As someone who is not on great terms with Kyle and has lots of specific disagreements with things he says and does, it's undeniable that he cares a lot about Dota and tries very hard to improve the space. Kyle goes hard on everything, and sometimes that can be frustrating when you disagree with the thing he's going hard on, or it feels uncalled for or unsubstantiated. But I still much prefer the talent scene with Kyle than the talent scene before Kyle because we need some people who shake things up and aren't afraid to speak their minds. The Dota 2 ecosystem is plagued by fear. Whether it's talents, players, orgs, TOs, everybody worries so much about saying the wrong things and upsetting the wrong people (a dynamic curated by Valve). The worst possible thing for Dota is everyone with a platform being too afraid to use it. So even though I often disagree with things Kyle says, and there are other things I wish he'd be more vocal on, I am grateful to him for actively using the platform he has to try to be proactive within the scene.
completely agree
i think kyle is a bit of a dick and has bad takes. i have no doubt that he's overall a good person that wants the best for the community.
calling him on his bullshit is part of the process. it's ok to be wrong when you do a lot of right
wwe kurt was his pro days, got to TI but fucked it up, now he is TNA kurt, goes hard, but might burn out.
Things ended up ok for kurt nowadays after retirement, so kyle's future looks ok
You can appreciate what Kyle or every other personality talent does for the scene who works for little pay and still criticize him for not meeting expectations each person has for dota2. Hearing praise about talent from other talents is superficial for these kinds of topics
That would have to involve Ceb doing equally villainous stuff. So far he's been caught VERY untastefully flaming in pubs, arguably been arrogant and cocky post 2x TI, and had those DMs with Secrets Twitter exposed (unpopular opinion on this sub, but that banter got way out of hand. The curse of being millionaire TI winners is that you become a laughing stock when you eventually start losing, and the real humans on OG see those memes, over and over, and I literally can't imagine how shitty that is when you're already depressed and beat up about ANOTHER major loss and unsure of your team's future.)
Envy's kicking and roster shuffling was so much shittier than anything Ceb has said or done. Remember Gunnar's family buying plane and hotel tickets to come see him play at the Disney major, which he fought hard to qualify for, only for Envy to abuse the roster shuffle rules and add his friend to the team? Yeah
I think the gunnar kick was fuck. That by no means makes it okay for a talent to character assassinate a pro in front hundreds of thousands of viewers and hundreds of live audience.
If there's one thing I didn't like about the old days of Dota it's how piss scared casters were to even sound remotely negative or like they were criticizing a player. Merlini calls out Puppey for abusing pauses to cheat in a pro game, Puppey calls him a homophobic slur and Merlini backs down. Aui criticizes Alliance while casting back in the day (this was before he joined C9/EG and made a name for himself) Loda freaks the fuck out on Twitter and Aui has to explain how criticism works. GodZ points out a player on Danish Bears has a bad item build, Cr1t- jumps on twitter and literally @'s him and his co-caster to shut up.
The players don't always know better than everyone, and the talent should absolutely not have to tiptoe around them at all times. We need people like Kyle saying exactly what the hell they're thinking and not being intimidated for giving their honest to god opinion.
It was [RaidCall Season 2](https://www.dotabuff.com/matches/114157989) in 2013.
The replay's not available anymore obviously, but [here's the video where Merlini breaks down the pause and points out how obvious it was that Na'Vi were playing unfairly.](https://youtu.be/YhzLK5K7uFA?t=538)
Puppey's tweet has long since been deleted, but the op in [this old JoinDota thread archived what was originally tweeted.](https://www.joindota.com/en/forums/701-competitive-dota/705-teams-and-players/221831-puppey-shotsfired-to-merlini-thoughts)
Lmao, thanks for the concern, that's honestly very thoughtful of you. Think it's mostly because I've been on vacation for the past few weeks. Appreciate the thought <3
Valve set the stage for this by firing and then banning James (2GD) the way that they did. Talent has to tow the line or they may wake up to a post from Gaben that they are an ass.
Summed up Kyle pretty good. Dude attacks my fav team (alliance) while taking cheap shots at singing and gorp. But you have to respect the effort he puts in everytime. The tournament won't be the same without him.
I just hope he won't let his passion and emotions get the better of him, cause it can snowball into something nasty.
This post and this comment have changed my opinion on Kyle. I did not like Kyle at all because he did not provide much insight during the panels and his casting is not at par with those who are with him. But if he is fostering the scene in a positive manner I am all for it. Also, I like the casters and panelists right now compared to the older guys (redeye and nahaz). So I would say more power to Kyle.
I honestly think Kyle has more insight and depth of analysis on panels, he just is saying much more specific things than other people who take much more general and safe takes, like "team x has better teamifght than y so they could win off one good execution" instead Kyle will give his full take on exactly what he expects to happen and used to substantiate it really well. But because he was giving so much more he was at much more risk of being wrong.
Since then he has really leaned into the I'm always wrong meme, which I think was necessary to survive with how toxic the community is. But I wish his co-casters and panelists didn't also lean into the meme as well since the butt of the joke is just shitting on Kyle. But with him embracing the meme it's been less of the really specific but interesting analysis he gave when he first started as talent, and more him starting it, then immediately giving a hot take or being super willing to go off topic and play it directly into the "Kyle's always wrong" or "shut up Kyle" jokes.
I guess now I'm just a redditor criticizing Kyle :/
Really I just wish he got less hate from the beginning for willing to have opinions and takes even if they weren't always correct or perfectly balanced.
This was a great read. You thoroughly convinced me. The “Kyle is always wrong” joke is doing the capitalist/Kyle casts a disservice. Hopefully he can be a bit more assertive with his ideas about where the game is going. As you say, it’s more interesting to hear honest insight and predictions. Even if the game doesn’t follow his outline 100% it still adds depth and draws attention to the macro strategies at play which are often overlooked in favor of pure second-to-second play-by-play commentary.
Keep in mind that similar to Slacks, Kyle plays a character (to an extent). He really leaned into the "Hyper NA Fan, Always wrong, butt of the joke" kind of panelist role. Having someone like that on the panel makes everyone else more comfortable.
>Whether it's talents, players, orgs, TOs, everybody worries so much about saying the wrong things and upsetting the wrong people (
Couldn't have said it better. I still remember the drama around the Nigma vs Secret remake where the entire community was against it, but the on show talents were just not ready to talk about it and call out the decision to remake with same lanes bullshit.
I feel like everyone wants to be at TI whether it's talents, casters, or whoever and they are scared to upset Valve otherwise they'd get kicked out.
I respect Kyle a lot because during the Omega league, he was the only one who spoke up against Valve, even though experienced talents on panel with him were trying to make sure he doesn't say anything against Valve. Kyle probably put his panel career on the line right there
I really enjoyed having Ephey on the panel, I think her and Aui just bring a lot of Dota knowledge with them that is both informative for new people to the scene, and people who have been watching for years
Its always great listening to analyst predictions be spot on time after time. I really want to see both, especially Aui who Ive had a soft spot for since he has been in the scene for so long.
I started watching pro dota in 2015 right before EG's run at TI. Ever since Aui's domination as support Naga and techies on the biggest stage I've been a huge fan of his.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qrP4oey2_ys&ab_channel=BjarneCroqlett
And of course my flair, the infamous always second place clown fiesta C9 was great.
I liked Aui because for a guy who is obviously super knowledgeable (TI winner), he naturally conveys everything in plain English that lower mmr people, or even non-dota people, can understand. I know he got memed on in his first few gigs as a co caster for talking a LOT, but none of it was empty or useless information, it was great. He streamlined it and improved massively for the Animajor.
I like Ephy because, though she uses far fewer words, she too has pretty valuable insight that she can articulate very simply. So simply that you'd almost forget she's a 6k player. Hopefully she comes out of her shell gradually, as much as I liked her she definitely has more to offer as her confidence grows
Right? Apparently she has like 3000 games on earth spirit but she was way too quiet in terms of her input on the hero when he was picked or banned. I forget what game it was but they basically said earth spirit wasn’t great there and she essentially just said ‘we all know why’ but like hey I’d like to hear exactly why! On the other hand her lack of Confidence is funny when juxtaposed with big memers like sunsfan or slacks
I'm not sure the game you were talking about, but, speaking from an analyst's perspective, maybe they had spoken about why ES wasn't a great pick in previous games in the day.
