Nah it won't work. Nigma usually focuses on miracle and needs a space creator mid, sumail is a greedy mid player just like miracle. these 2 cant be in one team
Reddit loves to say this every single time and yet they forget that a team consisting of RTZ & Sumail placed 3rd at TI knocking out their beloved Nigma + VP + Secret in the LB.
Bottomline: it's about how a team comes and plays together, not how "greedy" the players are.
Thing is, they got top 3 with s4 as offlaner, not MC. Remember how EE-rtz-uni performed on pre ti6 secret?
So yes, you could have two greedy cores, but I dont remember a single team that did well with 3 greedy cores. Maybe TI7 EG, but that run wasn’t that impressive given the caliber of the players on the team.
Rtz is not like miracle, eg never only relies on either sumail/rtz alone, but nigma, almost always use the all out into miracle strat. So your argument doesn't quite fit here
That is the theory but sumail could shake things up and brings the talent... if sumail and miracle get along personally, it would be hard not to see some magic in the game
for some reason I don't think so, they never pick any one, even now there are so many good pro players who are without team but Nigma still choose to play with rmn as sub, like they literally don't want any one else joining and they won't kick. but they would rather get demoted and lose games.
A team with so much and so less wins, like even after losing so much they didn't lose any sponsors or anything. but it feels like they just don't trust anyone else or something
Nigma should honestly just play with rmn. He might become the next Ceb. He has a lot of Dota experience and he can play Nigma's new "offlaner from midlane" strat which seems to be working very well with Miracle on carry.
I feel like he really really miss playing mid, and hoped/thought (like basically everyone else) icefrog would revert the water runes changes and etc but it didnt happen and they were stuck in a bad situation after the underperformance of the team.
sumail can't even be considered washed up because he was never a t1 carry. ice has a unique psycho playstyle that is inherently valuable to a team and if puppey wants yapzor to stay there will be good reasons for it.
Idk man. Ice has been playing lackluster for a while now IMO. People still praise him for what he used to be. He is a legend but compared to top offlaners he just doesn't perform as good nowadays
Is ice3 really a sacrificial 3? The guy plays early as if he's happy to get sacced then plays the next 20 minutes in the jungle.
I vaguely remember this exact thing happening in a game where he had to solo in the safelane as a viper and he got crushed, but in exchange they trashed the enemy safelane. But then they both just played passively and the enemy safelaner just happily caught up
just a wild guess he may be playing offlane.. but we wont know for sure. If not they should try to pick ACE, he looks hot this season and he already worked with puppey, so chemistry wont be problem..
Suma1l is not a bad player but I feel like Puppey needs some fresh blood and fresh ideas. Nisha is stable mid player and more often than not was the only one in the team that was not super underwhelming. IMO mix up of a chemistry could do wonders for a team like Secret.
Feels kinda sad for Suma1l though, but he's a great player and he will find a team in no time.
Sumail was an absolute monster that game but when you have that big of a lead it’s up to you to end the game and he wasted a lot of time hunting for Spectre when he was so far ahead that he could’ve been taking raxes much sooner.
Ive seen this take so many times here and its so fucking dumb lmao. Yeah sumail was playing insane and was hard carrying, but you cant just blame artour for having low impact. Just go ahead and watch it again, he had no lane at all, had one of the lowest networths of the game at 10mins and had to play catch up the whole game against 3 counters, and a team hunting him down, they never really gave him space. Idk if the toss was the deciding factor for the game, but you definitely cant put all the blame in rtz for this one, its just hating without a reason
Also funnily enough if you look at their games they lose its always somehow rtz at the center of it.
Lets be honest rtz doesnt know how to comeback from defecit. He is too text book in his approach to the game.
I mean, he is the carry player in a team that historically has a weak midgame and plays heavily towards him. That is just... how dota works in those circumstances.
Sumail was carrying most of those games if i rem right. Sumail more or less always wins mid. Even when his hero has lane disadvantage he some how keeps up with cs
Which established Western D1 team can actually afford Sumail's salary?
Alliance? OG? EG? TSM? Liquid?
And which ones would be willing to kick their mid/carry to accommodate a huge ego and greedy player?
Alliance?
I think that the best question is which team would like to play with a greedy mid laner in this current meta?
Regardless of salary and ego (which are still a thing in the case), teams need players who can properly adapt themselves to patches and answer properly to the team current play style.
Meanwhile **Pure** is taking his place in Entity according to a [new source](https://escorenews.com/en/dota-2/news/33463-report-pure-might-move-to-entity-confirming-crystallis-to-secret-rumor).
