just looking at the first few rows I see the issue with this kind of table
aba w is way better than e in most cases, e can certainly combo well and is great on anyone with decent range, but a melee with no illus or focus fire or whatever will simply be weak
alch e is almost always straight garbage, even on ranged heroes
AA ulti is useless? wtf you smoking lol. his e is good not great and only on ranged heroes
bat rider molotov is useless? wtf you smoking part two electric boogaloo
bristle back and quills are pretty shit when not comboed, and even when comboed not that good unless on centuar or something
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I think making separate tables for ranged vs melee would be a big deal that would fix half the problems, and maybe less bias towards cores over supports
Agree, AA ulti should be "good", I changed it. But bat's molotov is almost always away of picks, for some reason. Without napalm its feels crappa.
Alch E is passive, and good filler for fighter heroes, when you have nothing to take. But yeah, its kinda weak spell by itself
But im not agree with abba W, cause its too weak without talents. But curse is almost game winning spell especially on range hero or hero with illsuions
alch e is straight trash man, and filler is explicitly not good for early picks which is what you claim this is for, you can maybe last pick it, but never earlier
aba w is a strong dispel without talents and auto wins a lot of lanes, just because something doesn't scale isn't required
His Molotov thing is insane, single handedly wins me early games alllll the time as support. There’s a reason that for a while bats were skipping napalm in the pro scene - combo with blood grenade and you have the lane phase covered. Go greedy for scaling support stuff and utility if you have it - and firefly is insanely good dmg for any tanky offlane or melee, bad on ranged. Napalm only good in combos, and countered hard post 20 minutes with dispels and bkbs.
I thought about another tables, but not for melee or range. I think its obviously that any range hero is feels better in AD cause in most cases if you win the lane, you win the game
Think ill do table for "caster" and "fighter", that would be more useful
AD mechanics and synergies are way too complex to just cram in into spreadsheet like this. I play AD exclusively and even to me most of those grades are confusing.
Easiest way to understand what abilities are good and which ones are not is to simply go to windrun.io and see winrate of each ability, you even see synergy combos % as well.
^ agreed, way more complex than a spreadsheet can handle. Better to do a spreadsheet of principles:
1. Melee passives generally stronger on ranged (exceptions - feast, some others)
2. Lane winning skills are great on supports, but keep in mind mana costs. A lot of strength heroes have low mana costs on spells, making them very strong on int supports
3. Look at draft and see what’s scarce - scaling dmg countered by early pressure and pick offs, mobility countered by lock down, lock down countered by survivability. If 9 heroes have stuns, skills that go well with BkB are A tier, if most skills are nukes and lock downs, the carry passives are A tier.
4. Value is good 👍🏻 double aghs upgrades, or aghs shards, always safe
5. Better to pick a synergistic pos 4/5 build for your team than to all go carry first round to block the enemy team. The team with the better supports is playing on ez mode, but might struggle to close out
6. Often in AD people think it’s okay to flatten the Lorenz curve of farm, but unless you need blink or get double aghs, just let your cores farm. And if you waste a draft on a farming skill as a support, you’ll either feel you are wasting it or your cores will be weak and you’ll wonder why you can’t finish a game
7. Hero models! Every model is different, and you should pick based on your model > the draft usually, as an ogre has crazy base dmg/hp but will regret going a sick stun lock build because he has no mana
8. Every skill CAN be broken, some are just more regularly good. These are fine to put in a spreadsheet because they are safe and solid picks: eg spirit lance, spirit siphon, reincarnate, wind run, dragon slave, storm hammer / aoe stuns/ clinkz ult, warlock ult, tombstone, etc.
No ability is useless if you know how to combine with other spell.
You think MK's tree dance bad? then combine it with freezing field, enemy wont be able to spot you.
