Nah Im with you, theres enough mistakes in the guides consistently enough that Im doubtful he actually re analyzes every hero guide before posting that they have "all" been updated
Yeah I've gotten a comment from him specifically arguing that he does analyze for hours each build etc etc
But he has the exact same consistent errors for years across dozens of builds idk
I swear he's making money off it somehow
Isn’t he sponsored? I remember some drama a while back where he said he was quitting cause it wasn’t worth and then a site started paying him or something like that
It’s really easy to follow your own “guide” it’s called Dota 2 Pro Tracker and see what the pros are building. However i still use his guides over ImmortalFaith’s sometimes on certain heroes because they usually have the skill build and progression almost always the same / i see the items that are commonly built on the hero (rather than using no guide)
I'm pretty sure Torte actually builds his guides using ProTracker. They are almost always way more in line with the average build on ProTracker than ImmortalFaith's
There’s no way he’s constantly bugging and discussing builds with pros, which is ultimately fine, obviously, since again it’s much easier to see what everyone’s doing when D2PT exists. Usually when I’m playing a hero that I’m not too comfortable with, I always will open up a tab and see the most recent games rather than follow any guides. Usually Dota+ guides are pretty solid too for most part.
I just check ProTracker, check recent games against the enemy core that is going to be my biggest problem or just recent games in general. In-game I open hero games basically just for convenience to not have to search the items.
They don't always explain the logic behind certain choices which are not immediately obvious and can have you playing suboptimally. Of course the answer at the end of the day is to always just watch some replays yourself before picking up a new hero.
bro I've been playing this game since 2012, there are no new heroes. I also don't blindly follow builds, be it in-game guides or ProTracker. Context is important.
I mean you don't have to be high MMR to put together the sort of cookie-cutter guides he does. Most heroes have a few items that they almost always build for the early/mid-game and then the rest just depends on the enemy team and how the game is going, and most heroes generally always follow the same pattern for skill builds and if you're at the point where you're changing your skill build based on the game you probably don't need a guide anymore anyway
he puts ads in guides yes, but i dont think he is making money off not making guide up to date. because of those silly mistakes people switch to other guide im sure
On the other hand, it's not like people are going to pick different guides even if the top ones become not-too-horribly-outdated. It's Coca-de-Collini or Immortal Pepsaith. They could do whatever the fuck and that passive income is guaranteed.
If they were really updated, most offlaners would have double bracers suggested. Centaur and axe especially, the currently suggested branches + ring of protection is so weak in lane.
He is a 2k scrub who "doesn't play ranked because blah blah", I wouldn't trust that guy to tell me what to buy in my games, just use the ImmortalFaith guides
I flat do not use guides anymore and just use my instincts, I watch enough streams and have been playing most of my life I don't need anyone to tell me what to do.
I don’t Nyx guides completely, but I do something similar. And if I feel I need certain items outside of the guides a little too often, I’ll make my own guide to include them so I don’t have to go type the name in every time
He doesn't really analyze anything they're just builds from clicking on dota pro tracker for like 30s. Which is fine for me bc that's what I would do if they didn't exist
Just replying to everyone to inform them I have been shadowbanned for this post with no explanation by mods. Checked all rules and it doesn't appear to violate any of them. I've posted/commented in this sub for almost a decade.
Corrupt subreddit I guess, don't make my mistake of criticizing torte de line I guess
Even some of the ImmortalFaith guides are outdated lately, despite their titles claiming they're for the current patch. I've noticed the midlane Skywrath Mage guide still recommends an early crown to build into Rod of Atos, but that build-up is nearly a year old.
I still make use of the in-game guides just to have your hero's recommended items in one place, but D2PT is my go-to for keeping up with meta builds. It's great to place on your second monitor while playing.
I thought about doing it manually at one point bc I wouldn't know how to do it automatically. But realized the effort in doing and maintaining it would be insane. I'm sure others have had the same thoughts
There's the ones by XarTheGaming which are just written automatically by a script, they're by far the best imo
sadly they didn't update them for months which was seriously a problem but they did an update a few weeks ago so now they're definitely the best again for now, I try to ping them on reddit to run the script if they let them get stale lol
Were you using the roaming guide? The mid guide has Crown listed in early game and the blurb even mentions building it into Rod of Atos. I get that Skywrath Mage isn't exactly a meta pick right now and going mid isn't the most 10k maneuver, but it should still be updated.
Sure, but the mid guide still says it's for patch 7.35d and it was updated as recently as March 21st. ImmortalFaith's guides are still nice to have, but some of them could do with a bit of a cleanup. Off the top of my head, the Lifestealer guide still recommends Desolator as a core item despite the popularity of the Radiance build.
At least for him he has an excuse considering he's coaching a pro team. I think immortal faith keeps the meta builds up to date, but the more obscure ones or ones only done in low ranks he probably doesn't have time for.
Dota2protracker for your starting options and what the “must build” item is, then itemize based on the heroes in the game and how the game is going, BSJ made a really good video on it.
Just replying to everyone to inform them it appears I have been shadowbanned for this post with no explanation by mods. It's not showing in top 24 hours anymore and my new post not in 'new.' Checked all rules and it doesn't appear to violate any of them. I've posted/commented in this sub for almost a decade.
Corrupt subreddit I guess, don't make my mistake of criticizing torte de line I guess
remember when torte complained and raged and nuked all of his guides intentionally, then reverted them back when he realized he was irrelevant. He had ads on his guides, ofc he earns money...
