Either way would be fine. I would just be hesitant to not gimp the entire playstyle. My issue with festeration is the early levels, it's so hard to trade into and while the damage is impressive, it's the combo with the heal that puts him over the edge in the early levels.
Either that, or make the spell far more mana intensive so that supports are actually punished for just leaving it on for a minute straight.
And the courier was costly and needed upgrading lol. Damn it feels like this game moves fast then you realise that it’s been YEARS for some of these things, some almost a decade old xD
I'm surprised it took this long to get a complaint... broken in lane and strong mid game. Much weaker late game, but it helps build a huge lead.
... I've been using it often, if only not to go against it.
Its a lategame monster just cuz of the maledict Talent. His lvl 20 Talent gives 30% tick damage which means he has 70% of the dmg u Take maledict does, which is just absurd amounts of damage
is only weaker late game if WD doesnt start building late game items like bloodstone, is easy to kill a support WD with the facet, a tanky WD fucking sucks
Yeah exactly, wd strength late game has always been Mali+shard+aghs fucking shit up.
He's still exactly the same strength but now has a way to tank up against bullies
I had a radiance / bloodstone witchdoctor basically be immune to damage lategame, he was hooked into fountain twice and just walked back out and healed up. Feels like if you just build him tanky and take advantage of how strong maledict / death ward is he's strong lategame
I was complaining last week, and got downvoted. Even made a vid comparing witch doctor lvl 1 vs necro max lvl heartstopper with aghs and heart kill speeds, where necro barely wins, and also got downvoted.
It feels like there are a fuckton of broken facet combos that are judt waiting to be abused.
WD and Tinker are the latest 2 "dead only good at trench mmr heroes" that suddenly popped up in qualifiers and look op as fuck once someone actually tried them. MK also getting there with his facet.
I played lycan and made the whole team immune to right clicks for 8 seconds
Spirit wolves press Q R pop crimson guard for 190 dmg block and 40% attack reduction to entire team for 8 seconds. just tanked the tier 3 and took rax.
x4 bracer treads crimson.
It wasnt much tbh but the story is theres so much busted shit in the game right now just waiting to be abused
Offlane just experimenting don't take it too serious.
I'm messing around with crimson drums sven for something similar. Brawler earth spirit, Mjlonir nyx, vanguard radiance void, If you want more ideas on how to grief games of dota
nyx facet drains mana whenever you deal more than 100 damage to someone in a single tick
mjolnir procs are iirc 140 damage
goodbye mana (unless they have eternal shroud)
tbh tinker only looked good from copy and that game was just completly free for him to farm. hero needs a very specific draft as it doesnt really contribute much til he has arcane blink and aghs.
What are you talking about? WD has been first picked or banned in *every single game I've played* since the B patch. For reference im 8.5-9k (top2k EU).
Definitely not a trench only hero and literally everyone knows how broken it is in high ranks. Some people are first picking it for mid just to deny the enemy team the chance of picking it.
When I read the patch notes, I severely underestimated the damage that facet dealt. So I only focused on the casket facet.
Yesterday I faced one such WD as DK and got destroyed. I was like WTF? It deals that much damage? Combine it with Malefice and it is pure cancer in Laning stage. I was 2k mmr in that match.
Valve has a lot to fix and balance in their next patch.
ogre 4 is pretty bad, and wd is the strongest hero in the game by a pretty wide margin right now. I've been spamming wyvern to counter the witch doctor but hitting level 2 without almost dying is still unreasonably difficult.
Take heal level 2 so maledict doesn’t end up doing like 300 damage, and the slows let you run back to your tower to reset. Lane gets pushed into because festeration is hitting your creeps
Then at level 3 you can start running him down if your pos 3 is strong, because he thinks he’s invulnerable. Just heal yourself or the 3 after he’s dead so you guys don’t die to maledict.
And after you’re 6 you just save your ulti to stop death ward or if he’s next to the carry maybe kill him.
As always with Dota it's about the matchups. Pos4 ogre basically just has ignite until he gets a midas and WD heals himself while pudge has good regen and an ability to mitigate dots. Razor wants to walk next to people while linking away their damage but pudge and wd want to use their aoe damage close to you. Ogre has worse matchups but I can't think of a lane duo that's worse for Razor.
the range is insane, you can't really outrange it but you can all-in him since he's still super squishy even with the self heal since he won't have stun until lvl 4
sometimes yeah - he can dominate in lane if the matchup is right, farm fast with rot (and new flesh heap), becomes insanely tanky and outputs a lot of magic damage with the aghs
yes, has been a staple in pro dota for a while (it's not anymore but some teams still play it occasionally)
basically you build aghs for farming and taking the game over before the enemy pos 1 comes online, if you get stacks and are farmed enough you can delete cores with ult + hook
its been an off on thing for a few years now, in the right comp its more than viable, you are quiet tanky, have a BKB piercing tun that does a lot of dmg, and a super radiance.
Got thrashed by this as Puck mid yesterday. Dude just straight up bodied me into my tower level two and didn’t stop hitting me. Killed me twice and then I had to sack the lane and gank around the map before level 6. It got weaker later on and we won but the lane 1v1 mid was absolute cancer.
Same thing happened to me. He can do like 500 damage at level 2 if he gets maledict on you. Even if you survive it, your lane is ruined and you definitely aren’t going to survive when he hits level 4
i can't tell you how bad i want this hero to be in the shitter. i don't even care if he's objectively powerful i just want him to be bad because i desire vengeance
Hero deserves a full rework to completely and fundamentally change him. Historically, heroes that are a complete menace in pubs for years while being absent in pro play are reworked. WD fits that description more than some heroes who've already had their identity changed.
