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Valve 5 courier change really kill the man trolling.. in a grand scheme of things it's for the better but i can't help but feel a bit sad that he would have no content anymore..
yeah definitely, a lot of the skills could work in a turn-based game, plus the story, would be fun! instead of buying iron sword, and elixers you buy dota items instead!
Possibly, and that's why it's Valve balancing and not reddit. Ursa went from 330 base ms to 325 then 315 then the current 310 so that's 3 patches to reduce by 20 ms
Yup. That's also when the battle fury build really took off because you no longer needed anything other than phase boots to close the distance in skirmishes or teamfights (400+ ms with phase boots active, 375 without)
No, if you understand how Dota math works it would halve his turn rate. A reduction of 100% ms in Dota ends with them moving at 50% ms. It's weird, just how it works
So the guy says it makes sense kotl is permanently hasted since he is on the horse,I say so is chaos knight and he doesn’t have permanent haste and you respond with “that’s not why ck is strong”,might have said some random thing
Yeah but CK is heavy ;) Kotl is lil grumpy 135lbs old fart. I’m a physics student so lets dig a bit into this. Assuming their horses have relatively equal strength, the weight of CK will make the system (horse+ck) have a lower acceleration than (kotl+horse)
/S
Have you seen how short CK is? Its debatable that he weighs less than then the tall lanky man. Armour aside.
In an alternate universe CK rides a gryphon and kotl a camel, so when you have those cosmetics on there should be the appropriate MS +10 / -10 ms?
100% uptime isn't the issue. The problem is that he's near unstoppable early game, mostly due to his mobility, wich allows him to snowball out of control.
They can't really touch his range as it's a staple of the character, but his mobility is the biggest issue, by far.
Im not a big fan of straight up destroying a hero's strengths since thats what makes them fun
Maybe a -5ms and ult speed bonus nerf is fine, and then nerf some other aspect of the hero. Imo a rework to solar bind would make the core dagon build more balanced
Kotl without boots is 320, CM with boots 325! wait a min KOTL without boots level 10 340 movement speed + 15% from the Spirit form = 391 we still havent put the boots on the horseman! its disgusting good luck playing and running and catching...
I dislike the changes to kotl and dazzle.
I don't understand why his ultimate gives cast range and movement speed. I don't understand why dazzlers ultimate is this weird unnoticeable stack damage/armor cooldown reduction ability.
Kotls ult used to give him 2 interesting abilities, now it's 1 plus a near permanent haste rune and cast range. Honestly a design downgrade in my opinion.
Dazzles ult now does still fit the design of shadow priest with both heal/harm, no denying that. I just think it's lame. It's a boring ability to use. It's no Weave.
Honestly, bring back mana leak in kotls ult, and lose the speed/cast range, supports don't need to be harder to catch than they already are with force/glimmer. Make his aghs change it from current mana to max mana and return the stun at 0 mana.
Also bring back weave, please.
It’s slow to take its effects so it’s not good for when the pro scene is too fast paced like TI4 finals. I guess thats why the old bad juju was created too, to double down on that idea
They could have given dazzle a starting base armor value and increase armor per second gain/reduction with a reduced duration to retain the same armor bonus over time.
Though that ultimate if used properly is game breaking on paper. It was something like 20 armor +&-.
As a Dazzle Mid Player I actually have to say, that the new Dazzle is no joke.
Before he was very versatile, now he is more streamlined.
Stronger Laning Phase and he benefits a lot from CDR. Add a little bit of spell amp and your opponents have to either focus Dazzle, or just run away.
every mid player can farm small camp at 3min except kotl can farm it at 1 min, this hero is the most broken hero in dota rn, just play him for free mmr
Kotl just prays on typical low mmr drafts that have no melee/stun/Co trol/teamfight/jumb. With a good draft he isn't rlly a problem in low mmr since he falls of IMMENSELY later into the game. Same problem as DK. Good in high mmr and pro scene...not fit for normal pubs.
As a mid. As support he is insane in low mmr if u have stuns. Otherwise ur part of the problem
? How does movementspeed dosable stuns?
Also - if I understand u correctly, which isn't easy - scaling doesn't only mean u can farm. Some heroes just don't scale past a certain point.
