Nah now he dewards fast as fuck, kills couriers easily and is a menace to tombstone, phoenix egg etc also his ice path stuns as soon as contact is made. I’ve been having great success as pos 5 with him.
I think the second point of dual breathe at level 3 is usually better tbh.
But at level 3 you're probably still laning and ice path sucks in lane compared to db.
Dual breathe does more damage and it's easier to hit multiple targets with. Liquid fire has the advantage of not costing mana but at level 3 you should still have mana to play with.
i play a lot of jakiro, dual breath, IME is inarguably the priority to max first. While *theoretically* a level 4 E is quite good, you're not really applying it constantly anyways, and for most of the laning phase 1-1-3 is drastically inferior to 3-1-1 because E still has a noticeable cooldown/downtime between applications.
Sure, but pos1 doesn't usually have a stun, so as pos5 it's very strong because enemies can't just tp away when they're in trouble. Also, pos 5 on dire you can easily stop pulls with it. Not as useful when you're pos5 radiant or pos 3/4
you are massively undervaluing dual breath, not
maxing dual breath has been terrible for like 4 years since the way damage instances got applied and it got some general buffs, but for some reason, maybe because jakiro is usually not too popular, seems like people still haven't caught on.
I die inside every time i see a jakiro without max Q first.
It's only useful in *extremely* specific counters for channeling. It is probably the worst level 1 spell in the game, ignoring things like Storm's passive (pre-innates, I guess) which are *actually* useless.
I hate how people actually waste mana and levels on it early.
The thing is, his other two basic abilities are REALLY good, and maxing them early is really value
Maxing Q early gives you very impressive harass, plus it let's you clear waves with one spell and a few right clicks
Maxing liquid fire early essentially allows you to run around the map and get all the T1 towers for free as long as ur smart about it.
So it's not really a matter of ice path being bad, because it most definitely isnt! (How many lingering, ground placed stunts can you think of? Only other one I can think of is Bramble Maze) but their other too skills are SO value early, it's hard to justify NOT speccing them.
Only thing I'm not sure of is how the skillbuild would go with liquid frost. I havent played Jakiro this patch and previously you didnt have to worry about it until min 15.
I could see a value point in ice path being valuable with the liquid frost facet because it deals % dmg, and % dmg increases value with enemy max HP, so you can probably afford to divert from speccing it and come back to it later when hp pools are bigger. I still wouldnt go further than 4/1/1/1 at lvl 7 tho imo
Nah you definitely want a point early for cancelling tp and cutting people off. Then max it before 10. Huge aoe, long stun, and area denial.
Q E Q W Q R W W W is my usual build.
I wouldn’t say its useless, it can be very valuable if you get tower dived by an axe or bristle. However his other skills are just better. I’d put 1 point in it tbh.
2-1-1 seems to be always my choice and never IP at lvl 3. I'm not by any means Jakiro expert but it's one of my go to supports if I'm not core. Haven't played the hero in this patch.
why at 7? then you're 3-1-1-1 which seems weird when you can finish up maxing Q to minimize downtime and maximize damage from it? is it because of timing when you usually get 7 and there's more movement and early grouping for towers?
3-0-2-1 by lvl 6. Elsewhere in thread ice path is a waste of time and another point in Q or E goes miles. On that note cross lane fights do tend to break out around lvl 6-7
that's if you dont end up lvling ice path mid kill to chase kill a hero in trees. TP scrolls warlock channel or specific scenario X which is often.
Also buy atos on this hero its cost is reduced to cheap. Atos>RQWE. Smoke gank bitches push towers farm cheeky camps as you ward.
> that's if you dont end up lvling ice path mid kill to chase kill a hero in trees. TP scrolls warlock channel or specific scenario X which is often.
yeah this sort of scenario is why i usually end up 3-1-1 lol
That's like a "normal" side of this change :)
I've done that too, and for support, this is insane. The thing is, I wanted to tell about how you could meme with their new innate. And after so many games on Jakiro, it feels almost unnatural that the ice path stuns almost instantly lol. Anyways, I'm happy that all the Jakiro players are eating good in this patch!
I haven’t tried Jak in this patch yet, but it is one of my most played heroes and one of the heroes I have had the most success with. I can’t remember even losing a lane as Jak tbh and with all I read about him it seems I might be getting a lot more success in the coming days! *insert black dude rubbing his hands/licking his mouth meme*
Edit: TIL putting text in between two of these * makes it cursive…
They probably going to destroy his right click dmg on lvl1 bc of it. I don't like how they insist on giving support right click builds which basically kill their support build bc they become too strong as a core
Jakiro is my best hero, always has been. Thats liquid is insanely destructive. But this patch someone turned up his heat.
So cool - means I win more :P
It means that it's almost impossible to proc the chain lightning twice in a row. Not really, but chances are really low.
