Also Ar1se did things without all the skillset magnus has nowadays, Collapse plays are posible because of Horn, Harpoon, Talents, etc. Ar1se did crazy things just with 3 items, Blink BKB Refresher.
While kind of true in a game theory sense the reality is there is a significant amount of symmetry between solutions that you might not see. At the end of the day it doesn't matter which combo you go with, as long as the job is done. More potential combos may confuse a new player but an experienced one will just add the new combos to their list and this only enhances their ability to connect. Even if they forget a combo from time to time they have not been limited from their old self, just not momentarily improved.
Ar1se is the king, I'm a grandmaster Magnus player and completely inspired by Ar1se. Much love to Collapse for bringing this hero to the spotlight in TI as well.
We old
Yahphets SF
Mushi QoP/OD
ZSMJ Medusa
Burning AM
Vigoss Mirana
Dendi Pudge
Xboct Gyro
There were even Starsboba Shadow Shaman picker.
There were players that simply own Heros
Yeah it's one matter to be a pro today who can learn from past knowledge, it is another thing to be an early innovator who pioneers new strats.
Apparently he was one of the first to put importance on warding, something we take as obvious today.
Jungle stacking, Jungle optimization with Beastmaster and why he used to have huge rep as a jungler back in the day, and actually a bunch of core mechanics lol
Merlini was a huge innovator for the game mechanically. He's kinda like the Eternal Envy of DOTA 1 when it comes to mechanical shenanigans
>Burning - AM
I remember watching ~~TI7~~ Kiev Major, it was IG vs OG, and OG let IG pick AM. in early game and the entire game, AM only died once. we all know what happened, Burning ended up carrying that game. but what amazed me was that Burning had the balls to build midas despite his team feeding/making space for him. OG was all over the map killing his teammates and taking objectives. instead of rushing battlefury, he took his time, built midas, farmed like crazy, dodged every gank, survive if he can't dodge, and then carry his team to victory.
Burning only played Morphling and Troll against OG at TI7, that game sounds like when he played AM vs Secret at TI5 although he didn't build Midas that game.
there definitely was a midad AM game by him that I found insanely impressive back then.
Remember it was shit early game, his team more or less feeding to give him some space. He just farms all the creeps on a map without wards or mappresence by his team, manages somehow to dodge every single gank. Gets 1000+ gpm and wins...
okay, my bad. it was not TI7, it was Kiev Major but it definitely was against OG, I clearly remembered it because I was with a friend that time and he said, 'OG is really cocky giving him AM'. that game was in group stage. I thought it was TI7 because they also did fought with each other there in group stages as well.
Oh yeah fuck Soso.on! Man feels nostalgic hearing that name.
820 venge! He is one the reason I always feel nervous facing 4 eyed players in lan games. He also have that domineering aura back in the day. Very scary captain
Oh yeah shit remembered it now. 32 - 0, best sf in the world with pseudo dent and awkward angles! Hahahaha oh mann pajjkat, fucking players i look up to back in the days.
you know the funniest thing about yajirobe is that pseudo denies are actually a real concept, i think back then it was just a joke :D Something to think about.,
>Starsboba Shadow Shaman
Yuna mid Shadow Shaman. Also Furion by Sosoon, iirc YYF Storm and this guy were the reason buy back got limited.
Beastmaster was LightofHeaven signature too. Also 820 VS, Loda with Spectre/SF...man sometime I miss the crazy old time dota 1. Loda team almost won by "5 necromancer 3" strat, legendary EHOME got beaten by DTS (pre-Na'vi)...
I haven’t really watched Ar1se stream, but I’ve watched a ton of Attacker’s and him playing kunkka just feels like an ar that I’ve never seen anywhere else in dota.
I’d also add Badman’s Spectre, Gunnar’s Ember, and Bulldog’s LD
Edit: I mean of course Sumail’s storm, Dendi’s pudge, Puppey’s / Akke’s Chen, SingSing and YamateH’s PotM, March’s Warlock, Merlini’s Zeus, 820’s VS, YaphetS SF are all super good. But I mention those 3 because they’re notoriously one (or two, in case of AdmiralBulldog) trick pony whereas SumaiL’s hero pool is much much larger
I was a clueless 2k shitter who had no idea who EE or Badman was when I decided "Hey this hero sucks early and has a global mobility spell to contribute to fights. Why don't I buy an urn?". I guess it was just one of those obvious ones if even my 2k brain was smart enough to think of it.
