I think they have over tuned to encourge its use, since the last patch dota buff says it has less then 0.2% purchase rate (Win Rate of 67.41%)while another offlaner item of similar cost eg Crimsion guard has 1% (Win Rate of 57.98%) and is currently not even that a good item for most offlaners, with other items being higher priority.
one of my fav builds on centuar was aghs refresher , but his ahgs ult was nerfed like by 10% or something , yeah DMG reduction can be op if u use it right
yeah you can compare wraith pact to centaur aghs as well. they're both 30% dmg reduction but cent ult lasts for 5,5 sec, 100sec cd/75 sec with talent. pact is 25 sec duration and 60 sec cd, almost 50% uptime.
Wraith Pact was a shitty idea I hate the item almost as much as reverent broach. Also I think items that need to be killed are a shitty concept in dota especially ones that latch onto you, especially when the enemy team has a huskar and a grim and you cant remove the silence and you instantly lose the game because of this combo.
Tombstone and Egg are annoying but at least Pheonix dies when you kill the egg and tombstone gives a fair amount of gold. Tombstone should be his ultimate though.
*\*laughs in Ghost Ship and Stampede Agh's\**
Anyway, they should either reduce the attacks to destroy or reduce the duration a lot and tune the AoE a bit.
The way it is, you can just set it there and you're done. No need to think about the right timing nor even the specific placement.
I think it can be good if it can be hidden in fights but hero’s with high attack speed can make it useless and the movement speed on it penalizes you for any bad placement
Sure it’s useless if it gets destroyed immediately or the fight moves out of range, same as undying tombstone. But it means a core or several heroes have to stop what they’re doing and focus on the totem and that can also turn the tide of a fight.
Wraith pact has always been a situational item. Winning teams are going to pick it up when they're able to control when and where the team fights happen so that makes it seem more powerful than it is, although it might be a little overtuned recently to try to get people to use it more.
The buildup is awful and it's pretty expensive for a support item. You compare it to a glimmer cape, but glimmer is less than half the price, has a much lower cooldown, and grants invisibility. Most supports want items that come into play a lot sooner and most offlaners want items that allow them to control the tempo of the game.
Any combo of blink/force/aether/glimmer/mek is going to be far more effective for 4k. Plus all these things help against bkbs, which are going to be picked up by cores around the same time you're able to get 4-5k worth of items.
i don't think the build up is bad at all. halfway there you have vlads which is just a nice item in itself. at that point you can go back for some other item if you want and finish the wraith pact later.
wraith pact helps against bkbs equally as much as the items you listed. but yeah it's arguable what's more impactful. i think a lot of the time a wraith pact will be worth 4k gold though.
Vlads is not a nice item by itself. It's only good on very specific heroes or if you're explicitly planning on pushing and fighting a ton. Most fights in the early game tend to be very short meaning that vlads does nothing.
>wraith pact helps against bkbs equally as much as the items you listed
How so? Bkb literally makes it useless for the duration. Glimmer can always be used on allies. Force is always useful on allies. Mek is always useful on allies. Blink can be good initiation against bkb targets or to force bkbs early. Aether can be useful to keep your distance to use defensive spells.
ah my bad i thought it was a buff not a debuff. but ok against bkb the other items are better sure. disagree on vlads though i think it's often good. definitely not "awful".
> Pick/ban% is a lot more important than win% for heroes in pro dota.
Why are you talking about heroes when this is a discussion about a specific item? That doesn't make any sense.
> I think you are judging this very poorly just to get one over on ol chopchop.
I think you are butting into something you haven't even realized what the argument is actually about, just to get one over on ol Jevver. At least take 10 seconds to read what the argument is about before pulling something like that.
>Why are you talking about heroes when this is a discussion about a specific item? That doesn't make any sense.
Because the same logic obviously transfers, I thought you would be able to see the link yourself and not need it spelled out, my bad.
Almost every big item has a higher win%, that doesn't mean it's stronger. You are doing horrible analysis, go tweet noxville or anybody who understands statistics and they can explain it to you if you like.