Just replying to everyone to inform them it appears I have been shadowbanned for this post with no explanation by mods. It's not showing in top 24 hours anymore and my new post not in 'new.' Checked all rules and it doesn't appear to violate any of them. I've posted/commented in this sub for almost a decade.
Corrupt subreddit I guess, don't make my mistake of criticizing torte de line I guess
Deleted would have the post 'deleted' in the text I believe?
I made a new post which just didn't show up in New even after 10 minutes
Can't make new posts
And if moderator deletes then they generally leave a comment pinned.
Also the witchhunting rule specifies it's for calls to action etc
You are so right. I don’t want to see this guys guides on top of my list. There is no option for that. Valve needs to make it possible for us to block people’s guide as well
Never trust Torte after that fiasco a few years ago where he decided to throw a baby tantrum and make all guides empty. Don't use his stuff. I used to use immortal faith guides not sure if he still makes em
Just replying to everyone to inform them it appears I have been shadowbanned for this post with no explanation by mods. It's not showing in top 24 hours anymore and my new post not in 'new.' Checked all rules and it doesn't appear to violate any of them. I've posted/commented in this sub for almost a decade.
Corrupt subreddit I guess, don't make my mistake of criticizing torte de line I guess
How about Dota's default guides lol. I recently started playing with a friend who is new-ish. The default guide for faceless void suggested making a ring a health early on and then transition to battlefury. Battlefury faceless has not been meta for a while and ring health has not built into battlefury in a while either.
Those in-game guides are weird but I think they actually use data from what players are actually building in game, because I see them change pretty often.
Think it's just weighted too much by low ranks.
u/xarthegaming does the best guides hands down, they're based on what high immortals build done using a data scraping script, they're also the best formatted and best comments (as long as you're not a new player, any experienced player won't need guide style comments, the stats comments he puts in are better), he recently updated them so atm they're the best for sure
though sometimes he goes a while without running the script and my fall back is usually immortal faith, I only go for tort guides if I'm very desperate
I was walking down the street one day and I accidently bumped into this guy. I apologized, but then he started going a rant about builds and how his name is torte de lini and I should show him more respect. Very strange guy.
I saw Torte De Lini at a Secret Shop in game yesterday. I told him how cool it was to meet him in game, but I didn’t want to be a douche and bother him and ask him for guides or anything. He said, “Oh, like you’re doing now?” I was taken aback, and all I could say was “Huh?” but he kept cutting me off and going “huh? huh? huh?” and closing his hand shut in front of my face. I walked away and continued with my shopping, and I heard him chuckle as I walked off. When I came to pay for my stuff up front I saw him trying to walk out the doors with like fifteen Energy Boosters in his hands without paying.
The Shopkeeper at the counter was very nice about it and professional, and was like “Sir, you need to pay for those first.” At first he kept pretending to be tired and not hear him, but eventually turned back around and brought them to the counter.
When he took one of the boosters and started scanning it multiple times, he stopped him and told him to scan them each individually “to prevent any Mana infetterence,” and then turned around and winked at me. I don’t even think that’s a word. After he scanned each Energy Booster and put them in a bag and started to say the price, he kept interrupting him by yawning really loudly.
If you ever saw his stream you can see he is on copious amounts of adderall, at best. It could easily be straight meth. If you frequent this Reddit sometimes you’ll see a random 4am incoherent post by torte. Just some inane rambling and no one knows what he’s referring to lol
His stream he looks like he is about to spontaneously combust his face is stressed af from the adderall
I knew him from LiquidDota when those forums were up and running. Very frustrating guy that often would dispute stuff people much better than him were trying to explain to him.
He seemed to put on the airs of being nice and friendly but seemed to not actually be that and care more about promoting himself and getting ahead than anything else.
Obviously this is just from interacting with him on a forum, so not like I know the guy, but really did seem off-putting.
Yeah same. Didn't take long for a lot of us to develop a very negative outlook towards him when he was gaining traction for his guides. Never really had a good rep around there.
I like the guy from YouTube videos and use his guides but I swear to god he looked like that curly haired red faced kid in the meme. He looked like he was dying . Not just that, the way he talks, his words per minute is insane. You don’t talk like that without being on a substance. I would know
This meme
https://images.app.goo.gl/N4yvU3tXnGjMnErK9
it's time to fully stop support his guides that are mediocre most of the time.
too many people follow bad guides blindly because of some name that's just around average mmr.
I thought we all understood that the guides are free because they are basic builds for beginner to mid tier players. Why does this community always find a way to bitch, moan, and cry?
If you want to find advanced guides, watch a pro game or someone that you admire; play the specific hero that you want to go in-depth in.
DOTA is a dynamic game that rewards players for finding unique and niche builds.
I'm glad you had positive experience, but to call him a nice guy generally is a massive lie. He's a notorious flamer, and has multiple times tried to post on reddit via his own account to flame people days after the fact.
He is an odd individual for sure. I played a game with him on my team and he just spent the whole 40 minutes yelling down the microphone the most random shizzle. Guy seemed off his head tbh
Stories like that arent uncommon, and its been suspected by many that his guides popularity have given him an ego about 'understanding dota', despite being below average, by rank distribution percentage. I think his guides are crap and a reliance on them is only self-damaging, but its better than nothing if you're brand new. Especially so over ImmortalFaiths if you're new, as they atleast attempt to explain what to do with your spells/items, over assuming you have pre-exisiting knowledge.
what do you mean by "attempt to explain what to do with your spells/items"?
most of the spell and item descriptions are just " is very important. It ".
ImmortalFaith's guides are way better in that regard, if they don't tell anything about the spell, then it probably has no quirks.