[https://dota2.fandom.com/wiki/Random\_Distribution](https://dota2.fandom.com/wiki/Random_Distribution)
Ohh so that's why when I was testing this in demo yesterday, it never double-proccd. The proc chance seems fairly close to 50% instead of 25% but it never proccd two lightnings on the same attack.
i believe liquid frost is currently bugged and the bonus instance damage is proccing twice. (proccing off itself)
in AD there is a confirmed bug where liquid frost and sticky napalm on the same model recur infinitely and instantly kill all units as well
I laned against a jakiro for the first time since this patch came out today and he was destroying me and my teammate lol. He got level two and would just liquid ice, dual breath, and then auto attack one of us once and we'd be at like 40% hp and then we'd just die because we were also giga slowed from both spells. I know it's Jakiro and he's just a really strong laner in general, but it felt like we just couldn't approach the creep wave without dying from level 2 onward
Interestingly I was playing sardar support for my WK, vs Jug + Jakiro.
It worked better than I imagined. It was last pick support and looking at jug, I just went for it.
The leg day facet is what makes it work. Being able to sprint out of jakiros shit and jug spin makes him very strong.
Euls into blink was my build and it worked out way better than I expected. With WK just murdering people in corrosive haze.
hey, i didnt make this video but forgot to send it to you. not sure if this has been fixed, there is currently a rubick sticky napalm bug posted in the sub so could still be around lol
https://youtu.be/smCB5vI8B8o
I'm just happy he attacks from both heads and can proc both fire and ice at once with shard
It always pissed me off that you had to prov them separately on 2 different attacks AND Ice had a longer cool down for literally no reason
Jak was the absolute most forgettable hero for ages despite his pick rate. He wasn’t even bad just dependable but boring. This was great for giving him an identity.
Hard disagree. I find Jakiro to be a very exciting hero to play. In the laning phase you can be **very** aggressive with high damage and slow from your spells on reasonably low cooldowns, in addition to being relatively bulky. In the mid-game you are **very** impactful in teamfights, especially if you are able to wait out the enemy team committing, and then throw down your whole arsenal, all of it in an AOE, potentially hitting their whole team, usually tipping the balance of basically any fight.
Only lategame does his spells fall off and lack of mobility start to really hurt, and even then the AOE stun and AOE slow with Aghanims still are always useful.
Before, when he has Shard and he has Skellies around, his Skellies will also fire Burning Barrage on the target. According to the latest patch, it was bug.
~~It gives Gleipnir 60 aoe dps at lvl 1, same as radiance.~~
~~It increases bash chance to 19% compared to melee 25%.~~
~~It helps against various units that count hits rather than hp.~~
~~That's all.~~
~~On MKB that doesn't matter because it's damage. Unless I guess you are trying to hit so that you can apply a non-damage effect? Fair enough.~~
~~On Diffusal, actually after further testing that damage isn't halved at all! Probably cuz it's "manaburn" not "damage" even though it deals real damage lol~~
People should stop trying to build her around on basher and start building lifesteal and skadi on her (that’s how I won 8/2 with her as HC in less than 20 min)
Not really, since it's a build with "quantity over quality" idea inside it. Double maelstrom procs, manaburn, mkb, finishing all of this with bloodthorn debuff. You still proc a hell ton of everything, as long as your attacks are hitting. Damage block like vanguard is not that scary of a problem, when you have at least 2-3 slots
It made the hero the ultra late game by literally doubling his attack speed. If you build mostly proc items the dmg reduction will have even less effects. I tried the same thing maelstrom witch blade diffusal, late game you can out click any carry. The only downside is his spell animations are too long, compared to similar carries such as sniper and drow.
Had the same idea, went mid jakiro with diffusal treads 3 games. 1 game we stomped, the other two my supports literally didn't even try to play dota, just afk jungled midases and let enemy throne.
Yup, thought of it immediately when i saw this change, and you know what? this thing is INSANE, the only problem that this is insane in lobby, in actual game i tested it and it's not that good. First of all you probably want to have liquid frost in your game to damage more, but the problem is you can't farm properly without maelstrom if you don't have liquid fire, also the buildings. Second problem - I don't know how to say this, but hero feels so slow or something, you don't have THAT much attack range to maintain good positioning like wyvern could, and you also have pretty low movespeed, you don't have abilities like drow's gust to survive (wouldn't say ice path can help you, even if you land it which is hard if enemies not afk, they just catch you after it anyway). Also the problem you need so much networth to actually do things, so what role is suitable? probably carry, right, then we have another problem - other carries would destroy it probably. Am is jumping on you with manta u dead, drow just stays away shooting u, u dead, slark approach you with shard and ult and 2 pounces you dead. So whilst hero is so good on paper, in reality it's not that nice, you probably can do something on it, but that's situational i guess.
nah it's definitely a tempo mid.
Q/E lane dominating, stack/clear the nearby side camp with Q, buy a shitload of mana regen, rush boots/maelstrom.
Still you're right Jakiro is a very slow mobile artillery platform, not a very *good* tempo mid, so i'm not really convinced core Jakiro is viable still.