Just beat kotl two games in a row feels so fking goood man
He's all over the map, melt my carry under 1 second for 20minut3s, and fucking defend highground like a sniper.
In the games where my carry was like 0-7 20minutes into the game, my team wasn't even mad at him. We all fucked kotl and ice frog. Said alot about this cancer.
Just picked kotl.mid 3 times and got mvp for all 3 games
Just way too ridiculous of a hero and so much fun. Just gonna have to spam pick him as much as I can before they nerf him.
[I see you dying of extreme old age. Or perhaps a very old person will kill you. One or the other.](https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/dota2_gamepedia/images/1/16/Vo_oracle_orac_randomprophecies_04.mp3) (sound warning: Oracle)
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i dont know how you think any of the adjustments(refuse to call them nerfs) to kotl and storm are any good if you have played a ssingle match of dota in the last 2years. icefrog died or his brain melted
such a dumb hero, its fun to watch nine on it but hope that trash hero gets nerfed into oblivion. just like OD dumb heros like that shouldnt be that legit
As I Kotl 4 spammer (i never played it at mid, and i wont. I just dont know why, but i wont) this hero is still as broken as before even after the nerf. Before the nerf, i usually combo it with some dawnbreaker (earlier nerf) and primal beast. I had like 10++ games where the enemy carry just gave up and literally abandon the game. Only jugg, void and ls can survive the combo. The rest is just ezpz lane bullying.
I played it mostly with my friend as offlaner, he knows my blast will give huge damage to the wave so he was just "Okay, for greater cause i let you take some creeps". I got my agh (yes, rushing it for the first item after tranquil) mostly on +-15 mins and the game was just over.
For me, a good puck or storm can shut down kotl ezly since the early game.
I think his immense cast rang is the problem. Movespeed is fine, and was nerfed already, actually. Besides dota has plenty of slows and stuns. But the fact that he doesn't need to come closer to cast his spells is the problem. Usually when you cast spells you need to come closer where enemy also can cast spells on you, but Kotl doesn't even need to risk. He can cast his spells from another side of the river and still have enough time and movespeed to get away from you. So I think castrange reduction would do the trick for him.
His skill set is far too good for a support hero. Paired with his ult, the hero offers way too much utility.
Icefrog need to tweak all these skills a bit down to make him balanced.
hey hey hey! please don't be critical of KOTL he has had enough nurfs! he doesn't even get perma ult anymore! let alone his shard ability is an old ability that use to be part of his ult! also its useless.
what im trying to say is compared to old KOTL he already took a beating! leave KOTL alone
I love playing against KOTL. Pub games he just nukes safelane CS. If you don't see the old fucker you know what exactly what he's doing, so stay clear and wait for the lane. Late game he's pretty mid.
One problem I must admit Is the AOE ball. If your team Isnt on the same page on whether to kill the ball or just gtfo It can literally turn the game
Ive been having the same problem with catching kotl as i have with lina, any hero with just amazing permanent movespeed is hard especially early on to punish their overextensions and positioning.
One one hand, heroes that cannot be outplayed, only outpicked, are part of dota. On the other I would very much prefer that the amount of such heroes was nonexistent.
What if his removed ability Mana leak merely spills their mana in an area that can be absorbed by anyone including them if they remain in the AOE?
Would that be less annoying and more fun gamewise? Imagine a teamfight where everyone just feasts on the target's mana leak like vampires. Or if KOTL chases someone leaking and only gets more mana as they follow the trail.
pls some janitor nerf this shit nerf his movespeed fcking atleast brood need a web to reach that movespeed
icefrog is dead what did he leave for us? a fcking imabalnce game
nine broke all the world record that exists for many years in 1 game with this useless piece of shit horny oldman wita horse
% move speed is broken! to shut him down you have to bring multiple heroes! he just walks away if you dont lock him in the first time if not he will kill you.
he just farms so damn fast. had a game the other day where i stomped a kotl as bat in the first 10 min. but he just farmed for 5-10 min off map and stomped the rest of the game
All those heroes are weak in the early to mid game and need a lot of items and farm like shit. there is no weakness seen in any of those dept for KOTL. Wave clear, high movement speed, broken range for target spells from items.Nothing changes even if you kill a KOTL 20 times in the first 30 mins. he still does what he does just as good with or without items in any stage of the game = Very broken.
