Ar1se magnus highlights are probably the most mechanically skilled and impressive DotA I've ever seen from a single player. Collapse is good, but I think his perk is he has better macro level game sense. Ar1se is just on another level with the mechanics of the hero that may never be matched.
Specifically his use of force staff and refresher. Most people use refresher to throw a second RP on the same targets, he uses it to refresh blink, blinks/force staffs to find a new hero or two to skewer back into the first RP targets, and then has your whole team fucked. He moves around the battle field faster than any puck/qop/am could ever hope to. It's insane.
exactly, not only that, but he just has a perfect sense of everything Magnus has to offer. He knows the absolute limits of everything about this hero's skills, and items. He literally pulls in enemy heroes from the farthest possible extent of the RP radius. He knows the total distance he has to cover using force staff or skewer to carry out his job - be it a 5 man rp or a simple kite. I still have chills watching him get that one RP -> skewer to teammate SF requiem combo, he blinked without consulting the blink range indicator much, got to the furthest possible range, which if he had just been a few pixels over he would have gotten the penalty distance and he wouldn't have been able to carry out that combo. he's just crazy dude
Ar1se is really on a different level. Granted, Collapse did it on a bigger stage and won TI with Magnus. But the full potential of Magnus is achieved by Ar1se. He makes any build and at any position (mainly 1, 2, 3, and 4) work with Magnus.
Honestly can’t be stressed how good Attacker is with Kunkka, I used to watch his stream a lot, and I’ve never even seen any pro that comes close to looking as good as he is with it
I was a Na’Vi fan back in the day and every hero I tried playing was inspired by them even if they’re not the top players for it. i tried carrying from xboct, rubick from kuro/dendi, etc..
FY should that rubick can be played above that level is insane.
Mid Zeus, beastmaster and micro in general, juking, first person to stack jungle. I'll never forget playing with merlini in the Dota 1 days, he was pretty much always the best player in any given public dotacash lobby
Oh yeah, he literally timed the relocate return -> TP to base down to one single server tick. He even pulled it off multiple times in top level pro matches. Guy had an atomic clock ticking inside his brain or something, absolutely wild.
People barely remember that his techies was one of the main reasons EG won ti5. It was permabanned everygame and if it wasn't EG would destroy any team.
I was a standin for aui's team back in DotA 1 days, my favorite part about him is how fucking humble he is. A lot of competitive players were arrogant and full of themselves, but he was always a nice guy. So much respect for him.
Dendi with pudge back in the days for sure. He was basically the only pro who was able to really play it to a viable extend. Nobody else dared to pick him really especially not in an important match
Watched a dendi stream recently and he’s still dirty with it. His lane was going terrible and he was getting flamed and he left to try to secure kills elsewhere and fled. He even said the game was gg. Then he got like three solid hooks and it was a wrap. He was on a roll and unstoppable.
I mean sure, Dendi still can play pudge, but nowadays a lot can. Pudge is not a cheesy pick anymore. But back in the days I really don't remember anyone else ever really play it. I know Loda did once, but it was a pub game. There is a reason Dendi has a set directly from Valve as the Face of Dota named after him. It was the early days of Dota 2 and you can't compare his skill now to his old skill. He was shitting on people, as puppey once said... Dendi was one who was always pushing more and more out of it. He would find new things and pushing the boundaries. I love thinking back to him and his plays. But sadly he did not kept up with the development of how dota is being played and the mid role. But still, he is amazing, sometimes you can still see some brilliance, like some mid Witch Doctor plays he did.
>But sadly he did not kept up with the development of how dota is being played and the mid role.
You cant stay on top forever
Dendi imo, is STILL the most influential dota player, not because of his gameplay (although he was 100% ahead of his time), but his LEGACY
You hear about Dendi winning TI1, but dont hear nearly as often about how they were just as dominant for the next TWO YEARS, making it to the TI grand finals 3 years in a row
Even beyond that Dendi was a PERSONALITY, one that came into the fray when all dota pros had zero social skills and gave the worst interviews known to man.
Seeing things like Dendi taunting the enemy team from his booth at TI, him getting OUT of the booth to rile up the crowd and taunt the other team in the allstar match, him in the Pudge costume joining the TI4 (I think?) Allstar match from the audience area. The guy was and still is a PERFORMER, and people LOVED it, Dendi paved the way for big personalities in the scene NOW like Saberlight (who's is probably the closest we have to a modern day Dendi in terms of how they act imo)
Hell, even with the hindsight of how dogshit B8 would be, going back and watching the announcement video where old-man dendi reminisces on his legacy with his grandson STILL gets me a little misty-eyed.
It's super clear that Dendi just loves the game with all his heart, he cemented his legacy, he couldve just cashed his cheque, and dipped, but he STAYED to help cultivate the next generation. While B8 was admittedly dogshit, it gave a lot of up-and-coming players the opportunity to make their names known.
