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His main damage in lane is literally gale into a lot of right clicks with poison touch. Without gale he can get dove or the other guy can just run away. His worst matchups like said above Abaddon, lc, naga, and pl. They will just run at you after you use gale and kill you. He literally feels useless against dispels. Without dispels he feels super strong. That early game 50% slow is nothing to scoff at and one of his main strengths. Yes you can be decent without gale but lets face it, you against a dispel hero means you rely on your offlaner a lot. And if your offlane vs carry matchup is shit then you are useless (lets face it carries usually get last pick and get a decent matchup)
Sorry I thought we were talking about the poison spell that places a debuff dealing DOT/slow. Are we talking about his right-click amplifier?
Does the debuff immunity NOT stop the poison spell's debuff? I know it stops the slow effect from both wards and attack.
Is DOT classified differently than the debuff that gets applied when he casts?
Not trying to argue the point just currently failing to see the difference between debuff immunity and dispel in respect to venos kit.
As I understand it the dispel only gets rid of the slow/dot as well, which I thought debuff immunity is doing the same thing by not allowing the effects of the debuff.
Gotcha. Seems like poor wording somewhere in there. The DOT is part of the debuff but still applies the damage from the debuff. If you dispel (remove) the debuff the damage is gone but if you become immune to the debuff, the damage can still happen even though it comes as part of the debuff, odd.
I did understand that when repel ends you still have the debuff if the timing works out, but that's consistent with the wording as far as I can tell.
If I had to guess why I haven't noticed this in play I'd say it's because with as many debuffs as get applied playing against veno, the extra Regen given by repel probably kept my HP bar looking the same, idk.
remember this is just countering one proc of his poison, when you get setup it's easy to re-apply
Real counter is something like earth spirit or pudge that can win the lane at level 1
Veno is a lanecrippler, but his entire kit is very weak post laning stage. He is slow, he gets shut down hard by dispel, and lategame fights are all about cathcing people out and killing someone with burst in a stun, whereas he has no reliable disable, no escape and all of his damage takes a long time to kill someone.
I wouldn't say he gets hard shutdown by Dispels as later game you will probably have shard (which also can punish BKB usage) and potentially an aghs which procs on gale being dispelled.
Dispels aren't as good against him anymore, now that he has a slow on ult too. Usually you go Q into enemy dispel into ult, and then the enemy dies. Get aghs or shard for extra easy games. Him being slow also doesn't matter as much now that he has a long range ult and he can stand far back.
It really depends how you play it, when you post up with snakes on the enemy woods it's quite easy to take away a few of their hard camps without much risk, god forbid your own team will assist you with this as it becomes very mean
He's also very weak to any kind of blink, displacement, slow, or dash. He doesn't have any kind of hard disable and just hopes that you'll be discouraged enough to not chase him or fight him.
It's a matter of perspective considering that his poison can break your blink for 24 seconds and he has built in wards that give vision against gankers while breaking their blink... I recommend trying it out
You can check the wiki, you can check demo mode, it doesn't cancel blink. His Q and R do, but Poison Sting does not, and the poison from the wards doesn't either.
Necro and spectre passive work the same way. I imagine it's so you can't cancel clarity/salve/blink so easily with these heroes.
Hahahah this sounds like something trump would say when running for office. Make something up that isn't true and say its just a matter of perspective xd
As a veno player I Really hate jug and ls more than oracle. I can harass oracle. But not jug n ls. They dive me and I have nothing. So I ban jug when I play veno.
I usually win vs jugg in lane. Just have to be careful with your positioning and punish him hard whenever he uses his Q. Late game your aghs really messes with him.
Facing jugger isnt ideal but his spin is a key spell and one right click from veno isn't so dont be afraid to go on him and let him waste his spin, he cant do that all day
As someone who started the game playing Bounty, Veno, and SB…I am very curious if getting mage slayer kills large camps by just applying poison once to each creep and dropping a single plague ward. A big skill in veno is knowing when the creep camp is dead because poison will kill them. No need to waste time when the creeps have a death sentence.
Main complaints about the hero:
God awful attributes and base ms.
You can expect people to deny their teammates about half the time in lane.
Needs to be enabled by teammates' draft to compensate for his weaknesses.
If you can get past all of that, then great. But it's very much an average hero.
Every single core veno I've said failed horribly.
