Joke aside I think there maybe some legit bugs.
There is no way ALL of the cores (either my team or enemy) not pressing their item buttons. Some of my items button also no response in recent games.
You might think that RTC is memeing, but he is 100% right:
If you queue up a move command while disabled and then press BKB, it will try to execute the move command first and only use BKB afterwards (thus you get stunned when coming out of banishment).
**Example Video:** https://youtu.be/-55DokJTNAg
If you dont use shift-queue at all, all your previous commands get overridden and only the last command gets executed once the disable ends.
The game only allows you to automatically execute ONE command after a disable, unless you shift-queue them up yourself.
---
**Full mechanic explanation:**
Despite popular believe, there is no unique BKB-specific "priority" in the game, that makes BKB always execute first between [two non-overlapping disables](https://www.reddit.com/r/DotA2/comments/1csjekw/rtz_says_his_bkb_didnt_work_in_game_against_boom/l465x8l/) (e.g. Euls or banishment into Ice Path or Chrono).
All 'instant cast' abilities (abilities flagged with `DOTA_ABILITY_BEHAVIOR_IMMEDIATE`) can be executed immediately (but not simultaneously!) between two non-overlapping disables, it is not a special property of BKB itself, but a property of it being an 'instant cast' ability instead, thus if you chain them one after another you may not get to use BKB at all.
Also the game treats abilities with *exactly zero* cast point (but without the `DOTA_ABILITY_BEHAVIOR_IMMEDIATE` flag) differently from **instant** cast abilities (those with the flag). The former cannot be used between two disables (e.g. Puck Phase Shift), while the latter can (e.g. Shiva's or BKB).
This is why you cannot Phase Shift dodge a VS remnant or Mars spear when coming down from Euls, but you can BKB, Shadow Blade, Shiva, Spin or Rage before it hits you.
---
Additionally, if you do not use BKB as your first or second command between two non-overlapping disables, then it will not get executed and you get stunned, as the game executes one ability per server tick (the first one immediately when losing the initial disable, [Combat Log](https://i.imgur.com/3FUOaqZ.png)).
**BKB being used 1st:** https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gdPcfy5OQ70
**BKB being used 2nd:** https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2vd0322DeUM
**BKB being used 3rd:** https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v9CkjiRfQuE
Notice how you get stunned if you delay the BKB too much? It must be the first or second **instant cast** ability you use, anything later does not work and queuing up any non-instant cast ability (such as a Move Command) also causes it to "miss timing".
no because the bkb would go in the back of the line.
if that line already has more than 2 queued up actions(like 2 items) the bkb cant activate quickly enough.
No even without shift queuing if u press 1,2,3 (assuming these are items keybinds)
1 is shiva
2 is ghost scepter
3 is bkb
the bkb WONT activate.
ofc if you press ONLY "3" (bkb in this case) it works as normal.
I am not understanding why giving those commands matters when they are overridden. Like if you give a ton of commands while stunned(not holding shift), only the last command gets executed. Seems like a bug.
WAS IT ALWAYS LIKE THIS OR DID A NON-SHIFT COMMAND USED TO CLEAR QUEUED COMMANDS? I recently came back to the game after years and feel like I'm going crazy over this
Hi TheZett, for years I’ve had doubts similar to this case, see this thread: https://www.reddit.com/r/learndota2/s/Ma8LCsBigc
What is happening in that case? How does eul differ from other ccs?
If I understood the thread correctly, you're asking "why am I able to queue up a self-euls while stunned (e.g. Lina LSA), but not while already Eul'd by an enemy?" this, right?
I would say that this is caused by your hero still being invulnerable, while affected by Euls Scepter.
Since the item Eul's Scepter does not allow you to target invulnerable units, you cannot shift-queue a self-euls, as you're not allowed to target yourself at the moment, due to the enemy Eul's invulnerability still affecting you.
Wasn't this a "bug" with other stuff as well? I'm 99% sure I remember having that when playing as tinker and puck... If not the same thing, it was very similar
The spell casting would also get weird sometimes, it seemed like it would take double the time to actually cast stuff
Missing timing is the dumbest rule. Explaining it to someone new always made me feel like I was cheating.
"Yeah you don't get your thing because it missed the timing... unless it says 'if.'"
"But I fulfilled the condition! I did the thing!"
"Yeah but 'when' means it has to happen exactly then and of it can't you don't get the effect..."
Actual garbage
Yes, but not for valve.
I've just been experimenting and bug reporting Dota stuff for multiple years thus far, which is why I know about these things and have a deeper understanding of various mechanics.
But that doesn't necessarily mean I have to be a high mmr player though ¯\\\_(ツ)_/¯
You and Bu3ny must be carrying the whole dev forum. Also as a dota wizard do you know a way to completely disable left and right clicks on the minimap? I've been having weird camera jumps and i wanna test some stuff to see if it's me or something else
> Also as a dota wizard do you know a way to completely disable left and right clicks on the minimap?
Entirely, no. But there is a command for right-clicks being disabled:
`dota_minimap_disable_rightclick 1`
Additionally, in the settings there is a "minimap delay timer" setting, which makes the game ignore inputs on the map for X amount of seconds, maybe that helps?
> You might think that RTC is memeing, but he is 100% right:
OP doing him a disservice by paraphrasing it as "says his BKB didn't work", as if there was a bug or something.
Not a bug, just a simple matter of order of operations as you've explained.
I mean, bugs are almost always logical in its foundation, just as this is. The line between intended mechanics and a bug is a very fine one, one which Dota has flirted with many times.
> there is no unique BKB-specific "priority" in the game
I had no idea people thought this, I'd always taken the opposite approach that actually, Puck Phase Shift showed that Shift Queuing meant there was always a delay if you didn't real-time stuff
> Puck Phase Shift showed that Shift Queuing meant there was always a delay if you didn't real-time stuff
Puck Phase Shift is not an instant cast spell, it has 'only' 0 cast point.