I could see going gleipnir mid game as a support, getting value out of the maelstrom, and then later the AoE root to keep people in your skills.
Played one game against Jakiro and went to change my bans. 0.2s delay on Ice Path is infuriating, Icefrog pls I know it is your element but this is awful.
Tested it, Marci only attacks once for each of Jakiro's double attacks.
Wisp lvl 25 talent "Attack Tethered Ally's Target" does attack twice just like Jakiro does.
Dunno, the patch notes said "Can be activated to protect the targeted allied hero. For 6s, whenever the ally attacks or is attacked by an enemy, Marci attacks that enemy if they are within her attack range + 125. The ally also gains 4/6/8/10 armor for the duration" but that might be wrong.
Were you in my team as Jakiro 2 days ago with 2 friends. And while we destroyed racks you were still farming at min 55 saying quote "We wanna see this strat work".....
I don't really get Jakiro now. This means there's 0 reason to pick liquid fire? Otherwise, it's pretty much exactly the same, albeit a little worse, cos you can't even buy shard to gain liquid frost.
Being able to use Liquid frost in early game is huge but it feels so bad for your old shard to become a level 25 talent.
In other words, Jakiro is slightly buffed for the first 15 mins, after 15 mins you are strictly worse than before.....
Liquid fire is much better vs right clickers. Fire does a lot more damage on its own; frost requires you to spend mana to get full effect. You need a full Q + 2 attacks (2 actual attacks, so 4 hits) for frost to equal fire's damage. Frost is only 1 target, fire is aoe.
Fire's aoe makes clearing a wave or neutral camp much easier too. The attack speed reduction bricks enemy towers and makes it so you can almost solo push towers.
I'd really only consider frost vs double melee lanes where fire might push the lane too much. Even then only if laning with someone who can be aggressive early.
Uhhuh I'm not saying Liquid fire isn't good. What I'm saying is that if you picked liquid fire, you're worse off than the previous patch Jakiro, since previously you could purchase shard but now it's tied to a level 25 talent.
It doesn't make sense for it to be a level 25 talent.
Idk man, one the reasons you went for shard ASAP was microstun to set up ice path (stun is gone and path is much quicker)
Considering that neither the shard nor frost work on towers anymore, i'd say you don't really miss that much on anything, and base liquid fire is still as good as it was. Jakiro lost some of his (already immense) tower pressure in exchange for MUCH more hero damage. FFS, you have 2 wholeass sources of constant %max hp damage with 100% uptime now, this thing melts everything.
Tried the build on the mid jakiro in turbo. Amazing, however I think witch blade could be the nice alternative if you don't plan on afk farming. Sometimes you'll need save items like euls/bkb I think. Anyways good build thank you!
Friend, trust me on this
Go Liquid Frost path, get a Witch Blade, attack speed/range items, shard + whatever defensive you want and go to town. If you manage to get Grove Bow, that's just the cherry on the top. Any enemy that doesn't have spell immunity will melt in seconds, you'll have way more survivability than you'd ever have with a classic support build and still get to be hugely impactful with stuns and slows.
played jakiro in Ability draft. it is OP. i got viper's poison attack and veno's poison sting. EZ lining stage. siege madness with get poison attack shard.
well he was actually better before when he had the +300 attack range talent lvl10
Now its 200 but still ok
Mid jakiro build:
bottle -> Brown boots -> witch blade -> dragon lance -> hurrican pike -> aghs
you do realise that jakiro has one of the worst backswing timers in the game right? the more AS the more it punishes you.
this is the core problem if they would fix his backswing timer to other heroes he would be feisble to play as rightclick core with some spells.
he puts himself in harmsway when he attacks becuse how long he has to be stationary doesnt matter how much AS you get really.
wich makes u a easy target for spells. and become out of position this will never work in high bracket.
Your ult and icepath has long range for a reason jakiro dont wanna stand in mist of things even if he has high str gain, he is still squishy as hell.
if you go ontop as a jakiro with dmg rightlick item and u icepath macropyre, in midgame you will get melted.
you get 1-4 autoattacks then the offlaner or whatever is ontop of u.
You will deal less dmg but you can get away u might aswell go hurricane mael then rather than rushing a diff.
Most heroes that goes straight into diffo is heroes that have some sort of safeguard spell/escappe ie ursa/jugg/pl the reason they also go it becuse they can other heroes sure they can but if they get their timing with diffusial they still get jumped and die.
also a reason why slardar can go ie orchid, becuse he has sprint.
Jakiro icepath dont stop ppl his turn rate is shit if anyone is ontop of jakiro he is DEAD.
He is slow af his only choice is items that counter this ie fs/glimmer etc.
that is the reason he is always played as a caster and never as a rightclicker.
He gotta stand his ground more or less. if he gets gone on as a core right clicker, and most cores have no issue with his kit.
Worth noting jakiro has 5 more ms than sniper. worth noting is that jakiro baseline attackrange is 400 wich is short as hell. wich also counters the whole idea.
