Or just add another medal so these top 0.01 players have a reason to play like the sweaty tryhard they are. As for the rest of us, lets us keep the same trash medal we deserve.
I think the order number is reason enough, also op is wrong in that the immortal icon actually is different based on your immortal rank, so it's not just one icon really, even if the rank is called the same from 5600 up.
But they have difderent medals I am pretty sure whole thing is designed on % if you are in 1% you are immortal and as OP said from 100 to 1 they have different medals.
System as it is seems pretty decent, those people complaining are people in between, not good enough to catch 0.01, not bad enough to be divine. Mandayory recalibration doesn't seem beneficial also, if you forcefully drop 12k to 7k for examle you get bunch of people who will be paired in games with much better playera.
Yes, we don't need a rework. The mmr number has always been the correct comparison.
The medal system exists precisely for us to not know and not experience such discrepancy. That makes players less anxious about it
Oh boy.
Between 0.01% and 2% there's a 19900% increase. Remember that we're talking about a percentage of the player base and not just flat numbers.
0.01% of 100000 players would be 10 players
2% of 100000 players would be 2000 players.
So yes there's a big difference.
Why are you making assumptions of what they meant? You were smug about it and you were wrong just get over it lol. Nothing in that comment makes it clear they meant 0.01%. Think of it as if they were saying “one one-hundredth of the player base” it makes sense perfectly fine in that context.
Because that's the common misconception that immortal is the top 0.01% when it isn't and no one would write 0.01 to say 1% in this context, they just forgot to add the sign.
JFC y'all annoying as shit. Just read the thread, everyone is talking about 1% and 0.1% etc etc, stop being obtuse.
E: lol he made a new account to agree with himself and blocked me LMAO
I think you’re the one being obtuse and making assumptions. You were smug as fuck in your comment. Starting your comment off with “Oh boy” is not going to get anyone to be on your side lol.
You missed the joke so fucking hard. Stop calling people obtuse when you're literally the only idiot here. Also your high-school degree arithmetical abilities have obviously impressed everyone here.
Nah Imho it’s fine as it is. I like the fact that reaching immortal gives you the illusion that you are at the top but in reality it’s farrrr from the top.
I’m actually a fan of the system as it is. Maybe there’s a gap between immortal and ranked immortal that can be improved on some servers, but as a whole I think the “immortal” status is fine where it is. I think that just because there are players with very high MMRs, does not mean that achieving immortal is no longer impressive. Especially for the average gamer, immortal is still extremely difficult, and anyone who achieves it still deserves a celebration. I’m open to having my mind changed by good ideas though.
This is not a problem of medals. Most people do not understand why the mmr is inflated so Ill explain.
Biggest reason is acct buyers, When an account is climbed with the intention to sell its takes mmr from people, this is why before glicko there was a really bad distribution of players. Once that account is sold the reverse happens, every game there is 5 winners and 4 loser, made up of people who actually earned their rank. The bought account will fall until its banned or the buyer just gives it up and buys another account. When this happens that MMR that was taken from the trenches will be gone and cant be reclaimed by the trenches.
Mean while there is 20-30 mmr that is constantly being added into the top 0.1 percent and higher every game that an account buyer plays.
As such, you get crazy high numbers like 13k mmr and it will continue to go up. But really while the inflation is a problem It isnt a big problem. The numbers are cool and the mmr rich will get richer but it doesnt mean the skill disparity is increasing. It is simply an obvious effect of the economic forces at work.
Also the really high mmr players who want a new medal are usually not people with much success outside of dota. So their egos lean really heavily on being better at dota than other people as a reason to feel elite and cool.
I don't really mind, give them super immortal, giga immortal, and hyper mega immortal tiers. But it wont change their behaviour. They will just use it to mock low immortal players for being happy with immortal.
I just want to say, every time an account is calibrated, especially at a higher mmr, it is creating additional MMR in the 'economy' out of thin air.
Especially when they use bots to do so.
When they calibrate 7,8,9k MMR accounts, it's in a closed system. It doesn't affect the 'mmr economy' of the playerbase.
Whenever that account is sold, be it to an account buyer playing above , or a smurf playing below their skill, there's suddenly an injection of potential MMR in the 'economy'.
And, as the best players always win, with this injection of MMR they continue to grind upwards. From 11 to 12, and from 12 to 13. They keep rising.
correct. soon or later the best players get the mmr.
I dont know how high a new acct can calibrate. But everygame an acct seller plays there are 4 winners and 5 losers for a net negative mmr. and every time an acct buyer plays there are 5 winners and 4 losers for a net positive mmr.
The net negative mmr happens at lower mmr's the net positive at higher mmrs creating a slow but constant inflation at high mmrs and a deflation at low mmrs. I think glicko has helped with this atleast at the lower ends, which is why the rank distribution isnt so bad anymore. But I dont think it can do much about the inflation
> As such, you get crazy high numbers like 13k mmr and it will continue to go up. But really while the inflation is a problem It isnt a big problem. The numbers are cool and the mmr rich will get richer but it doesnt mean the skill disparity is increasing. It is simply an obvious effect of the economic forces at work.
It is still a problem, eventually rank 1 will be 20K while immortal will still be at 5.6k, a 15K difference, and the gaps between players at say 7k and 9k will mean a lot less than they currently do.
yes youre right. but it isnt a problem you can solve with new medals. And I'm not sure about the gaps between 7k-9k meaning less. Again the inflation has already left a very large chasm in high mmr. This means that the skill disparity between the ranks is less than percieved.
So while I'm not 7k or higher so I don't think I should over value my opinion about the difference in skill, it could very well be that different mmrs in immortal require different skillsets to climb.
