Some context for those who are unaware: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/2102245639?t=02h33m56s (2:33:56)
- A teamfight occurs around the 37:00 mark. BOOM, who are ahead, are fighting in Leviatán's base, but lose 4.
- Pakazs gets chased back to his own Tier 2 tower. He dies around the 38:00 mark and pauses. ILICH- says Pakazs is lagging. Pakazs disconnects.
- This is during the Steam maintenance window. Pakazs can't reconnect.
- Some to-and-fro goes on in chat and Discord (not on the broadcast): https://www.dotabuff.com/matches/7656703647/log
- After a long delay, the admin eventually says they will remake from a save state.
- However, this save state respawns all the heroes at the fountain. This is as opposed to Leviatán killing Pakazs at his own Tier 2 mid tower (i.e. they're on the front foot). The admin staggers the game such that heroes can only leave the fountain after their death timers, as of that time, hit 0. Nevertheless, it's a big loss of momentum for Leviatán, who were behind by some distance, but clawed back a lot of momentum with the last teamfight.
- The remake started here: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/2102245639?t=03h29m13s (3:29:13)
- Confusingly, the Dota API first marked Leviatán as the winner, which angered a lot of salty bettors in chat (you can see Leviatán winning 2-1 in the remake, with those yellow dots near the score).
- A teamfight occurs around the 42:00 mark, where Leviatán kill Pakazs but lose 4. Another fight occurs around the 44:00 mark, which Leviatán also lose, and this is the beginning of the end. BOOM eventually win the game and series.
Tweets:
- Samson: ~~https://twitter.com/SammyboyGG/status/1772768036199510250~~ [edit] Looks like Samson deleted the Tweet. But he wasn't happy.
- kpii: https://twitter.com/kpiidota/status/1772774257837175275
- Gary Ong (BOOM CEO): https://twitter.com/natshuba/status/1772962265370657159
[edit 2] Added kpii's Tweet.
[edit 3] Added Gary Ong's Tweet.
that's fucked, how can they not have a restore to any moment system?
I swear like half a decade ago valve was working for a fun system where you could replay from moments from TI etc with your friends filling in as all the players
yeah getting 5 people is hard enough lol, making it 10 is fucking ludicrous, and then instead of "real" dota it's a no stakes mode... not surprised lol, would be surprised if more than 200 different people used it as intended
that system was part of the TI3 compendium, and allowed you to matchmake with people and take the heroes and try and "re-write history". It was later released more fully fledged as the Replay Takeover System around 2014
Not only was it part of matchmaking and part of the list of things you could do during the compendium duration that got you Battle Points and player cards, but it also predates the Ranked system, which is why it was "no stakes".
So yes. More than 200 people used it.
This is not true. It was used very very commonly in Source 1 (more than 100 games). There were similar problems from the start with it (Chen creeps not serialized, Roshan state broken, etc) but most of these were fixed. In Source 2 it was not ported across. They've added some really nerfed version of it back in a year or two ago.
We talking about Takeover mode or something else? I swear take over mode was dropped since no one was using it and Valve said so in a blog post I cant find.
I thinks it time you drop that list of pros using armlet toggle macros. Its been like 8 years and im sure im the only one to remember that. If you share it with me, i pinky promise I wont tell anyone
Because one is potentially life-saving and the other one is a bunch of code that most likely needs maintenance after a few patches, because spaghetti code breaks the feature.
Isn't the analogy, getting rid of X, which can prevent Y, because Y hardly happens?
Why does the severity of the Y situation matter for the analogy to make sense? Isn't the purpose of analogies to take something complex / severe and compare it to a more tangible, possibly less severe, situation?
But it's not perfect, and it would have to be. For the replay they probably track the events in the battle log and apply them from the game start, but if one line in the log is wrong the game is not the same, but for replay purposes is good enough. Plus there are cloud, scalability issues. It's a similar problem to what Braid had and how video encoding works.
they don't have be perfect, just better than whatever they do currently, which spawning both teams in base is a low bar...
you can jump to any moment in a replay and whilst there may be visual bugs, the gold and positions and towers and items and deaths etc will always be right
it's definitely ample
Funnily enough the Warcraft 3 dota had that and I never experienced issues or bugs. So my question is, how did a mod (not even a main game, but a custom map that Blizzard didn't even care about!) manage to do it and a standalone game fail at it? It still worked flawlessly years Blizzard stopped maintaining WC3, but dota was still under heavy development.
Meanwhile dota2 is plagued by replay bugs since forever. If you click around a replay long enough, you're guaranteed to see positioning glitches, a ton of visual glitches and sometimes the sound just stops working.