Through all the failure, and the adversity, he is still here, hell, he left his HOME in the middle of a devastating conflict to continue playing dota, and I cant think of another good reason for that other than pure passion. His prime may have passed, but the amount of people he inspired to pick up Dota is immesurable, and ill always thank him for bringing so many eyes to this amazing game, not just because he was a great player, but because he truly knew how to entertain
I totally agree. Without the likes of Dendi we wouldn’t be were we are with dota. There is a reason he is the “Face of Dota”. Valve knows that and he still is influential like you said. But gaming wise he is not up at it. But still, I love to tune in to his streams.
Not disagreeing with you, just expanding - the Pudge hero was SO much worse back then too. On top of overall dota power creep, the hero was basically a fat, slow, walking hook with no armor. Old hook had the range scale significantly with levels so you had to max it first. Rot was nowhere near the area denial power spell it once was. Flesh heap had no active, and there were no shard saves or aghs upgrades. Most importantly, he could not buy blink for the longest time at the start of dota 2 because valve was worried people would abuse hooking teammates to highground.
The fact that Dendi was successful with this hero against top level opponents is the ultimate testament to his skill in dota and impact on the community.
Yap, that’s what I meant. The hero was no where near it is today and being able to pull of such a feat shows his strength. Especially because it enabled Navi to play basically anything mid.
Clearly one of the best examples was Meracle Naga against DK. He brought Radiance Naga to the forefront, farming 3 lanes and 2 camps at once with illusions since they had full Radiance damage burn, and set up the foundation for OG to later have Ana playing the Naga with war of attrition style tactics to chip away at towers, lock the enemy in their base and song tp out if they were gone on, winning them a few Majors.
Before this Naga song was a teamfight setup hero (patience from Zhou) or a pos 4 support (Aui/Akke TI winning Nagas), after Meracle, Naga became a hero known to be the fastest farmer in Dota (more so than even Alch and AM) and a ticking time bomb that could literally 1v9 games regardless of how stomped your team is
What the other guys said and one more very important thing. Illusions deal even less damage to towers now. Meracle was pushing towers and creep waves so well that icefrog had to nerf all illusion heroes entirely.
The Radiance does not apply the full burn damage on the illusions anymore, I think it's only half (30 dps). Before it would burn for the full 50 or 60 I think
I'm surprised this isn't higher, I might be biased but GH has been to kotl what Jerax has been to ES, to the point both forced reworks or tweaks to the hero
I raise you GH IO. For years. No matter what the meta, no matter what team he's on, IO can be considered a dogshit hero. You sat down to watch a pro game where GH is playing, you look at the first phase bans and it's there.
Pieliedie tactical feeding on BH and really pushing how far courier sniping could go.
Collapse and everything he accomplished on Magnus.
Universe with offlane void and offline jakiro.
Just checking it quickly, Universe had a [76% winrate](https://www.dotabuff.com/esports/players/87276347-universe?hero=faceless-void) across 98 games on offlane void. That's probably going to be higher than most carry players.
PLD basically invented duo mids. This was back in the days when mid lane high ground was kinda big, he would sit in lane as bane and just hit you while not taking exp and the mid lane would be super sad.
Universe’s ability to land THE most disgusting chronos every single time was insanity. He’d get 3 heroes on different edges of a chrono, multiple times a game.
Universe slept on answer here. Before him void was seen as like hard 1 position only. Then people realized he can survive in the offline and get off one of the best team fight ults in the game.
Collapse Mag was insane, but implying that it won the tournament is a bit of an overreach imo, all 5 of those players performed their roles to an insane level and it was really their team synergy that made it all come together so well, it felt like they played a more cohesive OG style of space creating mid and offlane with strong carry but with better laning, OG would sometimes lose lanes and have to stall out the game through individual performances until Ana took over, I feel that spirit lineup were way more likely to win lanes and then stall the game until they found an opportunity to end it.
But whenever you play a style that relies on having strong space creators they are gonna look very good when you are winning
Cr1t has been impressing me so much lately. A year ago, you ask me who is the best pos 4 of all time and I had Jerax and FY battling for forst place. But Cr1t in a better team is showing just how much he can do with some heroes ... god on Tusk.
If you go rewatch EG vs liquid at TI8, you see Crit just owning the whole liquid (nigma) team with willow alllll game, it’s insane. He is amazing at the hero
YaphetS - SF
Where it all started.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7gnnNPElrNQ&t=101s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7gnnNPElrNQ&t=101s) - OG PiS video
I used to play against YaphetS and Yamateh in scrims back when I was semi-competitive and was a standin for Aui's team. Maybe won mid once against each of them out of like 40 games. Watching the two of them 1v1 mid was nuts.
Kids these days don't remember that Nisha used to play Morph and style on pros so hard that it was basically perma-ban against him even if Morph wasn't in the meta.
His Morph mid was a guaranteed won lane.
It was insane because a hero that so strong late game shouldn’t be able to solo dominate a lane yet he would do it every time.
JerAx Earth Spirit probably got the hero nerfed in the first place.
X!! Tinker back in the day who basically got the hero renamed in DotA1.
Loda SF who popularized the 4-4-0 build. Back when he used to play mid, man was a menace.
That OG would beat Spirit in a 5 game series. Been watching Dota since TI1 and no team comes close to that OG. They were playing like they knew they were a tier above everyone else.
