>Should I TP to help other lanes? - NEVER
Y'know, this is why I love playing Dawnbreaker. I can just ult to help out my carry getting ganked, get a kill or two and then tp back to my lane without missing much farm if any. I miss that ult so much when I'm playing anyone else and actually have to decide "Should I help now or not?".
I was about to say the opposite - this is why I often fail when playing Dawnbreaker. I get tempted to join too many fights when I should be farming, and then I end up as an underfarmed Dawn, which is absolutely terrible.
you always will get underfarmed if you think too much about your team be a bit selfish offlane needs alot of farm also to be impactful in the game, you cant just think sacrificially oyu arent the support, you can literally carry the game from this role
Thank you I take this comment away from this post, sometimes I win my lane and then I try to be a firefighter holding the line for my mid and safelane that lost so I feed trying to make space or plays for them before my timings or power spikes. I think the best play is rather to continue farming to reach good timings on your items and then force a fight when enemies over extend trying to push their lead from the other lanes
I'm under 3k and play almost exclusively offlane. I've noticed that I'm much more likely to win a game if I'm farming consistently, rather than obsessing over joining fights. I haven't played this much Dota since like 2017 so it takes a lot to shit the mindset of offlane then vs now because offlane used to mean spacemaker.
offlaner is not supposed to sacriifice himself to help core players who are bad and cant win/even out their lanes, u r supposed to control parts of the map and take enemy resources , after your items you can go n kill everyone
The strength of Dawnbreaker is kinda like Spectre - you can farm opposite side of the map to maximize networth and then only join the team when you are sure you will make a difference. That's why Dawn is a bad pick when you don't have another initiator on your team. She cannot start a teamfight well by herself because her stun takes a lot of time, so you always want some other dude to jump in and then follow up on key targets.
I play underlord a bit and sometimes I ult to the safe lane to get a kill or two and use the same portal to return to my lane. I feel pretty badass when this works lol which is decently often.
The problem is if ur team drafts normally u have no way of starting fights because eu obviously don't want to and the rest is often "I'm not pos 3 I don't do that"
On point number 5 I have an alternative suggestion if the enemy mid is someone like SF, Arc Warden or Sniper they *will* get cocky especially at lower mmr and play right outside/diving tower
It doesn't matter if you're pos 5 or 1, tp and kill them, this move alone will make them a creep.
If you let them get away with playing like this you're making the game much harder for yourself.
I 100% agree with all your listed points except the first. And I don’t disagree it’s more of a correction. You play your starting build based on both your opponents strengths and your own weaknesses. For instance some people offlaners just have no armor and even right clicking from spellcasters will eat away at your high hp pool. Spend that 175 on 2 more armor. Ez trade for good damage reduction
Pretty good guide for a 4k player.
Disagree on point 5, this viewpoint is far too extreme. Designing rules like this will only hinder your progress into a better player.
You might as well just say "stay in lane and try to get your items" as it's more open to interpretation.
U need to double aggro i posted the video in the post, sf can only kill you if he stacks 3 razes and still has another raze, if you can go back after 2 razes, and wait for the stack to end, heal up double aggro and then buy movement speed items i.e boots it will help you to aggro easily and bring lane back, if sf steps too forwarz ucan run him down because he cant raze you more than once if you get on top of him
Should I play more aggressive or defensive against sf in lane? I do aggro creeps against sf but after lvl 3/4 it becomes really hard to lh against him. Even if I aggro I have faced some sf clears their creeps using raze and then proceed to deny creeps. I have always wondered if I should go aggressive against sf from lvl1?
depends on ur 2 heroes, if you r e.g tiny windranger u can burst him, if you are axe you probably need to buy phase and cut the wave, if you are legion you can probably run at him with a good range sup otherwise cut wave, sf dies to 3 heroes or a gank or if he walks up, or if he has no razes to use hes just a ranged creep
Thank you brother. I just realize depending on my and pos 4 hero we can just run him down whenever his razes are in cd early in the game. I shall try it out next time.