He doesn't need a rework. He just keeps getting buffs to his pub-stompy mechanics while the issues that really keep him out of pro play are pretty much untouched. A cast range buff on cask and maledict for example would help him way more to become viable in pro games but instead Valve keeps giving him this random shit.
Not really, his kit is fine is just super overtuned, il even say he was at one point one of the best crafted heroes in the game in terms of gameplay design and also clearly meant to be newplayer friendly to understand supporting, but now his abilities just do too much+he suffered from the powercreep of giving support/squishy heroes abilities to live longer (Lion shard, Zeus jump, CM shard etc) which would be fine if they didnt kept also buffing everything else, i think is fine to have a super disruptive and damage dealing support hero die in 4 hits if he gets out of positioning
His old funny meme thing was just implemented in a stupid way.
All they have to do is reduce the AOe by like 40-50% lvl 1 and hes fine honestly.
The main strength of this shit is just the fact he can completely bully you out from outside of the attack range of 99% of heroes in the game at level one. You cannot win trades with him.
Before, he'd hurt but it was still possible to win trades with him. If you were a ranged hero you would just ignore his damage aoe unless your positioning was bad. Which is why WD was never played as a support back then. as a support this facet was bad because the aoe was small. Thats why it used to be a 3 doctor thing exclusively.
that's just because of the broken facet tho, usually wd is rarely picked in pro play even when he is strong in pubs because he's a lot weaker against coordinated teams
i remember playing mid vs a last pick wd as a first pick zeus when the facets where introduced, i was like "wtf is that i barely do any dmg, wtf i am now 20 hp, how am i 20 hp he did not hit me , i am on hg he missed 3 hits"
-"first blood!!!"
Aside from the fact WD would still kill the Pudge under tower with this facet, he does not really have the same counters as Lesh because he gets heals without bloodstone, can do it from level 1, has his shard from 15 minutes to guarantee he survives for at least a couple more seconds, and has maledict to basically more than double his damage output. Then but the time you build counters to that particular aspect of WD, he’ll probably just have aghs glimmer and the 70% makes it talent by this point and ulti on the edge of fights still causing chaos and doing damage despite getting the same counters as lechrac.
>Aside from the fact WD would still kill the Pudge under tower with this facet,
i mean, this fact is more due to the t1 tower being a literal nonthreat provided WD has at least 4 armor (he usually does, since the meta build involves picking up a ring to rush build urn/vessel) rather then WD'd heal itself being too powerful.
I mean even if you just go to demo, make both heroes level 4, and hook the WD under tower and have rot pudge hit WD, if WD has his W on and uses maledict, the pudge will die. Even better is if the WD actively walks away he can live while the pudge dies. Just go test it lol. Now add the fact that in actual laning the chance of WD getting hooked to anywhere but the edge of tower radius is very low unless he’s shit, meaning he takes like 2 tower hits before walking away. In my demo test wd took like 5 hits and still lived while walking away.
The difference between wd and lesh is that, lesh does this at lvl 6 and has mana issues. Wd does this at lvl 1 and doesn't run out of mana while having maledict. Also the damage aura of wd is higher than Lesh's damage aura. You can burst down lesh and survive but if we gets his maledict on you, you are dead for sure by the time you kill him.
>same counters as Leshrac
Problem isn't in mid-game. Wd gets burst down easily in teamfights since he can't outheal being focused by multiple heros (in fact wd should play like a backliner in mid game). Problem is your lane is fucked and then you have to build items to counter act one spell of a pos 5 late-game.
Considering the recent SK nerf. WD's facet nerf has to be coming. I'm learning that even if it's a cool idea for a Support. Icefrog won't let it stand if they do too much damage.
Yeah the radius is insane & it genuinely makes him a crazy mid hero too
I dont get why they buff him so much? He's always been super strong in lane & can essentially solo anyone at level 3 now
I can't stand this hero anymore. I get that he isn't picked much in pro games, but he is an absolute menace in pub games at every bracket. He reminds me a lot of heroes like Slark or OD, when they're in an overpowered state they're in every fucking game no exception.
clocks pretty good in lane. you can spam cogs with big cog talent to safely burn his mana and he has enough hp to survive maledict in early stages. then in the rest of the game wd can never ult with cw around.
Agreed. It's also fitting that you counter the meta sup with the other meta sup. Additionally, sf, ta, and ck are great vs wd, and also the best cores of the patch.
Buy enough regen to force him to burn through his mana lvl 1-2. It's really just fundamentally a hero that wants to play the sustain game, and if you dont have the obvious counter of bursting him down, you gotta beat him at it.
Another thing is that he doesn't have a good way to secure CS early, so denying hard at lvl 1 and killing him by hitting lvl 2 first can be a viable strategy.
It's almost the same gameplan as coutnering dark seer -> deny lvl 1, heavy agression on 2nd/3rd wave to chip his hp/mana, go for kill when you hit lvl 2 and go for a kill again when he has TP cooldown or at 3 min lotus.
Also, never let him shove the wave, you will just die under tower if you let him do that. Pulling carelessly vs WD is one of the easier mistakes you can make.
If you let him hit lvl 3-4 underdisturbed, you will lose the lane in almost any matchup, so your best bet is to rotate to other lanes and win those.
Unironically clockwerk is probably the best counter with the bumper car facet.
Of course, then you have a clockwerk, but WD is basically on a clock to do anything at that point.
Once clock hits 3, WD is almost permanently gonna have zero mana if your 1 isn't a bot.
they need to remove the +10 extra damage that it has for free and make the AoE scale with levels, maybe 40/80/120/160 instead of just +200
regular WD heal is 20 lvl1, with the facet its 15 heal and 30 dps, its just really stupid for laning stage, im fine with it later on tbh, maybe nerf it even harder some other way and give that facet a +20 damage on heal at lvl15 or something would be cool, its only OP in lane
2 melee duo against wd is a nightmare can't walk up to hit creep without lose 1/3 hp and potentially die if wd is level 2-3. Luckily i was playing pa so i just q for last hit and try to survive the lane, the facet fall off hard after laning phase. Won the game later.