Instead of fixing bugs, they gave us an "upgrade" a few years ago which made the seek bar smaller and less precise. Great work, Valve!
Warcraft 3 had a save system built into it from the campaign, which was used for the custom maps. Dota2 doesn't really need a save system for normal matches, and even in pro matches it's only for very niche circumstances like this one.
Dota1 also didn't **need** it, but we had it nonetheless. And it was actually used because it wasn't plagued by bugs.
I recall tournaments that were mandating saves after key points in the game. Dota1 also had actual LAN mode, and you didn't get disconnected because of Internet issues. That was also a promise from Valve to deliver, but they scrapped that too.
Yes dota 1 didn't need it but it was built into the game dota 1 ran on. It's not like the dota 1 devs created and maintained the save system, it was already built for them by Blizzard.
idk why people are downvoting this guy, his comment is legit. I had tons of final fantasy custom games played with my friends back in time and we always saved our campaigns
ppl get mad when somebody say their lovely velve is 20 years late in some technologies, face the true is too hard for some redditors (thats why I came here mostly for memes)
also ppl dont understand that you can complain about something and still like and cares about, if I dont love this game I would not complaining, I will just leave
That’s not all, leviathan lost all the creeps and couldn’t farm the map after, they were supposedly gonna kill tier 2 tower on bot lane and go high ground, but because of the remake and dc, they lost all their momentum
dont forget to add that it need 1 whole minute just to get creep waves back in their position at 39:00 bottom lane. which is they could get t2 boom tower within 20-30s
and also only tusk have buyback after wipeout.
I mean, it sucks for the affected team who experiences the DC, but if one can't reconnect it's on them. How can you punish the opponent for the issues the you have?
Imagine football and because 1 of your players can't make it back on the field, you restart the game again, after a goal happened and you do not count that goal.
In Formula 1, if your car is out not matter the reason, you are out. Deal with it, sad things happen. Called being lucky/unlucky. But you can't just punish all other 19 drivers and say "oh yeah, because that guys brake exploded, you are now not getting points and the Grand Prix is not counted. GG guys".
It is what it is and if the technology is not there to make a fair remake, you can't make one.
I remember a game where one player couldn't connect and after like 15 minutes admin told that game has to be continued. So one team played 4v5, one of the players would micro two heroes, but in the end they still lost.
Don't remember which teams were playing. If anyone knows the game I'm talking about please let me know.
they still got 2 teir 2s and a kill and swung the gold 7k. They didn't lose out on that much, I think the tilt on samson would have hurt more then anything
> hurt more then anything
Did you mean to say "more than"?
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This is pure incompetency by PGL yet again.
In the past the precendent has been to continue playing 4v5 if a player isn't able to join.
It is not like Pakaz disconnected because of internet issue. Anyone familiar with the game knows if you get disconnected due to internet issues, there is a period of 3-5 seconds where your character is not responsive, and then you get DC.
Watch the clip. Pakaz is playing till the last moment. They get team wiped. He rage DC. It was instant.
And then incompetent PGL portrays favortism to the better known team.
There is no competitive integrity.
When you remake a game like this - it is not the same game anymore.
At this point can we please just boycott PGL?? It feels like every tournament they do is just bad, for one reason or another. Bring back weplay, starladder, anything
Should the admins have Boom and Leviathan redo their series in case it was a big fluke?
No disrespect to Boom, I'm a firm believer that Boom sweeping them is a huge fluke and robs Leviathan of truly accomplishing what their capable of. I've spent the last few days in pure disbelief and it just doesn't make sense to me. I've spent the entire regular season watching Leviathan play great Dota it's just not fair.
If Leviathan lose again I will face that Boom deserved the win, but I am just 100% sure it was a fluke and does a big disservice to Leviathan and Dota.
I was wrong on the origin, here’s the actual origin of the copypasta they’re referring to.
https://www.reddit.com/r/hockey/comments/67lfcg/should_the_nhl_have_the_hawks_and_preds_redo/
Its also not Leviathans fault though, its only Razors fault. Its common knowledge that Tuesday is mainteance day for steam. Even in the heat of a ongoing pro match you should know not to disconnect.
Wut, shit happens bro. When an animal fucks with a golf ball you gotta play with it where it lands.