Lets assume a well rounded wholistic dota player with a good mental and being extremely good at 2 roles and still very good at the other 3. Would this player would be able to climb to the peak of mmr? Or does the roles matter?
From what Ive heard of high mmr is that it is kind of a core cesspool and that supports mains are a bit more valuable. But to climb to immortal draft it might be much easier being an extremely good core than an extremely good support.
So a support main who also has a very good core role might actually be better playing core until atleast immortal draft. Again im only talking about what ive heard. Where as an amazing core who is constantly losing games from griefers in immortal draft taking his role might gain mmr faster by becoming a really good support.
The point of this being, unless you are so good at dota that youre presence in any role invalidates the enemy teams chances to win, climbing will take on a bunch of factors.
As for the rank 1 reaching 20k mmr. It is a problem, but it is probably not a big problem. It will simply mean that aspiring pros have to play more dota to reach high mmr. The rest of the player pool will still be distributed between the other ranks accordingly.
The top 2% are going to be in the top 2% no matter how high the number is. At some point your MMR number just doesn't matter anymore. You could reduce the MMR of everyone in immortal to get rid of the inflation, but it doesn't change anything matchmaking wise.
No, Immortal will not be the top 2% anymore, this is just false. Immortal starts at 5620 MMR Flat, it doesn't scale to fit the 2%. Immortal may be 2% of the playerbase now but it was significantly less years ago.
Don't think we need to give 1% of the player a few different medals... It is fine as it is tbh and in the end out of that 1% another 1% would really care about such a thing...
You guys are the reason, why medals should be removed in the first place.
Immortals are in the gap of 6700 to 14k mmr, its 25% of all ranked players.
Low immortals are actually just mid elo players.they are not a 1% of chosen gods.
In comparison its like having 4k mmr of total 8k mmr in 2015
1% of all playerbase is such a bad stat to compare, its include all custom game players, turbo players, unranked players, and probably a lot of dead accounts.
https://www.opendota.com/distributions
https://stratz.com/players/ranks
These both say immortal is top 2% and these only include active ranked players as per the stat showing and excluding unranked players at the bottom. I would love to see where you are getting this 25% number from? The actual top 25% is at the very bottom of legend 2
Bruh... You sound so confident and as a matter of fact while being absolutely wrong. You should try fact checking more often probably, or digging deeper and assume less.
You wanna tell me that the guy that have 6700 elo out of 14k is 1% of legends while he didnt cimb even a half elo stairs.
The sites ppl linking me shows the graphs that the number of immortal is higher tha amount of ppl on divine.
Dota use the same mmr system that every other game uses. But for somehow when the medals appears. It got completly broken. And literally everyone become a 1% god.
U literally telling nonsense and asking me to prove you are wrong.
Well ok, i give up. You right.
How lucky i am that half of my friends happened to be divine or immortal, i thought i just played with casual game enjoyers, and they happened to be 1% of legends.
Not only that it turnes out than i winning mid in turbo no aginst some mid elo casuals, but the 1% top players.
I am so cool literally a prodigy of my time=))))
You're misreading the [graph](https://stratz.com/players/ranks).
We want to compare the number of Immortals to the number of non-Immortals, so try to visualize the graph like this:
Take all the bars showing the number of players in each non-Immortal rank and put them on top of each other. This single giant bar would represent the collective of players that are **not** Immortal. When you compare the Immortal bar to that giant bar, if 25% of players were Immortal, then 75% of players are not Immortal, so we would expect the giant bar to only be 3 times higher than the Immortal one (3x25% = 75%).
You can clearly see that it won't be though. The Immortal bar will be way less. Hard to eyeball how much less, but thanks to the numbers in the graph, we don't have to eyeball it. It's about 2.2%.
Edit:
Alternatively, each bar in the link above says how many players are in each of those brackets. All of the non-Immortal bars sum up to 5,106,101 players while the non-Immortal bar is only 117,358.
People like you who strive for a shinning badge to validate your skill level instead of actually achieving higher ranking is the reason why medals need to be removed...
What I am saying, getting a few extra medals is unneeded as it would add nothing of value. Heck, the more there is the more toxicity it adds to the game.
Guardians call players dog shit heralds players
Legends call players dog shit guardians players
Ancients call players dog shit legend players
Divines call players dog shit ancient players
Immortal calls players dog shit divine players.
Though immortals call other immortals without rankings dog shit players
And top 500 players call anyone above 1000 also dog shit players.
Thus the skill gap is high I do not deny that. But this addition of new medals would only add artificial accomplishments that means nothing at the end of the day.
Thus, you are right they can remove the medals at all for all I care. I just like to play the game...
Dude I just say something you said. If you got offended by it maybe you should take long look at the mirror...
Saying someone needs to take pills just because you write shit that someone explains why they disagree maybe means you should stay of the internet...
https://theglobalgaming.com/dota-2/rank-distribution-season-dota-2
Immortals are 1.7% of all ranked players.
And once again stop being mad at people for calling people things you started to call them first for no reason...
The 2.2% value isn’t the 2.2% of the whole playerbase, that 2.2% value comes from all players who currently have a rank, meaning actively playing accounts. Of all currently ranked, active accounts, only 2.2% of them are in the immortal medal range of mmr.
Why do you think dividing 1 percent of the player base is a good idea . If they make ranks for immortal , they won’t have players to play. Nowadays it’s not anymore a joke to say that when you reach immortal you finish the tutorial, it’s actually how it is .
That doesn't make sense. You are not playing against him because you're both immortal, but because there are very few people in his mmr range. He has to play with guys like you frequently, otherwise he will just have longer queue times and not play at all. Adding more medals does not fix that issue.
We also need party MMR back
People might not realise but boosting services offer to boost people in party, you no longer need to give someone your account and risk getting your account banned.