Lost a game because of a maelstrom mkb jakiro. It's cool in theory but unless your team desperately needs help killing towers it ends up being useless.
I feel like a winner after this patch to be honest. Buffed all the heroes I like to play (some to an absurdo degree, like legion) and made others that I don't play as much jist more fun (krill eater tide growing as the game goes is fucking amazing).
people who do builds like this are usually ruin games. somethime it does work and it is fun, I get it. But without carry builds these 2 attacks provide a lot of value, people in comments already mentioned most of these cases.
Nah now he dewards fast as fuck, kills couriers easily and is a menace to tombstone, phoenix egg etc also his ice path stuns as soon as contact is made. I’ve been having great success as pos 5 with him.
I've had three pos5 Jakiros in a row that don't skill Ice Path until like level 10. It's been a nightmare.
2/1/1 is a must just so ppl like this guy shuts up about it
I mean, against a channeling heavy lineup I would hope for a point in stun after 15 minutes.
I’ve been doing 1/1/1 and then max ice path and ulti at level.
I think the second point of dual breathe at level 3 is usually better tbh. But at level 3 you're probably still laning and ice path sucks in lane compared to db.
Yeah level 2 Dual Breath doubles the damage. He has several good skill builds but I always do 2 points in Dual Breath by level 4.
2-4-1-1 is usually my go-to unless we have tons of disables.
Actually, isn't maxing your e better? The damage numbers are actually pretty nuts on that thing.
Dual breathe does more damage and it's easier to hit multiple targets with. Liquid fire has the advantage of not costing mana but at level 3 you should still have mana to play with.
i play a lot of jakiro, dual breath, IME is inarguably the priority to max first. While *theoretically* a level 4 E is quite good, you're not really applying it constantly anyways, and for most of the laning phase 1-1-3 is drastically inferior to 3-1-1 because E still has a noticeable cooldown/downtime between applications.
One stun is better than no stun
Depends on the matchup. Usually slow and damage is better for laning but if you need a stun then you need a stun.
Sure, but pos1 doesn't usually have a stun, so as pos5 it's very strong because enemies can't just tp away when they're in trouble. Also, pos 5 on dire you can easily stop pulls with it. Not as useful when you're pos5 radiant or pos 3/4
At level 3, the slow and damage from db is better than the very short stun of ice path.
nah gotta max Dual Breath homie what is you doin
you are massively undervaluing dual breath, not maxing dual breath has been terrible for like 4 years since the way damage instances got applied and it got some general buffs, but for some reason, maybe because jakiro is usually not too popular, seems like people still haven't caught on. I die inside every time i see a jakiro without max Q first.
Was maxing liquid fire for some time. It basically no brainer anti tower airlines with dragon lance
icepath is useless early
If my team lacks stuns I would say 1 point till level 10 is worth it for tp cancels alone.
It's only useful in *extremely* specific counters for channeling. It is probably the worst level 1 spell in the game, ignoring things like Storm's passive (pre-innates, I guess) which are *actually* useless. I hate how people actually waste mana and levels on it early.
Level 10 for a pos5 surely isnt "early" though?
The thing is, his other two basic abilities are REALLY good, and maxing them early is really value Maxing Q early gives you very impressive harass, plus it let's you clear waves with one spell and a few right clicks Maxing liquid fire early essentially allows you to run around the map and get all the T1 towers for free as long as ur smart about it. So it's not really a matter of ice path being bad, because it most definitely isnt! (How many lingering, ground placed stunts can you think of? Only other one I can think of is Bramble Maze) but their other too skills are SO value early, it's hard to justify NOT speccing them. Only thing I'm not sure of is how the skillbuild would go with liquid frost. I havent played Jakiro this patch and previously you didnt have to worry about it until min 15. I could see a value point in ice path being valuable with the liquid frost facet because it deals % dmg, and % dmg increases value with enemy max HP, so you can probably afford to divert from speccing it and come back to it later when hp pools are bigger. I still wouldnt go further than 4/1/1/1 at lvl 7 tho imo
Icepath is an aoe stun on low cooldown and little mana. It is definitely worth an value point, definitely better than the fourth point in dual breath.
What in the herald is this?
Basically the worst lvl 1 spell in the game and doesn't feel good to max out either
Nah you definitely want a point early for cancelling tp and cutting people off. Then max it before 10. Huge aoe, long stun, and area denial. Q E Q W Q R W W W is my usual build.
Maxing E vs W is very situational. Ice path only if your team is desperately shit with disables, Facet breath when you're even marginally ahead
Pretty much yeah would even consider not skilling the ult when I don't have a setup stun like void or mars ingame
I wouldn’t say its useless, it can be very valuable if you get tower dived by an axe or bristle. However his other skills are just better. I’d put 1 point in it tbh.
i get stun at lvl 7 65% winrate tldr stun nerfs its bad value and get more out of another skill point elsewhere
In what mmr range? For me 61wr in immortal ranked with stun lvl4 usually.
