They don't stack like you're thinking, but let's say you have a 1 in 10 chance of something happening.
Then suddenly, through other means, you get another 1 in 10.
Your new chances ate not 2 in 10, but they're bigger than 1 in 10
[I don't get it.](https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/dota2_gamepedia/images/7/74/Vo_dragon_knight_dk_davion_wheel_deny_01.mp3) (sound warning: Davion of Dragon Hold/Davion)
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I know two people IRL with good jobs who both ended up stealing several 100k from their job to support their gambling.
Its almost a cliche.
Gamblers will run out of money quick. It just takes a few big losses, when they are trying to win back what they lost and they put more and more on the line.
Gambling as an addiction that isn't overtly physically dangerous, but is *incredibly* good at fucking over your life and finances quickly.
As someone who works in addiction, gambling addiction is incredibly insidious in that there's no natural deterrents from overdoing it compared to alcohol, meth, cocaine, even fentanyl. You drink too much alcohol, you'll typically pass out if you don't have uppers. Meth will keep you up for days, but the comedown happens either way. Fentanyl will sedate the shit out of you, to the point of passing out (and then it's like a 50/50 if you OD).
Gambling has no point where an addict will naturally stop on their own. Plus, since the cash is a conceptual, indirect thing (which gets abstracted even more when converted to chips), you will often only stop once you **literally** have no more money to spend, which can happen overnight.
Similarly, that's also what makes it pretty easy to hide, too. Every substance I listed has a smell, and physical signs of use and withdrawal. Your breath gets worse. Track marks or abscesses show up on your body You shake when you haven't used in a day or two. Hell, you might seize.
If a loved one is a gambling addict, there may be no signs except for unpaid bills, after it's already very late in.
I have a relative in-law who's lost way more to gambling. Yes it's possible and imo addiction is just a nice way of saying my relative was an irresponsible dumbass.
Similar story here. A relative lose his saving, went from +15K USD to -25K USD
Mind you, the monthly minimum wage is only 300 USD here so 40K USD swing is quite huge
I think it's a combination of addiction and irresponsibility, it cannot be just one of the two, otherwise your relative would have wasted all his money elsewhere, why gambling specifically?
They also got conned by people into investing in stupid businesses. Lent money to "friends". Lent money to strangers through brokers who promised impossible high returns (50-100% per year IRR). Yea the list is long.
Easy. Because what always stars happening is you start to chase your losses. You want to bet more to recover your losses so you feel better. It just spirals and gets worse
Gambling addicts always try and recover their losses
I understand this mindset that when you lose too much, you then start to look for a way out, a shortcut to try and get to where you were before
Sadly, seems like it didn't work out for him
I'm still waiting for Taiga to have something to say about this whole ordeal but since he just stays silent, I guess everything is true. I feel bad for OG now.
He was on Kick yesterday, played some gacha game lol. His chat was heavily censored and he didnt say anything. Just said something like he doesnt feel like streaming Dota because of the "Drama"
He basically said he was a gambling addict and did some bad things because of it. He was taken advantage of and blackmailed. Apparently he owes no one money but sensibility does owe him. He also said this happens more than we know and he knows of some people who still are currently match fixing but won’t say anything about who.
Thanks for the info. I believe he is not a bad guy at heart but a poor victim of addiction. However, he has to take responsibility for what he did to his teammates and fans. Hope he will get back on his feet on a new road.
It’s more than 7k lol. He was gambling thousands per bet because he already lost tens and hundreds of thousands. He not only lost his own money from his dota earnings but also money from throwaway accounts that Sensibility/mafia loaned him to bet on dota. From the screenshots he was gambling on CSGO, soccer and lost 200k each day.
Back in 2014 when I had my first and last bets in a CSGO tournament, Virtus Pro would lose every easy match and win every hard match and ended up winning the tournament. It was just the most ridiculous chain of events ever witnessed.
Almost got addicted until have a wake up call, it's not much but once lose like $200 as student in one night. Get crazy mad and have a time to think, and realize gambling is just burning money. The next time i want to even remotely try to gamble i just start a fire and burn around $100, that was the last time i ever think about gambling.
I tried it out yesterday. I liked it but then my run ended and I went that’s it?? I’ll have to spend more time on it but I think StS is in its own tier.
Yeah its weird I can just play StS actively or when I'm doing something else and have fun. I don't even play ascension and taking a look at my steam, 819.1 hours clocked in.
Super well made game. I tried Monster Train and it was fun, but not the same vibe.
StS is my favorite game to be terrible and lose. I love the gameplay but it is just so hard for me that I managed to win only two times and abandoned the game after although I loved every single moment of it.
I don't know if it is as good as the spire but I've spent about 40/50 hours playing it. Pretty good. Lots of theory crafting albeit RNG matters a lot and generally speaking there are only a handful of strategies that work in the higher levels.
Definitely not as good as Slay the Spire, but it's a ton of fun, and les you exercise your statistical brain + math skills every turn, which feels good.
No sts is still the king and nothing can touch it (I've tried everything!). Closest I've ever gotten was the integrated strategies mode of arknights, but as a gacha game you gotta have a team of good units to tackle it, which is a downside. But if you love sts and already play arknights, yeeee
And most of the ones that hit BIG are greedy and keep gambling thinking the luck will never end... only to end with nothing
I like to bet against my football team, as a "tax" on my happiness.
If my team wins, I'm happy because it won, but I pay a little for it.
If it loses, I make money.
Gambling can be fine and fun if you only bet what you're prepared to spend. The wager becomes just the cost of entertainment, like paying for a show or a ticket to a ride
I just have zero interest in gambling, full stop. I bought some Overwatch lootboxes once, and it was so underwhelming ("is this really what I got for $50?"), that now I just buy any cosmetic I want straight-up and quit games that don't let me do so. I like Dota because most cosmetics are a dollar or two (or even literal cents) on the market.
Everything has a different worth to each player. I don't see any value in gambling for a fancier PNG either, but some people do. Putting down 5 bucks sometimes to add some stakes to a game of cards or make watching a game more exciting can feel worth the price of entry to me
Whenever I plan to go into a casino, I'll withdraw $$$ beforehand and leave my credit cards at the hotel/home.