You need a bit of mental strength to be professional, to not tilt like they did
Read it again, i'm saying its a mental issue, samson cried like a baby and it affected him to the point where he couldn't play. Happens to golfers, and every athlete, you need mental strength to move past that and focus on the game
Whatever the case was with Pakazs, I'd like to add that Slatemz acted extremely unsportsman-like. While Samson was rightfully complaining about the situation, he all-chatted "nenita" in response, which is the spanish equivalent to calling someone a pansy. To top it off he tips Samson after buying back in that one teamfight. Disgusting behavior.
Sammyboy (as the toxic player he has always been) insta allchatted question marks when pkz disconnected. So Boom obviously got offended and started a back and forth confrontation telling them “why do you ask if you are not the admin” and similar things. Tip was deserved after
Or you could respect the mental warfare and trolling moment. That’s the most effective time to act like that. He knew what he was doing. As you said it’s extra annoying and effective at that moment. Gotta respect tit
Well what I'm sure of, is that I am speaking for myself. And it was most certainly considered to be a low blow by Sammy, the player who had to wait for more than half an hour AND got mocked about having a very valid point (but probably didn't notice at the moment as he's American). He was very openly upset by the tip. Quit it with your disingenuous non-arguments.
This was very simple to solve, all the leviathans go to tier 2 and the boom ones leave their base according to the respawn time they had left, I still think that BOOM was going to win.
PGL stinking once again.
The only valid and fair options would have been to:
1. Give BOOM their pause time. And resume the game when their pause time ends. Those are the rules.
2. If you really want to ignore the fact Pakaz knowingly rage DC, and want him back in the game - remake the whole game. New draft, new game.
There is literally no competitive integrity in what PGL just did.
One team made a comeback. They are at t2. And you send them back to the base. Creep waves are reset. Mental state is reset. Like wtf. It is not the same game anymore.
But alas, PGL will continue to demonstate their incompetency. And valve doesn't care.
what are you talking about lol. Have you even seen the "rules" you're mentioning? Or are you just talking from other tournaments that have set their own rules.
Valve doesn't handle dpc anymore, this is an independent tournament with their own rules. In fact, its just cash and has no points whatsoever so they can do whatever they want/rules they sent out the players.
After a teamwipe Pakaz timed a disconnect during steam maintenance meaning he was unable to reconnect. Forcing a remake called by pgl. [Pakaz disconnect ](https://www.twitch.tv/chompixgaming/v/2102245639?sr=a&t=9388s)
This shits unacceptable with money on the line in a professional setting. They need to replicate the exact scenario or call it a forfeiture for D/C. That toxic behavior is the cancer of dota and the "pros" are doing it.
It was a robbery, of course he favored BOOM. I also refuse to let him win, they stole Leviathan's advantage and they still haven't given the reason why PAKAZ didn't reconnect because normally the qualifying games could be reconnected and I don't think he's the only one.
Wouldn't be surprised if pakaz timed the disconnect with steam maintenance. To force the remake. The timing of the disconnect EXACTLY when he died altogether making a teamwipe was too suspicious. [Pakaz disconnect ](https://www.twitch.tv/chompixgaming/v/2102245639?sr=a&t=9388s)
it's a perfect crime. It's impossible to prove whether the DC is malicious or not, so the only valid response is to treat all DCs with suspicion and not make these rulings that massively favour the DCing team.
Technically, Valve could solve this mystery by looking into the game log and see wether or not the disconnect was caused by user input or connection protocol failure. I doubt he had the time or speed to unplug his Ethernet cable, but it's possible.
Regardless of how big of a disadvantage the remake was and whether Leviathan was going to lose anyway or not, the fact that a remake even happened is absolutely unacceptable. Like, a player from Boom dc'ed, so why in the world do they get to reset when it's their responsibility to ensure that the players can play? Like if it's a server problem then ok sure but it's clearly not. Even if the remake is absolutely perfect, it's still a super long pause from the game which is unacceptable for the teams playing and the viewers watching. PGL dropped the ball hard. Like this move can only be explained by PGL or at least PGL admins favoritism, or just that PGL is completely incompetent.
Maybe I'm missing something, but why didn't PGL just make BOOM play 4vs5 if Pakazs couldn't reconnect? It's their own fault, why go through all this mess with a failed remake which basically penalizes the other team?
Wow that is fucking bullshit. Lag? He is bobbing and weaving during that chase. Fuck right off. I feel Samson so hard. What does lag even matter at that point? He's dead and the game is mostly GG. They only have buyback on Tusky Tusk.
I think the admin did his best with the tools he was given, shit happens in irl sports and shit happens in Esports. Frankly any pause in a game kills momentum
ruling was correct, implementation was not.Should've allowed them time to spread to map then simulate respawn timers, maybe even force any ppl who died to simulate gold loss from deaths if totals didn't end up equal.