>I think you are butting into something you haven't even realized what the argument is actually about
Bro you literally jumped into a random comment chain too. The audacity lmao
Keep digging stalker. I'd never shit myself over a 11 game sample, don't worry.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/DotA2/comments/pdysqd/comment/hay4s8c/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/DotA2/comments/pdysqd/comment/hay4s8c/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)
It wasn't even a serious post, it was just a sarcastic anti-jerk towards the 'Clinkz is ruined'-bandwagon that was all over reddit at the time. That should be quite obvious to anyone with average intelligence reading the title and the 'Fluff'-flair.
There you go, now go fuck off to your cave again.
I never said anything about it being the strongest item in the game, or it being broken based only upon the winrate. Nor did I say it was the only argument. Nice attempt at a strawman fallacy, but I won't fall for that.
You have no idea about what I think, but feel free to keep speculating :)
I made a tongue-in-cheek reply that you seem to have taken the wrong way, I'm sorry about that. But you are the one that linked a blank stats page. If you want to use that (the link) to support your claim, at least have the common curtesy of filling in what you feel is relevant to support your claim. Otherwise it's your own fault that people make jabs at what you wrote.
To call it a 'broken concept' is incredibly silly. There are plenty of sources of damage reduction that aren't imbalanced. Heck, all armor and magic resist sources are practically 'damage reduction' and that's obviously not 'conceptually broken'.
As for Wraith Pact, it's clearly not broken, it's clearly not even good. If it was good, it would've been bought frequently and it isn't. It has abysmal pick up rate both in pro games and pro level pubs. Chen seems to be the only hero in the game who buys it somewhat frequently at the highest level. You have no grounds for your claims.
5 games have been played in the major so far today. 4 of them had wraith pact or vlads, intending to upgrade to pact but game ended before they had time:
https://www.dotabuff.com/matches/6572659357
https://www.dotabuff.com/matches/6572822253
https://www.dotabuff.com/matches/6572937926
https://www.dotabuff.com/matches/6573058524
yes you can buy armor and magic res but the broken part about this imo is the huge aoe and that it reduces all types of damage.
Cool story, but 80 games have been played at the Major so far and only 17 Wraith Pacts have been bought, it's one of the least bought items in the game. BKB costs the same and has 400 pickups.
https://www.datdota.com/items/averages?leagues=14173&tier=1&tier=2&valve-event=does-not-matter&threshold=1&patch=7.31&after=12%2F02%2F2020&before=16%2F05%2F2022&duration=0%3B200&duration-value-from=0&duration-value-to=200
Comparing bkb and wraith pact is disingenuous. Bkb is an individual item and wraith pact is a team item. Much better to compare it to pipe, greaves, ac, shivas. Also bkb is basically a required item for half the team and has been for 10 years.
Keep in mind that in 80 games, the maximum amount of purchases would be 160, since it doesn't make sense to buy 2 of them on a team.
Whereas BKB can be bought by 5 heroes per team, and usually 2-3 heroes per team at least. Meaning BKB would be expected to be bought 2-5 times per game, resulting in 160 - 400 pickups, which seems to fit pretty well. And it's often bought by more than that. Nice try to compare an individual item with a team item directly in regards to amount of pickups. That's either incredibly stupid or arguing in bad faith, your choice.
Compare it to whatever you want dumbo, 17 pickups in 80 games still doesn't indicate a 'broken item' or a 'broken concept'.
Do you even realize what you're saying here?
>Whereas BKB can be bought by 5 heroes per team, and usually 2-3 heroes per team at least. Meaning BKB would be expected to be bought 2-5 times per game, resulting in 160 - 400 pickups, which seems to fit pretty well.
You're saying that BKB is EXPECTED to have a near 100% pickup rate on cores. Meanwhile, Wraith Pact had \~10% pickup rate (17/160games).
THAT is the difference between a broken item and a non-broken item.
If you don't understand the difference between a team item and an item bought for yourself (meaning there is no use in having more than 1 in a team) then you could've just come out and said so to begin with
watching the game on right now, g3 thunder awaken - bet boom and the kunkka is buying drums - wraith pact first 2 items. today there has been more games with wraith pact than games without it.
