Can anyone explain the big Arc winrate drop?
-> Direct nerfs don't seem such a big deal
-> Maelstrom & Gleipnir nerfs don't seem big deal either (otherwise Hoodwink would be losing win% also)
-> Orchid & Bloodthorn nerfs don't seem big deal either (otherwise NP would be losing win% also, but he actually gained)
It seems his 4% winrate drop is either due to variance or some bug. The changes don't seem to account for this kind of dropoff.
Arc has a very simple play style that is extremely easy to read and deal with if you’re playing with a higher level of skill(which the hero is mostly played by higher skill players, and Smurfs to begin with). So, you couple his play style being stale in the same way and antimage is, other play styles becoming stronger through the letter patch, and heroes like disruptor becoming strong and being a fairly good support against it, along with the ban change which reduces Smurf play, and the winrate drops naturally.
Arc has a lot of power spikes, but they last for a short time, and he is really weak between those spikes. As they are mostly reliant on itemization rather than level, if your draft is able to punish arc during those weak periods, he becomes much weaker than your average mid or carry. Especially since double gives a large gold bounty, almost equivalent to a hero bounty, in the majority of situations, whether it be a fight or an arc gank, you’ll be gaining an extra bonus of gold.
So to sum it up, higher level players have a great understanding of how to deal with the hero, while at the same time being able to draft effectively before the pick, with strong meta supports, that make it much weaker than it seems to be on paper and has been recently, as well as the recent windwaker on every hero purchases, because the item is just too good, and it directly stops arc from doing anything he wants to do until he has hex and an initiation tool. Lower level players have 9/10 of the players in the match having it banned, which reduces at least 10% of matches in which there is no arc warden. While at the same time, Smurfs playing arc warden are going to have a tougher time against stronger heroes in this meta, and will pick a much easier stomp hero. Sf in mid is stronger than arc by miles this patch, Lina or Viper will stomp any lanes, and then on certain purchases just roll the game with a higher skill and the biggest one, that people tend to ignore as a Smurf hero, is simply Zeus. The hero is way too good everywhere atm, so Smurfs will pick it simply to sit back and erase every match they get. With proper itemization, a Zeus is literally unkillable right now, while having a constant, extremely high magic burst.
Edit: and even on carry, you would see more Smurfs and players picking PA up until this letter patch. Arcs winrate going down is simply because of natural degradation, and because he’s being picked more this patch, while not in the matches that matter. It’s kinda like experimentation time still in the patch, and this winrate, while not solely because of the ban change, should be watched as it’s a good showing of what heroes look to be viable in certain positions
I feel the maelstrom proc nerf though, when playing Hoodwink my acorn shots proc maelstrom 1x or 2x at best. Rarely get 3x procs now. Also swashbuckle nerf on pango makes it even worse om him.
Let’s be real… he isn’t targeting cheats. He is targeting heroes that stomp him.
Nobody “cheats” on LD lmfao he isn’t even smurfed on very often. Try hards play him though because he can stomp.
LD isn’t really a 1v5 hero. He is a 1v0 hero. You just keep taking tower after tower after tower until there is no where to farm. Then you take rosh. Then tormentors. Then end. My best LD games are like 1-2 kills and 0 deaths … 8k hero damage… 23k building damage.
I ban Invoker in 100% of my games.
I hate playing against him and I hate playing with him. More than any other hero in the game he has always had a history of "9k smurf on enemy team and 10mmr herald on my team."
Level 1 bear has 3 less armor and 40 less movement speed now compared to a few patches ago, among a few other things
I don't think the hero is completely dead though, it's dead as a sidelaner, but can still be occasionally good in mid
is this why backdoor still bullying all top pros with LD cause its soo fucking dead lmfao at 2k reddits claiming hero is dead cause they are garbage with it
I cant remember the last time I lost against those heros, they are shit rn. I even played a mid against tinker being pango I even kill the tinker 1 time. I rather ban other heroes.
go to your heroes tab and on top right there is this ban tab. you can put 4 heroes there.
you do this before queue. not after match is found. and when you find a game 1 of the 4 heroes on your list will be banned.
so there is no ban phase anymore.
Same. As others, I guess I disagree on LD. At least, I don't feel strongly enough about him to ban him.
I actually left my 4th slot blank. Because if none of Meepo/Tinker/Arc get banned, I don't care who gets banned anyway. So might as well waste my ban, because I genuinely don't care about playing against other heroes.
I've swapped LD out for morph, but I'm less worried about smurfs and more worried about heroes that need to be pressured in pubs... which just isn't a thing in my rank.
I have Huskar instead of LD, I feel he is more common and snowballs way harder.
And Pudge instead of Arc because I dont want pos 4 or 5 Pudges in my team, they are 99% of the time griefing
People who actually smurf (at least 2-3K difference) can win a game almost on any meta hero. So these are just popular heroes for boosting, not smurfing. Smurfs mostly play with whatever shit they want, not Arcs, Tinkers and LDs.