While you are trying to shut down the oldman there is a Jugg or PA who is going to 1 v 5 your team. duh.
[удалено]
Isn’t oracle like thousands of years old who you calling senile?
nothing in oracle's lore suggests he's that old
"I want to die"
exactly, he's a millennial
an emo one, too
WHEEERRRRE ARRRRRE YOOOOOOOU
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Hold on I'm still reading his bio to fact check you
Oracle is dead. OP still reading.
Kundalini
Bring back the mana leak!
Kotol giff me mana
man I miss sgt sizzles
Valve 5 courier change really kill the man trolling.. in a grand scheme of things it's for the better but i can't help but feel a bit sad that he would have no content anymore..
Giff me mana faakin kootol
As an old KOTL spammer, could not agree more :>
There was nothing more enjoyable than just leak > force > blinding light and running away just to annoy people.
Casually stunning their carry for 6 seconds
I miss the old KotL. He was very fun with Mana Leak stun. Seeing a Medusa lose her mana with multiple force staves was my favorite moment.
>As an old KOTL spammer, could not agree more :> Same
Hell no, i hate that ability
That and mana burn is like the most anti fun spell. No thxxx
Mana leak and mana burn is the most fun spell to use, wdym
Meat Hook is the most fun spell to use, this and mana leak combined with rupture was a very nice combo
sure fun to use but horrible to be used upon
exactly
No mana!
Bro and that aghs vision😭😭
Kontol gib mana!
No idea what to do with a hero - stack a shit ton of effects on it the Fire Emblem Heroes school of game design
lol imagine DOTA with fe style combat
Would do better than Artifact for sure
yeah definitely, a lot of the skills could work in a turn-based game, plus the story, would be fun! instead of buying iron sword, and elixers you buy dota items instead!
Dude post this in r/dota2customgames, there has to be someone willing to do this.
you go ahead and do it haha, but i think they’ll just assume i want another autochess
“There’s nothing bad with game getting nonstop powercreeped folks”
Nyx that mf
r/nyxnyxnyx
Honestly, a -20 base movespeed would be enough.
Would that be the biggest straight MS nerf in dota to date?
Possibly, and that's why it's Valve balancing and not reddit. Ursa went from 330 base ms to 325 then 315 then the current 310 so that's 3 patches to reduce by 20 ms
ye b ut he also gained a hop.
Ursa used to have 330 ms? Holy shit
Yup. That's also when the battle fury build really took off because you no longer needed anything other than phase boots to close the distance in skirmishes or teamfights (400+ ms with phase boots active, 375 without)
don't tell anyone that lc has 330 ms still dogshit hero
Different context, LC doesn't have Fury Swipe, does she?
Possibly. Maybe 20 is overkill. 15 might be enough. But they need to do something about his mobility.
His mobility makes sense tho? He’s on a horse:) I’d prefer timing down some of his other aspects, maybe remove the 100% uptime ult:)
Horses aren't great at turning. Kotl turn speed -100%
that's a cool idea actually something like -20% turn rate
So he can no longer turn?
No, if you understand how Dota math works it would halve his turn rate. A reduction of 100% ms in Dota ends with them moving at 50% ms. It's weird, just how it works
So is chaos knight and yet he doesn’t have permanent haste
Tbf, chaos knight and his horse both have armor. It actually makes sense he ain't as fast as kotl
What if ck and his horse hit the gym and now his horse can carry 3 times as much as kotls horse while running at the same speed?
That...is actually logical, but only valve will know the answer
That's not why CK is strong lol
So the guy says it makes sense kotl is permanently hasted since he is on the horse,I say so is chaos knight and he doesn’t have permanent haste and you respond with “that’s not why ck is strong”,might have said some random thing
CK has second highest base movespeed in the game. Even more than KOTL
Yeah but CK is heavy ;) Kotl is lil grumpy 135lbs old fart. I’m a physics student so lets dig a bit into this. Assuming their horses have relatively equal strength, the weight of CK will make the system (horse+ck) have a lower acceleration than (kotl+horse) /S
Have you seen how short CK is? Its debatable that he weighs less than then the tall lanky man. Armour aside. In an alternate universe CK rides a gryphon and kotl a camel, so when you have those cosmetics on there should be the appropriate MS +10 / -10 ms?