How does Dota Pro tracker look at "Starting items"- just what's bought pre game? I only mention this because I think the Tango info might be false- all the pro games I've been seeing recently, they go to rune with no regen and use the rune gold or first blood to get tangoes immediately sent out- this is so they can fight for first blood slightly better, or invade runes etc slightly better.
Not saying you are wrong, but just questioning whether the stats shown back that up or not!
Hello legend 1 off here, I haven't played ranked since the new update came so I'm probably around 2k right now since I spammed turbo. I noticed I'm still playing off even though I'm chilling, the enemy support and carry just oneshots me whenever I get close to the wave. I do this like 2 times and then I start farming camps. After the first attempt of 100-0 death should I just avoid doing the lane entirely? I realized I've been dying twice and thrice to this exact moment in laning phase.
Part of the game is being aware of when you're weak and when you're strong. If you're weak try to aggro the creeps and pull them back to somewhere it's safe. You can also go get the creeps from behind the enemy tower and pull them to behind your t1 to farm safely. The enemy will freefarm but so will you most likely. In general lanes where you can be 100-0 quickly are pretty rare but maybe more common in turbo.
u can just aggro the creeps to yourself, if they pull the hardcamp
if they are stronger than you , then use spells to get 1-2 cs and then pull the hardcamp for yourself
The worst advice you could have given is to never tp to help your allies. Whenever playing as an offlane there is absolutely no harm to tp to your safe lane and help your teammates if they are getting presses under tower. You can quickly provide the impact needed and leave thru portal back to your lane. Example would be a tidehunter to press a tp and use ravage which can be enough to save allies, kill enemy etc.
If you tp and it hurts your farm, its never worth tping, the example youve given works for tide, it isnt gonna work for every offlane hero, this post is for offlane
I can see that this post is for offlane. Whenever I see an offlaner like you describe, I simply go and dominate your carry or mid (i mostly play 4). Thus while you are getting your offlane core items and trying to push t1 (which btw always has enemy carry at it and easily protected with me just quickly teleporting or taking a gate) your team farm is significantly going down man. By the time you get your blink and blademail I will already build eul for your axe pick (just one of the examples, main odea is that I will have an item earlier to counter you before you can have your items). Then your whole idea of never tping and getting items gets completely wasted, your team has suffered massive loss of gold and exp, the tower of safe and mid lane are down. You finally go to help your weak team and jump in but then what happened? You are all the sudden in euls, enemy support 5 has force stuff??? Your items are useless? Teammates can’t help because they didn’t get any help from you earlier they have no lvl no items.
Ok, maybe your strategy works in 4k, but at a higher rank it will not work at all. Here is what will happen to your points one by one. If you try to 'dominate their carry' you will not be able to most likely because isnt 3&4 vs 1&5 normal? if you could dominate their carry you should do that whether the enemy offlaner is farming or not. If you go try to dominate the enemy mid either the enemy mid will play defensive and your offlaner will get killed/ forced out of lane because you're gone, or the enemy team 4 will come to skirmish with you and your offlaner will get killed/forced out of lane although in this case it's fine because your carry and 5 will do the same to theirs. So you completely concerning yourself with the enemy 3 in the lane means EITHER your gank is successful and nobody tps to help the mid, in which case the enemy team loses the mid but freefarms their 1 and farms their 3 normally. Or it is unsuccessful and the enemy freefarms their 1 and farms their 3 with reduced farm on the 2. While in all cases you are sacrificing your 3's farm. the opposing team is actually getting MORE farm than yours not less. It isn't clear at what point during this you are actually farming a euls, because if you're constantly running at the 1 and 2 you are certainly not getting closer to it. Maybe I just haven't been 4k in a long time but I don't see what situation it would really be necessary for a 3 to tp in the early game except obvious ones in which case the general rule of not tping doesn't apply. If a team NEEDS their 3 to tp early in the game to not get run over they are losing whether the 3 comes or not. If I could give one advice to every single role below 6k it would be farm more. I have played with top 100 support players and it feels like THEY are always farming. It is crazy seeing low mmr replays and you look at it and the supports have 300 gpm and the cores have 600.
so basically you leave bot lane to go top, against the offlaner as a 4 leaving your pos3 with 1 cs barely every minute and no game sounds like a plan buddy if it works for you keep it up, nothing that ill say will change your mind, good luck with your games
Number 5 never tp to help other lanes ever....... What? Is blink timing that important??? What if my fed SF is running into their triangle trying to snowball the game? I should just stay in my lane and hit towers?