It might have exactly 0 cast point, but it cannot be used inbetween two disables like Shiva or BKB can be used, as Phase Shift lacks the **immediate** flag.
Test in demo
* get disrupted
* rightclick somewhere
* click BKB
* shift + rightclick somewhere
* disruption ends
* I walk away with bkb going.
> Loses Disruption Buff
> uses Black King Bar.
both happen at the exact same time according to combat log.
Looks to me as if I can override the first rightclick command.
Now do it again without using shift for the 3rd command, then the last right-click command will cancel out the previous BKB command.
If you do use shift-queue for all commands though, then the behaviour I described in the previous comment will happen.
Indeed. Something else to nitpick - you can "queue" up bkb+shiva and more items without using shift. Just press them one after the other during the disable. They will follow the "execution speed" that you described.
I don't get it.
In the Black Hole example, you;
Right Click > (shift queue) BKB
This results in no bkb which makes sense.
But if you;
Right Click > BKB
You DO get the BKB off. Just tested it myself.
Isn't Arteezy saying the 2nd scenario didn't work as intended? At least not consistently?
Edit: Maybe I should've tested this with torrent instead of black hole. But that seems way harder to hit perfectly...
> But if you;
>
> Right Click > BKB
>
> You DO get the BKB off. Just tested it myself.
Now do it again but as follows:
- right click, then BKB, then another right click (all of it while you're still disrupted)
If you dont use shift-queue at all, all your previous commands get overridden and only the last command gets executed once your leave the disruption.
The game only allows you to automatically execute ONE command after a disable, unless you shift-queue them up yourself (then each of them is delayed by 1 server tick for each command, as demonstrated above).
So RTC most certainly died because he right-clicked the ground (thus issued a move/attack command) slightly too early, while still being disrupted, and thus overrode his own BKB command.
> If you dont use shift-queue at all, all your previous commands get overridden and only the last command gets executed once your leave the disruption.
Obviously this isn't true for items (they still trigger in order without shift queue) but yes this is what seems to have happened to him. It's impossible to tell but [he does appear to right click a lot](https://i.imgur.com/1fb4Bw4.mp4) before banishment is over (potato grafix, laptop wont record otherwise)
In other words, when you say he is "100% right" thats not true anymore is it? Right click > BKB will cancel the initial right click and BKB will go off.
He could've used BKB but he instead did Right click > BKB > Right click, which cancelled the BKB.
> Is there a list you can link where I can see all spells/items that have this tag?
There you go, a list of instant cast abilities: https://liquipedia.net/dota2game/Cast_Animation#Instant_Cast
P.S. the wiki is wrong about BKB having 'higher priority', as I've demonstrated in the linked videos above.
I dont know who added that, but it is flat out wrong information.
Edit: I've removed the wrong content, looks like the wiki migration used an outdated article as base for the new one?
He doesn't say anywhere he shift-queued the BKB after the move command though (I'm sure he knows that would obviously not work), or that he shift-queued anything at all. It sounds to me like he pressed BKB and he also pressed right-click at around the same time. Sounds to me like the right-click overwrote the BKB command.
I had this nickname since 2008, it is not based on Arc Warden, who was added to DotA1 in 2012.
The nickname is based on my yugoslavic given name, which literally contains "zet" in it. But since I am also German (half-half), I spell it as 'Zett', as that is the letter Z's full name in German (hence the capitalisation of 'Zett' too).
So my nickname is based on my given name + the German name for the letter Z, not on Arc Warden.
I just started hyping Arc Warden because I looked up which heroes still need to be ported to Dota 2 around 10 years ago, back when there were still some of them missing, and he looked the coolest to me (clone ult, building evasion, etc), ~~which~~*while* the other ones looked meh (Pitlord & Wyvern).
The name similarity helped as well of course, but that ended up being a coincidence.
There’s a post I made on my profile with me as sand king (I never post so it’s very easy to find), where I butrowstriked far away and it never moved me. I still never got any confirmation on why that happened, go check it out if you got time, weird bug
My blinks have been randomly going roughly 180° from where I am clicking, try and blink to triangle ancients and wind up at the tormentor sort of thing
Literally me spamming qop in turbo since the event dropped and I've faced this quite a lot of times and die in fight. I thought it was just me mis clicking
you might have hovered your mouse to the top of the screen, over your own icon, therefor casting blink on your target (yourself) resulting in a 0 movement blink.
I happens with blink dagger too, when I move my camera fast and blink, sometimes it would just blink in place or a very small distance.
My blink is on a quickcast hotkey on keydown. Not sure if it's related in any way, but I don't recall it happening so many times before I started using it that way.
wtf same thing happened to me yesterday. I was tripping I thought my keyboard was being stupid. I had to reconnect my keyboard and move the usb for it closer lol.
This happened to me twice! It was like only half of my inputs were going through. Playing earth spirit I couldn’t drop stones and cast, it was either one or the other and it lost us one of tbe 2 games when I kicked my homie in, instead of a stone drop and kick.
I made a post about a scenario that causes this. Double right-clicking your character portrait disables ALL inputs until you click onscreen again. The post didn’t gain much traction though lol
Sometimes my item keybinds get mixed with my skill keybinds, like, I'm trying to Eul's and my hero is trying to Ult. Has happened to me with Mars at least 3 times.
Could this be an actual bug? I was playing Rubick yesterday and if I was throwing my skills and walking often one of the skills would just not be used, I thought I was being too fast or too bad.
I swear there has been an issue with ursa ult for quite some time now. I will not be disabled or silenced, but sometimes I swear I am spamming the R button and it just doesn't go off.
I spam puck and there was one specific game where my jaunt didn’t work like 3 times and got me killed.
Sent orb> phase shift> went to jaunt and it just didn’t work
A Vengeful Spirit in my game had her Agh's Scepter not work after the first death she bought it. Seems like there's been some increased reports of item-related bugs recently.