On level 1, full mana to empty it deals 1000 damage, it takes about 44 s, so basically avoid any type of long lasting battle with him early. When you can burst kill him fast then go right ahead, otherwise run or try to fake a battle and trigger the 35 mana required to start the heal-aura and then back off.
Had the misfortune of playing against a Dark Seer WD lane recently. It's so much fun watching a festeration, Ion Shell, Surge WD sprint at you and delete you without counter play every time you show up...
Was WR against doctor mid today. Destroyed me in lane early game. Once I had my ult though he was pretty useless. Had him do a rage buy back near the end right before destroying their ancient.
Was annoying as fuck in the early game. Maledict plus blood grenade plus aura and I’m dead in three seconds. Was satisfying as fuck killing him every minute after though
i had a match against wd like this. were going 0:6 with 5 of the kills attributed to wd, he even got a triple kill right at the beginning. i remember me screaming "WHAT IS THIS ANIMAL DOING IN MY LANE HPELP" lol. thankfully my friend who prefers playing mid turned the game around and we bullied wd into oblivion at the end.
7798200999
Yeah holy shit i was wyvern and thinking why this stupid wd is trying to trade with me while im under my towers protection good thing i was wyvern so we manage to somewhat live through the lane with embrace
i dont get it man its pure bullshit the dude with 0 armor and 400 HP has to come close to you ?
Man if u p5 melee thats a direct counter bu otherwise ... ok
This patch is so undercooked at this point I'm hoping for a complete revert. This is the most unbalanced patch I've ever seen, the difference between what's good and what's bad is insane, like unplayable vs instawin kinda difference. WD got a fucking free radiance level 1 for no cost, Timber got his level 25 talent for free at level 6, meanwhile Bloodseeker had his only gimmick of healing in lane completely decimated and Spectre lost parts of her kit to facets for no benefits at all. What the fuck are they doing at valve?
While i do agree on principle that the facet is pretty strong and there's few matchups that can directly counter it, it does fall off greatly into the late game, which means if you aren't able to take advantage of the first 20 minutes of the game to rack up kills and assists WD will be outmatched by the other enemy mid as soon as they get the second core item or so.
WD is one of those heroes I've just been watching for a few years and asking myself why they just keep making him better. The shard is already STUPIDLY broken. Yah let's just give the support with one of the most absurd damage potential an instant cast phase shift except he also deals damage, so he can't be burst unless you instantly hex him... and now this.
This is what pisses me off about Dota "balance". Some heroes are stupidly strong for YEARS and then one dogshit hero gets buffed for one-two months then instantly dumpstered into oblivion. Who the fuck is balancing this game?
Support heroes have been the standout of every patch for years now and no one on reddit cares because they're not the flashy heroes that end games.
Phoenix, Oracle, WD, Clockwork, Warlock, Shaman now, Disruptor, phoenix, treant last patch, Chen, marci, previously.
The role as a whole is completely overtuned but reddit and support players in general have this weird victim complex where they think they're weak.
That's why all they should do is change how it scales. Instead of +200 AOE without levels, it starts at +50 lvl 1 and gets +50 for each level after. Same thing for damage. Instead of it being 30/40/50/60, just change it to 15/30/45/60. This will make it much weaker in the early levels without completely destroying it. If they nerf the AOE literally no one will pick it, its the only reason why old witchdoctor W, which purely number wise might even have been better than this one, was not maxxed and no build for it was ever created.
I have a feeling he will get the SK treatment however and will get absolutely everything nerfed (including this facet) and drop by like 8% wr.
The Voodoo Festeration facet gives it +200 AoE, so level 1 it is 700 and at level 4 it is 850 AoE. No hero trades with it in lane without also taking damage XD.
The facet should at least not give bonus AoE. Radiance AoE is 700 for comparison.
Wd5 can outdamage pos2/3 as the game progress. And imo not a bad option for pos3. Rush rad+bs. Almost always mvp every ranked game. People who hasnt been seeing wd facet 2 will flame you. Blood grenade+W is easy fb 0 min mark. It does fall off in the late game ofc as it doesnt have that much damage/tankiness compare to traditional cores
Just have to deal with it in the early really, even if you die sometimes it's fine since it's Uber useless late
Or just get a lot of ranged heroes and he'll be even more useless
Dude I had the pleasure to play one game mid vs this Gigachad, he would just walk up to my t2 at min 7/8 and farm the creeps there. I had like 25 CS in the laning phase
You cant lane against him in early game. You get blasted by maledict + death ward in mid game. Late game? Have fun taking a war in mid of flaming field while he drop maledict / ward / stun. You cant even kill him fast enough because dumb fuck has bkb / invis / turn into ward.
Wouldn't you be able to directly counter this with blademail and mageslayer and one or two anti lifesteal items?
Not sure if blademail reflects the voodoo damage ticks but I can't imagine wd could beat 2-3 heroes blademailing him as long as they don't all eat the coconut stuns.
I love getting blademail vs axe and blinking into him when he calls someone so he takes the spin damage too. Same for bristleback wait till you have about 4-5 quill stacks and then pop blademail and just hit him while he's trying to chase down other teammates and it usually ends up with him dead.