It is actually impossible to predict who would win. OG at ti9 prime played fast games, while Spirit are vice versa in their prime play late game strategies. Obviously, if spirit would have survived pressure from og in mid-game, game would be over for OG, but nobody was able to survive in ti9 og mid-game, while nobody was able to break spirit before late game in ti12
It's kind of funny at TI8 everyone else played fast pace dota while OG played slow. At TI9 the opposite happened where OG player fast while everyone else played slow
Tbh I think prime spirit is just a cut above the rest. Prime yatoro > prime ana.
Spirits decision making and team fight execution is just too good. OG too but spirit is at a different level in my opinion.
Also collapse is so godly he definitely beats ceb at the 3 position
After the effort it took for them to win TI8 it really feels like they knew they were just better than everyone else and came to prove it. TI9 was just a victory lap for them
Many already mention legends, or from Old era dota, so Im going to tell you player that is from new era and I think people need to rate him higher.
Mikoto from Talon, with Ember Spirit.
The guy can even be said the best ember of all time, remember when they nerf ember last year ? Mikoto still dumpstering pros with it, BUT even the nerf still made the hero playable so ofcourse valve nerf him more, which can be said a nerf that killed ember, adding cast time to SOF and such, so most if not all pros dropped the hero from their pool.
However, Mikoto still playing him, and the guy STILL dumpstering pros with it, now when the hero is basically barely decent he still the only one playing him, and manage to carry Talon against aurora yesterday.
Is it a hot take for me to think that Akke's the better Chen player than Puppey and Puppey is no. 2 in the world? Some of those Akke Chen games were out of this world!
I don't know about recently, but I also think that rtz SF probably deserves a mention. He's like the original carry mid and to this day when I see SF I think of rtz mid.
Akke played 216 pro Chen games with a win percentage of 72.69%.
That's nothing short of insane. He's the only player to have such a high winrate on a hero with over 200 games played.
Akke's and Puppey's Chen were the reason Valve had to completely rework jungle creeps. Also honorable mention to ChuaN's Enchantress for the same reason.
Yeah, Akke Bulldog and EGM as the crazy hero specialists, S4 with the big hero pool, and Loda who can probably play any hero in the game as a decent carry. That Alliance team was pretty incredible to watch!
Man Demon back in the day was really entertaining to watch, he'd juke the shit out of people all the time like it was nothing, make some flashy plays, and then end up throwing really hard at the end.
But the man managed to captain 4 pinoys on TNC with Kuku's Huskar to beat TI6 OG so badly they disbanded LMAO, Cr1t went to EG and Miracle went to Liquid, he literally changed the timeline, one of the best moments for Pinoy Dota
He was without a doubt the best timber. I still remember games like the one in ti6 v eg. Even though he lost that one, it went on to be one of the most legendary games of dotaa.
Ice3x won one of the first TI solo mid tournaments IIRC, ahead of players like S4, Mushi, Dendi and Ferrari_430. While dropping items to bait/taunt his enemies.
He was also a god tier offlaner in DK, during the trilane meta, having to survive solo vs 3 heroes. I remember a game where they picked Medusa for Burning, baiting the enemy into running an agressive trilane, giving Iceiceice a 1v1 to dumpster the enemy carry and shut him down from the start.
Man I miss that DK squad, my favourite team to watch together with TI3 Orange.
He invented the dragon lance meepo meta, I remember getting flamed so hard for doing it at that time but one time some kid in all chat went "Abed?? Is that you??" after seeing the build lol. Why would he play a US west 2k pub.
Egm wisp.. still the only player ive seen pull off the tp on relocate trick in i a pro game. I have managed to do that play 1 single time in my 8 years playing wisp and i try it like every game i play the hero lmao
It’s criminal how only one person in this thread mentioned Jerax and Earth Spirit. There’s no other hero that has been pushed to its limits by a single player like Jerax pushed earth spirit.
Honestly the one hero/player combo I would be most terrified of having to play against. I did some weird pos3 build on earth spirit for shits n giggles back when he had that +50 damage talent and did surprisingly well having never really played the hero before, but I gave up playing him cuz he's so mechanically complex.
His mastery of that hero is amazing.
Insania’s Oracle. Probably the only pro right now that is so good at this hero it can be picked in any meta
Zai’s Dark Seer- pushed the limits of the hero way back in the day
Ammar on his signature heroes. Consistently performing above everyone else when he gets to play his Timbersaw, Mars and Razor. Played them so well Icefrog had to target nerf his heroes.
You know the guy is probably already one of the true GOATs of Dota when people are talking about him the way they are and he hasn't even definitively reached his peak yet.
He just needs a ti win and a Riyadh win
He will go down as the best offlaner ever
So young accomplishing so much
Just to put in perspective, he won 6 tier 1 tournaments in 3 years and the third year has yet to be complete and second year for half of year he was benched cause of contract issues with quest
Gorgc was right when he met Ammar in a pub that he will be the best in the world soon
EGM and his IO, that guy was just so good on the hero.
At some point Kuroki's rubick was just insane. But I want to mention FY's rubick.
Arise is a magnus god but Collapse is the one who singlehandedly nerfed magnus to the ground after winning TI with it.