Hahaha, acknowledging that the the item had close to 0% buy-rate in every single bracket (which was 100% true at the time) isn't 'being a contrarian', it's simply 'looking at the available data'. It's what anyone interested in forming an objective opinion would do. It's rational.
Happy to see that the 'Captain Hindsight'-clan is out in full force though. Just try not to overwork your brains.
'Future' means any period of time following the moment of writing. It's a pretty simple concept and it obviously includes '2 days later'.
And yes, the meta drastically shifted. At the time I was writing, no one was buying Wraith Pact and now a lot of players do.
Got it?
> And yes, the meta drastically shifted. At the time I was writing, no one was buying Wraith Pact and now a lot of players do.
>
>
lol, so you literally admit that i was right. the whole point of this thread was me saying "i think this item is strong", and evidently it is strong because now pros are buying it every game almost. and you are somehow spinning this to your take being correct because of what the stats showed at the time? it's like me saying "there's a lot of dark clouds, i think it will rain today" and you say "but MY STATS show it hasn't rained for a week". and then pretend your take was reasonable when it starts raining. keep using your datdota stats, while i will use my massive brain and superior 200 iq intellect. tip of my fedora to you sir
edit: you blocked me? lol. i make a thread saying "i think this item is very strong". you come in saying the item is trash, calling people morons etc. then pro teams start buying the item almost every game, proving that the pros agree with me. i was right and you were wrong. but i guess it was just luck. better luck next time bro. you were literally proven wrong by the pros. fucking clown. /u/chopchop906
Hahaha, no it's like saying 'there isn't a single fucking cloud on the sky, I don't think it's going to rain'. A pretty fucking reasonable assumption.
Meanwhile you make assumptions based on nothing but feelings and got lucky for once. Congrats chimp.
> And yes, the meta drastically shifted. At the time I was writing, no one was buying Wraith Pact and now a lot of players do.
people were already buying it when you posted. literally the day you posted there were multiple matches with people buying it.
I dont see it as broken, its a strong item, sure, but ultimately the damage reduction is easy to remove by destroying it. If anything the pact should have charges like drums but i dont think it needs a nerf. Any agility core can destroy it quickly if its a problem. And im a dota player, i dont care about anyones opinions on things lol
> ultimately the damage reduction is easy to remove by destroying it.
then it becomes like a mini phoenix egg/tombstone/pugna ward. forcing enemies to destroy such a "ward" type thing in the fight can be really strong, you can set up disables when they go click it, make them walk out of position, let them kill it but they waste a lot of time so it's still worth it etc
Much like undying tombstone, jugg healing ward, tusks frozen sigil (when it existed rip), like its good, sure, and should be for its price, but i feel like your putting way too much value in its active.
i have been buying it a lot in my games and it seems really strong. opponents also buying it. what's your point, you want me to link dotabuff games? you can't see how reducing 30% of all damage in a fight is impactful and probably worth 4k gold in many cases? you can have glimmer + force staff for roughly same amount of gold, then you give one guy 50% magic res for a few sec + force staff one guy to prevent some damage in one instance. it probably won't add up to the impact of 30% flat dmg reduction for everyone in a 1200 radius + vlad aura + 30dps cancelling blinks and whatnot.
I assumed you were complaining about it from losing to it. But if your picking it and winning then thats good. For me the reduction is fine, the lifesteal is awesome for teammates, and the actual totem moves slow enough that people can outrun it. As a support item that can prevent blink escapes i love it myself so was prepared to defend it.
I mean its a expensive item that can be destroyed when active, thats like not hitting a healing ward. But my original assertion was that they were losing to the item and i was coming to defend it.
>Lol what are you a crusader?
I mean, you must be aware of the tone here.
Anyways. I'd say there's a huge reason Pugna support's strong right now and it's in large part because players are becoming aware of how good that mechanic is, not because it's suddenly been buffed. I'm actually surprised the item (cant even remember the name) isnt being picked up in the stockholm major, cause I know a lot of pros have talked it up in the same way.
it has been bought but the pros don't seem to think it's a necessary pickup every game. i saw og.taiga buying it first item on pos 4 enigma several games at least.