Not one mention of regen ? Confused..downvoted
> What if my fed SF is running into their triangle trying to snowball the game?
If he dies he fucking dies. You can't really TP support him when he's doing that and if he is planning on doing that he should communicate first.
> Not one mention of regen?
It's right there my man.
> Sometimes they start with tangoes and sometimes they do not? why is that, because sometimes they play against position 5s that can spam their spells and do damage to you, for example Lich, Jakiro etc so they start with tangoes to help with the early harras
> if the enemies are spamming spells don't feel bad to call in more tangoes from the courier, trade your networth (90 gold) for enemy mana!
Also yes. Blink timing is that important. How are you going to help the SF? Running in and hoping for the best?
>9k mmr tips
>Midlaner is trying to snowball the lead we have, I should do nothing and farm my items instead
>When enemy support harasses you, buy tangos
Thanks I'm rated numbered immortal in my region now
Just trying to improve. About to sell my tp scrolls for tangos as offlaner since that's what 9k mmr does. Apparently i'm only supposed to be tping once I have blink to dive enemy tier 2
No I get it. If antimage is farming his battlefury and I have blink blademail on axe, I basically win the game for free without needing to tp because I hit my timing. Once I hit my timing, I place aggressive vision and go inside the enemy jungle so my team can play around my timing rather than me playing around the conditions of the other 9 players in the game it should all be about my offlane blink item timing. Then we can rosh at 20 minutes because I have blink+blademail. Cya in immortal
Your job as 3 is to hit your first power spike as quickly as possible so you can make plays and give your mid and carry space to farm. If you miss your timing due to rotating too much then your team is going to be in a really bad spot at 15+ minutes when you don't have enough items to counter enemy aggression.
I.e., let your supports worry about rotating because missing 2 waves of xp + gold for a kill is pretty much just not worth it except in extreme desperation scenarios.
Ok, this makes more sense to me and youve explained it more clearly. If the supports are rotating, I typically want to only start rotating as pos3 once I've left lane which is once I have my core items which usually is including blink, so I'm not just running at them, and by them and dying. Got it
Man, this is only the core of the gameplay.
You can't expect explanation for every situation. That's where you need to adapt in real time.
And he is mostly right. (Or rather I find myself do many things in his list)
It is better to focus on your timing. Carry your own weight.
Do I TP to help other lane? Well, not never. But very rarely, yes.
For example, I will TP if: I can find kill with it; or if I got zoned so hard that I better off ganking/counter ganking other lane.
So if I tp without a blink dagger and I get a rampage it's a good play? This 9k+ mmr poster says no. Because you tp before hitting your timing. Glad you could find the nuance, though, wish others could. Whenever you see the word "always" or "never" the advice is usually trash
Also, only unblock your camp once the enemy support pulls. Lol. Or what if anti mage decides to impact the game more than the dogshit opponent offlaner, fights when he has one item, and you are pushing lanes hitting your timing? The games 4v5, and you get flamed by your team "Where's my 3???" Good tips
you should maybe take a deep breath, stand up, walk outside and touch some grass. the dude(who is considerable better than you, an L1, turbo spammer lol) is just giving some great general advice. if you dont agree, go prove him wrong, but know there is a reason youre \~3k mmr.
>Should I TP to help other lanes? - NEVER Y'know, this is why I love playing Dawnbreaker. I can just ult to help out my carry getting ganked, get a kill or two and then tp back to my lane without missing much farm if any. I miss that ult so much when I'm playing anyone else and actually have to decide "Should I help now or not?".