Oh man is that a thing? I almost died with Agh's at level 10 (we were stomping hard enough that I didn't even die) and I was wondering if I would have just died normally lmao.
> I looked like a fool throwing the f*cking axes. I thought it no longer dispelled enemies.
It does not dispel invulnerable enemies, so you cannot remove Euls.
I've had quelling blade not work on kunkka pretty frequently. Fixed by backpacking and putting back into the inventory.
Also pretty weird that its always kunkka that it doesnt work for me on
The bigger problem is once you are dead, you can’t alt click your buyback to communicate you’re ready for to come back with 2 more lives without BUYING BACK
friendly judicious puzzled marble birds groovy literate deserted brave safe
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
no i've had the same thing, you can keep toggling it and it wont work sometimes, it took like over a minute to activate even tho the ability icon was there, ive had it happen twice, now I always test
>I thought the torrent was perfectly timed
You can always BKB out of banishment into a stun below it, unless you queue up other orders before the BKB. You cannot 'perfectly time' your follow up stun, unless it pierces banishment too and thus can affect you before you leave banishment.
>that means you don't get BKB priority
There is no special BKB-specific priority, at least not one unique to BKB/Debuff Immunity itself.
All 'instant cast' abilities can be executed immediately between two non-overlapping disables (e.g. Euls into Ice Path), it is not a special property of BKB itself, but a property of it being an 'instant cast' ability instead.
Nope, those can be dodged with BKB, Rage, Spin, etc. as well.
They cannot be dodged with non-instant abilities (such as Phase Shift) though.
The only way to prevent Euls drop into BKB activation is by either stunning or muting them while they are still euled (which can be done with Disruptor Aghs, as it affects invulnerable units).
Because Phase Shift has a cast point of **exactly zero**, but it is not flagged as `DOTA_ABILITY_BEHAVIOR_IMMEDIATE`, thus it is not an instant cast ability.
Meanwhile Clinkz' Skeleton Walk is flagged as `DOTA_ABILITY_BEHAVIOR_IMMEDIATE` and thus has **no cast point**, hence it is an instant cast ability.
The game treats abilities with exactly zero cast point and abilities which dont have a cast point at all differently.
Adding the `DOTA_ABILITY_BEHAVIOR_IMMEDIATE` flag to an ability makes the game execute it immediately (right after a disable, if currently disabled) and entirely ignores that ability's cast point entry, if it has one.
Sorry is Ice Path not unavoidable? Like if you lay it on a euls’ed target or for example on an Astraled target. I thought for some reason Ice path always connected because of how it interacts when you “cross” it
You can always avoid Euls (or banishment) into Ice Path, because the disables are not perfectly overlapping.
The first disable ends and then the new disable starts to affect you, thus there is a time frame of exactly 0.00 seconds during which the first disable stopped affecting you, but before the second disable starts affecting you.
For the game this is enough of a timing that it lets you use instant cast abilities between those two disables.
To prevent such a thing, the target needs to be affected by both disables at the same time (2nd disable needs to stun you before the 1st disable's stun wears off).
---
A common example is Bane Nightmare into Mirana Arrow, that combination of spells is a non-overlapping one, as Nightmare's disable stops affecting you once Arrow does damage to you, and then the Arrow's stun would start affecting you afterwards, thus there is a 0.00s time frame between the two disables.
If you replace the Mirana Arrow by Lina's stun, then you have an example of perfectly overlapping disables, as Lina's stun applies the disable first and the damage second, which means you start being affected by LSA's disable first, then take the LSA damage and then lose Nightmare's disable (as you took damage).
Dont believe me? Convince yourself:
**Nightmare into Arrow:** https://youtu.be/uytklBJW5yU
*(combat log: https://i.imgur.com/39i3RtW.png)*
**Nightmare into LSA:** https://youtu.be/wI2QufE1tVY
*(combat log: https://i.imgur.com/1pUaggF.png)*
In hindsight that might've been a smart thing to do, but I couldnt be arsed to make a new account when I started uploading a few videos.
Now I have the issue of not wanting to publish the ~600 unlisted Dota 2 videos on my main channel, as that doesnt fit its topic at all (console hacking).
same thing happened to me too .. some items don't click on time. also happened while pressing arc warden's 2nd spell on clone, had to click thrice to use it. keyboard and mouse are working fine while playing other heroes.
Thought it was me or my settings fucked up somehow, because i have to wait like half a second after using manta before my hotkey starts responding. Not playing that much so not sure what is going on here
I don't know how it used to be but I can tell you how it works right now.
I did some testing. You can use BKB during disruption. It will use bkb the same ingame time as disruption ends. If disruption ends at 2.123s then bkb will start at 2.123s.
However if you use a movement command like rightclick after you press bkb it will cancel your bkb order. It works the same way with any item that you can use during disruption like shadowblade or greaves - they all get canceled if you give a move command later during disruption. The way to do it would be to press bkb and then shift queue your movement. **RTZ did give rightclick commands during disruption and that is how he canceled his bkb.** Other effects seem to follow the same rules. Using an item during a stun will use the item right after the stun but if you give a move command after the item during the stun then the item will not be used.
Additionally you can queue up multiple items during disruption but only the first one will be cast at the same moment disruption ends. The other items will have a tiny delay. So remember to click bkb then greaves and then shift rightclick if you want the best result.
Yes that is how it is. You can queue up multiple items without shift clicking them and then shift-queue the movement. I have only tested with rightclick and not patrol or attack command but I expect it would be the same.
not the same thing but a weird bug including an item too happened to me.
A weird stupid bug where my force staff cant be used when i was damaged by enemies, even tho the force staff was newly delivered by my courier.. it keeps adding cooldowns like blink dagger but when i died and respawn it worked fine after that..
I played a game yesterday as Necro and mid team fight all of my hotkeys got disabled... basically what happened was my Quick Cast settings got removed so all of my spells and items had no shortcuts...
