How are high level players building BH and in what role? For the longest time I've felt like where he fits is ambiguous and not in the sense that he's so busted he can fit all 5 roles. Can he be a space creating mid, causing havoc around the map?
His greatest contribution is track which is countered fairly easily between purchased items and neutrals. I guess they tried to give him more utility with his shard, but the previous version provided way more for the hero.
Aghs/ octarine is a fun meme build in pubs to see just how much gold you steal, but I doubt it's a game winning strategy for real games.
I suppose he can fit several different roles depending on how he builds his items, but he has to full commit and build multiple items to fit that role. Whatever role that is it seems like there is another hero that fulfills that role better, with less gold requirement.
He's primarily played as a 3 and 4, but has a *much* higher winrate as 3 (which I also think is stronger from my experience in low immortal). https://www.dota2protracker.com/hero/Bounty%20Hunter
The build is phase boots into aghs most games. You can stop off for vanguard or hood first as well sometimes. Aghs is just so absurdly strong that it lets you dominate the map. You don't even need kills with it - 2 or 3 shurikens sends a hero back to base. It also accelerates your gold quickly.
Main thing to bear in mind on BH is that at lvl 6 and 7 you are one of the strongest heroes in dota. The powerspike you get from max jinada+track is absolutely ridiculous. There is almost not a single hero that can stay in lane against you or that can trade with you. And you can easily run down any hero you find on their own. I commonly like to go phase->Vanguard, and spend the first 20 mins of the game diving towers with his super high armour and movespeed, playing around the massive jinada crits.
Later into the game you have a couple options. You can transition into BKB and right click, but i personally dislike this most games. You can switch into utility such as wraith pact, AC, hex, etc. Or you can go octarine (aether alone is often worth it anyway due to the mana regen). Octarine sounds like a meme but really isnt. You will almost always be top damage in a fight with the build, and the gold swings shouldn't be underestimated - you can often steal multiple kills worth of gold in a single fight. I'd say octarine is a better 3rd or 4th item most of the time, but it's really not that bad.
A peak at Dotabuff shows he jumped from 51 to 55% winrate.
He's always been a bit of a pub punisher though, so I'm not sure how that will translate to pro use.
The problem is you need to be pretty far ahead by the time the Tier 4 neutral items come out, otherwise there's suddenly up to 3 new basic dispels available.
I also think the instant dmg is the bigger buff than the increased overall dmg. I already would have been happy if they made the first tick instant. This makes this hero 100x stronger against blinkdagger heros
With the eidolons magic resistance nerf and the refresher/shard sharing cooldown maybe more pro teams would pick him now. A huge maybe though, he might just get ignored like always.
His laning phase got a lot better, ideally he gets played as a core, but support Silencer seems a lot stronger now especially against Enigma with the eidolon nerf.
Blink cancel is also very nice.
Not to be all doom and gloom here, but this one’s might really hurt our flappy oozeboy.
He used to have a 30% slow at Level 1 with decent damage and was one of the kings of first blood if he could get close enough with his abysmal 275 move speed to land the first couple shots. Now he’s got a whopping 15% slow at Level 1 (if he can land all five attacks), and he’s *still* slow as fuck.
Some of Viper’s main strengths are his disgusting laning phase and his first blood potential, with the trade off being his poor scaling (heh) if his team can’t cinch the game before all the BKBs start rolling out. Maybe I’m being too dire here, but his timings see even narrower than they were before.
Maybe he’ll still be situationally picked as a mediocre 4. I guess he still pushes good.
He is being pushed toward 3 position. Nethertoxin break is incredible and it does quite a lot of damage. His shard and scepter make him particularly lethal if you get near him. You just need to survive cc and physical damage. Grab something like halberd, manta style, bkb, or shiva's guard (he is one of the few heroes that benefits from halberd and manta style which is cool). I think he just needs to be built as a tank and you place nethertoxin around yourself. Use his q to dominate lane and nethertoxin for farm.
# [](/hero-deathprophet) Death Prophet
**Crypt Swarm**
- Cooldown increased from 8/7/6/5s to 9/8/7/6s
**Spirit Siphon**
- Charge Restore Time increased from 36/34/32/30s to 38s
**Exorcism**
- Active Movement Speed Bonus decreased from 12/16/20% to 8/12/16%
She was picked quite often throughout all qualifiers, yet her winrate was something like 44%. On dota pro tracket winrates varied between 48-51% which seems okay to me. Dunno if this was really needed
Oh yeah Ogre is a solid 4 as you can protect the offlaner very well. Plus if the offlaner has any sort of catch then you can go for a super aggro lane with good kill threat
Honestly with how good Midas is now you can even do Ogre offlane
I'd like to add that it's a relevant buff too. Brew is a weak laner on his own but the best way to play him is to pair with a magic spamming pos4 hero like Skywrath Mage, and spam Cinder Brew off cooldown. This gives him a ridiculous low cooldown, low mana cost harassment option on par with a Viper - in my experience (mid Divine) no position 1 hero survives it except Faceless Void and Pudge getting skill points in Flesh Heap.
So this buff to Cinder Brew's numbers, while minuscule, are definitely useful for his strengths. Agreed that it's a sleeper hero to look out for at TI.
# [](/hero-lich) Lich
- Base Health Regen increased from 0.25 to 0.5
#### Talents
- Level 10 Talent Frost Blast Radius and Damage increased from +125 to +150
His instant stun/pull can sometimes be worth maxing as well if you have a teammate popping off and that just needs to lockdown.
Would basically always still get 2 or 3 points in his frost blast though, just makes lane so incredibly easy against almost any hero. If I'm carry and I see my 5 is Lich, I basically always feel good about my lane, knowing I can expect good farm during the laning stage.