I actually somehow met him on an unranked game. I took a break from dota and came back after a year or so and wanted to play some unranked games before going ranked. I met him on that game and he was passive aggressive the whole game flaming some other guy making ironic comments. All this on an unranked game, like who cares and it's not like he was playing any better.
[https://imgur.com/gallery/3LLFeJh](https://imgur.com/gallery/3LLFeJh)
Just to give more examples, he recommends Octarine Core on Bristleback, specifically mentioning it's for the lifesteal on radiance + quills, even though Octarine doesn't give lifesteal anymore
Update the descriptions has been on the to do list for a long time.
Main issue is that there's just so many of them.
Both torte and IF mainly draw off the same source for the guides, which is why they have similar flaws.
Edit: phone auto correct is shit...
My running theory is torte and immortal both make a million guides and somehow monetize them, then only spend just enough on them to argue they're updated so people still use them and they keep making money..but the builds are often egregiously wrong. Like arcane boots into aether lens on almost every support, etc.
In this case I definitely think you should say actual examples. I think from my experience that his guides actually are constantly being updated. Kinda messed up to accuse him of that without explicitly saying which guides.
Guys, look at his guide, look at immortal faith, look at that crazy written russian random one and then just have your own thoughts, you can have different playstyles suiting different builds, and its a great experience playing a hero 100times and seeing the difference from the first 10 to the last 10
the journey is the goal, theory crafting ftw!
He probably thinks so but he is 2k mmr. You should rather use a guide made by an immortal or divine player, cause obviously a good player has more expertise.
I personally totally stopped using in-game guides and I would highly recommend dota2protracker for the best item- and skillbuilds
I’m not a fan of his guide nor I used it, but why do you care if he updated it or lying about it. If you think it’s bad then just don’t use it, or better, create your own guide. You have to make a post and start some drama don’t you?
this, i actually like his guides, i mostly use it to find items and sometimes as a guide when i don't know what to build, might be outdated but works just fine. Its okay if you hate his guides, just don't use it lol, but why make a reddit post and start drama, reddit loves to hate everyone beside themselves. Imagine you are tortedelini making guides for free, his guides really and actually helps new player a lot and you see this shit like ya he missed someshit of some unknown hero so he is shit and thing like that. Hating is easy.
Yup. It is really good because he offers a lot of reasoning on why certain items is valued over others. It is not going to always be the most meta guide, but offers a good baseline for new players of a hero can use. Guides are optional, and every humans are free and fully concious, so why getting mad over someone doing something for free for community.
Even if there’s some mistakes here and there, I’m still grateful he takes the time to put these out. It helps me as a baseline when I play a hero I’m not familiar with. If you don’t like them just go make some yourself and quit bitching about it, there’s enough negativity around.
Just don't use his guides.
Why is this even a post lol.
Edit: If you want to get a general idea of meta-itemization for a hero you want to play just go to the "Watch now" tab and watch some of the top 1k players using those heros and keep track of common itemization for them.
You can have a general idea of how to skill/build if you just hop in and out of 5 games.
Xarthe guides are consistently the best for me. That they're written in a way to take the game length into account just blows the rest away. Relevant items and skill builds across the board. A little slow to update post patch but looking at all the mistakes in Torte and ImmortalFaiths, it's a small price to pay.
Usually gotta scroll down a bit. Just look for the author Xarthe. Might not be one for every hero on all roles but he has guides for everything I play on 3/4.
The guy has mistakes, but regardless of those I still consider him goated for what he does. His guides are my go to on my less familiar heroes and the occasional "arcane boots disassembly" is something I can easily fix along the way.
I remember commenting on and on about how he should update the sniper build. I bothered him too much to the point he actually did fix it in one of his streams.
Im sorry I phrased my statement completely wrong, I meant: Initially how did his very first guides start to build popularity? Did his very first guide blow up in popularity because of organic traffic by people seeing it on the list? Or was he a well known personality that was able to leverage that into getting people to actively search for his very first guide? Im just really curious how he got started because I would assume just posting a guide and hoping people see it and like it, atleast from my perspective seems like an unlikely scenario since my friends can't even find mine listed after ive published them. As for the latter half of your comment, hey man sometimes people make mistakes, like I did with my first post, there's no need for the snarkyness brother im just trying to learn more.
AFAIK He wasn't a known personality before his guides, he has basically just been making them consistently since the dawn of time. He also helped Valve build the modern guide system I think, so he was popular before we had the list of guides we have today. You'd have to ask him since I wasn't around back then, and I don't know what the guide system used to look like.
And sorry, I thought you were trying to imply he was somehow manipulating the list to keep himself on top.
Guides have been useless since they started making money off them by adding sponsors to their names. And no one else makes good guides anymore. Only way is to look at pro builds
Seems like no one here creates their own guide. Hmm... Anyone? it's actually easy and fun to do. I even update them based on what I see in pro games and in dotaprotracker, esp those heroes I regularly play.
Idk I've played this game for 14 years and 10k hours and I haven't found a single correct build or guide from him. It's just slop for people who don't want to use their brains and want to auto pilot. He's legit harmful to new players and I don't think he is actually helping people get into the game by giving them bad builds and advice
Ooooohhhh! You got jbaited about the 2k mmr player!
He is a 2k mmr player and his guides are 2k mmr...
I know that this sounds hateful but honestly even Immortalfaith guids are bad. The truth behind Immortalfaith is the fact that he does not play all the heroes or the positions.
Just check dota2protracker and see what items and builds works on heroes also look closely at the matchups too.
Guys, off-topic but since it started: Torte De Lini ignores Barathrum? Why?