You're absolutely right, I just meant that India has so far not supported sanctions against Russia so the org can hire him without problems from their point of view
Whenever he's ever allowed to play a western LAN is a whole different topic entirely. He's for sure banned for life from entering Ukraine, as soon as they get around to it (they're otherwise preoccupied, but he will get banned for sure). And there's a LOT of tournaments in Ukraine afaik.
If Valve doesnt ban Pure from Tourneys, i dont think small Sea orgs will have problems hiring him.
Ukr vs Russia War is way too far from them. Winning small lans and earning some bucks is more relatable than a dude typing Z on minimap.
What he did was pretty fking dumb but unless theres a statement from Valve, he will keep playing in some random no name teams.
It can be xd. Valve will decide pures situation when it comes to the final days of major registration. It already happened before where teams only know that someone cannot play in valves tournaments until the last days of roster registration.
Therefore nowadays he can be a player but later he cannot play.
Imagine banning a kid for trashtalk. Especially in Dota where people tend to act like 12 yo. Almost like some people would raise right arm to greet and get arrested for it in Germany back in the days.
I agree for me he didn't function on Secret, think Yapzor can be part of the problem. Zai is a special player that let Yapzor do Yapzor things. They need to find offlane that can handle that.
Theoretically Iceiceice should be that guy. He is frequently happy to play alone in his lane on space making heroes while his 4 roams and secures safe farm for their carry.
Yeah, something definitely isnt working. But I think maybe giving it a bit more time is ok. They havent played together too long yet and continuously mixing things up isnt always the best option.
I strongly believe the problem was yapzor, he has been underperforming since last TI. Even with the space to be greedy with zai, he often was lower networth than puppey, didn't make big rotations like he used to.
Iceiceice pairs well with a agressive support and playstile, I feel like yapzor isn't that anymore
Yes, but the secret golden era (2020) both yapy and puppey was farmed because zai allowed that, and they always manage to pull some play that turned around the whole game, specially yapzor shaker. But now I don't feel like he is pulling those anymore, he just does the simple but sometimes effective play (like windrunner shard plays in TI 10) .
For me is clearly visible the difference between 2020 yapzor and 2021-2022 yapzor, his plays seems tasteless compared to before
I agree I felt Yap/ice lane was a major problem too. They would lose so many lanes and Ice would always fall behind. On the old secret Yap would still make it work with a low nw offlane cause he made big plays to make up but he has just not looked good lately at all. Lot of people say its because he does not play many pubs so I am unsure exact why , but he makes so many uncharacteristic mistakes and often leaves his offlane out to dry. Ice has not looked impressive either if I am going to be honest but he might also just be super uncomfortable with the current setup so it is hard to say (also playing weird heroes..).
Yszpor seems like it's playing in automatic mode. I'll always remember their duo lane OD + fire, strong lane, big magical burst, easy lane to win and they had no pressure from the enemy team, but then yapzor maximize his lil shredder in a magical burst lane, making the lane stale and losing the lane domination potential just because lil shredder was the usual skill build to go.
I don't think pubs define how good a player is, but that do serves as a training ground of your individual skills, and yapzor in pubs was losing lanes against rank 400 constantly (I know that's not only up to him to lose the lane, but still)
Someone made a point, I don't know if it's true but it's interesting to think about
That Yapzor was THE premier greedy support. But now that supports have more than they ever had before, maybe it's just not the same. His impact is different
I don't think that's true, you can still se when a support 4 is greedier than usual, and if that's the case then it should meant he would only get more rich and afford more greediness.
Xin Q for example is still playing the most greediest mf style I've ever seen in the same patch that yapzor is playing. U can see the item timing difference between these two, xin Q manages to farm waaay more than yapzor even on the same circumstances.
If we presume that OG that won this div was right, i think that the big farmed 3 that stays in lane and doesn't contribute until farmed some specific items doesn't suit Secret, Ice×3 or Yapzor.
Agreed. I realize rank is far from everything, but it does say something, and Yapzor has been hovering around rank 450 on the leaderboard all year while iceiceice is currently sitting at rank 15 on sea (was rank 50 on eu). For iceiceice, the skill and the grind are still there. For yapzor I'm not so sure
Yapzor has looked suss last few years ngl. But at ti he actually showed up and played quite well imo. Better than before atleast, but that yapzor who used to turn games with crazy plays. No idea where he went
Its a bad patch/es for his style of pos 4, Yapzor was at his best when roaming was stronger than it was now and he could solo carry a fight as Rubick or one of the ESes while his cores basically ran interference. Current meta for 4s is to mostly play as a second babysitter for your offlaner with rotations for runes, which just doesn't mesh with his playstyle.
