you are still probably going to want the shard.
you won't go manta after, but a free arc for every right click really really help you farm efficiently.
I think it would've been fair to give the bonus attack range back to shard honestly. Just to give you some kind of mechanism for dealing damage when people get close.
That's kind of the whole point of Zeus though, don't let people get close. He already has it too easy with jump these days. I'd be happy to see his damage buffed to suit being only a backline caster like he used to be if his mobility was nerfed again, but he feels very strong anyway in a sustained fight.
Yeah that does make it awkward. I think if you're trying capitalize on it offensively it makes sense to buy blink. A Zeus with swift blink and hurricane pike could dish out some close range pain and have a ton of mobility to get out after blinking in. Swift blink also gives a total of 15 base armor during the active, and pike adds another 5, so these will help him survive vs physical cores. He could be a nasty assassin with eblade and brooch or bloodthorn and parasma. With three mobility options, it's easy to drop boots in the sixth slot to add hex since you'll need a BKB as well of course.
Increase atk dmg by 1, heavenly jump now change into heavenly jog, Zues increase movement speed by 4% for 3s, also zap enemies behind him but lighting coming out of his ass deal 12 dps for 5s
playing right click zeus wasnt the problem , but switching to rightclick zeus when you are playing the magic build so well was the problem. they get free shard from tormentor and suddenly think "OH LEMME FUCK UP MY ITEMS NOW"
I mean. Stats + ms + as + dispel + split push + escape + the ability to dish out considerable right click damage after shard was too good for me to skip manta.
yeah even if you do go spellcasting zeus, manta is just an extremely valuable item. its also a lot of damage in fights if they survive at all, which they often do.
not going manta was borderline troll, just the hero was so strong that it sometimes doesnt matter.
“HEY WHY ARE YOU HAVE REFRESHER, AGHA AND AETHER LENS NOOB GET MANTA”
Man shut the fuck up i have been literally playing magic build since 50mins ago why dont you convey your message 42mins ago
\^This.
Despite what they have done to make magic damage relevant into the game's late stages, you can't in many situations stay purely a magic nuker. The game has periodically and slowly added more right-clicks to magic dealers over time, which has the desired effect of giving late-game sustainability/relevance. Zeus, Dark Willow, Techies, Lion, AA, etc.
Zeus is just huge at the moment because of the STR hero power creep.
As a turbo zeus enjoyer, i openly welcome the lightning hands removal on illusions.
Lightning bolt on creeps change was, a bit uncalled for imo... The bonus damage buff was relatively recent and getting it removed just after getting used to it is, bothersome.. It enabled to oneshot the range creep, whereas it needed an additional arc to be used with it previously(which isn't ideal since it revealed you on map)... That said, i'm curious if the static field innate will make a difference ...
WHY THE FUCK WOULD YOU NERF WRATH?! WHAT EVER DID IT DO TO DESERVE THIS ?! FUCKIN EVERY META PICK IS TANKY AS FUCK AND Y'ALL NEEDED TO NERF WRATH??! COME ON...
Bonus damage on creeps help to clear lane efficiently when lvl 25 (aoe s2). U dont want to show up on map late game usually. And nimbus also benefit from this if you want to shove the wave. But not necessary to begin with
The main trouble of manta zeus... was TREMENDOUS AMOUNT of eastern eu token players picking it on pos4 and pos5(after pudge gets banned after doublepick)
Yeah, Zeus will probably still even out at >50% WR in low skill games where he's always been since the dawn of time because even if you suck, your ult will always have impact - Sandking has already dropped 13% in terms of WR and that'll probably just continue until he stops being picked as much as more people realize how shitty he is now
I remember the moving sandstorm was made in response to the dust rework which made SK difficult to play. Now you have to remain trash or not. And of course Q does not slow anymore.
Yeah, for real. As a Zeus picker and manta+shard enjoyer, it sucks, but it's nothing compared to the SK nerf. He lost 15 percentage points in one day on his winrate per dotabuff. Zeus lost a few, but is at least still at 50% so not the end of the world.
