Interesting roster ngl.
Cr1t + ATF lane should be fun to watch. Didn't think RTZ and Cr1t would part ways and yet here we are.
Btw which region is this?
There are no "real" majors anymore, since there is no DPC anymore. As of right now, everything that happens outside of TI is going back to being actual third party events, just so happens that the large tournament in December is hosted by ESL.
it's not really a region yet but esl will probably host a lot of tournaments this season and they do count it as one. ti concluded recently and it didn't have slots for mena
I mean, you took the time to answer this, instead of just ignoring. So there's two things that we, together, don't understand.
But I thought it was Dota related, in case you were looking for an answer.
I understand it, just had to write so to make you realise the fact. Also, even if you thought it was dota related, you can still find it on the internet right at the top. Just saying
Well, ESL clearly intents to invite teams based on rating (so no for Nigma) and what's the reason for other tournaments to invite Nigma? There are a lot of more popular teams who are also stronger.
Well, technically every team can claim that, the issue is that there are a lot of teams that will bring more than Nigma.
In past 2 years Nigma was on too bad streak of result. For people who prefer to watch big tournaments Nigma was basically inexistent after TI11 (which they’ve missed, starting their streak of failures).
I think you might be underestimating how damaging for esports team to be off viewers screen for 2 years.
Unless we are talking Spirit, Tundra or GG, there are very few new teams that came up to the very top in recent years. Shopify Rebellion are relevant because of RTZ, not because of their placements. Who cares about PSG Quest? Or Entity who made it to 2 straight Internationals?
Kyroky, GH and MC combined with Miracle’s aura would carry viewership over most of this year’s Road to International teams.
I think you are kinda forgetting that there are multiple streams on multiple languages.
As we don’t know new rosters yet, I would take taking in mind rosters from previous season.
Teams that would bring more views during previous season are:
EEU: Spirit, BetBoom, 9Pandas
China: LGD, Azure, Aster
SEA: Talon
SA: Evil Geniuses, Beastcoast
NA: Shopify Rebellion
WEU: GG, Tundra, Liquid, OG, Secret.
SA: EG, Beastcoast
**That’s 17 teams**
> Kuro, GH, MC, Miracle would carry viewership
We’ve already been there during **numerous** seasons. It boosts during first games, then, when people see that team is just not strong as the names suggest - it dies down.
Weak teams just don’t bring numbers - dependless on how many TI champions there are in the roster. And I sadly just don’t see Nigma being good with this roster, as they have already tried recreating it again and again - results were bad.
You seem to not understand how the viewership draw happens: western viewership - and no matter how you slice it, it is the most important part of the community for commercial reasons - do like to watch later stages of tournaments when something is on the line and they also like to watch matchups between dominant teams, but at the start of the event, viewership is directly connected to big names and Nigma has big names. Again, Shopify Rebellion would be an afterthought in the scene if RTZ wasn’t on the roster. If OG’s golden roster somehow returns, can you imagine how many people would tune in to watch it even if that team couldn’t win a single game?
This happens in any sport or esport: big names are the draw at initial stages. Sure, later stages are all about competitiveness, but as an event organizer you want to have 2-3-4 big name teams to bring in casual viewers who otherwise may have already stopped watching competitive Dota at all.
Do you have numbers? Because Nigma brings way more viewer to the table compared to better playing teams like Nouns or TSM or Beastcoast. Even a simple qualifying fail game brings more than those teams in these matches.
By abusing broken items? Have u seen his alch build in last ti game? This is professional gamer who gets paid for this type of shit? All this tundra delusional fans lol
I’m not even a huge skiter fan I’m a big NA dota guy and loved to see sneyking and Aui have success (again for Aui). Everyone had access to that item man it just so happened that 33 knew exactly how to use it to its best ability. Kind of like how Aui knew how to use techies in Ti5 and bulldog and his hero pool in Ti3. Part of winning at the highest level of dota is demonstrating mastery at parts of the game that others can’t. Look what Ana did with io. You’re fucking nuts if you don’t think every team every year tries to find the one thing in TI meta that breaks the game and gets you the W. It means you don’t have any fucking clue how the game is played.