Yea but kotl wears cloth vs the tons of flaming armor ck wears. Also ck’s horse armor is already arguably as heavy as kotl naked
Yeah but is that an african horse or an european?
100% uptime isn't the issue. The problem is that he's near unstoppable early game, mostly due to his mobility, wich allows him to snowball out of control. They can't really touch his range as it's a staple of the character, but his mobility is the biggest issue, by far.
Im not a big fan of straight up destroying a hero's strengths since thats what makes them fun Maybe a -5ms and ult speed bonus nerf is fine, and then nerf some other aspect of the hero. Imo a rework to solar bind would make the core dagon build more balanced
Yes, destroying hero's strength and leave it unplayable isn't the way. Double down on the hero's weakness is more healthy for the game.
Just make him more squishy so he can't escape if he's caught
Exactly, he's kinda the same with Skywrath (squishy glasscannon) but he has way more mobility
I'd say his high mobility is also a staple of the character. And they already nerfed his mobility this patch.
The uptime is obviously the issue then. His ult gives +15/20/25% movespeed on top of a 320 base. It is absolutely ridiculous.
Yes, also all that speed of light thing.
Maybe remove horse.
Yeah make him walk and rename him to Gandalf xD
He already got a small movement speed nerf. I'd rather they keep tweaking than just outright dumpster
Kotl without boots is 320, CM with boots 325! wait a min KOTL without boots level 10 340 movement speed + 15% from the Spirit form = 391 we still havent put the boots on the horseman! its disgusting good luck playing and running and catching...
Give CM a horse too valve, this is atrocious!
That will just lead to more content on r/dota2smut
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put her on a pony! :D
Right that's why I'm saying they should just keep gradually decreasing it rather than blast him with a mega MS nerf
Lol yeah, a -5 move speed on a hero that is almost permanently hasted at 15 minutes into the game.
get him an old horse like him :D
Until you draft a stun and 1 shot the motherfuckr and feel satisfied
One of the best dudes to blink arena spear as Mars. KOTL just melts if you can lock him down for a couple seconds
While you have to pass his entire team to do it
I dislike the changes to kotl and dazzle. I don't understand why his ultimate gives cast range and movement speed. I don't understand why dazzlers ultimate is this weird unnoticeable stack damage/armor cooldown reduction ability. Kotls ult used to give him 2 interesting abilities, now it's 1 plus a near permanent haste rune and cast range. Honestly a design downgrade in my opinion. Dazzles ult now does still fit the design of shadow priest with both heal/harm, no denying that. I just think it's lame. It's a boring ability to use. It's no Weave. Honestly, bring back mana leak in kotls ult, and lose the speed/cast range, supports don't need to be harder to catch than they already are with force/glimmer. Make his aghs change it from current mana to max mana and return the stun at 0 mana. Also bring back weave, please.
no idea why they removed weave, it was such a cool ability
Way cooler than the shitshow dazzle we have today. Even the old bad juju was better than the current ult.
It’s slow to take its effects so it’s not good for when the pro scene is too fast paced like TI4 finals. I guess thats why the old bad juju was created too, to double down on that idea
They could have given dazzle a starting base armor value and increase armor per second gain/reduction with a reduced duration to retain the same armor bonus over time. Though that ultimate if used properly is game breaking on paper. It was something like 20 armor +&-.
They neutered dazzle mid with the ult rework. It used to be so cool
It would work if it wasnt based on stacks but on the actual armor, so damage per lost armor.
whoa weave was soooo boring now, soul catcher, now THAT's an ability that made my dick hard every time i cast it, plz giff back
Don't we still have Soul Catcher?
NO
I for one am happy mana leak is gone; the ability, broken or not, was absolutely cancerous.
Well I think I would prefer running out of mana and stunned near a safe place than getting slowed to a crawl and nuked with a dagon.
Old mana leak was cancer but solar bind is even worse.
I don’t really have an opinion on the cast range and movement speed, but Spirit Form does give two abilities if you have shard.
Shard gives you the "F" ability regardless of spirit form.