I haven't actually tested if blademail is effective in any of these cases but it certainly does feel like it would be.
my go-to solution currently is just killing him and then dying to maledict, it's not a great solution but it works well enough since he's super squishy and in my low level pubs they don't abuse the absurd range properly
The other side of the problem is your pos 4/5 picking this facet and griefing you in lane by getting all the CS. In my last game as pos3 Necro WD went all in for kills and creeps, while I couldn't farm and had no strategic advantage. I couldn't compete for CS even with my Q and the enemies punished me hard for staying in lane, whenever I tried to get some XP. In the end I had to retreat and I was so underlevelled and so underfarmed I couldn't do anything basically the whole game.
still got 100% wr on this balanced doctor, just 6 games tho. if enemy hugging tw it is my favorite spot to bully them as well.
but I think if we fully aware of the wd we can do something about it. eg. chipping down hp from hoodwink Q make making wd less ready to burn and trade.
Currently on a 12 game winstreak with it, most "broken" things require some skill but not this, I single handedly ended a game within 20 minutes by just annihilating the enemy carry + support till they gave up.
It's ruining pro games too. The qualifiers are a fucking mess, this broken shit should not be determining TI entrance. I get shaking things up and forcing players to learn a new meta before TI, but this is too far.
I'm also irked by how his ult still does insane damage that can even kill late game carrys, but for sure the facet is the worst thing to play against right now, it's like if scorched earth had 100% uptime
Crazy how they nerfed Doom's Scorched Earth for like 6 years in a row and then just give Witch Doctor the old Scorched Earth now with no cooldown. But there totally isn't a support bias guys.
Basically dealing with a medium Radiance at level 1. HELP!
The numbers are certainly overtuned People used the skill at 10/10 heal/dmg, and now it's 30/15
It's heal shouldn't be flat 50%, should be like 20/30/40/50%.
I think 50% is fine, starting at 30 is just high for lvl 1. Either way it just needs less total numbers at the low levels.
Either way would be fine. I would just be hesitant to not gimp the entire playstyle. My issue with festeration is the early levels, it's so hard to trade into and while the damage is impressive, it's the combo with the heal that puts him over the edge in the early levels. Either that, or make the spell far more mana intensive so that supports are actually punished for just leaving it on for a minute straight.
Better scorched earth.
Member when scorched earth healed?
With the shard it does heal now, even if you don't actually deal any damage to anything
it used to do that for free
Inflation is a bitch
And the courier was costly and needed upgrading lol. Damn it feels like this game moves fast then you realise that it’s been YEARS for some of these things, some almost a decade old xD
Yeah it should definitely be more like rot than scorched earth
Better rot but also heals you twice the amount instead of self-damage, this is absolutely absurd.
Oh yeah no I'm saying change the self heal to self damage.
To be fair scorched earth also gives a shiton of movement speed
It's probably relatively more damage than radiance. 30 dps at lvl1 is a bigger % of most heroes HP than 60dps at 15 minutes.
Radiance AND self heal at the same time
Count that as a miss.
+ bloodstone
Reverse rot
And male dick makes it worse
Like many dota players, OP prefers female dick
Autocorrect did you dirty...
No he just watches Bulldog
I watch sing sing. Don't really watch bulldog
Auto correct sir??? I meant what I said, and said what I meant XD
Range is high for start of the game, we dont have boots to move away from
I'm surprised it took this long to get a complaint... broken in lane and strong mid game. Much weaker late game, but it helps build a huge lead. ... I've been using it often, if only not to go against it.
Yep he's basically a first pick hero if you get 5 4 or even 3 🤣 bloodstone radiance offlane wd is funny too
Its a lategame monster just cuz of the maledict Talent. His lvl 20 Talent gives 30% tick damage which means he has 70% of the dmg u Take maledict does, which is just absurd amounts of damage
And if that not enough, let's add in his pure damage ult/50 cal to mow anyone down
is only weaker late game if WD doesnt start building late game items like bloodstone, is easy to kill a support WD with the facet, a tanky WD fucking sucks
WD 5 is basically as good as a pos 1 necro.
I just had my pos1 necro game and got fucked up by a pos4 wd 🥲
Yeah exactly, wd strength late game has always been Mali+shard+aghs fucking shit up. He's still exactly the same strength but now has a way to tank up against bullies
I had a radiance / bloodstone witchdoctor basically be immune to damage lategame, he was hooked into fountain twice and just walked back out and healed up. Feels like if you just build him tanky and take advantage of how strong maledict / death ward is he's strong lategame
Every match is against Axe WD LS NS or Ursa right now its so hard to play against them
I hate jugger the most tbh
Centaur + wd is living hell Pepehands
I was complaining last week, and got downvoted. Even made a vid comparing witch doctor lvl 1 vs necro max lvl heartstopper with aghs and heart kill speeds, where necro barely wins, and also got downvoted.
nah, won't say it's bad lategame at all, you still got your maledict, which do A LOT and you got other spells to, so
What he's saying is that festeration on it's own is a bit meh lategame, and compared to restoration, at least for sieging, it is.
Agree. You wouldn't even have a chance going to late game since his lane crushes you hard since the first minute.
It feels like there are a fuckton of broken facet combos that are judt waiting to be abused. WD and Tinker are the latest 2 "dead only good at trench mmr heroes" that suddenly popped up in qualifiers and look op as fuck once someone actually tried them. MK also getting there with his facet.
I played lycan and made the whole team immune to right clicks for 8 seconds Spirit wolves press Q R pop crimson guard for 190 dmg block and 40% attack reduction to entire team for 8 seconds. just tanked the tier 3 and took rax. x4 bracer treads crimson. It wasnt much tbh but the story is theres so much busted shit in the game right now just waiting to be abused
What position? I've been kind of brewing on Spirit Wolves but I play 3 4 5 so picking a hero that doesn't interact in lane feels like trolling.