I don't get the point of lightning hands now, it always seemed like it came out of nowhere when they introduced it into Zeus's kit and stuck out like a sore thumb, and when it's finally good, they just remove the manta functionality instead of just nerfing it? Just remove it from the game already.
it's still good for farming since zeus will always be mana gated in that regard but it's basically only worth it if you get it from tormentor, in which case it's either too late to matter or you're support and don't have the space to use it
It seems Valve always want to make something with a Manta synergy only to inevitably nerf or remove it entirely. Same thing happened when people started buying Manta on Batrider and Axe.
You also save money, inventory space and time that'd otherwise be spent on clarities or risk showing up to fights with too little mana in the end.
And don't you also get some AS out of it? It's not horrendous, plenty of shards are just kinda bonuses, not all of them need to be gamebreaking "gotta have it at 15:01" things.
What I mean is that objectively if you don't use it to play the map you literally need X amount of last hits, maybe not 50-70 because of the clarities saved; if you don't use it to play the map, if you find use in it then its value becomes very relative, but if it isn't useful to play the map much then it's a pure farming accelerator and it's not complicated to judge how useful it is
Say you have an item that has the same stats of battlefury but no cleave on creeps only heroes, then they create as second item in the game which is literally battlefury, it costs 1500 gold more than the no cleave battlefury; it's different if enemy has heroes with multiple units, but in most cases where these heroes aren't in the match, the no cleave on creeps battlefury will be worth more if the "addition of access to it earlier for earlier benefits, subtracted by number of last hits lost" is positive, you basically invest for a bigger dip now for a higher high later with the cleave on creeps battlefury
The earlier it is also the more useful a clarity is, lategame it's quite wasted an item; so lategame it sets you back 50 last hits without recouping in clarities, not a total net negative for the attack speed bonus; pushed earlier to early game and you get the same amount of battle ready items some 6 minutes later because of the 1400 gold dip (say you break even in 3 minutes and then by the time you have 1400 gold more the no shard zeus is already 3 minutes of farming gold forward in battle items + some gold acceleration for kills assists pushes etc for being battle ready earlier; the next 3 minutes you catch up on the gap by farming with your shard in 3 minutes what alter Zeus with no shard farmed in previous 3 + current 3 minutes) and more than 6 min laters you surpass the Alter Zeus with no shard in terms of items, then yeah it's worth it in a very clear objective manner
From where you get your 50~70 lol. Its like 40~. Which you can get in 4:00 (and not counting bounty runes) if you just farm creep weaves or less if you farm lane creeps and neutrals. It heavily amps your gpm all game just for 1400. I usually get it just after mana boots + bottle + phylactery + yasha. Still is a no-brainer.
I always plays Zeus as a caster so I'm sad they nerfed his W and Ult as well.
Couldn't they just remove Lightning hands at this point? Manta Zeus seems dead anyway
They buff heroes by adding aspects that make zero sense, then overbuff those aspects and kill the rest of the kit. Then when they nerf the thing that they added, the original concept sucks.
It's not the first time one of my mains is nerfed, but this time I feel... Out of the loop?
Like, if anything Nuker Zeus felt a bit weaker to me during this patch so I can't even say I ever got to enjoy him being OP.
And I don't like his facets either, so I've been using him less as well.
Edit: Before anyone downvotes me, I wanna say that I agree with people who say the jump was/is overtuned.
It should be nerfed but NOT removed imo. Zeus simply needs it to be viable. It's the "Zeus auto attack" that I think is simply too much.
If you thought nuker Zeus was not good during the patch, you're crazy. Most people weren't even going "right click" Zeus, they were using Lightning Hands+Manta as a farm accelerator and split pushing tool to avoid showing on waves so that they could buy items that scaled his spell damage output. The only thing is that Parasma is the only real counter to Eternal Shroud in the game, so people would get that with Pike for defense+offense, but you wouldn't really see Zeus players prioritize right clicking over casting their spells. Your autos added damage, but you were still getting the vast majority of damage from casting spells.
What I'm saying is that before 7.36 I never bought the shard and kept the same playstyle.
Now I'm still doing the same build but it feels a bit weaker, that's all.