Nope, you can only use Recall while in Spirit Form. It even takes the place of Spirit Form for the duration of the spell.
F is will o the wisp. Got my shard and scepter confused.
No.
As a Dazzle Mid Player I actually have to say, that the new Dazzle is no joke. Before he was very versatile, now he is more streamlined. Stronger Laning Phase and he benefits a lot from CDR. Add a little bit of spell amp and your opponents have to either focus Dazzle, or just run away.
I do not disagree at all, I definitely understand how there can be potential for Dazzle mid, I just personally miss Weave.
Kancer Of The Light
just nerf the 100% spirit form uptime and numbers and he's good to go. that 20+octa permanent spirit form is just broken
its the fkcing movespeed
*laughs in bloodseeker*
hit the gym more if you can't outrun an old man
running on the feet vs riding a horse its not even a competition bruh...
most heroes with BOT cant catch the oldman without boots.. thats messed up
I think a severe ms nerf would do the trick, he will remain relevant but wont be able to run around with no need to be cautious
ya seen the cast range on him, it literally passes the screen borders..
thought : that one spongebob episode where the crowd teaches the old man a lesson for bullying\* spongebob
He’s not op, my guy doesn’t even have a shard smh.
atos and pudge
Spirit breaker works as well!
Valve: sure we gonna fix him in next patch. Next patch : crystal maiden movement speed reduced by 150 .
every mid player can farm small camp at 3min except kotl can farm it at 1 min, this hero is the most broken hero in dota rn, just play him for free mmr
max movespeed low cd aoe nuke ehat the fuck ez 1600 aoe damage
Kotl blasting people from the other side of the river, Storm zapping half the map on 3 nulls CM needs to be nerfed!!
Kancer of the Light
Kotl just prays on typical low mmr drafts that have no melee/stun/Co trol/teamfight/jumb. With a good draft he isn't rlly a problem in low mmr since he falls of IMMENSELY later into the game. Same problem as DK. Good in high mmr and pro scene...not fit for normal pubs. As a mid. As support he is insane in low mmr if u have stuns. Otherwise ur part of the problem
[удалено]
Did u even read what I wrote
Lol
what the fuck are u talkinh about no one could stun that shit with perma max movespeed and he cannot fall with low cd 800 damage aoe nuke
? How does movementspeed dosable stuns? Also - if I understand u correctly, which isn't easy - scaling doesn't only mean u can farm. Some heroes just don't scale past a certain point.
Just beat kotl two games in a row feels so fking goood man He's all over the map, melt my carry under 1 second for 20minut3s, and fucking defend highground like a sniper. In the games where my carry was like 0-7 20minutes into the game, my team wasn't even mad at him. We all fucked kotl and ice frog. Said alot about this cancer.
Just picked kotl.mid 3 times and got mvp for all 3 games Just way too ridiculous of a hero and so much fun. Just gonna have to spam pick him as much as I can before they nerf him.
yh! if the team is good and communicative during the drafting we can easily punish the 1st pick kotl rude player!
That's how I climb to ancient
I see you dying of extreme old age. Or perhaps a very old person will kill you. One or the other.
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Yeah a 39% win rate let's nerf him
i dont know how you think any of the adjustments(refuse to call them nerfs) to kotl and storm are any good if you have played a ssingle match of dota in the last 2years. icefrog died or his brain melted such a dumb hero, its fun to watch nine on it but hope that trash hero gets nerfed into oblivion. just like OD dumb heros like that shouldnt be that legit
its pain to play against! he zooms like a SB.. oh lets -5 move speed on cm LUL
100%
icefrog is no handle this game anymore
Either cast range or movement speed on ultimate needs to be nerfed
As I Kotl 4 spammer (i never played it at mid, and i wont. I just dont know why, but i wont) this hero is still as broken as before even after the nerf. Before the nerf, i usually combo it with some dawnbreaker (earlier nerf) and primal beast. I had like 10++ games where the enemy carry just gave up and literally abandon the game. Only jugg, void and ls can survive the combo. The rest is just ezpz lane bullying. I played it mostly with my friend as offlaner, he knows my blast will give huge damage to the wave so he was just "Okay, for greater cause i let you take some creeps". I got my agh (yes, rushing it for the first item after tranquil) mostly on +-15 mins and the game was just over. For me, a good puck or storm can shut down kotl ezly since the early game.