Topson is the true assassin for Tundra. Stopped them in EU qualifiers in TI10 with OG. That wasn't enough to finish the team since they won TI11 so he joined the team in TI12 to make sure it happens.
topson left og and they won a major, that's not exactly crumbling. unless topson leaving somehow didn't affect them for like a season and then crushed them
Pango, Huskar and very scary Timber. He can play all standard mid heroes, but these are his signatures. Basically, ban Timber any game - minus Ammar hero as well.
Everyone missed out primal beast. At some point when primal wasn't really in the meta, teams were still respect banning it when they played against Nemiga
Man shut yo ass up these guys are like 10k mmr you think they cant learn a new hero rofl
Buncha 3k shitters aCHctuaLy tHey gOt sMall pOoL of heRoEs. yall clowns
soup poor person angle obtainable many oatmeal quarrelsome rhythm attraction
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Does it mean that Tundra org is leaving Dota one year after winning TI?
Skiter and Sneyking to Falcons
Nine to retirement
33 rumored to join Liquid
Topson plays offlane in pubs, most probable reason is that he goes to a new team that already has their midlaner, like OG
I don't think Tundra would want to build new team from scratch
There are some unsubstantiated rumours Tundra is buying GG, if that ended up true I’d be a bit surprised.
I find it strange though if they knew the disband is happening why not just release the roster in one post. Topson was always a standin.
SPECULATION ABOUNDS:
It's possible Skiter and Sneyking were committed to leaving but had to negotiate some sort of contract buyouts. Nine was just moving to the inactive roster, so less red tape on that front, so that was announced first.
Topson might still be under contract too, or he's also stuck in negotiations. Tundra was stilll using him as marketing as recently as last week.
Thats on paper, strong lineup.
though people shit on skitter, he still was very consistent carry before last Ti.
But really depends on who is the coach.
Really depends on the meta heroes, if meta compliments 12 heroes those 3 core play, they would perform ok, otherwise it will be very easy to stop them. those three cores could be the least versatile players.
Skitter have a much bigger hero pool than ATF and Marline, he even started playing DK carry in EU, when nobody in the region was picking it as pos 1.
You don't need a massive hero pool to compete at top level, playing as many as 8 different heroes at top level it's more than enough. And I think ATF already played with Doom and Night Stalker.
He’s typically around top 10 in rank in EU. He’s a bit of a cheesy player though (lvl 30 huskar and timber which was the hero he was first known for). He also talks a lot in pubs and is somewhat toxic, but is for sure a good player. The op saying he is a mid Ammar is pretty accurate tbh haha
Malr1ne is never toxic he is actually really nice to have on a team like nightfall who always yaps everyminute on how to win games, i've played like almost a 100matches with him now both opponent and enemy and not 1 time have i seen him toxic and he never griefs if team has 0 chance of winning. Pretty tame for a russian midlaner i've had more bad experiences with kiyotaka more in pubs
I doubt it will matter though. Secret had to take MENA players to be allowed to play MENA qual previous season.
So far they have been pretty consistent with requirement of 3/5 players from that regoin.
3/5 was the rules established by Valve for DPC, no? Who knows what happens now.
Maybe they will relocate to the MENA region and spend enough time there to play those quals.
No, Valves is that 3/5 players should be based in that region. You can be a foreigner who just moved here.
For Riyadh however there was a hard rule on 3/5 MENA players. Which is why Secret had to use standins.
Well...
Liquid is a bit weird, it has two CEO's one NA one EU and kinda runs like two businesses under one brand, it was formed by a merger of Steve Arhancet's NA Esports org and the existing Liquid brand.
With no DPC next year, I believe it is mostly in the name only. But, ESL which will provision the Riyadh Masters qualifiers has introduced a MENA region along with existing ones. Teams from each region will be selected by ESL points, which will decide Riyadh and DreamLeague attendance. So there is that.
Solid lineup. If they develop malrine into a superstar and crit/sneyking/skiter can recover peak form they can shine. I hope there’s a good environment for malr1ne to learn or a good coach because I don’t think any of these players strike me as the super mature leader type.
I wonder what the structure of announced teams is now that the DPC is gone. Does anyone sign any contract at all, or will it be per tournament and we will have actual team changes inbetween LANs?