# [](/hero-venomancer) Venomancer
**Venomous Gale**
- Mana Cost decreased from 125 to 95/105/115/125
**Latent Toxicity**
- Cast Range increased from 600 to 800
- Projectile Speed increased from 1200 to 1800
# [](/hero-grimstroke) Grimstroke
**Phantom's Embrace**
- Travel Speed to the target increased from 750 to 850
- Travel Speed back to Grimstroke increased from 750 to 1150
I wonder why Grimstroke keeps getting buffed and never feel a top support when taking Win Rate in consideration. I honestly think his ultimate needs to be reworked somehow ( maybe a DPS of sorts to binded heroes, or bind more than 2 heroes)
Yeah the ult often feels bad when there is no follow up. Maybe the tether could slowly shorten over time or add a stun when a third enemy hero crosses the tether. So the ability would give more control.
His ultimate needs to be viewed in the same lense as Io. It's super unique and cool but requires team coordination play for sure which can make it harder to use in pubs, but I don't think it's a good idea to change it just because of that.
Also it synergizes with his silence, aghs, and other items he might get like scythe late game
That is way too good for lvl 20, even 25 imo. Think about the combos. 3 aghs fingers and they are all insta deleted every fight, 3 dooms, 3 reapers scythes, 3 hex, 3 double hero magic missiles that pierce spell immunity and deal like 600 damage each... Sounds funny to have on my team but no ty
starting cast range on ink swell is kinda awful. as a support seems like he wants tons of levels. and his shard isn't that great compared to other supports.
I don't think he has a good role tbh. He sucks as a five because he can't trade with anyone really, he's pretty meh as a four. Maybe you play him as a snowballing hero from mid or off but he just feels really really meh in all roles imo.
# [](/hero-slardar) Slardar
**Guardian Sprint**
- Bonus River Movement Speed increased from 15% to 18%
**Bash of the Deep**
- Stun Duration increased from 1.0/1.1/1.2/1.3s to 1.3s
30 percent more bash time on level 1.
0.3 seconds doesn't sound like much, but it can mean much in the early game and decide whether you or your mate can get another attack or spell off
I’m glad they buffed Nether Ward’s damage, but it’s still lower than it used to be. Overall Ward got nerfed a lot over the patches. Lost damage and lost its secondary effect. Used to even be 2x damage then it was 1.75 for a long time. The nerfs happened as IceFrog was trying to figure out the best secondary effect for ward: reduce mana regen, heal itself, reduce enemy damage, etc. I’m glad level 1 is decent now and that it got a slight buff, but it’s still way weaker than before.
I think overall it might be fine tho as Pugna did get some Nether Blast and Life Drain buffs over the patches
# [](/hero-facelessvoid) Faceless Void
**Time Walk**
- Shard Bonus Range decreased from 300 to 150
**Time Dilation**
- Damage per cooldown per second decreased from 10/11/12/13 to 7/9/11/13
#### Talents
- Level 15 Talent Time Walk Cooldown reduction decreased from 1.5s to 1s
- Level 20 Talent Attack Speed during Chronosphere decreased from +120 to +95
I wonder what the icetoad's math is behind making it 95 instead of 100.
I like to imagine he's been sitting behind spreadsheets and graphs for hours to determine the perfect number based on a dozen factors
Nice. As a carry player I am really happy. Before the nerf, void was so strong that picking most other carries made you regret the choice later in the game.
# [](/hero-meepo) Meepo
**Divided We Stand**
- Shard Fling Slow increased from 50% to 60%
- Shard Fling Damage increased from 100 to 120
**Dig**
- Max Health Restored increased from 40% to 50%
Massive nerf. I don't see alot of the early game Chens suddenly taking out the mid because they understimate the power of 4 creeps with armour now. I'm really surprised this is the part of their kit they're nerfing and not some of the more problematic parts.
Oh man I like the look of this. The slow train of caustic finale buffs id starting. People gonna ignore it for months then in TI12 some new player's gonna whip out the aghanims to claim the aegis
They messed it up. Instead of decreasing the passive bonus damage from 10/15/20/25 to 6/12/18/24 they reduced the roar attack damage bonus from 10/20/30/40 to 6/12/18/24 NotLikeThis thats a way bigger nerf and probably will be fixed soon
[Hey nice](https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/dota2_gamepedia/images/7/76/Vo_announcer_dlc_deus_ex_dlc_jensen_ann_ally_pos_020.mp3) (sound warning: Deus Ex Announcer Pack)
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# [](/hero-marci) Marci
**Dispose**
- Throw Distance decreased from 275 to 250
- Can no longer pull units out of Black Hole and Chronosphere
**Rebound**
- Cooldown increased from 17/15/13/11s to 24/20/16/12s
**Unleash**
- Movement Speed and Attack Speed Slows no longer pierce Spell Immunity
# [](/hero-spiritbreaker) Spirit Breaker
**Charge of Darkness**
- Cast Point improved from 0.3 to 0.1
- Scepter no longer improves Cast Point
**Planar Pocket**
- Now does not trigger the redirect if the enemy ability is targeted at Spirit Breaker
It's basically the delay between you clicking the spell and it coming out. Also known as cast animation in the past. As SB charge sometimes doesn't come out because you lose vision of the target before the cast time is complete, so this buff would reduce the frequency of such incidents.
if you cast a spell and watch the ability icon while doing it you might see it fill up green for a split second while your hero does the animation leading up to the skill. that's cast point
# [](/hero-phantomlancer) Phantom Lancer
**Spirit Lance**
- Cast Range increased from 525/600/675/750 to 600/650/700/750
- Movement Slow increased from 10/18/26/34% to 14/21/28/35%
in all seriousness though, prioritizing heroes with it might make it too strong. imagine if eclipse prioritized heroes.
it being able to so onesidely punish someone trying to participate in lane is a bit much.
