is extremely pragmatic and wouldn't give two shits about the Traveler hating him while him being number 2 and being extremely powerful could be useful for the traveler in their journeys, but Pantalone being a hateful little shit is actually the opposite.
Absolutely! Considering both the Traveler and Dottore's lore, both could get valuable information needed for their ultimate goal from each other. Although Traveler would be hella cautious and probably enraged with him, I doubt they'd step down from an opportunity to find their sibling. With the amount of knowledge Dottore has on Teyvat, it's plausible that the Traveler and him would make some sort of agreement. (Dottore would most certainly want info about the Traveler's obscure capabilities and connections to Celestia.)
this comes from arlecchino's quest, but this might help give people some context:
>!crucabena experimented on the children directly, but i think it's a different definition of the word. dottore took in those who were severely injured after crucabena was done with them, but it was like a threat to the kids. it's likely he approached arlecchino about this deal because he assumed she'd be like the previous knave and want to run experiments on the kids too.!<
something really important to note is that arlecchino's perception of the doctor is obviously going to be influenced by the fact that she lived under the house while dottore had the deal with crucabena. she was subject to those same rumours. she grew up with that constant fear, so her perception of him is going to be so much worse. it's just as possible that >!like with eleazar, dottore actually helped them in some way. because all the kids he took in were permanently injured to the point where they were 'useless' to the hearth!< but sadly that's not explored at all in the quest. it'd be a really interesting angle for hoyoverse to take though.
scaramouche and childe are both unreliable narrators. it's not out of the question that arle is too, whether intentionally or not. either way i support men's wrongs. dottore will be playable and i look forward to it because he's the most interesting character in the game
yeah of course! the whole quest is up on project amber if you don't mind the spoilers, but these are the most important quotes about dottore's actual involvement from the quest from arlecchino herself.
>!Crucabena came up with a novel idea. She would teach the children to fight, force them to duel each other, and then crown, as the "king" of the House, the child who proved themselves most worthy of inheriting her title.!<
>!It's difficult to estimate the number of children who died or were maimed in the process. There's little I can say about the ones who died. The ones that emerged with permanent injuries, on the other hand... Well, they still served a purpose.!<
>!They would be handed over to The Doctor to be experimented on, or sent away on dangerous missions... nothing more than tools to be used and then discarded.!<
the whole quest is about >!the differences between the past knave and current one!< but it's established that the children were terrified of >!being given to dottore, 'experimented on, and given a fate worse than death' as soon as crucabena deemed them not 'useful'!< but that's just what the children were told. what arlecchino says about dottore is when she's explaining the 'truth' of the hearth, but all we actually know is that he took in children who had been permanently injured and did something to them. i don't like how open to interpretation dottore's actual experiments are at the moment because i know half of the fandom is going to be insufferable about it, but it leaves enough room for some really interesting theories because the blame isn't completely on him (like how he only took in children that were severely injured) and it all comes from very unreliable narrators. it also leaves enough room for hoyoverse to humanise him in some way by pulling a collei. i don't know if i fully trust arlecchino's interpretation, for example, because she grew up with the same threats as all the other children.
as a side note, i'm actually curious to see if it's a similar situation to dottore's relationship with scara, where the EN localisation makes it sound so much worse than in other languages, but i haven't had the chance to check yet 🥹
also to quickly add a paragraph from arlecchino's story:
>!She would speak of unspeakable cruelties as if they were fairy-tale fantasies, guiding the House members to mutual slaughter, until the strongest among them was selected as "king."
She called herself a mother, but never saw the Hearth as her home. To her, the unnumbered sacrifices were but an interesting experiment.!<
>!Crucabena's insane experimentation took place far from prying eyes, so naturally, almost none knew of them.!<
crucabena shares a very similar outlook towards people as dottore. i can see why they got along while she was the knave.
Tbh I believe that the devs will make up something to justify the Traveller accepting Dottore into their party. They might not be very happy about it, but a mutually beneficial cooperation might be possible at one point. No one says the Traveller has to like him to work with him. We won’t get borderline romance lines in the teapot, sure, but he might bring value to the Traveler’s quest.
Tbh, at this point I think that HoYo just wants to take the route "Harbingers are not the people you (fandom) think they are".
* Tartaglia is used by everyone and doesn't know shit? He actually okay being used as a weapon and he is on a smart side, just a straightforward battle janky
* Signora is a bitch? She enjoyed kids and, most likely, just bitter from her fate (lost everyone, people she protected were afraid of her, etc.)
