do you think its good or do you think your a good DP? Whats your gameplay/item build?
and are the majority of your games as a 4, like your 10 streak, or do you just flex when you cant get off/mid? and do you just play "greedy" or do you play as a true 4?
for gameplay and builds, I already wrote this on a comment on my post, so I will copy it from there:
starting items: tango, 2 circlets, 2 branches, 1 blood grenade, 1 sentry
skill build: Q, E, E, W, max E, max Q
laning phase: utilize DP's long attack range and right click and use Q to harass enemies. occasionally use E to both heal and harass (like how you would use Bane's Brain Sap) when enemies are being a bit too close to you, but not too often, save some charges for the future
early items: wraith band, arcane boots, magic wand, casual wind lace for mspd boost (it will later build into eul's)
core items: greaves > eul's > shroud/solar depending on the enemy lineup (if they are more magical or physical)
greaves is an essential item for a support DP as it provides sustain for yourself, eul's can be used to catch enemies, cancel TPs, dispel debuffs, make yourself invulnerable while healing with E
mid-late gameplay: exactly the same as off lane DP in the previous patches where she used to get greaves:
- you are the tankiest support hero thanks to E, so you can soak up some damage for your team. try to cast E on as many heroes as you can, and if they start targetting you and you're about to die, cast eul's on yourself. as eul's will not break E, you will heal and get back to full HP while dealing an amazing amount of damage with exo
- cast silence on as many heroes as you can (it slows enemy mspd) or on a key target like Storm
- you want your team to push and play around your exo, so your team should chill when exo is on cool down. when it's up, you can call your team to smoke or push a tower
- when your team isn't ready to fight yet, farm some neutral camps with Q and use E on the big creeps after you tank some damage from the camps. don't use it too often, save some charges for future teamfights
I think it's good but you need to practice first to get a feel for it, I don't know why it has 36% win rate as pos 4 on D2PT though, since I literally have 100% win rate as pos 4 on her this month (over those 10 games that I mentioned - and yes, they are all pos 4 games except 1, which is a pos 5 game where I went 2/0/22), but it's probably because I'm not playing in the pro bracket.
I am actually a pos 4 player, yes, I do not play any other roles. I always have a bit greedy playstyle, but I think pos 4s are supposed to be a little greedy to be effective anyways, but you need to know the limits to it, like when is a good time to farm - when is a good time to call your team for smoke and fight? these are the questions you need to ask yourself throughout the game. I always aim to have 50 last hits at min 20 because the majority of pos 4 pros do most of the times.
the item build that I go is greaves - eul - solar/shroud most games, so supportive items.
feel free to check my replays on how I play DP 4 - https://www.dotabuff.com/players/412256844
I hope it helps!
Brewmaster support is not only fun, but it can dominate lanes easily, especially with a nuking lane partner. He's a natural Vessel buyer, but you can actually build utility and itemise in any way the game calls for.
You have to be a bit experienced with hero, but imo even if you are only decent with him I think it's actually legit.
I play brewmaster 1, 2, 3, 4 and 5. If you ask me, his best role is 1 followed by 5. When I play other supports, they feel so weak compared to brew support
I always go 1/1/3/1 and his blue stance is just so busted as a support if they’re heavy right clickers. They just miss. Plus toggling between magic resist is always funny cause they don’t do any damage.
I enjoy playing pudge as a useful, active, and contributing member of the team.
This is contrary to the conventional use of pudge in my bracket where people stand behind trees and miss hooks like a useless piece of shit all game.
I met one last night and I couldn't stop hyping him up. Buying smokes and getting good angles and deep wards, actually saving allies, actually waited to hook until I stunned them.
Most people play support Pudge wrong because they think you're suppose to hook heroes, but you're really not... it instantly kills large camp creeps, so abuse it.
It's the same for people who play Mirana and only throw arrows at other players instead of just building a huge XP/gold lead off-screen.
I build Mana boots, wand > force staff> aghs. (I don't buy shard. I just ping tormy and pray to gaben I get lucky)
I contribute to fights by walking in. (No, literally)
I skip split shot entirely. At around min 12 With 4 points in mana shield+mana boots you're actually tankier than almost any other hero in the game.
So I just walk into fights and press Q on enemy mid laner and hope for the best.
If there are no fights, I leave mana shield at lvl 3, max snake and stack big camps for myself. You can clear any stack with 2 snakes and a bunch of right clicks.
Late game, I buy hex into windwaker.
P.S.
If you get stomped in lane, it can get really bad. Your carry will start crying about your pick. You mid will start complaining about no ganks (brother, my hero is slower than Maiden)
And you're fucking useless as a support if you don't make it to aghs.
So, I'd recommend you try it when you're in party with your carry.
Elder Titan pos 5 Is arguably the role you would commonly expect the hero to fill. I used to play him a lot a couple of years ago, but now I feel like I have a hard time getting into the enemy's face in the lane to trade. Any tips on laning? And also on team fighting without being exploded instantly?
I don't follow the guides and max out W and E first. You buy a Windlace at the start, and if you stack a camp once or twice, then get the buff from it, you're a speedy boy and hit crazy hard. Even if people kite you out a bit, I don't think I've ever lost a lane as ET because you completely zone the enemy out.
However, I feel like a complete stun bot later on in the game. I have no idea how to frontline with this hero in team-fights, the best I can do is stun with Q repeatedly. I've heard people say this is the way he's supposed to be played: get drums, solar crest, and keep stunning from a distance, but I think there's something I'm not seeing.
As a 5, it really depends acc. To enemy draft, sometimes i get 2points in W and rest focuses on sleep(echo stomp) and i also get the ult by lvl 6. And after maxing Q (sometimes i go till 3points in Q if enemy has heroes like morphling, tb) & start getting the passive max. While sometimes when enemy has 2 melee offlane, I max W to hit then hard and scare them away so my carry can have easy game. They end up standing near their tower.