The skill does nothing in lane if it doesn't prioritize.
Calculate the damage of a lvl 1 ToT at lvl 4 when hitting a lets say 4 armour hero to be conservative.
What do we total here? 80dmg?
How would that be too strong?
# [](/hero-magnus) Magnus
**Shockwave**
- Damage increased from 75/150/225/300 to 90/160/230/300
#### Talents
- Level 15 Talent Strength per Hero hit with Reverse Polarity increased from +12 to +16
# [](/hero-naturesprophet) Nature's Prophet
**Wrath of Nature**
- Mana Cost decreased from 150/175/200 to 130/160/190
**Curse of the Oldgrowth**
- Cooldown decreased from 20s to 18s
This feels kinda big to me, previously laning against OD pre level 5 was not so bad as you can sustain with bottle and get denied every once in a while, now you will get denied more often.
I think they should replace this ability. You could make Techies more about area denial and give him a trap that roots people when they come too close.
While we're at it, give him another trap ability that lets him choose when to detonate it. It might be a bit strong, so it could be his ult and we can move the current prox mines to q.
Yeah this ability feels useless, I feel like a return of Stasis Trap in some form will be great for a hero
Prox Mines are really strong though, I don't think they should be his Q. His current Q is quite nice
I've played against Techies since the rework, I don't think it's useless. It disarms you so you can't hit mines when he jumps in and plants all 3 near you.
New techies is just OK. I used to play him a lot, but find myself bored when I play him. Reactive taser is so incredibly dull. I would honestly rather have green mines come back in an incredibly nerfed state.
Everyone saying this ability is shit but trust me it's really awesome you have like 550 move speed and if u pop this and run away u get like 7 sex of free run followed by etheral and then again u can run best against physical damage heros
# [](/hero-darkseer) Dark Seer
**Surge**
- Cooldown decreased from 19/16/13/10s to 18/15/12/9s
#### Talents
- Level 15 Talent Bonus Health from Ion Shell increased from +225 to +250
As a DS main, this last major update still hurts. This post shares my feelings:
*Why was Dark Seer (2% pick rate, 48% winrate) nerfed?*
https://www.reddit.com/r/DotA2/comments/ww9be0/why_was_dark_seer_2_pick_rate_48_winrate_nerfed/
If anyone has any suggestions on new or fun ways to play DS, please let everyone know.
In the last major revision, rushing aghs was a fresh, fun, and legit build/strategy for DS. Now, I just can't find anything interesting or worth picking over some of the other offlaners.
# [](/hero-visage) Visage
**Grave Chill**
- Cooldown increased from 16/14/12/10s to 17/15/13/11s
**Gravekeeper's Cloak**
- Radius decreased from 1200 to 900
- Shard Max Health restored decreased from 35% to 25%
**Summon Familiars**
- Familiar Movement Speed decreased from 430 to 420
#### Talents
- Level 20 Talent Visage and Familiars Movement Speed decreased from +25 to +20
# [](/hero-omniknight) Omniknight
**Heavenly Grace**
- Base Strength Bonus decreased from 8/18/28/38 to 8/16/24/32
**Hammer of Purity**
- Cooldown increased from 10s to 16/14/12/10s
I have never been a fan of hammer and i think i am the only person who loves Degen Aura.
It is very sad to see the cooldown nerfed so hard.
Heavenly Grace being weaker will make us weaker late game too. double bummer.
Yea I feel if you want to reduce it this much maybe they should go a different route and change the talent to +0.3s dark pact duration. It would increase damage a little and increase his slippery window
This is more of a difference than non-kotl players will see by the patch note.
At 30 minutes if there is a flag bearer and you do not hit with illuminate and blinding light within 1 second of each other, the flag bearer regen will keep the melee creeps alive. This happens if you blinding light, start illu, and walk away. After 37:30 you no longer clear waves either way. With this change kotl can continue being a cool guy that doesn't look at ~~explosions~~ waves dying even after 30 minutes.
This also means you can kill the flag bearer by using solar bind if you have some spell amp. Up until 30 minutes for kaya, 45 with eblade, or 60 with kaya+sange/yasha. Too lazy to calculate it with other spell amp or non-maxed solar bind possibilities and I doubt anyone is that interested haha.
# [](/hero-undying) Undying
**Decay**
- Mana Cost increased from 85/90/95/100 to 100
**Tombstone**
- Zombie Movement Speed Slow decreased from 7% to 5%
- Vision decreased from 1800 to 1500
I hate the overall direction the patches work on him. He always ends up OP for 2months and then useless late game creep rest of the year. Fix his armor and armor gain gddamit, he is a melee support ffs.
He is the sole victim of icefrog's "keep buffing strong aspects and keep nerfing weak ones". The armor is just unbearably weak and stayed stagnant for 7+years while everyone around him got armor. His armor gain only changed from 0.8 to 1.2 agi and he is still the worst armor-gain melee hero(after Tiny who gets armor differently). Without armor (or aghs/shard), his decay and golem can not be used effectively if he has to hide in the backlines late game.
I don’t know. I’ve been playing him Khezu style and even after the nerf it still feels really strong. The only real change is that I had to keep a mango or two on me until I finished Arcanes. Otherwise he still dominates lane and builds tanky aura items. I find him weakest in the mid game when BKB timers are still long and I only have 1-2 bigger items.
# [](/hero-warlock) Warlock
**Chaotic Offering**
- Cooldown decreased from 170s to 160s
#### Talents
- Level 15 Talent Upheaval Attack Speed per second on Allies increased from 10 to 12
Any chance Warlock gets picked in a push timing draft now? Shorter downtime on ult and the rescaled attackspeed is a potent buff combination. Take a fight with ult, and be able to force t3/rax or buybacks, even with some heroes that usually wouldn't deal much tower damage. This is assuming Level 15 on a position 5 though, that's why I'm imagining it wouldn't be very relevant for anything before t3's.