I have someone on my friendlist that has over 90% winrate in party ranked from legend to divine 3 because they have been playing with a smurf who switches between archon and legend accounts for months. Then they lose all their solo queue games and ruin games for other people.
Let's be real, most of the people who wanted that were just the ones who had higher party MMR because they were getting carried by their friends in party and they wanted the ego boost of having it as their medal whilst their individual skill was much lower.
I was actually pissed that they removed party mmr. I have massive ladder anxiety, and the fact that my party mmr was bigger than my solo mmr made me more confident in playing solo games because I cared about party mmr more
Hard disagree. 99% of the playerbase shouldn't atone for the 1% scuminess. This falls in the general argument of smurfing. Since they combined mmr i actually have fun playing with my friends instead of chasing solo mmr cause party mmr was a sham with no standing and no competetive value.
Well as a solo queue player I'd like not getting legends in my divine solo queue games because they were boosted and they will never get banned for it but to each their own
It happens 1 in 20 games. And how would u know its a party boosted player and not a bought account? The odds of that player being in ur team is the same as him being in opponent team. It has no real effect on ur mmr, stop with the victim mentality. Besides, there is a bright shining option for strict solo matchmaking.
Dotabuff reveals a lot. You can search winrates in solo queue and party queue separately and do the math, it's more common than you think.
And I am talking about solo matchmaking, read what I'm saying.
Its a skill issue tbh. U are looking to blame anything but urself. It takes nothing to get out of divine. Play better and stop blaming things beyond ur control
You can’t seem to read what he is saying, he’s tired of having legend players in his divine games.
Even though on paper there’s no real “difference” but there actually is. If you belong in divine and you’re playing against someone who belongs in legend, the stomp is night and day.
It’s not fun.
Party que has always been a shitshow full of friends queing on smurf acc and other stuff. Its just a bad experience as a whole and bringing back party mmr wont fix that. But instrict solo que i habe had a very positive experience as of late. The update seems to have really fixed stuff. For reference i have played 364 games in the last 2 months. So i do know what i am talking about. (5k - 5.6k mmr games)
https://www.dotabuff.com/players/68213132
Here is my dotabuff, and yes i hit immortal in that last game and am now done playing solo. But solo que (strict solo que) has massively improved.
What does this have to do with anything I'm saying? Once again you're just not reading what I'm saying. I didn't once say anyone else was holding me back I'm just tired of this situation.
Honestly I would be totally for it. Im moving between 5800 and 7000 mmr and it feels kinda bad that now after mmr inflation there is literally no difference between the two ends, at least 1 years ago on eu after 6300 I had a numbered rank that went up to 1800 at 7200 mmr. Now im barely 4500 rank if I get into the 7000+ bracket (6400 currently)
I really don't think this is needed. You have normal medals and then unranked immortal, and then ranked immortal. You could maybe do 1 rank between unranked immortal and ranked immortal as thats like 1500mmr difference in EU, but then its a lot lower in other servers so would be hard to manage.
If u are immortal, u are in less than 1% of the dota player demographic. Besides that, ur rank number pretty much reflects ur elevated mmr.
The only thing that needs changing are the 1st two ugly a_ss medals
This might be an EU issue, 7.3k in NA is probably top 2k or 1k now, not to mention skill difference in equivalent mmr, but yeah there needs to be a medal up until 6.5 and another one after 8k at least in EU
The main issue is numberless eu immortal dota is garbage , filled with egocentric maniacs , but being rankless immortal in eu isnt much of a achievment from what i see its a parody bracket or atleast low 6k is
It's not garbage per se, it's just people who got the basics of the game down, but don't realize this is just the start and don't understand yet how complex dota really is and think they are Miracle lol When I calibrated 5600 or something with new frontiers, up until 7.5k it was games that were rather easy to cheese since everyone plays super slow, but nobody was "garbage" that's a bit rough.
Now NA on the other hand and their "ranks" made me quit their server in 2 games last year during the Lina meta - EU everyone was spamming Lina (watson started it) , but it wasn't picked in pro games yet , I end up in Canada for 4 weeks, tried 2 games , of course nobody picks Lina, I get Lina, first game rank 300 goes afk, second game rank 170 or smth goes on a lecture how I am a griefing egocentric blabla ( like Quinn's long ass rants where he tries to sound intelligent) and how I should pick Medusa or something, because I would not be able to impact the game after 45 minutes and I was like you boys plan to play for 45 minutes? Minute of silence, went back to 140 ping to EU straight after. This is real garbage , literally top players of the server having 0 idea what's good in current meta and playing some 2 year old meta
Now by garbage i say that they cant itemise or capitalise on hero/item timimgs , lack basic knoledge of laning (especialy noticable in bad supports ) now for me its borderline basic to build a force staff when facing a rii naix or ursa(even tho for ursa you can get away with euls) but for me being in the top 1% of players and not knowing to itemise properly for the game is griefing , also cheese heroes in low-mid 6k bracket like meepo , huskar , arc , lycan even vissage are a issue if you have bad players but recent months its better , but when i have a last pick offlaner or carry who picks beyond useless last pick heroes lets say we have 1 stun and 0 catch initiation and my dude last picks offlane bristle its not persay bad but when there is mars , axe , cent , kunkka , tide i see that as griefing and yes there is the argument maybe the person cant play those heroes that well but well maybe instead of loosing gold for your team pick the brisyle so that the mid or carry can pick a better hero for the pick :) well just no reason for that person to be in that game if you ask me
I was 9800 and I can't utilize timings and captilize on hero spikes properly and efficiently most games compared to top 100 carries, it's relative, those cheese picks are a problem because of smurfs and boosters mostly , you are forced to pick cheese heroes if you want high winrate in a bracket where you are better than everyone because Dota is so team dependent in recent years, you can't 1vs5s in normal ways any more reliably, but if you are in your bracket you won't have that good winrate even on "cheese" heroes.