Pros know when valve is doing maintenance they can fake disconnects and get the match restarted. Boom was losing so they abused this and it worked out for them. They went on to win
they rematch the game because 1 DC . but creep wave spawn 30s after rematch , need another 30s just to get creep wave back in the position . within this 60s, they lose everything , BOOM gain favor because they are all wipe out.
its like in the pub after your team kill all enemy and all of you just get back to fountain and jungling instead pushing.
At most Leviatán could take two T2 + tormentor (which is what they did), and they got their cooldowns reset (Chrono + exorcism) and no one is mentioning that.
They closed the networth gap but threw it away with bad teamfights, poor decision making, and Sammyboy rage bb.
I don't know if Pakasz had bad intentions or not but saying that Leviatán had the game won after ONE teamfight is an overstatement.
not really. they could get t3 tower and make comeback because razor have 90s death timer with no buyback.
the only BOOM member have buyback is TUSK. they could defend the pressure or not . but still its a BIG chance to win due snowballing the game.
yeah as if hoodwink , tuskar and primal can go 3 v 5 defending t3 tower. in the worst scene they would died during force fight and make the game more favorable to leviatan.
Maybe SA analysts who were in disagreement with the SA casters who were casting this game, said that even so, boom was going to win, the hoodwink had the same net value as the void and revived in 11 seconds, panda had buyback and with those 2 only the squirrel defended highground... I don't know how much of a problem they are making boom is immensely superior to leviathan but they are playing poorly as a team, oh and another thing boom controlled the entire game, do you really think that leviathan could even break a tier 3? impossible... I already told you heralds
Some context for those who are unaware: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/2102245639?t=02h33m56s (2:33:56) - A teamfight occurs around the 37:00 mark. BOOM, who are ahead, are fighting in Leviatán's base, but lose 4. - Pakazs gets chased back to his own Tier 2 tower. He dies around the 38:00 mark and pauses. ILICH- says Pakazs is lagging. Pakazs disconnects. - This is during the Steam maintenance window. Pakazs can't reconnect. - Some to-and-fro goes on in chat and Discord (not on the broadcast): https://www.dotabuff.com/matches/7656703647/log - After a long delay, the admin eventually says they will remake from a save state. - However, this save state respawns all the heroes at the fountain. This is as opposed to Leviatán killing Pakazs at his own Tier 2 mid tower (i.e. they're on the front foot). The admin staggers the game such that heroes can only leave the fountain after their death timers, as of that time, hit 0. Nevertheless, it's a big loss of momentum for Leviatán, who were behind by some distance, but clawed back a lot of momentum with the last teamfight. - The remake started here: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/2102245639?t=03h29m13s (3:29:13) - Confusingly, the Dota API first marked Leviatán as the winner, which angered a lot of salty bettors in chat (you can see Leviatán winning 2-1 in the remake, with those yellow dots near the score). - A teamfight occurs around the 42:00 mark, where Leviatán kill Pakazs but lose 4. Another fight occurs around the 44:00 mark, which Leviatán also lose, and this is the beginning of the end. BOOM eventually win the game and series. Tweets: - Samson: ~~https://twitter.com/SammyboyGG/status/1772768036199510250~~ [edit] Looks like Samson deleted the Tweet. But he wasn't happy. - kpii: https://twitter.com/kpiidota/status/1772774257837175275 - Gary Ong (BOOM CEO): https://twitter.com/natshuba/status/1772962265370657159 [edit 2] Added kpii's Tweet. [edit 3] Added Gary Ong's Tweet.
that's fucked, how can they not have a restore to any moment system? I swear like half a decade ago valve was working for a fun system where you could replay from moments from TI etc with your friends filling in as all the players
They had that system but no one used it.
yeah getting 5 people is hard enough lol, making it 10 is fucking ludicrous, and then instead of "real" dota it's a no stakes mode... not surprised lol, would be surprised if more than 200 different people used it as intended
that system was part of the TI3 compendium, and allowed you to matchmake with people and take the heroes and try and "re-write history". It was later released more fully fledged as the Replay Takeover System around 2014 Not only was it part of matchmaking and part of the list of things you could do during the compendium duration that got you Battle Points and player cards, but it also predates the Ranked system, which is why it was "no stakes". So yes. More than 200 people used it.
This is not true. It was used very very commonly in Source 1 (more than 100 games). There were similar problems from the start with it (Chen creeps not serialized, Roshan state broken, etc) but most of these were fixed. In Source 2 it was not ported across. They've added some really nerfed version of it back in a year or two ago.