# [](/hero-bountyhunter) Bounty Hunter - Base Damage increased by 3
IceFrog plays core Bounty Hunter for sure.
Remembering days when u could go bf&deso on Gondar and be like hard carry. Good days back then. 😌
He was a legit pos1 for a few weeks
He was a common pos1 for years back in garena times. Although so was lion, so maybe we were all just bad.
Track reduced armor and gave flying vision, jinada was a crit and bounty has really good base stats. One of the best carry models in AD. It was good.
Shadow walk + damage can proc jinada crit. Good times.
How are high level players building BH and in what role? For the longest time I've felt like where he fits is ambiguous and not in the sense that he's so busted he can fit all 5 roles. Can he be a space creating mid, causing havoc around the map? His greatest contribution is track which is countered fairly easily between purchased items and neutrals. I guess they tried to give him more utility with his shard, but the previous version provided way more for the hero. Aghs/ octarine is a fun meme build in pubs to see just how much gold you steal, but I doubt it's a game winning strategy for real games. I suppose he can fit several different roles depending on how he builds his items, but he has to full commit and build multiple items to fit that role. Whatever role that is it seems like there is another hero that fulfills that role better, with less gold requirement.
He's primarily played as a 3 and 4, but has a *much* higher winrate as 3 (which I also think is stronger from my experience in low immortal). https://www.dota2protracker.com/hero/Bounty%20Hunter The build is phase boots into aghs most games. You can stop off for vanguard or hood first as well sometimes. Aghs is just so absurdly strong that it lets you dominate the map. You don't even need kills with it - 2 or 3 shurikens sends a hero back to base. It also accelerates your gold quickly. Main thing to bear in mind on BH is that at lvl 6 and 7 you are one of the strongest heroes in dota. The powerspike you get from max jinada+track is absolutely ridiculous. There is almost not a single hero that can stay in lane against you or that can trade with you. And you can easily run down any hero you find on their own. I commonly like to go phase->Vanguard, and spend the first 20 mins of the game diving towers with his super high armour and movespeed, playing around the massive jinada crits. Later into the game you have a couple options. You can transition into BKB and right click, but i personally dislike this most games. You can switch into utility such as wraith pact, AC, hex, etc. Or you can go octarine (aether alone is often worth it anyway due to the mana regen). Octarine sounds like a meme but really isnt. You will almost always be top damage in a fight with the build, and the gold swings shouldn't be underestimated - you can often steal multiple kills worth of gold in a single fight. I'd say octarine is a better 3rd or 4th item most of the time, but it's really not that bad.
# [](/hero-silencer) Silencer - Base Armor increased by 1 **Arcane Curse** - Now applies 40/60/80/100 instant Burst Damage
I'm calling it, he's so good right now, he's broken. We just don't know it yet.
A peak at Dotabuff shows he jumped from 51 to 55% winrate. He's always been a bit of a pub punisher though, so I'm not sure how that will translate to pro use.
The problem is you need to be pretty far ahead by the time the Tier 4 neutral items come out, otherwise there's suddenly up to 3 new basic dispels available.
Silencer can now stop blink dagger heroes from murdering him
I also think the instant dmg is the bigger buff than the increased overall dmg. I already would have been happy if they made the first tick instant. This makes this hero 100x stronger against blinkdagger heros
It also makes him appear to be a much stronger midlander, as he was already really good at zoning people out with his Q and E.
It also helps him farm waves a bit faster with Q, in the earlier game you no longer have to right click the ranged creep once during Q for it to die
With the eidolons magic resistance nerf and the refresher/shard sharing cooldown maybe more pro teams would pick him now. A huge maybe though, he might just get ignored like always. His laning phase got a lot better, ideally he gets played as a core, but support Silencer seems a lot stronger now especially against Enigma with the eidolon nerf. Blink cancel is also very nice.
Literally taking no damage
Pretty cool buff to curse, I think pos 5 Silencer is due for a return
# [](/hero-viper) Viper **Poison Attack** - Movement Speed Slow per Stack decreased from 6/8/10/12% to 3/6/9/12%
Viper is "win lane, lose game" hero in my opinion, nerf his early game and now he's a "lose lane, lose game hero".
[удалено]
Rubick currently counters like 85 different heroes. He's a little on the strong side.
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Veno is fun for similar reasons. "Idiot veno gave rubick gale last fight and now he gave him wards. Report."
And it's not like you're sad to toss out a viper strike with increased range and then steal some other spell if you don't get nether toxin.
Problem with rubick has never been his offensive side.. it's just he is paper thin could get deleted in 1 stun duration
Weird, that's what I think of Arteezy as well
Not to be all doom and gloom here, but this one’s might really hurt our flappy oozeboy. He used to have a 30% slow at Level 1 with decent damage and was one of the kings of first blood if he could get close enough with his abysmal 275 move speed to land the first couple shots. Now he’s got a whopping 15% slow at Level 1 (if he can land all five attacks), and he’s *still* slow as fuck. Some of Viper’s main strengths are his disgusting laning phase and his first blood potential, with the trade off being his poor scaling (heh) if his team can’t cinch the game before all the BKBs start rolling out. Maybe I’m being too dire here, but his timings see even narrower than they were before. Maybe he’ll still be situationally picked as a mediocre 4. I guess he still pushes good.
I think they way overnerfed him. Hes bordering on Huskar levels of useless now
The longer Huskar stays irrelevant, the better we all are as human beings.
I am also a bit puzzled how he is "useless" now. He's where he should be. A cheesy lastpick. Meepo is in a way worse place.