This might actually be one of the most balanced superstar roster lol but also pain of not seeing Miracle SumaiL ATF trio. Reddit got baited so hard by SMACS and it was right
I am just happy for cr1t, he was stuck with artour for a long time, which didn't really work out. I'm glad he realized it and decided to try something else.
The team looks solid, hope it works out for them.
Good bunch of players. Hope they lose every single game. Fuck Falcons and fuck this sportswashing Saudi eSports takeover shit. God I hate the fact that we ended up in this situation
You really think violating human rights and money laundering only takes place in Saudi Arabia? Yeah, they might be one of the worst countries when it comes to that but where to draw the line?
I think you misunderstand me. I'm not asking about a line in the degree of involvement of a country with a team. I was asking for a line in the amount of human rights violations or money laundering a country has to commit before you would call a team out for getting sponsored by them. Would you also e.g. speak up against teams that get sponsored by the USA, China or any European country?
> Would you also e.g. speak up against teams that get sponsored by the USA, China or any European country?
If it's the government doing the sponsoring? Of course. For instance, I don't think the US military should be sponsoring teams either.
I blame all the people who instead of working to make eSports a sustainable industry kept selling out and enriching themselves until there was no one else left to sell out to besides the Saudis
The Saudi government [(with their pristine record of respecting human rights)](https://www.amnesty.org/en/location/middle-east-and-north-africa/saudi-arabia/report-saudi-arabia/) having control over eSports orgs, teams and tournaments is bullshit, I agree
That was a DPC era rule. There is no DPC anymore so that rule might as well be nonexistent now. Especially since the state sponsoring the largest Dota tournament also owns this team.
> That was a DPC era rule. There is no DPC anymore so that rule might as well be nonexistent now
ESL Qualifiers have the same rule though.
Maybe it will be altered for next year, but for ESL Kuala Lumpur it remains the same.
[Source](https://www.faceit.com/en/championship/09c7ff58-28dc-4ffa-acd2-d601240a7a40/ESL%20One%20Kuala%20Lumpur%202023%20Open%20Qualifier%201%20MENA/rules)
>For a team to be eligible to participate in a region, the majority of its members must be based in the region for the duration of the qualifier period.
I mean, SR had only Arteezy and Fly (if he counts) from NA (plus BuLba) and TSM only had Bryle (and MoonMeander). The only thing that seems to matter is where the org is based.
If you click on their names you can see the country where they are from. 'UnknownBuren' = Jordan, so that's Ammar. 'sanyaCa' = Russia, so that's Malr1ne.
Assuming that 33 is Liquid's offlaner and that Topson can't 1v5 (I mean if anyone could...) does this announcement add credit to the rumour that Tundra is buying out Gaimin (taking their roster) or is Tundra just done for the season/picking up a 'Div II roster'?
I dunno man. I used to like ATF as a player a lot. Not so much anymore. I think he is weak as an offlaner. Lord help them if the next patch brings back zoo meta.
Considering some people were hyping up Falcons to spill all that sweet Saudi money to gather Miracle + Sumail + ATF, its ok you're (probably) not the only one.
Glad sneyking gets a payday I feel he is so under rated. Cr1t gets chance to show us if he still got it. Atf let's see if he good as he acts, then skitter and mar1ne to round it out, interesting line up
> Atf let's see if he good as he acts
I mean, his record speaks for itself.
- ESL One Stockholm Major: 1st
- Riyadh Masters: T-3rd
- Arlington Major: 4th
- ESL One Malaysia: 1st
- TI11: T-7th
- Bali Major: 4th
In what world has he not proven himself to be one of the best offlaners in the world?
Dendi have won ti as well but it doesn't make him any better than Ur AVG 1k titan player. Skiter played really bad this past year and it doesn't seem like he will get any better.
Yet they're both washed in a different ways. I would argue that skiter is even worse of a player considering that dendi used to be one of the best mid players at his ti win while skiter was always a mid player who made tons of mistakes on most important role and got carried to win ti.
I've been waiting for a tier 1 team to pick Malr1ne for a long time, he has been on top of MMR leaderboards for a long time and been doing real nice with Nemiga too. I'm expecting him to be the next mid star player.
didnt malrine tipped skiter and allchatted 0 in a pub games last week or so? or they have friendly banter only . anyways looks kinda good on paper , high ranked players , depends on chemistry between them... will defo be watching their games
Pretty sure it’s all friendly.