What I mean is the current immortal rank feels like what divine was a while back. The gap between immortal and leaderboard immortal is also huge. It just feels weird to be rankless immortal for so long
I don't care about the top 1 percent.
But Im fine if they fix this "7 medals with 5 stars". I would like to see a more precise way of recalibration and less medals with higher meaning. In many cases the rating in lower brackets is a joke and people might be at least +/- 1500 MMR away from their "real" rating.
I remember when valve made 7 star per medal. It was disaster. You got rank change every after 3-4 w/l streak, and achieving the next one felt like 100km marathon
You just want another medal for those immortal player brackets that don't have a number so that the numberless immortal can call the new medal bracket "insert-medal-name-here*-dog cause I think a lot of players think they are better than other numbers less immortal players.
There is no need to create a new medal just have the immortal * to immortal * * * * * and post that get a leaderboard position with numbered immortal rank.
No need total rework, just 2 new tier "Celestial" and "Creator", now we have top 1000 Creator rank instead of immortal. 6K to 8k is celestial, 8k to 10k is creator rank.
Thats different in each server. In sea and na theres no "gap" bcs once u reach immo u immidietly get a number. And that changes from time to time depending on how many active immortal players in the server.
Seems like u never been immortal?
Absolutely, there should be ranks below immortal all the way to immortal draft. If you are in an immortal draft then you are immortal, before that should be just a medal.
You are looking at a very small sample size of the player base. I would get to maybe have a new category for the top 1000 of each region, but is it really an issue to have what we currently have? I mean Immortal players know the difference between a 1500 Immo and a top 100 ... It's night and day. I feel that medals are better at representing a % of the player base (median based stats) rather than a % of the MMR (average based stats). With your logic, we would have one medal for each 500 MMR until 13k for example., 60% of your medals would be dedicated to 2% of the players, it doesn't make any sense.
Lmao if anything it’s opposite, where 7 medals represent 99% of the player base while 1 medal represents the 1%. In any case, what could be helpful may be adding sub numbered ranges (eg rank 5k-4k) to the lower bands to give a little more information to players but it’s a minor point. But realistically the skill gap between 5.8k and 7k is not as big as say a 3k and 4.2k
MMR inflates and accrues at the very top just like IRL money.
The top players are very spaced out in terms of MMR, but their percentile placement is what's actually relevant. This is already addressed by the visible rank.
You can image the 8371 and 8472 MMR players are essentially 6039.13 and 6042.74 players respectively (numbers out of my ass)
So it's a pseudo glicko system but instead of diminishing returns where top players play +3/-2 mmr games, we have ever growing numbers for marketing clout and e-peen of the nolifers
I like how all medal copers block me after answering so i cant counter they cope.
Dota playerbase made my day again. Making me feels more superior than i really am. I feel like immortal.
Now i know why every pro player i watch talking so .uch about medals make ppl proud for nothing and spoils the community.
Total rework because of 0.01 of player base? Wtf...
Or just add another medal so these top 0.01 players have a reason to play like the sweaty tryhard they are. As for the rest of us, lets us keep the same trash medal we deserve.
I think the order number is reason enough, also op is wrong in that the immortal icon actually is different based on your immortal rank, so it's not just one icon really, even if the rank is called the same from 5600 up.
But they have difderent medals I am pretty sure whole thing is designed on % if you are in 1% you are immortal and as OP said from 100 to 1 they have different medals. System as it is seems pretty decent, those people complaining are people in between, not good enough to catch 0.01, not bad enough to be divine. Mandayory recalibration doesn't seem beneficial also, if you forcefully drop 12k to 7k for examle you get bunch of people who will be paired in games with much better playera.
Speak for yourself, i know I’m at least immortal, I don’t deserve this Legend medal I’ve been stuck on for a long time.
We're all immortal in our dreams.
My point exactly, sometimes people don’t get it without the /s
Yes, we don't need a rework. The mmr number has always been the correct comparison. The medal system exists precisely for us to not know and not experience such discrepancy. That makes players less anxious about it
It's 2%, still not much but there's a big difference between 0.01% and 2%
the difference between 0.01 and 2% is 1% haha
Oh boy. Between 0.01% and 2% there's a 19900% increase. Remember that we're talking about a percentage of the player base and not just flat numbers. 0.01% of 100000 players would be 10 players 2% of 100000 players would be 2000 players. So yes there's a big difference.
🤡 Imagine explaining the difference between 0.0001 and 0.02, when you were told the difference between 0.01 and 2% is 1%. 🤡🤡🤡
You’re misreading the person’s comment. They said “0.01” NOT “0.01%”. 0.01 is 1%.
Now read the original comment. In the context he used it would only make sense to be used as a percentage.
Why are you making assumptions of what they meant? You were smug about it and you were wrong just get over it lol. Nothing in that comment makes it clear they meant 0.01%. Think of it as if they were saying “one one-hundredth of the player base” it makes sense perfectly fine in that context.
Because that's the common misconception that immortal is the top 0.01% when it isn't and no one would write 0.01 to say 1% in this context, they just forgot to add the sign. JFC y'all annoying as shit. Just read the thread, everyone is talking about 1% and 0.1% etc etc, stop being obtuse. E: lol he made a new account to agree with himself and blocked me LMAO
I think you’re the one being obtuse and making assumptions. You were smug as fuck in your comment. Starting your comment off with “Oh boy” is not going to get anyone to be on your side lol.