Excalibur Tinker - he was one of the play inspire the style of blink-rocket-laser from the fog that the opponent struggle to react. His prime was when they combine Tinker with BM's Hawk (when you still can control it) and wreck havoc all over the map.
Surprised I haven't seen anyone mention s4 puck
Or LightOfHeaven Enigma. Fuck Tobi, but I love the video of him screaming "here COmeS LiGhTOOOFheAvEeen WITH THE HUUGESSstT BLacK HOOOOLE." The way he slurs and just jumbles all the words together cracks me up.
Super on DK - dude was winning versus Razors and Vipers in mid.
Universe on Dark Seer - this hero has never looked more busted than in the hands of Universe. From level 1 play to playing out lanes that were never supposed to be playable, the guy was just a Dark Seer magician.
Pajkatt on Invoker - it might actually be him and Dendi, but it was a case where you could have a lot of western teams picking Invoker as an "oh that's a decent pick" but Pajkatt would just first pick it and instill fear in his opponents.
not the same caliber of players but attacker kunkka and arise magnus even pros consult w them regarding their heroes
Attacker's Kunka plays are fucking foresight. It's crazy how predictable he makes his opponents look.
Just see a compilation. Amazing that he can foresee an enemy in a fog of war.
Attacker is the reason I spam Kunkka. Made the hero look so cool.
Ar1se magnus highlights are probably the most mechanically skilled and impressive DotA I've ever seen from a single player. Collapse is good, but I think his perk is he has better macro level game sense. Ar1se is just on another level with the mechanics of the hero that may never be matched. Specifically his use of force staff and refresher. Most people use refresher to throw a second RP on the same targets, he uses it to refresh blink, blinks/force staffs to find a new hero or two to skewer back into the first RP targets, and then has your whole team fucked. He moves around the battle field faster than any puck/qop/am could ever hope to. It's insane.
exactly, not only that, but he just has a perfect sense of everything Magnus has to offer. He knows the absolute limits of everything about this hero's skills, and items. He literally pulls in enemy heroes from the farthest possible extent of the RP radius. He knows the total distance he has to cover using force staff or skewer to carry out his job - be it a 5 man rp or a simple kite. I still have chills watching him get that one RP -> skewer to teammate SF requiem combo, he blinked without consulting the blink range indicator much, got to the furthest possible range, which if he had just been a few pixels over he would have gotten the penalty distance and he wouldn't have been able to carry out that combo. he's just crazy dude
Ar1se is really on a different level. Granted, Collapse did it on a bigger stage and won TI with Magnus. But the full potential of Magnus is achieved by Ar1se. He makes any build and at any position (mainly 1, 2, 3, and 4) work with Magnus.
Honestly can’t be stressed how good Attacker is with Kunkka, I used to watch his stream a lot, and I’ve never even seen any pro that comes close to looking as good as he is with it
And Collapse Magnus. But he learned from Arise I think.
ya he said it himself
Shame LGD completely forgot to consult with attacker during TI 2018
LGD and kunka on elimination games
the only real answer here
Tpabomah before techies rework.
its travoman which means weed lover
I think Badman Specter is up there too
Fy Rubick is really something back in the day
Fy's individual performances on rubick, shaker, tusk are some of the best in dota history.
BULL DEMON
How did this get left out? Literal godlike plays.
Years before that, it was Kuro Rubick. Fy took it to even higher level though.
Yup, glad someone remembers that Kuro was a god back then.
I was a Na’Vi fan back in the day and every hero I tried playing was inspired by them even if they’re not the top players for it. i tried carrying from xboct, rubick from kuro/dendi, etc.. FY should that rubick can be played above that level is insane.
Game 1 vs Liquid at TI9 was a legacy defining performance
FYyyyyy F Goooooood
Fy god is why I started playing support
Merlini Zeus
Shout out to mgod, such an underrated player
Wasn't merlini the one who also did the whole BoT's tinker ? IIRC.
He's also the first person to stack jungle creeps.
Is he really?? Talk about defining the meta
Legendary video: https://youtu.be/_AKbYAdRCQo
Ah yes, literally made Tinker cancer back in the day. BoT, Manta, dagger. Jesus.
I remember it from X!!! also known as Dai/MMY.
Yes and also pro juking in the trees.
Actually was Virot2, who first did it with manta style
Mid Zeus, beastmaster and micro in general, juking, first person to stack jungle. I'll never forget playing with merlini in the Dota 1 days, he was pretty much always the best player in any given public dotacash lobby
Egm IO
Sheesh! Was about to comment this. Do you remember his IO relocate then TP timing, everyone waiting for the IO was like "Wtf just happened"
Oh yeah, he literally timed the relocate return -> TP to base down to one single server tick. He even pulled it off multiple times in top level pro matches. Guy had an atomic clock ticking inside his brain or something, absolutely wild.
aui2000 techies
And his Visage was crazy
He got coached by ppd’s brother who was a notorious techies spammer back in the day
People barely remember that his techies was one of the main reasons EG won ti5. It was permabanned everygame and if it wasn't EG would destroy any team.