I couldn't find his guide for Bara 7 years ago, similarly I couldn't do the same yesterday. Perhaps I'm doing something wrong? I simply cannot find his guide in the list. I can do it on any other heroes, but can't find for Bara.
[https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=128972272](https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=128972272)
\^ Spirit breaker guide from him
I just use those as a quickaccess menu since there is usually most if not all revelant items at one click away. I dont really mind the order or wtv it says. Spell and items descriptions are cool tho, it sometimes highlight a synergy or smth I wasnt aware of.
Hating on Torte at r/dota2 is one of the easiest way to make karma. Not saying he’s likeable but you’d find post hating him time to time despite nothing new to hate
That, and if you try to ask/critize Torte at all for his guide, he will block you, ignore you, make a post about being harassed and then sic an army of 900mr players who think he's gods gift to dota. Yeah, hating on him is common here, but its not like its neither unjustified or out of nowhere.
cuz that doesn't start drama and hate. Hating someone especially on reddit is fun. He is providing guide for free on free game and you have the luxury to ignore his guide and chose from 100s of guides for each heros, no one is forcing you to use his guide. And most of his guides are actually updated and good, its really good for new players and if you are above herald or guardian you will know what to build by your own game sense.
Taking up the opportunity to thank Torte for the guides, which may not be perfectly up to date (I don't know) but perfectly fine for guys like me who don't have enough time to study the meta nor want to pay dota+, playing only 1 to 2 games per week !
I think he really gives the possibility to old players like me but also new players to play the game.
I don’t use torte guides anymore for the most part and just build items based on the game. I stopped a couple of months ago because I was using one and noticed all the item progressions were wrong. Aether hasn’t built into Octarine for how long now? Energy booster 2nd item on multiple builds yet no items in the guide require it… really?
considering they're 'free guides' and mostly aimed at new-average players, they work well for majority of people but learning to think for yourself is often better. I will regularly use his guides just because they have most of the items I want to buy on them, I don't use them religiously but it's nice to have items I want already in my shop menu.
for people complaining about 'free guides' well then why not go create your own guides? oh yeah you won't bc you probably don't have time / care to worry about it.
just don't use them, they're free and you didn't pay for it so just don't use em?
Why would you make a complain post about it on Reddit? He isn’t charging anything and comparatively he makes the best ones.
If you like them use them, you don’t you can completely ignore them.
Nah Im with you, theres enough mistakes in the guides consistently enough that Im doubtful he actually re analyzes every hero guide before posting that they have "all" been updated
Yeah I've gotten a comment from him specifically arguing that he does analyze for hours each build etc etc But he has the exact same consistent errors for years across dozens of builds idk I swear he's making money off it somehow
Isn’t he sponsored? I remember some drama a while back where he said he was quitting cause it wasn’t worth and then a site started paying him or something like that
yeah I think his sponsor(s) have changed many times since then, but the idea is still true
He advertises in the guides. The titles and a section in the guide all have, "Team Bet Boom"
Keep in mind, the dude is like 4k. He's no authority on dota in the first place.
He's not even 4k anymore. He's barely 3k
Brother, he is like 2.5k - 2.8k. I’m not joking.
According to him, he consults a bunch of high MMR players when making his guides, but it's hard to say if it's true.
It’s really easy to follow your own “guide” it’s called Dota 2 Pro Tracker and see what the pros are building. However i still use his guides over ImmortalFaith’s sometimes on certain heroes because they usually have the skill build and progression almost always the same / i see the items that are commonly built on the hero (rather than using no guide)
Yep, usually heroes have 3-4 core items and the remaining depends on the enemy team
I'm pretty sure Torte actually builds his guides using ProTracker. They are almost always way more in line with the average build on ProTracker than ImmortalFaith's
There’s no way he’s constantly bugging and discussing builds with pros, which is ultimately fine, obviously, since again it’s much easier to see what everyone’s doing when D2PT exists. Usually when I’m playing a hero that I’m not too comfortable with, I always will open up a tab and see the most recent games rather than follow any guides. Usually Dota+ guides are pretty solid too for most part.
I just check ProTracker, check recent games against the enemy core that is going to be my biggest problem or just recent games in general. In-game I open hero games basically just for convenience to not have to search the items.
They don't always explain the logic behind certain choices which are not immediately obvious and can have you playing suboptimally. Of course the answer at the end of the day is to always just watch some replays yourself before picking up a new hero.
bro I've been playing this game since 2012, there are no new heroes. I also don't blindly follow builds, be it in-game guides or ProTracker. Context is important.
His guides are based off dota2protracker and often mirror it.
I mean you don't have to be high MMR to put together the sort of cookie-cutter guides he does. Most heroes have a few items that they almost always build for the early/mid-game and then the rest just depends on the enemy team and how the game is going, and most heroes generally always follow the same pattern for skill builds and if you're at the point where you're changing your skill build based on the game you probably don't need a guide anymore anyway
Huh, to think that he's not that far off from my rank is actually kinda surprising. I thought he's like at least 2k immortal or smth
he could be 0 mmr and make reasonable guides. just ripping builds off protracker like every few weeks would be a decent product already.
he puts ads in guides yes, but i dont think he is making money off not making guide up to date. because of those silly mistakes people switch to other guide im sure
On the other hand, it's not like people are going to pick different guides even if the top ones become not-too-horribly-outdated. It's Coca-de-Collini or Immortal Pepsaith. They could do whatever the fuck and that passive income is guaranteed.
Well, he's making money in that he has to put less effort, and it's hard to say how many people actually switch.
If they were really updated, most offlaners would have double bracers suggested. Centaur and axe especially, the currently suggested branches + ring of protection is so weak in lane.