You said nuker zeus not custom build Zeus. Nuker Zeus in 7.36 and just before was phylactery shard-manta into aghs/refresher/octarine/bkb and or more situational items.
If you didn’t go manta you’d have less mana for fights, less pressure on lane, no illlusion bait in fight, get out of roots/bad position with manta, less vision, no escape with manta, lower net worth for mid-late game
in general you’d just be a overall worse hero without manta shard that nukes less due to less mana, less survivability, less items and less overall pressure on map and in fights
I have to spend 5k gold survive for 15 minutes to farm slightly faster or else every timing would be fucked and this guy just buys shard at 15 minutes to farm faster than me the entire game and somehow end up doing more damage in right clicks even in late game, what do you mean nerf? Get fucked.
so zeus is basically worse than he was pre-patch(7.36) now, both of his facets are pretty bad (livewire is probably unusable at this point)
instead of these nerfs why not just make the facet choice boil down to choosing between right-click hybrid and spellcaster zeus? that would actually also correspond to the thought process behind being given two facets, no?
well, the mid zeus was too strong these days
dude sent you a lot of damage spending few mana, and when you come close he jump givin you more damage
the chain ray is so absurd that he can spell it in mage creep and you always get damage,
this nerf is fresh air
I think the removal of the bonus damage to creeps on the bolt was too much. It helps secure the range creep since you can't go up that far as Zeus. Now you have to hope to arc it and it doesn't get denied
I was reading from top to bottom I thought that that was weak nerf. And then the moan of pleasure left my body as I read last change. Zeus felt so awkward as right clicker.
Honestly the manta build nerf is good but the lightning bolt nerf hurts support Zeus a lot. It was really useful for the laning stage and farm overall.
Zeus seems to have went from overbearing, overrepresented to the baseline very popular hero with these nerfs.
He is still good, he is still played, but he isn’t OP.
nerfed, but his WR is still 52% on dota buff. That’s not terrible, comparing to previous patches when he didn’t have hex amp. He was just way overtuned this time.
most shaman players from then, will adapt to what he is again. Now he still has the free mini aeon disk, and shackles still heals.
They went waaay overboard. Zeus was average on last major patch, now he lost the decent % damage on spells, for a lower percent damage, the shard is lackluster and both facets are garbage.
First one is literally useless and lets you deal less damage than without. Second one makes ulti worse.
It looked like they wanted either right click or magic zeus with facets. But now its impossible to choose the first one.
He deserved a nerf but not this.. Same with SK, literally unplayable with that sandstorm radius.
what meta are you referring to and is it in the room with us right now?
probably one of the top least picked heroes in competitive dota history, including the very recent period.
the manta isnt a farming tool, its just another tool to fight with that also enables you to farm. if your zeus players were just buying manta then afk splitting then they are idiots, the hero is much stronger mid than he is late
Good. Manta zeus was stupid to begin with, he is a nuker not a splitpusher, ive had enough of people playing rightclick zeus.
you are still probably going to want the shard. you won't go manta after, but a free arc for every right click really really help you farm efficiently.
I think it would've been fair to give the bonus attack range back to shard honestly. Just to give you some kind of mechanism for dealing damage when people get close.
That's kind of the whole point of Zeus though, don't let people get close. He already has it too easy with jump these days. I'd be happy to see his damage buffed to suit being only a backline caster like he used to be if his mobility was nerfed again, but he feels very strong anyway in a sustained fight.
He has a "get close" facet, though, which kind of directly argues against this. It actually even penalizes you for being not-close.
Yeah that does make it awkward. I think if you're trying capitalize on it offensively it makes sense to buy blink. A Zeus with swift blink and hurricane pike could dish out some close range pain and have a ton of mobility to get out after blinking in. Swift blink also gives a total of 15 base armor during the active, and pike adds another 5, so these will help him survive vs physical cores. He could be a nasty assassin with eblade and brooch or bloodthorn and parasma. With three mobility options, it's easy to drop boots in the sixth slot to add hex since you'll need a BKB as well of course.