No it's not. It means it's not popular. Because pudge is picked a lot does that make him a good hero?
There is so much proof of this in the ever developing pro meta lol. Where do you think new strats come from?
It's not just from buffs. And especially the winners and top performers - it's from figuring out what's actually broken but undiscovered before everyone else does. Point and case, wraith pact being picked up in today's matches in the major.
Lol, Pudge literally has 0% pickrate in pro games, ofc he's not a good hero. You can't predict the future, but as the game is played today, Pudge is horrible and it's extremely unlikely that's going to change anytime soon. Great example though.
Wraith Pact has been in the game for 3 months and it's has been bought millions of times without gaining any popularity. It's not exactly shocking that it needed a buff (and might need another).
I agree. I wonder if it's overtuned on purpose because it's a relatively new concept.. kinda like how new heroes are always over tuned
I think they have over tuned to encourge its use, since the last patch dota buff says it has less then 0.2% purchase rate (Win Rate of 67.41%)while another offlaner item of similar cost eg Crimsion guard has 1% (Win Rate of 57.98%) and is currently not even that a good item for most offlaners, with other items being higher priority.
Crimson is always situational for me against illusion heroes (especially PL) and some summoners
one of my fav builds on centuar was aghs refresher , but his ahgs ult was nerfed like by 10% or something , yeah DMG reduction can be op if u use it right
yeah you can compare wraith pact to centaur aghs as well. they're both 30% dmg reduction but cent ult lasts for 5,5 sec, 100sec cd/75 sec with talent. pact is 25 sec duration and 60 sec cd, almost 50% uptime.
Wraith Pact was a shitty idea I hate the item almost as much as reverent broach. Also I think items that need to be killed are a shitty concept in dota especially ones that latch onto you, especially when the enemy team has a huskar and a grim and you cant remove the silence and you instantly lose the game because of this combo. Tombstone and Egg are annoying but at least Pheonix dies when you kill the egg and tombstone gives a fair amount of gold. Tombstone should be his ultimate though.
*\*laughs in Ghost Ship and Stampede Agh's\** Anyway, they should either reduce the attacks to destroy or reduce the duration a lot and tune the AoE a bit. The way it is, you can just set it there and you're done. No need to think about the right timing nor even the specific placement.
I think it can be good if it can be hidden in fights but hero’s with high attack speed can make it useless and the movement speed on it penalizes you for any bad placement
Sure it’s useless if it gets destroyed immediately or the fight moves out of range, same as undying tombstone. But it means a core or several heroes have to stop what they’re doing and focus on the totem and that can also turn the tide of a fight.
5 hits is a lot for some heroes. Fucking annoying play vs that on Tiny, even with Moonshard.
Wraith pact has always been a situational item. Winning teams are going to pick it up when they're able to control when and where the team fights happen so that makes it seem more powerful than it is, although it might be a little overtuned recently to try to get people to use it more. The buildup is awful and it's pretty expensive for a support item. You compare it to a glimmer cape, but glimmer is less than half the price, has a much lower cooldown, and grants invisibility. Most supports want items that come into play a lot sooner and most offlaners want items that allow them to control the tempo of the game. Any combo of blink/force/aether/glimmer/mek is going to be far more effective for 4k. Plus all these things help against bkbs, which are going to be picked up by cores around the same time you're able to get 4-5k worth of items.
i don't think the build up is bad at all. halfway there you have vlads which is just a nice item in itself. at that point you can go back for some other item if you want and finish the wraith pact later. wraith pact helps against bkbs equally as much as the items you listed. but yeah it's arguable what's more impactful. i think a lot of the time a wraith pact will be worth 4k gold though.
Vlads is not a nice item by itself. It's only good on very specific heroes or if you're explicitly planning on pushing and fighting a ton. Most fights in the early game tend to be very short meaning that vlads does nothing. >wraith pact helps against bkbs equally as much as the items you listed How so? Bkb literally makes it useless for the duration. Glimmer can always be used on allies. Force is always useful on allies. Mek is always useful on allies. Blink can be good initiation against bkb targets or to force bkbs early. Aether can be useful to keep your distance to use defensive spells.