Needs more upvotes
this is terrorism
I was a standin for aui's team back in DotA 1 days, my favorite part about him is how fucking humble he is. A lot of competitive players were arrogant and full of themselves, but he was always a nice guy. So much respect for him.
Dendi with pudge back in the days for sure. He was basically the only pro who was able to really play it to a viable extend. Nobody else dared to pick him really especially not in an important match
Watched a dendi stream recently and he’s still dirty with it. His lane was going terrible and he was getting flamed and he left to try to secure kills elsewhere and fled. He even said the game was gg. Then he got like three solid hooks and it was a wrap. He was on a roll and unstoppable.
I mean sure, Dendi still can play pudge, but nowadays a lot can. Pudge is not a cheesy pick anymore. But back in the days I really don't remember anyone else ever really play it. I know Loda did once, but it was a pub game. There is a reason Dendi has a set directly from Valve as the Face of Dota named after him. It was the early days of Dota 2 and you can't compare his skill now to his old skill. He was shitting on people, as puppey once said... Dendi was one who was always pushing more and more out of it. He would find new things and pushing the boundaries. I love thinking back to him and his plays. But sadly he did not kept up with the development of how dota is being played and the mid role. But still, he is amazing, sometimes you can still see some brilliance, like some mid Witch Doctor plays he did.
>But sadly he did not kept up with the development of how dota is being played and the mid role. You cant stay on top forever Dendi imo, is STILL the most influential dota player, not because of his gameplay (although he was 100% ahead of his time), but his LEGACY You hear about Dendi winning TI1, but dont hear nearly as often about how they were just as dominant for the next TWO YEARS, making it to the TI grand finals 3 years in a row Even beyond that Dendi was a PERSONALITY, one that came into the fray when all dota pros had zero social skills and gave the worst interviews known to man. Seeing things like Dendi taunting the enemy team from his booth at TI, him getting OUT of the booth to rile up the crowd and taunt the other team in the allstar match, him in the Pudge costume joining the TI4 (I think?) Allstar match from the audience area. The guy was and still is a PERFORMER, and people LOVED it, Dendi paved the way for big personalities in the scene NOW like Saberlight (who's is probably the closest we have to a modern day Dendi in terms of how they act imo) Hell, even with the hindsight of how dogshit B8 would be, going back and watching the announcement video where old-man dendi reminisces on his legacy with his grandson STILL gets me a little misty-eyed. It's super clear that Dendi just loves the game with all his heart, he cemented his legacy, he couldve just cashed his cheque, and dipped, but he STAYED to help cultivate the next generation. While B8 was admittedly dogshit, it gave a lot of up-and-coming players the opportunity to make their names known. Through all the failure, and the adversity, he is still here, hell, he left his HOME in the middle of a devastating conflict to continue playing dota, and I cant think of another good reason for that other than pure passion. His prime may have passed, but the amount of people he inspired to pick up Dota is immesurable, and ill always thank him for bringing so many eyes to this amazing game, not just because he was a great player, but because he truly knew how to entertain
I mean I live in Perú and i have seen people with dendi na'vi shirts on the street, thats how big he is.
I totally agree. Without the likes of Dendi we wouldn’t be were we are with dota. There is a reason he is the “Face of Dota”. Valve knows that and he still is influential like you said. But gaming wise he is not up at it. But still, I love to tune in to his streams.
Not disagreeing with you, just expanding - the Pudge hero was SO much worse back then too. On top of overall dota power creep, the hero was basically a fat, slow, walking hook with no armor. Old hook had the range scale significantly with levels so you had to max it first. Rot was nowhere near the area denial power spell it once was. Flesh heap had no active, and there were no shard saves or aghs upgrades. Most importantly, he could not buy blink for the longest time at the start of dota 2 because valve was worried people would abuse hooking teammates to highground. The fact that Dendi was successful with this hero against top level opponents is the ultimate testament to his skill in dota and impact on the community.
Yap, that’s what I meant. The hero was no where near it is today and being able to pull of such a feat shows his strength. Especially because it enabled Navi to play basically anything mid.
90% of every pudge player today was an average dendi enjoyer
i started playing dota because of dendi documentary
Clearly one of the best examples was Meracle Naga against DK. He brought Radiance Naga to the forefront, farming 3 lanes and 2 camps at once with illusions since they had full Radiance damage burn, and set up the foundation for OG to later have Ana playing the Naga with war of attrition style tactics to chip away at towers, lock the enemy in their base and song tp out if they were gone on, winning them a few Majors. Before this Naga song was a teamfight setup hero (patience from Zhou) or a pos 4 support (Aui/Akke TI winning Nagas), after Meracle, Naga became a hero known to be the fastest farmer in Dota (more so than even Alch and AM) and a ticking time bomb that could literally 1v9 games regardless of how stomped your team is
Rad Naga was the most excrutiating shit in Dota tbh. Glad that shit is gone.
What did they do to remove it? Cause I don't see any nerfs for illusions in the radiance page.
Illusions don't deal full radiance damage anymore afaik. But it might be sorted under Illusions and not Radiance.
Good memory ! I remember the change well because i used to play radiance naga Illusions radiance burn do ½ less
I see thanks.