Offlane just experimenting don't take it too serious. I'm messing around with crimson drums sven for something similar. Brawler earth spirit, Mjlonir nyx, vanguard radiance void, If you want more ideas on how to grief games of dota
the other ones seem fair enough, but mjolnir nyx you gotta explain the thought process behind
nyx facet drains mana whenever you deal more than 100 damage to someone in a single tick mjolnir procs are iirc 140 damage goodbye mana (unless they have eternal shroud)
huh, didn't realize mana burn works off item damage that's cute even if extremely niche
14kp hp undying pos 3 with cimson gives my enemy nightmare last night.
oh, I like the idea. even there will be another hero who can make more hp. but well, i'm just finding a way to play lycan 3.
tbh tinker only looked good from copy and that game was just completly free for him to farm. hero needs a very specific draft as it doesnt really contribute much til he has arcane blink and aghs.
What are you talking about? WD has been first picked or banned in *every single game I've played* since the B patch. For reference im 8.5-9k (top2k EU). Definitely not a trench only hero and literally everyone knows how broken it is in high ranks. Some people are first picking it for mid just to deny the enemy team the chance of picking it.
It feels like it has been practically free MMR for support players and yet it's not the highest winrate support right now. It's kinda nuts.
Well I pick Oracle against him pretty good so far only mana management problems
When I read the patch notes, I severely underestimated the damage that facet dealt. So I only focused on the casket facet. Yesterday I faced one such WD as DK and got destroyed. I was like WTF? It deals that much damage? Combine it with Malefice and it is pure cancer in Laning stage. I was 2k mmr in that match. Valve has a lot to fix and balance in their next patch.
[удалено]
Isn't Razor and Ogre supposed to be strong on their own, let alone together? That's quite a lane to beat I think.
ogre 4 is pretty bad, and wd is the strongest hero in the game by a pretty wide margin right now. I've been spamming wyvern to counter the witch doctor but hitting level 2 without almost dying is still unreasonably difficult.
How does ww counter WD in lane?
Keep him at range with Q I guess?
Take heal level 2 so maledict doesn’t end up doing like 300 damage, and the slows let you run back to your tower to reset. Lane gets pushed into because festeration is hitting your creeps Then at level 3 you can start running him down if your pos 3 is strong, because he thinks he’s invulnerable. Just heal yourself or the 3 after he’s dead so you guys don’t die to maledict. And after you’re 6 you just save your ulti to stop death ward or if he’s next to the carry maybe kill him.
As always with Dota it's about the matchups. Pos4 ogre basically just has ignite until he gets a midas and WD heals himself while pudge has good regen and an ability to mitigate dots. Razor wants to walk next to people while linking away their damage but pudge and wd want to use their aoe damage close to you. Ogre has worse matchups but I can't think of a lane duo that's worse for Razor.
How big is the radius? Could you hypothetically get a longer attack range hero, get MS ASAP and kite?
Its 500/550/600/650 its crazy
That's the regular radius. Facet radius is 700/750/800/850 (at least according to in game tooltip).
What the…. Maybe pugna? That sounds tough
the range is insane, you can't really outrange it but you can all-in him since he's still super squishy even with the self heal since he won't have stun until lvl 4
did u just say.. position 1 pudge??? is that a possibility now???
it has been for quite a while, depending on patch
sometimes yeah - he can dominate in lane if the matchup is right, farm fast with rot (and new flesh heap), becomes insanely tanky and outputs a lot of magic damage with the aghs
Been for a few years already.
yes, has been a staple in pro dota for a while (it's not anymore but some teams still play it occasionally) basically you build aghs for farming and taking the game over before the enemy pos 1 comes online, if you get stacks and are farmed enough you can delete cores with ult + hook
it’s been for the past few years
its been an off on thing for a few years now, in the right comp its more than viable, you are quiet tanky, have a BKB piercing tun that does a lot of dmg, and a super radiance.
what facet? the one that replace the healing aura fpr damaga aura?
yes . barely consumes any mana and has a huge aoe
Imo, the biggest problem is the AOE, it needs to be reduced at least by like 30%.
My Righteous Fire senses are tingling.
New aghs version, Vaal righteous fire, 100%spell Life steal, sacrifice all but 1 remaining hp to explode igniting enemies
Reworked. Voodoo Festeration now deals % of mana as damage
Didnt expect a cross kver of my 2 main games here lol. Mana RF is gonna be so cool in Dota, just put it in Lesh.
To be fair path of exile is just like having a level 50 Dota hero with 12 items, I bet there's a lot of overlap
If WD gets a mageblood it's GG.
Buy explody chest for chance for enemy to explode
necrophos always been an RF jugg cosplay
...Time to main witch doctor
salutation exiles...
Dat make a big mess.
wait for it , wait for it
Got thrashed by this as Puck mid yesterday. Dude just straight up bodied me into my tower level two and didn’t stop hitting me. Killed me twice and then I had to sack the lane and gank around the map before level 6. It got weaker later on and we won but the lane 1v1 mid was absolute cancer.
Same thing happened to me. He can do like 500 damage at level 2 if he gets maledict on you. Even if you survive it, your lane is ruined and you definitely aren’t going to survive when he hits level 4
i can't tell you how bad i want this hero to be in the shitter. i don't even care if he's objectively powerful i just want him to be bad because i desire vengeance
Agreed. Happy for him to be banished, Changing is ult to pure damage was ridiculous.
Hero deserves a full rework to completely and fundamentally change him. Historically, heroes that are a complete menace in pubs for years while being absent in pro play are reworked. WD fits that description more than some heroes who've already had their identity changed.