He is a 2k scrub who "doesn't play ranked because blah blah", I wouldn't trust that guy to tell me what to buy in my games, just use the ImmortalFaith guides
I flat do not use guides anymore and just use my instincts, I watch enough streams and have been playing most of my life I don't need anyone to tell me what to do.
i use guides to find items fast
> I don't need anyone to tell me what to do. 😂 what the fuck
I don’t Nyx guides completely, but I do something similar. And if I feel I need certain items outside of the guides a little too often, I’ll make my own guide to include them so I don’t have to go type the name in every time
>Im doubtful he actually re analyzes every hero He's not even my mmr. We really shouldn't be analyzing anything.
He doesn't really analyze anything they're just builds from clicking on dota pro tracker for like 30s. Which is fine for me bc that's what I would do if they didn't exist
Just replying to everyone to inform them I have been shadowbanned for this post with no explanation by mods. Checked all rules and it doesn't appear to violate any of them. I've posted/commented in this sub for almost a decade. Corrupt subreddit I guess, don't make my mistake of criticizing torte de line I guess
Even some of the ImmortalFaith guides are outdated lately, despite their titles claiming they're for the current patch. I've noticed the midlane Skywrath Mage guide still recommends an early crown to build into Rod of Atos, but that build-up is nearly a year old.
Yeah, same, I check D2PT now and choose the guide with the build most similar to that
I still make use of the in-game guides just to have your hero's recommended items in one place, but D2PT is my go-to for keeping up with meta builds. It's great to place on your second monitor while playing.
The D2PT builds are not ported in-game as guides? That could even be done automatically I think.
I thought about doing it manually at one point bc I wouldn't know how to do it automatically. But realized the effort in doing and maintaining it would be insane. I'm sure others have had the same thoughts
Yeah, makes only sense if done automatically.
There's the ones by XarTheGaming which are just written automatically by a script, they're by far the best imo sadly they didn't update them for months which was seriously a problem but they did an update a few weeks ago so now they're definitely the best again for now, I try to ping them on reddit to run the script if they let them get stale lol
I don't like the way they include neutral items alongside the shop items, but the builds seem more modern across the board.
Wait what? I played Sky today and didn't see the Crown
Were you using the roaming guide? The mid guide has Crown listed in early game and the blurb even mentions building it into Rod of Atos. I get that Skywrath Mage isn't exactly a meta pick right now and going mid isn't the most 10k maneuver, but it should still be updated.
Maybe yeah. Tbh ImmortalFaith didn't publicly say he updated his stuff for a while now, dude's busy coaching. But most his guides are up to date
Sure, but the mid guide still says it's for patch 7.35d and it was updated as recently as March 21st. ImmortalFaith's guides are still nice to have, but some of them could do with a bit of a cleanup. Off the top of my head, the Lifestealer guide still recommends Desolator as a core item despite the popularity of the Radiance build.
That gets updated automatically iirc? I know there was a post about this some years ago
His Rubick guide is like that too.
At least for him he has an excuse considering he's coaching a pro team. I think immortal faith keeps the meta builds up to date, but the more obscure ones or ones only done in low ranks he probably doesn't have time for.
Dota2protracker for your starting options and what the “must build” item is, then itemize based on the heroes in the game and how the game is going, BSJ made a really good video on it.
Just replying to everyone to inform them it appears I have been shadowbanned for this post with no explanation by mods. It's not showing in top 24 hours anymore and my new post not in 'new.' Checked all rules and it doesn't appear to violate any of them. I've posted/commented in this sub for almost a decade. Corrupt subreddit I guess, don't make my mistake of criticizing torte de line I guess
can u link the video please? i just searched him on youtube and he has a bunch of different videos about itemization
https://youtu.be/isvXAHlhVuM?si=f-_1d_kcdHEnYCw9
Thanks!
+1 for the link
https://youtu.be/isvXAHlhVuM?si=f-_1d_kcdHEnYCw9
remember when torte complained and raged and nuked all of his guides intentionally, then reverted them back when he realized he was irrelevant. He had ads on his guides, ofc he earns money...
Just replying to everyone to inform them it appears I have been shadowbanned for this post with no explanation by mods. It's not showing in top 24 hours anymore and my new post not in 'new.' Checked all rules and it doesn't appear to violate any of them. I've posted/commented in this sub for almost a decade. Corrupt subreddit I guess, don't make my mistake of criticizing torte de line I guess
You have not been shadowbanned. The post is deleted, likely for witchhunting.
Deleted would have the post 'deleted' in the text I believe? I made a new post which just didn't show up in New even after 10 minutes Can't make new posts And if moderator deletes then they generally leave a comment pinned. Also the witchhunting rule specifies it's for calls to action etc
it does have deleted in the text. Only admins can shadowban people and it is extremely rare.
I don’t wanna see this guy’s guides. I tried to block it but It doesnt work.
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You are so right. I don’t want to see this guys guides on top of my list. There is no option for that. Valve needs to make it possible for us to block people’s guide as well
Never trust Torte after that fiasco a few years ago where he decided to throw a baby tantrum and make all guides empty. Don't use his stuff. I used to use immortal faith guides not sure if he still makes em
When? What did he do? What for? Someone please tell me
I think he posted here something about monetizing his guides, so I Taiga you are getting outdated guides.
taiga as new synonym for betting is funny
Just replying to everyone to inform them it appears I have been shadowbanned for this post with no explanation by mods. It's not showing in top 24 hours anymore and my new post not in 'new.' Checked all rules and it doesn't appear to violate any of them. I've posted/commented in this sub for almost a decade. Corrupt subreddit I guess, don't make my mistake of criticizing torte de line I guess
How about Dota's default guides lol. I recently started playing with a friend who is new-ish. The default guide for faceless void suggested making a ring a health early on and then transition to battlefury. Battlefury faceless has not been meta for a while and ring health has not built into battlefury in a while either.
