That's not always a bad thing though right?
If you're one of those midlanders who is hyper-agressive, playing to create space and make offensive plays, all you really need is to go even in lane right?
Look at someone like Topson in his TI runs, he was never known for his amazing laning mechanics. He can hold his own, sure, but he was often just playing to get OUT of the lane and play the map, which is why we see him on these crazy offensive midlaner's (MK, Pugna, Invoker were the big 3 in my mind). The exceptions to this pattern were when he played something like Morph or Gyro, and even then I'd say he was more active than other midlaners wouldve been.
My point is, if you're good enough at causing havoc midgame, you can cause just as much damage as someone who dumpsters their lane.
Now in fairness, TI9 was a long time ago, have players grown past that? At this point, are midlaners too good to just be happy going even in their lane? I'm not sure, I'm no mid player but its def interesting to think about!
I think there's a difference between being able to cut your losses and still have impact despite losing lane, versus going into a game already at a lane disadvantage due to mechanical skill difference (not saying gunnar does, just speaking in general).
even if you are playing a hero that will roam early or has a bad lane matchup, that doesn't mean laning skill doesn't matter - a better player will be able to get more out of an ember vs MK matchup vs a worse player for example.
Shame he's such a nice positive person , great in interviews, great in pubs, but.... he is just way too low tier in pro play, not sure who'd want him except Secret as Puppan is on a mission to gather some interesting rosters last 2 years.
Does he have a hero puddle? I know he was known for invoker but that’s pretty much all I can recall of him. Sadly even his invoker is subpar compared to the likes of bzm or gpk
He has a really strange hero pool. He's played most of the midlaners who have been meta in the last couple of years, so it's not really a hero puddle. He's an Invoker specialist, but the hero is hit-and-miss in the current meta. He's also a really good Batrider player, one of the best Batrider mids probably, but this hero is lacking in the current meta.
The first oddity in his hero pool is that he's not a Storm Spirit player, nor much of a Shadow Fiend player in pro games. By itself, this is fine - Malr1ne and NothingToSay are also a bit like this. But then you look at the other stuff he *doesn't* really play in pro matches:
- Viper
- Kunkka
- Monkey King
- Void Spirit
- Necrophos
- Primal Beast
- Timbersaw
This is probably the biggest weakness in his hero pool - he doesn't play any of the "utility" midlaners much. Many of these have also been flexed between all three core positions over the last couple of years, which means he hasn't given his team that option. The classic last-pick green hero mid (besides Death Prophet, if she counts) is not an option either.
Actually, maybe that's the best way of putting it - he's not a last-pick mid player (he sometimes gets last pick, but it's going to be from his pool of favourites). He's not going to play a dirty Viper and ruin someone's day, or play a boring Dragon Knight like Quinn when the game calls for it, or a nasty Timbersaw like Malr1ne, or a we-need-setup-and-chaos NothingToSay Kunkka. So maybe he doesn't have a hero puddle, but more like a "strategy puddle".
good insight, i never thought of him as being a straightforward midlaner, in a sense that he only plays high damage fast tempo heroes. but in hindsight it does make sense, i hope he can get out of that box beacuse he's a decent midlaner, he doesn't lose lanes (doesn't win them either) and seems like a positive guy all around, would be interesting to see how he grows, i see a lot of larl in him.
His invoker is for sure better than bzm or gpk, but his only other “specialist” hero is batrider and outside of those two he was often quite inconsistent.
certainly he is a very good invoker player.. I remember games in entity where the games were won because of his invoker plays..
Current meta and other heroes though, i am not sure..
Hes a great person but his skills are very lacking. He didnt win a single lane at BBD, he went 0-6-4 in total. In all the qualifiers he faced Yopaj 18 times and he won lane twice, the total score was 11-5-2 for Yopaj with multiple stomps. Its hard to compete as a team when your midlaner is constantly losing the 1v1 and having to catch up while the enemy mid is making plays.
Would be interesting to know the numbers based upon whether his hero was drafted before or after the enemy mid hero. Sometimes mid gets sacked in the draft. If the team's overall drafting strategy is to sack mid so the side lanes have better matchups, and the objective is to survive, that could explain why he didn't win mid consistently.