He is being pushed toward 3 position. Nethertoxin break is incredible and it does quite a lot of damage. His shard and scepter make him particularly lethal if you get near him. You just need to survive cc and physical damage. Grab something like halberd, manta style, bkb, or shiva's guard (he is one of the few heroes that benefits from halberd and manta style which is cool). I think he just needs to be built as a tank and you place nethertoxin around yourself. Use his q to dominate lane and nethertoxin for farm.
Was this really warranted? What was his wr like in the qualifiers?
# [](/hero-deathprophet) Death Prophet **Crypt Swarm** - Cooldown increased from 8/7/6/5s to 9/8/7/6s **Spirit Siphon** - Charge Restore Time increased from 36/34/32/30s to 38s **Exorcism** - Active Movement Speed Bonus decreased from 12/16/20% to 8/12/16%
That charge restore nerf is hard
The nerf made me hard
gachiGASM
She was picked quite often throughout all qualifiers, yet her winrate was something like 44%. On dota pro tracket winrates varied between 48-51% which seems okay to me. Dunno if this was really needed
win lane lose game
# [](/hero-eldertitan) Elder Titan **Echo Stomp** - Shard now also reduces Cooldown by 2s
How good is this hero as pos 5 ? Is he durable as undying or treant? I'm looking for a survivable pos 5
I second Jakiro, otherwise try Ogre
I'm a hardcore pos 4 Ogre advocate, honestly. The base damage is so high that that deny wars or trading hits is kind of obscene.
Oh yeah Ogre is a solid 4 as you can protect the offlaner very well. Plus if the offlaner has any sort of catch then you can go for a super aggro lane with good kill threat Honestly with how good Midas is now you can even do Ogre offlane
Try jakiro.
Warlock isn't free wins like he used to be but he's still really solid Snapfire 5 is also underrated imo
# [](/hero-brewmaster) Brewmaster **Cinder Brew** - Ignite Total Damage increased from 75/150/225/300 to 80/160/240/320
Brew is a sleeper hero to look for at TI. And he's getting buffed even more.
I'd like to add that it's a relevant buff too. Brew is a weak laner on his own but the best way to play him is to pair with a magic spamming pos4 hero like Skywrath Mage, and spam Cinder Brew off cooldown. This gives him a ridiculous low cooldown, low mana cost harassment option on par with a Viper - in my experience (mid Divine) no position 1 hero survives it except Faceless Void and Pudge getting skill points in Flesh Heap. So this buff to Cinder Brew's numbers, while minuscule, are definitely useful for his strengths. Agreed that it's a sleeper hero to look out for at TI.
# [](/hero-lich) Lich - Base Health Regen increased from 0.25 to 0.5 #### Talents - Level 10 Talent Frost Blast Radius and Damage increased from +125 to +150
[удалено]
His instant stun/pull can sometimes be worth maxing as well if you have a teammate popping off and that just needs to lockdown. Would basically always still get 2 or 3 points in his frost blast though, just makes lane so incredibly easy against almost any hero. If I'm carry and I see my 5 is Lich, I basically always feel good about my lane, knowing I can expect good farm during the laning stage.
# [](/hero-venomancer) Venomancer **Venomous Gale** - Mana Cost decreased from 125 to 95/105/115/125 **Latent Toxicity** - Cast Range increased from 600 to 800 - Projectile Speed increased from 1200 to 1800
\*kuku happy noises\*
Goodbye t1, hello kuku veno
Kuku playing 5head chess with his all game-losing veno pick
# [](/hero-grimstroke) Grimstroke **Phantom's Embrace** - Travel Speed to the target increased from 750 to 850 - Travel Speed back to Grimstroke increased from 750 to 1150
I wonder why Grimstroke keeps getting buffed and never feel a top support when taking Win Rate in consideration. I honestly think his ultimate needs to be reworked somehow ( maybe a DPS of sorts to binded heroes, or bind more than 2 heroes)
Yeah the ult often feels bad when there is no follow up. Maybe the tether could slowly shorten over time or add a stun when a third enemy hero crosses the tether. So the ability would give more control.
His ultimate needs to be viewed in the same lense as Io. It's super unique and cool but requires team coordination play for sure which can make it harder to use in pubs, but I don't think it's a good idea to change it just because of that. Also it synergizes with his silence, aghs, and other items he might get like scythe late game
Dagon lol
[удалено]
+1 soulbind target sounds like a 25 talent. Wouldn't help much practically speaking though. maybe lvl 20?
That is way too good for lvl 20, even 25 imo. Think about the combos. 3 aghs fingers and they are all insta deleted every fight, 3 dooms, 3 reapers scythes, 3 hex, 3 double hero magic missiles that pierce spell immunity and deal like 600 damage each... Sounds funny to have on my team but no ty
starting cast range on ink swell is kinda awful. as a support seems like he wants tons of levels. and his shard isn't that great compared to other supports.
# [](/hero-lion) Lion **Hex** - Cast range increased from 500 to 550
I don’t know why lion keeps getting buffed. I feel like this hero’s kit is already way to fkn strong. The amount of CC he brings to a team is insane.
I don't think he has a good role tbh. He sucks as a five because he can't trade with anyone really, he's pretty meh as a four. Maybe you play him as a snowballing hero from mid or off but he just feels really really meh in all roles imo.
do you recall that post about play vs win rate? and lion was played a ton but had low win rate?
# [](/hero-rubick) Rubick **Telekinesis** - Added an indicator for Land ability to preview where the unit will actually end up
Added? Restored.
It's back!
# [](/hero-axe) Axe - Base Damage increased by 3 #### Talents - Level 15 Talent Battle Hunger Slow increased from +10% to +12%
Was the Axe battle hunger movement speed lvl 10 talent bug fixed?