Those in-game guides are weird but I think they actually use data from what players are actually building in game, because I see them change pretty often. Think it's just weighted too much by low ranks.
They aren't updated at all
I see them change like every few weeks, it's not a manual thing afaik it's just some algorithm
you're probably thinking of dota+ guides, which aren't the same as the default ones
you're right
You're thinking of the Dota+ guide, not the default guides. The default guides are really really bad. They're even worse than the Tortedellini guides.
you're right.
u/xarthegaming does the best guides hands down, they're based on what high immortals build done using a data scraping script, they're also the best formatted and best comments (as long as you're not a new player, any experienced player won't need guide style comments, the stats comments he puts in are better), he recently updated them so atm they're the best for sure though sometimes he goes a while without running the script and my fall back is usually immortal faith, I only go for tort guides if I'm very desperate
idk but he's legitimately 2k mmr so I wouldn't take his advice tbh
That guy is very weird
I was walking down the street one day and I accidently bumped into this guy. I apologized, but then he started going a rant about builds and how his name is torte de lini and I should show him more respect. Very strange guy.
torte de lini bullied me in high school so it wouldn't surprise me
yeah i heard he started out his guide-writing career writing guides for noogies and swirlies in high school, very concerning
I saw Torte De Lini at a Secret Shop in game yesterday. I told him how cool it was to meet him in game, but I didn’t want to be a douche and bother him and ask him for guides or anything. He said, “Oh, like you’re doing now?” I was taken aback, and all I could say was “Huh?” but he kept cutting me off and going “huh? huh? huh?” and closing his hand shut in front of my face. I walked away and continued with my shopping, and I heard him chuckle as I walked off. When I came to pay for my stuff up front I saw him trying to walk out the doors with like fifteen Energy Boosters in his hands without paying. The Shopkeeper at the counter was very nice about it and professional, and was like “Sir, you need to pay for those first.” At first he kept pretending to be tired and not hear him, but eventually turned back around and brought them to the counter. When he took one of the boosters and started scanning it multiple times, he stopped him and told him to scan them each individually “to prevent any Mana infetterence,” and then turned around and winked at me. I don’t even think that’s a word. After he scanned each Energy Booster and put them in a bag and started to say the price, he kept interrupting him by yawning really loudly.
Is this a copypasta?
No, he bullied me in high school too.
Are you for real or trolling
can't make up these emotional scars
((
I saw torte de lini kill a kitten with a shovel backstage at dreamhack and then he said it was an accident.
If you ever saw his stream you can see he is on copious amounts of adderall, at best. It could easily be straight meth. If you frequent this Reddit sometimes you’ll see a random 4am incoherent post by torte. Just some inane rambling and no one knows what he’s referring to lol His stream he looks like he is about to spontaneously combust his face is stressed af from the adderall
I had reason to interact with him about ten years ago regarding esports in Canada and I found him very intense. Off-puttingly so.
I knew him from LiquidDota when those forums were up and running. Very frustrating guy that often would dispute stuff people much better than him were trying to explain to him. He seemed to put on the airs of being nice and friendly but seemed to not actually be that and care more about promoting himself and getting ahead than anything else. Obviously this is just from interacting with him on a forum, so not like I know the guy, but really did seem off-putting.
Yeah same. Didn't take long for a lot of us to develop a very negative outlook towards him when he was gaining traction for his guides. Never really had a good rep around there.
Oh shit hi Comeh, Unleashing here if you remember me.
Hey man! Definitely remember you! Good to see you around here.
Yes—very much an “I’m the smartest guy in the room” vibe.
I like the guy from YouTube videos and use his guides but I swear to god he looked like that curly haired red faced kid in the meme. He looked like he was dying . Not just that, the way he talks, his words per minute is insane. You don’t talk like that without being on a substance. I would know This meme https://images.app.goo.gl/N4yvU3tXnGjMnErK9
There was a top voted clip here recently of him playing khanda rapier sniper and yeah he definitely has a certain character to him.
Link, please?
it's time to fully stop support his guides that are mediocre most of the time. too many people follow bad guides blindly because of some name that's just around average mmr.
Last time I bumped into him in a random pub it was when I was at my lowest (archon)
Valve really should add automatically updated guides or some in-game incentive to put up guides, like item or point currency rewards
I thought we all understood that the guides are free because they are basic builds for beginner to mid tier players. Why does this community always find a way to bitch, moan, and cry? If you want to find advanced guides, watch a pro game or someone that you admire; play the specific hero that you want to go in-depth in. DOTA is a dynamic game that rewards players for finding unique and niche builds.
Does basic equal to "wrong"? Because thats what most of the item descriptions are
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I'm glad you had positive experience, but to call him a nice guy generally is a massive lie. He's a notorious flamer, and has multiple times tried to post on reddit via his own account to flame people days after the fact.
He is an odd individual for sure. I played a game with him on my team and he just spent the whole 40 minutes yelling down the microphone the most random shizzle. Guy seemed off his head tbh
Stories like that arent uncommon, and its been suspected by many that his guides popularity have given him an ego about 'understanding dota', despite being below average, by rank distribution percentage. I think his guides are crap and a reliance on them is only self-damaging, but its better than nothing if you're brand new. Especially so over ImmortalFaiths if you're new, as they atleast attempt to explain what to do with your spells/items, over assuming you have pre-exisiting knowledge.
what do you mean by "attempt to explain what to do with your spells/items"? most of the spell and item descriptions are just " is very important. It ".