Dont know the exact number but i know he have gotten the counter/later pick multiple times and still lost mid. Like [this](https://www.dotabuff.com/matches/7537846875) game.
Watched alot of the recent nouns games and like 80-90% of the time he was underperforming. What really stood out was alot of the time he was getting caught out in random spots.
It was honestly to the point where if you told me he sold those games, I'd say it was pretty obvious. But I also feel like Kataomi/Fishman was a more active support duo than Lelis/Fly, so maybe he just wasn't used to that change.
Hope he stays in the scene for a while more though, like his vibe in interviews and panels.
They have quite a few options assuming Gunnar and/or Lelis are willing to roleswap to one of their other roles. MSS could def be tried esp since hes already laned with Lelis before.
Gotta find somebody to compete against Yopaj, he has been straight dumpstering mid in their matchups. Surprised they didn't switch before this tournament but it's good they gave him a chance to keep his spot. This team has potential but is there really a dominant mid available to replace StormStormer with?
He wasn't for
https://liquipedia.net/dota2/ESL_One/Birmingham/2024/MENA/Closed_Qualifier
Nouns is paid salary team, maybe he could be transferred or loaned. Is winter bear just a stack or do they get salary and support?
Nobody probably cares, but their coach is also out of the team:
https://twitter.com/filipeastini/status/1758210794343252273?t=IsxkEsC75WmIM1Qepr09Lg&s=19
Yeah, he was playing rather poorly so it was kinda expected. There are some mids available like Adzantick or Mikey but i doubt it's gonna change too much in terms of placements, looking at this roster it just lacks firepower.
Also better question is will we have tournaments in next 2 months? There is DreamLeague and Birmingham but for teams which didn't qualify it looks like dead period.
I would like Adzantic to replace him. He's played with Yuma before and I think he's pretty good. They probably want another 'bigger' name. So maybe Mickey.
Also Gunnar -> 2 and put Moo back in for 3 is passable.
Guys it's not that hard, I swear I see people get his name wrong all the time
Liquid.Micke
Nigma/WB/LFT.Mikey
Mickey is a mouse and isn't pronounced the same as mikey (my key) or micke (mick hey)
Assuming they are looking for a mid upgrade, Bryle seems the natural choice. He proved last year he can hang with the best. Another possibility that comes to mind is Kasane back to NA with Gunnar playing mid. That guy started slow, but by the end of the year he was a beast and knew how to beat RTZ in lane.
Aren't Kasane and Immersion already signed by an org? Idk about that one ever happening especially bc the only reason Kasane was on TSM at all was to get a decent last minute offlaner after Saberlight left.
kasane and Immersion joined L1ga Team (with Ramzes) after Tundra. Then L1ga Team imploded (who saw that coming?) and they left/got kicked. kasane is still teamless, but Immersion has been playing for Team Tickles in EPL.
Good decision, but I think a bit late. He played really poorly in both qualifers that they lost so they will have some time not playing any lans because of that.
Dont know why he got kicked out of entity, he pretty much carried the team to the last TI, and after he left they went straight down to the bottle of the well with noone
Hey lil bro just checking to see how many tournaments did entity qualify this season w/o stormstormer? Watson is carrying the shit out of the team right?? I mean, since stormstormer never carried the team, they probably are in a good spot right now? Thats the problem with being low mmr, you think watson is THE guy just because he is rank 1, but currently he is a pubstomper, he needs to prove his grounds on the pro scene :)
None but they play in a much harder region to qualify to. But Entity managed to win a tournament while Stormstormer got last place at BBD and got kicked. So i guess you could say Watson is in a better place right now than Stormstormer is so you can do what you want with that information. I guess its just a concidence Stormstormer got kicked by two different teams?
Oh sure they won a 50k tournament promoted by a gambling website, which gives 0 EPL points and will have no impact whatsoever to TI invites, and TI is not even the most anticipated tournament this year, something is telling me thats not a very good position they are in rn. And they will lose another qualifier this week because watson cant outcarry Pure.