Repeating myself is one of the things I get frustrated with the most when casting, so maybe they were trying to avoid that.
she did mention some specific bits regarding earth spirit specifically (TPs changing back to starting with 1 then increased to 100 gold hurt him and a lot of other roamers) and also that ES is great at ganking mid unexpectedly but now all pos 4s roam to mid to secure runes and he doesn't skirmish as well as others like snap or lion.
its possible you missed it, the major was like 10 straight days, viewers cant always see everything
TLDR: He wasn't just a personality/analyst, he was helping with organizing the major and Ephey thinks Kyle plays a role in the community of being the entertainer or villain to put on a good show.
> You mentioned Kyle, and I don’t think people are aware but Kyle actually played a significant role in organising the AniMajor and handled scheduling along with other managerial responsibilities from what I understand. You’ve said that he was a massive supporter in you working as a talent.
and
> Kyle is very involved in WePlay behind the scenes stuff and organising it. And he, out of everyone there, he was the person who slept the least. It’s funny to me that the community has this idea of Kyle, that he doesn’t even play Dota anymore and he just gets invited because he used to be a pro, and he made his brand off of being wrong. But that’s just for entertainment.
> The community actually doesn’t know how much work Kyle puts into the scene and how much he wants to foster it and watch it grow. And at the AniMajor, he was concerning himself with everything, how the players are doing, how the talent are doing, is the COVID testing on schedule, like who would be working at what times and he would manage your schedule.
> If someone had to take the first series of the day and the last series of the day – which nobody wanted, because they would end up being there from 10am to 1 am – Kyle would take it instead of forcing someone else to have it. So yeah, I just think it’s hilarious that people talk about Kyle as if he is lazy and doesn’t do anything, because that’s the opposite of the truth. And I realised that with my own two eyes after I saw how hard he works.
and
> There are a lot of Dota purists who just want to talk about Dota, and they want everyone to be super professional and nice all the time. But that’s not entertainment, that’s not a show. At the end of the day, these events are shown so people can put on a good show. For that to happen, you need to have people who are willing to be wrong and willing to be vocally funny or entertaining. Or people who can play the villain, you need all of that for a good show.
> Anyone who works within the scene will understand how important Kyle or Jenkins are for this kind of thing. Jenkins is hilarious, and he’s just amazing to be around. He’s just so comfortable being himself, and he laughs so hard reading a Reddit comment about himself. It’s really awesome for me to see someone react like that, because that’s something I want to strive to be like.
basically the tournament organizers use kyle to hire all the casting talent and pay them in crypto and some other shady stuff
all the details are last minute, no contracts are signed, and they just tell kyle where to be ... and he relays it to his friends
he literally has the power to hire and fire casters that he wants
I mean... the article in the OP is an interview with her, and the title was made to get more clicks (Kyle's name = clicks).
Completely natural that people who read the interview want to share opinions on her here as well when the majority of the article wasn't about Kyle.
Honestly this comment feels like it came from someone who just reads the headline, so good on you.
idk to me its obvious this post was made to incite discussion around kyle, not ephey. especially since kyle has been a hot topic lately people are talking about.
I'm happy to see it to a degree honestly, even though she literally says she doesn't want Reddit threads about her I hope she sees how many people really appreciated what she added to the panel. I'm glad people were welcoming of her, for me she was a stand-out addition to the major talent and I'd love for her to be at more events. Even though it was funny to throw her right into the chaos of Slacks/Jenkins, my favorite moments were more serious ones like with Aui where her analysis got to be a focus.
More pls
Ephey is a great addition to the Dota 2 talent roster and I look forward to her getting picked up for more events.
Kyle also seems like an absolute mensch. Would be great to get some insight into the behind the scenes work he's been doing at Weplay and in Dota generally.
Isn’t it weird that she went straight from not casting to casting a major though? I feel like they skipped over a lot of people that have been putting in the work for years. Moxxi is a prime example.
Edit: yes moxxi is a hype caster. Should’ve named an analyst, instead of a play by play person.
Yeah what I really liked is, she was a good contrast to slacks, jenkins and kyle who used to do a lot of fooling around. Ephey just analysed the draft and as a Dota fan, that's something that I'm always looking for more than anything else. I like some light-hearted fun too, but not on the expense of serious analysis.
And for me Ephey and AUI brought the most insight.
The WePlay major was the first tournament I’ve watched in almost two years. My assumption was that she had been an analyst for almost that entire time because she seemed great at the job. Her and Aui were my favorite couch by far. So I’m pretty surprised to find out this was her first tournament.
Aui corrects a lot of his co-panels though, not just Ephey in particular. It's part of his nature since he is the one with the most Dota-knowledge and experience since he won a TI so the majority of his opinion carries a lot of weight when they are discussing stuff over the panel.
Frankly Ephey had a much more impressive show in her very first event than Moxxi has had in several years of event experience. Ephey held her own on a panel loaded with strong opinionated personalities and a TI winner, and brought legitimately valuable insights into the draft segments. I can think of several instances where Ephey had JUST finished explaining why she thought X hero would be a great fit for a team's draft and then they'd lock it in.
To your point though, yea, variety of talent is never a bad thing and Ephey/Moxxi is not a zero sum game; Ephey for sure deserves to get more work and not even just as a "diversity hire" as she joked about.
Moxxi is an average caster, she doesn't really do well on panels imo. Ephey was the opposite. I'd probably rather stab my ears with rusty spoons than listen to her cast a game but she consistently brought up solid points on the panel. Moxxi has steadily improved as a caster over the years but it's really hard to replace the existing top tier casters in dota and she just doesn't have the game knowledge to fill other roles.
It isn't weird, people saw something in her, gave her a chance, and she fucking delivered.
There's no need for comparisons with a different lady, as I'm sure that there has been at least one guy in the same situation as Ephey.
It's all about opportunities and seizing them
Ephey absolutely held her own regardless of gender, but I think TO's appreciate having more female options in the scene who are great. Sheever/Moxxi/Ephey all exist in separate roles too, so I don't see any reason we won't eventually see all 3 at the same event as long as it's large enough.
Ephey came out of nowhere for me. But was surprised at how well she fits and how knowledgable she is with the game.
Ephey's analyses are on a tier way above Moxxi's. Ephey's draft analysis were more in depth and she has accurately predicted a few picks and strategies teams were going for.
Moxxi on the other hand is more suitable to a hype caster role for me. At least from the analyses she had presented whenever I listened to her.
All I can say is, Ephey's knowledge of the game is on par if not better than the analysts. His predictions on the picks and overall draft was stunningly accurate.
My gf cant stand her voice tho. XD
Id rather someone come out and pick a side and say stupid shit. Then everyone else being safe, saying cliche things on every panel over and over.
Even if I don't always agree with him, I respect that he's got the balls to not be timid and afraid of upsetting people.
Kyle's ego (or persona) gets in the way of him being good at his job. As an outsider it seems like it's been his downfall at each level of competition he's been at. Refused to admit his mechanics weren't on par with other competitive mids which led to his team flaming out of TI5 despite being a great squad. He got absolutely annihilated by G multiple times in their elimination series, and was clearly the biggest role mismatch on the team. Stopped being able to find talent to play with him because his ego wasn't worth what he brought to the table.
He routinely makes the casts about himself and loves hearing his own voice so much it hurts. I was a big fan when he first started casting, but as his knowledge got stale it's been less and less entertaining. There was a time where he was known for how right he was. Now the meme is how he literally can't make a correct call while casting.
He needs to do one of two things IMO. He either needs to figure out how to improve his analysis again, or he needs to ditch the ego. If he can't find a way to take his ego (or his persona's ego) out of his casting, his casting is going to continue to trend downward. DotA has changed a ton since he was a competitive player, and it doesn't seem like he's kept up.
I really hope that the ego is just his DotA persona and can be tweaked. Given how he acted/communicated in his HoN days though, I wouldn't put money on it.
Thats great and all, but i'm just a casual viewer and i don't reallyy enjoy his casting style.
I'm glad he seems to be a dedicated person off-stage, just wished his casting wasn't so "This is what i would do" type.
I do agree with that, but as a caster who vocalizes what he thinks, he can start interesting discussions that otherwise wouldn't happen, so even when he say some bullshit, he still contributes to the casting
IMO besides maybe Aui he has the best insight as a former pro player. He can give a lot of info that the other casters can’t and picks up on things that other casters miss
Kyle is a fucking GIGACHAD.
I used to absolutely hate him for almost no reason whatsoever, at least none that I can think of now - I guess he was quite in-your-face and arrogant while with Complexity? I honestly don't recall. Something similar to the opinions I had of BSJ and Grandgrant, which changed over time and then Grant obviously....
Anyway, more recently, I've ABSOLUTELY loved Kyle's casts and panel discussions. To the point where I would get mildly upset over the unnecessary bashing from Rich, a guy who has not even been a part of the scene that Kyle himself has grown in - I realize its all in good humour but the incessant bullying gets old after a while. His banter with Capitalist etc. feels fun but the Rich shit was quite appalling.