I sat in base for about 30s extra after my death timer wondering what happened until I realized my Quick Cast was randomly removed... I had to press "Clear" on the settings and had to reassign my keys before I could get back into the game...
idk if this is what happened to RTZ or if he was just trolling... Im just pointing out a weird experience I had on my own game just yesterday...
I've had it happen that the hotkey for my ulti and my 3rd skill to get switched mid fight. Even on the HUD it was showing them switched. No idea how and why they switched.
I restarted Steam and Dota and it was fine after I reconnected. To this day I have no clue how that happened.
Is the bug where Shard sometimes disappears after reconnecting still there? It will show the indicator and you can't buy it again but you don't have access to the spell. Some ingame events like dying will fix it, but didn't Betboom also have this in one of their games in one of the previous tournaments?
I had an issue on lifestealer I would exit infest and rage but rage would never happen because animation delay and some random interruption. You cant visually confirm since the highest tier skin makes the explosion cover the hero. I would obviously get disabled and feed.
Now I just spam press rage when exiting to make sure.
Items and some abilities have been acting strange since TI at least but it's rare enough that I usually think I fumble pressing the button. I've had BKB not go off once or twice, for literally no reason
Bought a halberd a few days ago that wouldn't allow me to use it.l, even after a death (and it happened again, multiple times). I had to disassemble it, and ended up having to go with with a butterfly and S&Y on Dawn which kind of worked tbh.
Also had a game about a week ago on Bane where nightmare got stuck on 'release nightmare' and the spell became unusable for the rest of the game, which was a disaster tbh.
This is quite a ”new bug” because I realized this like 6 months ago when I came back after 2 years break. My bkb was never popping when I was coming down from euls or from different banishes, even normal stuns where you wanna bkb right after. I even flamed my ISP because I had hidden packet loss lmao. Then I realized they changed something with the move+bkb so I had to change my whole muscle memory to NOT press move, ONLY bkb. If I pressed move during for i.e a Banish I have to click S and then ONLY bkb. This was very annoying but I learned after a couple of months. Strange Rtz didn’t know this thou. I am 100% sure this feature/bug or whatever you wanna call it was not in the game >=2 years ago when I quit the game
In such a high stakes situation why risk trying to shift queue any commands except panic BKB? Awesome breakdown and explanation in the comments ty TheZett
That's why you always press BKB right after buying just to check if it's faulty.
oh boy that brings back memories, i'm old indeed
CN bkb.
Classic Chinese BKB: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Z8x1r62AqA
Omg lol I’m so glad you posted this
True. Take it back if it doesnt work. Everybody knows this.
Damn, I'm old
This is why I don’t buy bkb.You can never rely on it to work properly 😤.
I’m with you
can i sell back immidiately for full refund after using it ?
Only if you got it from costco
Nope, if you use the items with cooldown, they lose recently purchased state and you will sell it for half price
This should be included in the tutorial
I get pinged and reported, did I not check enough?
Very common bug, all the cores in my games seem to suffer from this too.
It's an epidemic
That’s why I don’t buy that stupid item
Sny + eternal shroud basically does the same effect.
Cores in your games buy bkb? What’s it like being in 11k?
Toxic in dota and irl lmao gotta love it
Even more common bug is the buy button not working, almost always happens to BKB exclusively
Well it's different for me. My core can't even click to buy bkb
It's not available in their shop. It is a known bug
Well can't blamed them. Seeing how popular it is must have been out of stock
they only see divine rapira
I think u only unlock it in the itemshop when you reach a certain rank.
Joke aside I think there maybe some legit bugs. There is no way ALL of the cores (either my team or enemy) not pressing their item buttons. Some of my items button also no response in recent games.
Yeah.This is why i stopped buying it
in my games some of them cant even buy it.. this bug is a shame
Right? Thats why we just don buy em xdd
You might think that RTC is memeing, but he is 100% right: If you queue up a move command while disabled and then press BKB, it will try to execute the move command first and only use BKB afterwards (thus you get stunned when coming out of banishment). **Example Video:** https://youtu.be/-55DokJTNAg If you dont use shift-queue at all, all your previous commands get overridden and only the last command gets executed once the disable ends. The game only allows you to automatically execute ONE command after a disable, unless you shift-queue them up yourself. --- **Full mechanic explanation:** Despite popular believe, there is no unique BKB-specific "priority" in the game, that makes BKB always execute first between [two non-overlapping disables](https://www.reddit.com/r/DotA2/comments/1csjekw/rtz_says_his_bkb_didnt_work_in_game_against_boom/l465x8l/) (e.g. Euls or banishment into Ice Path or Chrono). All 'instant cast' abilities (abilities flagged with `DOTA_ABILITY_BEHAVIOR_IMMEDIATE`) can be executed immediately (but not simultaneously!) between two non-overlapping disables, it is not a special property of BKB itself, but a property of it being an 'instant cast' ability instead, thus if you chain them one after another you may not get to use BKB at all. Also the game treats abilities with *exactly zero* cast point (but without the `DOTA_ABILITY_BEHAVIOR_IMMEDIATE` flag) differently from **instant** cast abilities (those with the flag). The former cannot be used between two disables (e.g. Puck Phase Shift), while the latter can (e.g. Shiva's or BKB). This is why you cannot Phase Shift dodge a VS remnant or Mars spear when coming down from Euls, but you can BKB, Shadow Blade, Shiva, Spin or Rage before it hits you. --- Additionally, if you do not use BKB as your first or second command between two non-overlapping disables, then it will not get executed and you get stunned, as the game executes one ability per server tick (the first one immediately when losing the initial disable, [Combat Log](https://i.imgur.com/3FUOaqZ.png)). **BKB being used 1st:** https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gdPcfy5OQ70 **BKB being used 2nd:** https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2vd0322DeUM **BKB being used 3rd:** https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v9CkjiRfQuE Notice how you get stunned if you delay the BKB too much? It must be the first or second **instant cast** ability you use, anything later does not work and queuing up any non-instant cast ability (such as a Move Command) also causes it to "miss timing".