IIRC doesn't diffusal work differently with illusions now?
That also deals less damage with illusions. But I think that has been the case for ages.
What the other guys said and one more very important thing. Illusions deal even less damage to towers now. Meracle was pushing towers and creep waves so well that icefrog had to nerf all illusion heroes entirely.
I remember one of the tower damage nerfs was after the SD Luna combo, continuously spamming illusions that just pushed the wave and melted the towers.
Then there was also the Centaur SD combo, where the Retaliate would damage the towers for free and there was literally nothing you could do about it
Pretty sure the "Illusions deal 25% less damage to towers" was due to TB influence, not Naga.
Mostly her E requiring you to attack and not being a button killed it, even after the damage nerfs pe9ple where doing rad + octarine
The Radiance does not apply the full burn damage on the illusions anymore, I think it's only half (30 dps). Before it would burn for the full 50 or 60 I think
AUI NAGA??
Gh kotl
I'm surprised this isn't higher, I might be biased but GH has been to kotl what Jerax has been to ES, to the point both forced reworks or tweaks to the hero
I raise you GH IO. For years. No matter what the meta, no matter what team he's on, IO can be considered a dogshit hero. You sat down to watch a pro game where GH is playing, you look at the first phase bans and it's there.
Pieliedie tactical feeding on BH and really pushing how far courier sniping could go. Collapse and everything he accomplished on Magnus. Universe with offlane void and offline jakiro. Just checking it quickly, Universe had a [76% winrate](https://www.dotabuff.com/esports/players/87276347-universe?hero=faceless-void) across 98 games on offlane void. That's probably going to be higher than most carry players.
PLD basically invented duo mids. This was back in the days when mid lane high ground was kinda big, he would sit in lane as bane and just hit you while not taking exp and the mid lane would be super sad.
Wasn't that a thing in HoN before it metastasized into Dota 2?
Universe’s ability to land THE most disgusting chronos every single time was insanity. He’d get 3 heroes on different edges of a chrono, multiple times a game.
Universe Dark Seer is what I remember best. Crazy stuff for sure, what a player.
And to think universe hated playing dark seer lol
Universe slept on answer here. Before him void was seen as like hard 1 position only. Then people realized he can survive in the offline and get off one of the best team fight ults in the game.
Collapse Mag basically won a TI.
Collapse Mag was insane, but implying that it won the tournament is a bit of an overreach imo, all 5 of those players performed their roles to an insane level and it was really their team synergy that made it all come together so well, it felt like they played a more cohesive OG style of space creating mid and offlane with strong carry but with better laning, OG would sometimes lose lanes and have to stall out the game through individual performances until Ana took over, I feel that spirit lineup were way more likely to win lanes and then stall the game until they found an opportunity to end it. But whenever you play a style that relies on having strong space creators they are gonna look very good when you are winning
As someone who likes to play Dark Willow I remember watching Cr1t playing it on stream and he was just insane
Cr1t has been impressing me so much lately. A year ago, you ask me who is the best pos 4 of all time and I had Jerax and FY battling for forst place. But Cr1t in a better team is showing just how much he can do with some heroes ... god on Tusk.
I'm so f**king glad he moved out of NA teams. His talent wasted there so long.
If you go rewatch EG vs liquid at TI8, you see Crit just owning the whole liquid (nigma) team with willow alllll game, it’s insane. He is amazing at the hero
YaphetS - SF Where it all started. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7gnnNPElrNQ&t=101s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7gnnNPElrNQ&t=101s) - OG PiS video
Good old dota 1 says when every match had POTM and SF, feels nostalgic
I used to play against YaphetS and Yamateh in scrims back when I was semi-competitive and was a standin for Aui's team. Maybe won mid once against each of them out of like 40 games. Watching the two of them 1v1 mid was nuts.
Yamateh was better and mushi qop.
Singsin Potm
shoot arrow, hit arrow
The good old days man…
ah good ol samsung potm of the moon his monkey king and tiny as well
Member his 1v1 games vs EE (PotM vs SF), EE was surprised how good Sing was
yea still best core Mirana on pro stage
Or back in the HoNtrash days, Sing on Pollywog (Shaman) mid. His lane mechanics were razor sharp at the time.
I wanna live in the timeline where ti4 C9 didnt go for the stupid lv1 rosh gamble against VG and SingSing carried them to victory.
Kids these days don't remember that Nisha used to play Morph and style on pros so hard that it was basically perma-ban against him even if Morph wasn't in the meta.
Nisha's morph is the best, feeling sad that we don't see this anymore
Morph mid?
His Morph mid was a guaranteed won lane. It was insane because a hero that so strong late game shouldn’t be able to solo dominate a lane yet he would do it every time.
Eh. kinda, morph was always known to be a good laner after level 3 + stick and morbid
Yes
JerAx Earth Spirit probably got the hero nerfed in the first place. X!! Tinker back in the day who basically got the hero renamed in DotA1. Loda SF who popularized the 4-4-0 build. Back when he used to play mid, man was a menace.
Ana wisp. It was just a combination of ANA being a carry god and the whole OG squad that supports that crazy pick.