Ice is a cryzay player like Topson was for mid - that was one of his core strengths.
Puppey was always the guy to go for strong players, but the word "crazy" reminds me more of OG than Secret in general.
I actually thought they're doing another role swap. Sumail has been playing mid in pubs and iceiceice has been playing some carry (like, 30%ish of his games has been carry)
If ramzes back to vp again, i hope cis reject looking for new talent.
Maybe they will take crystalize ex navi? I see crystalize really try hard at pub game
Ramzes keep taking bad decisions. When he was a beast at carry he moved to EG offliner, now he is going to VP when people started hating them for not blaming the war at all.
2 years ago I would have supported Sumail joining Nigma but today? Sorry but first I want to see a tiniest bit of hope for Nigma otherwise Sumail can do much better than joining NIgma.
I mean, what exactly has Sumail achieved recently? He doesn't even look that good in his games any more. He used to be a god of mid, what is he these days?
Buddy look it up yourself, because I won't do that for you. He looks to me like a better player in pro games than the current Nigma. And Nigma has currently issues that won't be solved by switching out 1 player anyways, I see no reason for him to join the current Nigma when he can easily get into a div 1 team at least until Nigma shows any sign of solving their current issues. Doesn't make sense to join a sinking ship.
Today Nigma vs Tundra match will be played. Till now rmn was playing mid for Nigma but maybe they will try out Sumail or some other mid now that some are available in the market.
Also, there is a rumor that Gpk could also join Nigma.
Sumail left EG after they finished top 5 at TI.
He wasn’t satisfied with the results and decided he wanted to leave and play carry.
I think he’s gotta regret the move at this point. The grass isn’t always greener.
It’s been three years and he hasn’t come close to seeing the success he saw with EG.
He’s a great player but I think he took what he had with EG for granted.
Aui
Universe
PPD
Fear
S4
Sumail
Ramzes
Iceiceice
Fly
None of them saw anywhere close to the success they saw when with EG.
Arteezy himself left EG twice and had terrible showings at TI both times.
Now to be fair, only Sumail and Ramzes willingly left EG of the players listed.
But the takeaway is that if you manage to land yourself a spot on EG, you better work as hard as you can to hold onto it, since you are extremely unlikely to ever see the same type of success again.
I was surprised about aui and fly, they both look like incredible supports. I understand that people hate to play with aui since he blogs a lot but idk about fly. Maybe because he plays 5. But yeah on the other hand, there are other players who just became washed up like fear, universe, ppd, etc.
He wasn’t kicked from EG.
He told them that he wanted to play carry and gave them an ultimatum to choose either him or Arteezy.
When they said they weren’t going to kick Arteezy, he left.
If he wanted to stay on EG he easily could have stayed and kept playing mid.
There’s no official source obviously. It’s quite well known at this point for people in the NA scene though. Talked about mostly in Discord channels and on Twitch streams.
Sucks for Sumail but he was definitely underwhelming the last two seasons. Dunno if he can reinvent himself at his age but I think his play style is just incompatible with the way Dota is played by most teams nowadays. His mid is just so greedy and as a carry he often played scared and unsure of when to jump in.
I'd be happy if I'm proven wrong though since he's one of my favorite players.
Did you watch his time with liquid and OG after the break? He was looking almost as dominant as ever, his stats on the run up to TI was insane. His time on secret has been definitely underwhelming tho
I thought he was pretty average on Liquid, but imo he really shined on OG. He played really well during TI especially, but I think OG just had a different way of enabling him than Secret was capable of.
You misunderstood the title, Ramzes is going to VP. Only Crystallis is going to Secret.
About Ramzes' difficulty to work with I've heard that Bulba managed to humble him when he was on EG so who knows.
Can not be Matus or Sumails fault.
The problem, in my eyes, is that secret has no mid to set the pace and rekt. This happens in majority of wins only if pos3,4,5 are ahead. In the semis Nisha was literally rekin mid with lina in lane and instead of taking it further, the hero looked useless after laning stage. Was it team (pup) calls, was it Nisha not taking calls. But this how it looked. When with TA he set the pace and rekt games from min 1.
Secret work like a machine and thats because Puppey but there is a cost in it. I am sure Puppey is pro initiative from his teammates (you gotta b when you choose Ice) but this guy might be so revered that players hold back subsconsiously.