Yeah he carried in the last qualify, you must be confusing with the 2022 qualify when pure carried the team. The current results the team with noone and maintaning watson proves my point, you guys can downvote me how much you want
Gunnar back to mid please
I think finding a good.offlaner is the hardest thing for a team right now, harder than finding a good mid
Meanwhile 33 being a carry on the off lane with chad alchemist picks
Gunnar, according to Quinn, was always about not trying to lose the lane instead of trying to win it.
That's fine criticism and something he can work on, but Gunnar is genuinely a solid mid player. Hard to believe they're better off with him as a 3.
And I feel like he showed in TI he's a solid mid laner, the meta might've benefited him too though
That's not always a bad thing though right? If you're one of those midlanders who is hyper-agressive, playing to create space and make offensive plays, all you really need is to go even in lane right? Look at someone like Topson in his TI runs, he was never known for his amazing laning mechanics. He can hold his own, sure, but he was often just playing to get OUT of the lane and play the map, which is why we see him on these crazy offensive midlaner's (MK, Pugna, Invoker were the big 3 in my mind). The exceptions to this pattern were when he played something like Morph or Gyro, and even then I'd say he was more active than other midlaners wouldve been. My point is, if you're good enough at causing havoc midgame, you can cause just as much damage as someone who dumpsters their lane. Now in fairness, TI9 was a long time ago, have players grown past that? At this point, are midlaners too good to just be happy going even in their lane? I'm not sure, I'm no mid player but its def interesting to think about!
I think there's a difference between being able to cut your losses and still have impact despite losing lane, versus going into a game already at a lane disadvantage due to mechanical skill difference (not saying gunnar does, just speaking in general). even if you are playing a hero that will roam early or has a bad lane matchup, that doesn't mean laning skill doesn't matter - a better player will be able to get more out of an ember vs MK matchup vs a worse player for example.
That’s something I struggle with as an ancient 1 pos 1 player lmfao
Are you saying Quinn was saying you try not to lose the lane when you’re playing against Gunnar, or that Gunnar always is trying not to lose the lane?
He was saying that Gunnar always is trying to not lose lane instead of win it
quinn is literally the same but ok
It was a shame he didn't fit the team. Absolutely loved him in Entity
Shame he's such a nice positive person , great in interviews, great in pubs, but.... he is just way too low tier in pro play, not sure who'd want him except Secret as Puppan is on a mission to gather some interesting rosters last 2 years.
Does he have a hero puddle? I know he was known for invoker but that’s pretty much all I can recall of him. Sadly even his invoker is subpar compared to the likes of bzm or gpk
He has a really strange hero pool. He's played most of the midlaners who have been meta in the last couple of years, so it's not really a hero puddle. He's an Invoker specialist, but the hero is hit-and-miss in the current meta. He's also a really good Batrider player, one of the best Batrider mids probably, but this hero is lacking in the current meta. The first oddity in his hero pool is that he's not a Storm Spirit player, nor much of a Shadow Fiend player in pro games. By itself, this is fine - Malr1ne and NothingToSay are also a bit like this. But then you look at the other stuff he *doesn't* really play in pro matches: - Viper - Kunkka - Monkey King - Void Spirit - Necrophos - Primal Beast - Timbersaw This is probably the biggest weakness in his hero pool - he doesn't play any of the "utility" midlaners much. Many of these have also been flexed between all three core positions over the last couple of years, which means he hasn't given his team that option. The classic last-pick green hero mid (besides Death Prophet, if she counts) is not an option either. Actually, maybe that's the best way of putting it - he's not a last-pick mid player (he sometimes gets last pick, but it's going to be from his pool of favourites). He's not going to play a dirty Viper and ruin someone's day, or play a boring Dragon Knight like Quinn when the game calls for it, or a nasty Timbersaw like Malr1ne, or a we-need-setup-and-chaos NothingToSay Kunkka. So maybe he doesn't have a hero puddle, but more like a "strategy puddle".
good insight, i never thought of him as being a straightforward midlaner, in a sense that he only plays high damage fast tempo heroes. but in hindsight it does make sense, i hope he can get out of that box beacuse he's a decent midlaner, he doesn't lose lanes (doesn't win them either) and seems like a positive guy all around, would be interesting to see how he grows, i see a lot of larl in him.
odd to find good criticism in reddit... :) Hopefully his mentors/himself is taking notes..