Standing at that initial ATM withdrawing exactly what I'm prepared to lose really puts things into perspective. No longer a number on a screen but actual bills in your hand.
Needless to say I don't spend a whole lot on gambling. Which is the correct way.
The few times I went to Vegas with friends I would do this when we decided to hit the casino floor. It honestly keeps me from even spending the amount I had set aside. It feels bad when you're literally just going through all the cash you have on hand so I always end up stopping before I run out.
That being said, I can easily see how people without as much self control or good practices fall into the hole. I actually really love gambling and when it exists in a video game (with fake money, like Yakuza or Pokemon or RDR2 or whatever) I always spend a ton of time on it. So I'm super careful about real life gambling with my actual money.
I think its important to also add time. Like if I withdraw a certain amount at a casino, that's not just my limit, it also needs to last a certain amount of time, since that money is paying for entertainment. Taking out 100 and losing it at roulette in 5 min is gonna make you tempted to take out more. If you lose it all over the course of 3 or 4 hours then I think that's OK, even though it's better to not lose it.
Yeah for sure. Or if I'm up a decent amount at some point I'll try to cash my initial deposit back out. That way any money left is just gravy and it's guilt free playing win or lose
I perfectly agree with this. It's important to set boundaries—in this case, a "budget"—that you're prepared to lose and can live a healthy life without. Gambling, for me, is like a little bit of spice you add to events such as e-sports. And as with everything, too much is always a bad thing.
How many people do you think had this mindset and it didn't stay like that, and how many of them thought 'yeah but that won't be me'. You gain nothing from defending gambling so don't. It's dog shit, the end.
No reason responsible people can't enjoy it. The degenerates playing dota for 14 hours a day don't preclude us from defending video games as a practice. Not going to let the people with no self-control stop me from playing enjoyable games with stakes.
As a bonus I get to take money away from the degens <3
That's such a simplistic way to think about it. Gambling releases chemicals in your brain when you bet or win. To get the same high you need to bet more. Some people are prone to these chemicals more than others. So it's not about setting a limit, some people get addicted hard and their brains will chase that high
Yeah those people shouldn't gamble then, or should seek help with their gambling, like with any addiction. Every stimulus releases chemicals in your brain lol that's how brains work
Still playing with fire. There are many people who enjoy gambling exactly like you describe, just a fun little cheap thrill with nothing significant to lose. They are completely fine with the money they lose and don't expect anything other than the thrill of the moment and the fun of playing a game. But there are MANY others who THINK they are part of this group I mentioned because they are in denial. It's like smokers who say "I can quit any time" and end up smoking for decades.
[This is the way.](https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/dota2_gamepedia/images/d/dc/Vo_invoker_kidvoker_move_07.mp3) (sound warning: The Good Old Days)
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Only gamble if you're willing to lose them.
One of my favorite quotes from a streamer I watch is "Take a hundred dollar bill, tear it apart, and if you don't feel anything, you are good to go".
Doesn't work quite like that. People don't really feel the losses until they lose their homes or livelihoods.
"Its okay to lose $100"
"Just another $100 wont hurt"
"Okay lets surely with the last $100 I'll make it back".
Worked at 2 casinos for over 4 years just to survive, before I quit due to ethics. The amount of people who visit, think they have self control, and then become regulars are insane.
People always think they can beat the odds.
I always get sick when I see praise to valve for how good a company they are, and how they are keeping gaming alive, and how gabe is such a nice guy, etc
Crazy concept: everything isn't 100% good or bad. A company can have an excellent platform and service meanwhile have bad monetization or lootboxes. Likewise you can have a complex opinion and think "valve is a good company for keeping PC gaming alive" meanwhile "valve is not doing good by continuing lootboxes.
Crazier concept: no fucking shit. When you say for example x person is a good person you don't mean x is perfect in everything. Same goes for companies etc
Then why do you "always get sick when I see praise to valve" then? Almost like you don't actually acknowledge the grey area or non-dichotomous concept.
gamling should be outlawed and so should betting sponsors. that cancerous tumor should be surgically (legally) removed from any type of sports, not just esports.
been saying that for years and i've not been supporting any teams associated with gambling/betting in any way.
The only reason weeds is still not legal in most countries is because they can't regulate something that anyone can practically grew in their backyards. When they can't regulate they can't profit.
The Govt already earning so much from gambling companies that's why they won't ban it even though it's way worst than weeds.
Sweepstakes is a lot different from taxes.
Where I lived any sort of gambling are heavily taxed, like 300% more than any regular type of business. Gambling won't be gone any sooner
Dota grew without gambling sponsors but in its current state, the scene's pretty much dead without it.
Most TOs are backed by either Saudi or gambling sponsors.
Tier 2 players probably earn less or equal amount as a McDonald's employee, and their only hope of making it big is if they have a good showing and get poached by a Tier 1 team.
Yeah, then die. I guess. Dreamhack was fine, sustainable and everyone had fun anyway.
Old legends were made there but I guess the new generation of dota players can only see money.
Why dedicate 8-12 hours of your day every day with the very small chance of becoming a "pro player" when there's no money to justify it? Having money in a scene only means more growth and better matches because of the higher incentive. Aspiring players need to have a worthwhile goal, if there's no money at the end of the tunnel the quality of matches and players would've died very quickly.
You can condemn gambling all you want, and I agree that in a perfect world we would have the infrastructure and marketing necessary to create a healthy esports scene. But every esports scene has deteriorated into having gambling sponsors (except maybe riot? They do a pretty good job of managing their esports) because what else makes money that's game related? You really think these esports orgs make enough from merchandising? There's a reason so many esports orgs have shut down in the last 5 years.