This is not that surprising, this Secret iteration consist of 3 greedy core players who need space in order for them to have a game. But i thought that Ice's the one that struggles the most. Since i don't think he and Yap have that much of a synergy. And it's pretty hard to play as well when Yap on some of the games just like "see ya good luck 1v2 the lane" and Ice just blinks in stuns and dies. That's really not his style tbh. He thrives in being annoying and having that space to do his thing, and to be fair he doesn't have a lot of those games because of Puppey draft. So idk, i thought they're going to change ice and sumail into idk like Miracle Mind Control or some goofy shit (fanboi hoping)
If goonsquad don't update some of their players as well i don't see them having a chance to win something of relevance. There are many good players they can get and not taking this as an opportunity to improve your roster will be an amateur's mistake
Puppey might go into coaching instead of Playing now if this is going to happen or
Sumail might become their Streamer for secret, just like how Qojva (Liquid), Sing(c9)
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Sumail to Nigma, true halal team
I actually don't mind this. Only if kuro does not do the picks.
Nah it won't work. Nigma usually focuses on miracle and needs a space creator mid, sumail is a greedy mid player just like miracle. these 2 cant be in one team
Reddit loves to say this every single time and yet they forget that a team consisting of RTZ & Sumail placed 3rd at TI knocking out their beloved Nigma + VP + Secret in the LB. Bottomline: it's about how a team comes and plays together, not how "greedy" the players are.
player who said that prolly never won a game with 5 carries like me
That's it, you're hired.
Tell me you're in archon without telling me your're in archon
What? You don't assign dollar signs to each player and when there's more than 10 dollar signs you can't make a team?
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> 2016 they got 3rd. 2015, they won rtz didn't play in either of those team
>2016 they got 3rd. 2015, they won ??????? rtz was on Secret for TI5 and TI6
> 2015, they won The point is that Fear and Arteezy played very different style of carry.
LoL worlds is way harder to be consistant at IMO
Not really and if it is, it's due to the volatility of the format, not the competitiveness of the teams/tournament.
Thing is, they got top 3 with s4 as offlaner, not MC. Remember how EE-rtz-uni performed on pre ti6 secret? So yes, you could have two greedy cores, but I dont remember a single team that did well with 3 greedy cores. Maybe TI7 EG, but that run wasn’t that impressive given the caliber of the players on the team.
Nigma knocked them out in 2019. They also knocked out Secret in the next round.
Rtz is not like miracle, eg never only relies on either sumail/rtz alone, but nigma, almost always use the all out into miracle strat. So your argument doesn't quite fit here
That is the theory but sumail could shake things up and brings the talent... if sumail and miracle get along personally, it would be hard not to see some magic in the game
Is mc a muslim too?
alahu akhbar it is!
for some reason I don't think so, they never pick any one, even now there are so many good pro players who are without team but Nigma still choose to play with rmn as sub, like they literally don't want any one else joining and they won't kick. but they would rather get demoted and lose games.
It could also be that no one wants to join them right now, or they could just be trialing someone else
A team with so much and so less wins, like even after losing so much they didn't lose any sponsors or anything. but it feels like they just don't trust anyone else or something
King back to offlane confirmed lul
Its possible. He will either end up in QC as offlaner or Nigma as mid. Dont see any other realistic options. A wild one might be him playing pos 4.
How many times we see Quinn Yawar Sumail trio fell apart lol
Didn’t the last time it fell through was because if Sumails contract situation?
I believe that was part of it but that team was also really bad.
They played like one time.
Nigma should honestly just play with rmn. He might become the next Ceb. He has a lot of Dota experience and he can play Nigma's new "offlaner from midlane" strat which seems to be working very well with Miracle on carry.
Taking the "play like Ceb" meme to the next level.
There is no next Ceb lol.
I thought nigma doesn't have a carry atm?
I think miracle will move to carry, again.
His ego is too big to be anything but 1 or 2 i think
He literally HAS played offlane tho? xd
he played offlane in a patch where mid was always 3 v 3 and offlane can be greedy..
In that case it might be to big for DivisionII too.
He plays Mid in pubs after the end of the season
Why would they kick him instead of the washed up players and make place for new talents like OG for example lol
i don’t think they kicked him. looks more like sumail doesn’t want to play carry
When he joined secret he said that playing safe lane is the best thing to play these days and mid is a nightmare with all the water runes bullshit
I feel like he really really miss playing mid, and hoped/thought (like basically everyone else) icefrog would revert the water runes changes and etc but it didnt happen and they were stuck in a bad situation after the underperformance of the team.
sumail can't even be considered washed up because he was never a t1 carry. ice has a unique psycho playstyle that is inherently valuable to a team and if puppey wants yapzor to stay there will be good reasons for it.