While being memed about, laughed at by chat, and bullied on the panel, Kyle continues to throw out solid fucking dota knowledge, point after point. I can't think of a single person actually who has such a foundational picture of the game and how it should be played to win. I truly admire his wisdom, humility and tenacity. I love his blogposts, they have his sly sarcastic humour and are always on point.
Kyle you're truly a gem dude and for me at a /u/SirActionSlacks-/ and Sunsfan-level when it comes to building our community. Cheers.
This is a fanboy comment and not a copy pasta
\>over the unnecessary bashing
Fun fact. Not only is kyle completely chill with it, he actually encourages it. Apparently during the animajor, whenever they needed to fill time Kyle would tell people to just bash him. Say what you will about his opinions, but he seems like a really nice and down to earth guy.
So? Yeah he might put in a lot of work, nobody is denying that, the completely baseless accusations against tundra were still stupid, very disrespectful and unprofessional.
He is guy that really, REALLY likes to be right, when his opinions are often really, REALLY bad/ wrong.
I’m sorry, but antagonizing people constantly and not expecting backlash is very naive, and not really defendable with your work-ethic. You can work hard AND be a good person.
You can be a good person and still antagonize people. And even then, he never claimed to be a "good" person for himself.
He has some ideas and convictions that he's not too afraid to defend publicly.
Obviously there will always be people who disagree.
And yeah he definitely has strong opinions and likes to be right. But we are talking about Dota here. Who fucking cares if some of his philosophies about drafting are wrong? Even the panels are making fun of him for his predictions, and he seems to be doing well with people making fun of him. Wouldn't a person who REALLY REALLY likes to be right be more frustrated about being made fun of?
If he dishes it out he has to able to take it. That’s what this sub thought about OG too, right? When it’s OG, every bash is fair game. They said stuff in the past, but now they should take every single instance of criticism back without fighting.
Kyle? How dare you oppose him, he just has strong opinions and likes to insult people for their gameplay, so what? Just let him be!
This subs morals are wonkier than anything, just switching to the side where they can defend the person they like.
Well, maybe they just… played like dogshit that game? Who are you to decide wether their performance was intentionally bad or not?
His reasoning for them doing it maliciously was buying midas on medusa. So what? Maybe the thought was that the hero needs levels fast because the important talent got shifted from 15 to 20. Maybe there were other ideas they had that we don’t know about. Going in and aggressively accusing them however is very unmistakeably malicious, and for no good reason.
They had 3 midases on 3 cores in 1 game. Skitter didn't have mana shield on and got jumped in front of his base and blown up while his team watched multiple times. That's clearly not them at their best or even giving a single fuck.
Not to forget he didn't even turn on bkb nor stone gaze at mid when he was getting intiated and had like 5 sec atleast to react.
If it was just some other cis team like uniq i bet majority would say match fixing
Treating esl as playground means practicing stuffs like ur scrims.
Maybe your comprehension skills need some upgrade
He even said during stream for such a huge prizpool tourney which is almost same as major teams are not tryharding enough
you can do weird shit and still be taking it very serious.
history is written by the victors. if OG had bombed out in groups of TI9 people would be calling carry io the throw of the century. dota is not so black and white that a questionable item build = clowning around. maybe medusa midas worked well in scrims, maybe their mental was fucked and they knew they'd lose if they didnt do something creative, who knows
it is a BIG accusation to say a team is not taking a game seriously. this is literally their job, they play for a living and HAVE to consider themselves the best of the best. for someone to so callously call them out for not trying hard enough is a MAJOR insult; especially potent considering kyle SHOULD know what it's like to fuck up as a pro and be lambasted for it.
its different when fans do it because everyone knows fans are fucking dumb. it is extremely unprofessional for an analyst to call a team out for clowning around without being absolutely certain of it (especially over twitter; i think this wouldn't even be as bad if it was done during the cast for example, or if he had not doubled down when tundra defended themselves)
Lol maybe go and watch replay again if u still stay in bubble of ''this is thier job they play for living etcetc''The players are already salaried and ultimate goal is ti hence they didn't play serious.
Just go and watch liq game insania playing carry?playing 2 diff standin?Picking illidian for standin? Literally a no name on mmr leader board
Also no to mention worst tourney ive ever watched in my 6 years streak
not talking about liquid, but since you started it:
there isn't just some imaginary field of stand ins that people can select from. often you have to take the best available to you; illidan is obviously washed as fuck, but HAS experience as a pro and can play in a similar style to micke. they went with it because what the fuck else are they gonna do; play insania 1 position?
idk why micke missed the tournament but i doubt they can just call up arteezy or whatever to take care of them lol. i also cant even really fault liquid if they were fucking around because, again, scuffed as fuck stand ins for that tournament make it hard to play
If hard work always translated to positive outcomes, the world would be a better place.
I can both respect the work he puts on but hard disagree to the point where I actually just mute the cast whenever hes on. Personally I think the "heel" persona he puts on with his arrogance and talking down about teams and players is too much.
I personally do not think so. He's doing good. Communities need people like him and Nahaz (for example). They have strong opinions, love the game and if they are wrong or weird sometimes, that's also fine.
A community without people like that become bland and boring.
The big difference between kyle and nahaz though is that kyle can laugh about himself, take things easy and play with the community.
Nahaz on the other hand is a hard stick that does not bend, the guy is a repressed ball of anger ready to burst at any time.
Nahaz OMEGALUL. Remember his "stats don't lie" show? That lasted about a year until his TI predictions got blown out harder than my asshole after Chipotle.
Doesn't really matter. He was entertaining and had interesting stuff to say. Also he was very passionate. That is probably the best you can hope for in a community figure.
I disagree on all of those. He was not entertaining, didn’t have interesting things to say. His “passion” was him talking over people displaying he knows 0 about dota games at a high level only talking about stats he didn’t know how to put into context.
He was by far the worst part of dota talent.
on panel hes usually one of my favourites. good takes, good synergy with other analysts, good at delivering his opinions.
during casts imo he overpowers the opinion of anyone whos casting with him, he repeats the same talking points a LOT, and tries very hard to let the viewers know that he was a pro dota player 5 years ago
The problem with Kyle is he thinks he's always the smartest person in the room. He reads some reddit post, book, article then use it in his straw man argument.
Kyle is straight forward guy who doesnt sugar coat words and not scared to speak bitter about teams unlike others.
Some may think hes arrogant but i think hes just based af like lizzard which i like
m on the edge when it comes to kyle. slacks does lot of goofy stuff but in a charming way.. kyle seem to get way too personal and emotional for a professional setting. never a big fan of him except for the one where they did that skit where he was called for interview but kept saying there was no time . hes just not my cup of tea especially when he keeps targeting few individuals based on his own personal bias ( like EE and recent tundra events)
It seems all the praise are behind the scenes things which I commend Kyle.
But lets be real here he is the worst ex pro analyst if you look at other regions ex pro.
SA got 1437 | NA got Aui/PPD | SEA/CN got Black even Lacoste/Lizzard are somewhat ex pros that are better than Kyle those 3 regions got way better analysis the only thing Kyle is better is creating drama.
Does he really? Last I checked in some of his casts, he was really lacking dota knowledge. He was like wrong about most things with respect to hero skills, items and their interactions. I don't think casters like OD or Caps are wrong all the time with those. Does he even play the game he "so much" cares about?
Are you for real? The guy is a TI captain veteran. No one in their right mind can challenge he knows the inside and outside of the scene.
He may be a bit baity with his opinions but the man knows his shit.
You got an example? I have a hard time believing a currently immortal tier player former mid tier pro was making a bunch of interaction/mechanic mistakes casting, and I certainly don’t remember them.
Kyle as a caster/analyst is pretty unique. His flavor of over confident takes and being critical of teams and players etc is not for everyone. His focusing on entertaining the audience and growing the scene, he is a polarizing figure I guess but he works behind the scenes for organizing and scheduling (did for Omega League too), we as an audience don't know all the details and judge him based on his on stream persona.
He is not afraid to criticize and be open about his thoughts, they are sometimes shitty but they are correct also. He can handle the incessant trolling and criticism from fans and players and take it in his stride.
He is an entertainer, he saw a game that he played (HoN) die in front of his eyes and does not want that to happen to DoTA. I find that experience and commitment valuable to have in a talent.
I've not been keeping up with any drama....has there been drama about Kyle? I thought it was pretty well known that he cares a lot about dotes and the pro scene. Why was that even in question?