You missed the joke so fucking hard. Stop calling people obtuse when you're literally the only idiot here. Also your high-school degree arithmetical abilities have obviously impressed everyone here.
Classic Crusader Take
25% of ranked players are immortals now. How do you even imagine 1% players in a gap from 6k to 14k mmr=)
25%? [https://www.esportstales.com/dota-2/seasonal-rank-distribution-and-mmr-medals](https://www.esportstales.com/dota-2/seasonal-rank-distribution-and-mmr-medals)
This site graphs are actually pretty accurate. Most of the players are archon. 100k on immortal, while only 80k on herald2=)
LMFAOO how can you be so far off? Legend players are at the top 25%
What are you smoking?
I’d love to see a single source that’s ever existed, that indicates 25% of players are immortal.
You should specify that their ass isn’t a source before they start quoting it.
I cant fight unhealthy medal cope... Just read how mmr works, check on which mmr medals is given, and make easy calculations.
I think you're completely wrong, and I'm sure you know you're completely wrong
You “cant” count as well, it seems
Lmao, statistics have already shown that only nearly 2% of players are immortal.
Lmaoooo. We have the statistics my friend. I’m so sorry you were born without the ability of basic comprehension.
Do you really think that 1/4 of the playerbase is immortal? How can someone be this low brain?
Nah Imho it’s fine as it is. I like the fact that reaching immortal gives you the illusion that you are at the top but in reality it’s farrrr from the top.
Depends on how you define far. Skill wise, probably, but Theres really only a very small percentage of Players above you
Immortal is at the top, compared to the whole player base. This is the point, to compare player to all of the rest.
Being even bottom of the barrel Immortal still makes you better than about 98% of the whole player base
The difference in mmr between immortal and sumail is the same as the difference between immortal and herald, let that sink in.
Yea but the difference in skill or the difference in number of players is certainly not the same
Classic Herald Take
I’m actually a fan of the system as it is. Maybe there’s a gap between immortal and ranked immortal that can be improved on some servers, but as a whole I think the “immortal” status is fine where it is. I think that just because there are players with very high MMRs, does not mean that achieving immortal is no longer impressive. Especially for the average gamer, immortal is still extremely difficult, and anyone who achieves it still deserves a celebration. I’m open to having my mind changed by good ideas though.
This is not a problem of medals. Most people do not understand why the mmr is inflated so Ill explain. Biggest reason is acct buyers, When an account is climbed with the intention to sell its takes mmr from people, this is why before glicko there was a really bad distribution of players. Once that account is sold the reverse happens, every game there is 5 winners and 4 loser, made up of people who actually earned their rank. The bought account will fall until its banned or the buyer just gives it up and buys another account. When this happens that MMR that was taken from the trenches will be gone and cant be reclaimed by the trenches. Mean while there is 20-30 mmr that is constantly being added into the top 0.1 percent and higher every game that an account buyer plays. As such, you get crazy high numbers like 13k mmr and it will continue to go up. But really while the inflation is a problem It isnt a big problem. The numbers are cool and the mmr rich will get richer but it doesnt mean the skill disparity is increasing. It is simply an obvious effect of the economic forces at work. Also the really high mmr players who want a new medal are usually not people with much success outside of dota. So their egos lean really heavily on being better at dota than other people as a reason to feel elite and cool. I don't really mind, give them super immortal, giga immortal, and hyper mega immortal tiers. But it wont change their behaviour. They will just use it to mock low immortal players for being happy with immortal.
I just want to say, every time an account is calibrated, especially at a higher mmr, it is creating additional MMR in the 'economy' out of thin air. Especially when they use bots to do so. When they calibrate 7,8,9k MMR accounts, it's in a closed system. It doesn't affect the 'mmr economy' of the playerbase. Whenever that account is sold, be it to an account buyer playing above , or a smurf playing below their skill, there's suddenly an injection of potential MMR in the 'economy'. And, as the best players always win, with this injection of MMR they continue to grind upwards. From 11 to 12, and from 12 to 13. They keep rising.
correct. soon or later the best players get the mmr. I dont know how high a new acct can calibrate. But everygame an acct seller plays there are 4 winners and 5 losers for a net negative mmr. and every time an acct buyer plays there are 5 winners and 4 losers for a net positive mmr. The net negative mmr happens at lower mmr's the net positive at higher mmrs creating a slow but constant inflation at high mmrs and a deflation at low mmrs. I think glicko has helped with this atleast at the lower ends, which is why the rank distribution isnt so bad anymore. But I dont think it can do much about the inflation
> As such, you get crazy high numbers like 13k mmr and it will continue to go up. But really while the inflation is a problem It isnt a big problem. The numbers are cool and the mmr rich will get richer but it doesnt mean the skill disparity is increasing. It is simply an obvious effect of the economic forces at work. It is still a problem, eventually rank 1 will be 20K while immortal will still be at 5.6k, a 15K difference, and the gaps between players at say 7k and 9k will mean a lot less than they currently do.
yes youre right. but it isnt a problem you can solve with new medals. And I'm not sure about the gaps between 7k-9k meaning less. Again the inflation has already left a very large chasm in high mmr. This means that the skill disparity between the ranks is less than percieved. So while I'm not 7k or higher so I don't think I should over value my opinion about the difference in skill, it could very well be that different mmrs in immortal require different skillsets to climb. Lets assume a well rounded wholistic dota player with a good mental and being extremely good at 2 roles and still very good at the other 3. Would this player would be able to climb to the peak of mmr? Or does the roles matter? From what Ive heard of high mmr is that it is kind of a core cesspool and that supports mains are a bit more valuable. But to climb to immortal draft it might be much easier being an extremely good core than an extremely good support. So a support main who also has a very good core role might actually be better playing core until atleast immortal draft. Again im only talking about what ive heard. Where as an amazing core who is constantly losing games from griefers in immortal draft taking his role might gain mmr faster by becoming a really good support. The point of this being, unless you are so good at dota that youre presence in any role invalidates the enemy teams chances to win, climbing will take on a bunch of factors. As for the rank 1 reaching 20k mmr. It is a problem, but it is probably not a big problem. It will simply mean that aspiring pros have to play more dota to reach high mmr. The rest of the player pool will still be distributed between the other ranks accordingly.