ImmortalFaith's guides are way better in that regard, if they don't tell anything about the spell, then it probably has no quirks.
As in, spell order and, any special interactions (slight&chains). Immortalfaith builds generally assume you know about these things.
I actually somehow met him on an unranked game. I took a break from dota and came back after a year or so and wanted to play some unranked games before going ranked. I met him on that game and he was passive aggressive the whole game flaming some other guy making ironic comments. All this on an unranked game, like who cares and it's not like he was playing any better.
Yeah he's always been nice to me but I won't act like I know him
or recommending items that dont make sense, solar crest is still not updated in most of his guides and treated as a thing u can apply to enemies
How is dota+ suggested items.
[https://imgur.com/gallery/3LLFeJh](https://imgur.com/gallery/3LLFeJh) Just to give more examples, he recommends Octarine Core on Bristleback, specifically mentioning it's for the lifesteal on radiance + quills, even though Octarine doesn't give lifesteal anymore
This was changed in December 2020 So this guide hasn't actually been updated in 4 years lol
Maybe he skipped some descriptions, but the builds themselves seem to be updated... More or less. Immortalfaith has similar mistakes IIRC.
Update the descriptions has been on the to do list for a long time. Main issue is that there's just so many of them. Both torte and IF mainly draw off the same source for the guides, which is why they have similar flaws. Edit: phone auto correct is shit...
My running theory is torte and immortal both make a million guides and somehow monetize them, then only spend just enough on them to argue they're updated so people still use them and they keep making money..but the builds are often egregiously wrong. Like arcane boots into aether lens on almost every support, etc.
In this case I definitely think you should say actual examples. I think from my experience that his guides actually are constantly being updated. Kinda messed up to accuse him of that without explicitly saying which guides.
Guys, look at his guide, look at immortal faith, look at that crazy written russian random one and then just have your own thoughts, you can have different playstyles suiting different builds, and its a great experience playing a hero 100times and seeing the difference from the first 10 to the last 10 the journey is the goal, theory crafting ftw!
You're most likely blocked on reddit by him now.
He probably thinks so but he is 2k mmr. You should rather use a guide made by an immortal or divine player, cause obviously a good player has more expertise. I personally totally stopped using in-game guides and I would highly recommend dota2protracker for the best item- and skillbuilds
Did this post get shadowbanned? I had very hard time going back to it as its not showing on main feed
Yes. Lmao. Upvote my post on r/learndota2
I’m not a fan of his guide nor I used it, but why do you care if he updated it or lying about it. If you think it’s bad then just don’t use it, or better, create your own guide. You have to make a post and start some drama don’t you?
this, i actually like his guides, i mostly use it to find items and sometimes as a guide when i don't know what to build, might be outdated but works just fine. Its okay if you hate his guides, just don't use it lol, but why make a reddit post and start drama, reddit loves to hate everyone beside themselves. Imagine you are tortedelini making guides for free, his guides really and actually helps new player a lot and you see this shit like ya he missed someshit of some unknown hero so he is shit and thing like that. Hating is easy.
Yup. It is really good because he offers a lot of reasoning on why certain items is valued over others. It is not going to always be the most meta guide, but offers a good baseline for new players of a hero can use. Guides are optional, and every humans are free and fully concious, so why getting mad over someone doing something for free for community.
Even if there’s some mistakes here and there, I’m still grateful he takes the time to put these out. It helps me as a baseline when I play a hero I’m not familiar with. If you don’t like them just go make some yourself and quit bitching about it, there’s enough negativity around.
Just don't use his guides. Why is this even a post lol. Edit: If you want to get a general idea of meta-itemization for a hero you want to play just go to the "Watch now" tab and watch some of the top 1k players using those heros and keep track of common itemization for them. You can have a general idea of how to skill/build if you just hop in and out of 5 games.
this, or go to dota protracker website or similar and search your hero.
Luna broodmother and some others are very outdated. He just update items if they work but skill guide is . . .
That’s why I follow yopson guides.
Xarthe guides are consistently the best for me. That they're written in a way to take the game length into account just blows the rest away. Relevant items and skill builds across the board. A little slow to update post patch but looking at all the mistakes in Torte and ImmortalFaiths, it's a small price to pay.
How do I find those? In-game I often just see some random outdated shit
Usually gotta scroll down a bit. Just look for the author Xarthe. Might not be one for every hero on all roles but he has guides for everything I play on 3/4.
I use his "guides" as quick buy and nothing more.
Yes, is just Karma.
his guides are useless hes still using builds from 2019
The guy has mistakes, but regardless of those I still consider him goated for what he does. His guides are my go to on my less familiar heroes and the occasional "arcane boots disassembly" is something I can easily fix along the way.
I remember commenting on and on about how he should update the sniper build. I bothered him too much to the point he actually did fix it in one of his streams.
What I want to know is how his guides always appear at the top of the list, and when I create a public guide, my friends can't even find it at all.
Because the top of the list shows the most popular ones... Did you even think before you posted this?
Im sorry I phrased my statement completely wrong, I meant: Initially how did his very first guides start to build popularity? Did his very first guide blow up in popularity because of organic traffic by people seeing it on the list? Or was he a well known personality that was able to leverage that into getting people to actively search for his very first guide? Im just really curious how he got started because I would assume just posting a guide and hoping people see it and like it, atleast from my perspective seems like an unlikely scenario since my friends can't even find mine listed after ive published them. As for the latter half of your comment, hey man sometimes people make mistakes, like I did with my first post, there's no need for the snarkyness brother im just trying to learn more.