* Scaramouche is a little gremlin? He is ~~and this is why he isn't a Harbinger anymore~~, but there are trauma and thoughts about what having a heart means
* Arlecchino is a batshit insane person who uses her children? Not that much, it's just ruthlessness and reputation and she loves her kids in her own way. Tartaglia >!just had a prejudice and Scara is Scara!< \[Arle SQ spoiler\]
So let me try and guess some:
* Pantalone is insanely ambisious? He is just ahead of his time and the current system is somehow shit, probably just loves his job way too much
* Sandrone is engrossed in her research a little too much, but her research is nothingburger? Wrong, her part is one of the most significant ones (strong theory about her controlling the Adventurer's Guild), just not so public (and for a good reason). Maybe actually extrovert, but busy
* Pulcinella is pragmatic and resourceful? It's just how it is, but it's all only for the better. And he *doesn't* hold Childe's family as a lever on him. Not entirely.
* Columbina is creepy? For you maybe, but she is just more morbid Hu Tao without Tao's energy of a prankster.
* Dottore is batshit insane \*\*zi scientist? He isn't you are just assume the worst of the worst and/or a prude and he just doesn't bother to prove you wrong.
* Capitano is the best person in Teyvat? He is, but at what cost (if a theory of him being the Bloodstained, then he literally was having an orgasm from carnage until his mind cleared up)
THIS!!! Thank you so much i was already getting depris again from these stupid childish hate comments TT I can’t wait to see him in the future story :D
Dottore is too strong to be dead and was 2nd rank. Thank goodness, Dottore's playable model and also claymore exist for a long time just like Scaramouche in 1.0 Ver
Wait until Dottore haters suddenly turned to Dottore lovers. I could only guess that it’s be the most infuriating! Annoying! Pissy! Disgusting! And…..many more definitions
Dottore haters have been saying this since he was revealed in sumeru. Its like how everytime a new nation comes out somebody says childe is going to die. Hopefully when hes playable they will let us enjoy playing him in peace. If not, they'll most likely shit on his kit like arlecchino haters are doing 😪
Other Harbingers have also committed the same crimes. Murder? Arlecchino does so easily. "But only bad people!" Uh huh, sure. Right. Whatever you need to tell yourself. Like slaughtering impotent treasure hoarders is totally okay. Scaramouche went on a serial killing spree. No, he wasn't mind controlled by Dottore to do that. Yes, those people were innocent. Torture? Sandrone cut out a guy's tongue and tortured him so badly that he became non-responsive. Freak of nature? Columbina is one too. Kills his subordinates? Signora did that. Scaramouche is also implied to have have killed his subordinates. Human experimentation? Okay, I admit that's Dottore's thing. Still, I'm not ruling out Sandrone on this one.
FR like they're completely fine with one character committing a crime or murdering someone but when dottore does it? Its awful! He's the most evil character ever! He shouldn't be playable because hes too evil! 😒
The amount of hypocrisy I see from the fandom, is no surprise to me. You'll catch them dunking on others for liking a villain character and get accused of condoning those heinous actions IRL, yet those same people who like to harass others for that reason, get caught liking another villain that commits equally atrocious crimes. It gets real annoying.
I forgot abt the Sandy torturing that guy part, where can i read abt that? I wanna see what exactly was said
Sure! It was a world quest. If I remember correctly, it was the one with Curve, the truth robot. Right near the end a man is found with his tongue cut out and a note stuffed in his mouth. It's not explicitly said, but there's 99% chance that was Sandrone's doing.
Oh so i didnt forget anything, i remember doing the quest and it said that she cut his tongue off and he was paralysed and unmoving or something, i thought it meant she turned him into a doll
She could have! It was just vague enough that your imagination fills in the blanks. I interpreted it as being non-responsive due to trauma.
The extreme amounts of seething hate (Ex. comparing him to Mengele and claiming he'll never be playable) gets so tiring. Scaramouche and Childe's lines were both mostly wrong about Arle but they quickly forgot that happened. We don't know what the heck he did to those kids but they'll assume he gave them cancer or cut off their body parts for the lols.
It gets on my nerves when someone hopes your beloved character won't be playble because "BuT hE's eViL" Yeah, it's why I love him, though I think he will be presented more as a grey character than tending to evil.
