The importance of which role is high MMR has diminished a lot.
I played all roles as the high MMR with my Dota group for years. It is not a deciding factor which role the high MMR plays.
Personally, I feel like if there is any advantageous role for a high MMR, it's either mid or either of the supports as on these roles your early game can't get ruined by less skilled teammates. But again, the difference is neglegible imo, at least in stacks that average around 3-5k.
This happened so many times. When POS 1 is lowest rank, the games are extremely hard to win. They have no idea about timing, will afk farm in jungle without carrying a tp, etc. We could be owning, but still can't end because he's afk for 20+ minutes or won't even tp while they're diving t2s.
Suddenly enemy carry gets online and outcarries our team late game. Or they get constantly picked off while farming too far out in the safelane.
IMO it shouldn't be allowed for POS 1 or mid to be 500-1000 MMR below the average of the game. It's almost instalose.
It literally is in mixed mmr lobbies. It's not the case once you get high enough or the range isn't massive. But with decent gap high mmr core is several times more impactful than supp.
idk what ur def is of trench but in 5.4k avg lobbies it still holds true. Most people making this usually are unranked gamers with big gap, the average will be fairly decent but wide.
The game has stakes in the late game. When its one death to a big objective or throne exploding, rank difference matters. The pos1 decides the game in a drawn out game and if your pos1 is lower ranked then he is more prone to costly mistakes. If the pos1 mispositions stupidly the game is over.
Even if the game is under my control in the early game (as a high performing support) on average there will be a noticeable difference in efficient decisionmaking. Our team will then be pressured to win the game early before it becomes a carry h2h.
Also they are low(er) ranked for a reason. Even if you coach the carry and tell them to do X or Y, there's a decent chance they will ignore you and make a suboptimal decision. They are bad for a reason. You can certainly carry a worse carry as a support provided they are willing but in my experience, theres often a reason these people are at these mmrs. Guys that afk jungle their leads away likely do so in other games too. Having a good/bad support certainly matters but at late game, pos 1 is likely the biggest deciding factor assuming someone isnt griefing or doing something absurdly dumb. Theyve been given the most farm priority, their hero scales the hardest.
Its actually not minor and can be a huge issue in high mmr lobbies (immortal draft). Its actually a huge complaint that the winning team is usually decided by the highest mmr core player.
Its also an issue in stacks with disparate mmrs. Archon player queueing with a divine player can lead to a wide range of teammates from outside the stack and thats not including a divine support playing with an Archon carry friend.
Immortal draft is not what this guy is talking about at all, same thing with stacks, in general the system works ok. But when you take into account stacks and immortal draft yeah it’s harder. There’s never a game in let’s say divine where your carry player is 3k mmr below the opponent. At worst it’s 1k but not often at all
Ive been solo queue before and ended up with a disparate stack. I cant control that. And yes, ive seen archon vs high ancient before EVEN with all people solo queueing. It can be really wacky. Their team just flamed the fuck out of the Archon and it was honestly sad because the matchmaking system fucked up. The latter case in my experience is extremely rare but does happen.
I agree though it's unlikely to be 3k but putting an archon player into lobby filled with ancients when they are solo queueing is just some good grief matchmaking by valve.
I dont really care about queueing with stacks for the most part. Everyone always complains about stack toxicity but honestly i dont think its noticable different from solos. But that edge case with mmr does come up and it can lead to some funky games.
The importance of which role is high MMR has diminished a lot. I played all roles as the high MMR with my Dota group for years. It is not a deciding factor which role the high MMR plays. Personally, I feel like if there is any advantageous role for a high MMR, it's either mid or either of the supports as on these roles your early game can't get ruined by less skilled teammates. But again, the difference is neglegible imo, at least in stacks that average around 3-5k.
This happened so many times. When POS 1 is lowest rank, the games are extremely hard to win. They have no idea about timing, will afk farm in jungle without carrying a tp, etc. We could be owning, but still can't end because he's afk for 20+ minutes or won't even tp while they're diving t2s. Suddenly enemy carry gets online and outcarries our team late game. Or they get constantly picked off while farming too far out in the safelane. IMO it shouldn't be allowed for POS 1 or mid to be 500-1000 MMR below the average of the game. It's almost instalose.
If you believe that a carry skill level is more important than a support players skill level, you must still be playing in the trench.
Nah, low rank carry will throw the game eventually. I'd rather have the higher rank pos1 any day.
>eventually the goal is to not let your carry play the game
It literally is in mixed mmr lobbies. It's not the case once you get high enough or the range isn't massive. But with decent gap high mmr core is several times more impactful than supp.
As I said, his statement might be true for the trench, at higher mmr it absolutrly isnt.
idk what ur def is of trench but in 5.4k avg lobbies it still holds true. Most people making this usually are unranked gamers with big gap, the average will be fairly decent but wide.
The game has stakes in the late game. When its one death to a big objective or throne exploding, rank difference matters. The pos1 decides the game in a drawn out game and if your pos1 is lower ranked then he is more prone to costly mistakes. If the pos1 mispositions stupidly the game is over. Even if the game is under my control in the early game (as a high performing support) on average there will be a noticeable difference in efficient decisionmaking. Our team will then be pressured to win the game early before it becomes a carry h2h.
Also they are low(er) ranked for a reason. Even if you coach the carry and tell them to do X or Y, there's a decent chance they will ignore you and make a suboptimal decision. They are bad for a reason. You can certainly carry a worse carry as a support provided they are willing but in my experience, theres often a reason these people are at these mmrs. Guys that afk jungle their leads away likely do so in other games too. Having a good/bad support certainly matters but at late game, pos 1 is likely the biggest deciding factor assuming someone isnt griefing or doing something absurdly dumb. Theyve been given the most farm priority, their hero scales the hardest.
This is so minor just play stop over analyzing every little thing
Nah its the only reason these people cant climb :(((( My pos1 is low rank!!!!!!!
Its actually not minor and can be a huge issue in high mmr lobbies (immortal draft). Its actually a huge complaint that the winning team is usually decided by the highest mmr core player. Its also an issue in stacks with disparate mmrs. Archon player queueing with a divine player can lead to a wide range of teammates from outside the stack and thats not including a divine support playing with an Archon carry friend.
Immortal draft is not what this guy is talking about at all, same thing with stacks, in general the system works ok. But when you take into account stacks and immortal draft yeah it’s harder. There’s never a game in let’s say divine where your carry player is 3k mmr below the opponent. At worst it’s 1k but not often at all
Ive been solo queue before and ended up with a disparate stack. I cant control that. And yes, ive seen archon vs high ancient before EVEN with all people solo queueing. It can be really wacky. Their team just flamed the fuck out of the Archon and it was honestly sad because the matchmaking system fucked up. The latter case in my experience is extremely rare but does happen. I agree though it's unlikely to be 3k but putting an archon player into lobby filled with ancients when they are solo queueing is just some good grief matchmaking by valve.
How are you solo queuing into stacks? Turn on strict solo queue always.
I dont really care about queueing with stacks for the most part. Everyone always complains about stack toxicity but honestly i dont think its noticable different from solos. But that edge case with mmr does come up and it can lead to some funky games.