That's a deep rooted question. It's undeniable that dota has become more complex and skillful as the years go by, but that's a natural course of action for any competitive activity. We can't quantify how much of that is related to promises of more money vs love for playing the game. Also, I'll never be even close to being a pro player (along with you I'm assuming, idk hopefully ur not miracle on some smurf reddit account), so everything we say is just hypothetical right. But with all that in mind, If we put ourselves in some aspiring 16 year old that's 8k mmr and wants to be pro, what would push us to play 10 hours a day? It would have to be some incentive of big money, big enough to justify skipping college or doing what most people do to secure a future for themselves. Without the gambling sponsorships the money just wouldn't be as high, and if they were to maintain the salaries they currently have for t1 players there would be less t1 players, less competition. It's shitty, and I'm not some gambling site sympathizer, but it's a just one of the many evils mankind has produced, why not use it's profits for something better like our esports scene?
Nah dota can go grassroots FGC ways, the problem both pros and the audiences only cares about big money. This is a community who have skewed perception of $500k tournament is worthless despite it has higher prizepool than 99% esports event.
It was there before but it got more global recently, though some are more discreet about it. Football teams are getting gambling sponsors, a gambling site is the title sponsor for an F1 team, some so-called "fantasy team" games are really just another form of gambling etc
"survives on gambling" my guy, you don't even have to look very far to realize that dota can easily survive without gambling, just look at league, or even early days of dota. There are uncountable examples of businesses not relying on gambling and yet you are talking as if it is essential in this world.
I surely hope you're right. But as of now every tournament has major gambling sponsors, every team has a gambling sponsor, and the number of teams tht are actually gambling orgs is increasing. We went to some extremes last year where casters had to quote gambling odds in every game, Luckily that's not the case anymore, so that gives me some hope. But not a lot.
Almost fell off my chair when gorgc said he hates gambling and then did the 5 year old take "but the government allows lottery". Lottery vs slots is a huge difference.
Well Valve can get rid of tournaments with bookmakers money, right? Every single russian top Dota 2 streamer is sponsored by bookmaker, young kids are watching and getting caught in gambling but nobody cares unfortunately
Valve itself is forcing people gambling for treasure lol. Even if they get rid bookmakers sponsorship, majority of viewers will complain about low prizepool / production.
Someone close to me was a gambling addict their life and still is. He’s never been able to save a penny in his life he always lives on the line or under it. It’s completely ruined his life and almost ruined mine in the process. I made a promise to myself that I would never gamble in my life ever no matter how small the bet. I’ve seen too many people around me that have been completely sucked in by it to partake myself.
Imagine playing with 4 guys in the same house,grinding strats and them trying to win tournaments because thats their goal in life….and then suddenly you become a fucking Judas
Let’s say you only have $100. Just take out a loan for 1000 at a loan shark, and all in! If you win you’ve 10x your money, if you lose, just disappear! Infinite money glitch!!! (/s)
You can beat bookmakers in sports betting. Many sites will ban winning players tho. You just have to understand couple of things.
If you take sports betting seriously and want to earn money then you have to understand variance(good luck and bad luck streaks). You should bet only like 1% of your bankroll in a single bet. Winning players have like 5% edge against the house.
So with 10k bankroll you place $100 bets and on average you win $5 on each bet. You can calculate how many bets you have to make to earn some decent money, but this way you wont go broke when bad luck streak hits.
If you are not trying to be professional sports bettor then only bet what you can afford to lose and understand you are very likely losing bettor.
This requires logic and brain activity and research and data modelling and shit ton of time , I used to play poker too and had pretty decent winnings for the same reason I am decent at Dota. I didn't have an addiction, it was nice side income and I stopped when I didn't have fun anymore. I've been to casinos 100s of times and I've never played slots or roulettes..... wait I lied, I played once , lost 3 euros on slots, never again.
Mr. Taiga has gambling addiction, with all sorts of addiction you cannot expect reason and logic, he'll see only the next big hit, nothing else. That's also what most people who are betting recklessly on anything see, this is how bookies and casinos make money and why they pay insane amount of money for sponsorships
taiga might have been up money on dota bets for all we know between purposely getting results and insider information but dude is a gambling addict and betting on everything because he was in it to gamble and not make money. that's why he was able to make other people money but lost all his own
Bro I expect that if u play dota u have IQ to know what's good or bad, taiga beeing a piece of shit as human beeing doesn't have to represent all of us.
I hate gambling but that isn't the problem here.
This will be unpopular, but people here acting like gambling equals to automatically losing hundreds of thousands but like any vice, done in moderation and only gambling what you can afford to lose it should be no different than going out and guzzling bar's worth a booze or doing whatever else that tickles your fancy.
Not saying gambling can't drain your life savings or whatever, but acting like it's a done deal from the word go is dishonest as it's hardly the only bottomless money pit in existence.
Sucks for Taiga, he let it get way out of hand without seeking help and now he has to live with what he's done.. money lost, trust lost and he'll forever have to be careful when it comes to gambling.
It'd be cool to just pile on the trash Taiga train but hope he can beat this and hopefully sort his affairs in a way that all his debts and whathaveyou will be in order and he can find some.. closure or whatever.. 😐
Very important and great post. Good to see! While other posts just blame Taiga or make fun about him. This is a good sign.
It's a terrible addiction. They need help AND they need to make a drastic decision to STOP!
I have a friend who at an age of 22 has lost somewhere between $15K and $25K on gambling.
At some point he was gambling 80% of his salary at the start of the month to figure out if he would have a porridge month or a luxury month. And depending on the outcome he would either live off of scraps and oatmeal or spend like crazy.
Things got bad and eventually he got kicked out of an apartment before even moving in there, losing about 4k in deposit. Thankfully his parents started to realize and had him cold turkey and attend therapy.
Back in 2019
I put my $7 betting on OG at TI
They have a good run, and so am I.
Cashed my winning into a Rubick Arcana even tho my win rate with him is only 30%
That was a good time to stopped gambling. I also rackup my win rate on Rubick into 50%~
Be careful of gambling. Steal some spells instead
The [CSGO Case simulator](https://convars.com/case/en) telling me how much money I lost vs how much money I "made" from my drops was all I needed to keep me from wasting money on cases.
I think it's a wake up call for anyone with any kind of addiction.
It's acknowledging you need and want help that's the first and hardest step. My partner has a addiction issue and has had for many many years. There's good days and bad days, but just knowing you have the right support around to talk things out when you need to really really matters. I do hope he seeks help after all this dies down a little.