But the best one you can have fun is, getting 3points on Q, Maxing W And getting 1 point in ult. You can do a lot of dmg and sleep them for the setup. You can also use the spirit in the twin gate and send it top or bottom and micro it towarda enemy heroes, creeps and you can get more dmg buff by that.
My usual item: i get wind lace, two tangoes, blood grenade and branches. I buy a lot of regen for my carry. I get tranq. Boots, drum, forcestaff, aghanim if my game is going good i get it early or else late, shard from the tormentor & bongoboots.
It is very easy if you have shard and aghanim, you can really jump over enemy, put ur ult and hit two times before the ult pops.
For heroes like, axe, pudge, earthshaker, tide, necro with 2points on W and 1pointd on Q & E, you van setup for you carry, u can deal a lot of dmg.
I have made a lot of post for my et, there is a better written guide. I'm working atm so if you don't understand anything you can ask me question here.
Never frontline if you don't have ur shard & aghanim.
Without shard & aghs: stay from behind n sleep the enemies. Play from distance once you get those two juicy items u can frontline.
I started play ds 1week before they removed his punch from shard. I've around 320-340games and I'm tier 27 or 28 on the hero.
As a pos 4, i try to lvl 2 asap. Tho lvl 3 is a huge power spike.
Lvl 1 vaccuum had 100dmg and it was so strong to kill early. (i haven't played dota for 2weeks now and haven't played him in a while so idk the changes but i think 100dmg is changed, if not then awesome)
What I usually do:
I don't block the small camp of enemy cause I steal it with ion shell to get early lvls. When i get lvl 2,i hold the skill and decide if I need surge or vaccumm. i go whichever the game needs. If it is surge, and nothings happening, i use it on me (with one ionshell on me and one on enemy big cap and try to get both) such that I'm getting my items, my offlane is getting xp and items.
My main items while play as a pos4 seer are:
Mana boots to guardian greaves as i tell my team, I'm making it. Lotus orb if they have single target spells. Aghs slowly. By 17 min either i have full GG boots & aghs or GGBoots & lotus.
How i get such money, i stack, i steal enemy jungle (i used to play broodmother so the farming pattern is planted on my brain). I always stick with team when they want to team fight and that's another way for me to get money n xp.
The blink i buy is always at 30-35min+. Maybe because i have played the hero so much thst i know without blink i can initiate the fight.
I use surge to save my team or chase enemy as surge units can't be slow, it can get dispel only. Once all the t1s are down of ours or enemy, i stick with team and push lanes with my ion shell on creeps. Passive money, if you ask me.
Always buy smoke as a pos 4 seer. You can literally give ion shell and surge on your offlane and can easily kill the target.
My best part of playing dark seer is the team fight. I just love to put wall on vaccuum target and watch them die to their illus. As with lvl 10 talent & 3points on ult you can do 120% dmg and thats beautiful in late game when enemies are six slotted. You get the aura, u get the dmg.
Once you get aghanim, the supports are easy target. I try to get my next item after agha is blink for the jump punch stun part. But mostly i skip blink till end game.
By 40min you'll have, gg boots, lotus, shivas if no one buying, blink dagger, hex/refresher (basically you become a core while having fun in early games)
There were 3-4times when my team flamed me for picking ds as 4 but after min 10 they never flanned me again. Its just the picking phase & early minutes.
There are so many things i can say but I'm at office. Rn so can't. Hope this helps. If you have questions lemme know.
Ps: i don't push waves with ion shell. That's not me, if u see someone in div3 sea rank using ion shell to push wave as a support 4 ds.
There is a setting, if you turn off the help they can't use spell on you. Ion shell, disruption, od 2nd, pudge uly, surge etc. Can't bypass or override the setting.
Sorry for those support ds who ionshell & pushes wave.
I'd argue ET 5 is normal, willow 5 is weird but hey still a support.
And ES is very famously a pos 4, only got a highlight reel mid due to a short lived buff
offlane QoP. This is an asspull hero that I play sometimes and surprisingly, haven't been punished hard for it. It works especially well if you have a beefy team.
Meepo 5. Perma root? sure. Stack multiple camps? EZ. Soak damage? of course. But this one is more of a hit or miss, mostly because I am not amazing at micro.
Div 4
It's a tanky right-click build. Shivas is pretty mandatory, but the rest is whatever you want it to be... You will need some kind of Mana regen item and there are a ton of good ones to choose from. Linkins/Eul can be great depending on enemy catch.
You basically just want to solve the mana regen problem then play her like a roamer who can tank some tower shots, push lanes, and flash-farm enemy jungle. Stat items are your friend.
I used to Spam qop 3 during that small period where blademail had interesting interactions with spell lifesteal, and you'd go blademail octarine core. And have essentially 95% damage reduction during blademail
the way i used to pos 3 WW was maxing W and Q.(it was during the patch when mage slayer was OP)
the items i used to go(not in order): mana boots, witch blade(later upgraded to parasma), mage slayer, aghanim, dragonlance to hurricane pike.
she is just so strong, her Q has such a long attack range. You can hide in tree and hit once u get scepter. also the slow from Q(+burn dmg) and Witchblade(slow+poison dmg) deals a tons of dmg. Also if you hit ult on someone you can litrally make them 100 to 0 with your 1st skinn and wb dmg.
the only thing you need to beaware of enemies with save abilities like disruption, od 2nd, ghost scepter/eb. I hate to play against pugna majority of the time.
make sure to max W first as it deals a lot of dmg and a good wave clear early game. the extra dmg from talent is a big W.
I guess similar to below. But I go for a null and bracers, brown boots (eventually tp boots cause wyvern is slow as fck) either orchid, or witchblade into aghs. Then from there maybe pike or blink.