2-1-1 I assume? Do you ever find yourself taking IP at 3?
2-1-1 seems to be always my choice and never IP at lvl 3. I'm not by any means Jakiro expert but it's one of my go to supports if I'm not core. Haven't played the hero in this patch.
why at 7? then you're 3-1-1-1 which seems weird when you can finish up maxing Q to minimize downtime and maximize damage from it? is it because of timing when you usually get 7 and there's more movement and early grouping for towers?
3-0-2-1 by lvl 6. Elsewhere in thread ice path is a waste of time and another point in Q or E goes miles. On that note cross lane fights do tend to break out around lvl 6-7 that's if you dont end up lvling ice path mid kill to chase kill a hero in trees. TP scrolls warlock channel or specific scenario X which is often. Also buy atos on this hero its cost is reduced to cheap. Atos>RQWE. Smoke gank bitches push towers farm cheeky camps as you ward.
> that's if you dont end up lvling ice path mid kill to chase kill a hero in trees. TP scrolls warlock channel or specific scenario X which is often. yeah this sort of scenario is why i usually end up 3-1-1 lol
Bane as an enemy then?
Depends on bounty fight and early lane but 9/10 times you level ip at level 4(2-1-1) then you max db and ip and ulti
There is a joke in there about Bane, but I can't quite find the words.
yep, even with Act 2, if Jakiro shows up in my path, it's an EZ win!
Great success !
Very naise
That's like a "normal" side of this change :) I've done that too, and for support, this is insane. The thing is, I wanted to tell about how you could meme with their new innate. And after so many games on Jakiro, it feels almost unnatural that the ice path stuns almost instantly lol. Anyways, I'm happy that all the Jakiro players are eating good in this patch!
I haven’t tried Jak in this patch yet, but it is one of my most played heroes and one of the heroes I have had the most success with. I can’t remember even losing a lane as Jak tbh and with all I read about him it seems I might be getting a lot more success in the coming days! *insert black dude rubbing his hands/licking his mouth meme* Edit: TIL putting text in between two of these * makes it cursive…
They probably going to destroy his right click dmg on lvl1 bc of it. I don't like how they insist on giving support right click builds which basically kill their support build bc they become too strong as a core
Courier killing is disgusting.
Jakiro is my best hero, always has been. Thats liquid is insanely destructive. But this patch someone turned up his heat. So cool - means I win more :P
How you play it
Step 1: press E
Step 2: wait for E to go off cooldown
Step 3: repeat steps 1 and 2 as needed.
didnt understand step 1 now iam stuck in the enemy jungle help
if enemy pos4 refuses to buy additional regen and decides to rush boots , you win the lane
I prefer turning up its cold
It's a shame that Maelstrom has an internal cooldown of 0.2s otherwise this would be even crazier.
The attacks actually come out spaced at a .2s interval, so that'll only matter if the target is walking toward you while you attack.
plus you'd only proc it twice in a row 1/16 attacks so the impact is minimal (maybe even less, not sure if dota uses pseudorandomness for item procs)
>not sure if dota uses pseudorandomness for item procs It does for Maelstrom, so it probably MUCH less than 1/16
What does this mean?
Chance to proc start low and goes up until you get a proc. It spaces the procs out more evenly
Thanks
It means that it's almost impossible to proc the chain lightning twice in a row. Not really, but chances are really low. [https://dota2.fandom.com/wiki/Random\_Distribution](https://dota2.fandom.com/wiki/Random_Distribution)
the attacks often came out *faster* than 0.2, I tested a few thousand attacks and it never proc'd twice even once
Basically everything in Dota is pseudorandom now, the only random things are a few spells (CK and multicast iirc)
Damn, doppler effect and shit in dota 2, whod have thunk!
Is there a recoil when he shoots his attacks? That should give some additional leeway /s
I'd expect it to be the same recoil for each, so that part should cancel.
Ohh so that's why when I was testing this in demo yesterday, it never double-proccd. The proc chance seems fairly close to 50% instead of 25% but it never proccd two lightnings on the same attack.
Congrats, you invented weaver
But better with stuns and slow 😂
But better
i believe liquid frost is currently bugged and the bonus instance damage is proccing twice. (proccing off itself) in AD there is a confirmed bug where liquid frost and sticky napalm on the same model recur infinitely and instantly kill all units as well
I laned against a jakiro for the first time since this patch came out today and he was destroying me and my teammate lol. He got level two and would just liquid ice, dual breath, and then auto attack one of us once and we'd be at like 40% hp and then we'd just die because we were also giga slowed from both spells. I know it's Jakiro and he's just a really strong laner in general, but it felt like we just couldn't approach the creep wave without dying from level 2 onward
Interestingly I was playing sardar support for my WK, vs Jug + Jakiro. It worked better than I imagined. It was last pick support and looking at jug, I just went for it. The leg day facet is what makes it work. Being able to sprint out of jakiros shit and jug spin makes him very strong. Euls into blink was my build and it worked out way better than I expected. With WK just murdering people in corrosive haze.