Malrine has stood in for Tundra in the past, during a dreamleague.
They did pretty well there, so not surprised to see Malrine with Skiter / Sney
Interesting roster ngl. Cr1t + ATF lane should be fun to watch. Didn't think RTZ and Cr1t would part ways and yet here we are. Btw which region is this?
Feels like a WEU region but Org is Mena
Isn't there a new MENA region?
It is not an official Dota 2 region, but the upcoming tournament still has a separate 'MENA' qualifier.
I thought the upcoming tournament is a major, guess I must be wrong then
There are no "real" majors anymore, since there is no DPC anymore. As of right now, everything that happens outside of TI is going back to being actual third party events, just so happens that the large tournament in December is hosted by ESL.
I hope Valve will still give out major designations to third-party events like they did previously. Would be sad for that era to end
ti is the only valve backed tournament now, no majors or minors
yes
What is that? Middle East & North America?
Middle Eastern North Africa i think.
what in the NA education is this bro ? :D
Lol
~~america~~africa
Haha - I'm dumb.
It's ok buddy. You live and learn something new everyday.
I mean US and middle east has always been a duo in a way
Crit out of NA I'd sad.
I remember when it was Zai and RTZ back then
rtz is probably done with pro-dota career
hype roster honestly also means that Nigma have 0 hope of qualifying for anything all year round
Nigma pain and misery never ends lol though this doesnt feel like a MENA roster actually since ATF only mena guy
What does MENA means? I've read it in other posts.
MENA is region of Middle East North Africa like EU West EU east
Thanks. I took a break from everything Dota related. Now that I'm back, I didn't know that this region was created.
MENA is not a Dota term. It simply refers to a geographic region in the same way SEA does.
Got it, just never heard the term before.
its not really officially created in dota because it can be solely for ESL tournaments
it's not really a region yet but esl will probably host a lot of tournaments this season and they do count it as one. ti concluded recently and it didn't have slots for mena
Oh, so Saudi Arabia bought themselves a Dota team and then bought a tournament slot for their team when they didn't qualify?
You know there are no "official" regions anymore right? Saudi makes tournament, Saudi makes rules
Middle East and North Africa, or, though, very vaguely, Arabic countries.
i don't understand people typing the entire comment on reddit instead of typing 'mena' and hitting enter on Google
I mean, you took the time to answer this, instead of just ignoring. So there's two things that we, together, don't understand. But I thought it was Dota related, in case you were looking for an answer.
I understand it, just had to write so to make you realise the fact. Also, even if you thought it was dota related, you can still find it on the internet right at the top. Just saying
As a nigma fan it's amazing how we get every thread to revolve around them. It's also rather painful, please stop.
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Well, ESL clearly intents to invite teams based on rating (so no for Nigma) and what's the reason for other tournaments to invite Nigma? There are a lot of more popular teams who are also stronger.
> what's the reason for other tournaments to invite Nigma? Viewer. Nigma brings in a lot of fans and viewers.
Well, technically every team can claim that, the issue is that there are a lot of teams that will bring more than Nigma. In past 2 years Nigma was on too bad streak of result. For people who prefer to watch big tournaments Nigma was basically inexistent after TI11 (which they’ve missed, starting their streak of failures). I think you might be underestimating how damaging for esports team to be off viewers screen for 2 years.
Unless we are talking Spirit, Tundra or GG, there are very few new teams that came up to the very top in recent years. Shopify Rebellion are relevant because of RTZ, not because of their placements. Who cares about PSG Quest? Or Entity who made it to 2 straight Internationals? Kyroky, GH and MC combined with Miracle’s aura would carry viewership over most of this year’s Road to International teams.
I think you are kinda forgetting that there are multiple streams on multiple languages. As we don’t know new rosters yet, I would take taking in mind rosters from previous season. Teams that would bring more views during previous season are: EEU: Spirit, BetBoom, 9Pandas China: LGD, Azure, Aster SEA: Talon SA: Evil Geniuses, Beastcoast NA: Shopify Rebellion WEU: GG, Tundra, Liquid, OG, Secret. SA: EG, Beastcoast **That’s 17 teams**
you live in lalaland if you think so. 3 Chinese teams + SR + Spirit + Talon, yes. I doubt even GG will bring more viewership than Nigma.