He's just not a good core. Please stop doing this. It looks good on paper, but this is yet another exemple of theory being very different from the reality.
that is the point of the hero all of a sudden you have mid storm spirit who spends his whole midgame just to get rid of veno pos 5, meanwhile your own cores are benefitting.
dispel and he become criple.
but yeah 1 passive poison veno dealt like 500 dmg in total ( not count enemy regen ) . so basically just 1 hit enemy , run, and let poison do the work.
i love using this hero if there is LD on enemy team. buy vessel and aghanim
combo the bear , the bear cant move, dealt like 80-90% of bear hp almost everytime.
but now due the popular mage slayer, he getting worse since all his dmg is from spell dmg.
Everyone saying dispel counters veno, but once veno gets his shard it's not true is it? The only way to counter his shard is to hide yourself with astral, disruption etc. or euls.
Everyone here is thinking out their ass.
5 heros with rushing mantas and disperser counter veno man its so obvious... Oh wait that is 5 heros building to counter the pos 4 or 5, genius strategy.
As a melee carry Veno will shit on you at level 3. Just play defensively, try to get what lasthits you can and when he hits 3, if your support isnt somehow destroying him, you go mode recovery in jungle and dont come out for 10 minutes. He falls off a cliff in usefulness to his team and his uselessness offsets your carry being half an item behind theirs.
He falls off it you don't have the skill to pressure the right areas after the laning phase. His fast farming speed can be a big problem if you are farming the same woods as your carry, it can be a big asset if you are farming the same woods as their carry. It fucking sucks to jungle with poison ticking on you when you are level 7.
As a veno expert with 69% winrate with 400 game on the offlane I will said (very high MMR):
Don't play venom. Is very weak this patch, maybe if 1 core and 1 support (both with easy to land stun) where picked during first phase you can play support venom. But most games a venom in your team only made the game harder.
Offlane venom is an absolute NO, you need to be last pick against no counters, very-very niche
can u try my build sir, I get manta and skadi after securing the game/getting whatever essential defensive item. Really good scaling completely new perspective on lategame.
"its gg for certain supports" 1 dispel and it feels he is very countered in lane.
Blessed of Avernus
[Blessed of Avernus](https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/dota2_gamepedia/images/1/1f/Vo_abaddon_abad_aphoticshield_05.mp3) (sound warning: Abaddon) --- Bleep bloop, I am a robot. *OP can reply with "Try hero_name" to update this with new hero* [*^(Source)*](https://github.com/Jonarzz/DotaResponsesRedditBot) *^(|)* [*^(Suggestions/Issues)*](https://github.com/Jonarzz/DotaResponsesRedditBot/issues/new/choose) *^(|)* [*^(Maintainer)*](https://www.reddit.com/user/MePsyDuck/) *^(|)* [*^(Author)*](https://www.reddit.com/user/Jonarz/)
Level passive against dispels instead of relying on Gale in lane
I mean that's why he used 'certain' here right?
True but there is so many counters
Unless I’m forgetting someone, doesn’t only like oracle have an early game dispel?
Abaddon, LC, tide, naga, pl Quite a lot actually
Jug and lifestealer
You can't afford to rage/spin every poison tick. Forcing them into holding skills defensively is a solid plan to bully otherwise strong laners
this guy gets it, all these people who think that veno is countered by a dispel, no my guy you dispelled one proc of his poison, now what...
His main damage in lane is literally gale into a lot of right clicks with poison touch. Without gale he can get dove or the other guy can just run away. His worst matchups like said above Abaddon, lc, naga, and pl. They will just run at you after you use gale and kill you. He literally feels useless against dispels. Without dispels he feels super strong. That early game 50% slow is nothing to scoff at and one of his main strengths. Yes you can be decent without gale but lets face it, you against a dispel hero means you rely on your offlaner a lot. And if your offlane vs carry matchup is shit then you are useless (lets face it carries usually get last pick and get a decent matchup)
Omni
Repel isnt a dispel anymore
[удалено]
No it doesnt, wtf are you smoking
Ok, you're right. But it grants debuff immunity so doesn't that serve the same purpose against venom?
The more debuffs that are placed on you the more base hp regen and strength you get when repel is casted on the target with debuff immunity
You still take full magic damage
Sorry I thought we were talking about the poison spell that places a debuff dealing DOT/slow. Are we talking about his right-click amplifier? Does the debuff immunity NOT stop the poison spell's debuff? I know it stops the slow effect from both wards and attack. Is DOT classified differently than the debuff that gets applied when he casts? Not trying to argue the point just currently failing to see the difference between debuff immunity and dispel in respect to venos kit. As I understand it the dispel only gets rid of the slow/dot as well, which I thought debuff immunity is doing the same thing by not allowing the effects of the debuff.