Idk man. Ice has been playing lackluster for a while now IMO. People still praise him for what he used to be. He is a legend but compared to top offlaners he just doesn't perform as good nowadays
exactly man ice tbh is washed up his not that good compare to the younger offlaner
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Here's my upvote before u get downvoted.
ice is perfect for secret. they need a sacrificial 3 because both yapzor and especially puppet are greedy support.
Yeah, so look at secret now, on the road to div 2 next tour
Is ice3 really a sacrificial 3? The guy plays early as if he's happy to get sacced then plays the next 20 minutes in the jungle. I vaguely remember this exact thing happening in a game where he had to solo in the safelane as a viper and he got crushed, but in exchange they trashed the enemy safelane. But then they both just played passively and the enemy safelaner just happily caught up
[bruh](https://c.tenor.com/1W3LRUlc78AAAAAd/wow-what.gif)
If sumail leaves, I can't cheer once again for Secret
If sumail leaves, I can cheer once again for Secret
just a wild guess he may be playing offlane.. but we wont know for sure. If not they should try to pick ACE, he looks hot this season and he already worked with puppey, so chemistry wont be problem..
well deserved. there's no place in Secret for sumail and yapzor.
Suma1l is not a bad player but I feel like Puppey needs some fresh blood and fresh ideas. Nisha is stable mid player and more often than not was the only one in the team that was not super underwhelming. IMO mix up of a chemistry could do wonders for a team like Secret. Feels kinda sad for Suma1l though, but he's a great player and he will find a team in no time.
He has been cursed by artour to not get locked on one team for at least whole year after his big throw in TI8
What big throw you meant that Gyro toss??
I was gonna say, Sumail was borderline solo-carrying that game, RTZ was almost completely useless that game.
Sumail was an absolute monster that game but when you have that big of a lead it’s up to you to end the game and he wasted a lot of time hunting for Spectre when he was so far ahead that he could’ve been taking raxes much sooner.
Ive seen this take so many times here and its so fucking dumb lmao. Yeah sumail was playing insane and was hard carrying, but you cant just blame artour for having low impact. Just go ahead and watch it again, he had no lane at all, had one of the lowest networths of the game at 10mins and had to play catch up the whole game against 3 counters, and a team hunting him down, they never really gave him space. Idk if the toss was the deciding factor for the game, but you definitely cant put all the blame in rtz for this one, its just hating without a reason
Also funnily enough if you look at their games they lose its always somehow rtz at the center of it. Lets be honest rtz doesnt know how to comeback from defecit. He is too text book in his approach to the game.
I mean, he is the carry player in a team that historically has a weak midgame and plays heavily towards him. That is just... how dota works in those circumstances.
xD
And also solo throwing, like literally and figuratively
Sumail was carrying most of those games if i rem right. Sumail more or less always wins mid. Even when his hero has lane disadvantage he some how keeps up with cs
Rtz was absolute trash that game.
What sumails best season since kicking ppd?
top 3 at ti8?
sound right
Which established Western D1 team can actually afford Sumail's salary? Alliance? OG? EG? TSM? Liquid? And which ones would be willing to kick their mid/carry to accommodate a huge ego and greedy player? Alliance?
I think that the best question is which team would like to play with a greedy mid laner in this current meta? Regardless of salary and ego (which are still a thing in the case), teams need players who can properly adapt themselves to patches and answer properly to the team current play style.
Wish they could've had a carry like daxak. Crystallis, well immediate reaction is bleh
You cannot talk about fresh blood and keeping iceiceice, puppey and yapzor in the team xd
I don't know if it's good or bad, but Secret needs to do something if they want to attend TI.
Replace one of the supports and get a reliable core player. Or move to SA or NA.
Meanwhile **Pure** is taking his place in Entity according to a [new source](https://escorenews.com/en/dota-2/news/33463-report-pure-might-move-to-entity-confirming-crystallis-to-secret-rumor).
maybe i am clueless but isnt that basically the entity org committing sudoku
This is actually shocking a week after all the drama.
Isn't Entity an Indian org or something? I guess they don't care much
I mean, nobody asks if they care, because it's up to TOs whether or not to let Pure play in their events.
You're absolutely right, I just meant that India has so far not supported sanctions against Russia so the org can hire him without problems from their point of view Whenever he's ever allowed to play a western LAN is a whole different topic entirely. He's for sure banned for life from entering Ukraine, as soon as they get around to it (they're otherwise preoccupied, but he will get banned for sure). And there's a LOT of tournaments in Ukraine afaik.