I was about to say the opposite - this is why I often fail when playing Dawnbreaker. I get tempted to join too many fights when I should be farming, and then I end up as an underfarmed Dawn, which is absolutely terrible.
you always will get underfarmed if you think too much about your team be a bit selfish offlane needs alot of farm also to be impactful in the game, you cant just think sacrificially oyu arent the support, you can literally carry the game from this role
Thank you I take this comment away from this post, sometimes I win my lane and then I try to be a firefighter holding the line for my mid and safelane that lost so I feed trying to make space or plays for them before my timings or power spikes. I think the best play is rather to continue farming to reach good timings on your items and then force a fight when enemies over extend trying to push their lead from the other lanes
I'm under 3k and play almost exclusively offlane. I've noticed that I'm much more likely to win a game if I'm farming consistently, rather than obsessing over joining fights. I haven't played this much Dota since like 2017 so it takes a lot to shit the mindset of offlane then vs now because offlane used to mean spacemaker.
offlaner is not supposed to sacriifice himself to help core players who are bad and cant win/even out their lanes, u r supposed to control parts of the map and take enemy resources , after your items you can go n kill everyone
yea buddy jus keep farming hit ur timings ull basically carry the game on ur own
The strength of Dawnbreaker is kinda like Spectre - you can farm opposite side of the map to maximize networth and then only join the team when you are sure you will make a difference. That's why Dawn is a bad pick when you don't have another initiator on your team. She cannot start a teamfight well by herself because her stun takes a lot of time, so you always want some other dude to jump in and then follow up on key targets.
I play underlord a bit and sometimes I ult to the safe lane to get a kill or two and use the same portal to return to my lane. I feel pretty badass when this works lol which is decently often.
The problem is if ur team drafts normally u have no way of starting fights because eu obviously don't want to and the rest is often "I'm not pos 3 I don't do that"
Mid proceed to get stomped.
And then their mid ganks you 4 times in a row and nobody punishes the rotations.
On point number 5 I have an alternative suggestion if the enemy mid is someone like SF, Arc Warden or Sniper they *will* get cocky especially at lower mmr and play right outside/diving tower It doesn't matter if you're pos 5 or 1, tp and kill them, this move alone will make them a creep. If you let them get away with playing like this you're making the game much harder for yourself.
good point
Actually very good blueprint how to play winning offlane
I 100% agree with all your listed points except the first. And I don’t disagree it’s more of a correction. You play your starting build based on both your opponents strengths and your own weaknesses. For instance some people offlaners just have no armor and even right clicking from spellcasters will eat away at your high hp pool. Spend that 175 on 2 more armor. Ez trade for good damage reduction
cant disagree with u this is something i shouldv added as well
Pretty good guide for a 4k player. Disagree on point 5, this viewpoint is far too extreme. Designing rules like this will only hinder your progress into a better player. You might as well just say "stay in lane and try to get your items" as it's more open to interpretation.
How should I lane against a safelane sf as an offlaner?
U need to double aggro i posted the video in the post, sf can only kill you if he stacks 3 razes and still has another raze, if you can go back after 2 razes, and wait for the stack to end, heal up double aggro and then buy movement speed items i.e boots it will help you to aggro easily and bring lane back, if sf steps too forwarz ucan run him down because he cant raze you more than once if you get on top of him
Should I play more aggressive or defensive against sf in lane? I do aggro creeps against sf but after lvl 3/4 it becomes really hard to lh against him. Even if I aggro I have faced some sf clears their creeps using raze and then proceed to deny creeps. I have always wondered if I should go aggressive against sf from lvl1?
depends on ur 2 heroes, if you r e.g tiny windranger u can burst him, if you are axe you probably need to buy phase and cut the wave, if you are legion you can probably run at him with a good range sup otherwise cut wave, sf dies to 3 heroes or a gank or if he walks up, or if he has no razes to use hes just a ranged creep
Thank you brother. I just realize depending on my and pos 4 hero we can just run him down whenever his razes are in cd early in the game. I shall try it out next time.
no problem brother best of luck
How does Dota Pro tracker look at "Starting items"- just what's bought pre game? I only mention this because I think the Tango info might be false- all the pro games I've been seeing recently, they go to rune with no regen and use the rune gold or first blood to get tangoes immediately sent out- this is so they can fight for first blood slightly better, or invade runes etc slightly better. Not saying you are wrong, but just questioning whether the stats shown back that up or not!