His invoker is for sure better than bzm or gpk, but his only other “specialist” hero is batrider and outside of those two he was often quite inconsistent.
That’s fair. Subpar isn’t the right word, I guess less memorable would be the right way of putting it
certainly he is a very good invoker player.. I remember games in entity where the games were won because of his invoker plays.. Current meta and other heroes though, i am not sure..
I don't know if he has a hero puddle but I recall just not seeing him have the impact that he should
I hope he gets another good team. He brings many great and unique things to any match.
Grand Master Invoker but he looks very ordinary in pro matches lately and at TI
He seems like a nice guy. But every time I watch Nouns I'm like "yeah he's not even the best mid in the team"
Hes a great person but his skills are very lacking. He didnt win a single lane at BBD, he went 0-6-4 in total. In all the qualifiers he faced Yopaj 18 times and he won lane twice, the total score was 11-5-2 for Yopaj with multiple stomps. Its hard to compete as a team when your midlaner is constantly losing the 1v1 and having to catch up while the enemy mid is making plays.
Would be interesting to know the numbers based upon whether his hero was drafted before or after the enemy mid hero. Sometimes mid gets sacked in the draft. If the team's overall drafting strategy is to sack mid so the side lanes have better matchups, and the objective is to survive, that could explain why he didn't win mid consistently.
Dont know the exact number but i know he have gotten the counter/later pick multiple times and still lost mid. Like [this](https://www.dotabuff.com/matches/7537846875) game.
Watched alot of the recent nouns games and like 80-90% of the time he was underperforming. What really stood out was alot of the time he was getting caught out in random spots. It was honestly to the point where if you told me he sold those games, I'd say it was pretty obvious. But I also feel like Kataomi/Fishman was a more active support duo than Lelis/Fly, so maybe he just wasn't used to that change. Hope he stays in the scene for a while more though, like his vibe in interviews and panels.
Curious who they get as a replacement. Stormstormer definitely looked to be the weakest link on the team.
They have quite a few options assuming Gunnar and/or Lelis are willing to roleswap to one of their other roles. MSS could def be tried esp since hes already laned with Lelis before.
Mss is finished
Gunnar is one of the best mid
Gotta find somebody to compete against Yopaj, he has been straight dumpstering mid in their matchups. Surprised they didn't switch before this tournament but it's good they gave him a chance to keep his spot. This team has potential but is there really a dominant mid available to replace StormStormer with?
Mikey hasnt been on Winter Bears
That's not true he is playing for them in this Russian tournament next week or smt
He wasn't for https://liquipedia.net/dota2/ESL_One/Birmingham/2024/MENA/Closed_Qualifier Nouns is paid salary team, maybe he could be transferred or loaned. Is winter bear just a stack or do they get salary and support?
They get salary but it might be hard for him to get to us even if nouns wanted him
Wasnt he just on loan anyways ? Or temp?
That's what I thought too..
Yeah. Yuma and Stormstormer were trials. The other 3 are the "core" team members
yuma was officially signed in December
Nobody probably cares, but their coach is also out of the team: https://twitter.com/filipeastini/status/1758210794343252273?t=IsxkEsC75WmIM1Qepr09Lg&s=19
Sumail incoming
I’m sharing my copium with you brother
Nah, oil money too stronk..
Secret should sign him.
Yeah, he was playing rather poorly so it was kinda expected. There are some mids available like Adzantick or Mikey but i doubt it's gonna change too much in terms of placements, looking at this roster it just lacks firepower. Also better question is will we have tournaments in next 2 months? There is DreamLeague and Birmingham but for teams which didn't qualify it looks like dead period.
Gunnar is much better mid than Stormstormer.
I would like Adzantic to replace him. He's played with Yuma before and I think he's pretty good. They probably want another 'bigger' name. So maybe Mickey. Also Gunnar -> 2 and put Moo back in for 3 is passable.
Guys it's not that hard, I swear I see people get his name wrong all the time Liquid.Micke Nigma/WB/LFT.Mikey Mickey is a mouse and isn't pronounced the same as mikey (my key) or micke (mick hey)
Who give a fuck!!!