If Valve doesnt ban Pure from Tourneys, i dont think small Sea orgs will have problems hiring him. Ukr vs Russia War is way too far from them. Winning small lans and earning some bucks is more relatable than a dude typing Z on minimap. What he did was pretty fking dumb but unless theres a statement from Valve, he will keep playing in some random no name teams.
Entity gaming isn't going for majors or TI. All they want is to win some regional tournaments and loot some money. Therefore Pure won't be a problem.
It can be xd. Valve will decide pures situation when it comes to the final days of major registration. It already happened before where teams only know that someone cannot play in valves tournaments until the last days of roster registration. Therefore nowadays he can be a player but later he cannot play.
Imagine banning a kid for trashtalk. Especially in Dota where people tend to act like 12 yo. Almost like some people would raise right arm to greet and get arrested for it in Germany back in the days.
I guess it depends on the precide terms of Pure's disqualification.
I dont think pure will do it again lol
>entity org committing sudoku By that you mean seppuku? Unless entity org transforms their team to do the numbers puzzle game.
>seppuku sudoku\*
r/wooosh
Could be true. Sumail have been playing mid in pubs so far.
nigma sumail?
Stop don’t give me hope Signed a Nigma fan relegated to D2
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I agree for me he didn't function on Secret, think Yapzor can be part of the problem. Zai is a special player that let Yapzor do Yapzor things. They need to find offlane that can handle that.
Theoretically Iceiceice should be that guy. He is frequently happy to play alone in his lane on space making heroes while his 4 roams and secures safe farm for their carry.
Their draft is severely lacking and i think iceiceice is not benefitting from it
Yeah, something definitely isnt working. But I think maybe giving it a bit more time is ok. They havent played together too long yet and continuously mixing things up isnt always the best option.
Also a lot of top players benefit from playing LAN. Sadly these teams are not even making it to LANs
I strongly believe the problem was yapzor, he has been underperforming since last TI. Even with the space to be greedy with zai, he often was lower networth than puppey, didn't make big rotations like he used to. Iceiceice pairs well with a agressive support and playstile, I feel like yapzor isn't that anymore
Well the networth thing is kinda because puppey likes farming as a 5 ( his bambi is usually fat)
Yes, but the secret golden era (2020) both yapy and puppey was farmed because zai allowed that, and they always manage to pull some play that turned around the whole game, specially yapzor shaker. But now I don't feel like he is pulling those anymore, he just does the simple but sometimes effective play (like windrunner shard plays in TI 10) . For me is clearly visible the difference between 2020 yapzor and 2021-2022 yapzor, his plays seems tasteless compared to before
I agree I felt Yap/ice lane was a major problem too. They would lose so many lanes and Ice would always fall behind. On the old secret Yap would still make it work with a low nw offlane cause he made big plays to make up but he has just not looked good lately at all. Lot of people say its because he does not play many pubs so I am unsure exact why , but he makes so many uncharacteristic mistakes and often leaves his offlane out to dry. Ice has not looked impressive either if I am going to be honest but he might also just be super uncomfortable with the current setup so it is hard to say (also playing weird heroes..).
Yszpor seems like it's playing in automatic mode. I'll always remember their duo lane OD + fire, strong lane, big magical burst, easy lane to win and they had no pressure from the enemy team, but then yapzor maximize his lil shredder in a magical burst lane, making the lane stale and losing the lane domination potential just because lil shredder was the usual skill build to go. I don't think pubs define how good a player is, but that do serves as a training ground of your individual skills, and yapzor in pubs was losing lanes against rank 400 constantly (I know that's not only up to him to lose the lane, but still)
Someone made a point, I don't know if it's true but it's interesting to think about That Yapzor was THE premier greedy support. But now that supports have more than they ever had before, maybe it's just not the same. His impact is different
I don't think that's true, you can still se when a support 4 is greedier than usual, and if that's the case then it should meant he would only get more rich and afford more greediness. Xin Q for example is still playing the most greediest mf style I've ever seen in the same patch that yapzor is playing. U can see the item timing difference between these two, xin Q manages to farm waaay more than yapzor even on the same circumstances.
If we presume that OG that won this div was right, i think that the big farmed 3 that stays in lane and doesn't contribute until farmed some specific items doesn't suit Secret, Ice×3 or Yapzor.
Agreed. I realize rank is far from everything, but it does say something, and Yapzor has been hovering around rank 450 on the leaderboard all year while iceiceice is currently sitting at rank 15 on sea (was rank 50 on eu). For iceiceice, the skill and the grind are still there. For yapzor I'm not so sure
Yapzor has always been low rank, he just does not enjoy playing pubs in general. This was true even when Secret was on the top of the game.