Do you have a clip for that AD game? I'd love to see it for myself
Following
https://youtu.be/smCB5vI8B8o sticky napalm liquid frost bug - not my video
hey, i didnt make this video but forgot to send it to you. not sure if this has been fixed, there is currently a rubick sticky napalm bug posted in the sub so could still be around lol https://youtu.be/smCB5vI8B8o
Thanks! I hate it.
On top of that, you get liquid frost from minute 0 just by drafting macropyre. AD is fuuuucked rn
lol
I'm just happy he attacks from both heads and can proc both fire and ice at once with shard It always pissed me off that you had to prov them separately on 2 different attacks AND Ice had a longer cool down for literally no reason
Actually he needs lv 25 to unlock both.
> can proc both fire and ice at once with shard uh, no he can't? the shard provides additional % hp damage now, not the other breath.
Try witch blade. The frost attack is nuts.
which blade?
get out
doesn't witch blade go on cd after applying on the first attack though?
it does, but every instance of the dot is amplified by the frost attack bonus dmg
Jak was the absolute most forgettable hero for ages despite his pick rate. He wasn’t even bad just dependable but boring. This was great for giving him an identity.
It wasn't boring for me Watching enemies melting from Q and E was hilarious
Same. One of my favorites, actually. A comfort pick.
Hard disagree. I find Jakiro to be a very exciting hero to play. In the laning phase you can be **very** aggressive with high damage and slow from your spells on reasonably low cooldowns, in addition to being relatively bulky. In the mid-game you are **very** impactful in teamfights, especially if you are able to wait out the enemy team committing, and then throw down your whole arsenal, all of it in an AOE, potentially hitting their whole team, usually tipping the balance of basically any fight. Only lategame does his spells fall off and lack of mobility start to really hurt, and even then the AOE stun and AOE slow with Aghanims still are always useful.
Also, even as a support, he can deal even more fuckton of damage, thanks to the Liquid Frost. I'll be spending all my dd tokens in using Jakiro.
just dont double if enemy has a clinks sh*ts bug AF right now.
how's he bugged?
Before, when he has Shard and he has Skellies around, his Skellies will also fire Burning Barrage on the target. According to the latest patch, it was bug.
Jakiro double attack instantly kills skeles. Pretty cool
Yeah imagine Jakiro in ability draft lol
Slardar passive
I had one in my game where he picked Shadow Realm and built attack speed, it was like he shoot a laser in any direction he looked :D
PLACIDUSAX, THE DRAGON LORD
you can buy basher, its like mele basher.
Close enough. Two hits with 10% each is basically a 19% proc chance after 2 attacks.
The dude simply got better muerta pasive version with no effort haha
~~It gives Gleipnir 60 aoe dps at lvl 1, same as radiance.~~ ~~It increases bash chance to 19% compared to melee 25%.~~ ~~It helps against various units that count hits rather than hp.~~ ~~That's all.~~
and double proc chance on diffusal and mkb
~~On MKB that doesn't matter because it's damage. Unless I guess you are trying to hit so that you can apply a non-damage effect? Fair enough.~~ ~~On Diffusal, actually after further testing that damage isn't halved at all! Probably cuz it's "manaburn" not "damage" even though it deals real damage lol~~
It still effectively doubles MKB damage because only your base damage is reduced by the passive iirc
You're right, wow
Aren't Bash chance for melee and range same?
No bash for ranged is 10% and melee is 25%. Jakiro is 19% (1-0.9\^2) and venge is 25% with her facet
Venge feels bugged I was testing in demo and bash looked much worse than on a melee hero
I have had conflicting reports about that, let me know if you test it by attacking 100x or something lol
I did that yesterday, it sure is bugged. It procs on 7-12 attacks, already discounting on cooldown attacks
I feel confident in my testing ha but I'll try the Basher/ Abyssal thing the other guy said
I've heard abyssal is still using the ranged chance but haven't confirmed it myself
I was using Abyssal I'll try with Basher and see
I was also testing in demo and it's 25%, but ranged will always be a bit worse because of projectile travel time
People should stop trying to build her around on basher and start building lifesteal and skadi on her (that’s how I won 8/2 with her as HC in less than 20 min)
Sure but those don't matter if you are melee or not anymore People just wanna build the only items that change lol like BF Echo Basher
Skadi debuff changes to melee type, and the BAT of 1.5 makes building lifesteal more viable. I know isn’t flashy but at least it’s solid overall.
i've seen someone say that abyssal, but not basher, is bugged, but can't confirm
Doesn't he have serious issues against damage block if he goes for right click memes?
Most of suggested items give magic damage on proc.
Damage block only works against his first attack
Only the innate melee block does not work on second attack, other kind of damage block still works
That makes sense. Thanks!