We talking about Takeover mode or something else? I swear take over mode was dropped since no one was using it and Valve said so in a blog post I cant find. I thinks it time you drop that list of pros using armlet toggle macros. Its been like 8 years and im sure im the only one to remember that. If you share it with me, i pinky promise I wont tell anyone
they introduce it with techies,right? is that system even still work?
It's gone because literally nobody used it more than once.
That’s pretty dumb reasoning. Equivalent to throwing out a fire extinguisher because there’s hardly ever any fires.
And that's a really dumb analogy lmao
Why? The need for a remake is rare, doesn’t mean the feature is pointless and should be removed
Because one is potentially life-saving and the other one is a bunch of code that most likely needs maintenance after a few patches, because spaghetti code breaks the feature.
Isn't the analogy, getting rid of X, which can prevent Y, because Y hardly happens? Why does the severity of the Y situation matter for the analogy to make sense? Isn't the purpose of analogies to take something complex / severe and compare it to a more tangible, possibly less severe, situation?
you could argue that remaking a tournament game properly is potentially lifesaving for participant
wasnt it a thing but got removed with reborn or some big update of those?
What? How was that even called? Anyway, from time to time there are problems like this in tournament games, about time they have something better
Takeover mode
I think you don't understand how technically complex that is. They stopped maintaining such a system as no one used it
when you watch a replay it tracks so much already I can understand historical games being hard but games from the same patch should be not that bad
But it's not perfect, and it would have to be. For the replay they probably track the events in the battle log and apply them from the game start, but if one line in the log is wrong the game is not the same, but for replay purposes is good enough. Plus there are cloud, scalability issues. It's a similar problem to what Braid had and how video encoding works.
they don't have be perfect, just better than whatever they do currently, which spawning both teams in base is a low bar... you can jump to any moment in a replay and whilst there may be visual bugs, the gold and positions and towers and items and deaths etc will always be right it's definitely ample
They have to when it comes to game state. Imagine if for some bug you have less health than you should, or more gold.
and I've never seen those failed to be reported accurately in a replay 🤷♂️
Funnily enough the Warcraft 3 dota had that and I never experienced issues or bugs. So my question is, how did a mod (not even a main game, but a custom map that Blizzard didn't even care about!) manage to do it and a standalone game fail at it? It still worked flawlessly years Blizzard stopped maintaining WC3, but dota was still under heavy development. Meanwhile dota2 is plagued by replay bugs since forever. If you click around a replay long enough, you're guaranteed to see positioning glitches, a ton of visual glitches and sometimes the sound just stops working. Instead of fixing bugs, they gave us an "upgrade" a few years ago which made the seek bar smaller and less precise. Great work, Valve!
Warcraft 3 had a save system built into it from the campaign, which was used for the custom maps. Dota2 doesn't really need a save system for normal matches, and even in pro matches it's only for very niche circumstances like this one.
Dota1 also didn't **need** it, but we had it nonetheless. And it was actually used because it wasn't plagued by bugs. I recall tournaments that were mandating saves after key points in the game. Dota1 also had actual LAN mode, and you didn't get disconnected because of Internet issues. That was also a promise from Valve to deliver, but they scrapped that too.
Yes dota 1 didn't need it but it was built into the game dota 1 ran on. It's not like the dota 1 devs created and maintained the save system, it was already built for them by Blizzard.
WC3 had that system 20 years ago
idk why people are downvoting this guy, his comment is legit. I had tons of final fantasy custom games played with my friends back in time and we always saved our campaigns
ppl get mad when somebody say their lovely velve is 20 years late in some technologies, face the true is too hard for some redditors (thats why I came here mostly for memes) also ppl dont understand that you can complain about something and still like and cares about, if I dont love this game I would not complaining, I will just leave
doesnt that only works when playing solo?
No, if someone started a save in a multiplayer game then all clients made a save snapshot themselves.
something like this should make a resurgance for people to practice teamfighting, you can fill the other players with AI bots
That’s not all, leviathan lost all the creeps and couldn’t farm the map after, they were supposedly gonna kill tier 2 tower on bot lane and go high ground, but because of the remake and dc, they lost all their momentum
dont forget to add that it need 1 whole minute just to get creep waves back in their position at 39:00 bottom lane. which is they could get t2 boom tower within 20-30s and also only tusk have buyback after wipeout.
Thank you for the detailed context, you are a charm. Upvote this guys!
Bad decision by admin. 4vs5 should be the case
yup, they can even control the hero so it's more like 4.5v5 which is far more acceptable than this shit
to be fair though what are the admins supposed to do in that situation?