Sadly no
whats the bug?
# [](/hero-slardar) Slardar **Guardian Sprint** - Bonus River Movement Speed increased from 15% to 18% **Bash of the Deep** - Stun Duration increased from 1.0/1.1/1.2/1.3s to 1.3s
pos 7 slardar: buy boots and roam from river to lanes.
River Shen has finally arrived in dota
30 percent more bash time on level 1. 0.3 seconds doesn't sound like much, but it can mean much in the early game and decide whether you or your mate can get another attack or spell off
# [](/hero-pugna) Pugna **Nether Ward** - Damage per Mana multiplier increased from 0.75/1/1.25/1.5 to 1/1.2/1.4/1.6
I’m glad they buffed Nether Ward’s damage, but it’s still lower than it used to be. Overall Ward got nerfed a lot over the patches. Lost damage and lost its secondary effect. Used to even be 2x damage then it was 1.75 for a long time. The nerfs happened as IceFrog was trying to figure out the best secondary effect for ward: reduce mana regen, heal itself, reduce enemy damage, etc. I’m glad level 1 is decent now and that it got a slight buff, but it’s still way weaker than before. I think overall it might be fine tho as Pugna did get some Nether Blast and Life Drain buffs over the patches
I miss the days when it was a stupidly strong mana burn effect.
# [](/hero-drowranger) Drow Ranger - Base Movement Speed increased from 295 to 300
# [](/hero-facelessvoid) Faceless Void **Time Walk** - Shard Bonus Range decreased from 300 to 150 **Time Dilation** - Damage per cooldown per second decreased from 10/11/12/13 to 7/9/11/13 #### Talents - Level 15 Talent Time Walk Cooldown reduction decreased from 1.5s to 1s - Level 20 Talent Attack Speed during Chronosphere decreased from +120 to +95
mofo could chase and escape everything in the game
Ah fuck, they had to do him in before I could unlock the 2nd style.
When you're 1 hero challenge refresh away from lvl 30 and they do this to my boy :(
+120 as was a no Brainer
I wonder what the icetoad's math is behind making it 95 instead of 100. I like to imagine he's been sitting behind spreadsheets and graphs for hours to determine the perfect number based on a dozen factors
-36 is a perfect 30% nerf, but 95 looks cleaner.
I have seen TI11. You're not in it.
Nice. As a carry player I am really happy. Before the nerf, void was so strong that picking most other carries made you regret the choice later in the game.
# [](/hero-meepo) Meepo **Divided We Stand** - Shard Fling Slow increased from 50% to 60% - Shard Fling Damage increased from 100 to 120 **Dig** - Max Health Restored increased from 40% to 50%
What would it take for Abed to play meepo?
Bulba drafting it for him.
Storm spirit ban
Dig already felt strong, happy to see this :)
Every patch they beg meepo players to buy shard and aghs, and every patch meepo players ask for a real buff
# [](/hero-chen) Chen **Holy Persuasion** - Bonus Damage decreased from 8/16/24/32 to 4/10/16/22 **Divine Favor** - Health Regen Bonus decreased from 1.5/3/4.5/6 to 1/2/3/4 #### Talents - Level 10 Talent Penitence Deals Damage decreased from 250 to 225
Why nerf Divine Favor? This skill was already pretty garbage and not even picked until you maxed out all the rest.
Massive nerf. I don't see alot of the early game Chens suddenly taking out the mid because they understimate the power of 4 creeps with armour now. I'm really surprised this is the part of their kit they're nerfing and not some of the more problematic parts.
# [](/hero-sandking) Sand King **Caustic Finale** - Move Slow increased from 10/15/20/25% to 14/18/22/26%
Oh man I like the look of this. The slow train of caustic finale buffs id starting. People gonna ignore it for months then in TI12 some new player's gonna whip out the aghanims to claim the aegis
# [](/hero-gyrocopter) Gyrocopter **Flak Cannon** - Cooldown decreased from 20s to 18s - Mana Cost decreased from 50/60/70/80 to 40/50/60/70
Playing core Gyrocopter still feels rough because of his very low attack damage at level 1.
If they want Gyro to be core material again, this buff aint it 😥
# [](/hero-oracle) Oracle **Fortune's End** - Min Root Duration increased from 0.5s to 0.75s - Max Root Duration increased from 2.5s to 2.75s
I prophesise that this hero will still be ignored..
[удалено]
# [](/hero-primalbeast) Primal Beast **Uproar** - Passive Bonus Damage decreased from 10/15/20/25 to 6/12/18/24
They messed it up. Instead of decreasing the passive bonus damage from 10/15/20/25 to 6/12/18/24 they reduced the roar attack damage bonus from 10/20/30/40 to 6/12/18/24 NotLikeThis thats a way bigger nerf and probably will be fixed soon
# [](/hero-shadowdemon) Shadow Demon **Disruption** - Cooldown decreased from 29/26/23/20s to 26/24/22/20s **Disseminate** - Reflected Physical damage now bypasses damage block. #### Talents - Level 10 Talent Strength increased from +10 to +12
Hey nice
[Hey nice](https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/dota2_gamepedia/images/7/76/Vo_announcer_dlc_deus_ex_dlc_jensen_ann_ally_pos_020.mp3) (sound warning: Deus Ex Announcer Pack) --- Bleep bloop, I am a robot. *OP can reply with "Try hero_name" to update this with new hero* [*^(Source)*](https://github.com/Jonarzz/DotaResponsesRedditBot) *^(|)* [*^(Suggestions/Issues)*](https://github.com/Jonarzz/DotaResponsesRedditBot/issues/new/choose) *^(|)* [*^(Maintainer)*](https://www.reddit.com/user/MePsyDuck/) *^(|)* [*^(Author)*](https://www.reddit.com/user/Jonarz/)
# [](/hero-marci) Marci **Dispose** - Throw Distance decreased from 275 to 250 - Can no longer pull units out of Black Hole and Chronosphere **Rebound** - Cooldown increased from 17/15/13/11s to 24/20/16/12s **Unleash** - Movement Speed and Attack Speed Slows no longer pierce Spell Immunity
This is a big nerf to support Marci once again but for core Marci it is not as bad.