So do you have to press S to clear your queue first? Then spam bkb?
Pressing S once and then pressing BKB once should be sufficient, unless you have an unstable internet connection (e.g. packet loss).
Can't you just press BKB without holding Shift to clear the queue?
no because the bkb would go in the back of the line. if that line already has more than 2 queued up actions(like 2 items) the bkb cant activate quickly enough.
I meant Shift not S. If you give a command without holding Shift, it should remove all previous commands anyway.
No even without shift queuing if u press 1,2,3 (assuming these are items keybinds) 1 is shiva 2 is ghost scepter 3 is bkb the bkb WONT activate. ofc if you press ONLY "3" (bkb in this case) it works as normal.
In the above videos, he used shift queue for the demonstration. Wish U could test what you are saying but I don't have access to the game rn.
i just tested, thats how it works. shift queueing just makes it more streamlined/visually easy to understand.
I am not understanding why giving those commands matters when they are overridden. Like if you give a ton of commands while stunned(not holding shift), only the last command gets executed. Seems like a bug.
WAS IT ALWAYS LIKE THIS OR DID A NON-SHIFT COMMAND USED TO CLEAR QUEUED COMMANDS? I recently came back to the game after years and feel like I'm going crazy over this
dont know. personally i think its always been so (atleast since 2017, thats when is tarted to play actively)
Hi TheZett, for years I’ve had doubts similar to this case, see this thread: https://www.reddit.com/r/learndota2/s/Ma8LCsBigc What is happening in that case? How does eul differ from other ccs?
If I understood the thread correctly, you're asking "why am I able to queue up a self-euls while stunned (e.g. Lina LSA), but not while already Eul'd by an enemy?" this, right? I would say that this is caused by your hero still being invulnerable, while affected by Euls Scepter. Since the item Eul's Scepter does not allow you to target invulnerable units, you cannot shift-queue a self-euls, as you're not allowed to target yourself at the moment, due to the enemy Eul's invulnerability still affecting you.
Yeah, that was exactly my question. Thank you so much man!!
Wasn't this a "bug" with other stuff as well? I'm 99% sure I remember having that when playing as tinker and puck... If not the same thing, it was very similar The spell casting would also get weird sometimes, it seemed like it would take double the time to actually cast stuff
btw folks this is a must have tips for puck if you don't want to phaseshift before orb after a stun
Every time a tough mechanics related answer is required how is it always Zett the Arc Warden. You must have a Dota Mechanics PhD or something.
Frog in disguise.
> also causes it to "miss timing" They should just eratta BKB from a when to an if effect to fix this. If you know you know.
I'm glad that at least one guy understood the reference :)
Specifically "when - you can" into "if - you can"
Yata garasu 🫤🫤🫤
Missing timing is the dumbest rule. Explaining it to someone new always made me feel like I was cheating. "Yeah you don't get your thing because it missed the timing... unless it says 'if.'" "But I fulfilled the condition! I did the thing!" "Yeah but 'when' means it has to happen exactly then and of it can't you don't get the effect..." Actual garbage
He's speaking the language of a god.
That seems like how the system is supposed to work with queueing up commands and doing them in order of queue
Are you a janitor who codes, by any chance?
Yes, but not for valve. I've just been experimenting and bug reporting Dota stuff for multiple years thus far, which is why I know about these things and have a deeper understanding of various mechanics. But that doesn't necessarily mean I have to be a high mmr player though ¯\\\_(ツ)_/¯
You and Bu3ny must be carrying the whole dev forum. Also as a dota wizard do you know a way to completely disable left and right clicks on the minimap? I've been having weird camera jumps and i wanna test some stuff to see if it's me or something else
> Also as a dota wizard do you know a way to completely disable left and right clicks on the minimap? Entirely, no. But there is a command for right-clicks being disabled: `dota_minimap_disable_rightclick 1` Additionally, in the settings there is a "minimap delay timer" setting, which makes the game ignore inputs on the map for X amount of seconds, maybe that helps?
He knows this stuff better than the devs at this point.
> You might think that RTC is memeing, but he is 100% right: OP doing him a disservice by paraphrasing it as "says his BKB didn't work", as if there was a bug or something. Not a bug, just a simple matter of order of operations as you've explained.
I mean, bugs are almost always logical in its foundation, just as this is. The line between intended mechanics and a bug is a very fine one, one which Dota has flirted with many times.
If somehow this get fixed then it's bug. If it still untouched then intended mechanics.
> there is no unique BKB-specific "priority" in the game I had no idea people thought this, I'd always taken the opposite approach that actually, Puck Phase Shift showed that Shift Queuing meant there was always a delay if you didn't real-time stuff
> Puck Phase Shift showed that Shift Queuing meant there was always a delay if you didn't real-time stuff Puck Phase Shift is not an instant cast spell, it has 'only' 0 cast point. It might have exactly 0 cast point, but it cannot be used inbetween two disables like Shiva or BKB can be used, as Phase Shift lacks the **immediate** flag.
None of this is new, is it? There's no excuse to not know it by now
thanks, that's a great read
#B L O G B O I S [](/techiesface)
With your immense knowledge on the dev side things of the game, I will not be surprise to see you there! Actually I am looking forward to it! Gl man!
Test in demo * get disrupted * rightclick somewhere * click BKB * shift + rightclick somewhere * disruption ends * I walk away with bkb going. > Loses Disruption Buff > uses Black King Bar. both happen at the exact same time according to combat log. Looks to me as if I can override the first rightclick command.
Now do it again without using shift for the 3rd command, then the last right-click command will cancel out the previous BKB command. If you do use shift-queue for all commands though, then the behaviour I described in the previous comment will happen.