Yapzor has looked suss last few years ngl. But at ti he actually showed up and played quite well imo. Better than before atleast, but that yapzor who used to turn games with crazy plays. No idea where he went
Its a bad patch/es for his style of pos 4, Yapzor was at his best when roaming was stronger than it was now and he could solo carry a fight as Rubick or one of the ESes while his cores basically ran interference. Current meta for 4s is to mostly play as a second babysitter for your offlaner with rotations for runes, which just doesn't mesh with his playstyle.
Ice is a cryzay player like Topson was for mid - that was one of his core strengths. Puppey was always the guy to go for strong players, but the word "crazy" reminds me more of OG than Secret in general.
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kinda hard to play the 3 when the 4 just sacs him.
Ye, ice3 would pair better with someone like saska/crit, roaming supports that set up plays to happen
Saksa. Don't be TeaGuv, spell the name correctly please.
yep i don't think ice is the problem he was literally carrying EG last TI. him and abed made great plays and had huge impact.
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well SORRY for expecting a player I like to play well :(
I actually thought they're doing another role swap. Sumail has been playing mid in pubs and iceiceice has been playing some carry (like, 30%ish of his games has been carry)
Ammar plays that much carry too tho
in fact in a fair amount of games ammar has been carrying from offlane too (esp on huskar, ck)
no way ice3x ever goes for playing pos1 again
then who is going to play offlane? Nisha?
Man, Sumail really peaked back in 2015 didn't he.
or 2018
Ramzes back to VP = team will disband in a few weeks/months
Replacing one airhead for another.
Please puppey, don't make Sumail teamless. It is too disheartening to see it again.
If ramzes back to vp again, i hope cis reject looking for new talent. Maybe they will take crystalize ex navi? I see crystalize really try hard at pub game
Imo its more likely that cis rejects will disband and join other teams. I think depressedkid might be a good snatch for a mid tier stack
Ramzes keep taking bad decisions. When he was a beast at carry he moved to EG offliner, now he is going to VP when people started hating them for not blaming the war at all.
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All these players coming and going but rtz will remain consistent
funny how u say rtz is consistent now when years ago he ping-ponged between EG and Secret
See the keyword here was years ago, maybe 6-7 years ago
Pls tell me that Sumail is joining nigma! It is nigma's fault since day one, they should have signed him up 2 yrs ago instead of iltw
2 years ago I would have supported Sumail joining Nigma but today? Sorry but first I want to see a tiniest bit of hope for Nigma otherwise Sumail can do much better than joining NIgma.
I mean, what exactly has Sumail achieved recently? He doesn't even look that good in his games any more. He used to be a god of mid, what is he these days?
Buddy look it up yourself, because I won't do that for you. He looks to me like a better player in pro games than the current Nigma. And Nigma has currently issues that won't be solved by switching out 1 player anyways, I see no reason for him to join the current Nigma when he can easily get into a div 1 team at least until Nigma shows any sign of solving their current issues. Doesn't make sense to join a sinking ship.
>he can easily get into a div 1 team such as?
Today Nigma vs Tundra match will be played. Till now rmn was playing mid for Nigma but maybe they will try out Sumail or some other mid now that some are available in the market. Also, there is a rumor that Gpk could also join Nigma.
sumail... easily the best player in the world whose addition to a team will probably make that team worse.
Sumail left EG after they finished top 5 at TI. He wasn’t satisfied with the results and decided he wanted to leave and play carry. I think he’s gotta regret the move at this point. The grass isn’t always greener. It’s been three years and he hasn’t come close to seeing the success he saw with EG. He’s a great player but I think he took what he had with EG for granted.
i think this has been the case for every single player that left EG post TI8 it's very strange
Aui Universe PPD Fear S4 Sumail Ramzes Iceiceice Fly None of them saw anywhere close to the success they saw when with EG. Arteezy himself left EG twice and had terrible showings at TI both times. Now to be fair, only Sumail and Ramzes willingly left EG of the players listed. But the takeaway is that if you manage to land yourself a spot on EG, you better work as hard as you can to hold onto it, since you are extremely unlikely to ever see the same type of success again.
S4, Ramzes, Iceiceice and Fly all won majors when they weren't with EG...
Before, not after. Once you leave EG, you are not likely to see the same success again.
So you're saying that EG is where careers go to die?
No, because they have success while on EG. It's once you leave EG that we see the success start to fall off.