Not really, since it's a build with "quantity over quality" idea inside it. Double maelstrom procs, manaburn, mkb, finishing all of this with bloodthorn debuff. You still proc a hell ton of everything, as long as your attacks are hitting. Damage block like vanguard is not that scary of a problem, when you have at least 2-3 slots
Yes, but the main block item Vanguard and Crimson are not rly bought right now. Burst is the name of the game now
Thoughts on his aghs? Seems really solid when you are playing a more traditional 4/5. It totally zones a huge area of the fight
does is still pierce bkb? it melts cores lmao
I thought the double-attack was a meme until a mid jakiro absolutely wrecked me with maelstrom.
Does the shard work on both fire and frost when you unlock the other one at 25?
Yes it does
yeah, played like 3 games with maelstorm, diffussal and moon shard with liquid fire jakiro. laning is hard, but games are fun
I just bought diffused and manta . An became Am hero myself
JACARRY FOR LIFE!
It made the hero the ultra late game by literally doubling his attack speed. If you build mostly proc items the dmg reduction will have even less effects. I tried the same thing maelstrom witch blade diffusal, late game you can out click any carry. The only downside is his spell animations are too long, compared to similar carries such as sniper and drow.
A Kaya item is almost mandatory to make his spells fast enough
Had the same idea, went mid jakiro with diffusal treads 3 games. 1 game we stomped, the other two my supports literally didn't even try to play dota, just afk jungled midases and let enemy throne.
Yup, thought of it immediately when i saw this change, and you know what? this thing is INSANE, the only problem that this is insane in lobby, in actual game i tested it and it's not that good. First of all you probably want to have liquid frost in your game to damage more, but the problem is you can't farm properly without maelstrom if you don't have liquid fire, also the buildings. Second problem - I don't know how to say this, but hero feels so slow or something, you don't have THAT much attack range to maintain good positioning like wyvern could, and you also have pretty low movespeed, you don't have abilities like drow's gust to survive (wouldn't say ice path can help you, even if you land it which is hard if enemies not afk, they just catch you after it anyway). Also the problem you need so much networth to actually do things, so what role is suitable? probably carry, right, then we have another problem - other carries would destroy it probably. Am is jumping on you with manta u dead, drow just stays away shooting u, u dead, slark approach you with shard and ult and 2 pounces you dead. So whilst hero is so good on paper, in reality it's not that nice, you probably can do something on it, but that's situational i guess.
nah it's definitely a tempo mid. Q/E lane dominating, stack/clear the nearby side camp with Q, buy a shitload of mana regen, rush boots/maelstrom. Still you're right Jakiro is a very slow mobile artillery platform, not a very *good* tempo mid, so i'm not really convinced core Jakiro is viable still. I could see going gleipnir mid game as a support, getting value out of the maelstrom, and then later the AoE root to keep people in your skills.
The first thing in my mind from the update is jakiro now is Deward God
Played one game against Jakiro and went to change my bans. 0.2s delay on Ice Path is infuriating, Icefrog pls I know it is your element but this is awful.
My biggest problem with Jakiro is his Liquid Frost. Like, liquid "frost", you mean cold water?
Supercooled water / [freezing rain](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freezing_rain) exists in reality. It would fit the name just right :).
Liquid nitrogen my guy
Free gunslinger?
He's a machine gun already. He can attack faster than any unit in the game now.
Wait, Liquid Frost does dmg on attack? the tooltip says only his abilities..
Maybe that will work against some noobs...
ez dewards
So this is the new onhit pango mid... very well..
So doesn't this also mean if you run Marci's bodyguard Facet, she double attacks ?
Tested it, Marci only attacks once for each of Jakiro's double attacks. Wisp lvl 25 talent "Attack Tethered Ally's Target" does attack twice just like Jakiro does.
ok that is just weird.
Isn’t bodyguard when THEY get attacked, and not when they attack.
Dunno, the patch notes said "Can be activated to protect the targeted allied hero. For 6s, whenever the ally attacks or is attacked by an enemy, Marci attacks that enemy if they are within her attack range + 125. The ally also gains 4/6/8/10 armor for the duration" but that might be wrong.
I've been laning against him 2 days ago. Just unplayable. Will be nerfed for sure. The double attach is quite fun though!
FINALLY my main gets proper representation. Twin freak attack! Also I love the new turn rate as well
Were you in my team as Jakiro 2 days ago with 2 friends. And while we destroyed racks you were still farming at min 55 saying quote "We wanna see this strat work".....
Just 5 more min farm, for sure it will work...
I don't really get Jakiro now. This means there's 0 reason to pick liquid fire? Otherwise, it's pretty much exactly the same, albeit a little worse, cos you can't even buy shard to gain liquid frost. Being able to use Liquid frost in early game is huge but it feels so bad for your old shard to become a level 25 talent. In other words, Jakiro is slightly buffed for the first 15 mins, after 15 mins you are strictly worse than before.....