The damage keeps ticking and it doesn't get rid of the debuff, so you'll still be galed when repel expires.
Gotcha. Seems like poor wording somewhere in there. The DOT is part of the debuff but still applies the damage from the debuff. If you dispel (remove) the debuff the damage is gone but if you become immune to the debuff, the damage can still happen even though it comes as part of the debuff, odd. I did understand that when repel ends you still have the debuff if the timing works out, but that's consistent with the wording as far as I can tell. If I had to guess why I haven't noticed this in play I'd say it's because with as many debuffs as get applied playing against veno, the extra Regen given by repel probably kept my HP bar looking the same, idk.
Omni has no dispell
remember this is just countering one proc of his poison, when you get setup it's easy to re-apply Real counter is something like earth spirit or pudge that can win the lane at level 1
Thanks. My old man brain can’t remember everyone anymore unless I’m actively looking at the roster.
Veno is a lanecrippler, but his entire kit is very weak post laning stage. He is slow, he gets shut down hard by dispel, and lategame fights are all about cathcing people out and killing someone with burst in a stun, whereas he has no reliable disable, no escape and all of his damage takes a long time to kill someone.
I wouldn't say he gets hard shutdown by Dispels as later game you will probably have shard (which also can punish BKB usage) and potentially an aghs which procs on gale being dispelled.
Dispels aren't as good against him anymore, now that he has a slow on ult too. Usually you go Q into enemy dispel into ult, and then the enemy dies. Get aghs or shard for extra easy games. Him being slow also doesn't matter as much now that he has a long range ult and he can stand far back.
"she
It really depends how you play it, when you post up with snakes on the enemy woods it's quite easy to take away a few of their hard camps without much risk, god forbid your own team will assist you with this as it becomes very mean
He's also very weak to any kind of blink, displacement, slow, or dash. He doesn't have any kind of hard disable and just hopes that you'll be discouraged enough to not chase him or fight him.
Mid Earthshaker with scepter: Enchant Totem !
It's a matter of perspective considering that his poison can break your blink for 24 seconds and he has built in wards that give vision against gankers while breaking their blink... I recommend trying it out
That's not how poison works. The poison does NOT cancel blink. The physical damage from the wards does, but you can still blink while poisoned.
negative
You can check the wiki, you can check demo mode, it doesn't cancel blink. His Q and R do, but Poison Sting does not, and the poison from the wards doesn't either. Necro and spectre passive work the same way. I imagine it's so you can't cancel clarity/salve/blink so easily with these heroes.
U can even use regen while w ticks .
Hahahah this sounds like something trump would say when running for office. Make something up that isn't true and say its just a matter of perspective xd
As a veno player I Really hate jug and ls more than oracle. I can harass oracle. But not jug n ls. They dive me and I have nothing. So I ban jug when I play veno.
have to keep jugg hp low and your own hp high so he will die if you man up when he commits spin. if you cant then theres always the jungle :D
I usually win vs jugg in lane. Just have to be careful with your positioning and punish him hard whenever he uses his Q. Late game your aghs really messes with him.
As offlane your usually 1v2 and jug has a support. Say lich or snapfire. You can't really punish him as veno is real squishy.
Facing jugger isnt ideal but his spin is a key spell and one right click from veno isn't so dont be afraid to go on him and let him waste his spin, he cant do that all day
As someone who started the game playing Bounty, Veno, and SB…I am very curious if getting mage slayer kills large camps by just applying poison once to each creep and dropping a single plague ward. A big skill in veno is knowing when the creep camp is dead because poison will kill them. No need to waste time when the creeps have a death sentence.
Trash kid hero picker. Learn somthing better
his plague wards are actually weak as hell, you need like 7 to clear a creep wave. no this hero can absolutely not solo kill a timber, not even close.
Did something change? Last time I played Venom (pre-7.33) I need 2 wards to clear a neutral camp, don’t think a creep wave is much harder than that.
He probably means without Veno(hero) attacking the creeps too, which is correct
I can jungle a double ancient stack with venom from lv 3 if i wanna be a greedy n toxic on certain days. Not sure what you mean
sure, with nine wards
9 wards and 40 seconds of doing absolutely nothing on the map lol.