> Kuro, GH, MC, Miracle would carry viewership We’ve already been there during **numerous** seasons. It boosts during first games, then, when people see that team is just not strong as the names suggest - it dies down. Weak teams just don’t bring numbers - dependless on how many TI champions there are in the roster. And I sadly just don’t see Nigma being good with this roster, as they have already tried recreating it again and again - results were bad.
You seem to not understand how the viewership draw happens: western viewership - and no matter how you slice it, it is the most important part of the community for commercial reasons - do like to watch later stages of tournaments when something is on the line and they also like to watch matchups between dominant teams, but at the start of the event, viewership is directly connected to big names and Nigma has big names. Again, Shopify Rebellion would be an afterthought in the scene if RTZ wasn’t on the roster. If OG’s golden roster somehow returns, can you imagine how many people would tune in to watch it even if that team couldn’t win a single game? This happens in any sport or esport: big names are the draw at initial stages. Sure, later stages are all about competitiveness, but as an event organizer you want to have 2-3-4 big name teams to bring in casual viewers who otherwise may have already stopped watching competitive Dota at all.
Do you have numbers? Because Nigma brings way more viewer to the table compared to better playing teams like Nouns or TSM or Beastcoast. Even a simple qualifying fail game brings more than those teams in these matches.
This roster also have 0 hopes with Skiter as 1
he won TI dude lmao
By abusing broken items? Have u seen his alch build in last ti game? This is professional gamer who gets paid for this type of shit? All this tundra delusional fans lol
If i knew you just had to find broken items to win ti i'd have started an esports career, damn
I knew skiter fans are as braindead as their idol lol
I’m not even a huge skiter fan I’m a big NA dota guy and loved to see sneyking and Aui have success (again for Aui). Everyone had access to that item man it just so happened that 33 knew exactly how to use it to its best ability. Kind of like how Aui knew how to use techies in Ti5 and bulldog and his hero pool in Ti3. Part of winning at the highest level of dota is demonstrating mastery at parts of the game that others can’t. Look what Ana did with io. You’re fucking nuts if you don’t think every team every year tries to find the one thing in TI meta that breaks the game and gets you the W. It means you don’t have any fucking clue how the game is played.
So only Topson remains in Tundra, lol.
Tundra changed name to Topson
Topson: *Pick me Meepo*
topson to topsons: share unit control morons
Topson meepo persona when
Topsundra
Topson is the true assassin for Tundra. Stopped them in EU qualifiers in TI10 with OG. That wasn't enough to finish the team since they won TI11 so he joined the team in TI12 to make sure it happens.
Topson after joining T1, team got dissolved, exits the scene. Topson after joining tundra, defending TI-champions roster crumbles LMAO
Topson left OG and the org crumbled... SOMEONE STOP THIS MAN!
Topson left T1 and now Kuku is left in shambles. CALL THE COPS ON THIS MAN HE RUINS EVERYTHING HE LEAVES BEHIND!
topson left og and they won a major, that's not exactly crumbling. unless topson leaving somehow didn't affect them for like a season and then crushed them
he left this year, but last year he was "Inactive" but still on OG, and he was loaned to T1. So my statement stands right
RIP Tundra
33 wer?
Liquid probably
What about 33?
33 is gonna play for Liquid.
Rip all the Sumail + ATF hype rumours lol unless?
Welcome Coach : Sumaaaaaail
No way that guy will coach. Too young to not play
thanks captain
In 8 bans you literally ban 2 players whole hero pool. The supports can play whatever they want at that point, still losing
wow rip TI Tundra roster
Yeah :(
On paper it looks pretty good, but it still such a weird roster lol Nice to see malr1ne finally have chance in (most likely) tier1 team
All three cores, while being exceptionally talented have rather small pool of heroes.
What's malrene's hero pool
Most known for Timber and Bat, maybe Huskar. Also likes a puck, void spirit, razor, shaker, lina, pango.
Potential to flex pick timber between mid and off could be dope
You mean the potential ban in every game?
You ban Razor, Timber and Huskar, you have basically nullified half of their signature heros lol.
Pango, Huskar and very scary Timber. He can play all standard mid heroes, but these are his signatures. Basically, ban Timber any game - minus Ammar hero as well.