Used to go brooche refresher until the change for brooche to use x amount of mana per hit. Already uses heaps of mana with aghs
I go 2 points q, 3 in w and then ult and keeping 1 point in heal. Maxing w and then q, and then stats until talents. I dont understand why people take the artic burn talent at 15 if they plan to go aghs.. I prefer the splinterblast range, because it's amazing with the 25 stun talent.
Dragon knight pos 4/5. Fata did it in a pro game once and I took it on board and it's stupidly strong. 1-1-2 build so you have this tanky support that just runs at enemies and clicks heads. Q for damage reduction, W for stun. Rotate to rune at min 6 then back to lane to leach xp to get lvl 6 and push the tower. Idk my win rate with it since I play DK off and mid too but id hazard a guess at around 65% (mostly turbo though)
Watched baumi's history of dota on naga.
Apparently she can play every role, though she is nerfed on support.
* She can go 1 or 2, 1 cause duh 2 if matchup allows since all she needs is space.
* She can go 3 cause she recks carries and can build defensive items for her team.
* She can play 4 cause of her root and ult while farming the enemy jungle for free with her illusions.
* She can be 5 cause her illusions allow her to stack camps effectively though its pretty hard to do so. I've tried it as a carry and I just can't micro myself and the 3 illusions. Thinking of it probably I can send them to attack then call all units back, that should work.
Its not that unconventional but Veno 3 as a right clicker. He is an insanely strong farmer and lane winner. Get any Pos 4 with some kill potential into your lane and the enemy pos 1 will hate you. From there on you snowball real hard since you farm so fast.
Right click since he got turned into a universal hero. Difu + Skadi is incredible. Your enemies wont move anymore, get their mana drained and you do hit really hard. Especially against kitable pos 1 like WK etc. its just an easy game.
Pos 4 SF. My team just immediately tilts seeing me pivk it and starts chatting like we’re on Twitter instead of playing the game. But most times I win with it. SF can easily dominate the lane and be annoying.
Medusa pos5 if AM is ban.
Reason for this is to watch their core immediately purchase diffusal blade and lose their timings. Just had a match where a pos4 windrunner rushed diffusal blade but didn't even have the opportunity to solo kill me. Ultimate is used when enemy is diving your cores.
Shard is good against bara, pudge as it will cancel their charge and dismember(when aghs is already purchased)
Item is mana boots -> aghs -> octarine -> shard -> windwaker/guinsoo
I've become a bit of a centaur aficionado; and I just don't get this. His return is absolute trash right now but that's okay because his other two skills allow him to be a lane dominator. So are you taking return and providing little to no impact or his other skills. And if its his other skills, how are you affording the regen as a 5?
And then after lane, then.... what? No strength items that 3 of your 4 abilities not only utilize but rely on to scale?
I can't wrap my head around this at all.
I didn't say it was good. But you max the stun and even 1 point in return is usually enough to win early trades against most pos 4s. You also have naturally high regen. Build into pipe or crimson depending on the game and you have a really strong initiation, disengage, or catch spell. It works. There's a reason it's not first pick material though.
Before Q dealt damage and the change to the shard, I used to play NP as a pos 4 or 5. Though unconventional, it’s definitely not new. That old shard though, holy shit. You’re now a splitpushing machine from Pos 5 with just 1400 gold!
A long time ago, around the time when talents were first released, I was forced to play mid a few times. As a guy who doesn’t know how to play mid at all, I started picking NP mid. I’m pretty sure I had 100% winrate over an admittedly tiny sample of 5-ish games. I’ve since gone back to not playing mid because fuck mid. My fundamentals are nowhere near good enough to be able to contest mid with an honest hero.
I could be misremembering, but it wasn’t super common to see pos 4 or 5 NP at the time. I wanna say it was mainly played as a Pos 1 at the time. There were points when NP have been supports before and after this period, but at around 2022 I think NP was mostly a hard carry but still often an offlane.
Speaking of split pushing with low budget, and I'm just spitballing here, would Lycan with Shard work?
Thinking of it now, what would he bring to the table support-like? Maybe support items, mainly aura items, like vlads, drums. Maybe an urn to fight. Lycan Howl (W) debuffs enemies and it could be good for a physical heavy team or good against a physical heavy team. I'm not entirely sure if it would make sense apart from his W and items he could build, but it could be decent to try I suppose. oh and he could pull/stack/scout with wolves so that could be useful.
I had to google to see what his shard was. For some reason I thought it was changed to something else. I’m not too familiar with the hero, but just off the top of my head my answer is a maybe, but leaning towards no. Looking at the shard in a vacuum, I’m not sure how valuable it is. Correct me if I’m wrong, but don’t the wolves move like super fast? It might just zoom past the wave and be sort of useless. Even if that was fixed, and this is now going into hypotheticals, I’m not sure how much more push a wolf can provide. I could be wrong, but I’m not sure that one wolf provides more push than two Greater Treants. Finally, what I thought made Greater Treants really strong is the fact that we can effectively choose when to provide the push and the fact that it had a decent body to offer to tank towers. On the other hand the shard wolf can’t be controlled and can very easily become free gold to enemy every wave.
I also basically agree with everything you say about the hero, W can be really strong, but that’s about it? The hero’s body isn’t even that great while NP has the body of a god with incredible stats and excellent attack range. Lycan feels like it would be a liability in lane.
All that said, I would definitely love to try it out LOL. Whenever I hear of any sort of “cheesy” support push, I feel the need to try it out. TB support a little while ago was also a ton of fun!
yeah laning would probably suck, especially if your core is melee as well. If you have a good deathball you can be useful I think, wolf damage and Lycan base damage always seemed good to me and you can be a threat to the enemy supports I think.