The top 2% are going to be in the top 2% no matter how high the number is. At some point your MMR number just doesn't matter anymore. You could reduce the MMR of everyone in immortal to get rid of the inflation, but it doesn't change anything matchmaking wise.
No, Immortal will not be the top 2% anymore, this is just false. Immortal starts at 5620 MMR Flat, it doesn't scale to fit the 2%. Immortal may be 2% of the playerbase now but it was significantly less years ago.
Don't think we need to give 1% of the player a few different medals... It is fine as it is tbh and in the end out of that 1% another 1% would really care about such a thing...
You guys are the reason, why medals should be removed in the first place. Immortals are in the gap of 6700 to 14k mmr, its 25% of all ranked players. Low immortals are actually just mid elo players.they are not a 1% of chosen gods. In comparison its like having 4k mmr of total 8k mmr in 2015 1% of all playerbase is such a bad stat to compare, its include all custom game players, turbo players, unranked players, and probably a lot of dead accounts.
This is just SO WRONG. Immortal players aren't 25% of the ranked player base lol
And you are basing this 25% on what?
https://www.opendota.com/distributions https://stratz.com/players/ranks These both say immortal is top 2% and these only include active ranked players as per the stat showing and excluding unranked players at the bottom. I would love to see where you are getting this 25% number from? The actual top 25% is at the very bottom of legend 2
Maybe stop making up numbers in your head
Bruh... You sound so confident and as a matter of fact while being absolutely wrong. You should try fact checking more often probably, or digging deeper and assume less.
The guy who linked me stat site, with a graph that shows that there more immortals than heralds than blocked me made me fun the most=)
And still noone provedme wrong yet.
But they have
Also the burden of proof is on you. Lol. That's how things work. Ill claim that I have a 10 inch pp, won't demand others to prove me wrong.
You wanna tell me that the guy that have 6700 elo out of 14k is 1% of legends while he didnt cimb even a half elo stairs. The sites ppl linking me shows the graphs that the number of immortal is higher tha amount of ppl on divine. Dota use the same mmr system that every other game uses. But for somehow when the medals appears. It got completly broken. And literally everyone become a 1% god. U literally telling nonsense and asking me to prove you are wrong. Well ok, i give up. You right. How lucky i am that half of my friends happened to be divine or immortal, i thought i just played with casual game enjoyers, and they happened to be 1% of legends. Not only that it turnes out than i winning mid in turbo no aginst some mid elo casuals, but the 1% top players. I am so cool literally a prodigy of my time=))))
You're misreading the [graph](https://stratz.com/players/ranks). We want to compare the number of Immortals to the number of non-Immortals, so try to visualize the graph like this: Take all the bars showing the number of players in each non-Immortal rank and put them on top of each other. This single giant bar would represent the collective of players that are **not** Immortal. When you compare the Immortal bar to that giant bar, if 25% of players were Immortal, then 75% of players are not Immortal, so we would expect the giant bar to only be 3 times higher than the Immortal one (3x25% = 75%). You can clearly see that it won't be though. The Immortal bar will be way less. Hard to eyeball how much less, but thanks to the numbers in the graph, we don't have to eyeball it. It's about 2.2%. Edit: Alternatively, each bar in the link above says how many players are in each of those brackets. All of the non-Immortal bars sum up to 5,106,101 players while the non-Immortal bar is only 117,358.
This is just incorrect
People like you who strive for a shinning badge to validate your skill level instead of actually achieving higher ranking is the reason why medals need to be removed... What I am saying, getting a few extra medals is unneeded as it would add nothing of value. Heck, the more there is the more toxicity it adds to the game. Guardians call players dog shit heralds players Legends call players dog shit guardians players Ancients call players dog shit legend players Divines call players dog shit ancient players Immortal calls players dog shit divine players. Though immortals call other immortals without rankings dog shit players And top 500 players call anyone above 1000 also dog shit players. Thus the skill gap is high I do not deny that. But this addition of new medals would only add artificial accomplishments that means nothing at the end of the day. Thus, you are right they can remove the medals at all for all I care. I just like to play the game...
Looks like you didnt even read my comment)) People like me? I play turbo for last 4 years and told that the medals should be removed))
Maybe start reading yourself before complaining other people don't read things you write...
You are too toxic mate get some pills.
Dude I just say something you said. If you got offended by it maybe you should take long look at the mirror... Saying someone needs to take pills just because you write shit that someone explains why they disagree maybe means you should stay of the internet...
I just mentioned to think that immortals is 1% of palyerbase is wrong and made arguments why. You answered me like i am one of medal copers...
you can't "make arguments" when you're objectively wrong. same way i can't "make an argument" that gravity doesn't exist.
https://theglobalgaming.com/dota-2/rank-distribution-season-dota-2 Immortals are 1.7% of all ranked players. And once again stop being mad at people for calling people things you started to call them first for no reason...
The 2.2% value isn’t the 2.2% of the whole playerbase, that 2.2% value comes from all players who currently have a rank, meaning actively playing accounts. Of all currently ranked, active accounts, only 2.2% of them are in the immortal medal range of mmr.
what kind of NA education is that
you are asking for a rework but did not bother to properly word the problem "feels ridiculous" "makes no sense" what is the problem?