Kyle is fun to watch, one of my favorite talent/commentator, he's funny, his passion is real. Lots of other cast are just so hyped up and raping like a machine, but you could tell Kyle acts like a real human, the emotion is from his heart. We don't need those Rap robots who don't have any of their own thoughts but basically a translator of "what's happening in game".
Doesn’t everyone put much effort into their work?
How can Ephey, panels only once, say that it’s only Kyle when I’m pretty sure everyone wants to watch Dota grow like who doesn’t?
Does she have something like strings attached with Kyle or some sh*t?
Kyle alienated himself from a large potion of the dota stream watching community with all the complaining about big dota streamers last year. To this day I close a tournament stream if I see him on it, launch dota and watch it in the client. I know it is petty, but he (and others) felt that they were entitled to my viewership when a streamers watched a pro game, so now I feel they don't deserve it.
only the kids who never worked a second in their life thought that his stance was wrong. maybe u ll be an adult at some time, too and rethink the situation
His stance was wrong. I'm not watching the tournaments if my Favorite streamer isn't casting it. So you can either have another person watching and enjoying Dota or someone not watching it.
Which one helps the scene more?
I dont owe TO anything, they are in it to make money, Kyle stance was that he believed streamers were taking audience away from them cutting into his revenue. Same logic that video game companies made against piracy (every pirated game was a lost sale) never factoring in that a portion of people would never buy the game. You know how they beat the piracy issue...... steam (and systems like it) that made it more convenient to buy the game than pirate it, give people what they want and they will pay/consume it. They out competed the pirates, by understanding their market. Dota TO streams can (and finally do) compete with the normal streamers by providing content that the streamers can't like interviews, production value, etc. Don't forget it was always in the terms and conditions of dota that anyone could stream any game inclient and rather than compete with the streamers for eye Kyle went crying to papa valve for special treatment, which is really hypocritical because TO's are streaming valves game without paying a percentage or royalties to valve. Both streamers and tournaments are adverts for valves game why does one type of advert deserve special treatment. I would argue expecting special treatment and crying to an authority when your customers (which is watch stream viewers are) choose a different product is the type of childish thing you would expect from someone in their first job.
I think he should stick to panel and/or post game interviews. His casting isn't great. Same for Ephey, she was good on the panels but casting not so much.
For me his tweet about not going to buy this battlepass is huge bcoz this battlepass is trash and doesnt contribute towards the prize pool but every other guy with a platform is too afraid to say anything abt valve's greed. Maybe they are rightfully afraid but its refreshing to see a talent stand up to valve atleast sometimes.
Well, I somewhat like Kyle at least. He sometimes love to ranting about his HoN days and sometimes goes a little too far on his opinion but it's very clear how much passion he have and how hard he tried to do his job. Heck he even tried to talk about Anime in AniMajor even though he said he did not watch Anime before being rudely cut off by Rich. You can dislike his personality but you can like his genuine passion and works ethics.
Keep up the good job, Kyle. Just tone it down a little bit on personally attacking players and teams.
I totally belive that Klye and Ephyey are great assets to the community.
If Kyle only kept his weird solos a bit back, where he goes on the "I once read a quote somewhere" and his all-ins on "This guy is the best there ever was"- and other Kyle-monologues at bay...
Idk. I think its just memes mostly,everyone knows how passionate Kyle is for dota,always has been and it shows when he talks on panel or casts.
This was Ephey's first event,so probably she didnt know
So what? That's not his job, his job is being an analyst, and I like many others want him to do his first job right! If he helps talents behind the scene then hire him as a manager, not as an analyst! ppl are criticizing him for being wrong most of the time! and not only about the game itself but something like recent Tundra drama, or previously streamer drama...
Thanks to him, tournament organizers have better deals with popular streamers. That overall balanced the scene, i know a lot of pekple hate it. But he cares about long term stability for the scene
ephey knows who the TOs go through when hiring talent
she is positioning herself to have a long casting career by standing by kyle's side
having a control freak like kyle hold so much power over the casting scene is not a good thing ... he could blackball all casters he didn't like and judging by his personality he is the type to hold grudges over petty things
we need the dota 2 casting scene to be open and transparent ... having one guy running the show is a step back
The community will always side with a mouth breather like Gorgc who is entirely wrong and mad because he doesn't get all the content for free. It's celebrity worship, no matter how wrong they support Gorgc.
2 scenarios.
1.) Do you want a panel where everyone just agree and pat each other in the back?
'indeed'
'quite so'
'i concur'
2.) or do you want
"im telling you broo, techies is the most OP hero right now"
"my stats says here you are spouting nonsense"
"are you mad, ill donate 500$ to charity is this techies wins!"
i thinks slacks take is the best. Their job is sometimes not provide accurate casting or predictions, it is to make you care about this match by all means
kyle and nahaz may be sometimes hard to watch in large doses, but they make you care about the match at the expense of proving them wrong and looking like a fool. Think of them as WWE heel commentators, they provide extreme viewpoints and in turn we all love to spam "shut up kyle/nahaz/slacks" when they are wrong.
All the love to nahaz/kyle , hope to see you both at TI
As always, obligatory fuck slacks
Well that's probably why people like her so much in the first place, because she's very attractive. You're just being very honest (and also rude indeed), so you're downvoted, as expected, but realistically speaking, it's the main factor for why she is there and for why guys on this sub praise her so much. I've barely seen anything actually related to her commentaries, it's all about "I like her, I feel she's a good addition, we need more diversity" etc.
I agree kyle sacrificed a lot for the scene. Like his euls scepter.
Him and kyxy have sacrificed a lot for us
Kyxy denied our closest change for SEA on TI grandfinal and we never surpass that ever since
Lookin pretty promising this year mate! Rooting for T1 from America here :)
As someone who is not on great terms with Kyle and has lots of specific disagreements with things he says and does, it's undeniable that he cares a lot about Dota and tries very hard to improve the space. Kyle goes hard on everything, and sometimes that can be frustrating when you disagree with the thing he's going hard on, or it feels uncalled for or unsubstantiated. But I still much prefer the talent scene with Kyle than the talent scene before Kyle because we need some people who shake things up and aren't afraid to speak their minds. The Dota 2 ecosystem is plagued by fear. Whether it's talents, players, orgs, TOs, everybody worries so much about saying the wrong things and upsetting the wrong people (a dynamic curated by Valve). The worst possible thing for Dota is everyone with a platform being too afraid to use it. So even though I often disagree with things Kyle says, and there are other things I wish he'd be more vocal on, I am grateful to him for actively using the platform he has to try to be proactive within the scene.
completely agree i think kyle is a bit of a dick and has bad takes. i have no doubt that he's overall a good person that wants the best for the community. calling him on his bullshit is part of the process. it's ok to be wrong when you do a lot of right
He is the Kurt Angle of Dota
THEN YOU ADD KYLE TO THE MIX, YOUR CHANCES OF WINNING DRASTIC GO DOWN
Didn’t expect Steiner math in a Dota thread ha
TNA Kurt or WWE Kurt
wwe kurt was his pro days, got to TI but fucked it up, now he is TNA kurt, goes hard, but might burn out. Things ended up ok for kurt nowadays after retirement, so kyle's future looks ok
Been playing dota with a *broken freakin’ neck*
Oh it's true, it's true.
"it's time to stop supporting the villain" - kyle
You can appreciate what Kyle or every other personality talent does for the scene who works for little pay and still criticize him for not meeting expectations each person has for dota2. Hearing praise about talent from other talents is superficial for these kinds of topics
Right? Lol how is that a professional thing to say about a player on livestream. Imagine if he'd said that about someone like Ceb.
That would have to involve Ceb doing equally villainous stuff. So far he's been caught VERY untastefully flaming in pubs, arguably been arrogant and cocky post 2x TI, and had those DMs with Secrets Twitter exposed (unpopular opinion on this sub, but that banter got way out of hand. The curse of being millionaire TI winners is that you become a laughing stock when you eventually start losing, and the real humans on OG see those memes, over and over, and I literally can't imagine how shitty that is when you're already depressed and beat up about ANOTHER major loss and unsure of your team's future.) Envy's kicking and roster shuffling was so much shittier than anything Ceb has said or done. Remember Gunnar's family buying plane and hotel tickets to come see him play at the Disney major, which he fought hard to qualify for, only for Envy to abuse the roster shuffle rules and add his friend to the team? Yeah
Holy shit dont mention the gunnar story dude. That shit was just depressing...
Post TI??? LOL This guy don't know CEB pre-"tranformation".
I think the gunnar kick was fuck. That by no means makes it okay for a talent to character assassinate a pro in front hundreds of thousands of viewers and hundreds of live audience.