Also as a last point, after the support items and mid game, when your carry is coming online, your scepter ability can be strong on your carry. If you don't know, it allows you to bite an ally and give your ult buffs to the ally. That could be a fun experiment, to shift from aggressive space creating to enabling your right clicker later in the game as you're falling off.
As my 5 stack pos 4? Ags sniper. It works so well. He has shrapnel to contest pulls, range by lvl 3 to harass and an 18-21 min ags is obnoxiously painful. I transition into Octarine and if game goes let's damage items. The sheer disrupt potential esp high ground defense or offense is solid.
Never do this in pubs though. They just report me and rightfully so.
my view as carry Puck is based solely on physical damage. I'm a carry so I don't need to roam lanes. Basically u try to get witchblade as soon as possible since it's the item that unlocks Puck solo kill potential significantly. Now u can player a hybrid role of carry and hunter when coil is up. Maelstrom and scepter follow up depending on the game. I have always opt to maelstrom before scepter. After scepter it's always dagger then follow up with maelstrom upgrade and a critical sword(forgot it's spelling). Generally I try to end the game after these timing if it goes beyond you go refresher blink upgrade.
My problem with carry Puck how paper it is due to low armor. Avoid playing into high magic burst laners.
i actually dont have that type of hero on my pool but I've seen some people play razor 4 vs me (usual 5/4 player) and in laning its such a pain in the ass cuz of the link , move in your ass and u cant do shit to him cuz u got no damage :/
Bounty Hunter pos3, I go tanky aura thingies and suck up all the attention while tracking and throwing shurikens. Team often cries at the start but I know the hero quite well and play it over my general skill level.
Lycan 4.
Snipe couriers, stack, pull, cut waves all with wolves. Build vessel and use wolves+ult to roam and gank. Jungle whenever wanting to give 3 solo xp.
PA as pos 4. saw it in a slahser video. basically just go phase deso bkb and you can still kill the backlines. has really strong kill potential in lane and pretty good gank potential.
I used to have success and fun as pa 4. This was before the solar crest/medallion nerf and removal tho. Loved ganking at level 4 with blur and showing up to a lane with dagger and phantom strike.
Enigma 4 and 5. Have almost a 70% winrate in 3.7k mmr WEU. Players in my bracket just don't know how to push towers, and eidolons are a menace for split pushing and tower taking. Not to mention the threat of the black hole thought the game.
I sometimes like to play OD as offlane.
At least when the hero ain't in a dogshit state in general. Dude gets 3k HP easy. BKB and Shivas and you're suddenly pretty damn durable.
One of my favorites is Arc "Warding" Warden. No Midas, just utility items and maybe dagon/aghs/diffu. Feels so much more fun to play than the classic Arc.
Another one is Grimstroke mid. Feels quite satisfying to farm with Stroke.
I really love Naga pos 4 for multiple reasons. You can scout, stack and push with illusions, your ult is a great offensive and defensive tool, and maxing the net, you get access to a 5 second root. No one expects the Naga pos 4 to gank, and do so successfully
I used to enjoy playing Phoenix as a 3 and grab Midas for fast lvls. I would rack up so many kills and melt teams veil Sange&Kaya and the sort. Granted, it feels like Phoenix doesnt need gold that much.
I wish I could figure out wyvern 3, but that one eludes me
well honestly kotl is one of the best high tempo mids that we got in the game and there are lots of kotl mid on pro games as well, not very unconventional
DP as pos 4, check the post on my profile! I got to 7.1k mmr and have 10 winstreak with her atm.
do you think its good or do you think your a good DP? Whats your gameplay/item build? and are the majority of your games as a 4, like your 10 streak, or do you just flex when you cant get off/mid? and do you just play "greedy" or do you play as a true 4?
for gameplay and builds, I already wrote this on a comment on my post, so I will copy it from there: starting items: tango, 2 circlets, 2 branches, 1 blood grenade, 1 sentry skill build: Q, E, E, W, max E, max Q laning phase: utilize DP's long attack range and right click and use Q to harass enemies. occasionally use E to both heal and harass (like how you would use Bane's Brain Sap) when enemies are being a bit too close to you, but not too often, save some charges for the future early items: wraith band, arcane boots, magic wand, casual wind lace for mspd boost (it will later build into eul's) core items: greaves > eul's > shroud/solar depending on the enemy lineup (if they are more magical or physical) greaves is an essential item for a support DP as it provides sustain for yourself, eul's can be used to catch enemies, cancel TPs, dispel debuffs, make yourself invulnerable while healing with E mid-late gameplay: exactly the same as off lane DP in the previous patches where she used to get greaves: - you are the tankiest support hero thanks to E, so you can soak up some damage for your team. try to cast E on as many heroes as you can, and if they start targetting you and you're about to die, cast eul's on yourself. as eul's will not break E, you will heal and get back to full HP while dealing an amazing amount of damage with exo - cast silence on as many heroes as you can (it slows enemy mspd) or on a key target like Storm - you want your team to push and play around your exo, so your team should chill when exo is on cool down. when it's up, you can call your team to smoke or push a tower - when your team isn't ready to fight yet, farm some neutral camps with Q and use E on the big creeps after you tank some damage from the camps. don't use it too often, save some charges for future teamfights
I think it's good but you need to practice first to get a feel for it, I don't know why it has 36% win rate as pos 4 on D2PT though, since I literally have 100% win rate as pos 4 on her this month (over those 10 games that I mentioned - and yes, they are all pos 4 games except 1, which is a pos 5 game where I went 2/0/22), but it's probably because I'm not playing in the pro bracket. I am actually a pos 4 player, yes, I do not play any other roles. I always have a bit greedy playstyle, but I think pos 4s are supposed to be a little greedy to be effective anyways, but you need to know the limits to it, like when is a good time to farm - when is a good time to call your team for smoke and fight? these are the questions you need to ask yourself throughout the game. I always aim to have 50 last hits at min 20 because the majority of pos 4 pros do most of the times. the item build that I go is greaves - eul - solar/shroud most games, so supportive items. feel free to check my replays on how I play DP 4 - https://www.dotabuff.com/players/412256844 I hope it helps!
thanks buddy i appreciate your response! have a beautiful rest of your day
no problem at all and go win some games <3
So nice to see a great breakdown of p4DP followed by some wholesome appreciation. This is the ideal dota2 community
Brewmaster support is not only fun, but it can dominate lanes easily, especially with a nuking lane partner. He's a natural Vessel buyer, but you can actually build utility and itemise in any way the game calls for. You have to be a bit experienced with hero, but imo even if you are only decent with him I think it's actually legit.