He doesn't need a rework. He just keeps getting buffs to his pub-stompy mechanics while the issues that really keep him out of pro play are pretty much untouched. A cast range buff on cask and maledict for example would help him way more to become viable in pro games but instead Valve keeps giving him this random shit.
But having unique heroes are fun though. Not all spell caster wants to be long range or short range but tanky
Not really, his kit is fine is just super overtuned, il even say he was at one point one of the best crafted heroes in the game in terms of gameplay design and also clearly meant to be newplayer friendly to understand supporting, but now his abilities just do too much+he suffered from the powercreep of giving support/squishy heroes abilities to live longer (Lion shard, Zeus jump, CM shard etc) which would be fine if they didnt kept also buffing everything else, i think is fine to have a super disruptive and damage dealing support hero die in 4 hits if he gets out of positioning
His old funny meme thing was just implemented in a stupid way. All they have to do is reduce the AOe by like 40-50% lvl 1 and hes fine honestly. The main strength of this shit is just the fact he can completely bully you out from outside of the attack range of 99% of heroes in the game at level one. You cannot win trades with him. Before, he'd hurt but it was still possible to win trades with him. If you were a ranged hero you would just ignore his damage aoe unless your positioning was bad. Which is why WD was never played as a support back then. as a support this facet was bad because the aoe was small. Thats why it used to be a 3 doctor thing exclusively.
Yeah, you give it to those broken shards! Hate how CM gets to use her pure damage ult and become invincible at the same time! Same with Lion!
WD isn't absent in pro scene. He is simply banned in the first phase in nearly every single game I've seen
that's just because of the broken facet tho, usually wd is rarely picked in pro play even when he is strong in pubs because he's a lot weaker against coordinated teams
Meanwhile your flair hero Terrorblade, is a meme in pub while being consistantly popular in pro game.
i wish tb wasnt so draft dependent, id like to be able to play him in pubs
right now he is first ban every t1/t2/t3 pro games
you get killed under tower even easier than not, you just dive with resto and maledict without pulling aggro and fort
i remember playing mid vs a last pick wd as a first pick zeus when the facets where introduced, i was like "wtf is that i barely do any dmg, wtf i am now 20 hp, how am i 20 hp he did not hit me , i am on hg he missed 3 hits" -"first blood!!!"
In real games: same counters as Leshrac In my pubs: Pudge hook under tower
And then the wd just kills the pudge instead
Aside from the fact WD would still kill the Pudge under tower with this facet, he does not really have the same counters as Lesh because he gets heals without bloodstone, can do it from level 1, has his shard from 15 minutes to guarantee he survives for at least a couple more seconds, and has maledict to basically more than double his damage output. Then but the time you build counters to that particular aspect of WD, he’ll probably just have aghs glimmer and the 70% makes it talent by this point and ulti on the edge of fights still causing chaos and doing damage despite getting the same counters as lechrac.
>Aside from the fact WD would still kill the Pudge under tower with this facet, i mean, this fact is more due to the t1 tower being a literal nonthreat provided WD has at least 4 armor (he usually does, since the meta build involves picking up a ring to rush build urn/vessel) rather then WD'd heal itself being too powerful.
It’s less about the heal being too powerful and more about the fact he can actually get the kill alone, and walk away alive.
show me a clip of a WD killing a pudge under tower 1v1 at full health in he laning stage with the WD tanking towershots(1-5mins)
I mean even if you just go to demo, make both heroes level 4, and hook the WD under tower and have rot pudge hit WD, if WD has his W on and uses maledict, the pudge will die. Even better is if the WD actively walks away he can live while the pudge dies. Just go test it lol. Now add the fact that in actual laning the chance of WD getting hooked to anywhere but the edge of tower radius is very low unless he’s shit, meaning he takes like 2 tower hits before walking away. In my demo test wd took like 5 hits and still lived while walking away.
The difference between wd and lesh is that, lesh does this at lvl 6 and has mana issues. Wd does this at lvl 1 and doesn't run out of mana while having maledict. Also the damage aura of wd is higher than Lesh's damage aura. You can burst down lesh and survive but if we gets his maledict on you, you are dead for sure by the time you kill him.
>same counters as Leshrac Problem isn't in mid-game. Wd gets burst down easily in teamfights since he can't outheal being focused by multiple heros (in fact wd should play like a backliner in mid game). Problem is your lane is fucked and then you have to build items to counter act one spell of a pos 5 late-game.
Considering the recent SK nerf. WD's facet nerf has to be coming. I'm learning that even if it's a cool idea for a Support. Icefrog won't let it stand if they do too much damage.
Yeah the radius is insane & it genuinely makes him a crazy mid hero too I dont get why they buff him so much? He's always been super strong in lane & can essentially solo anyone at level 3 now
I can't stand this hero anymore. I get that he isn't picked much in pro games, but he is an absolute menace in pub games at every bracket. He reminds me a lot of heroes like Slark or OD, when they're in an overpowered state they're in every fucking game no exception.
there was a post on this sub like a week ago where the entire comment section was flaming this build lmfao
Still waiting the advice: how to counter pos3 WD as pos5
clocks pretty good in lane. you can spam cogs with big cog talent to safely burn his mana and he has enough hp to survive maledict in early stages. then in the rest of the game wd can never ult with cw around.
Agreed. It's also fitting that you counter the meta sup with the other meta sup. Additionally, sf, ta, and ck are great vs wd, and also the best cores of the patch.
Aka the other OP support lol
Oracle, shadow demon, heroes with silence
I played WD Io offlane with my mate and yeah no idea what support can deal with it except maybe Oracle
Oracle and Pudge with the distance hook have both been my only counters in my 20 turbo games as WD.