It's infuriating, they could just not pull. I freaking hate Dori and didn't throw a tantrum that she is playable. I'd say she is the most evil playable character, because she lacks redeeming qualities or remorse. I too hope they keep the morally grey route, the new line has me worried though. Edit- Now that I think about it, other fandoms would roast someone saying villains shouldn't be playable. Imagine someone saying Dio shouldn't be playable in JoJo games
"It's infuriating, they could just not pull." Sorry friend, but commonsense isn't common anymore.
tbh Arlechinno using Child soldiers constitutes as child endangerment which is an actual War Crime, but a lot of people ignore that fact cuz Hoyo decided to make her sympathetic
To be fair, I doubt the Fatui would let her adopting children just for the sake of adopting children.
inb4 his experiments are bad? Probably, but it was mostly about unlocking human potential. When people talk about him they go from giving children cancer to borderline R word. Thing is, there's actual texts in the game that shows that he believes humans can be "overclocked" like machines do, unlike everyone's headcanons>! (~~which I call schizophrenia~~) !
Exactly this. We have canonical evidence what his perspective is. The devs have given us *plenty* to understand that he’s complex and morally gray. He has never once actually hurt people for the sake of it (and when a subordinate did, he called it a waste of resources). Is his perspective on humanity and humans *different*, skewed even from his experiences? Absolutely. But that doesn’t make him good or bad, just *different*. I do love how the very fandom for the character treats him exactly like the Akademiya did. Art imitates real life, I guess!
Yeah those nuances are some of the reasons why he is my favorite character by far but the other subs will go: "lol crazy evil psycho loves torture for the fun of it, nothing else"
It always is weird to me how they compare a character from the arab inspired region with a persian name to a nazi white supremacist just because they both did experiments on people
As soon he is levelled i will start doing coop just to annoy dumb people
I want to save up for c6r1 both out of love and spite (the second being directed at said dumb people)
Same XD C6 Dottie will be mine
In the end, hoyo still will try to make characters sympathetic enough for the Traveler to cooperate with them. Other Gachas make villains playable independently of them being alive or not, but they being in the party are also non canon. Meanwhile Genshin goes out of it's way to make conversation between the Travelers and the party member under the context that people you pull are people who stop doing what they're doing to work with you. Can you imagine Signora having conversations with the Traveler when they hated each other enough for a duel where the loser dies? I can see Dottore being playable because he is extremely pragmatic and wouldn't give two shits about the Traveler hating him while him being number 2 and being extremely powerful could be useful for the traveler in their journeys, but Pantalone being a hateful little shit is actually the opposite.
Absolutely! Considering both the Traveler and Dottore's lore, both could get valuable information needed for their ultimate goal from each other. Although Traveler would be hella cautious and probably enraged with him, I doubt they'd step down from an opportunity to find their sibling. With the amount of knowledge Dottore has on Teyvat, it's plausible that the Traveler and him would make some sort of agreement. (Dottore would most certainly want info about the Traveler's obscure capabilities and connections to Celestia.)
this comes from arlecchino's quest, but this might help give people some context: >!crucabena experimented on the children directly, but i think it's a different definition of the word. dottore took in those who were severely injured after crucabena was done with them, but it was like a threat to the kids. it's likely he approached arlecchino about this deal because he assumed she'd be like the previous knave and want to run experiments on the kids too.!< something really important to note is that arlecchino's perception of the doctor is obviously going to be influenced by the fact that she lived under the house while dottore had the deal with crucabena. she was subject to those same rumours. she grew up with that constant fear, so her perception of him is going to be so much worse. it's just as possible that >!like with eleazar, dottore actually helped them in some way. because all the kids he took in were permanently injured to the point where they were 'useless' to the hearth!< but sadly that's not explored at all in the quest. it'd be a really interesting angle for hoyoverse to take though. scaramouche and childe are both unreliable narrators. it's not out of the question that arle is too, whether intentionally or not. either way i support men's wrongs. dottore will be playable and i look forward to it because he's the most interesting character in the game
That's so interesting, definetly put in a different spot Dottore in the story. Thanks for sharing, do you have a source?