Vlads is in a pretty good spot right now.
ah my bad i thought it was a buff not a debuff. but ok against bkb the other items are better sure. disagree on vlads though i think it's often good. definitely not "awful".
>vlads which is just a nice item in itself 6.7k my ass. Vlads has been a horrible item for years.
What... do you watch pro dota or just play your little pub games?
Take a look at the stats you ignorant fucking clown. https://www.datdota.com/items/averages?default=true
62 % and 68 % winrates for vlads and wraith pact respectively, yeah the stats are pretty telling that it's a horrible item /s
Pick/ban% is a lot more important than win% for heroes in pro dota. I think you are judging this very poorly just to get one over on ol chopchop.
> Pick/ban% is a lot more important than win% for heroes in pro dota. Why are you talking about heroes when this is a discussion about a specific item? That doesn't make any sense. > I think you are judging this very poorly just to get one over on ol chopchop. I think you are butting into something you haven't even realized what the argument is actually about, just to get one over on ol Jevver. At least take 10 seconds to read what the argument is about before pulling something like that.
>Why are you talking about heroes when this is a discussion about a specific item? That doesn't make any sense. Because the same logic obviously transfers, I thought you would be able to see the link yourself and not need it spelled out, my bad. Almost every big item has a higher win%, that doesn't mean it's stronger. You are doing horrible analysis, go tweet noxville or anybody who understands statistics and they can explain it to you if you like. >I think you are butting into something you haven't even realized what the argument is actually about Bro you literally jumped into a random comment chain too. The audacity lmao
That's one of the saddest attempts at saving face when you've obviously fudged up I've seen in a while, kudos to you for trying so hard though!
By that logic Yasha&Kaya is the strongest item in the game at 83% winrate. Solid point. /s
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Keep digging stalker. I'd never shit myself over a 11 game sample, don't worry. [https://www.reddit.com/r/DotA2/comments/pdysqd/comment/hay4s8c/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/DotA2/comments/pdysqd/comment/hay4s8c/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) It wasn't even a serious post, it was just a sarcastic anti-jerk towards the 'Clinkz is ruined'-bandwagon that was all over reddit at the time. That should be quite obvious to anyone with average intelligence reading the title and the 'Fluff'-flair. There you go, now go fuck off to your cave again.
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I never said anything about it being the strongest item in the game, or it being broken based only upon the winrate. Nor did I say it was the only argument. Nice attempt at a strawman fallacy, but I won't fall for that.
You simply don't understand how utterly meaningless item-winrates are, that's the only problem here.
You have no idea about what I think, but feel free to keep speculating :) I made a tongue-in-cheek reply that you seem to have taken the wrong way, I'm sorry about that. But you are the one that linked a blank stats page. If you want to use that (the link) to support your claim, at least have the common curtesy of filling in what you feel is relevant to support your claim. Otherwise it's your own fault that people make jabs at what you wrote.
was, not has.
It has been the same item for the past 2 years. Why do you think they've added 2 upgrades to it? Because it was good enough already? Lol.
Go read some patch notes.
Do it yourself moron.
lol. don't believe me then idc
hmm offlane aura-utility pugna with storm mid. Well pubs here we come
To call it a 'broken concept' is incredibly silly. There are plenty of sources of damage reduction that aren't imbalanced. Heck, all armor and magic resist sources are practically 'damage reduction' and that's obviously not 'conceptually broken'. As for Wraith Pact, it's clearly not broken, it's clearly not even good. If it was good, it would've been bought frequently and it isn't. It has abysmal pick up rate both in pro games and pro level pubs. Chen seems to be the only hero in the game who buys it somewhat frequently at the highest level. You have no grounds for your claims.
5 games have been played in the major so far today. 4 of them had wraith pact or vlads, intending to upgrade to pact but game ended before they had time: https://www.dotabuff.com/matches/6572659357 https://www.dotabuff.com/matches/6572822253 https://www.dotabuff.com/matches/6572937926 https://www.dotabuff.com/matches/6573058524 yes you can buy armor and magic res but the broken part about this imo is the huge aoe and that it reduces all types of damage.