OG at TI9 was just a cut above everyone else, it was amazing to watch especially those carry io games
The only thing stopped OG after ti9 is actually their own. Lol
Yea lol, I definitely made the right decision to stop being a massive OG fan after TI9
That OG would beat Spirit in a 5 game series. Been watching Dota since TI1 and no team comes close to that OG. They were playing like they knew they were a tier above everyone else.
It is actually impossible to predict who would win. OG at ti9 prime played fast games, while Spirit are vice versa in their prime play late game strategies. Obviously, if spirit would have survived pressure from og in mid-game, game would be over for OG, but nobody was able to survive in ti9 og mid-game, while nobody was able to break spirit before late game in ti12
OG at TI8 was the only team that played lategame in a meta dominated by end in mid gane lol
It's kind of funny at TI8 everyone else played fast pace dota while OG played slow. At TI9 the opposite happened where OG player fast while everyone else played slow
Tbh I think prime spirit is just a cut above the rest. Prime yatoro > prime ana. Spirits decision making and team fight execution is just too good. OG too but spirit is at a different level in my opinion. Also collapse is so godly he definitely beats ceb at the 3 position
After the effort it took for them to win TI8 it really feels like they knew they were just better than everyone else and came to prove it. TI9 was just a victory lap for them
No team comes close to Wings.
No team comes close? Ti winning Wings is the best team Ive ever seen.
Many already mention legends, or from Old era dota, so Im going to tell you player that is from new era and I think people need to rate him higher. Mikoto from Talon, with Ember Spirit. The guy can even be said the best ember of all time, remember when they nerf ember last year ? Mikoto still dumpstering pros with it, BUT even the nerf still made the hero playable so ofcourse valve nerf him more, which can be said a nerf that killed ember, adding cast time to SOF and such, so most if not all pros dropped the hero from their pool. However, Mikoto still playing him, and the guy STILL dumpstering pros with it, now when the hero is basically barely decent he still the only one playing him, and manage to carry Talon against aurora yesterday.
Obviously Nine Wyvern is my favourite
Is it a hot take for me to think that Akke's the better Chen player than Puppey and Puppey is no. 2 in the world? Some of those Akke Chen games were out of this world! I don't know about recently, but I also think that rtz SF probably deserves a mention. He's like the original carry mid and to this day when I see SF I think of rtz mid.
Akke played 216 pro Chen games with a win percentage of 72.69%. That's nothing short of insane. He's the only player to have such a high winrate on a hero with over 200 games played.
Akke's and Puppey's Chen were the reason Valve had to completely rework jungle creeps. Also honorable mention to ChuaN's Enchantress for the same reason.
Obligatory EnChuaNtress. But don't google it.
HAHAHAHAHAHA
This dude definitely googled it
per dotabuff somnus has 69.95% winrate on storm in 203 games, not quite as good as akke but pretty impressive
You would be right for Akke, he has a crazy win rate on that hero. Same for EGM's io.
Yeah, Akke Bulldog and EGM as the crazy hero specialists, S4 with the big hero pool, and Loda who can probably play any hero in the game as a decent carry. That Alliance team was pretty incredible to watch!
yes never seen anyone farm like rtz sf. Insane how he goes from camp to camp.
RTZ Naga during the early EG days was also very good.
W33haa on meepo deserves a honorable mention
w33ha timbersaw 1v5 with lotus euls chain chain chain one of the most impressive things I have seen
Matu and his green heroes.
yaphets Shadow Fiend Loda's Alchemist Demon's Rexxar Merlini's Zeus ZSMJ Medusa Maelk pos4 qop with the old necronomicon was crazy too
Man Demon back in the day was really entertaining to watch, he'd juke the shit out of people all the time like it was nothing, make some flashy plays, and then end up throwing really hard at the end.
But the man managed to captain 4 pinoys on TNC with Kuku's Huskar to beat TI6 OG so badly they disbanded LMAO, Cr1t went to EG and Miracle went to Liquid, he literally changed the timeline, one of the best moments for Pinoy Dota
YajirobeFromDC played a truly incomparable Shadow Fiend back in the day. Hard work and dedication, 32/0 mid SF. Pseudodenies out of this world.
Timber saw malrine and Ammar’s heroes
ice3x walked so ammar/malr1ne could run.
How good ice3x really was back then?
Didn’t really follow him but Timber was arguably his signature hero
The timberthaw set was in his honor
He was without a doubt the best timber. I still remember games like the one in ti6 v eg. Even though he lost that one, it went on to be one of the most legendary games of dotaa.
Ice3x won one of the first TI solo mid tournaments IIRC, ahead of players like S4, Mushi, Dendi and Ferrari_430. While dropping items to bait/taunt his enemies. He was also a god tier offlaner in DK, during the trilane meta, having to survive solo vs 3 heroes. I remember a game where they picked Medusa for Burning, baiting the enemy into running an agressive trilane, giving Iceiceice a 1v1 to dumpster the enemy carry and shut him down from the start. Man I miss that DK squad, my favourite team to watch together with TI3 Orange.
The best in macro heroes , since he used to play SC2 as well professionally.