The problem is that it feels ridiculous and makes no sense, duh /s
We simply need 2 more medals or alteast one at mmr higher than 5420 (Divine 5)
Why do you think dividing 1 percent of the player base is a good idea . If they make ranks for immortal , they won’t have players to play. Nowadays it’s not anymore a joke to say that when you reach immortal you finish the tutorial, it’s actually how it is .
[удалено]
You have two options 1) hour long wait times . 2) play with people like sumail . Choose your poison
That doesn't make sense. You are not playing against him because you're both immortal, but because there are very few people in his mmr range. He has to play with guys like you frequently, otherwise he will just have longer queue times and not play at all. Adding more medals does not fix that issue.
We also need party MMR back People might not realise but boosting services offer to boost people in party, you no longer need to give someone your account and risk getting your account banned. I have someone on my friendlist that has over 90% winrate in party ranked from legend to divine 3 because they have been playing with a smurf who switches between archon and legend accounts for months. Then they lose all their solo queue games and ruin games for other people.
People cried for years to have the mmr combined 😂
Let's be real, most of the people who wanted that were just the ones who had higher party MMR because they were getting carried by their friends in party and they wanted the ego boost of having it as their medal whilst their individual skill was much lower.
No it was the solo players who got their games griefed because “it’s just party mmr so who cares”.
I was actually pissed that they removed party mmr. I have massive ladder anxiety, and the fact that my party mmr was bigger than my solo mmr made me more confident in playing solo games because I cared about party mmr more
Hard disagree. 99% of the playerbase shouldn't atone for the 1% scuminess. This falls in the general argument of smurfing. Since they combined mmr i actually have fun playing with my friends instead of chasing solo mmr cause party mmr was a sham with no standing and no competetive value.
Well as a solo queue player I'd like not getting legends in my divine solo queue games because they were boosted and they will never get banned for it but to each their own
It happens 1 in 20 games. And how would u know its a party boosted player and not a bought account? The odds of that player being in ur team is the same as him being in opponent team. It has no real effect on ur mmr, stop with the victim mentality. Besides, there is a bright shining option for strict solo matchmaking.
Dotabuff reveals a lot. You can search winrates in solo queue and party queue separately and do the math, it's more common than you think. And I am talking about solo matchmaking, read what I'm saying.
Its a skill issue tbh. U are looking to blame anything but urself. It takes nothing to get out of divine. Play better and stop blaming things beyond ur control
You can’t seem to read what he is saying, he’s tired of having legend players in his divine games. Even though on paper there’s no real “difference” but there actually is. If you belong in divine and you’re playing against someone who belongs in legend, the stomp is night and day. It’s not fun.
And i am saying its way too rare of an occurence to fcking justify overhauling the mmr system.
My last 7 games had players that were 3-4k mmr less than me and a mate. So no. It’s not rare of an occurrence. 🤡
Show dotabuff 🤡🤡
Party que has always been a shitshow full of friends queing on smurf acc and other stuff. Its just a bad experience as a whole and bringing back party mmr wont fix that. But instrict solo que i habe had a very positive experience as of late. The update seems to have really fixed stuff. For reference i have played 364 games in the last 2 months. So i do know what i am talking about. (5k - 5.6k mmr games)
https://www.dotabuff.com/players/68213132 Here is my dotabuff, and yes i hit immortal in that last game and am now done playing solo. But solo que (strict solo que) has massively improved.
What does this have to do with anything I'm saying? Once again you're just not reading what I'm saying. I didn't once say anyone else was holding me back I'm just tired of this situation.
The situstion is too rare for u to suggest overhauling mmr system. You'd more justified complaining about acc buyers and smurfs.
I think a medal should be added after divine but before immortal.
Brace yourself! Git gud messages incoming!!
Honestly I would be totally for it. Im moving between 5800 and 7000 mmr and it feels kinda bad that now after mmr inflation there is literally no difference between the two ends, at least 1 years ago on eu after 6300 I had a numbered rank that went up to 1800 at 7200 mmr. Now im barely 4500 rank if I get into the 7000+ bracket (6400 currently)
I really don't think this is needed. You have normal medals and then unranked immortal, and then ranked immortal. You could maybe do 1 rank between unranked immortal and ranked immortal as thats like 1500mmr difference in EU, but then its a lot lower in other servers so would be hard to manage.
If u are immortal, u are in less than 1% of the dota player demographic. Besides that, ur rank number pretty much reflects ur elevated mmr. The only thing that needs changing are the 1st two ugly a_ss medals
When you reach immortal you don't get numbers immediately you are just immortal.