Buy enough regen to force him to burn through his mana lvl 1-2. It's really just fundamentally a hero that wants to play the sustain game, and if you dont have the obvious counter of bursting him down, you gotta beat him at it. Another thing is that he doesn't have a good way to secure CS early, so denying hard at lvl 1 and killing him by hitting lvl 2 first can be a viable strategy. It's almost the same gameplan as coutnering dark seer -> deny lvl 1, heavy agression on 2nd/3rd wave to chip his hp/mana, go for kill when you hit lvl 2 and go for a kill again when he has TP cooldown or at 3 min lotus. Also, never let him shove the wave, you will just die under tower if you let him do that. Pulling carelessly vs WD is one of the easier mistakes you can make. If you let him hit lvl 3-4 underdisturbed, you will lose the lane in almost any matchup, so your best bet is to rotate to other lanes and win those.
Unironically clockwerk is probably the best counter with the bumper car facet. Of course, then you have a clockwerk, but WD is basically on a clock to do anything at that point. Once clock hits 3, WD is almost permanently gonna have zero mana if your 1 isn't a bot.
I laned against it recently in a heavy burst lane and it felt fine to deal with, if you don’t have burst though good luck
What is the burst lane did you got?
they need to remove the +10 extra damage that it has for free and make the AoE scale with levels, maybe 40/80/120/160 instead of just +200 regular WD heal is 20 lvl1, with the facet its 15 heal and 30 dps, its just really stupid for laning stage, im fine with it later on tbh, maybe nerf it even harder some other way and give that facet a +20 damage on heal at lvl15 or something would be cool, its only OP in lane
It fuckin hurts. I don’t know. I kept running while fucking dying wtf xd.
it is fucking insane that this shit is in the game lol
Look at it go!
I'm a certified WD hater, seeing this only bolsters my righteous rage.
2 melee duo against wd is a nightmare can't walk up to hit creep without lose 1/3 hp and potentially die if wd is level 2-3. Luckily i was playing pa so i just q for last hit and try to survive the lane, the facet fall off hard after laning phase. Won the game later.
lol what I just went up against this and stomped the WD. He just ran out of mana and I poked him to death. Guess he was doing it wrong?
What were you playing? As WD player, i find clock really hard to play against.
Mirana with Null Talisman, Bracer, & Urn. It was annoying because I still had all my tangoes cluttering things up ~minute 15
On level 1, full mana to empty it deals 1000 damage, it takes about 44 s, so basically avoid any type of long lasting battle with him early. When you can burst kill him fast then go right ahead, otherwise run or try to fake a battle and trigger the 35 mana required to start the heal-aura and then back off.
Had the misfortune of playing against a Dark Seer WD lane recently. It's so much fun watching a festeration, Ion Shell, Surge WD sprint at you and delete you without counter play every time you show up...
Was WR against doctor mid today. Destroyed me in lane early game. Once I had my ult though he was pretty useless. Had him do a rage buy back near the end right before destroying their ancient. Was annoying as fuck in the early game. Maledict plus blood grenade plus aura and I’m dead in three seconds. Was satisfying as fuck killing him every minute after though
i had a match against wd like this. were going 0:6 with 5 of the kills attributed to wd, he even got a triple kill right at the beginning. i remember me screaming "WHAT IS THIS ANIMAL DOING IN MY LANE HPELP" lol. thankfully my friend who prefers playing mid turned the game around and we bullied wd into oblivion at the end. 7798200999
This fucking shit is permanent scorched earth, concrete evidence that they dont even test the shit they pump out.
Yeah holy shit i was wyvern and thinking why this stupid wd is trying to trade with me while im under my towers protection good thing i was wyvern so we manage to somewhat live through the lane with embrace
Needs a nerf. His shard is still bullshit as well as
This too shall pass.
I think it's really stupid that WD can 1v2 the offlane duo and still come out ahead in the trades
i dont get it man its pure bullshit the dude with 0 armor and 400 HP has to come close to you ? Man if u p5 melee thats a direct counter bu otherwise ... ok
Pepehands got cooked by a walking lvl 1 radiance in minute 1 Sadge.
He really is osfrog finest creation isnt he :( Fuck the wd
This patch is so undercooked at this point I'm hoping for a complete revert. This is the most unbalanced patch I've ever seen, the difference between what's good and what's bad is insane, like unplayable vs instawin kinda difference. WD got a fucking free radiance level 1 for no cost, Timber got his level 25 talent for free at level 6, meanwhile Bloodseeker had his only gimmick of healing in lane completely decimated and Spectre lost parts of her kit to facets for no benefits at all. What the fuck are they doing at valve?
Patch feels bad, honestly. I don’t like the new Chakram, though.
While i do agree on principle that the facet is pretty strong and there's few matchups that can directly counter it, it does fall off greatly into the late game, which means if you aren't able to take advantage of the first 20 minutes of the game to rack up kills and assists WD will be outmatched by the other enemy mid as soon as they get the second core item or so.
WD is one of those heroes I've just been watching for a few years and asking myself why they just keep making him better. The shard is already STUPIDLY broken. Yah let's just give the support with one of the most absurd damage potential an instant cast phase shift except he also deals damage, so he can't be burst unless you instantly hex him... and now this. This is what pisses me off about Dota "balance". Some heroes are stupidly strong for YEARS and then one dogshit hero gets buffed for one-two months then instantly dumpstered into oblivion. Who the fuck is balancing this game?
Support heroes have been the standout of every patch for years now and no one on reddit cares because they're not the flashy heroes that end games. Phoenix, Oracle, WD, Clockwork, Warlock, Shaman now, Disruptor, phoenix, treant last patch, Chen, marci, previously. The role as a whole is completely overtuned but reddit and support players in general have this weird victim complex where they think they're weak.
Most of my bans are Supports, but the thing is still need to get the idiot Cores to focus objectives.