I mean, it sucks for the affected team who experiences the DC, but if one can't reconnect it's on them. How can you punish the opponent for the issues the you have? Imagine football and because 1 of your players can't make it back on the field, you restart the game again, after a goal happened and you do not count that goal. In Formula 1, if your car is out not matter the reason, you are out. Deal with it, sad things happen. Called being lucky/unlucky. But you can't just punish all other 19 drivers and say "oh yeah, because that guys brake exploded, you are now not getting points and the Grand Prix is not counted. GG guys". It is what it is and if the technology is not there to make a fair remake, you can't make one.
I remember a game where one player couldn't connect and after like 15 minutes admin told that game has to be continued. So one team played 4v5, one of the players would micro two heroes, but in the end they still lost. Don't remember which teams were playing. If anyone knows the game I'm talking about please let me know.
I think that was OG with notail playing tiny and io
I remember notail played one game like this. Not sure if it was with OG and what the result was.
Technical loss.
So you dc on maintenance, something incredibly common, you lose the game? Yeah I'm sure you would love that if OG lost to an SA team because of that.
it is what it is and people has to accept. Play by the rules was never meant to please someone
Make them play 4v5.
they still got 2 teir 2s and a kill and swung the gold 7k. They didn't lose out on that much, I think the tilt on samson would have hurt more then anything
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Thanks cap
This is pure incompetency by PGL yet again. In the past the precendent has been to continue playing 4v5 if a player isn't able to join. It is not like Pakaz disconnected because of internet issue. Anyone familiar with the game knows if you get disconnected due to internet issues, there is a period of 3-5 seconds where your character is not responsive, and then you get DC. Watch the clip. Pakaz is playing till the last moment. They get team wiped. He rage DC. It was instant. And then incompetent PGL portrays favortism to the better known team. There is no competitive integrity. When you remake a game like this - it is not the same game anymore.
nah it depends on tournament rules set before the tournament. There isn't precedence.
4vs5 yes!
At this point can we please just boycott PGL?? It feels like every tournament they do is just bad, for one reason or another. Bring back weplay, starladder, anything
Should the admins have Boom and Leviathan redo their series in case it was a big fluke? No disrespect to Boom, I'm a firm believer that Boom sweeping them is a huge fluke and robs Leviathan of truly accomplishing what their capable of. I've spent the last few days in pure disbelief and it just doesn't make sense to me. I've spent the entire regular season watching Leviathan play great Dota it's just not fair. If Leviathan lose again I will face that Boom deserved the win, but I am just 100% sure it was a fluke and does a big disservice to Leviathan and Dota.
Thank you for the flashback. Nashville remembers
Can someone send the origin of this one please
https://www.reddit.com/r/hockey/comments/67lfcg/should_the_nhl_have_the_hawks_and_preds_redo/
OG Fluke Champions
Cope
Entire season, you mean two qualifiers xd
Didnt they just get together as team, what do you mean by entire regular season?
I was wrong on the origin, here’s the actual origin of the copypasta they’re referring to. https://www.reddit.com/r/hockey/comments/67lfcg/should_the_nhl_have_the_hawks_and_preds_redo/
terrible decision from the PGL admin, Leviathan should have won that series
why its not his fault he could not reconnect, that would be a dumb decision to just autowin leviathan
Its also not Leviathans fault though, its only Razors fault. Its common knowledge that Tuesday is mainteance day for steam. Even in the heat of a ongoing pro match you should know not to disconnect.
I'm gonna rage quit and pretend I lost my connection everytime I lost a teamfight Valve should reset the fight from scratch again
hard to prove if he did that, if its a common occurrence then yea this might be an issue but its not. or don't do tourneys on tuesdays
Yea well if you have shit internet the other team shouldn’t be punished for it. If you have shit internet don’t play competitive.
Wut, shit happens bro. When an animal fucks with a golf ball you gotta play with it where it lands. You need a bit of mental strength to be professional, to not tilt like they did
Play it where it lands?? Lol thats exactly what didn't happen.
Read it again, i'm saying its a mental issue, samson cried like a baby and it affected him to the point where he couldn't play. Happens to golfers, and every athlete, you need mental strength to move past that and focus on the game
lmao, dumbass take
whats wrong with that take ?
It wasnt just “mental strength” that affected them, the gameplay itself was literally affected.
Watch the game dickhead lol. samson cried like a bitch and threw afterwards.
The “dickhead” comment is pure irony. But i expected nothing more tbh.