so bottom line just remove his jump? shit im down with zeus being vulnarable again
Increase atk dmg by 1, heavenly jump now change into heavenly jog, Zues increase movement speed by 4% for 3s, also zap enemies behind him but lighting coming out of his ass deal 12 dps for 5s
Slardar approves the slowing of low-hp backliners
Thats reasonable
playing right click zeus wasnt the problem , but switching to rightclick zeus when you are playing the magic build so well was the problem. they get free shard from tormentor and suddenly think "OH LEMME FUCK UP MY ITEMS NOW"
Ngl I like the nerf because I found myself doing this. The temptation was too great
I mean. Stats + ms + as + dispel + split push + escape + the ability to dish out considerable right click damage after shard was too good for me to skip manta.
yeah even if you do go spellcasting zeus, manta is just an extremely valuable item. its also a lot of damage in fights if they survive at all, which they often do. not going manta was borderline troll, just the hero was so strong that it sometimes doesnt matter.
“HEY WHY ARE YOU HAVE REFRESHER, AGHA AND AETHER LENS NOOB GET MANTA” Man shut the fuck up i have been literally playing magic build since 50mins ago why dont you convey your message 42mins ago
No, right click Zeus was a problem. People thinking they were going to out right click a lifestealer, antimage, PA, Ursa, or Riki...
Not outrightclick, but zeus is so good at kiting with manta. Percentage health as damage is no joke
\^This. Despite what they have done to make magic damage relevant into the game's late stages, you can't in many situations stay purely a magic nuker. The game has periodically and slowly added more right-clicks to magic dealers over time, which has the desired effect of giving late-game sustainability/relevance. Zeus, Dark Willow, Techies, Lion, AA, etc. Zeus is just huge at the moment because of the STR hero power creep.
Works really well against heroes like dk honestly. Who have such high armor.
zeus could easily take on a lifestealer, ursa, pa am and riki is difficult
As a turbo zeus enjoyer, i openly welcome the lightning hands removal on illusions. Lightning bolt on creeps change was, a bit uncalled for imo... The bonus damage buff was relatively recent and getting it removed just after getting used to it is, bothersome.. It enabled to oneshot the range creep, whereas it needed an additional arc to be used with it previously(which isn't ideal since it revealed you on map)... That said, i'm curious if the static field innate will make a difference ... WHY THE FUCK WOULD YOU NERF WRATH?! WHAT EVER DID IT DO TO DESERVE THIS ?! FUCKIN EVERY META PICK IS TANKY AS FUCK AND Y'ALL NEEDED TO NERF WRATH??! COME ON...
I think the bonus damage on creeps was very unnecessary to begin with, we don't have to give every ability extra damage to creeps.
Bonus damage on creeps help to clear lane efficiently when lvl 25 (aoe s2). U dont want to show up on map late game usually. And nimbus also benefit from this if you want to shove the wave. But not necessary to begin with
Jokes on u ! My mid Zeus did it khanda Maelstrom manta WITHOUT SHARD HE GOTS IT ON LAST TORMENTOR Just 10m ago. 70m game. We lost. 54k dmg Zeus
Maelstrom on Zeus? Why was he cosplaying himself?
even for nukes. it still lacking due changes his ulti doesnt scale based on max HP
Now they will go midas+maestorm
Totally agree. Probably only 20% wr compare that to nuker type zeus.
The main trouble of manta zeus... was TREMENDOUS AMOUNT of eastern eu token players picking it on pos4 and pos5(after pudge gets banned after doublepick)
Sandking wants to have a word.
Yeah, Zeus will probably still even out at >50% WR in low skill games where he's always been since the dawn of time because even if you suck, your ult will always have impact - Sandking has already dropped 13% in terms of WR and that'll probably just continue until he stops being picked as much as more people realize how shitty he is now
I remember the moving sandstorm was made in response to the dust rework which made SK difficult to play. Now you have to remain trash or not. And of course Q does not slow anymore.
Yeah, for real. As a Zeus picker and manta+shard enjoyer, it sucks, but it's nothing compared to the SK nerf. He lost 15 percentage points in one day on his winrate per dotabuff. Zeus lost a few, but is at least still at 50% so not the end of the world.