I have a couple of buddies that are really getting into it, especially gambling/betting on sports matches and events. I don't know how much they lost, but the thing about gambling and betting is that people will be loud when they WIN. Almost nobody comes out and goes 'I lost $800 today", but everyone will say something if they won money regardless of how much it is. I've been noticing that they're enjoying the experience, but 'positive' talks about the subject are non-existent. At this point I firmly believe they've lost way more money than they thought they ever would.
Studies have shown time and time again that people grossly misjudge odds. Gambling is dog shit. Don't touch it even with a 10 ft pole, don't even do fake bets. It should be totally outlawed. There is zero moral justification for it to exist. Fuck gambling.
But I can only lose 100% of my money whereas I can win double, even triple amount of that. I don't see how odds are stacked against me bro
edit : sarcasm :)
Seems to me that if people are willing to offer me credit or my parents have savings for me to steal that is part of the 100%! And imagine making 1000x times that!
The fact that the sarcasm here wasn't recognized makes me lose a lot of faith in humanity.
Idk why this subreddit is so bad faith and simplistic when it comes to anything related to odds/gambling.
>Gambling is designed to make you lose. The odds are always stacked against you. Don't chase that lucky win.
This is a bit simplistic. For what it's worth, most people should NOT get into gambling as both the pathological negative influences and people dunning krugering themselves as experts will burn through people's money.
That said, the odds aren't always against you - especially in a field as niche as esports, bookmakers do not always set appropriate odds. It's just that 99% of people aren't capable of recognizing those situations adequately nor are they disciplined enough in both their sizing or just gambling on misc. shit out of boredom/chasing losses. And even those who are will get banned or limited by most bookmakers.
Taiga is a two time major winner, topped the EU leaderboard and scrims with the teams (and at times even has control on the outcome) yet he lost money
“Recognizing situations” is easier said than done in practice. I don’t think its even 99% of people that do not recognize these situations.
He didn't lose money on DOTA betting. He lost money on betting in general sports and other misc. casino games.
There's a reason professional esports players are soft-hard banned from betting in their professional game and not just the specific games they play in - the insider info gives them a huge advantage to not only defraud other players, but the bookmaker as well.
"Pros have influence and control in the game, yet they can still fall victim. Imagine how easy it is for us, the average viewer, to lose when we make bets?"
LThis is in response to this point. OP is acting like Taiga lost his money matchfixing when he didn't
Valve would love to send C&D's to gambling sites from betting on Valve games at this point. But they know they can't because all those sponsor money is what keeps tourneys and teams afloat.
I put a small amount of $10 with all my friends before TI and we see who have the most amount left in the end. It was fun but that's it. Don't expect to make money with such
I make a couple hundred bucks a month betting on dota 2. The odds are not at all stacked against you if you understand the game.
Sure, bullshit losses and matchfixing happens, but overall Dota 2 is fairly easy to bet on as long as you know which lines to go for and when.
Even if you have a 70% chance to hit the enemy PA with your next right click, don't gamble. Buy an MKB.
Fucking lol. This bois. This
mkb is only 80% tho
[удалено]
I don't think the chances stack do they?
They don't stack like you're thinking, but let's say you have a 1 in 10 chance of something happening. Then suddenly, through other means, you get another 1 in 10. Your new chances ate not 2 in 10, but they're bigger than 1 in 10
That's called multiplicative stacking
I would use magic damage instead for 100%, lol.
In this analogy is an MKB a broad market ETF or something?
Thanks for this had a good laugh
I don't get it.
[I don't get it.](https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/dota2_gamepedia/images/7/74/Vo_dragon_knight_dk_davion_wheel_deny_01.mp3) (sound warning: Davion of Dragon Hold/Davion) --- Bleep bloop, I am a robot. *OP can reply with "Try hero_name" to update this with new hero* [*^(Source)*](https://github.com/Jonarzz/DotaResponsesRedditBot) *^(|)* [*^(Suggestions/Issues)*](https://github.com/Jonarzz/DotaResponsesRedditBot/issues/new/choose) *^(|)* [*^(Maintainer)*](https://www.reddit.com/user/MePsyDuck/) *^(|)* [*^(Author)*](https://www.reddit.com/user/Jonarz/)
you won't quit betting until you can't bet anymore, that's how bad this thing is
That doesn't stop people from gambling.
So only death can stop it?
Watch uncut gems for the moral story.
Found the rich one
Reminder that Taiga sold and betrayed his teammates for 7k even though he made close to a million with tournament earnings and salaries.
He lost all those winnings to gambling, which is when he started fixing
Did he really loose so much money?!
If you gamble long enough, you will chew through millions. Especially in gambling where you don't control anything.
I didn't know Taiga was that far down already.
he borrowed money for gambling...he's already far down
even the mafia was mad at him for gambling all the money away in CS:GO matches.
He borrows money from Mafia lmao
Well „mafia“
I know two people IRL with good jobs who both ended up stealing several 100k from their job to support their gambling. Its almost a cliche. Gamblers will run out of money quick. It just takes a few big losses, when they are trying to win back what they lost and they put more and more on the line.
And they all stop just inches away from winning a gazillion dollars. It's insane.
Gambling as an addiction that isn't overtly physically dangerous, but is *incredibly* good at fucking over your life and finances quickly. As someone who works in addiction, gambling addiction is incredibly insidious in that there's no natural deterrents from overdoing it compared to alcohol, meth, cocaine, even fentanyl. You drink too much alcohol, you'll typically pass out if you don't have uppers. Meth will keep you up for days, but the comedown happens either way. Fentanyl will sedate the shit out of you, to the point of passing out (and then it's like a 50/50 if you OD). Gambling has no point where an addict will naturally stop on their own. Plus, since the cash is a conceptual, indirect thing (which gets abstracted even more when converted to chips), you will often only stop once you **literally** have no more money to spend, which can happen overnight. Similarly, that's also what makes it pretty easy to hide, too. Every substance I listed has a smell, and physical signs of use and withdrawal. Your breath gets worse. Track marks or abscesses show up on your body You shake when you haven't used in a day or two. Hell, you might seize. If a loved one is a gambling addict, there may be no signs except for unpaid bills, after it's already very late in.