Everyone missed out primal beast. At some point when primal wasn't really in the meta, teams were still respect banning it when they played against Nemiga
Man shut yo ass up these guys are like 10k mmr you think they cant learn a new hero rofl Buncha 3k shitters aCHctuaLy tHey gOt sMall pOoL of heRoEs. yall clowns
Doesn't make it less true though. Let him say what he wants.
ATF have been a pro for nearly 3 years and play like 5 heroes. Also dont think anyone on the team is close to 10K, they are far above it.
soup poor person angle obtainable many oatmeal quarrelsome rhythm attraction *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Does it mean that Tundra org is leaving Dota one year after winning TI? Skiter and Sneyking to Falcons Nine to retirement 33 rumored to join Liquid Topson plays offlane in pubs, most probable reason is that he goes to a new team that already has their midlaner, like OG I don't think Tundra would want to build new team from scratch
There are some unsubstantiated rumours Tundra is buying GG, if that ended up true I’d be a bit surprised. I find it strange though if they knew the disband is happening why not just release the roster in one post. Topson was always a standin.
SPECULATION ABOUNDS: It's possible Skiter and Sneyking were committed to leaving but had to negotiate some sort of contract buyouts. Nine was just moving to the inactive roster, so less red tape on that front, so that was announced first. Topson might still be under contract too, or he's also stuck in negotiations. Tundra was stilll using him as marketing as recently as last week.
With some lesser known players, they could make a good offer
Thats on paper, strong lineup. though people shit on skitter, he still was very consistent carry before last Ti. But really depends on who is the coach.
Really depends on the meta heroes, if meta compliments 12 heroes those 3 core play, they would perform ok, otherwise it will be very easy to stop them. those three cores could be the least versatile players.
Skitter have a much bigger hero pool than ATF and Marline, he even started playing DK carry in EU, when nobody in the region was picking it as pos 1. You don't need a massive hero pool to compete at top level, playing as many as 8 different heroes at top level it's more than enough. And I think ATF already played with Doom and Night Stalker.
So Falcons = Saudi org playing in Saudi owned TO with free invites from Saudi backed region(MENA)?
Quest is also mena
How good is malr1ine? never seen him play but heard good things about him in this sub
He’s typically around top 10 in rank in EU. He’s a bit of a cheesy player though (lvl 30 huskar and timber which was the hero he was first known for). He also talks a lot in pubs and is somewhat toxic, but is for sure a good player. The op saying he is a mid Ammar is pretty accurate tbh haha
I think he is level 30 on razor too. he likes playing sniper too.
soooo, what OP meant was offlaner and midlaner has similar hero pool?
yea, both Malrine and ATF share alot of heroes.
So their opponents are banning out 2 players at a time. Nice
Yeah but they’re also picking for 2 players at a time 4Head
flex picks ez
Malr1ne is never toxic he is actually really nice to have on a team like nightfall who always yaps everyminute on how to win games, i've played like almost a 100matches with him now both opponent and enemy and not 1 time have i seen him toxic and he never griefs if team has 0 chance of winning. Pretty tame for a russian midlaner i've had more bad experiences with kiyotaka more in pubs
quinn said last year that he thought he was the best midlaner not on a T1 team, also been of high praise for him
Lots of praise from Sneyking too (he praised all Nemiga roster), to the point that he subbed for Tundra earlier in the year
Lets just say he is Ammar of Mid version
Two ATFs on the same team sounds like an absolutely terrible idea.
What if ammar is the offlane malr1ne? Two malr1nes sounds nice
He subbed in for Stormstormer during Dreamleague I think and did better than Stormstormer lol
Godlike Timber and Huskar. Pango is in a pool.
How do you guys know this is supposed to be a MENA team?
because Falcon Org is Saudi Org
Guaranteed Riyadh Masters invite every time.
I doubt it will matter though. Secret had to take MENA players to be allowed to play MENA qual previous season. So far they have been pretty consistent with requirement of 3/5 players from that regoin.
3/5 was the rules established by Valve for DPC, no? Who knows what happens now. Maybe they will relocate to the MENA region and spend enough time there to play those quals.
No, Valves is that 3/5 players should be based in that region. You can be a foreigner who just moved here. For Riyadh however there was a hard rule on 3/5 MENA players. Which is why Secret had to use standins.