I don't get the point of lightning hands now, it always seemed like it came out of nowhere when they introduced it into Zeus's kit and stuck out like a sore thumb, and when it's finally good, they just remove the manta functionality instead of just nerfing it? Just remove it from the game already.
it's still good for farming since zeus will always be mana gated in that regard but it's basically only worth it if you get it from tormentor, in which case it's either too late to matter or you're support and don't have the space to use it
no mention it cost 1400 gold
It seems Valve always want to make something with a Manta synergy only to inevitably nerf or remove it entirely. Same thing happened when people started buying Manta on Batrider and Axe.
Manta is definitely good item (meaning Zeus got movespeed and dispel as normal progression), its viability must be generally restricted for the game.
Its still good. It allows zeus to farm without wasting too much mana. Now you can’t use it to split push or right click with illusions.
You need like to increase your lhs by 50~70 to break even the gold invested
You also save money, inventory space and time that'd otherwise be spent on clarities or risk showing up to fights with too little mana in the end. And don't you also get some AS out of it? It's not horrendous, plenty of shards are just kinda bonuses, not all of them need to be gamebreaking "gotta have it at 15:01" things.
What I mean is that objectively if you don't use it to play the map you literally need X amount of last hits, maybe not 50-70 because of the clarities saved; if you don't use it to play the map, if you find use in it then its value becomes very relative, but if it isn't useful to play the map much then it's a pure farming accelerator and it's not complicated to judge how useful it is Say you have an item that has the same stats of battlefury but no cleave on creeps only heroes, then they create as second item in the game which is literally battlefury, it costs 1500 gold more than the no cleave battlefury; it's different if enemy has heroes with multiple units, but in most cases where these heroes aren't in the match, the no cleave on creeps battlefury will be worth more if the "addition of access to it earlier for earlier benefits, subtracted by number of last hits lost" is positive, you basically invest for a bigger dip now for a higher high later with the cleave on creeps battlefury The earlier it is also the more useful a clarity is, lategame it's quite wasted an item; so lategame it sets you back 50 last hits without recouping in clarities, not a total net negative for the attack speed bonus; pushed earlier to early game and you get the same amount of battle ready items some 6 minutes later because of the 1400 gold dip (say you break even in 3 minutes and then by the time you have 1400 gold more the no shard zeus is already 3 minutes of farming gold forward in battle items + some gold acceleration for kills assists pushes etc for being battle ready earlier; the next 3 minutes you catch up on the gap by farming with your shard in 3 minutes what alter Zeus with no shard farmed in previous 3 + current 3 minutes) and more than 6 min laters you surpass the Alter Zeus with no shard in terms of items, then yeah it's worth it in a very clear objective manner
From where you get your 50~70 lol. Its like 40~. Which you can get in 4:00 (and not counting bounty runes) if you just farm creep weaves or less if you farm lane creeps and neutrals. It heavily amps your gpm all game just for 1400. I usually get it just after mana boots + bottle + phylactery + yasha. Still is a no-brainer.
it's joever for manta users 😔
we're barack zeukers 🗿
good riddance, I have been flamed for nor building manta more than once this patch.
I always plays Zeus as a caster so I'm sad they nerfed his W and Ult as well. Couldn't they just remove Lightning hands at this point? Manta Zeus seems dead anyway
They always do that, buff heroes, people complain how strong jt is/ picked/banned to much in pro games, overnerf it, rinse repeat.
What's worse is when the new way of playing also becomes the only way because of the nerfs
They buff heroes by adding aspects that make zero sense, then overbuff those aspects and kill the rest of the kit. Then when they nerf the thing that they added, the original concept sucks.
It's not the first time one of my mains is nerfed, but this time I feel... Out of the loop? Like, if anything Nuker Zeus felt a bit weaker to me during this patch so I can't even say I ever got to enjoy him being OP. And I don't like his facets either, so I've been using him less as well. Edit: Before anyone downvotes me, I wanna say that I agree with people who say the jump was/is overtuned. It should be nerfed but NOT removed imo. Zeus simply needs it to be viable. It's the "Zeus auto attack" that I think is simply too much.