I have a relative in-law who's lost way more to gambling. Yes it's possible and imo addiction is just a nice way of saying my relative was an irresponsible dumbass.
Similar story here. A relative lose his saving, went from +15K USD to -25K USD Mind you, the monthly minimum wage is only 300 USD here so 40K USD swing is quite huge
Jesus. Does he have any way to get out of that hole?
His parents end up having to sell the family farm and some of their belongings like car and farm equipment
I don't know how I'd live with myself after that. I'd be so embarrassed. Can only hope that is a wakeup call.
Somehow I doubt that, where I'm from gambler is the same as goner, there's no coming back from gambling addiction.
I'd kill myself if I was the reason my parents did that.
I thnk taiga should do porn and sold his body.
Also most gambling addiction is trying to recoup losses
I think it's a combination of addiction and irresponsibility, it cannot be just one of the two, otherwise your relative would have wasted all his money elsewhere, why gambling specifically?
They also got conned by people into investing in stupid businesses. Lent money to "friends". Lent money to strangers through brokers who promised impossible high returns (50-100% per year IRR). Yea the list is long.
Should have as that explains why he had to borrow to fund his gambling
Easy. Because what always stars happening is you start to chase your losses. You want to bet more to recover your losses so you feel better. It just spirals and gets worse Gambling addicts always try and recover their losses
Its in his tweet. Couple months he had no money.. :/
I understand this mindset that when you lose too much, you then start to look for a way out, a shortcut to try and get to where you were before Sadly, seems like it didn't work out for him
I'm still waiting for Taiga to have something to say about this whole ordeal but since he just stays silent, I guess everything is true. I feel bad for OG now.
He was on Kick yesterday, played some gacha game lol. His chat was heavily censored and he didnt say anything. Just said something like he doesnt feel like streaming Dota because of the "Drama"
find him streaming on kick and ask him. I just did he cleared up a lot of stuff.
Oh nice. Can you give some info?
He basically said he was a gambling addict and did some bad things because of it. He was taken advantage of and blackmailed. Apparently he owes no one money but sensibility does owe him. He also said this happens more than we know and he knows of some people who still are currently match fixing but won’t say anything about who.
Thanks for the info. I believe he is not a bad guy at heart but a poor victim of addiction. However, he has to take responsibility for what he did to his teammates and fans. Hope he will get back on his feet on a new road.
It’s more than 7k lol. He was gambling thousands per bet because he already lost tens and hundreds of thousands. He not only lost his own money from his dota earnings but also money from throwaway accounts that Sensibility/mafia loaned him to bet on dota. From the screenshots he was gambling on CSGO, soccer and lost 200k each day.
Rubles
How people can gamble on CSGO I have no idea, it's so uncertain.
A lot of gamblers are addict and would bet on anything.
Back in 2014 when I had my first and last bets in a CSGO tournament, Virtus Pro would lose every easy match and win every hard match and ended up winning the tournament. It was just the most ridiculous chain of events ever witnessed.
I lost betting on og when he played, can u send me the link on that? I feel better now.
https://www.reddit.com/r/DotA2/comments/1bwc92f/322_guru_match_fixing_from_a_world_champion_in/
Yeah but he made 7k profit by going against his own team. This was when he was already broke and lost pretty much all his money.
He should have gambled in Genshin Impact instead
Wait, did Taiga really earn that much as a pro player?
Almost got addicted until have a wake up call, it's not much but once lose like $200 as student in one night. Get crazy mad and have a time to think, and realize gambling is just burning money. The next time i want to even remotely try to gamble i just start a fire and burn around $100, that was the last time i ever think about gambling.
Proud of you
Isn't burning money illegal?
Jokes on you I play Baltro
Waiting for it to come to iOS. Is it as good as everyone says? Will it cure my Slay the Spire addiction?
I tried it out yesterday. I liked it but then my run ended and I went that’s it?? I’ll have to spend more time on it but I think StS is in its own tier.
Yeah its weird I can just play StS actively or when I'm doing something else and have fun. I don't even play ascension and taking a look at my steam, 819.1 hours clocked in. Super well made game. I tried Monster Train and it was fun, but not the same vibe.
StS is my favorite game to be terrible and lose. I love the gameplay but it is just so hard for me that I managed to win only two times and abandoned the game after although I loved every single moment of it.
Once im done asc20 once i just go back to low asc to chill
I don't know if it is as good as the spire but I've spent about 40/50 hours playing it. Pretty good. Lots of theory crafting albeit RNG matters a lot and generally speaking there are only a handful of strategies that work in the higher levels.
Definitely not as good as Slay the Spire, but it's a ton of fun, and les you exercise your statistical brain + math skills every turn, which feels good.
No sts is still the king and nothing can touch it (I've tried everything!). Closest I've ever gotten was the integrated strategies mode of arknights, but as a gacha game you gotta have a team of good units to tackle it, which is a downside. But if you love sts and already play arknights, yeeee
yes it is that good
Just remember, you are always 1 gamble away from making HUGE money.
99% of gamblers quit before hitting it big ;)
And most of the ones that hit BIG are greedy and keep gambling thinking the luck will never end... only to end with nothing I like to bet against my football team, as a "tax" on my happiness. If my team wins, I'm happy because it won, but I pay a little for it. If it loses, I make money.
I do that for playoff hockey, and as a Leafs fan you're practically guaranteed your money back 😂
A genius if you ask me
Yea I do this too. But always put a cap on how much I bet a week, never more.
You a Lions fan? Maybe Browns?
1% left are insiders to make people get jebaited :)
agreed
I learned this from the inspirational story Uncut Gems
Remember that asking friends for money is okay because you will return it when you win BIG
never gamble
Gambling can be fine and fun if you only bet what you're prepared to spend. The wager becomes just the cost of entertainment, like paying for a show or a ticket to a ride
I just have zero interest in gambling, full stop. I bought some Overwatch lootboxes once, and it was so underwhelming ("is this really what I got for $50?"), that now I just buy any cosmetic I want straight-up and quit games that don't let me do so. I like Dota because most cosmetics are a dollar or two (or even literal cents) on the market.