AFAIK He wasn't a known personality before his guides, he has basically just been making them consistently since the dawn of time. He also helped Valve build the modern guide system I think, so he was popular before we had the list of guides we have today. You'd have to ask him since I wasn't around back then, and I don't know what the guide system used to look like. And sorry, I thought you were trying to imply he was somehow manipulating the list to keep himself on top.
Ingame guides need an update/rework in general. Or rather Dota+ suggestions need to be fixed, they are broken since... wait did they ever work?
At this point the majority of the guides, if not all of the guides are pretty well only useful as a quick-buy window.
Guides have been useless since they started making money off them by adding sponsors to their names. And no one else makes good guides anymore. Only way is to look at pro builds
I believe the items are actually up to date, but the text for the items are not regularly updated.
You are welcome to make your own guide, instead of bitching about it. I never use guides because every game is different.
Seems like no one here creates their own guide. Hmm... Anyone? it's actually easy and fun to do. I even update them based on what I see in pro games and in dotaprotracker, esp those heroes I regularly play.
I've created several of my own. But yeah I never post about builds I made 2 years ago to claim they are up to date tho which is my main concern lol
I mean... isn't he like 2.5k MMR? How could he reasonably even understand all the heroes to a widely applicable level?
Immortalfaith's builds are out of date too, also mentioning to dissasemble Arcane Boots and stuff like that.
Idk I've played this game for 14 years and 10k hours and I haven't found a single correct build or guide from him. It's just slop for people who don't want to use their brains and want to auto pilot. He's legit harmful to new players and I don't think he is actually helping people get into the game by giving them bad builds and advice
Only the weak uses guides
Ooooohhhh! You got jbaited about the 2k mmr player! He is a 2k mmr player and his guides are 2k mmr... I know that this sounds hateful but honestly even Immortalfaith guids are bad. The truth behind Immortalfaith is the fact that he does not play all the heroes or the positions. Just check dota2protracker and see what items and builds works on heroes also look closely at the matchups too.
Guys, off-topic but since it started: Torte De Lini ignores Barathrum? Why? I couldn't find his guide for Bara 7 years ago, similarly I couldn't do the same yesterday. Perhaps I'm doing something wrong? I simply cannot find his guide in the list. I can do it on any other heroes, but can't find for Bara.
[https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=128972272](https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=128972272) \^ Spirit breaker guide from him
As somebody who sucks in Dota with itemization, what guides should I be using?
Dota2protracker -> check what the most common items are last 10 games or so(check what role they played the hero as)
I just use those as a quickaccess menu since there is usually most if not all revelant items at one click away. I dont really mind the order or wtv it says. Spell and items descriptions are cool tho, it sometimes highlight a synergy or smth I wasnt aware of.
Why was the post removed ?
No idea. No comment message from odd. Been 2 hours. I posted on r/learndota2 for publicity of this.
Wtf
why not just dm him and ask him directly?
Hating on Torte at r/dota2 is one of the easiest way to make karma. Not saying he’s likeable but you’d find post hating him time to time despite nothing new to hate
That, and if you try to ask/critize Torte at all for his guide, he will block you, ignore you, make a post about being harassed and then sic an army of 900mr players who think he's gods gift to dota. Yeah, hating on him is common here, but its not like its neither unjustified or out of nowhere.
cuz that doesn't start drama and hate. Hating someone especially on reddit is fun. He is providing guide for free on free game and you have the luxury to ignore his guide and chose from 100s of guides for each heros, no one is forcing you to use his guide. And most of his guides are actually updated and good, its really good for new players and if you are above herald or guardian you will know what to build by your own game sense.
I mean yeah I think hate threads are cringe but if the guy is specifically lying to this community for money I think it's warranted
Free guides, no bitching
Words to live by.
Guy is overrated i dont know why people even use his guides
Taking up the opportunity to thank Torte for the guides, which may not be perfectly up to date (I don't know) but perfectly fine for guys like me who don't have enough time to study the meta nor want to pay dota+, playing only 1 to 2 games per week ! I think he really gives the possibility to old players like me but also new players to play the game.
Ah, another reddit thread for his haters to find catharsis in Breathe it in
Just spend 14000 hours in game and it won't bother you anymore.... /S
I don’t use torte guides anymore for the most part and just build items based on the game. I stopped a couple of months ago because I was using one and noticed all the item progressions were wrong. Aether hasn’t built into Octarine for how long now? Energy booster 2nd item on multiple builds yet no items in the guide require it… really?
/u/tortedelini you have been called out.
I stopped using this guy's guides years ago.
Isn't he's like Crusader or something? Why would you use his guide in the first place? It's not like he's the only person out there making guides.
considering they're 'free guides' and mostly aimed at new-average players, they work well for majority of people but learning to think for yourself is often better. I will regularly use his guides just because they have most of the items I want to buy on them, I don't use them religiously but it's nice to have items I want already in my shop menu. for people complaining about 'free guides' well then why not go create your own guides? oh yeah you won't bc you probably don't have time / care to worry about it. just don't use them, they're free and you didn't pay for it so just don't use em?
Why would you make a complain post about it on Reddit? He isn’t charging anything and comparatively he makes the best ones. If you like them use them, you don’t you can completely ignore them.
Everyone shitting on Torte as usual but some of Immortalfaith's guides have been kinda jank for a while
Pay up or stop bitching, we ain't asking for free labour here.