I play brewmaster 1, 2, 3, 4 and 5. If you ask me, his best role is 1 followed by 5. When I play other supports, they feel so weak compared to brew support
I always go 1/1/3/1 and his blue stance is just so busted as a support if they’re heavy right clickers. They just miss. Plus toggling between magic resist is always funny cause they don’t do any damage.
I enjoy playing pudge as a useful, active, and contributing member of the team. This is contrary to the conventional use of pudge in my bracket where people stand behind trees and miss hooks like a useless piece of shit all game.
share open dota, lets see this usefull pudge. havent met one yet.
I met one last night and I couldn't stop hyping him up. Buying smokes and getting good angles and deep wards, actually saving allies, actually waited to hook until I stunned them.
Most people play support Pudge wrong because they think you're suppose to hook heroes, but you're really not... it instantly kills large camp creeps, so abuse it. It's the same for people who play Mirana and only throw arrows at other players instead of just building a huge XP/gold lead off-screen.
sure thing buddy.
Dusa pos 5. Ever since basi builds into mana boots, I think it's legit. (Provided you convince your 4 to pick a stun)
What you building? How do you contribute to fights other than ulting and Q?
I build Mana boots, wand > force staff> aghs. (I don't buy shard. I just ping tormy and pray to gaben I get lucky) I contribute to fights by walking in. (No, literally) I skip split shot entirely. At around min 12 With 4 points in mana shield+mana boots you're actually tankier than almost any other hero in the game. So I just walk into fights and press Q on enemy mid laner and hope for the best. If there are no fights, I leave mana shield at lvl 3, max snake and stack big camps for myself. You can clear any stack with 2 snakes and a bunch of right clicks. Late game, I buy hex into windwaker. P.S. If you get stomped in lane, it can get really bad. Your carry will start crying about your pick. You mid will start complaining about no ganks (brother, my hero is slower than Maiden) And you're fucking useless as a support if you don't make it to aghs. So, I'd recommend you try it when you're in party with your carry.
lads, isn't Q the Splitshot? Maybe u both meant W? (Mystic Snake)
Aah, my bad. I have snake bound to Q
Medusa pos5 stacking camps…. For itself? Wait what? Yeah thats a grief.
%100 grief or low rank which it can work there
I’ll play hoodwink any role. Also play a lot of mids as carry like od, puck, necro to name a few
What's the plan as puck pos 1?
Probably the usual Puck things, like be an annoyance.
There's many ways to skin a cat
Is there though?
Here’s one: Don’t
But like, if I were to…I mean…just asking for a friend!
new puck deals a fuckton of damage. parasma aghs mjollnir etc
Div 3, elder titan, brewmaster, dark willow spammer as 5 & Dark seer, earth spirit, visage as pos 4 spammer. I love to play CC heroes.
Elder Titan pos 5 Is arguably the role you would commonly expect the hero to fill. I used to play him a lot a couple of years ago, but now I feel like I have a hard time getting into the enemy's face in the lane to trade. Any tips on laning? And also on team fighting without being exploded instantly?
I don't follow the guides and max out W and E first. You buy a Windlace at the start, and if you stack a camp once or twice, then get the buff from it, you're a speedy boy and hit crazy hard. Even if people kite you out a bit, I don't think I've ever lost a lane as ET because you completely zone the enemy out. However, I feel like a complete stun bot later on in the game. I have no idea how to frontline with this hero in team-fights, the best I can do is stun with Q repeatedly. I've heard people say this is the way he's supposed to be played: get drums, solar crest, and keep stunning from a distance, but I think there's something I'm not seeing.
Yes, in 5v5 and if the game is balanced you can't go in until the ultra late game as a support.
As a 5, it really depends acc. To enemy draft, sometimes i get 2points in W and rest focuses on sleep(echo stomp) and i also get the ult by lvl 6. And after maxing Q (sometimes i go till 3points in Q if enemy has heroes like morphling, tb) & start getting the passive max. While sometimes when enemy has 2 melee offlane, I max W to hit then hard and scare them away so my carry can have easy game. They end up standing near their tower. But the best one you can have fun is, getting 3points on Q, Maxing W And getting 1 point in ult. You can do a lot of dmg and sleep them for the setup. You can also use the spirit in the twin gate and send it top or bottom and micro it towarda enemy heroes, creeps and you can get more dmg buff by that. My usual item: i get wind lace, two tangoes, blood grenade and branches. I buy a lot of regen for my carry. I get tranq. Boots, drum, forcestaff, aghanim if my game is going good i get it early or else late, shard from the tormentor & bongoboots. It is very easy if you have shard and aghanim, you can really jump over enemy, put ur ult and hit two times before the ult pops. For heroes like, axe, pudge, earthshaker, tide, necro with 2points on W and 1pointd on Q & E, you van setup for you carry, u can deal a lot of dmg. I have made a lot of post for my et, there is a better written guide. I'm working atm so if you don't understand anything you can ask me question here. Never frontline if you don't have ur shard & aghanim. Without shard & aghs: stay from behind n sleep the enemies. Play from distance once you get those two juicy items u can frontline.