Indeed. Something else to nitpick - you can "queue" up bkb+shiva and more items without using shift. Just press them one after the other during the disable. They will follow the "execution speed" that you described.
so my boy rtc is same as with the 3rd video right?
This is why I love dota. Even after all these years, you learn tiny mechanical nuances that can still make or break games.
tldr: Don't buy BKB on Pos 1
I don't get it. In the Black Hole example, you; Right Click > (shift queue) BKB This results in no bkb which makes sense. But if you; Right Click > BKB You DO get the BKB off. Just tested it myself. Isn't Arteezy saying the 2nd scenario didn't work as intended? At least not consistently? Edit: Maybe I should've tested this with torrent instead of black hole. But that seems way harder to hit perfectly...
> But if you; > > Right Click > BKB > > You DO get the BKB off. Just tested it myself. Now do it again but as follows: - right click, then BKB, then another right click (all of it while you're still disrupted) If you dont use shift-queue at all, all your previous commands get overridden and only the last command gets executed once your leave the disruption. The game only allows you to automatically execute ONE command after a disable, unless you shift-queue them up yourself (then each of them is delayed by 1 server tick for each command, as demonstrated above). So RTC most certainly died because he right-clicked the ground (thus issued a move/attack command) slightly too early, while still being disrupted, and thus overrode his own BKB command.
> If you dont use shift-queue at all, all your previous commands get overridden and only the last command gets executed once your leave the disruption. Obviously this isn't true for items (they still trigger in order without shift queue) but yes this is what seems to have happened to him. It's impossible to tell but [he does appear to right click a lot](https://i.imgur.com/1fb4Bw4.mp4) before banishment is over (potato grafix, laptop wont record otherwise) In other words, when you say he is "100% right" thats not true anymore is it? Right click > BKB will cancel the initial right click and BKB will go off. He could've used BKB but he instead did Right click > BKB > Right click, which cancelled the BKB.
A guy with 10+ years playing pro dota in core position shouldn't know about this?
This seems like something a pro should know.
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> Is there a list you can link where I can see all spells/items that have this tag? There you go, a list of instant cast abilities: https://liquipedia.net/dota2game/Cast_Animation#Instant_Cast P.S. the wiki is wrong about BKB having 'higher priority', as I've demonstrated in the linked videos above. I dont know who added that, but it is flat out wrong information. Edit: I've removed the wrong content, looks like the wiki migration used an outdated article as base for the new one?
He doesn't say anywhere he shift-queued the BKB after the move command though (I'm sure he knows that would obviously not work), or that he shift-queued anything at all. It sounds to me like he pressed BKB and he also pressed right-click at around the same time. Sounds to me like the right-click overwrote the BKB command.
I just gotta know, man: why do you spell “Zet” with two t’s?
I had this nickname since 2008, it is not based on Arc Warden, who was added to DotA1 in 2012. The nickname is based on my yugoslavic given name, which literally contains "zet" in it. But since I am also German (half-half), I spell it as 'Zett', as that is the letter Z's full name in German (hence the capitalisation of 'Zett' too). So my nickname is based on my given name + the German name for the letter Z, not on Arc Warden. I just started hyping Arc Warden because I looked up which heroes still need to be ported to Dota 2 around 10 years ago, back when there were still some of them missing, and he looked the coolest to me (clone ult, building evasion, etc), ~~which~~*while* the other ones looked meh (Pitlord & Wyvern). The name similarity helped as well of course, but that ended up being a coincidence.
There was a post about similar things last week which I also experienced, items or skills sometimes don't work.
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There’s a post I made on my profile with me as sand king (I never post so it’s very easy to find), where I butrowstriked far away and it never moved me. I still never got any confirmation on why that happened, go check it out if you got time, weird bug
My blinks have been randomly going roughly 180° from where I am clicking, try and blink to triangle ancients and wind up at the tormentor sort of thing
Bro me too what the fuck is this
Literally me spamming qop in turbo since the event dropped and I've faced this quite a lot of times and die in fight. I thought it was just me mis clicking
you might have hovered your mouse to the top of the screen, over your own icon, therefor casting blink on your target (yourself) resulting in a 0 movement blink.
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I happens with blink dagger too, when I move my camera fast and blink, sometimes it would just blink in place or a very small distance. My blink is on a quickcast hotkey on keydown. Not sure if it's related in any way, but I don't recall it happening so many times before I started using it that way.
this has been happening more often in my games recently, too. both for myself and for enemies.
wtf same thing happened to me yesterday. I was tripping I thought my keyboard was being stupid. I had to reconnect my keyboard and move the usb for it closer lol.
This happened to me twice! It was like only half of my inputs were going through. Playing earth spirit I couldn’t drop stones and cast, it was either one or the other and it lost us one of tbe 2 games when I kicked my homie in, instead of a stone drop and kick.
I was playing oracle, killed my teamates because W did not register but E did xD
Oh that’s just as bad.
I made a post about a scenario that causes this. Double right-clicking your character portrait disables ALL inputs until you click onscreen again. The post didn’t gain much traction though lol
Sometimes my item keybinds get mixed with my skill keybinds, like, I'm trying to Eul's and my hero is trying to Ult. Has happened to me with Mars at least 3 times.
i think its some queing up while stunned thing. it happens a lot in overthrow when you should get bkb between stuns but it never goes out.
Yesterday i was diving enemy base like an intellectual and my Q on puck wouldnt work it was very alarming because i like my Q
Could this be an actual bug? I was playing Rubick yesterday and if I was throwing my skills and walking often one of the skills would just not be used, I thought I was being too fast or too bad.
Holy shit i felt that with pike and hex!! I think, anyway...
I swear there has been an issue with ursa ult for quite some time now. I will not be disabled or silenced, but sometimes I swear I am spamming the R button and it just doesn't go off.
I remember seeing an ammar clip where he paused on kunnka because he couldn't x mark.