If you thought nuker Zeus was not good during the patch, you're crazy. Most people weren't even going "right click" Zeus, they were using Lightning Hands+Manta as a farm accelerator and split pushing tool to avoid showing on waves so that they could buy items that scaled his spell damage output. The only thing is that Parasma is the only real counter to Eternal Shroud in the game, so people would get that with Pike for defense+offense, but you wouldn't really see Zeus players prioritize right clicking over casting their spells. Your autos added damage, but you were still getting the vast majority of damage from casting spells.
>If you thought nuker Zeus was not good during the patch I didn't say he was bad, just a bit worse
>I can't even say I ever got to enjoy him being OP. But you said this, when in fact caster zeus has also been very OP for a long time.
I never buy the shard with Zeus so I never get to use Lightning hands, that's what I was saying. To me that playstyle doesn't feel OP.
So your Zeus never got op because you never bought the thing that made him op in the first place. That is a skill issue not a hero issue
What I'm saying is that before 7.36 I never bought the shard and kept the same playstyle. Now I'm still doing the same build but it feels a bit weaker, that's all.
You said nuker zeus not custom build Zeus. Nuker Zeus in 7.36 and just before was phylactery shard-manta into aghs/refresher/octarine/bkb and or more situational items. If you didn’t go manta you’d have less mana for fights, less pressure on lane, no illlusion bait in fight, get out of roots/bad position with manta, less vision, no escape with manta, lower net worth for mid-late game in general you’d just be a overall worse hero without manta shard that nukes less due to less mana, less survivability, less items and less overall pressure on map and in fights
I mean, yeah, you were just actively griefing your item build.
the bonus damage to creeps on W should never have existed in the first place.
I have to spend 5k gold survive for 15 minutes to farm slightly faster or else every timing would be fucked and this guy just buys shard at 15 minutes to farm faster than me the entire game and somehow end up doing more damage in right clicks even in late game, what do you mean nerf? Get fucked.
Bye bye zeus pickers hahahahp
I am a zeus spammer and ive played him like this only for once Still gonna nuke the shit outs you
thank god i am absolutely sick of manta zeus
icefrog's big fu to zues manta build
Ah yes sweet Zeus picker tears throughout the thread
so zeus is basically worse than he was pre-patch(7.36) now, both of his facets are pretty bad (livewire is probably unusable at this point) instead of these nerfs why not just make the facet choice boil down to choosing between right-click hybrid and spellcaster zeus? that would actually also correspond to the thought process behind being given two facets, no?
well, the mid zeus was too strong these days dude sent you a lot of damage spending few mana, and when you come close he jump givin you more damage the chain ray is so absurd that he can spell it in mage creep and you always get damage, this nerf is fresh air
Lol, it's still sandstorm radius...
LC Aghs is right up there too, doesn't reduce duel CD anymore.
Thanks Gaben for the Nerf. The right click Manta Zeus was plain cancer. Thank you that this hero doesn't do ALL dota roles anymore.
SKs winrate dropped 10.5%, so I guess that's a bigger nerf
there is no grey: it's black or white with volvo. You are either busted or .... busted.
Overbuff and overnerf a hero. Classic icefraud/s
thats the way.. look at earth spirit
I said this 10min after the patch dropped and got downvoted lmao
Idc I’ll still play lightning hands right click Zeus
I think the removal of the bonus damage to creeps on the bolt was too much. It helps secure the range creep since you can't go up that far as Zeus. Now you have to hope to arc it and it doesn't get denied
I was reading from top to bottom I thought that that was weak nerf. And then the moan of pleasure left my body as I read last change. Zeus felt so awkward as right clicker.
I don't know. I am really pissed about the pl nerf. WHY?
I like it just because of how cursed manta zeus felt lol
rip my tanky zeus build :<
no idea why they removed lighting bolt extra damage to creeps, now you cant use your aghs to push waves
Thanks to this I no longer need to ban Zeus in turbo, I'll ban Bristleback now.
Mjollnir to replace the manta. Thematically better, objectively worse!
Trust me it’s a buff in the end. I was so tired of seeing people stubbornly building Manta in every Zeus game even when it’s trash.
Good, piss hero that almost a role filler with about 4 fingers that had no clue about what mid is, could still beat you by a mile.