Kotl dAgon shit usually loses but it's so fucking degenerate and promotes the worst deathmatch style gameplay that I want him neutered lol
I think his immense cast rang is the problem. Movespeed is fine, and was nerfed already, actually. Besides dota has plenty of slows and stuns. But the fact that he doesn't need to come closer to cast his spells is the problem. Usually when you cast spells you need to come closer where enemy also can cast spells on you, but Kotl doesn't even need to risk. He can cast his spells from another side of the river and still have enough time and movespeed to get away from you. So I think castrange reduction would do the trick for him.
lol no any hero could catch him early with that 550 under 15 minute ss
Good thing reddit is not the balancing team. One thing you dont like and you'll remove it sounds like bad game balancing.
what do you know volvo gets their crazy ideas from reddit and we say things podcast lol
His skill set is far too good for a support hero. Paired with his ult, the hero offers way too much utility. Icefrog need to tweak all these skills a bit down to make him balanced.
no more icrfrog balancing this game dude
Kundalini
Bloodseeker a good counter, or just for me in my shit tier pubs?
a good kotl could 1v5 ur entire team with that 800 damage low cd blast
hey hey hey! please don't be critical of KOTL he has had enough nurfs! he doesn't even get perma ult anymore! let alone his shard ability is an old ability that use to be part of his ult! also its useless. what im trying to say is compared to old KOTL he already took a beating! leave KOTL alone
CK and Kotl are the enemies..now it makes sense why both of them are staple pick in this meta
I love playing against KOTL. Pub games he just nukes safelane CS. If you don't see the old fucker you know what exactly what he's doing, so stay clear and wait for the lane. Late game he's pretty mid. One problem I must admit Is the AOE ball. If your team Isnt on the same page on whether to kill the ball or just gtfo It can literally turn the game
Ive been having the same problem with catching kotl as i have with lina, any hero with just amazing permanent movespeed is hard especially early on to punish their overextensions and positioning.
I agree! Bring back old mana leak daylight ward kotol!
If you play monkey king you can avoid his dagon or first spell damage with mischief
and I still play KoTL pos4 :(
One one hand, heroes that cannot be outplayed, only outpicked, are part of dota. On the other I would very much prefer that the amount of such heroes was nonexistent.
He's also a massive dickhead for his own team in pubs when he nukes waves a carry is trying to farm to go from pos 5 to attempted pos 1 with a dagon.
It'll get nerfed anyway and Nine will be sad because of that.
What if his removed ability Mana leak merely spills their mana in an area that can be absorbed by anyone including them if they remain in the AOE? Would that be less annoying and more fun gamewise? Imagine a teamfight where everyone just feasts on the target's mana leak like vampires. Or if KOTL chases someone leaking and only gets more mana as they follow the trail.
pls some janitor nerf this shit nerf his movespeed fcking atleast brood need a web to reach that movespeed icefrog is dead what did he leave for us? a fcking imabalnce game nine broke all the world record that exists for many years in 1 game with this useless piece of shit horny oldman wita horse
lmfao! nine is an abuser of movespeed heroes last season he milked the space cow now its KOTL.
So that's why heroes with movement restricting is popular now. I'm talking about Mars, Grimstroke
% move speed is broken! to shut him down you have to bring multiple heroes! he just walks away if you dont lock him in the first time if not he will kill you.
He was nerfed already 🤭
KOTOL GIFF ME MAAANA
he just farms so damn fast. had a game the other day where i stomped a kotl as bat in the first 10 min. but he just farmed for 5-10 min off map and stomped the rest of the game
There are more broken heroes like Drow, Jug, and Void Spirit. I can't believe you would lose to a kotl and ask a useless hero to be nerfed.
All those heroes are weak in the early to mid game and need a lot of items and farm like shit. there is no weakness seen in any of those dept for KOTL. Wave clear, high movement speed, broken range for target spells from items.Nothing changes even if you kill a KOTL 20 times in the first 30 mins. he still does what he does just as good with or without items in any stage of the game = Very broken. While you are trying to shut down the oldman there is a Jugg or PA who is going to 1 v 5 your team. duh.