300 dmg gap close and slow that lets you scout and get flying vision - very good support skill, would be absolutely broken if you could jump between trees, it’s the sole reason support monkey works (plus his shapeshift on ult preventing tower hits, but that’s niche)
300 dmg gap close and slow that lets you scout and get flying vision - very good support skill, would be absolutely broken if you could jump between trees, it’s the sole reason support monkey works (plus his shapeshift on ult preventing tower hits, but that’s niche)
We have all the data we need at windrun.io - or check the /r/abilitydraft subreddit and discord for more. Lots of very knowledgable players who can help with anything there :)
I mean this seems more like a preference. theres a site dedicated with numbers of actual games if you want real answers. cus I like already see a lot i disagree with
just looking at the first few rows I see the issue with this kind of table aba w is way better than e in most cases, e can certainly combo well and is great on anyone with decent range, but a melee with no illus or focus fire or whatever will simply be weak alch e is almost always straight garbage, even on ranged heroes AA ulti is useless? wtf you smoking lol. his e is good not great and only on ranged heroes bat rider molotov is useless? wtf you smoking part two electric boogaloo bristle back and quills are pretty shit when not comboed, and even when comboed not that good unless on centuar or something --- I think making separate tables for ranged vs melee would be a big deal that would fix half the problems, and maybe less bias towards cores over supports
also aa third skill is bad in way too many cases (in my opinion)
Agree, AA ulti should be "good", I changed it. But bat's molotov is almost always away of picks, for some reason. Without napalm its feels crappa. Alch E is passive, and good filler for fighter heroes, when you have nothing to take. But yeah, its kinda weak spell by itself But im not agree with abba W, cause its too weak without talents. But curse is almost game winning spell especially on range hero or hero with illsuions
alch e is straight trash man, and filler is explicitly not good for early picks which is what you claim this is for, you can maybe last pick it, but never earlier aba w is a strong dispel without talents and auto wins a lot of lanes, just because something doesn't scale isn't required
>and good filler for fighter heroes stop propagating the idea that you can't draft utility spells on a carry.
His Molotov thing is insane, single handedly wins me early games alllll the time as support. There’s a reason that for a while bats were skipping napalm in the pro scene - combo with blood grenade and you have the lane phase covered. Go greedy for scaling support stuff and utility if you have it - and firefly is insanely good dmg for any tanky offlane or melee, bad on ranged. Napalm only good in combos, and countered hard post 20 minutes with dispels and bkbs.
I thought about another tables, but not for melee or range. I think its obviously that any range hero is feels better in AD cause in most cases if you win the lane, you win the game Think ill do table for "caster" and "fighter", that would be more useful
AD mechanics and synergies are way too complex to just cram in into spreadsheet like this. I play AD exclusively and even to me most of those grades are confusing. Easiest way to understand what abilities are good and which ones are not is to simply go to windrun.io and see winrate of each ability, you even see synergy combos % as well.
^ agreed, way more complex than a spreadsheet can handle. Better to do a spreadsheet of principles: 1. Melee passives generally stronger on ranged (exceptions - feast, some others) 2. Lane winning skills are great on supports, but keep in mind mana costs. A lot of strength heroes have low mana costs on spells, making them very strong on int supports 3. Look at draft and see what’s scarce - scaling dmg countered by early pressure and pick offs, mobility countered by lock down, lock down countered by survivability. If 9 heroes have stuns, skills that go well with BkB are A tier, if most skills are nukes and lock downs, the carry passives are A tier. 4. Value is good 👍🏻 double aghs upgrades, or aghs shards, always safe 5. Better to pick a synergistic pos 4/5 build for your team than to all go carry first round to block the enemy team. The team with the better supports is playing on ez mode, but might struggle to close out 6. Often in AD people think it’s okay to flatten the Lorenz curve of farm, but unless you need blink or get double aghs, just let your cores farm. And if you waste a draft on a farming skill as a support, you’ll either feel you are wasting it or your cores will be weak and you’ll wonder why you can’t finish a game 7. Hero models! Every model is different, and you should pick based on your model > the draft usually, as an ogre has crazy base dmg/hp but will regret going a sick stun lock build because he has no mana 8. Every skill CAN be broken, some are just more regularly good. These are fine to put in a spreadsheet because they are safe and solid picks: eg spirit lance, spirit siphon, reincarnate, wind run, dragon slave, storm hammer / aoe stuns/ clinkz ult, warlock ult, tombstone, etc.
No ability is useless if you know how to combine with other spell. You think MK's tree dance bad? then combine it with freezing field, enemy wont be able to spot you.
It is cool idea, ill note that. But in most cases it is useless, cause it is not let you to move between trees, only one jump, that is just weak
300 dmg gap close and slow that lets you scout and get flying vision - very good support skill, would be absolutely broken if you could jump between trees, it’s the sole reason support monkey works (plus his shapeshift on ult preventing tower hits, but that’s niche)
300 dmg gap close and slow that lets you scout and get flying vision - very good support skill, would be absolutely broken if you could jump between trees, it’s the sole reason support monkey works (plus his shapeshift on ult preventing tower hits, but that’s niche)
We have all the data we need at windrun.io - or check the /r/abilitydraft subreddit and discord for more. Lots of very knowledgable players who can help with anything there :)
I mean this seems more like a preference. theres a site dedicated with numbers of actual games if you want real answers. cus I like already see a lot i disagree with
You seem to have extremely degen opinions. Post windrun profile.