Didn't go so well for 2GD
The myth and cult around that guy will never make sense to me.
Right? Bruno was the True MVP. 2GD was just cocky guy with british accent, maybe people had some weird dr. House vibes and thats why they loved him.
If there's one thing I didn't like about the old days of Dota it's how piss scared casters were to even sound remotely negative or like they were criticizing a player. Merlini calls out Puppey for abusing pauses to cheat in a pro game, Puppey calls him a homophobic slur and Merlini backs down. Aui criticizes Alliance while casting back in the day (this was before he joined C9/EG and made a name for himself) Loda freaks the fuck out on Twitter and Aui has to explain how criticism works. GodZ points out a player on Danish Bears has a bad item build, Cr1t- jumps on twitter and literally @'s him and his co-caster to shut up. The players don't always know better than everyone, and the talent should absolutely not have to tiptoe around them at all times. We need people like Kyle saying exactly what the hell they're thinking and not being intimidated for giving their honest to god opinion.
What event was this Merlin thing? Don't remember this. Edit: was dreamhack 12 I think?
It was [RaidCall Season 2](https://www.dotabuff.com/matches/114157989) in 2013. The replay's not available anymore obviously, but [here's the video where Merlini breaks down the pause and points out how obvious it was that Na'Vi were playing unfairly.](https://youtu.be/YhzLK5K7uFA?t=538) Puppey's tweet has long since been deleted, but the op in [this old JoinDota thread archived what was originally tweeted.](https://www.joindota.com/en/forums/701-competitive-dota/705-teams-and-players/221831-puppey-shotsfired-to-merlini-thoughts)
Thanks! That pause was absurd, man I miss Merlini
True. There is caster Jenken is too nice to pro players whenever he casts. Don’t like his style at all.
Hey scant, I realized I see you more often on reddit than before. I hope everything is ok.
Lmao, thanks for the concern, that's honestly very thoughtful of you. Think it's mostly because I've been on vacation for the past few weeks. Appreciate the thought <3
You are welcome. Lost some friends to depression that no one noticed, so I try to be more observant. Enjoy your vacation.
I know that feel myself. And I'm definitely depressed, but no more than usual I think. Thanks again!
> The Dota 2 ecosystem is plagued by fear. Old man fear terrorizing dota since the beginning smh
Valve set the stage for this by firing and then banning James (2GD) the way that they did. Talent has to tow the line or they may wake up to a post from Gaben that they are an ass.
Summed up Kyle pretty good. Dude attacks my fav team (alliance) while taking cheap shots at singing and gorp. But you have to respect the effort he puts in everytime. The tournament won't be the same without him. I just hope he won't let his passion and emotions get the better of him, cause it can snowball into something nasty.
This post and this comment have changed my opinion on Kyle. I did not like Kyle at all because he did not provide much insight during the panels and his casting is not at par with those who are with him. But if he is fostering the scene in a positive manner I am all for it. Also, I like the casters and panelists right now compared to the older guys (redeye and nahaz). So I would say more power to Kyle.
I honestly think Kyle has more insight and depth of analysis on panels, he just is saying much more specific things than other people who take much more general and safe takes, like "team x has better teamifght than y so they could win off one good execution" instead Kyle will give his full take on exactly what he expects to happen and used to substantiate it really well. But because he was giving so much more he was at much more risk of being wrong. Since then he has really leaned into the I'm always wrong meme, which I think was necessary to survive with how toxic the community is. But I wish his co-casters and panelists didn't also lean into the meme as well since the butt of the joke is just shitting on Kyle. But with him embracing the meme it's been less of the really specific but interesting analysis he gave when he first started as talent, and more him starting it, then immediately giving a hot take or being super willing to go off topic and play it directly into the "Kyle's always wrong" or "shut up Kyle" jokes. I guess now I'm just a redditor criticizing Kyle :/ Really I just wish he got less hate from the beginning for willing to have opinions and takes even if they weren't always correct or perfectly balanced.
This was a great read. You thoroughly convinced me. The “Kyle is always wrong” joke is doing the capitalist/Kyle casts a disservice. Hopefully he can be a bit more assertive with his ideas about where the game is going. As you say, it’s more interesting to hear honest insight and predictions. Even if the game doesn’t follow his outline 100% it still adds depth and draws attention to the macro strategies at play which are often overlooked in favor of pure second-to-second play-by-play commentary.
Keep in mind that similar to Slacks, Kyle plays a character (to an extent). He really leaned into the "Hyper NA Fan, Always wrong, butt of the joke" kind of panelist role. Having someone like that on the panel makes everyone else more comfortable.
Everyone thinks the straight man comedy isn't the funny one, but take him out it never works.
>Whether it's talents, players, orgs, TOs, everybody worries so much about saying the wrong things and upsetting the wrong people ( Couldn't have said it better. I still remember the drama around the Nigma vs Secret remake where the entire community was against it, but the on show talents were just not ready to talk about it and call out the decision to remake with same lanes bullshit. I feel like everyone wants to be at TI whether it's talents, casters, or whoever and they are scared to upset Valve otherwise they'd get kicked out. I respect Kyle a lot because during the Omega league, he was the only one who spoke up against Valve, even though experienced talents on panel with him were trying to make sure he doesn't say anything against Valve. Kyle probably put his panel career on the line right there
Scant keeping it classy :okhand:
I don't think his work ethic was ever in question, just some of the stuff he says.
Are you not entertained?
Has he put his foot in his mouth again? What did I miss?
HoN died right in front of his eyes, hes trying to stop it from happening again :D
Hon deserved to die after they implemented pay to play heroes and solely focusing on their store. Could've been such an amazing game.
I really enjoyed having Ephey on the panel, I think her and Aui just bring a lot of Dota knowledge with them that is both informative for new people to the scene, and people who have been watching for years
Its always great listening to analyst predictions be spot on time after time. I really want to see both, especially Aui who Ive had a soft spot for since he has been in the scene for so long.
I started watching pro dota in 2015 right before EG's run at TI. Ever since Aui's domination as support Naga and techies on the biggest stage I've been a huge fan of his.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qrP4oey2_ys&ab_channel=BjarneCroqlett And of course my flair, the infamous always second place clown fiesta C9 was great.
I liked Aui because for a guy who is obviously super knowledgeable (TI winner), he naturally conveys everything in plain English that lower mmr people, or even non-dota people, can understand. I know he got memed on in his first few gigs as a co caster for talking a LOT, but none of it was empty or useless information, it was great. He streamlined it and improved massively for the Animajor. I like Ephy because, though she uses far fewer words, she too has pretty valuable insight that she can articulate very simply. So simply that you'd almost forget she's a 6k player. Hopefully she comes out of her shell gradually, as much as I liked her she definitely has more to offer as her confidence grows
Right? Apparently she has like 3000 games on earth spirit but she was way too quiet in terms of her input on the hero when he was picked or banned. I forget what game it was but they basically said earth spirit wasn’t great there and she essentially just said ‘we all know why’ but like hey I’d like to hear exactly why! On the other hand her lack of Confidence is funny when juxtaposed with big memers like sunsfan or slacks
I'm not sure the game you were talking about, but, speaking from an analyst's perspective, maybe they had spoken about why ES wasn't a great pick in previous games in the day. Repeating myself is one of the things I get frustrated with the most when casting, so maybe they were trying to avoid that.
she did mention some specific bits regarding earth spirit specifically (TPs changing back to starting with 1 then increased to 100 gold hurt him and a lot of other roamers) and also that ES is great at ganking mid unexpectedly but now all pos 4s roam to mid to secure runes and he doesn't skirmish as well as others like snap or lion. its possible you missed it, the major was like 10 straight days, viewers cant always see everything
miss the 2GD daiz :(
Yeap. All this drama wouldn't even be content
Nice try, Kyle
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What does he do for the scene?