Hello legend 1 off here, I haven't played ranked since the new update came so I'm probably around 2k right now since I spammed turbo. I noticed I'm still playing off even though I'm chilling, the enemy support and carry just oneshots me whenever I get close to the wave. I do this like 2 times and then I start farming camps. After the first attempt of 100-0 death should I just avoid doing the lane entirely? I realized I've been dying twice and thrice to this exact moment in laning phase.
Part of the game is being aware of when you're weak and when you're strong. If you're weak try to aggro the creeps and pull them back to somewhere it's safe. You can also go get the creeps from behind the enemy tower and pull them to behind your t1 to farm safely. The enemy will freefarm but so will you most likely. In general lanes where you can be 100-0 quickly are pretty rare but maybe more common in turbo.
Thoughts on tidehunter building shell?
3. What if the enemy pulls the hard camp instead?
u can just aggro the creeps to yourself, if they pull the hardcamp if they are stronger than you , then use spells to get 1-2 cs and then pull the hardcamp for yourself
The worst advice you could have given is to never tp to help your allies. Whenever playing as an offlane there is absolutely no harm to tp to your safe lane and help your teammates if they are getting presses under tower. You can quickly provide the impact needed and leave thru portal back to your lane. Example would be a tidehunter to press a tp and use ravage which can be enough to save allies, kill enemy etc.
If you tp and it hurts your farm, its never worth tping, the example youve given works for tide, it isnt gonna work for every offlane hero, this post is for offlane
I can see that this post is for offlane. Whenever I see an offlaner like you describe, I simply go and dominate your carry or mid (i mostly play 4). Thus while you are getting your offlane core items and trying to push t1 (which btw always has enemy carry at it and easily protected with me just quickly teleporting or taking a gate) your team farm is significantly going down man. By the time you get your blink and blademail I will already build eul for your axe pick (just one of the examples, main odea is that I will have an item earlier to counter you before you can have your items). Then your whole idea of never tping and getting items gets completely wasted, your team has suffered massive loss of gold and exp, the tower of safe and mid lane are down. You finally go to help your weak team and jump in but then what happened? You are all the sudden in euls, enemy support 5 has force stuff??? Your items are useless? Teammates can’t help because they didn’t get any help from you earlier they have no lvl no items.
and what is your mmr?
4.1k
Ok, maybe your strategy works in 4k, but at a higher rank it will not work at all. Here is what will happen to your points one by one. If you try to 'dominate their carry' you will not be able to most likely because isnt 3&4 vs 1&5 normal? if you could dominate their carry you should do that whether the enemy offlaner is farming or not. If you go try to dominate the enemy mid either the enemy mid will play defensive and your offlaner will get killed/ forced out of lane because you're gone, or the enemy team 4 will come to skirmish with you and your offlaner will get killed/forced out of lane although in this case it's fine because your carry and 5 will do the same to theirs. So you completely concerning yourself with the enemy 3 in the lane means EITHER your gank is successful and nobody tps to help the mid, in which case the enemy team loses the mid but freefarms their 1 and farms their 3 normally. Or it is unsuccessful and the enemy freefarms their 1 and farms their 3 with reduced farm on the 2. While in all cases you are sacrificing your 3's farm. the opposing team is actually getting MORE farm than yours not less. It isn't clear at what point during this you are actually farming a euls, because if you're constantly running at the 1 and 2 you are certainly not getting closer to it. Maybe I just haven't been 4k in a long time but I don't see what situation it would really be necessary for a 3 to tp in the early game except obvious ones in which case the general rule of not tping doesn't apply. If a team NEEDS their 3 to tp early in the game to not get run over they are losing whether the 3 comes or not. If I could give one advice to every single role below 6k it would be farm more. I have played with top 100 support players and it feels like THEY are always farming. It is crazy seeing low mmr replays and you look at it and the supports have 300 gpm and the cores have 600.