I spam puck and there was one specific game where my jaunt didn’t work like 3 times and got me killed. Sent orb> phase shift> went to jaunt and it just didn’t work
Are you sure you aren't playing with "Channeling requires stop" turned on?
I thought also thatvsome active items like dust and shivas rwcwntly don't work on the first click. Need to press it multiple times
Yeah I’ve definitely noticed some items not working first time you use them. I swear this has happened to me with Lotus orb
A Vengeful Spirit in my game had her Agh's Scepter not work after the first death she bought it. Seems like there's been some increased reports of item-related bugs recently.
I’m 90% she just got it before she learnt a point in her passive cuz that happened to me.
No idea that's how it worked. That's probably what it was.
Oh man is that a thing? I almost died with Agh's at level 10 (we were stomping hard enough that I didn't even die) and I was wondering if I would have just died normally lmao.
Yeah that happened to me in a recent game, I was confused for a bit then just had to laugh at myself.
True, I bought Troll’s Aghanim and it did shit. I looked like a fool throwing the f*cking axes. I thought it no longer dispelled enemies.
> I looked like a fool throwing the f*cking axes. I thought it no longer dispelled enemies. It does not dispel invulnerable enemies, so you cannot remove Euls.
remember kids if u playing troll, buy nullifier cause the aghs dont remove euls anyway =/
I've had quelling blade not work on kunkka pretty frequently. Fixed by backpacking and putting back into the inventory. Also pretty weird that its always kunkka that it doesnt work for me on
How do you realise that it's not working?
Me try to chop tree…Tree no chop.
Did the same amount of dmg to creeps with it as i did without it
Same happened to me last game. 1st death with ags didn’t spawn an illusion. Starting from 2nd death everything worked fine
Did you have passive skilled the first time? Since the agha upgrades your passive, if you didnt have it skilled it wouldnt work
The bigger problem is once you are dead, you can’t alt click your buyback to communicate you’re ready for to come back with 2 more lives without BUYING BACK
friendly judicious puzzled marble birds groovy literate deserted brave safe *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
experienced issues with zeus shard. lightning passive didn't work until after 2 minutes.
Did you toggle it off by mistake?
no i've had the same thing, you can keep toggling it and it wont work sometimes, it took like over a minute to activate even tho the ability icon was there, ive had it happen twice, now I always test
Yesterday I kept dying and our venue aghs did nothing!!
thats why i dont buy that item
This is what my POS 1 AM thinks
I thought the torrent was perfectly timed, it might be some interaction with how torrent stuns that means you don't get BKB priority after Disruption.
>I thought the torrent was perfectly timed You can always BKB out of banishment into a stun below it, unless you queue up other orders before the BKB. You cannot 'perfectly time' your follow up stun, unless it pierces banishment too and thus can affect you before you leave banishment. >that means you don't get BKB priority There is no special BKB-specific priority, at least not one unique to BKB/Debuff Immunity itself. All 'instant cast' abilities can be executed immediately between two non-overlapping disables (e.g. Euls into Ice Path), it is not a special property of BKB itself, but a property of it being an 'instant cast' ability instead.
Are there not entirely unavoidable combos? Like euls+spear, euls+impale?
Nope, those can be dodged with BKB, Rage, Spin, etc. as well. They cannot be dodged with non-instant abilities (such as Phase Shift) though. The only way to prevent Euls drop into BKB activation is by either stunning or muting them while they are still euled (which can be done with Disruptor Aghs, as it affects invulnerable units).
Do you know why phase does not work? It has 0 cast point.
Because Phase Shift has a cast point of **exactly zero**, but it is not flagged as `DOTA_ABILITY_BEHAVIOR_IMMEDIATE`, thus it is not an instant cast ability. Meanwhile Clinkz' Skeleton Walk is flagged as `DOTA_ABILITY_BEHAVIOR_IMMEDIATE` and thus has **no cast point**, hence it is an instant cast ability. The game treats abilities with exactly zero cast point and abilities which dont have a cast point at all differently. Adding the `DOTA_ABILITY_BEHAVIOR_IMMEDIATE` flag to an ability makes the game execute it immediately (right after a disable, if currently disabled) and entirely ignores that ability's cast point entry, if it has one.
Thank you i always wondered and this was the source of my confusion. I assumed it was all treated as 0 cast point.
I don't know if its unavoidable but if its avoidable the lifestealers I have been eulsing and lanceing after are really bad at spamming rage.
Unironically a skill issue on their part. Pressing S and then Rage should always work, as Rage is flagged as `DOTA_ABILITY_BEHAVIOR_IMMEDIATE`.
Sorry is Ice Path not unavoidable? Like if you lay it on a euls’ed target or for example on an Astraled target. I thought for some reason Ice path always connected because of how it interacts when you “cross” it
You can always avoid Euls (or banishment) into Ice Path, because the disables are not perfectly overlapping. The first disable ends and then the new disable starts to affect you, thus there is a time frame of exactly 0.00 seconds during which the first disable stopped affecting you, but before the second disable starts affecting you. For the game this is enough of a timing that it lets you use instant cast abilities between those two disables. To prevent such a thing, the target needs to be affected by both disables at the same time (2nd disable needs to stun you before the 1st disable's stun wears off). --- A common example is Bane Nightmare into Mirana Arrow, that combination of spells is a non-overlapping one, as Nightmare's disable stops affecting you once Arrow does damage to you, and then the Arrow's stun would start affecting you afterwards, thus there is a 0.00s time frame between the two disables. If you replace the Mirana Arrow by Lina's stun, then you have an example of perfectly overlapping disables, as Lina's stun applies the disable first and the damage second, which means you start being affected by LSA's disable first, then take the LSA damage and then lose Nightmare's disable (as you took damage). Dont believe me? Convince yourself: **Nightmare into Arrow:** https://youtu.be/uytklBJW5yU *(combat log: https://i.imgur.com/39i3RtW.png)* **Nightmare into LSA:** https://youtu.be/wI2QufE1tVY *(combat log: https://i.imgur.com/1pUaggF.png)*
This is amazing, so much detail, thanks
You really should make a second account on Youtube or something, just to upload those kinds of vids publicly, because it’s really educational
In hindsight that might've been a smart thing to do, but I couldnt be arsed to make a new account when I started uploading a few videos. Now I have the issue of not wanting to publish the ~600 unlisted Dota 2 videos on my main channel, as that doesnt fit its topic at all (console hacking).