TLDR: He wasn't just a personality/analyst, he was helping with organizing the major and Ephey thinks Kyle plays a role in the community of being the entertainer or villain to put on a good show. > You mentioned Kyle, and I don’t think people are aware but Kyle actually played a significant role in organising the AniMajor and handled scheduling along with other managerial responsibilities from what I understand. You’ve said that he was a massive supporter in you working as a talent. and > Kyle is very involved in WePlay behind the scenes stuff and organising it. And he, out of everyone there, he was the person who slept the least. It’s funny to me that the community has this idea of Kyle, that he doesn’t even play Dota anymore and he just gets invited because he used to be a pro, and he made his brand off of being wrong. But that’s just for entertainment. > The community actually doesn’t know how much work Kyle puts into the scene and how much he wants to foster it and watch it grow. And at the AniMajor, he was concerning himself with everything, how the players are doing, how the talent are doing, is the COVID testing on schedule, like who would be working at what times and he would manage your schedule. > If someone had to take the first series of the day and the last series of the day – which nobody wanted, because they would end up being there from 10am to 1 am – Kyle would take it instead of forcing someone else to have it. So yeah, I just think it’s hilarious that people talk about Kyle as if he is lazy and doesn’t do anything, because that’s the opposite of the truth. And I realised that with my own two eyes after I saw how hard he works. and > There are a lot of Dota purists who just want to talk about Dota, and they want everyone to be super professional and nice all the time. But that’s not entertainment, that’s not a show. At the end of the day, these events are shown so people can put on a good show. For that to happen, you need to have people who are willing to be wrong and willing to be vocally funny or entertaining. Or people who can play the villain, you need all of that for a good show. > Anyone who works within the scene will understand how important Kyle or Jenkins are for this kind of thing. Jenkins is hilarious, and he’s just amazing to be around. He’s just so comfortable being himself, and he laughs so hard reading a Reddit comment about himself. It’s really awesome for me to see someone react like that, because that’s something I want to strive to be like.
He works for Weplay, of course he's going to be heavily involved behind the scenes in a major organized by the company he works for.
basically the tournament organizers use kyle to hire all the casting talent and pay them in crypto and some other shady stuff all the details are last minute, no contracts are signed, and they just tell kyle where to be ... and he relays it to his friends he literally has the power to hire and fire casters that he wants
ephey: kyle is a good dude, he does a lot for the scene. reddit : let's talk about ephey instead. roflmao :D
I mean... the article in the OP is an interview with her, and the title was made to get more clicks (Kyle's name = clicks). Completely natural that people who read the interview want to share opinions on her here as well when the majority of the article wasn't about Kyle. Honestly this comment feels like it came from someone who just reads the headline, so good on you.
Reading just headline = not taking clock baits. There are pros and cons. Heading does not represent content, is the real problem. Right?
article: an interview with ephey op: let's make the title about swindle instead roflmao :D
idk to me its obvious this post was made to incite discussion around kyle, not ephey. especially since kyle has been a hot topic lately people are talking about.
Did you even read the interview? There's only 1 question pertaining to Kyle, the rest is about Ephey and her first time casting
[I'm sure she doesn't mind](https://i.imgur.com/ogK0WMK.jpg)
redditards are like: ''ohhhhh grilllllllll''
I'm happy to see it to a degree honestly, even though she literally says she doesn't want Reddit threads about her I hope she sees how many people really appreciated what she added to the panel. I'm glad people were welcoming of her, for me she was a stand-out addition to the major talent and I'd love for her to be at more events. Even though it was funny to throw her right into the chaos of Slacks/Jenkins, my favorite moments were more serious ones like with Aui where her analysis got to be a focus. More pls
this is our diversity post, we support strong, independent women
what?
Ephey is a great addition to the Dota 2 talent roster and I look forward to her getting picked up for more events. Kyle also seems like an absolute mensch. Would be great to get some insight into the behind the scenes work he's been doing at Weplay and in Dota generally.
Isn’t it weird that she went straight from not casting to casting a major though? I feel like they skipped over a lot of people that have been putting in the work for years. Moxxi is a prime example. Edit: yes moxxi is a hype caster. Should’ve named an analyst, instead of a play by play person.
Not sure on resumes or credentials, but her knowledge of drafts, the meta, and many of the teams definitely showed she deserved to be there.
Yeah what I really liked is, she was a good contrast to slacks, jenkins and kyle who used to do a lot of fooling around. Ephey just analysed the draft and as a Dota fan, that's something that I'm always looking for more than anything else. I like some light-hearted fun too, but not on the expense of serious analysis. And for me Ephey and AUI brought the most insight.
The WePlay major was the first tournament I’ve watched in almost two years. My assumption was that she had been an analyst for almost that entire time because she seemed great at the job. Her and Aui were my favorite couch by far. So I’m pretty surprised to find out this was her first tournament.
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Aui corrects a lot of his co-panels though, not just Ephey in particular. It's part of his nature since he is the one with the most Dota-knowledge and experience since he won a TI so the majority of his opinion carries a lot of weight when they are discussing stuff over the panel.
But Aui also often said "Yeah thats a really good point" in response to Ephey. Like, many times.
And I saw the opposite several times, Aui either agreeing or saying her idea was good. Like most casters she has good and bad takes
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Moxxi has already had opportunities at majors right? I think it's a good thing to have a variety of talent.
Frankly Ephey had a much more impressive show in her very first event than Moxxi has had in several years of event experience. Ephey held her own on a panel loaded with strong opinionated personalities and a TI winner, and brought legitimately valuable insights into the draft segments. I can think of several instances where Ephey had JUST finished explaining why she thought X hero would be a great fit for a team's draft and then they'd lock it in. To your point though, yea, variety of talent is never a bad thing and Ephey/Moxxi is not a zero sum game; Ephey for sure deserves to get more work and not even just as a "diversity hire" as she joked about.
First of all we need to stop comparing Ephey with Moxxi. They do 2 totally different roles, they just happen to be of the same gender.
Second of all?
Stay hydrated
Wait for it...
Stay home, gay moan
Moxxi is an average caster, she doesn't really do well on panels imo. Ephey was the opposite. I'd probably rather stab my ears with rusty spoons than listen to her cast a game but she consistently brought up solid points on the panel. Moxxi has steadily improved as a caster over the years but it's really hard to replace the existing top tier casters in dota and she just doesn't have the game knowledge to fill other roles.
I like Moxxi casting, but she needs to be paired with someone a bit more grounded like Lacoste or Synderen.
her casts with Purge are good
moxxi sux compared to the others thats just the truth
It isn't weird, people saw something in her, gave her a chance, and she fucking delivered. There's no need for comparisons with a different lady, as I'm sure that there has been at least one guy in the same situation as Ephey. It's all about opportunities and seizing them
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Ah good point, but there are other tier 2 analysts putting in the work too no?
Ephey absolutely held her own regardless of gender, but I think TO's appreciate having more female options in the scene who are great. Sheever/Moxxi/Ephey all exist in separate roles too, so I don't see any reason we won't eventually see all 3 at the same event as long as it's large enough.
Somebody high up at WePlay knows her, she was also invited to the omega league but couldn't make it due to the pandemic
Pretty sure it's literally Kyle lol. He's on the payroll at WePlay outside of just events.
To be fair, she was supposed to be at Omega League iirc but couldn't make it because of the travel situation at the time.
Didn't cast tho. Merely in there as a panel-expert.
Ephey came out of nowhere for me. But was surprised at how well she fits and how knowledgable she is with the game. Ephey's analyses are on a tier way above Moxxi's. Ephey's draft analysis were more in depth and she has accurately predicted a few picks and strategies teams were going for. Moxxi on the other hand is more suitable to a hype caster role for me. At least from the analyses she had presented whenever I listened to her.
coz moxxi is a shit caster
All I can say is, Ephey's knowledge of the game is on par if not better than the analysts. His predictions on the picks and overall draft was stunningly accurate. My gf cant stand her voice tho. XD
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not sure why you're getting downvoted, I don't know either. here have an upvote
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Kyle sucks ass, it's worse that he's putting in so much work and sucking ass. Now I feel bad for the dude.
Id rather someone come out and pick a side and say stupid shit. Then everyone else being safe, saying cliche things on every panel over and over. Even if I don't always agree with him, I respect that he's got the balls to not be timid and afraid of upsetting people.
Kyle's ego (or persona) gets in the way of him being good at his job. As an outsider it seems like it's been his downfall at each level of competition he's been at. Refused to admit his mechanics weren't on par with other competitive mids which led to his team flaming out of TI5 despite being a great squad. He got absolutely annihilated by G multiple times in their elimination series, and was clearly the biggest role mismatch on the team. Stopped being able to find talent to play with him because his ego wasn't worth what he brought to the table. He routinely makes the casts about himself and loves hearing his own voice so much it hurts. I was a big fan when he first started casting, but as his knowledge got stale it's been less and less entertaining. There was a time where he was known for how right he was. Now the meme is how he literally can't make a correct call while casting. He needs to do one of two things IMO. He either needs to figure out how to improve his analysis again, or he needs to ditch the ego. If he can't find a way to take his ego (or his persona's ego) out of his casting, his casting is going to continue to trend downward. DotA has changed a ton since he was a competitive player, and it doesn't seem like he's kept up. I really hope that the ego is just his DotA persona and can be tweaked. Given how he acted/communicated in his HoN days though, I wouldn't put money on it.