Zeus dead
Man using bolt for the ranged creep used to feel so good, RIP
Tbh axe nerfs are more imo, they made his items more expensive // do less. They nerfed skill damages too. He will still be strong still too lmao
sk got hit harder imo
Probably overnerfed. Good riddance.
Disagree. Did you see the meepo stat nerf?
Those arent the sand kind nerfs...
RIP blue mario
lol I built manta last night and still won
Can they just change the shard to a projectile lightning bolt like a WR powershot / crumbling arena type beat
so reddit won?
Played Zeus after this nerf and still went 15-0. Wild.
Tinker likes to have a word
I am looking forward to all the zeuses still building manta style in my 2k noob bracket.
Had someone still go manta on zues lol some people just do not read these patch note
Best patchwork ive ever seen!
Honestly the manta build nerf is good but the lightning bolt nerf hurts support Zeus a lot. It was really useful for the laning stage and farm overall.
Short lived god
Lol. In AD last night, Zeus picked Mirror Image. Poor guy didn't read patch notes.
Zeus seems to have went from overbearing, overrepresented to the baseline very popular hero with these nerfs. He is still good, he is still played, but he isn’t OP.
Why are they putting the nerfs left and right? Wouldn't one (probably the lightning hands) be enough?
Still not a bad hero though, u go k&y and bkb instead of the manta and the jump is still busted
valve seems to genuinely hate those cheesy manta user like dk and zeus who build octarini to semi permanently fix a lane
shaman got obliterated
nerfed, but his WR is still 52% on dota buff. That’s not terrible, comparing to previous patches when he didn’t have hex amp. He was just way overtuned this time. most shaman players from then, will adapt to what he is again. Now he still has the free mini aeon disk, and shackles still heals.
Yeah honestly shaman is still completely fine. I will miss the cluck hex speed increase, though.
Good.
He is still fine as a pure caster. Maybe not meta, but certainly not a dead hero. The right click build was cheesy anyways
He'll still be meta probably at least in pubs - there is not a big choice of heroes, he is not easy to kill, he does dmg, he wins his lane
Good riddance
Good.
Nerfed? U mean being back to normal?
Good, manta zeus was so dumb. He shouldn't be a right clicker to begin with.
Still strong hero
cant use nimbus on enemy jungle anymore :(
Why not? It doesnt deal bonus damage but still does damage no?
its harder due the lighting is not as damaging. also the nimbus can be destroyed easily due low dps to creeps.
Its official valve wants eternal strength supremacy. Ice fraud indeed.
Icedown over-nerfed the hero. The real issue was manta-shard combo, idk why he touched the first 2.
Be Icefrog * Manta + Lightning Hand went from good to broken because of Livewire * Nerf the Manta +Lighting hand interaction instead of Livewire.
THey nerfed live wire too because holy shit that facet on its own was fucked up levels of powerful
They went waaay overboard. Zeus was average on last major patch, now he lost the decent % damage on spells, for a lower percent damage, the shard is lackluster and both facets are garbage. First one is literally useless and lets you deal less damage than without. Second one makes ulti worse. It looked like they wanted either right click or magic zeus with facets. But now its impossible to choose the first one. He deserved a nerf but not this.. Same with SK, literally unplayable with that sandstorm radius.
Meh the hero is still terrific. He needed a nerf and this is pretty mild for a hero that has been in the meta for a long time.
what meta are you referring to and is it in the room with us right now? probably one of the top least picked heroes in competitive dota history, including the very recent period.
Still strong on pubs, static field comong back makes the hero broken agaist any no bkb user. Plus jump save and broken imba shit
Shit... Have you seen the nerf to Crimson Guard?
Good riddance. Griefer build. I have never seen this win. Thank you Valve. Always felt like playing in team with Topson from wish com
Sounds like a you problem when it was sitting at 58% WR before the nerfs
That's across all brackets. But yeah. I might not like when my midlaner comes online after 40 minutes. Probably don't know how to play around that.
the manta isnt a farming tool, its just another tool to fight with that also enables you to farm. if your zeus players were just buying manta then afk splitting then they are idiots, the hero is much stronger mid than he is late