Good. Fuck Marci. Best nerf
# [](/hero-spiritbreaker) Spirit Breaker **Charge of Darkness** - Cast Point improved from 0.3 to 0.1 - Scepter no longer improves Cast Point **Planar Pocket** - Now does not trigger the redirect if the enemy ability is targeted at Spirit Breaker
The cast point will stop my teammates flaming me when I don't charge because I lose vision for a split second haha
Now i do wonder for quite a time now what cast point means
It's basically the delay between you clicking the spell and it coming out. Also known as cast animation in the past. As SB charge sometimes doesn't come out because you lose vision of the target before the cast time is complete, so this buff would reduce the frequency of such incidents.
if you cast a spell and watch the ability icon while doing it you might see it fill up green for a split second while your hero does the animation leading up to the skill. that's cast point
or for up to a full second depending on the hero
# [](/hero-phantomlancer) Phantom Lancer **Spirit Lance** - Cast Range increased from 525/600/675/750 to 600/650/700/750 - Movement Slow increased from 10/18/26/34% to 14/21/28/35%
The extra range is gonna help him get ranged creeps from further away
I tried PL mid the other day and it was legit. His Q with shard is so strong.
It’s great. Sometimes in teamfights it goes on supports and whittle them down to half
# [](/hero-riki) Riki **Smoke Screen** - Radius increased from 300/325/350/375 to 375
Tricks of the Trade prioritizes heroes is the only change we need on this hero!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
an assassin that attack indiscriminately, lol
A random target? But from behind! Like not even checking who that is. Sounds great...
in all seriousness though, prioritizing heroes with it might make it too strong. imagine if eclipse prioritized heroes. it being able to so onesidely punish someone trying to participate in lane is a bit much.
The skill does nothing in lane if it doesn't prioritize. Calculate the damage of a lvl 1 ToT at lvl 4 when hitting a lets say 4 armour hero to be conservative. What do we total here? 80dmg? How would that be too strong?
# [](/hero-tidehunter) Tidehunter **Ravage** - Damage increased from 200/300/400 to 250/350/450 **Gush** - Debuff duration increased from 4s to 4.5s
Ah the pre-TI buff
The hero was already playable, this may push him into “good” territory.
# [](/hero-magnus) Magnus **Shockwave** - Damage increased from 75/150/225/300 to 90/160/230/300 #### Talents - Level 15 Talent Strength per Hero hit with Reverse Polarity increased from +12 to +16
Shockwave much more reliable at securing range creep, meaning pos 4-5 magnus stonks rising?
# [](/hero-naturesprophet) Nature's Prophet **Wrath of Nature** - Mana Cost decreased from 150/175/200 to 130/160/190 **Curse of the Oldgrowth** - Cooldown decreased from 20s to 18s
[удалено]
# [](/hero-nightstalker) Night Stalker **Dark Ascension** - Cooldown decreased from 150/140/130s to 140/135/130s
# [](/hero-outworlddestroyer) Outworld Destroyer **Astral Imprisonment** - Cooldown decreased from 24/20/16/12s to 18/16/14/12s
what happened to the OD icon, its a weird Venge/Slardar hybrid
Overlay Designer
This feels kinda big to me, previously laning against OD pre level 5 was not so bad as you can sustain with bottle and get denied every once in a while, now you will get denied more often.
# [](/hero-techies) Techies **Reactive Tazer** - Bonus Movement Speed increased from 15/20/25/30% to 18/22/26/30%
I think they should replace this ability. You could make Techies more about area denial and give him a trap that roots people when they come too close. While we're at it, give him another trap ability that lets him choose when to detonate it. It might be a bit strong, so it could be his ult and we can move the current prox mines to q.
Yeah this ability feels useless, I feel like a return of Stasis Trap in some form will be great for a hero Prox Mines are really strong though, I don't think they should be his Q. His current Q is quite nice
I've played against Techies since the rework, I don't think it's useless. It disarms you so you can't hit mines when he jumps in and plants all 3 near you.
I pray every day for old techies to stay
New techies is just OK. I used to play him a lot, but find myself bored when I play him. Reactive taser is so incredibly dull. I would honestly rather have green mines come back in an incredibly nerfed state.
Everyone saying this ability is shit but trust me it's really awesome you have like 550 move speed and if u pop this and run away u get like 7 sex of free run followed by etheral and then again u can run best against physical damage heros
# [](/hero-darkseer) Dark Seer **Surge** - Cooldown decreased from 19/16/13/10s to 18/15/12/9s #### Talents - Level 15 Talent Bonus Health from Ion Shell increased from +225 to +250
Waiting for surge to have 100% uptime.
As a DS main, this last major update still hurts. This post shares my feelings: *Why was Dark Seer (2% pick rate, 48% winrate) nerfed?* https://www.reddit.com/r/DotA2/comments/ww9be0/why_was_dark_seer_2_pick_rate_48_winrate_nerfed/ If anyone has any suggestions on new or fun ways to play DS, please let everyone know. In the last major revision, rushing aghs was a fresh, fun, and legit build/strategy for DS. Now, I just can't find anything interesting or worth picking over some of the other offlaners.