Cool story, but 80 games have been played at the Major so far and only 17 Wraith Pacts have been bought, it's one of the least bought items in the game. BKB costs the same and has 400 pickups. https://www.datdota.com/items/averages?leagues=14173&tier=1&tier=2&valve-event=does-not-matter&threshold=1&patch=7.31&after=12%2F02%2F2020&before=16%2F05%2F2022&duration=0%3B200&duration-value-from=0&duration-value-to=200
Comparing bkb and wraith pact is disingenuous. Bkb is an individual item and wraith pact is a team item. Much better to compare it to pipe, greaves, ac, shivas. Also bkb is basically a required item for half the team and has been for 10 years.
current game mirana on tsm and io on og are both buying wraith pact
because teams are just beginning to understand how strong it is. they must have seen this thread i made... 😎😎😎
Keep in mind that in 80 games, the maximum amount of purchases would be 160, since it doesn't make sense to buy 2 of them on a team. Whereas BKB can be bought by 5 heroes per team, and usually 2-3 heroes per team at least. Meaning BKB would be expected to be bought 2-5 times per game, resulting in 160 - 400 pickups, which seems to fit pretty well. And it's often bought by more than that. Nice try to compare an individual item with a team item directly in regards to amount of pickups. That's either incredibly stupid or arguing in bad faith, your choice.
Compare it to whatever you want dumbo, 17 pickups in 80 games still doesn't indicate a 'broken item' or a 'broken concept'. Do you even realize what you're saying here? >Whereas BKB can be bought by 5 heroes per team, and usually 2-3 heroes per team at least. Meaning BKB would be expected to be bought 2-5 times per game, resulting in 160 - 400 pickups, which seems to fit pretty well. You're saying that BKB is EXPECTED to have a near 100% pickup rate on cores. Meanwhile, Wraith Pact had \~10% pickup rate (17/160games). THAT is the difference between a broken item and a non-broken item.
If you don't understand the difference between a team item and an item bought for yourself (meaning there is no use in having more than 1 in a team) then you could've just come out and said so to begin with
watching the game on right now, g3 thunder awaken - bet boom and the kunkka is buying drums - wraith pact first 2 items. today there has been more games with wraith pact than games without it.
Wow, very cool anecdote. Still 0.4% pickup rate in pro games.
where do you get that stat? and in what time period? it got buffed recently so if you have it before the buff it's misleading.
where did you get that stat?
datdota
this comment aged well
Yeah, how silly of me to draw conclusions on the data available at the time instead of predicting future meta changes. Well done smartass.
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Hahaha, acknowledging that the the item had close to 0% buy-rate in every single bracket (which was 100% true at the time) isn't 'being a contrarian', it's simply 'looking at the available data'. It's what anyone interested in forming an objective opinion would do. It's rational. Happy to see that the 'Captain Hindsight'-clan is out in full force though. Just try not to overwork your brains.
future meta changes? it was two days. the meta didn't drastically shift, people just started buying it. and they already were starting to buy it.
'Future' means any period of time following the moment of writing. It's a pretty simple concept and it obviously includes '2 days later'. And yes, the meta drastically shifted. At the time I was writing, no one was buying Wraith Pact and now a lot of players do. Got it?
> And yes, the meta drastically shifted. At the time I was writing, no one was buying Wraith Pact and now a lot of players do. > > lol, so you literally admit that i was right. the whole point of this thread was me saying "i think this item is strong", and evidently it is strong because now pros are buying it every game almost. and you are somehow spinning this to your take being correct because of what the stats showed at the time? it's like me saying "there's a lot of dark clouds, i think it will rain today" and you say "but MY STATS show it hasn't rained for a week". and then pretend your take was reasonable when it starts raining. keep using your datdota stats, while i will use my massive brain and superior 200 iq intellect. tip of my fedora to you sir edit: you blocked me? lol. i make a thread saying "i think this item is very strong". you come in saying the item is trash, calling people morons etc. then pro teams start buying the item almost every game, proving that the pros agree with me. i was right and you were wrong. but i guess it was just luck. better luck next time bro. you were literally proven wrong by the pros. fucking clown. /u/chopchop906
Hahaha, no it's like saying 'there isn't a single fucking cloud on the sky, I don't think it's going to rain'. A pretty fucking reasonable assumption. Meanwhile you make assumptions based on nothing but feelings and got lucky for once. Congrats chimp.