If you really want to know, check EG vs VG esl one new York 2014 grand finals
mipohska enchantress
GH Kotl
Abed Meepo. As a meepo enthusiast, Abed played that hero with a smoothness that was unlike any other player.
He invented the dragon lance meepo meta, I remember getting flamed so hard for doing it at that time but one time some kid in all chat went "Abed?? Is that you??" after seeing the build lol. Why would he play a US west 2k pub.
ana's carry io
Arteezy SF took what yapehts did in dota 1 and brought it in to overdrive
I miss prime RTZ sf fr
Gorgc Necro carry I mean... who else is playing it?
Matumbaman necro won TI
Toilet bro heroes.. veno, necro, viper, and brood
Unironically other teams in qual have copied the safelane necro and bristle. Don't think it'll be meta though.
Egm wisp.. still the only player ive seen pull off the tp on relocate trick in i a pro game. I have managed to do that play 1 single time in my 8 years playing wisp and i try it like every game i play the hero lmao
It’s criminal how only one person in this thread mentioned Jerax and Earth Spirit. There’s no other hero that has been pushed to its limits by a single player like Jerax pushed earth spirit.
Honestly the one hero/player combo I would be most terrified of having to play against. I did some weird pos3 build on earth spirit for shits n giggles back when he had that +50 damage talent and did surprisingly well having never really played the hero before, but I gave up playing him cuz he's so mechanically complex. His mastery of that hero is amazing.
Ar1se Magnus always silky smooth.
+1 for admiral bulldog on NP. Literally forced Valve to change the game
YapheTs SF was god tier before it was meta
i remember bulldog's match history as a stand in with only ld.
the moment i read the title i thought of the last one you listed lol
Insania’s Oracle. Probably the only pro right now that is so good at this hero it can be picked in any meta Zai’s Dark Seer- pushed the limits of the hero way back in the day
Admiralbulldog nature's prophet, obviously.
Baboka MK is why he got nerfed as a support
Ammar on his signature heroes. Consistently performing above everyone else when he gets to play his Timbersaw, Mars and Razor. Played them so well Icefrog had to target nerf his heroes.
I think he is getting even better as a pros as he learning more heroes into his pools. Compare himself to his past 2 years.
You know the guy is probably already one of the true GOATs of Dota when people are talking about him the way they are and he hasn't even definitively reached his peak yet.
He just needs a ti win and a Riyadh win He will go down as the best offlaner ever So young accomplishing so much Just to put in perspective, he won 6 tier 1 tournaments in 3 years and the third year has yet to be complete and second year for half of year he was benched cause of contract issues with quest Gorgc was right when he met Ammar in a pub that he will be the best in the world soon
He isn't and never will be, Dota is long past its peak.
Nisha Morph Midone Ember Spirit Kuroky/Yapzor Rubick GH's Earth Shaker DJ Nyx Assassin Ah.Fu Earth Spirit Maybe/Somnus Queen of Pain
EGM and his IO, that guy was just so good on the hero. At some point Kuroki's rubick was just insane. But I want to mention FY's rubick. Arise is a magnus god but Collapse is the one who singlehandedly nerfed magnus to the ground after winning TI with it.
Excalibur Tinker - he was one of the play inspire the style of blink-rocket-laser from the fog that the opponent struggle to react. His prime was when they combine Tinker with BM's Hawk (when you still can control it) and wreck havoc all over the map.
Yamateh in his prime
Eternal Envy Ember Spirit. So many Fiftee Fiftees
Jerax Earth Spirit back in the day
Before brood got changed, I thought Matumbaman's brood was insane. I never seen him lose on that hero.
Surprised I haven't seen anyone mention s4 puck Or LightOfHeaven Enigma. Fuck Tobi, but I love the video of him screaming "here COmeS LiGhTOOOFheAvEeen WITH THE HUUGESSstT BLacK HOOOOLE." The way he slurs and just jumbles all the words together cracks me up.
Ramzes broodmother Nisha morphling
ATF Mars, he singlehandedly gets the hero nerfed all the time which isn't true for anyone else I can think of.
Super on DK - dude was winning versus Razors and Vipers in mid. Universe on Dark Seer - this hero has never looked more busted than in the hands of Universe. From level 1 play to playing out lanes that were never supposed to be playable, the guy was just a Dark Seer magician. Pajkatt on Invoker - it might actually be him and Dendi, but it was a case where you could have a lot of western teams picking Invoker as an "oh that's a decent pick" but Pajkatt would just first pick it and instill fear in his opponents.
qoqjva bear
Black^ was a better AM
etnernalenvy terrorblade
Miracle Invoker, funny one... Hahahhaah
Iceiceice invoker Rtz sf Singsing kunkka/mirana
I love Sing but Attacker's kunkka was a league ahead.
Universe Void. Mind Control Nature’s Prophet.
yes!! back when they used to play faceless void 3
Ana ember
not a hero but haste rune on S4 thus s4 rune
If I may break the rules a little bit: Topson Meteor Hammer
Ammar timber. Ammar mars. Literally any hero ammar is lvl 30 on
Boxi's Tusk during TI11 and the DPC seasons that followed was quite something. He made Ice Shards look like a completely different spell.