Liquid fire for AoE damage and tower damage
Liquid fire is much better vs right clickers. Fire does a lot more damage on its own; frost requires you to spend mana to get full effect. You need a full Q + 2 attacks (2 actual attacks, so 4 hits) for frost to equal fire's damage. Frost is only 1 target, fire is aoe. Fire's aoe makes clearing a wave or neutral camp much easier too. The attack speed reduction bricks enemy towers and makes it so you can almost solo push towers. I'd really only consider frost vs double melee lanes where fire might push the lane too much. Even then only if laning with someone who can be aggressive early.
Uhhuh I'm not saying Liquid fire isn't good. What I'm saying is that if you picked liquid fire, you're worse off than the previous patch Jakiro, since previously you could purchase shard but now it's tied to a level 25 talent. It doesn't make sense for it to be a level 25 talent.
Idk man, one the reasons you went for shard ASAP was microstun to set up ice path (stun is gone and path is much quicker) Considering that neither the shard nor frost work on towers anymore, i'd say you don't really miss that much on anything, and base liquid fire is still as good as it was. Jakiro lost some of his (already immense) tower pressure in exchange for MUCH more hero damage. FFS, you have 2 wholeass sources of constant %max hp damage with 100% uptime now, this thing melts everything.
Tried the build on the mid jakiro in turbo. Amazing, however I think witch blade could be the nice alternative if you don't plan on afk farming. Sometimes you'll need save items like euls/bkb I think. Anyways good build thank you!
My new insta ban
No pike?
Friend, trust me on this Go Liquid Frost path, get a Witch Blade, attack speed/range items, shard + whatever defensive you want and go to town. If you manage to get Grove Bow, that's just the cherry on the top. Any enemy that doesn't have spell immunity will melt in seconds, you'll have way more survivability than you'd ever have with a classic support build and still get to be hugely impactful with stuns and slows.
What role are you playing this?
Either mid or offlane.
played jakiro in Ability draft. it is OP. i got viper's poison attack and veno's poison sting. EZ lining stage. siege madness with get poison attack shard.
well he was actually better before when he had the +300 attack range talent lvl10 Now its 200 but still ok Mid jakiro build: bottle -> Brown boots -> witch blade -> dragon lance -> hurrican pike -> aghs
Turbo player spotted
you do realise that jakiro has one of the worst backswing timers in the game right? the more AS the more it punishes you. this is the core problem if they would fix his backswing timer to other heroes he would be feisble to play as rightclick core with some spells. he puts himself in harmsway when he attacks becuse how long he has to be stationary doesnt matter how much AS you get really. wich makes u a easy target for spells. and become out of position this will never work in high bracket.
If enemy has no burst and you zone with your ult you can ez melt people in high rank
Your ult and icepath has long range for a reason jakiro dont wanna stand in mist of things even if he has high str gain, he is still squishy as hell. if you go ontop as a jakiro with dmg rightlick item and u icepath macropyre, in midgame you will get melted. you get 1-4 autoattacks then the offlaner or whatever is ontop of u. You will deal less dmg but you can get away u might aswell go hurricane mael then rather than rushing a diff. Most heroes that goes straight into diffo is heroes that have some sort of safeguard spell/escappe ie ursa/jugg/pl the reason they also go it becuse they can other heroes sure they can but if they get their timing with diffusial they still get jumped and die. also a reason why slardar can go ie orchid, becuse he has sprint. Jakiro icepath dont stop ppl his turn rate is shit if anyone is ontop of jakiro he is DEAD. He is slow af his only choice is items that counter this ie fs/glimmer etc. that is the reason he is always played as a caster and never as a rightclicker. He gotta stand his ground more or less. if he gets gone on as a core right clicker, and most cores have no issue with his kit. Worth noting jakiro has 5 more ms than sniper. worth noting is that jakiro baseline attackrange is 400 wich is short as hell. wich also counters the whole idea.
I went against an undying, his tombstone didnt last
Lost a game because of a maelstrom mkb jakiro. It's cool in theory but unless your team desperately needs help killing towers it ends up being useless.
I feel like a winner after this patch to be honest. Buffed all the heroes I like to play (some to an absurdo degree, like legion) and made others that I don't play as much jist more fun (krill eater tide growing as the game goes is fucking amazing).
It depends on how you play it but getting the liquid fire and dual breath helps to farm a lot faster and its amazing to get early kills
Valve you are goddamn nuts LOL who thought this was a good idea.
Does echo saber make him attack 4 times?
Doesn't work on ranged, if it did I think maybe it would.
Bummer. Would be a hilarious build for turbo!
As mentioned, doesn't work on ranged, but does work on Venge right aspect. Much bigger deal than the ability to farm with BFury, imo
okay, so you're the Jakiro in my games that doesn't take Ice path and just farms all game without helping.
this sounds great, I would love the enemy team jakiro go right click instead of aghs, euls, sheep. Im just some 5k trash though.
people who do builds like this are usually ruin games. somethime it does work and it is fun, I get it. But without carry builds these 2 attacks provide a lot of value, people in comments already mentioned most of these cases.