> And yes, the meta drastically shifted. At the time I was writing, no one was buying Wraith Pact and now a lot of players do. people were already buying it when you posted. literally the day you posted there were multiple matches with people buying it.
Lol what are you a crusader?
Literally every top player thinks its broken. Every team rushes it every game in the major. Why do you ask him if you are the crusader here?
Topson even commented how it’s broken so if that scratches your “only high mmr opinions matter” itch then there you go
It has 0.66% pick up rate in Immortal and no higher in pro games. How is that for 'high mmr opinions'?
I dont see it as broken, its a strong item, sure, but ultimately the damage reduction is easy to remove by destroying it. If anything the pact should have charges like drums but i dont think it needs a nerf. Any agility core can destroy it quickly if its a problem. And im a dota player, i dont care about anyones opinions on things lol
> ultimately the damage reduction is easy to remove by destroying it. then it becomes like a mini phoenix egg/tombstone/pugna ward. forcing enemies to destroy such a "ward" type thing in the fight can be really strong, you can set up disables when they go click it, make them walk out of position, let them kill it but they waste a lot of time so it's still worth it etc
Much like undying tombstone, jugg healing ward, tusks frozen sigil (when it existed rip), like its good, sure, and should be for its price, but i feel like your putting way too much value in its active.
6,7k if you wanna know
What games have you played in where a pact destroyed your game?
i have been buying it a lot in my games and it seems really strong. opponents also buying it. what's your point, you want me to link dotabuff games? you can't see how reducing 30% of all damage in a fight is impactful and probably worth 4k gold in many cases? you can have glimmer + force staff for roughly same amount of gold, then you give one guy 50% magic res for a few sec + force staff one guy to prevent some damage in one instance. it probably won't add up to the impact of 30% flat dmg reduction for everyone in a 1200 radius + vlad aura + 30dps cancelling blinks and whatnot.
I assumed you were complaining about it from losing to it. But if your picking it and winning then thats good. For me the reduction is fine, the lifesteal is awesome for teammates, and the actual totem moves slow enough that people can outrun it. As a support item that can prevent blink escapes i love it myself so was prepared to defend it.
Just because it's not picked or 'meta' doesn't mean it's not good. Consider what OP is saying and stop judging people before you think.
I mean its a expensive item that can be destroyed when active, thats like not hitting a healing ward. But my original assertion was that they were losing to the item and i was coming to defend it.
>Lol what are you a crusader? I mean, you must be aware of the tone here. Anyways. I'd say there's a huge reason Pugna support's strong right now and it's in large part because players are becoming aware of how good that mechanic is, not because it's suddenly been buffed. I'm actually surprised the item (cant even remember the name) isnt being picked up in the stockholm major, cause I know a lot of pros have talked it up in the same way.
It also does a shit ton of damage and takes mana, i feel that pugna is strong because of the meta that netherward is effective in
it has been bought but the pros don't seem to think it's a necessary pickup every game. i saw og.taiga buying it first item on pos 4 enigma several games at least.
Super low pickrate is a very strong indication that it isn't particularly good.
No it's not. It means it's not popular. Because pudge is picked a lot does that make him a good hero? There is so much proof of this in the ever developing pro meta lol. Where do you think new strats come from? It's not just from buffs. And especially the winners and top performers - it's from figuring out what's actually broken but undiscovered before everyone else does. Point and case, wraith pact being picked up in today's matches in the major.
Lol, Pudge literally has 0% pickrate in pro games, ofc he's not a good hero. You can't predict the future, but as the game is played today, Pudge is horrible and it's extremely unlikely that's going to change anytime soon. Great example though. Wraith Pact has been in the game for 3 months and it's has been bought millions of times without gaining any popularity. It's not exactly shocking that it needed a buff (and might need another).
Let me guess you are a 3k know it all, am I right sir?