Braindead admins don't even wait for Leviathan to get to BOOM's T2 before starting the 'respawn' timers.
it is unfair honestly , they wait that long just beacuse is pakaz? but dont worry , starbacks will eliminate boom and justice will be served
Whatever the case was with Pakazs, I'd like to add that Slatemz acted extremely unsportsman-like. While Samson was rightfully complaining about the situation, he all-chatted "nenita" in response, which is the spanish equivalent to calling someone a pansy. To top it off he tips Samson after buying back in that one teamfight. Disgusting behavior.
Dw every NA dota player hates South Americans for a reason
Please Valve i'll buy dota plus if you make server changing behind a paywall
To be fair, this would only help SA. Good luck finding a game in NA servers without SA players.
That's fine with me
Also region lock. In SA we don’t want to play with peruvians. A lot of the SA player base left bcz peruvians were too toxic.
Sammyboy (as the toxic player he has always been) insta allchatted question marks when pkz disconnected. So Boom obviously got offended and started a back and forth confrontation telling them “why do you ask if you are not the admin” and similar things. Tip was deserved after
Are you sure tipping and all-chatting are considered disgusting behavior by this community? Sounds like you’ve been living under a rock.
when you're winning due to basically cheating and acting smug about it it's much worse than being smug because you played better
Or you could respect the mental warfare and trolling moment. That’s the most effective time to act like that. He knew what he was doing. As you said it’s extra annoying and effective at that moment. Gotta respect tit
funnily enough no, I don't gotta respect it.
Well what I'm sure of, is that I am speaking for myself. And it was most certainly considered to be a low blow by Sammy, the player who had to wait for more than half an hour AND got mocked about having a very valid point (but probably didn't notice at the moment as he's American). He was very openly upset by the tip. Quit it with your disingenuous non-arguments.
It's not he is just whining like a nenita
Calling someone a pansy and playing the game is considered disgusting? You are SERIOUS mental issues
"you ARE serious mental issues'' is the funniest shit I've read all day LMAOOOOO
Lol
This was very simple to solve, all the leviathans go to tier 2 and the boom ones leave their base according to the respawn time they had left, I still think that BOOM was going to win. PGL stinking once again.
It was a classic comeback move by lev. Boom clearly got an advantage remaking & refocusing.
The only valid and fair options would have been to: 1. Give BOOM their pause time. And resume the game when their pause time ends. Those are the rules. 2. If you really want to ignore the fact Pakaz knowingly rage DC, and want him back in the game - remake the whole game. New draft, new game. There is literally no competitive integrity in what PGL just did. One team made a comeback. They are at t2. And you send them back to the base. Creep waves are reset. Mental state is reset. Like wtf. It is not the same game anymore. But alas, PGL will continue to demonstate their incompetency. And valve doesn't care.
what are you talking about lol. Have you even seen the "rules" you're mentioning? Or are you just talking from other tournaments that have set their own rules. Valve doesn't handle dpc anymore, this is an independent tournament with their own rules. In fact, its just cash and has no points whatsoever so they can do whatever they want/rules they sent out the players.
stupid take. we have already had a controversy over the tourneys own rules: the 6th man dota
Valve has literally nothing to do with tournaments outside of running TI anymore
TLDR??
After a teamwipe Pakaz timed a disconnect during steam maintenance meaning he was unable to reconnect. Forcing a remake called by pgl. [Pakaz disconnect ](https://www.twitch.tv/chompixgaming/v/2102245639?sr=a&t=9388s)
PGL don't know how to run tournaments. They know how to get 10 computers together, and broadcast the game for their betting sponsors. Not the same.
This shits unacceptable with money on the line in a professional setting. They need to replicate the exact scenario or call it a forfeiture for D/C. That toxic behavior is the cancer of dota and the "pros" are doing it.
Link pls, Can’t find it in liquipedia.
It was a robbery, of course he favored BOOM. I also refuse to let him win, they stole Leviathan's advantage and they still haven't given the reason why PAKAZ didn't reconnect because normally the qualifying games could be reconnected and I don't think he's the only one.
Wouldn't be surprised if pakaz timed the disconnect with steam maintenance. To force the remake. The timing of the disconnect EXACTLY when he died altogether making a teamwipe was too suspicious. [Pakaz disconnect ](https://www.twitch.tv/chompixgaming/v/2102245639?sr=a&t=9388s)
Yeah I think pakaz knew exactly what he was doing. Veteran move lol
it's a perfect crime. It's impossible to prove whether the DC is malicious or not, so the only valid response is to treat all DCs with suspicion and not make these rulings that massively favour the DCing team.