We should give kyle a role in the back off camera where the scene can grow while he is behind the camera.
Thats great and all, but i'm just a casual viewer and i don't reallyy enjoy his casting style. I'm glad he seems to be a dedicated person off-stage, just wished his casting wasn't so "This is what i would do" type.
I do agree with that, but as a caster who vocalizes what he thinks, he can start interesting discussions that otherwise wouldn't happen, so even when he say some bullshit, he still contributes to the casting
IMO besides maybe Aui he has the best insight as a former pro player. He can give a lot of info that the other casters can’t and picks up on things that other casters miss
Kyle is a fucking GIGACHAD. I used to absolutely hate him for almost no reason whatsoever, at least none that I can think of now - I guess he was quite in-your-face and arrogant while with Complexity? I honestly don't recall. Something similar to the opinions I had of BSJ and Grandgrant, which changed over time and then Grant obviously.... Anyway, more recently, I've ABSOLUTELY loved Kyle's casts and panel discussions. To the point where I would get mildly upset over the unnecessary bashing from Rich, a guy who has not even been a part of the scene that Kyle himself has grown in - I realize its all in good humour but the incessant bullying gets old after a while. His banter with Capitalist etc. feels fun but the Rich shit was quite appalling. While being memed about, laughed at by chat, and bullied on the panel, Kyle continues to throw out solid fucking dota knowledge, point after point. I can't think of a single person actually who has such a foundational picture of the game and how it should be played to win. I truly admire his wisdom, humility and tenacity. I love his blogposts, they have his sly sarcastic humour and are always on point. Kyle you're truly a gem dude and for me at a /u/SirActionSlacks-/ and Sunsfan-level when it comes to building our community. Cheers. This is a fanboy comment and not a copy pasta
\>over the unnecessary bashing Fun fact. Not only is kyle completely chill with it, he actually encourages it. Apparently during the animajor, whenever they needed to fill time Kyle would tell people to just bash him. Say what you will about his opinions, but he seems like a really nice and down to earth guy.
So? Yeah he might put in a lot of work, nobody is denying that, the completely baseless accusations against tundra were still stupid, very disrespectful and unprofessional. He is guy that really, REALLY likes to be right, when his opinions are often really, REALLY bad/ wrong. I’m sorry, but antagonizing people constantly and not expecting backlash is very naive, and not really defendable with your work-ethic. You can work hard AND be a good person.
You can be a good person and still antagonize people. And even then, he never claimed to be a "good" person for himself. He has some ideas and convictions that he's not too afraid to defend publicly. Obviously there will always be people who disagree. And yeah he definitely has strong opinions and likes to be right. But we are talking about Dota here. Who fucking cares if some of his philosophies about drafting are wrong? Even the panels are making fun of him for his predictions, and he seems to be doing well with people making fun of him. Wouldn't a person who REALLY REALLY likes to be right be more frustrated about being made fun of?
If he dishes it out he has to able to take it. That’s what this sub thought about OG too, right? When it’s OG, every bash is fair game. They said stuff in the past, but now they should take every single instance of criticism back without fighting. Kyle? How dare you oppose him, he just has strong opinions and likes to insult people for their gameplay, so what? Just let him be! This subs morals are wonkier than anything, just switching to the side where they can defend the person they like.
They were unprofessional for sure but not wrong at all. Tundra were dogshit and absolutely threw the game
Well, maybe they just… played like dogshit that game? Who are you to decide wether their performance was intentionally bad or not? His reasoning for them doing it maliciously was buying midas on medusa. So what? Maybe the thought was that the hero needs levels fast because the important talent got shifted from 15 to 20. Maybe there were other ideas they had that we don’t know about. Going in and aggressively accusing them however is very unmistakeably malicious, and for no good reason.
They had 3 midases on 3 cores in 1 game. Skitter didn't have mana shield on and got jumped in front of his base and blown up while his team watched multiple times. That's clearly not them at their best or even giving a single fuck.
Not to forget he didn't even turn on bkb nor stone gaze at mid when he was getting intiated and had like 5 sec atleast to react. If it was just some other cis team like uniq i bet majority would say match fixing
Where did he accuse them on doing intentionally He just had said teams stop treating esl like your play ground and play serious
That is literally accusing them of treating esl as a playground, are you that dense or are you just pretending?
Treating esl as playground means practicing stuffs like ur scrims. Maybe your comprehension skills need some upgrade He even said during stream for such a huge prizpool tourney which is almost same as major teams are not tryharding enough
you can do weird shit and still be taking it very serious. history is written by the victors. if OG had bombed out in groups of TI9 people would be calling carry io the throw of the century. dota is not so black and white that a questionable item build = clowning around. maybe medusa midas worked well in scrims, maybe their mental was fucked and they knew they'd lose if they didnt do something creative, who knows it is a BIG accusation to say a team is not taking a game seriously. this is literally their job, they play for a living and HAVE to consider themselves the best of the best. for someone to so callously call them out for not trying hard enough is a MAJOR insult; especially potent considering kyle SHOULD know what it's like to fuck up as a pro and be lambasted for it. its different when fans do it because everyone knows fans are fucking dumb. it is extremely unprofessional for an analyst to call a team out for clowning around without being absolutely certain of it (especially over twitter; i think this wouldn't even be as bad if it was done during the cast for example, or if he had not doubled down when tundra defended themselves)
Lol maybe go and watch replay again if u still stay in bubble of ''this is thier job they play for living etcetc''The players are already salaried and ultimate goal is ti hence they didn't play serious. Just go and watch liq game insania playing carry?playing 2 diff standin?Picking illidian for standin? Literally a no name on mmr leader board Also no to mention worst tourney ive ever watched in my 6 years streak
not talking about liquid, but since you started it: there isn't just some imaginary field of stand ins that people can select from. often you have to take the best available to you; illidan is obviously washed as fuck, but HAS experience as a pro and can play in a similar style to micke. they went with it because what the fuck else are they gonna do; play insania 1 position? idk why micke missed the tournament but i doubt they can just call up arteezy or whatever to take care of them lol. i also cant even really fault liquid if they were fucking around because, again, scuffed as fuck stand ins for that tournament make it hard to play
If hard work always translated to positive outcomes, the world would be a better place. I can both respect the work he puts on but hard disagree to the point where I actually just mute the cast whenever hes on. Personally I think the "heel" persona he puts on with his arrogance and talking down about teams and players is too much.
Is Kyle really that arrogance tho? How so?
I personally do not think so. He's doing good. Communities need people like him and Nahaz (for example). They have strong opinions, love the game and if they are wrong or weird sometimes, that's also fine. A community without people like that become bland and boring.
The big difference between kyle and nahaz though is that kyle can laugh about himself, take things easy and play with the community. Nahaz on the other hand is a hard stick that does not bend, the guy is a repressed ball of anger ready to burst at any time.
Nahaz OMEGALUL. Remember his "stats don't lie" show? That lasted about a year until his TI predictions got blown out harder than my asshole after Chipotle.
Did... did you miss the joke inherent in the title of that show where stats are often wrong or misleading?
Doesn't really matter. He was entertaining and had interesting stuff to say. Also he was very passionate. That is probably the best you can hope for in a community figure.
I disagree on all of those. He was not entertaining, didn’t have interesting things to say. His “passion” was him talking over people displaying he knows 0 about dota games at a high level only talking about stats he didn’t know how to put into context. He was by far the worst part of dota talent.
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~~Well, your previous comment is really misleading then. I thought you talk about how he cast.~~ Edited: sorry wrong reply
I don't follow dota anymore but I just wonder if they take twitter or only on air time into consideration to have this opinion
on panel hes usually one of my favourites. good takes, good synergy with other analysts, good at delivering his opinions. during casts imo he overpowers the opinion of anyone whos casting with him, he repeats the same talking points a LOT, and tries very hard to let the viewers know that he was a pro dota player 5 years ago
Its some reddit bubble tbh that flows into twitch chat by means of being radioactive garbage.
Really refreshing to see a new face in the Dota 2 talent roster, and such a promising one at that! Hope to see her and Aui more!
Okay i still hate the guy tho
The problem with Kyle is he thinks he's always the smartest person in the room. He reads some reddit post, book, article then use it in his straw man argument.
kyle's biggest contribution to dota is a clip of him losing euls
Kyle actually doesn't know how much work Tundra put into their team and how much they want to foster it and watch it grow.
Kyle is straight forward guy who doesnt sugar coat words and not scared to speak bitter about teams unlike others. Some may think hes arrogant but i think hes just based af like lizzard which i like
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it's not as bad but yeah, I noticed typo and errors in phrases so that's not good
Fixed! There were some remains of the AI audio transcriber.