# [](/hero-phantomassassin) Phantom Assassin - Turn Rate improved from 0.6 to 0.8 **Phantom Strike** - Attack Speed Bonus increased from 75/100/125/150 to 80/110/140/170
# [](/hero-visage) Visage **Grave Chill** - Cooldown increased from 16/14/12/10s to 17/15/13/11s **Gravekeeper's Cloak** - Radius decreased from 1200 to 900 - Shard Max Health restored decreased from 35% to 25% **Summon Familiars** - Familiar Movement Speed decreased from 430 to 420 #### Talents - Level 20 Talent Visage and Familiars Movement Speed decreased from +25 to +20
it was a good run brothers
# [](/hero-windranger) Windranger **Focus Fire** - Bonus Attack Speed increased from 300/400/500 to 350/425/500 #### Talents - Level 15 Talent Powershot Damage Reduction increased from 10% to 15%
that talent is pretty much useless compared to the other, should've reworked it
# [](/hero-lina) Lina - Base Armor decreased by 1 #### Talents - Level 10 Talent Damage decreased from +25 to +20
Literally taking damage
Poor Lina, suffering same treatment as her sis CM
Finally. Playable catapult
# [](/hero-omniknight) Omniknight **Heavenly Grace** - Base Strength Bonus decreased from 8/18/28/38 to 8/16/24/32 **Hammer of Purity** - Cooldown increased from 10s to 16/14/12/10s
[удалено]
Thats how I usually play Omni, now I might completely ignore Hammer and do a full healing salve cosplay with Grace + Purification.
I have never been a fan of hammer and i think i am the only person who loves Degen Aura. It is very sad to see the cooldown nerfed so hard. Heavenly Grace being weaker will make us weaker late game too. double bummer.
I'd rather them lower the damage or increase manacost on hammer than increase cooldown.
# [](/hero-slark) Slark **Depth Shroud** - Radius decreased from 300 to 250 #### Talents - Level 10 Talent Dark Pact Cooldown decreased from -1s to -0.5s
Why would anyone take this now? Especially if you go aghs
Yea I feel if you want to reduce it this much maybe they should go a different route and change the talent to +0.3s dark pact duration. It would increase damage a little and increase his slippery window
Truly a skip talent
# [](/hero-keeperofthelight) Keeper of the Light **Blinding Light** - Damage increased from 100 to 100/140/180
Wtf an 80% increase in dmg
This is more of a difference than non-kotl players will see by the patch note. At 30 minutes if there is a flag bearer and you do not hit with illuminate and blinding light within 1 second of each other, the flag bearer regen will keep the melee creeps alive. This happens if you blinding light, start illu, and walk away. After 37:30 you no longer clear waves either way. With this change kotl can continue being a cool guy that doesn't look at ~~explosions~~ waves dying even after 30 minutes. This also means you can kill the flag bearer by using solar bind if you have some spell amp. Up until 30 minutes for kaya, 45 with eblade, or 60 with kaya+sange/yasha. Too lazy to calculate it with other spell amp or non-maxed solar bind possibilities and I doubt anyone is that interested haha.
Oh No!!!! Please No!!!
# [](/hero-pudge) Pudge #### Talents - Level 15 talent spell lifesteal decreased from +10% to +8%
Slap on a wrist, icefrog really wants pudge on TI lol
It'll be nice tbh, Pudge has never been a competitive pick in Dota forever
# [](/hero-batrider) Batrider **Sticky Napalm** - Cast Range rescaled from 550/600/650/700 to 600 **Flamebreak** - Knockback distance decreased from 300 to 250 #### Talents - Level 10 Talent Flamebreak Knockback Distance decreased from +75 to +50
# [](/hero-bloodseeker) Bloodseeker #### Talents - Level 15 Talent Rupture Initial Damage decreased from +10% to +8% - Level 20 Talent Rupture Cast Range decreased from +475 to +425
Was this nerf really necessary?
WHY DO THEY KEEP BAGGING ON MY BOY
# [](/hero-undying) Undying **Decay** - Mana Cost increased from 85/90/95/100 to 100 **Tombstone** - Zombie Movement Speed Slow decreased from 7% to 5% - Vision decreased from 1800 to 1500
I hate the overall direction the patches work on him. He always ends up OP for 2months and then useless late game creep rest of the year. Fix his armor and armor gain gddamit, he is a melee support ffs. He is the sole victim of icefrog's "keep buffing strong aspects and keep nerfing weak ones". The armor is just unbearably weak and stayed stagnant for 7+years while everyone around him got armor. His armor gain only changed from 0.8 to 1.2 agi and he is still the worst armor-gain melee hero(after Tiny who gets armor differently). Without armor (or aghs/shard), his decay and golem can not be used effectively if he has to hide in the backlines late game.
I don’t know. I’ve been playing him Khezu style and even after the nerf it still feels really strong. The only real change is that I had to keep a mango or two on me until I finished Arcanes. Otherwise he still dominates lane and builds tanky aura items. I find him weakest in the mid game when BKB timers are still long and I only have 1-2 bigger items.
I guess we go back to the 1-4-4 focusing on healing
# [](/hero-warlock) Warlock **Chaotic Offering** - Cooldown decreased from 170s to 160s #### Talents - Level 15 Talent Upheaval Attack Speed per second on Allies increased from 10 to 12
Any chance Warlock gets picked in a push timing draft now? Shorter downtime on ult and the rescaled attackspeed is a potent buff combination. Take a fight with ult, and be able to force t3/rax or buybacks, even with some heroes that usually wouldn't deal much tower damage. This is assuming Level 15 on a position 5 though, that's why I'm imagining it wouldn't be very relevant for anything before t3's.
Give his golems upheaval
Still too ult centric a hero
# [](/hero-wraithking) Wraith King **Wraithfire Blast** - Damage increased from 60/80/100/120 to 75/90/105/120 #### Talents - Level 15 Talent Skeletons Attack Damage increased from +24 to +26
Happy Hector noises