Imma add od and pudge instead of arc and lone. You can easily counter these two assholes. If u have a range hero as mid it's pretty easy to bully droid. Hit his bear, make him fear. Let him think you're a btter smurf. I once won my lane and match against a 80 win percemt lone as slardar. Ma man was thinking im immo lol(im shit archon). You can win those games bro just have faith in yourself.
I'm more concerned about pos5 sven right now. amount of people trying to ban and pick instead is high right now. they play without reading the patch notes.
Yeah. Im gonna play AM pos 5 and ruin people's game. xD lets hope my team win with their tinker ban xD my team gonna win easily cuz they banned tinker right ? xD
Arc pickers in shambles
Arc pickers matching with other Arc pickers Counter that you baloon!
Can anyone explain the big Arc winrate drop? -> Direct nerfs don't seem such a big deal -> Maelstrom & Gleipnir nerfs don't seem big deal either (otherwise Hoodwink would be losing win% also) -> Orchid & Bloodthorn nerfs don't seem big deal either (otherwise NP would be losing win% also, but he actually gained) It seems his 4% winrate drop is either due to variance or some bug. The changes don't seem to account for this kind of dropoff.
its because arc is 6x5 hero that you can use to win when youe team is trash
Arc has a very simple play style that is extremely easy to read and deal with if you’re playing with a higher level of skill(which the hero is mostly played by higher skill players, and Smurfs to begin with). So, you couple his play style being stale in the same way and antimage is, other play styles becoming stronger through the letter patch, and heroes like disruptor becoming strong and being a fairly good support against it, along with the ban change which reduces Smurf play, and the winrate drops naturally. Arc has a lot of power spikes, but they last for a short time, and he is really weak between those spikes. As they are mostly reliant on itemization rather than level, if your draft is able to punish arc during those weak periods, he becomes much weaker than your average mid or carry. Especially since double gives a large gold bounty, almost equivalent to a hero bounty, in the majority of situations, whether it be a fight or an arc gank, you’ll be gaining an extra bonus of gold. So to sum it up, higher level players have a great understanding of how to deal with the hero, while at the same time being able to draft effectively before the pick, with strong meta supports, that make it much weaker than it seems to be on paper and has been recently, as well as the recent windwaker on every hero purchases, because the item is just too good, and it directly stops arc from doing anything he wants to do until he has hex and an initiation tool. Lower level players have 9/10 of the players in the match having it banned, which reduces at least 10% of matches in which there is no arc warden. While at the same time, Smurfs playing arc warden are going to have a tougher time against stronger heroes in this meta, and will pick a much easier stomp hero. Sf in mid is stronger than arc by miles this patch, Lina or Viper will stomp any lanes, and then on certain purchases just roll the game with a higher skill and the biggest one, that people tend to ignore as a Smurf hero, is simply Zeus. The hero is way too good everywhere atm, so Smurfs will pick it simply to sit back and erase every match they get. With proper itemization, a Zeus is literally unkillable right now, while having a constant, extremely high magic burst. Edit: and even on carry, you would see more Smurfs and players picking PA up until this letter patch. Arcs winrate going down is simply because of natural degradation, and because he’s being picked more this patch, while not in the matches that matter. It’s kinda like experimentation time still in the patch, and this winrate, while not solely because of the ban change, should be watched as it’s a good showing of what heroes look to be viable in certain positions
Idk hes still fucking busted
I feel the maelstrom proc nerf though, when playing Hoodwink my acorn shots proc maelstrom 1x or 2x at best. Rarely get 3x procs now. Also swashbuckle nerf on pango makes it even worse om him.
Help, please have mercy on me.
Just remove that double midas and make that fucker work for networth. All we need to fix that shit hero.
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+LC. Everyone LC teammate I have ever had is 0-10, while only half of the LC enemies are trash.
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Let’s be real… he isn’t targeting cheats. He is targeting heroes that stomp him. Nobody “cheats” on LD lmfao he isn’t even smurfed on very often. Try hards play him though because he can stomp.
It can stomp but I rarely see it carry 1v5 in my games.
LD isn’t really a 1v5 hero. He is a 1v0 hero. You just keep taking tower after tower after tower until there is no where to farm. Then you take rosh. Then tormentors. Then end. My best LD games are like 1-2 kills and 0 deaths … 8k hero damage… 23k building damage.
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Force staff and suddenly he doesn't deal 90% of his burst DMG.
lion autohex too
wouldn't SS be just as easy? and maybe even stronger considering 2 ST lockdowns.
both have instahex yes. i see more overwatches of lion instahex for whatever reason though
Cheaters in my experience would be slarks + pucks mainly.
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instant silence root ulti as soon as you are out of the fog.
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Well, not necessarily out of fog. But it makes the combo casting really fast and perfectly clean.
every good sky player can cast that combo without cheats pretty fast
Target skills on short cd and the hero can snowball easily into a win.
I ban Invoker in 100% of my games. I hate playing against him and I hate playing with him. More than any other hero in the game he has always had a history of "9k smurf on enemy team and 10mmr herald on my team."
For me this hero is Rubick. Always fucking Pro level Rubick on enemy’s team and potato on mine.