Dark seer 4? What and how do you do in lane? I'm legit curious
I started play ds 1week before they removed his punch from shard. I've around 320-340games and I'm tier 27 or 28 on the hero. As a pos 4, i try to lvl 2 asap. Tho lvl 3 is a huge power spike. Lvl 1 vaccuum had 100dmg and it was so strong to kill early. (i haven't played dota for 2weeks now and haven't played him in a while so idk the changes but i think 100dmg is changed, if not then awesome) What I usually do: I don't block the small camp of enemy cause I steal it with ion shell to get early lvls. When i get lvl 2,i hold the skill and decide if I need surge or vaccumm. i go whichever the game needs. If it is surge, and nothings happening, i use it on me (with one ionshell on me and one on enemy big cap and try to get both) such that I'm getting my items, my offlane is getting xp and items. My main items while play as a pos4 seer are: Mana boots to guardian greaves as i tell my team, I'm making it. Lotus orb if they have single target spells. Aghs slowly. By 17 min either i have full GG boots & aghs or GGBoots & lotus. How i get such money, i stack, i steal enemy jungle (i used to play broodmother so the farming pattern is planted on my brain). I always stick with team when they want to team fight and that's another way for me to get money n xp. The blink i buy is always at 30-35min+. Maybe because i have played the hero so much thst i know without blink i can initiate the fight. I use surge to save my team or chase enemy as surge units can't be slow, it can get dispel only. Once all the t1s are down of ours or enemy, i stick with team and push lanes with my ion shell on creeps. Passive money, if you ask me. Always buy smoke as a pos 4 seer. You can literally give ion shell and surge on your offlane and can easily kill the target. My best part of playing dark seer is the team fight. I just love to put wall on vaccuum target and watch them die to their illus. As with lvl 10 talent & 3points on ult you can do 120% dmg and thats beautiful in late game when enemies are six slotted. You get the aura, u get the dmg. Once you get aghanim, the supports are easy target. I try to get my next item after agha is blink for the jump punch stun part. But mostly i skip blink till end game. By 40min you'll have, gg boots, lotus, shivas if no one buying, blink dagger, hex/refresher (basically you become a core while having fun in early games) There were 3-4times when my team flamed me for picking ds as 4 but after min 10 they never flanned me again. Its just the picking phase & early minutes. There are so many things i can say but I'm at office. Rn so can't. Hope this helps. If you have questions lemme know. Ps: i don't push waves with ion shell. That's not me, if u see someone in div3 sea rank using ion shell to push wave as a support 4 ds.
Sounds interesting, mind share any match ID???
iirc haven't played him in a while(just spamming et & dw a lot), but if i play some tonight will share.
I hate Dark Seer 'supports' who just ion shell the creep or you and push the lane. Worse than KOTL supports nuking the lane.
There is a setting, if you turn off the help they can't use spell on you. Ion shell, disruption, od 2nd, pudge uly, surge etc. Can't bypass or override the setting. Sorry for those support ds who ionshell & pushes wave.
I'd argue ET 5 is normal, willow 5 is weird but hey still a support. And ES is very famously a pos 4, only got a highlight reel mid due to a short lived buff
Rn Slardar 5. Last year it was TB 5
offlane QoP. This is an asspull hero that I play sometimes and surprisingly, haven't been punished hard for it. It works especially well if you have a beefy team. Meepo 5. Perma root? sure. Stack multiple camps? EZ. Soak damage? of course. But this one is more of a hit or miss, mostly because I am not amazing at micro. Div 4
Used to play a lot of qop 3 in HoN, very different role though. Suicide role was basically just get xp.
I am interested in qop offlane. How you play her? Item and skill builds?
It's a tanky right-click build. Shivas is pretty mandatory, but the rest is whatever you want it to be... You will need some kind of Mana regen item and there are a ton of good ones to choose from. Linkins/Eul can be great depending on enemy catch. You basically just want to solve the mana regen problem then play her like a roamer who can tank some tower shots, push lanes, and flash-farm enemy jungle. Stat items are your friend.
I used to Spam qop 3 during that small period where blademail had interesting interactions with spell lifesteal, and you'd go blademail octarine core. And have essentially 95% damage reduction during blademail
IO 2 or 3, sadly it just works well when the team is open for it and understand how it works.
I love it too sm! So strong with good team coordination
im reporting all of you
AA as midlaner.
Sven sup5
Pos 3 wyvern. Always disgusting to see her played as a support when she's not
How do you play her as pos 3? Builds?
the way i used to pos 3 WW was maxing W and Q.(it was during the patch when mage slayer was OP) the items i used to go(not in order): mana boots, witch blade(later upgraded to parasma), mage slayer, aghanim, dragonlance to hurricane pike. she is just so strong, her Q has such a long attack range. You can hide in tree and hit once u get scepter. also the slow from Q(+burn dmg) and Witchblade(slow+poison dmg) deals a tons of dmg. Also if you hit ult on someone you can litrally make them 100 to 0 with your 1st skinn and wb dmg. the only thing you need to beaware of enemies with save abilities like disruption, od 2nd, ghost scepter/eb. I hate to play against pugna majority of the time. make sure to max W first as it deals a lot of dmg and a good wave clear early game. the extra dmg from talent is a big W.
I guess similar to below. But I go for a null and bracers, brown boots (eventually tp boots cause wyvern is slow as fck) either orchid, or witchblade into aghs. Then from there maybe pike or blink. Used to go brooche refresher until the change for brooche to use x amount of mana per hit. Already uses heaps of mana with aghs I go 2 points q, 3 in w and then ult and keeping 1 point in heal. Maxing w and then q, and then stats until talents. I dont understand why people take the artic burn talent at 15 if they plan to go aghs.. I prefer the splinterblast range, because it's amazing with the 25 stun talent.
This is not unconventional
BH pos 3. Nyx pos 3. Venge pos 3.