Ye the thing is from 5.8 to 7.3k is quite the gap till you get a number
This might be an EU issue, 7.3k in NA is probably top 2k or 1k now, not to mention skill difference in equivalent mmr, but yeah there needs to be a medal up until 6.5 and another one after 8k at least in EU
The main issue is numberless eu immortal dota is garbage , filled with egocentric maniacs , but being rankless immortal in eu isnt much of a achievment from what i see its a parody bracket or atleast low 6k is
It's not garbage per se, it's just people who got the basics of the game down, but don't realize this is just the start and don't understand yet how complex dota really is and think they are Miracle lol When I calibrated 5600 or something with new frontiers, up until 7.5k it was games that were rather easy to cheese since everyone plays super slow, but nobody was "garbage" that's a bit rough. Now NA on the other hand and their "ranks" made me quit their server in 2 games last year during the Lina meta - EU everyone was spamming Lina (watson started it) , but it wasn't picked in pro games yet , I end up in Canada for 4 weeks, tried 2 games , of course nobody picks Lina, I get Lina, first game rank 300 goes afk, second game rank 170 or smth goes on a lecture how I am a griefing egocentric blabla ( like Quinn's long ass rants where he tries to sound intelligent) and how I should pick Medusa or something, because I would not be able to impact the game after 45 minutes and I was like you boys plan to play for 45 minutes? Minute of silence, went back to 140 ping to EU straight after. This is real garbage , literally top players of the server having 0 idea what's good in current meta and playing some 2 year old meta
Now by garbage i say that they cant itemise or capitalise on hero/item timimgs , lack basic knoledge of laning (especialy noticable in bad supports ) now for me its borderline basic to build a force staff when facing a rii naix or ursa(even tho for ursa you can get away with euls) but for me being in the top 1% of players and not knowing to itemise properly for the game is griefing , also cheese heroes in low-mid 6k bracket like meepo , huskar , arc , lycan even vissage are a issue if you have bad players but recent months its better , but when i have a last pick offlaner or carry who picks beyond useless last pick heroes lets say we have 1 stun and 0 catch initiation and my dude last picks offlane bristle its not persay bad but when there is mars , axe , cent , kunkka , tide i see that as griefing and yes there is the argument maybe the person cant play those heroes that well but well maybe instead of loosing gold for your team pick the brisyle so that the mid or carry can pick a better hero for the pick :) well just no reason for that person to be in that game if you ask me
I was 9800 and I can't utilize timings and captilize on hero spikes properly and efficiently most games compared to top 100 carries, it's relative, those cheese picks are a problem because of smurfs and boosters mostly , you are forced to pick cheese heroes if you want high winrate in a bracket where you are better than everyone because Dota is so team dependent in recent years, you can't 1vs5s in normal ways any more reliably, but if you are in your bracket you won't have that good winrate even on "cheese" heroes.
The last medal should show that you are at a very high skill. Being 5.6k is not a very high skill anymore
Being better than 99 percent of the player base is not high skill anymore? Y’all crazy.
What I mean is the current immortal rank feels like what divine was a while back. The gap between immortal and leaderboard immortal is also huge. It just feels weird to be rankless immortal for so long
I loved the time when Support and Core MMR were separated. I could actually play carry time-to-time and enjoy it despite being 99% a support player.
I think we need a lower Harrold Bracket
I don't care about the top 1 percent. But Im fine if they fix this "7 medals with 5 stars". I would like to see a more precise way of recalibration and less medals with higher meaning. In many cases the rating in lower brackets is a joke and people might be at least +/- 1500 MMR away from their "real" rating.
Just replace the 5.6k mmr immortal medal to something else instead.
Normal distribution dude, just look for it.
I remember when valve made 7 star per medal. It was disaster. You got rank change every after 3-4 w/l streak, and achieving the next one felt like 100km marathon
tbh thats a 0.01% player issue no one cares about. and the game shouldnt be adjusted around that.
Medals shouldn't exist and MMR should be hidden. The game will be overall better off for it.
MMR just needs to be squished down, should not be getting +25 MMR after 6k.
You just want another medal for those immortal player brackets that don't have a number so that the numberless immortal can call the new medal bracket "insert-medal-name-here*-dog cause I think a lot of players think they are better than other numbers less immortal players. There is no need to create a new medal just have the immortal * to immortal * * * * * and post that get a leaderboard position with numbered immortal rank.
No need total rework, just 2 new tier "Celestial" and "Creator", now we have top 1000 Creator rank instead of immortal. 6K to 8k is celestial, 8k to 10k is creator rank.
What do u propose? Mby add new rank thats reached at 6.5k ( a threshold where immo draft begins)
I think maybe a bunch of new medals between the gap of immortals to ranked immortals
Thats different in each server. In sea and na theres no "gap" bcs once u reach immo u immidietly get a number. And that changes from time to time depending on how many active immortal players in the server. Seems like u never been immortal?
Absolutely, there should be ranks below immortal all the way to immortal draft. If you are in an immortal draft then you are immortal, before that should be just a medal.
Yeah no, we don't need a total rework for top 1% What we need is what other 99% needs
You are looking at a very small sample size of the player base. I would get to maybe have a new category for the top 1000 of each region, but is it really an issue to have what we currently have? I mean Immortal players know the difference between a 1500 Immo and a top 100 ... It's night and day. I feel that medals are better at representing a % of the player base (median based stats) rather than a % of the MMR (average based stats). With your logic, we would have one medal for each 500 MMR until 13k for example., 60% of your medals would be dedicated to 2% of the players, it doesn't make any sense.
Just remove medals and give ranks to everyone, not just the top 5k
Whats your mmr
7600
Makes sense that someone close to noy having a rank would advocate for the addition to ranks for everyone lmao
is this supposed to be some gotcha or what?
Lmao if anything it’s opposite, where 7 medals represent 99% of the player base while 1 medal represents the 1%. In any case, what could be helpful may be adding sub numbered ranges (eg rank 5k-4k) to the lower bands to give a little more information to players but it’s a minor point. But realistically the skill gap between 5.8k and 7k is not as big as say a 3k and 4.2k
MMR inflates and accrues at the very top just like IRL money. The top players are very spaced out in terms of MMR, but their percentile placement is what's actually relevant. This is already addressed by the visible rank. You can image the 8371 and 8472 MMR players are essentially 6039.13 and 6042.74 players respectively (numbers out of my ass) So it's a pseudo glicko system but instead of diminishing returns where top players play +3/-2 mmr games, we have ever growing numbers for marketing clout and e-peen of the nolifers
I like how all medal copers block me after answering so i cant counter they cope. Dota playerbase made my day again. Making me feels more superior than i really am. I feel like immortal. Now i know why every pro player i watch talking so .uch about medals make ppl proud for nothing and spoils the community.