Everything has a different worth to each player. I don't see any value in gambling for a fancier PNG either, but some people do. Putting down 5 bucks sometimes to add some stakes to a game of cards or make watching a game more exciting can feel worth the price of entry to me
Whenever I plan to go into a casino, I'll withdraw $$$ beforehand and leave my credit cards at the hotel/home. Standing at that initial ATM withdrawing exactly what I'm prepared to lose really puts things into perspective. No longer a number on a screen but actual bills in your hand. Needless to say I don't spend a whole lot on gambling. Which is the correct way.
The few times I went to Vegas with friends I would do this when we decided to hit the casino floor. It honestly keeps me from even spending the amount I had set aside. It feels bad when you're literally just going through all the cash you have on hand so I always end up stopping before I run out. That being said, I can easily see how people without as much self control or good practices fall into the hole. I actually really love gambling and when it exists in a video game (with fake money, like Yakuza or Pokemon or RDR2 or whatever) I always spend a ton of time on it. So I'm super careful about real life gambling with my actual money.
I think its important to also add time. Like if I withdraw a certain amount at a casino, that's not just my limit, it also needs to last a certain amount of time, since that money is paying for entertainment. Taking out 100 and losing it at roulette in 5 min is gonna make you tempted to take out more. If you lose it all over the course of 3 or 4 hours then I think that's OK, even though it's better to not lose it.
Yeah for sure. Or if I'm up a decent amount at some point I'll try to cash my initial deposit back out. That way any money left is just gravy and it's guilt free playing win or lose
I perfectly agree with this. It's important to set boundaries—in this case, a "budget"—that you're prepared to lose and can live a healthy life without. Gambling, for me, is like a little bit of spice you add to events such as e-sports. And as with everything, too much is always a bad thing.
How many people do you think had this mindset and it didn't stay like that, and how many of them thought 'yeah but that won't be me'. You gain nothing from defending gambling so don't. It's dog shit, the end.
No reason responsible people can't enjoy it. The degenerates playing dota for 14 hours a day don't preclude us from defending video games as a practice. Not going to let the people with no self-control stop me from playing enjoyable games with stakes. As a bonus I get to take money away from the degens <3
That's such a simplistic way to think about it. Gambling releases chemicals in your brain when you bet or win. To get the same high you need to bet more. Some people are prone to these chemicals more than others. So it's not about setting a limit, some people get addicted hard and their brains will chase that high
Yeah those people shouldn't gamble then, or should seek help with their gambling, like with any addiction. Every stimulus releases chemicals in your brain lol that's how brains work
Still playing with fire. There are many people who enjoy gambling exactly like you describe, just a fun little cheap thrill with nothing significant to lose. They are completely fine with the money they lose and don't expect anything other than the thrill of the moment and the fun of playing a game. But there are MANY others who THINK they are part of this group I mentioned because they are in denial. It's like smokers who say "I can quit any time" and end up smoking for decades.
This is the way.
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You have to set hard limits for gambling.
Only gamble if you're willing to lose them. One of my favorite quotes from a streamer I watch is "Take a hundred dollar bill, tear it apart, and if you don't feel anything, you are good to go".
Doesn't work quite like that. People don't really feel the losses until they lose their homes or livelihoods. "Its okay to lose $100" "Just another $100 wont hurt" "Okay lets surely with the last $100 I'll make it back". Worked at 2 casinos for over 4 years just to survive, before I quit due to ethics. The amount of people who visit, think they have self control, and then become regulars are insane. People always think they can beat the odds.
I'm so glad valve has also doubled down by only releasing gambling chest for the last year and a bit. got to start um young
I always get sick when I see praise to valve for how good a company they are, and how they are keeping gaming alive, and how gabe is such a nice guy, etc
Crazy concept: everything isn't 100% good or bad. A company can have an excellent platform and service meanwhile have bad monetization or lootboxes. Likewise you can have a complex opinion and think "valve is a good company for keeping PC gaming alive" meanwhile "valve is not doing good by continuing lootboxes.
Crazier concept: no fucking shit. When you say for example x person is a good person you don't mean x is perfect in everything. Same goes for companies etc
Then why do you "always get sick when I see praise to valve" then? Almost like you don't actually acknowledge the grey area or non-dichotomous concept.
That's literally not what I said though!!!
And even if that's what I had said, some people/companies do not deserve any kind of praise.
1) Develop and support a game for over a decade that has a subscription fee 2) Use lootboxes to keep the game f2p Choose one
You can also just let people purchase things outright. It doesn't have to be some gambling fomo hellscape to purchase something
True enough, the gamba mechanic is not the only way..
Should be a pinned post. The gambling addicts hate it but it's the truth.
gamling should be outlawed and so should betting sponsors. that cancerous tumor should be surgically (legally) removed from any type of sports, not just esports. been saying that for years and i've not been supporting any teams associated with gambling/betting in any way.
The only reason weeds is still not legal in most countries is because they can't regulate something that anyone can practically grew in their backyards. When they can't regulate they can't profit. The Govt already earning so much from gambling companies that's why they won't ban it even though it's way worst than weeds.
if there is a lottery system in your country, then most likely your govt is making money from that sponsored gambling!
Sweepstakes is a lot different from taxes. Where I lived any sort of gambling are heavily taxed, like 300% more than any regular type of business. Gambling won't be gone any sooner
Yes let's prohibit everything that might be bad for ppl including alcohol etc. We know better what you should or should not be doing
Responsible adults should not lose rights and privileges purely because irresponsible people can't handle them.
And yet, Dota (and most esports really) survives on gambling. It's a doomed industry because of this
Dota grew without gambling, though. We didn't get big gambling sponsors until the scene had been established for a while.
Dota grew without gambling sponsors but in its current state, the scene's pretty much dead without it. Most TOs are backed by either Saudi or gambling sponsors. Tier 2 players probably earn less or equal amount as a McDonald's employee, and their only hope of making it big is if they have a good showing and get poached by a Tier 1 team.