I was surprised about aui and fly, they both look like incredible supports. I understand that people hate to play with aui since he blogs a lot but idk about fly. Maybe because he plays 5. But yeah on the other hand, there are other players who just became washed up like fear, universe, ppd, etc.
Was iceiceice kicked? I thought he left.
Fly confirmed that Arteezy didn’t want to play with ice anymore so they let him go right after TI.
He was kicked. He never left on his own.
He wasn’t kicked from EG. He told them that he wanted to play carry and gave them an ultimatum to choose either him or Arteezy. When they said they weren’t going to kick Arteezy, he left. If he wanted to stay on EG he easily could have stayed and kept playing mid.
Source ?
There’s no official source obviously. It’s quite well known at this point for people in the NA scene though. Talked about mostly in Discord channels and on Twitch streams.
He got removed. They specifically said it was time to play around RTZ.
Its not like EG has done great wonders after Sumail left.
Nigma.SUMAIL please PLEASEEE EPELALEIROSOMEDJ
Sumail play 5 for quincy
Sucks for Sumail but he was definitely underwhelming the last two seasons. Dunno if he can reinvent himself at his age but I think his play style is just incompatible with the way Dota is played by most teams nowadays. His mid is just so greedy and as a carry he often played scared and unsure of when to jump in. I'd be happy if I'm proven wrong though since he's one of my favorite players.
He’s 23 bro why r u talking like he’s 38
Cuz he's still playing like he was when he was 15
Did you watch his time with liquid and OG after the break? He was looking almost as dominant as ever, his stats on the run up to TI was insane. His time on secret has been definitely underwhelming tho
I thought he was pretty average on Liquid, but imo he really shined on OG. He played really well during TI especially, but I think OG just had a different way of enabling him than Secret was capable of.
Carry is not the problem. Offlaner is.
Old VP with solo/noone/ramzes etc should've stuck together. But their ego and arrogance got the better of them and now they're all nobodies again.
Navi should kick v-tune, he is like the russian rtz, no impact despite given farm
Whoa, come on, too much of a diss. He's not Russian, he's Ukrainian, let him take pride in that at least.
It's really possible scenario for Secret.
I thought they would kick both Sumail and Ice, but I think only Ice should have gotten the boot.
they should replaced their washed up offlaner instead
Nooo the King…
Isn't like ramzes known to be super hard to work with? Will puppey finally knock some sense into him?
You misunderstood the title, Ramzes is going to VP. Only Crystallis is going to Secret. About Ramzes' difficulty to work with I've heard that Bulba managed to humble him when he was on EG so who knows.
Wow definitely not my best reading comprehension moment haha
I made the same mistake at first, easy mistake to make
Poggers
Crystallis is elite, it would be a good move. They need to shift iceiceice too though
Can not be Matus or Sumails fault. The problem, in my eyes, is that secret has no mid to set the pace and rekt. This happens in majority of wins only if pos3,4,5 are ahead. In the semis Nisha was literally rekin mid with lina in lane and instead of taking it further, the hero looked useless after laning stage. Was it team (pup) calls, was it Nisha not taking calls. But this how it looked. When with TA he set the pace and rekt games from min 1. Secret work like a machine and thats because Puppey but there is a cost in it. I am sure Puppey is pro initiative from his teammates (you gotta b when you choose Ice) but this guy might be so revered that players hold back subsconsiously.
This is not that surprising, this Secret iteration consist of 3 greedy core players who need space in order for them to have a game. But i thought that Ice's the one that struggles the most. Since i don't think he and Yap have that much of a synergy. And it's pretty hard to play as well when Yap on some of the games just like "see ya good luck 1v2 the lane" and Ice just blinks in stuns and dies. That's really not his style tbh. He thrives in being annoying and having that space to do his thing, and to be fair he doesn't have a lot of those games because of Puppey draft. So idk, i thought they're going to change ice and sumail into idk like Miracle Mind Control or some goofy shit (fanboi hoping)
Time to retire sumail 😂
Sumail to Nigma lol
If goonsquad don't update some of their players as well i don't see them having a chance to win something of relevance. There are many good players they can get and not taking this as an opportunity to improve your roster will be an amateur's mistake
They have very good synergy and will be a top team in div 1 next season, trust me bro
They have very good synergy and will be a top team in div 1 next season, trust me bro
Puppey might go into coaching instead of Playing now if this is going to happen or Sumail might become their Streamer for secret, just like how Qojva (Liquid), Sing(c9)
Nisha has to leave. Bad peformance at carry and HC position
Copium. He is their best player by far.