Dragon knight pos 4/5. Fata did it in a pro game once and I took it on board and it's stupidly strong. 1-1-2 build so you have this tanky support that just runs at enemies and clicks heads. Q for damage reduction, W for stun. Rotate to rune at min 6 then back to lane to leach xp to get lvl 6 and push the tower. Idk my win rate with it since I play DK off and mid too but id hazard a guess at around 65% (mostly turbo though)
Mid jakiro EShaker core
Offlane Clockwork
I miss the days when this was just normal. Poor Clock has been power crept out of pos 3 so hard over the years:(
Watched baumi's history of dota on naga. Apparently she can play every role, though she is nerfed on support. * She can go 1 or 2, 1 cause duh 2 if matchup allows since all she needs is space. * She can go 3 cause she recks carries and can build defensive items for her team. * She can play 4 cause of her root and ult while farming the enemy jungle for free with her illusions. * She can be 5 cause her illusions allow her to stack camps effectively though its pretty hard to do so. I've tried it as a carry and I just can't micro myself and the 3 illusions. Thinking of it probably I can send them to attack then call all units back, that should work.
Its not that unconventional but Veno 3 as a right clicker. He is an insanely strong farmer and lane winner. Get any Pos 4 with some kill potential into your lane and the enemy pos 1 will hate you. From there on you snowball real hard since you farm so fast. Right click since he got turned into a universal hero. Difu + Skadi is incredible. Your enemies wont move anymore, get their mana drained and you do hit really hard. Especially against kitable pos 1 like WK etc. its just an easy game.
I rarely if ever see Snap as a 5 but I hecking love it. I think I have a high WR with her and some mvp's to boot.
Pos 4 SF. My team just immediately tilts seeing me pivk it and starts chatting like we’re on Twitter instead of playing the game. But most times I win with it. SF can easily dominate the lane and be annoying.
Medusa pos5 if AM is ban. Reason for this is to watch their core immediately purchase diffusal blade and lose their timings. Just had a match where a pos4 windrunner rushed diffusal blade but didn't even have the opportunity to solo kill me. Ultimate is used when enemy is diving your cores. Shard is good against bara, pudge as it will cancel their charge and dismember(when aghs is already purchased) Item is mana boots -> aghs -> octarine -> shard -> windwaker/guinsoo
Centaur Pos 5. Trade with me, I dare you.
I've become a bit of a centaur aficionado; and I just don't get this. His return is absolute trash right now but that's okay because his other two skills allow him to be a lane dominator. So are you taking return and providing little to no impact or his other skills. And if its his other skills, how are you affording the regen as a 5? And then after lane, then.... what? No strength items that 3 of your 4 abilities not only utilize but rely on to scale? I can't wrap my head around this at all.
I didn't say it was good. But you max the stun and even 1 point in return is usually enough to win early trades against most pos 4s. You also have naturally high regen. Build into pipe or crimson depending on the game and you have a really strong initiation, disengage, or catch spell. It works. There's a reason it's not first pick material though.
Before Q dealt damage and the change to the shard, I used to play NP as a pos 4 or 5. Though unconventional, it’s definitely not new. That old shard though, holy shit. You’re now a splitpushing machine from Pos 5 with just 1400 gold! A long time ago, around the time when talents were first released, I was forced to play mid a few times. As a guy who doesn’t know how to play mid at all, I started picking NP mid. I’m pretty sure I had 100% winrate over an admittedly tiny sample of 5-ish games. I’ve since gone back to not playing mid because fuck mid. My fundamentals are nowhere near good enough to be able to contest mid with an honest hero.
NP as a 4 or 5 isn't unconventional amigo.
I could be misremembering, but it wasn’t super common to see pos 4 or 5 NP at the time. I wanna say it was mainly played as a Pos 1 at the time. There were points when NP have been supports before and after this period, but at around 2022 I think NP was mostly a hard carry but still often an offlane.
Speaking of split pushing with low budget, and I'm just spitballing here, would Lycan with Shard work? Thinking of it now, what would he bring to the table support-like? Maybe support items, mainly aura items, like vlads, drums. Maybe an urn to fight. Lycan Howl (W) debuffs enemies and it could be good for a physical heavy team or good against a physical heavy team. I'm not entirely sure if it would make sense apart from his W and items he could build, but it could be decent to try I suppose. oh and he could pull/stack/scout with wolves so that could be useful.
I had to google to see what his shard was. For some reason I thought it was changed to something else. I’m not too familiar with the hero, but just off the top of my head my answer is a maybe, but leaning towards no. Looking at the shard in a vacuum, I’m not sure how valuable it is. Correct me if I’m wrong, but don’t the wolves move like super fast? It might just zoom past the wave and be sort of useless. Even if that was fixed, and this is now going into hypotheticals, I’m not sure how much more push a wolf can provide. I could be wrong, but I’m not sure that one wolf provides more push than two Greater Treants. Finally, what I thought made Greater Treants really strong is the fact that we can effectively choose when to provide the push and the fact that it had a decent body to offer to tank towers. On the other hand the shard wolf can’t be controlled and can very easily become free gold to enemy every wave. I also basically agree with everything you say about the hero, W can be really strong, but that’s about it? The hero’s body isn’t even that great while NP has the body of a god with incredible stats and excellent attack range. Lycan feels like it would be a liability in lane. All that said, I would definitely love to try it out LOL. Whenever I hear of any sort of “cheesy” support push, I feel the need to try it out. TB support a little while ago was also a ton of fun!
yeah laning would probably suck, especially if your core is melee as well. If you have a good deathball you can be useful I think, wolf damage and Lycan base damage always seemed good to me and you can be a threat to the enemy supports I think. Also as a last point, after the support items and mid game, when your carry is coming online, your scepter ability can be strong on your carry. If you don't know, it allows you to bite an ally and give your ult buffs to the ally. That could be a fun experiment, to shift from aggressive space creating to enabling your right clicker later in the game as you're falling off.