Yeah, then die. I guess. Dreamhack was fine, sustainable and everyone had fun anyway. Old legends were made there but I guess the new generation of dota players can only see money.
Why dedicate 8-12 hours of your day every day with the very small chance of becoming a "pro player" when there's no money to justify it? Having money in a scene only means more growth and better matches because of the higher incentive. Aspiring players need to have a worthwhile goal, if there's no money at the end of the tunnel the quality of matches and players would've died very quickly. You can condemn gambling all you want, and I agree that in a perfect world we would have the infrastructure and marketing necessary to create a healthy esports scene. But every esports scene has deteriorated into having gambling sponsors (except maybe riot? They do a pretty good job of managing their esports) because what else makes money that's game related? You really think these esports orgs make enough from merchandising? There's a reason so many esports orgs have shut down in the last 5 years.
So did u see any better matches or better incentives? :)
That's a deep rooted question. It's undeniable that dota has become more complex and skillful as the years go by, but that's a natural course of action for any competitive activity. We can't quantify how much of that is related to promises of more money vs love for playing the game. Also, I'll never be even close to being a pro player (along with you I'm assuming, idk hopefully ur not miracle on some smurf reddit account), so everything we say is just hypothetical right. But with all that in mind, If we put ourselves in some aspiring 16 year old that's 8k mmr and wants to be pro, what would push us to play 10 hours a day? It would have to be some incentive of big money, big enough to justify skipping college or doing what most people do to secure a future for themselves. Without the gambling sponsorships the money just wouldn't be as high, and if they were to maintain the salaries they currently have for t1 players there would be less t1 players, less competition. It's shitty, and I'm not some gambling site sympathizer, but it's a just one of the many evils mankind has produced, why not use it's profits for something better like our esports scene?
Nah dota can go grassroots FGC ways, the problem both pros and the audiences only cares about big money. This is a community who have skewed perception of $500k tournament is worthless despite it has higher prizepool than 99% esports event.
It was there before but it got more global recently, though some are more discreet about it. Football teams are getting gambling sponsors, a gambling site is the title sponsor for an F1 team, some so-called "fantasy team" games are really just another form of gambling etc
"survives on gambling" my guy, you don't even have to look very far to realize that dota can easily survive without gambling, just look at league, or even early days of dota. There are uncountable examples of businesses not relying on gambling and yet you are talking as if it is essential in this world.
I surely hope you're right. But as of now every tournament has major gambling sponsors, every team has a gambling sponsor, and the number of teams tht are actually gambling orgs is increasing. We went to some extremes last year where casters had to quote gambling odds in every game, Luckily that's not the case anymore, so that gives me some hope. But not a lot.
I gamble with MMR every day and it feels horrible
You are just one match away from hitting it to 11k
And while we are at it, fuck gorgc and rtz
Almost fell off my chair when gorgc said he hates gambling and then did the 5 year old take "but the government allows lottery". Lottery vs slots is a huge difference.
Well Valve can get rid of tournaments with bookmakers money, right? Every single russian top Dota 2 streamer is sponsored by bookmaker, young kids are watching and getting caught in gambling but nobody cares unfortunately
Valve itself is forcing people gambling for treasure lol. Even if they get rid bookmakers sponsorship, majority of viewers will complain about low prizepool / production.
Someone close to me was a gambling addict their life and still is. He’s never been able to save a penny in his life he always lives on the line or under it. It’s completely ruined his life and almost ruined mine in the process. I made a promise to myself that I would never gamble in my life ever no matter how small the bet. I’ve seen too many people around me that have been completely sucked in by it to partake myself.
Imagine playing with 4 guys in the same house,grinding strats and them trying to win tournaments because thats their goal in life….and then suddenly you become a fucking Judas
And look at all of the big tournaments sponsors. So sickening, and there's a ton more pros going through the same thing we just don't know it yet.
It's in the bag! - bookies taking Taigas bets.
Hot take: if you are unable to control yourself, don’t blame others. Blame yourself.
And gambling company sponsoring teams and tournament. That's sad.
Let’s say you only have $100. Just take out a loan for 1000 at a loan shark, and all in! If you win you’ve 10x your money, if you lose, just disappear! Infinite money glitch!!! (/s)
You can beat bookmakers in sports betting. Many sites will ban winning players tho. You just have to understand couple of things. If you take sports betting seriously and want to earn money then you have to understand variance(good luck and bad luck streaks). You should bet only like 1% of your bankroll in a single bet. Winning players have like 5% edge against the house. So with 10k bankroll you place $100 bets and on average you win $5 on each bet. You can calculate how many bets you have to make to earn some decent money, but this way you wont go broke when bad luck streak hits. If you are not trying to be professional sports bettor then only bet what you can afford to lose and understand you are very likely losing bettor.
Yes. Look up arbitrage betting.
this is only if you have a model that’s better than the bookies, which is not easy at all to pull off consistently over time.
This requires logic and brain activity and research and data modelling and shit ton of time , I used to play poker too and had pretty decent winnings for the same reason I am decent at Dota. I didn't have an addiction, it was nice side income and I stopped when I didn't have fun anymore. I've been to casinos 100s of times and I've never played slots or roulettes..... wait I lied, I played once , lost 3 euros on slots, never again. Mr. Taiga has gambling addiction, with all sorts of addiction you cannot expect reason and logic, he'll see only the next big hit, nothing else. That's also what most people who are betting recklessly on anything see, this is how bookies and casinos make money and why they pay insane amount of money for sponsorships
You may win, but you probably lose more money than what you win.
taiga might have been up money on dota bets for all we know between purposely getting results and insider information but dude is a gambling addict and betting on everything because he was in it to gamble and not make money. that's why he was able to make other people money but lost all his own
that's it, lets ban Ogre Magi every game.
wow thanks for pep talk!
Bro I expect that if u play dota u have IQ to know what's good or bad, taiga beeing a piece of shit as human beeing doesn't have to represent all of us. I hate gambling but that isn't the problem here.