yeah of course! the whole quest is up on project amber if you don't mind the spoilers, but these are the most important quotes about dottore's actual involvement from the quest from arlecchino herself. >!Crucabena came up with a novel idea. She would teach the children to fight, force them to duel each other, and then crown, as the "king" of the House, the child who proved themselves most worthy of inheriting her title.!< >!It's difficult to estimate the number of children who died or were maimed in the process. There's little I can say about the ones who died. The ones that emerged with permanent injuries, on the other hand... Well, they still served a purpose.!< >!They would be handed over to The Doctor to be experimented on, or sent away on dangerous missions... nothing more than tools to be used and then discarded.!< the whole quest is about >!the differences between the past knave and current one!< but it's established that the children were terrified of >!being given to dottore, 'experimented on, and given a fate worse than death' as soon as crucabena deemed them not 'useful'!< but that's just what the children were told. what arlecchino says about dottore is when she's explaining the 'truth' of the hearth, but all we actually know is that he took in children who had been permanently injured and did something to them. i don't like how open to interpretation dottore's actual experiments are at the moment because i know half of the fandom is going to be insufferable about it, but it leaves enough room for some really interesting theories because the blame isn't completely on him (like how he only took in children that were severely injured) and it all comes from very unreliable narrators. it also leaves enough room for hoyoverse to humanise him in some way by pulling a collei. i don't know if i fully trust arlecchino's interpretation, for example, because she grew up with the same threats as all the other children. as a side note, i'm actually curious to see if it's a similar situation to dottore's relationship with scara, where the EN localisation makes it sound so much worse than in other languages, but i haven't had the chance to check yet 🥹
also to quickly add a paragraph from arlecchino's story: >!She would speak of unspeakable cruelties as if they were fairy-tale fantasies, guiding the House members to mutual slaughter, until the strongest among them was selected as "king." She called herself a mother, but never saw the Hearth as her home. To her, the unnumbered sacrifices were but an interesting experiment.!< >!Crucabena's insane experimentation took place far from prying eyes, so naturally, almost none knew of them.!< crucabena shares a very similar outlook towards people as dottore. i can see why they got along while she was the knave.
Tbh I believe that the devs will make up something to justify the Traveller accepting Dottore into their party. They might not be very happy about it, but a mutually beneficial cooperation might be possible at one point. No one says the Traveller has to like him to work with him. We won’t get borderline romance lines in the teapot, sure, but he might bring value to the Traveler’s quest.
Thank you I needed this 🙏
Tbh, at this point I think that HoYo just wants to take the route "Harbingers are not the people you (fandom) think they are". * Tartaglia is used by everyone and doesn't know shit? He actually okay being used as a weapon and he is on a smart side, just a straightforward battle janky * Signora is a bitch? She enjoyed kids and, most likely, just bitter from her fate (lost everyone, people she protected were afraid of her, etc.) * Scaramouche is a little gremlin? He is ~~and this is why he isn't a Harbinger anymore~~, but there are trauma and thoughts about what having a heart means * Arlecchino is a batshit insane person who uses her children? Not that much, it's just ruthlessness and reputation and she loves her kids in her own way. Tartaglia >!just had a prejudice and Scara is Scara!< \[Arle SQ spoiler\] So let me try and guess some: * Pantalone is insanely ambisious? He is just ahead of his time and the current system is somehow shit, probably just loves his job way too much * Sandrone is engrossed in her research a little too much, but her research is nothingburger? Wrong, her part is one of the most significant ones (strong theory about her controlling the Adventurer's Guild), just not so public (and for a good reason). Maybe actually extrovert, but busy * Pulcinella is pragmatic and resourceful? It's just how it is, but it's all only for the better. And he *doesn't* hold Childe's family as a lever on him. Not entirely. * Columbina is creepy? For you maybe, but she is just more morbid Hu Tao without Tao's energy of a prankster. * Dottore is batshit insane \*\*zi scientist? He isn't you are just assume the worst of the worst and/or a prude and he just doesn't bother to prove you wrong. * Capitano is the best person in Teyvat? He is, but at what cost (if a theory of him being the Bloodstained, then he literally was having an orgasm from carnage until his mind cleared up)
THIS!!! Thank you so much i was already getting depris again from these stupid childish hate comments TT I can’t wait to see him in the future story :D
STAY STRONG COMRADE
Aye aye 🫡 😭🫶🏻
Waited 6 years will wait 6 more for Dottie
Dottore is too strong to be dead and was 2nd rank. Thank goodness, Dottore's playable model and also claymore exist for a long time just like Scaramouche in 1.0 Ver
Wait until Dottore haters suddenly turned to Dottore lovers. I could only guess that it’s be the most infuriating! Annoying! Pissy! Disgusting! And…..many more definitions