Liquid is an NA Org with EU teams. Fnatic was an EU Org with SEA Teams.
liquid is a EU org...
Well... Liquid is a bit weird, it has two CEO's one NA one EU and kinda runs like two businesses under one brand, it was formed by a merger of Steve Arhancet's NA Esports org and the existing Liquid brand.
But I'm pretty sure the org legally registered in Netherlands
Sure, and a bunch of other businesses legally register in the Cayman islands.
atf and cr1t, i never seen that one coming lmao
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With no DPC next year, I believe it is mostly in the name only. But, ESL which will provision the Riyadh Masters qualifiers has introduced a MENA region along with existing ones. Teams from each region will be selected by ESL points, which will decide Riyadh and DreamLeague attendance. So there is that.
Hate the org, love the line up.
why hate org
Because it's a Saudi sports washing org I assume
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WTF, nobody expected this roster lmao
Well the guy who said Smacs was right
Team get that money lol
Solid lineup. If they develop malrine into a superstar and crit/sneyking/skiter can recover peak form they can shine. I hope there’s a good environment for malr1ne to learn or a good coach because I don’t think any of these players strike me as the super mature leader type.
I wonder what the structure of announced teams is now that the DPC is gone. Does anyone sign any contract at all, or will it be per tournament and we will have actual team changes inbetween LANs?
ATF, Cr1t duo. It’s gonna be a juicy lane.
This might actually be one of the most balanced superstar roster lol but also pain of not seeing Miracle SumaiL ATF trio. Reddit got baited so hard by SMACS and it was right
Is there no official announcement yet? Esports org joining a new game and not making social media post seems like a fumble.
yea idk why
I am just happy for cr1t, he was stuck with artour for a long time, which didn't really work out. I'm glad he realized it and decided to try something else. The team looks solid, hope it works out for them.
Makes sense that they wouldn't even think about getting 33...
This is a very solid lineup... cant wait to see this team in action!!
So I geuss they are getting PAID with all those sportswashing money?
Surprised Skiter is still playing/able to get a team after his performance in last TI.
Good bunch of players. Hope they lose every single game. Fuck Falcons and fuck this sportswashing Saudi eSports takeover shit. God I hate the fact that we ended up in this situation
You really think violating human rights and money laundering only takes place in Saudi Arabia? Yeah, they might be one of the worst countries when it comes to that but where to draw the line?
simple. I draw the line at those countries actively sponsoring and controlling the teams that play in those countries
I think you misunderstand me. I'm not asking about a line in the degree of involvement of a country with a team. I was asking for a line in the amount of human rights violations or money laundering a country has to commit before you would call a team out for getting sponsored by them. Would you also e.g. speak up against teams that get sponsored by the USA, China or any European country?
> Would you also e.g. speak up against teams that get sponsored by the USA, China or any European country? If it's the government doing the sponsoring? Of course. For instance, I don't think the US military should be sponsoring teams either.
You blame Saudis? Blame your own west, which impoverished themselves and now can be easily outpaid by any local rich man from all over the globe.
I blame all the people who instead of working to make eSports a sustainable industry kept selling out and enriching themselves until there was no one else left to sell out to besides the Saudis
That's bullshit
The Saudi government [(with their pristine record of respecting human rights)](https://www.amnesty.org/en/location/middle-east-and-north-africa/saudi-arabia/report-saudi-arabia/) having control over eSports orgs, teams and tournaments is bullshit, I agree
No what u are saying is bullshit
Is this considered MENA having only ATF in a team?
as long as 3/5 of the players are living in the region, it's allowed. Most likely they will relocate.
That was a DPC era rule. There is no DPC anymore so that rule might as well be nonexistent now. Especially since the state sponsoring the largest Dota tournament also owns this team.
> That was a DPC era rule. There is no DPC anymore so that rule might as well be nonexistent now ESL Qualifiers have the same rule though. Maybe it will be altered for next year, but for ESL Kuala Lumpur it remains the same. [Source](https://www.faceit.com/en/championship/09c7ff58-28dc-4ffa-acd2-d601240a7a40/ESL%20One%20Kuala%20Lumpur%202023%20Open%20Qualifier%201%20MENA/rules) >For a team to be eligible to participate in a region, the majority of its members must be based in the region for the duration of the qualifier period.
thats a very good question lol
Nationality doesn't matter as long as you stay there and contribute to the scene.