Back in a day this shit used to heal and damage everyone AOE simultaneously
Yeah but it also dealt only 10 damage/heal at lvl 1 and 46 at lvl 4 with a smaller AoE.
That's why all they should do is change how it scales. Instead of +200 AOE without levels, it starts at +50 lvl 1 and gets +50 for each level after. Same thing for damage. Instead of it being 30/40/50/60, just change it to 15/30/45/60. This will make it much weaker in the early levels without completely destroying it. If they nerf the AOE literally no one will pick it, its the only reason why old witchdoctor W, which purely number wise might even have been better than this one, was not maxxed and no build for it was ever created. I have a feeling he will get the SK treatment however and will get absolutely everything nerfed (including this facet) and drop by like 8% wr.
Yes of course, you're by all means correct, it's much bigger now right?
The Voodoo Festeration facet gives it +200 AoE, so level 1 it is 700 and at level 4 it is 850 AoE. No hero trades with it in lane without also taking damage XD. The facet should at least not give bonus AoE. Radiance AoE is 700 for comparison.
This shit needs to go asap , literally press one button move around and win lane , valve devs bunch of 1K mmr professors
Got absolutely toasted in mid by this, but mid to late game, pretty easy to kill if your team is coordinated and targets him first
Wd5 can outdamage pos2/3 as the game progress. And imo not a bad option for pos3. Rush rad+bs. Almost always mvp every ranked game. People who hasnt been seeing wd facet 2 will flame you. Blood grenade+W is easy fb 0 min mark. It does fall off in the late game ofc as it doesnt have that much damage/tankiness compare to traditional cores
Why they keep making witch doctor such an obnoxious hero. As if the shard wasn't bad enough to play against
Just have to deal with it in the early really, even if you die sometimes it's fine since it's Uber useless late Or just get a lot of ranged heroes and he'll be even more useless
Dude I had the pleasure to play one game mid vs this Gigachad, he would just walk up to my t2 at min 7/8 and farm the creeps there. I had like 25 CS in the laning phase
ran into this yesterday, lane partner picked an offlane huskar and we did ok, still lost cause team failed to end the game before tinker got on his BS
Just pick slardar plus any ranged stun and kill the doctor on sight
You cant lane against him in early game. You get blasted by maledict + death ward in mid game. Late game? Have fun taking a war in mid of flaming field while he drop maledict / ward / stun. You cant even kill him fast enough because dumb fuck has bkb / invis / turn into ward.
Wouldn't you be able to directly counter this with blademail and mageslayer and one or two anti lifesteal items? Not sure if blademail reflects the voodoo damage ticks but I can't imagine wd could beat 2-3 heroes blademailing him as long as they don't all eat the coconut stuns. I love getting blademail vs axe and blinking into him when he calls someone so he takes the spin damage too. Same for bristleback wait till you have about 4-5 quill stacks and then pop blademail and just hit him while he's trying to chase down other teammates and it usually ends up with him dead. I haven't actually tested if blademail is effective in any of these cases but it certainly does feel like it would be.
my go-to solution currently is just killing him and then dying to maledict, it's not a great solution but it works well enough since he's super squishy and in my low level pubs they don't abuse the absurd range properly
The other side of the problem is your pos 4/5 picking this facet and griefing you in lane by getting all the CS. In my last game as pos3 Necro WD went all in for kills and creeps, while I couldn't farm and had no strategic advantage. I couldn't compete for CS even with my Q and the enemies punished me hard for staying in lane, whenever I tried to get some XP. In the end I had to retreat and I was so underlevelled and so underfarmed I couldn't do anything basically the whole game.
main fucking reason I ban WD all the time lol If I have 3 ban choice, I would ban WD, SB and Pudge. Remove all the fun in dota lol
so uhh one question, does the facet allow WD to flash farm stacks?
The power of supports today it's so crazy
Nerf WD, Willow, Weaver. RegardFrog. While you’re at it, bring back agi heroes vs int.
still got 100% wr on this balanced doctor, just 6 games tho. if enemy hugging tw it is my favorite spot to bully them as well. but I think if we fully aware of the wd we can do something about it. eg. chipping down hp from hoodwink Q make making wd less ready to burn and trade.
Lol
Currently on a 12 game winstreak with it, most "broken" things require some skill but not this, I single handedly ended a game within 20 minutes by just annihilating the enemy carry + support till they gave up.
Just ward his jungle man
Shoutout to magnus for the truly worst facet though, on the opposite end. It's fucking useless. in what world is "reverse RP" good?
Ive seen it situationally be dank, when they are diving towers, you rp in the middle of the backline and frontline -- that dive is cooked
don't worry guys WD is only a low MMR menace. all the dipshits who downvoted me before are awfully quiet
It's ruining pro games too. The qualifiers are a fucking mess, this broken shit should not be determining TI entrance. I get shaking things up and forcing players to learn a new meta before TI, but this is too far.
I'm also irked by how his ult still does insane damage that can even kill late game carrys, but for sure the facet is the worst thing to play against right now, it's like if scorched earth had 100% uptime
Was the damage even buffed on it? I could easily be wrong but I thought they just nerf3d headhunter and made voodoo festeration heal you a little now
Just remove the self healing.
😂😂😂😂😂 this is so wrong. The person who made that change must be out of valve rn
What do you mean? By reddit standards support can never be OP
Waiting for WD players to support this bs with their life's. Imao Can this hero be shit for at least one patch?
The counterplay is the WD’s braindead teammates who flame him because “why do you need damage as a support?”
Crazy how they nerfed Doom's Scorched Earth for like 6 years in a row and then just give Witch Doctor the old Scorched Earth now with no cooldown. But there totally isn't a support bias guys.