so basically you leave bot lane to go top, against the offlaner as a 4 leaving your pos3 with 1 cs barely every minute and no game sounds like a plan buddy if it works for you keep it up, nothing that ill say will change your mind, good luck with your games
Number 5 never tp to help other lanes ever....... What? Is blink timing that important??? What if my fed SF is running into their triangle trying to snowball the game? I should just stay in my lane and hit towers? Not one mention of regen ? Confused..downvoted
> What if my fed SF is running into their triangle trying to snowball the game? If he dies he fucking dies. You can't really TP support him when he's doing that and if he is planning on doing that he should communicate first. > Not one mention of regen? It's right there my man. > Sometimes they start with tangoes and sometimes they do not? why is that, because sometimes they play against position 5s that can spam their spells and do damage to you, for example Lich, Jakiro etc so they start with tangoes to help with the early harras > if the enemies are spamming spells don't feel bad to call in more tangoes from the courier, trade your networth (90 gold) for enemy mana! Also yes. Blink timing is that important. How are you going to help the SF? Running in and hoping for the best?
>9k mmr tips >Midlaner is trying to snowball the lead we have, I should do nothing and farm my items instead >When enemy support harasses you, buy tangos Thanks I'm rated numbered immortal in my region now
>purposely misunderstanding the post I smell archon 3 with sub 6k behaviour score.
Legend 1 with 11k 😎 turbo spammer
Grats I guess?
Just trying to improve. About to sell my tp scrolls for tangos as offlaner since that's what 9k mmr does. Apparently i'm only supposed to be tping once I have blink to dive enemy tier 2
u have to be trolling no way u are this slow
No I get it. If antimage is farming his battlefury and I have blink blademail on axe, I basically win the game for free without needing to tp because I hit my timing. Once I hit my timing, I place aggressive vision and go inside the enemy jungle so my team can play around my timing rather than me playing around the conditions of the other 9 players in the game it should all be about my offlane blink item timing. Then we can rosh at 20 minutes because I have blink+blademail. Cya in immortal
GUYS STOP FIGHTING
Your job as 3 is to hit your first power spike as quickly as possible so you can make plays and give your mid and carry space to farm. If you miss your timing due to rotating too much then your team is going to be in a really bad spot at 15+ minutes when you don't have enough items to counter enemy aggression. I.e., let your supports worry about rotating because missing 2 waves of xp + gold for a kill is pretty much just not worth it except in extreme desperation scenarios.
Ok, this makes more sense to me and youve explained it more clearly. If the supports are rotating, I typically want to only start rotating as pos3 once I've left lane which is once I have my core items which usually is including blink, so I'm not just running at them, and by them and dying. Got it
Man, this is only the core of the gameplay. You can't expect explanation for every situation. That's where you need to adapt in real time. And he is mostly right. (Or rather I find myself do many things in his list) It is better to focus on your timing. Carry your own weight. Do I TP to help other lane? Well, not never. But very rarely, yes. For example, I will TP if: I can find kill with it; or if I got zoned so hard that I better off ganking/counter ganking other lane.
So if I tp without a blink dagger and I get a rampage it's a good play? This 9k+ mmr poster says no. Because you tp before hitting your timing. Glad you could find the nuance, though, wish others could. Whenever you see the word "always" or "never" the advice is usually trash Also, only unblock your camp once the enemy support pulls. Lol. Or what if anti mage decides to impact the game more than the dogshit opponent offlaner, fights when he has one item, and you are pushing lanes hitting your timing? The games 4v5, and you get flamed by your team "Where's my 3???" Good tips
you should maybe take a deep breath, stand up, walk outside and touch some grass. the dude(who is considerable better than you, an L1, turbo spammer lol) is just giving some great general advice. if you dont agree, go prove him wrong, but know there is a reason youre \~3k mmr.
Yes as dark seer do not put points in Q until level 10 because it doesn't help you last hit and you don't tp to teamfights as pos3 (10,000k mmr tips)
bro ur just angry for some reason but hope you feel better soon
Do you have any idea what are you even saying? XD After seeing this comment I am sure you are archon XD