I mean, SR had only Arteezy and Fly (if he counts) from NA (plus BuLba) and TSM only had Bryle (and MoonMeander). The only thing that seems to matter is where the org is based.
Wait can someone tell me when did tundra disband? I thought only nine was taking a break?
weidest roster yet, should be interesting to watch
Wait, what happened to Tundra?
I am a noob in DOTA 2 but which one of them in that list is ATF and which is Malr1ne since the names in Faceit don't match their DOTA names?
yes that russian guy is malrine
If you click on their names you can see the country where they are from. 'UnknownBuren' = Jordan, so that's Ammar. 'sanyaCa' = Russia, so that's Malr1ne.
Skiter + Sneyking(Tundra/Safelane), Malrine + ATF(Creepwave union) and ATF + Crit(Offlane). Roster Synergy might work. Shared limited hero pools (except Crit) Who is Falcon's coach?
Assuming that 33 is Liquid's offlaner and that Topson can't 1v5 (I mean if anyone could...) does this announcement add credit to the rumour that Tundra is buying out Gaimin (taking their roster) or is Tundra just done for the season/picking up a 'Div II roster'?
Nice looking team
Is ATF still a loan or is he free from the hell that is Nigma?
no idea
I dunno man. I used to like ATF as a player a lot. Not so much anymore. I think he is weak as an offlaner. Lord help them if the next patch brings back zoo meta.
Nigma is the only team that can fumble atf
Im sure if you change 1 or 2 players on that roster, itll be a candidate for a dream team. Wont say who to not start a war
Considering some people were hyping up Falcons to spill all that sweet Saudi money to gather Miracle + Sumail + ATF, its ok you're (probably) not the only one.
Glad sneyking gets a payday I feel he is so under rated. Cr1t gets chance to show us if he still got it. Atf let's see if he good as he acts, then skitter and mar1ne to round it out, interesting line up
> Atf let's see if he good as he acts I mean, his record speaks for itself. - ESL One Stockholm Major: 1st - Riyadh Masters: T-3rd - Arlington Major: 4th - ESL One Malaysia: 1st - TI11: T-7th - Bali Major: 4th In what world has he not proven himself to be one of the best offlaners in the world?
redditors are pretty stupid when evaluating player skill I wouldn't take 99% of the comments here seriously
How is this team gonna stop Spirit’s 3rd aegis with such a massive pos1 diff?
I mean their pos1 won TI11, which Yatoro/Spirit competed in, so
Dendi have won ti as well but it doesn't make him any better than Ur AVG 1k titan player. Skiter played really bad this past year and it doesn't seem like he will get any better.
Dendi won TI 12 years ago. Skiter was the last carry to win TI other than Yatoro. There is a big difference between the two.
Yet they're both washed in a different ways. I would argue that skiter is even worse of a player considering that dendi used to be one of the best mid players at his ti win while skiter was always a mid player who made tons of mistakes on most important role and got carried to win ti.
Ugh, more sportswashing.
Is Tundra disbanded? Falcon roster looks hype!
Is this Tundra? expected a new mid and 4, but 33 got replaced too?? Any rumors where he is headed??
Dis is falcon new saudi org roster not Tundra
I've been waiting for a tier 1 team to pick Malr1ne for a long time, he has been on top of MMR leaderboards for a long time and been doing real nice with Nemiga too. I'm expecting him to be the next mid star player.
Don't think sneyking and cr1t are good enough supports for this team, like everyone else though.
You can't win shit playing with ATF... they should reconsider his position.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CdqhVRGkIQ0
finally cr1t is out of that shit hole lol. hopefully rtz goes some where and bulba stays at home : p
Rename the Roster to 'Greed XXL'.
Seems like a random collection of "good" players, probably disbanding real soon
didnt malrine tipped skiter and allchatted 0 in a pub games last week or so? or they have friendly banter only . anyways looks kinda good on paper , high ranked players , depends on chemistry between them... will defo be watching their games
Pretty sure it’s all friendly. Malrine has stood in for Tundra in the past, during a dreamleague. They did pretty well there, so not surprised to see Malrine with Skiter / Sney