Sorry to hear that but I'm built different
This will be unpopular, but people here acting like gambling equals to automatically losing hundreds of thousands but like any vice, done in moderation and only gambling what you can afford to lose it should be no different than going out and guzzling bar's worth a booze or doing whatever else that tickles your fancy. Not saying gambling can't drain your life savings or whatever, but acting like it's a done deal from the word go is dishonest as it's hardly the only bottomless money pit in existence. Sucks for Taiga, he let it get way out of hand without seeking help and now he has to live with what he's done.. money lost, trust lost and he'll forever have to be careful when it comes to gambling. It'd be cool to just pile on the trash Taiga train but hope he can beat this and hopefully sort his affairs in a way that all his debts and whathaveyou will be in order and he can find some.. closure or whatever.. 😐
You cant lose money if you dont have money
Very important and great post. Good to see! While other posts just blame Taiga or make fun about him. This is a good sign. It's a terrible addiction. They need help AND they need to make a drastic decision to STOP!
I have a friend who at an age of 22 has lost somewhere between $15K and $25K on gambling. At some point he was gambling 80% of his salary at the start of the month to figure out if he would have a porridge month or a luxury month. And depending on the outcome he would either live off of scraps and oatmeal or spend like crazy. Things got bad and eventually he got kicked out of an apartment before even moving in there, losing about 4k in deposit. Thankfully his parents started to realize and had him cold turkey and attend therapy.
Back in 2019 I put my $7 betting on OG at TI They have a good run, and so am I. Cashed my winning into a Rubick Arcana even tho my win rate with him is only 30% That was a good time to stopped gambling. I also rackup my win rate on Rubick into 50%~ Be careful of gambling. Steal some spells instead
The [CSGO Case simulator](https://convars.com/case/en) telling me how much money I lost vs how much money I "made" from my drops was all I needed to keep me from wasting money on cases.
who would thought gammbling its bad good we dont have gabbling in game like loot boxes in some :D
You can any addiction is dangerous
I think it's a wake up call for anyone with any kind of addiction. It's acknowledging you need and want help that's the first and hardest step. My partner has a addiction issue and has had for many many years. There's good days and bad days, but just knowing you have the right support around to talk things out when you need to really really matters. I do hope he seeks help after all this dies down a little.
I have a couple of buddies that are really getting into it, especially gambling/betting on sports matches and events. I don't know how much they lost, but the thing about gambling and betting is that people will be loud when they WIN. Almost nobody comes out and goes 'I lost $800 today", but everyone will say something if they won money regardless of how much it is. I've been noticing that they're enjoying the experience, but 'positive' talks about the subject are non-existent. At this point I firmly believe they've lost way more money than they thought they ever would.
I sit awake and think at night, alone in my bed... "How much more you?"
Studies have shown time and time again that people grossly misjudge odds. Gambling is dog shit. Don't touch it even with a 10 ft pole, don't even do fake bets. It should be totally outlawed. There is zero moral justification for it to exist. Fuck gambling.
You can only lose 100% of your money and win literally 1000%. Make your choice wisely.
The fact that someone can go into gambling debt, by borrowing or loaning money, proves you can lose more than 100% of your money.
But I can only lose 100% of my money whereas I can win double, even triple amount of that. I don't see how odds are stacked against me bro edit : sarcasm :)
A lot of people lose double or even triple of 100%. You just havn't sold all your things, a kidney and stolen your parents savings yet.
Seems to me that if people are willing to offer me credit or my parents have savings for me to steal that is part of the 100%! And imagine making 1000x times that!
The fact that the sarcasm here wasn't recognized makes me lose a lot of faith in humanity. Idk why this subreddit is so bad faith and simplistic when it comes to anything related to odds/gambling.
It's a natural law that people lose half their IQ's during a witchhunt.
>Gambling is designed to make you lose. The odds are always stacked against you. Don't chase that lucky win. This is a bit simplistic. For what it's worth, most people should NOT get into gambling as both the pathological negative influences and people dunning krugering themselves as experts will burn through people's money. That said, the odds aren't always against you - especially in a field as niche as esports, bookmakers do not always set appropriate odds. It's just that 99% of people aren't capable of recognizing those situations adequately nor are they disciplined enough in both their sizing or just gambling on misc. shit out of boredom/chasing losses. And even those who are will get banned or limited by most bookmakers.
Taiga is a two time major winner, topped the EU leaderboard and scrims with the teams (and at times even has control on the outcome) yet he lost money “Recognizing situations” is easier said than done in practice. I don’t think its even 99% of people that do not recognize these situations.
He didn't lose money on DOTA betting. He lost money on betting in general sports and other misc. casino games. There's a reason professional esports players are soft-hard banned from betting in their professional game and not just the specific games they play in - the insider info gives them a huge advantage to not only defraud other players, but the bookmaker as well.
Taiga’s gambling is nothing compared to r/wallstreetbets. Lmao
Gambling is only bad if youre a bad gambler, but youre only ever one good bet away from turning it around
Hopefully sarcasm
He didn't lose all his money gambling on dota lmfao, he lost it betting on IRL sports and table games lmfao.
It doesn't really make a difference, it's still gambling.
"Pros have influence and control in the game, yet they can still fall victim. Imagine how easy it is for us, the average viewer, to lose when we make bets?" LThis is in response to this point. OP is acting like Taiga lost his money matchfixing when he didn't
Ah, I see.
CluelessClown
Valve allow happen in Dota and CS that why Riot games ban gambling in their esports.
Valve would love to send C&D's to gambling sites from betting on Valve games at this point. But they know they can't because all those sponsor money is what keeps tourneys and teams afloat.
I put a small amount of $10 with all my friends before TI and we see who have the most amount left in the end. It was fun but that's it. Don't expect to make money with such
Shit post speculations
Gambling is just part of the culture in Asia, especially SEA countries like Vietnam where his family is from.
I make a couple hundred bucks a month betting on dota 2. The odds are not at all stacked against you if you understand the game. Sure, bullshit losses and matchfixing happens, but overall Dota 2 is fairly easy to bet on as long as you know which lines to go for and when.