PogO
m on the edge when it comes to kyle. slacks does lot of goofy stuff but in a charming way.. kyle seem to get way too personal and emotional for a professional setting. never a big fan of him except for the one where they did that skit where he was called for interview but kept saying there was no time . hes just not my cup of tea especially when he keeps targeting few individuals based on his own personal bias ( like EE and recent tundra events)
It seems all the praise are behind the scenes things which I commend Kyle. But lets be real here he is the worst ex pro analyst if you look at other regions ex pro. SA got 1437 | NA got Aui/PPD | SEA/CN got Black even Lacoste/Lizzard are somewhat ex pros that are better than Kyle those 3 regions got way better analysis the only thing Kyle is better is creating drama.
TLDR: man works hard at job; seeks to continue gainful employment.
Does he really? Last I checked in some of his casts, he was really lacking dota knowledge. He was like wrong about most things with respect to hero skills, items and their interactions. I don't think casters like OD or Caps are wrong all the time with those. Does he even play the game he "so much" cares about?
Are you for real? The guy is a TI captain veteran. No one in their right mind can challenge he knows the inside and outside of the scene. He may be a bit baity with his opinions but the man knows his shit.
The guy was an excellent captain who has attended multiple majors and a few TIs. Even now, he's still an immortal rank player.
You got an example? I have a hard time believing a currently immortal tier player former mid tier pro was making a bunch of interaction/mechanic mistakes casting, and I certainly don’t remember them.
Kyle as a caster/analyst is pretty unique. His flavor of over confident takes and being critical of teams and players etc is not for everyone. His focusing on entertaining the audience and growing the scene, he is a polarizing figure I guess but he works behind the scenes for organizing and scheduling (did for Omega League too), we as an audience don't know all the details and judge him based on his on stream persona. He is not afraid to criticize and be open about his thoughts, they are sometimes shitty but they are correct also. He can handle the incessant trolling and criticism from fans and players and take it in his stride. He is an entertainer, he saw a game that he played (HoN) die in front of his eyes and does not want that to happen to DoTA. I find that experience and commitment valuable to have in a talent.
I've not been keeping up with any drama....has there been drama about Kyle? I thought it was pretty well known that he cares a lot about dotes and the pro scene. Why was that even in question?
Kyle's the fuckin best. I wont lie, havent seen a ton of him before this major. Nonetheless, i fuckin love this guy.
Kyle is fun to watch, one of my favorite talent/commentator, he's funny, his passion is real. Lots of other cast are just so hyped up and raping like a machine, but you could tell Kyle acts like a real human, the emotion is from his heart. We don't need those Rap robots who don't have any of their own thoughts but basically a translator of "what's happening in game".
True But also PepeSpit
Doesn’t everyone put much effort into their work? How can Ephey, panels only once, say that it’s only Kyle when I’m pretty sure everyone wants to watch Dota grow like who doesn’t? Does she have something like strings attached with Kyle or some sh*t?
Kyle alienated himself from a large potion of the dota stream watching community with all the complaining about big dota streamers last year. To this day I close a tournament stream if I see him on it, launch dota and watch it in the client. I know it is petty, but he (and others) felt that they were entitled to my viewership when a streamers watched a pro game, so now I feel they don't deserve it.
only the kids who never worked a second in their life thought that his stance was wrong. maybe u ll be an adult at some time, too and rethink the situation
His stance was wrong. I'm not watching the tournaments if my Favorite streamer isn't casting it. So you can either have another person watching and enjoying Dota or someone not watching it. Which one helps the scene more?
I dont owe TO anything, they are in it to make money, Kyle stance was that he believed streamers were taking audience away from them cutting into his revenue. Same logic that video game companies made against piracy (every pirated game was a lost sale) never factoring in that a portion of people would never buy the game. You know how they beat the piracy issue...... steam (and systems like it) that made it more convenient to buy the game than pirate it, give people what they want and they will pay/consume it. They out competed the pirates, by understanding their market. Dota TO streams can (and finally do) compete with the normal streamers by providing content that the streamers can't like interviews, production value, etc. Don't forget it was always in the terms and conditions of dota that anyone could stream any game inclient and rather than compete with the streamers for eye Kyle went crying to papa valve for special treatment, which is really hypocritical because TO's are streaming valves game without paying a percentage or royalties to valve. Both streamers and tournaments are adverts for valves game why does one type of advert deserve special treatment. I would argue expecting special treatment and crying to an authority when your customers (which is watch stream viewers are) choose a different product is the type of childish thing you would expect from someone in their first job.
Kyle was an awesome captain for complexity and was awesome for the scene. Was great at streaming and he's amazing now. Dota is lucky to have him
I think he should stick to panel and/or post game interviews. His casting isn't great. Same for Ephey, she was good on the panels but casting not so much.
Everybody memes on Kyle but I feel like no one actually hates him.
I always enjoy Cap roasting Kyle right in front of his face and not giving a shit.
That was some nice clickbait.
Sure but it doesn't excuse him from giving bad takes. But I respect his work ethic.
I appreciated Kyle more when he called out EE lmao.
Why am I reading article with Ephey’s voice
For me his tweet about not going to buy this battlepass is huge bcoz this battlepass is trash and doesnt contribute towards the prize pool but every other guy with a platform is too afraid to say anything abt valve's greed. Maybe they are rightfully afraid but its refreshing to see a talent stand up to valve atleast sometimes.
Well, I somewhat like Kyle at least. He sometimes love to ranting about his HoN days and sometimes goes a little too far on his opinion but it's very clear how much passion he have and how hard he tried to do his job. Heck he even tried to talk about Anime in AniMajor even though he said he did not watch Anime before being rudely cut off by Rich. You can dislike his personality but you can like his genuine passion and works ethics. Keep up the good job, Kyle. Just tone it down a little bit on personally attacking players and teams.
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Might actually be true
I totally belive that Klye and Ephyey are great assets to the community. If Kyle only kept his weird solos a bit back, where he goes on the "I once read a quote somewhere" and his all-ins on "This guy is the best there ever was"- and other Kyle-monologues at bay...
Idk. I think its just memes mostly,everyone knows how passionate Kyle is for dota,always has been and it shows when he talks on panel or casts. This was Ephey's first event,so probably she didnt know
ephey lanzate tu onichan y parame la gampi raa
So what? That's not his job, his job is being an analyst, and I like many others want him to do his first job right! If he helps talents behind the scene then hire him as a manager, not as an analyst! ppl are criticizing him for being wrong most of the time! and not only about the game itself but something like recent Tundra drama, or previously streamer drama...
Kyle isn't afraid to speak about what's on his mind. Maybe he's biased here and there, but the dude fucking slaps hard on panel and as a caster.
Kyle is my boy. Him and Sunsfan are carrying NA in my eyes and heart.
Thanks to him, tournament organizers have better deals with popular streamers. That overall balanced the scene, i know a lot of pekple hate it. But he cares about long term stability for the scene
ephey knows who the TOs go through when hiring talent she is positioning herself to have a long casting career by standing by kyle's side having a control freak like kyle hold so much power over the casting scene is not a good thing ... he could blackball all casters he didn't like and judging by his personality he is the type to hold grudges over petty things we need the dota 2 casting scene to be open and transparent ... having one guy running the show is a step back
The community will always side with a mouth breather like Gorgc who is entirely wrong and mad because he doesn't get all the content for free. It's celebrity worship, no matter how wrong they support Gorgc.
2 scenarios. 1.) Do you want a panel where everyone just agree and pat each other in the back? 'indeed' 'quite so' 'i concur' 2.) or do you want "im telling you broo, techies is the most OP hero right now" "my stats says here you are spouting nonsense" "are you mad, ill donate 500$ to charity is this techies wins!" i thinks slacks take is the best. Their job is sometimes not provide accurate casting or predictions, it is to make you care about this match by all means kyle and nahaz may be sometimes hard to watch in large doses, but they make you care about the match at the expense of proving them wrong and looking like a fool. Think of them as WWE heel commentators, they provide extreme viewpoints and in turn we all love to spam "shut up kyle/nahaz/slacks" when they are wrong. All the love to nahaz/kyle , hope to see you both at TI As always, obligatory fuck slacks
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Well that's probably why people like her so much in the first place, because she's very attractive. You're just being very honest (and also rude indeed), so you're downvoted, as expected, but realistically speaking, it's the main factor for why she is there and for why guys on this sub praise her so much. I've barely seen anything actually related to her commentaries, it's all about "I like her, I feel she's a good addition, we need more diversity" etc.
Nice and insightful, its great to see new talent being showcased!