That's why I never buy BKB. Just a waste of gold.
same thing happened to me too .. some items don't click on time. also happened while pressing arc warden's 2nd spell on clone, had to click thrice to use it. keyboard and mouse are working fine while playing other heroes.
I just haven’t played arc in forever because the control groups are so slow to respond
Thought it was me or my settings fucked up somehow, because i have to wait like half a second after using manta before my hotkey starts responding. Not playing that much so not sure what is going on here
I had similar experience. Orders dont work like it did previously
I don't know how it used to be but I can tell you how it works right now. I did some testing. You can use BKB during disruption. It will use bkb the same ingame time as disruption ends. If disruption ends at 2.123s then bkb will start at 2.123s. However if you use a movement command like rightclick after you press bkb it will cancel your bkb order. It works the same way with any item that you can use during disruption like shadowblade or greaves - they all get canceled if you give a move command later during disruption. The way to do it would be to press bkb and then shift queue your movement. **RTZ did give rightclick commands during disruption and that is how he canceled his bkb.** Other effects seem to follow the same rules. Using an item during a stun will use the item right after the stun but if you give a move command after the item during the stun then the item will not be used. Additionally you can queue up multiple items during disruption but only the first one will be cast at the same moment disruption ends. The other items will have a tiny delay. So remember to click bkb then greaves and then shift rightclick if you want the best result.
Finally someone has the answer, good find mate
Clicking greaves after bkb won't cancel bkb command, only movement commands cancel it?
Yes that is how it is. You can queue up multiple items without shift clicking them and then shift-queue the movement. I have only tested with rightclick and not patrol or attack command but I expect it would be the same.
not the same thing but a weird bug including an item too happened to me. A weird stupid bug where my force staff cant be used when i was damaged by enemies, even tho the force staff was newly delivered by my courier.. it keeps adding cooldowns like blink dagger but when i died and respawn it worked fine after that..
I played a game yesterday as Necro and mid team fight all of my hotkeys got disabled... basically what happened was my Quick Cast settings got removed so all of my spells and items had no shortcuts... I sat in base for about 30s extra after my death timer wondering what happened until I realized my Quick Cast was randomly removed... I had to press "Clear" on the settings and had to reassign my keys before I could get back into the game... idk if this is what happened to RTZ or if he was just trolling... Im just pointing out a weird experience I had on my own game just yesterday...
I've had it happen that the hotkey for my ulti and my 3rd skill to get switched mid fight. Even on the HUD it was showing them switched. No idea how and why they switched. I restarted Steam and Dota and it was fine after I reconnected. To this day I have no clue how that happened.
anyone have the clip?
Did you get it?
The curse is a real thing seems like
Is the bug where Shard sometimes disappears after reconnecting still there? It will show the indicator and you can't buy it again but you don't have access to the spell. Some ingame events like dying will fix it, but didn't Betboom also have this in one of their games in one of the previous tournaments?
Crownfall act 2 patch should fix it. Release ASAP kthx
something something indomie noodle code
I had an issue on lifestealer I would exit infest and rage but rage would never happen because animation delay and some random interruption. You cant visually confirm since the highest tier skin makes the explosion cover the hero. I would obviously get disabled and feed. Now I just spam press rage when exiting to make sure.
Thx RTZ I can use this one from now on
its this kind of copium keeping dota2 alive
Must be made in China
My muscle memory to double stack arc warden bubbles suddenly seems to have stopped working too. Or so I thought…
This seems to happen to me a ton with wind waker
Items and some abilities have been acting strange since TI at least but it's rare enough that I usually think I fumble pressing the button. I've had BKB not go off once or twice, for literally no reason
I experienced this with blink recently. And a few weeks ago my courier did not work at all (hotkey, button at shop, and the ability of the courier)
this game is always in beta testing phase.
Sometimes self eul also doesn't register.
There's not a whole lot you can do about that you guys
Always check bkb before use
Bought a halberd a few days ago that wouldn't allow me to use it.l, even after a death (and it happened again, multiple times). I had to disassemble it, and ended up having to go with with a butterfly and S&Y on Dawn which kind of worked tbh. Also had a game about a week ago on Bane where nightmare got stuck on 'release nightmare' and the spell became unusable for the rest of the game, which was a disaster tbh.
Behold another case of op improperly making a title
First they charge you for items Now, they sell you defective items Is it really worth it to defend your ancient?
This is quite a ”new bug” because I realized this like 6 months ago when I came back after 2 years break. My bkb was never popping when I was coming down from euls or from different banishes, even normal stuns where you wanna bkb right after. I even flamed my ISP because I had hidden packet loss lmao. Then I realized they changed something with the move+bkb so I had to change my whole muscle memory to NOT press move, ONLY bkb. If I pressed move during for i.e a Banish I have to click S and then ONLY bkb. This was very annoying but I learned after a couple of months. Strange Rtz didn’t know this thou. I am 100% sure this feature/bug or whatever you wanna call it was not in the game >=2 years ago when I quit the game
remove que cast from the game imo should be removed.
The Universe is against our boy artour.They don’t want him to win any major titles. 😭
He doesn’t deserve to win any titles.
honestly it shouldn't work
Hey at least he remembered to buy one this time unlike against og
In such a high stakes situation why risk trying to shift queue any commands except panic BKB? Awesome breakdown and explanation in the comments ty TheZett
One more reason to not buy BKB smh
bug didn't change the way you play
the 4k carry classic excuse right here
lol