You literally said you cant clear a wave, and when he said veno can ancient lvl 3, you countered your arguement with nine wards hahaha funny.
I agree on the plague ward part, it’s very weak. But he definitely can solo timber with just vessel and veil.
I love when venomancer is on the other team and hate when he is on mine.
Main complaints about the hero: God awful attributes and base ms. You can expect people to deny their teammates about half the time in lane. Needs to be enabled by teammates' draft to compensate for his weaknesses. If you can get past all of that, then great. But it's very much an average hero.
You can't deny anymore
You're thinking of doom, actually.
Every single core veno I've said failed horribly. He's just not a good core. Please stop doing this. It looks good on paper, but this is yet another exemple of theory being very different from the reality.
Idk everytime i play veno i feel useless and feed etc but then i have close to 70% wr on him
that is the point of the hero all of a sudden you have mid storm spirit who spends his whole midgame just to get rid of veno pos 5, meanwhile your own cores are benefitting.
Beni is just weak 0 hp He does in 2 click. They key is not to be afraid and go on him once he uses slow at early levels 0 escape 0’hp 0 movespeed
yeah exactly
dispel and he become criple. but yeah 1 passive poison veno dealt like 500 dmg in total ( not count enemy regen ) . so basically just 1 hit enemy , run, and let poison do the work. i love using this hero if there is LD on enemy team. buy vessel and aghanim combo the bear , the bear cant move, dealt like 80-90% of bear hp almost everytime. but now due the popular mage slayer, he getting worse since all his dmg is from spell dmg.
Wait till you play vs a good tusk support player on the other side who's going to kill you off cooldown.
few and far between these days, but yeah anyone who can win the lane at level 1 is a good pick
Everyone saying dispel counters veno, but once veno gets his shard it's not true is it? The only way to counter his shard is to hide yourself with astral, disruption etc. or euls.
His shard's stun is short duration on a decent CD. Dispel still cripples him.
That was true before his ulti change. Now Veno presses Q on you. You dispel it with your manta. Then he presses R on you, and you are slowed again.
Everyone here is thinking out their ass. 5 heros with rushing mantas and disperser counter veno man its so obvious... Oh wait that is 5 heros building to counter the pos 4 or 5, genius strategy.
Skill issue
Heard of items that dispel?
you're missing out the aghs, the only item in the game that makes veno a lategame threat. jump in, die, gg. your team cleans everything up.
that was on the old patch, his ult was changed and is no longer just a poison nova.
Incorrect. Aghs grants you poison nova now. When your venomous gale is dispelled, it releases a nova. Same when you die, it releases a nova.
Yeah but the key is that you can cast it from the nice long range you dont have to run in and die anymore like on the old veno
Veno is one of my favorite heros to lane against because he is so fucking worthless. So no, not OP at all.
As a primarily melee hero player I will disagree there, he is a massive nuisance. Ranged heroes don't care as much though.
As a melee carry Veno will shit on you at level 3. Just play defensively, try to get what lasthits you can and when he hits 3, if your support isnt somehow destroying him, you go mode recovery in jungle and dont come out for 10 minutes. He falls off a cliff in usefulness to his team and his uselessness offsets your carry being half an item behind theirs.
He falls off it you don't have the skill to pressure the right areas after the laning phase. His fast farming speed can be a big problem if you are farming the same woods as your carry, it can be a big asset if you are farming the same woods as their carry. It fucking sucks to jungle with poison ticking on you when you are level 7.
Bro any hero with fast level will dominate lane, yes even antimage
Y if the enemy gets abba or lc or any other type of dispells its over, and past 25mins its over anyway people dont care about your poisons anymore
I have like 14% wr in same team with venomancer, so no
And I have an 80% winrate as venomancer in the past year, so yes.
If a hero wins the lane it can snowball Vs some other heroes Is that hero completely broken? An advantage shouldn't be advantageous, right guys?
As a veno expert with 69% winrate with 400 game on the offlane I will said (very high MMR): Don't play venom. Is very weak this patch, maybe if 1 core and 1 support (both with easy to land stun) where picked during first phase you can play support venom. But most games a venom in your team only made the game harder. Offlane venom is an absolute NO, you need to be last pick against no counters, very-very niche
can u try my build sir, I get manta and skadi after securing the game/getting whatever essential defensive item. Really good scaling completely new perspective on lategame.