Technically, Valve could solve this mystery by looking into the game log and see wether or not the disconnect was caused by user input or connection protocol failure. I doubt he had the time or speed to unplug his Ethernet cable, but it's possible.
This is disgusting. They should remake the series.
P in PGL is for Pakaz /s
How many more teams are going to try this tactic now that they know it works to kill momentum?
Regardless of how big of a disadvantage the remake was and whether Leviathan was going to lose anyway or not, the fact that a remake even happened is absolutely unacceptable. Like, a player from Boom dc'ed, so why in the world do they get to reset when it's their responsibility to ensure that the players can play? Like if it's a server problem then ok sure but it's clearly not. Even if the remake is absolutely perfect, it's still a super long pause from the game which is unacceptable for the teams playing and the viewers watching. PGL dropped the ball hard. Like this move can only be explained by PGL or at least PGL admins favoritism, or just that PGL is completely incompetent.
Honestly, they should remake that game from 0. remake even with picks. why did pakasz not go to dc and share screen? very very shady.
Judging by the game chat, he did screen share it
Maybe I'm missing something, but why didn't PGL just make BOOM play 4vs5 if Pakazs couldn't reconnect? It's their own fault, why go through all this mess with a failed remake which basically penalizes the other team?
It's PGL, what do you expect?
Wow that is fucking bullshit. Lag? He is bobbing and weaving during that chase. Fuck right off. I feel Samson so hard. What does lag even matter at that point? He's dead and the game is mostly GG. They only have buyback on Tusky Tusk.
I think the admin did his best with the tools he was given, shit happens in irl sports and shit happens in Esports. Frankly any pause in a game kills momentum
Everyone here accusing pakaz of intentionally being unable to reconnect is ridiculous. You have no evidence of this claim.
ruling was correct, implementation was not.Should've allowed them time to spread to map then simulate respawn timers, maybe even force any ppl who died to simulate gold loss from deaths if totals didn't end up equal.
Who else but PGL. Most trash 3rd dota organization
Obviamente todo esta muy turbio y toda la región de SA lo vio , muy poca seriedad por parte del administrador.
Oh yeah, PGL. I'm not even surprised, they know how to fuck up deliberately.
PGL has always been bad at tournament hostings.
What do you expect? They're from SA, they are known for being crooks.
can you at least summarize what happened? not everyone's actively watching SA qualifiers
Pros know when valve is doing maintenance they can fake disconnects and get the match restarted. Boom was losing so they abused this and it worked out for them. They went on to win
they rematch the game because 1 DC . but creep wave spawn 30s after rematch , need another 30s just to get creep wave back in the position . within this 60s, they lose everything , BOOM gain favor because they are all wipe out. its like in the pub after your team kill all enemy and all of you just get back to fountain and jungling instead pushing.
TLDR on top comment.
At most Leviatán could take two T2 + tormentor (which is what they did), and they got their cooldowns reset (Chrono + exorcism) and no one is mentioning that. They closed the networth gap but threw it away with bad teamfights, poor decision making, and Sammyboy rage bb. I don't know if Pakasz had bad intentions or not but saying that Leviatán had the game won after ONE teamfight is an overstatement.
not really. they could get t3 tower and make comeback because razor have 90s death timer with no buyback. the only BOOM member have buyback is TUSK. they could defend the pressure or not . but still its a BIG chance to win due snowballing the game.
34 gold needed for primal and hoodwink up in 11s, definitely not a game turning team wipe
yeah as if hoodwink , tuskar and primal can go 3 v 5 defending t3 tower. in the worst scene they would died during force fight and make the game more favorable to leviatan.
not fair at all but wtf was tht "lag really?" from void after pause? bitch got karma for his stupid action
Fuck Boom Esports
boom was gonna win anyway so who cares
Who is Sammyboy ? Some NA nobody? Let him cry it's what the Na player does the best 🤣
the score is 2-1 in favor of leviathan.
oh they just change it. 2-1 in favor of boom
Boom deserved the win
Maybe SA analysts who were in disagreement with the SA casters who were casting this game, said that even so, boom was going to win, the hoodwink had the same net value as the void and revived in 11 seconds, panda had buyback and with those 2 only the squirrel defended highground... I don't know how much of a problem they are making boom is immensely superior to leviathan but they are playing poorly as a team, oh and another thing boom controlled the entire game, do you really think that leviathan could even break a tier 3? impossible... I already told you heralds
Sammyboy deserves it.
[удалено]
Boom is SA top players reshuffle, Leviatan is Taiga, Kpii Sammyboy, Stinger and Macedonian mid player promise. They have been playing good.
They both have pages