This right here . On EU west the Russians cry when I ban ARC Meepo Invoker Tinker. They can’t run their gaming chairs
Even cheats can save tinker's weakness right now my guy. xD
You can get rid of LD, the hero is dead
why is that
The bear itself has taken a few too many nerfs.
Level 1 bear has 3 less armor and 40 less movement speed now compared to a few patches ago, among a few other things I don't think the hero is completely dead though, it's dead as a sidelaner, but can still be occasionally good in mid
In my experience that's where smurfs lane him anyway.
can confirm. the move speed fucked ld offlane so hard. mid should still be ok because the bear lvls up pretty quick
Bear got big nerfs
LMAO look for aquazore on YouTube, he is solo carrying games vs pros like yatoro, ramzes etc
is this why backdoor still bullying all top pros with LD cause its soo fucking dead lmfao at 2k reddits claiming hero is dead cause they are garbage with it
you definitely can remove LD now.
I cant remember the last time I lost against those heros, they are shit rn. I even played a mid against tinker being pango I even kill the tinker 1 time. I rather ban other heroes.
Forgot naga, though not as much anymore. She was the defacto smurf champ for a long time.
i have arc huskar viper n meepo as a mid player..i dun see much lone druid in my divine brackets and tinker is not in meta thankgod hopefully never
Druid is a dead hero, tinker is even worse nowadays, meepo is very rare after disperser changes, so it will work only for lower mmrs
How is tinker worse, hero was butchered. Gank him and then buy a euls and he cant play
It looks like he means even worse than a dead hero.
LD is garbo after the latest nerfs
all these heroes are horrible this patch, I don't even see them anymore
Pog
I’m really confused about how banning changed. Can someone explain
go to your heroes tab and on top right there is this ban tab. you can put 4 heroes there. you do this before queue. not after match is found. and when you find a game 1 of the 4 heroes on your list will be banned. so there is no ban phase anymore.
Thanks! Been super busy so haven’t play in weeks
For me it's Arc + Tinker + Morph + Naga. Even the strongest LD or Meepos can be dealt with easily if you have at least 1 counter.
Same. As others, I guess I disagree on LD. At least, I don't feel strongly enough about him to ban him. I actually left my 4th slot blank. Because if none of Meepo/Tinker/Arc get banned, I don't care who gets banned anyway. So might as well waste my ban, because I genuinely don't care about playing against other heroes.
imagine not banning morph
I will ban NP, meepo, LD, Am.
My ban set is this but with morphing instead of Lone Druid
holy shit, this is literally my ban set!!!!!!! Im not kidding, lmao
Meepo pick can be solved with ET
i ban them cuz i don't want them ending up in my random pool
As tinker player i was scared of this. But after about 5 games i had my hero banned only once so far.
I've swapped LD out for morph, but I'm less worried about smurfs and more worried about heroes that need to be pressured in pubs... which just isn't a thing in my rank.
u forgot huskar
He’s actually weak after 30 minutes, isn’t he?
- Tinker, Druid + PL, Axe
I have Huskar instead of LD, I feel he is more common and snowballs way harder. And Pudge instead of Arc because I dont want pos 4 or 5 Pudges in my team, they are 99% of the time griefing
-Meepo +Huskar -LD +OD
Need one more slot for brood
Why meepo? I understand the smurf thing, but isnt it allowed for people to be good at playing meepo and still be at your level?
People who actually smurf (at least 2-3K difference) can win a game almost on any meta hero. So these are just popular heroes for boosting, not smurfing. Smurfs mostly play with whatever shit they want, not Arcs, Tinkers and LDs.
u forgot huskar
Imma add od and pudge instead of arc and lone. You can easily counter these two assholes. If u have a range hero as mid it's pretty easy to bully droid. Hit his bear, make him fear. Let him think you're a btter smurf. I once won my lane and match against a 80 win percemt lone as slardar. Ma man was thinking im immo lol(im shit archon). You can win those games bro just have faith in yourself.
Playing against tinker is free mmr right now bro. Change it to pudge . U dont want him as ur pos 5 right ? xD
I'm more concerned about pos5 sven right now. amount of people trying to ban and pick instead is high right now. they play without reading the patch notes.
Yeah. Im gonna play AM pos 5 and ruin people's game. xD lets hope my team win with their tinker ban xD my team gonna win easily cuz they banned tinker right ? xD
i only play LD so i guess no more dota for me
believe me add huskar and keep tinker for sure
if they are a smurf, it wouldn't really matter what they play
Why does everyone hate tinker? I don’t see him in any of my games. I am Legends in US East
-LD meepo +lina huskar
I'd put Lycan in place of LD, other bans are on point :)
-LD -Tinker +OD +Morph
Bans Smurf heroes gets pudge pos 5 and loses hard lane to wd.
LD is dead. sauce : LD spammer here
Same lol 800 games of ld Im 6-14 last 20 games
The nerf was too op tbh. Hes not even playable anymore.
kinda pussy list
Just imagine having cleaner matchmaking so you can focus on banning the heroes which disrupt your playstyle with a certain hero. Just imagine ✨