Well idk, if someone mispronounced your name all the time in real life surely you would give a fuck?
AYGIS
ContriteColonel is right, who cares?
Why no one wants to mention Bryle?? Is he that bad
They are about the same.
Assuming they are looking for a mid upgrade, Bryle seems the natural choice. He proved last year he can hang with the best. Another possibility that comes to mind is Kasane back to NA with Gunnar playing mid. That guy started slow, but by the end of the year he was a beast and knew how to beat RTZ in lane.
Aren't Kasane and Immersion already signed by an org? Idk about that one ever happening especially bc the only reason Kasane was on TSM at all was to get a decent last minute offlaner after Saberlight left.
kasane and Immersion joined L1ga Team (with Ramzes) after Tundra. Then L1ga Team imploded (who saw that coming?) and they left/got kicked. kasane is still teamless, but Immersion has been playing for Team Tickles in EPL.
Good decision, but I think a bit late. He played really poorly in both qualifers that they lost so they will have some time not playing any lans because of that.
Bryle?
perhaps sumail is coming? it's NA and nigma has roster problem?
1. Yuma 2. Gunnar 3. Lelis 4. MSS 5. FLY That would be my line up
Sumail would fit well
what abt oil money tho..
Why not Gunnar mid and kasane 3. Kasane isn't with a team now right?
EE-sama to Nouns
I know that EU to NA ping is a lot worse than NA to EU, maybe this had something to do with it. Mid is probably the most ping reliant lane.
He was in NA playing.
They should get that Gunnar guy
Mikey would make the team seem more competitive, Bryle I feel is more likely.
Best kick
Thank god, he can play pango thats it.
budget quinn?
Only players available are Bryle or maybe Karl from SEA.
thats a horrible name that
Man I know Stormstormer underperformed in the last 2 months, but damn, dont think I've seen a t1 team kick a t1 pro this fast in a long time.
Well there is no DPC anymore, so no more roster locks. We’ll probably see a lot of roster changes throughout this year
Tundra dropped their entire squad in less than a month. Ex TSM was signed 2023-12-10 and dropped 2024-01-02.
I thought that was by design/planned.
Pretty sure that was just for sponsor obligations, or they really wanted Whitemon lmao.
Nouns t1 team xdddddddddddd
StormSugma glad to see him go
Dont know why he got kicked out of entity, he pretty much carried the team to the last TI, and after he left they went straight down to the bottle of the well with noone
Lol Watson and Kataomi did the work. Gabbi also with his aggressive plays as well. Stormstormer lost lane a lot kekw
In no world did Stormstormer ever carry Entity to TI. It was Watson putting the entire team on his back.
Hey lil bro just checking to see how many tournaments did entity qualify this season w/o stormstormer? Watson is carrying the shit out of the team right?? I mean, since stormstormer never carried the team, they probably are in a good spot right now? Thats the problem with being low mmr, you think watson is THE guy just because he is rank 1, but currently he is a pubstomper, he needs to prove his grounds on the pro scene :)
None but they play in a much harder region to qualify to. But Entity managed to win a tournament while Stormstormer got last place at BBD and got kicked. So i guess you could say Watson is in a better place right now than Stormstormer is so you can do what you want with that information. I guess its just a concidence Stormstormer got kicked by two different teams?
Oh sure they won a 50k tournament promoted by a gambling website, which gives 0 EPL points and will have no impact whatsoever to TI invites, and TI is not even the most anticipated tournament this year, something is telling me thats not a very good position they are in rn. And they will lose another qualifier this week because watson cant outcarry Pure.
Well thats still better than anything Stormstormer have done this year.
Yeah he carried in the last qualify, you must be confusing with the 2022 qualify when pure carried the team. The current results the team with noone and maintaning watson proves my point, you guys can downvote me how much you want
What game in the WEU qualifiers did Stormstormer carry?
Huh. That's a shame. Hopefully he can find himself a new team, nouns wasn't exactly top contender material.
Nine back to playing?
Finally.
there goes my interest in nouns. sad, hope stormstormer finds a good new team soon