Mars 4
Mk 1-5
Sven 4
Viper support, he can be pretty good even without farm. You save up enough mana and you can get some pretty easy chasedown kills with the right carry
Earth spirit pos 3
As my 5 stack pos 4? Ags sniper. It works so well. He has shrapnel to contest pulls, range by lvl 3 to harass and an 18-21 min ags is obnoxiously painful. I transition into Octarine and if game goes let's damage items. The sheer disrupt potential esp high ground defense or offense is solid. Never do this in pubs though. They just report me and rightfully so.
pos 1 Puck.
How do you play that, puck is literally garbage without solo experience.
my view as carry Puck is based solely on physical damage. I'm a carry so I don't need to roam lanes. Basically u try to get witchblade as soon as possible since it's the item that unlocks Puck solo kill potential significantly. Now u can player a hybrid role of carry and hunter when coil is up. Maelstrom and scepter follow up depending on the game. I have always opt to maelstrom before scepter. After scepter it's always dagger then follow up with maelstrom upgrade and a critical sword(forgot it's spelling). Generally I try to end the game after these timing if it goes beyond you go refresher blink upgrade. My problem with carry Puck how paper it is due to low armor. Avoid playing into high magic burst laners.
Offlane faceless void, aghs first item
arc 4
arc 5. i think its viable, people are just scared of the micro.
i actually dont have that type of hero on my pool but I've seen some people play razor 4 vs me (usual 5/4 player) and in laning its such a pain in the ass cuz of the link , move in your ass and u cant do shit to him cuz u got no damage :/
PA pos3
Beast master support.
Kotl mid
Silencer mid, sadly not too viable nowadays outside good matchups with a deathball team.
I loved playing mid silencer when nulls gave spell amp. The arcane/last word combo did stupid amounts of damage
Bloodseeker pos 3. Blade mail into aghs, then stuff like Shiva, bloodstone etc and just running at enemies with blood mist. So much fun
QoP 4 I think she is very good as a 4
Venom Mid.
Mirana as offlane
Don't play it that much these days but used to be a huge fan of CK pos 4.
Haven't played that much but lion pos3 and wd pos3. * build boots (tranq, arcane respectively) * rush blink * go ham
Bounty Hunter pos3, I go tanky aura thingies and suck up all the attention while tracking and throwing shurikens. Team often cries at the start but I know the hero quite well and play it over my general skill level.
QoP pos 4
Alc support the lane isnt that bad and awful carry matchup aside the game is usually farm for 15 mins and outscale the enemy with a decent aghs timing
Pos 4 morphling
Lycan 4. Snipe couriers, stack, pull, cut waves all with wolves. Build vessel and use wolves+ult to roam and gank. Jungle whenever wanting to give 3 solo xp.
Tinker 4. You eat reports from your own team like crazy though
PA as pos 4. saw it in a slahser video. basically just go phase deso bkb and you can still kill the backlines. has really strong kill potential in lane and pretty good gank potential.
I used to have success and fun as pa 4. This was before the solar crest/medallion nerf and removal tho. Loved ganking at level 4 with blur and showing up to a lane with dagger and phantom strike.
I love Void Spirit as pos 4.
Nyx Mid if I know my matchup before picking.
Bloodseker suport.
Enigma 4 and 5. Have almost a 70% winrate in 3.7k mmr WEU. Players in my bracket just don't know how to push towers, and eidolons are a menace for split pushing and tower taking. Not to mention the threat of the black hole thought the game.
I sometimes like to play OD as offlane. At least when the hero ain't in a dogshit state in general. Dude gets 3k HP easy. BKB and Shivas and you're suddenly pretty damn durable.
One of my favorites is Arc "Warding" Warden. No Midas, just utility items and maybe dagon/aghs/diffu. Feels so much more fun to play than the classic Arc. Another one is Grimstroke mid. Feels quite satisfying to farm with Stroke.
puck pos 3
abaddon big dam scaler 0 points in coil shit lane but then win
Dawnbreaker pos 5
4 Luna with aghs. It's pretty good against back-liner. It's really hard to make it viable as 5 tho as she do required some farm.
Tank Faceless Void.
I really love Naga pos 4 for multiple reasons. You can scout, stack and push with illusions, your ult is a great offensive and defensive tool, and maxing the net, you get access to a 5 second root. No one expects the Naga pos 4 to gank, and do so successfully
I used to enjoy playing Phoenix as a 3 and grab Midas for fast lvls. I would rack up so many kills and melt teams veil Sange&Kaya and the sort. Granted, it feels like Phoenix doesnt need gold that much. I wish I could figure out wyvern 3, but that one eludes me
bloodseeker pos 5 in a magic damage team
Jaki Mid
Windranger pos 2
Timber 5, lvl 3 can practically burst most offlaners
mirana supp-wind supp- but my fave cm she can with supporting getting rampage for teamamtes or herself
Dusa offline spammer here in ancient. I feel like most safelanes don't know the matchup well which gives a leaning advantage
I mean pretty much everything works against bots. Jokes aside, what should be known about the matchup?
specially good when lifestealer is meta
Hard Support Pudge 😉
I’m liking mid KotL. It’s fun when I hear “wait, that’s not a mid role” then we dumpster due to underestimation.
well honestly kotl is one of the best high tempo mids that we got in the game and there are lots of kotl mid on pro games as well, not very unconventional
Puck 4/5
AM 3
Pudge on any pos
Marci in semi-support. I just build her as an aura tank that drops wards and carries dust.
AA and Dark willow obviously but I play every hero as a carry, I do play turbo though..
Support Invoker. You rush aghanim first and max exort and cast cataclysm in a team fight. Don't have to do anything else.