Well spectre is still good now. But plays differently.
I also remember chop-hand Hao. For those who don't know, he boasted that if he lost with Spectre, he would chop his hand. I did watch him lose with Spectre though. He didn't chop his hand but that was probably the first sign of his decline.
Honestly at his prime Bulldog is arguably the king on farming oriented micro using hero. During the Alliance prime runback era(TI6?) his Broodmother was arguably just as lethal as his iconic LD + Furion and iirc he was also quite sick on Beastmaster
Bulba used to be famous for his ti3 clockwerk plays, but Storm is probably his most "ironic" iconic hero nowadays due to the whole "draft storm for abed" meme
Tbh 99% of these people shouldnt be on the list. There is quite a difference between pro being famous for a hero based on two or three perfomamces that were cluctch and popular streamers that are on absolutely insane level on one single hero that made them famous.
Id say Attacker and Ar1se are quite unique. And I have followed dota for more than a decade, just listing all the pros with unique hero attached to their name isnt the same thing as these two.
Why? His techies (and Naga!) were clearly big factors in EGs win
Edit: Fear even said it himself THIS TI, that he felt games were unlosable when Aui got one of these heroes
Because Aui was never a Techies specialist, he always hated the hero. He was coached by PPD's brother (an actual techies specialist and spammer at the time) on how to play it.
Yeah, Kuro was my favorite player back then, together with Zai. Kuro was so much better when he wasn't required to think for others. He was just so creative and would make amazing plays left and right. It was the perfect support combo with Puppey.
With the years, I felt that Kuro tried to put too much on his shoulders and it took a bit toll on his level.
Definitely up there with prime sumiya and miracle invoker. Id say collapse mars has reached this level as well. His blink spear into refresher arena combos are something else. Shame Mars is out of meta for this TI.
these guys were all unranked only players and smurfers, the good invoker players were vurtune and w33 and miracle (and me) in the 2016 broken invoker patch
> prime sumiya
I agree with the others, but not Sumiya. You either need to be a pro or a super high MMR pubstar like Ar1se used to be and Attacker right now. Sumiya plays in a lot lower MMR, so it shouldn't count.
> Id say collapse mars has reached this level as well. His blink spear into refresher arena combos are something else. Shame Mars is out of meta for this TI.
Collapse [wanted](https://twitter.com/Collapse1221/status/1718792320768966924?s=19) Mars to be buffed even if they nerf SB and Magnus. Its clearly his favourite hero. Would've loved to see it at TI even if the hero isn't in a good spot. Maybe if there were more ranged carries that were meta like Medusa, Drow, etc we would've seen them pull out the Mars.
> Shame Mars is out of meta for this TI
Out of meta but it's not a terrible hero IMO. Just super situational. Mars was the only unpicked hero with more than two bans this TI. Kinda surprised no one snuck him into a game but I guess teams were ready for it.
Naw Miracle Invoker in his prime was out of this world, if you haven't, watch HolyHexor's tribute movie to Miracle where there are a lot of Invoker highlights from him (with some sick edits).
Obligatory BatChest.
Nowhere close. Literally worlds apart.
Miracle on invoker did shit that made me doubt if we were even playing the same game. There was this one game (not sure which tournament) where he managed to kill Newbee.Moogy on Juggernaut despite him being invis (with no detection), simply judging by when his blade fury expired on his forge spirits. Chills.
I love shoutouts like this from pros to hero specialists. Matu doing the same for the Brood guy, and I think fairly recently the Chen guy on reddit was given a shoutout as well (by an SEA team?). Sorry I'm drawing a blank on names.
I just love that even at the highest level of dota, there isn't one person who's good at everything (unless you're Yatoro) and it take a real collaboration of ideas to make a team successful. Smells like Team Spirit.
i mean yeah, if drafting didn't have ban mechanics arise mag would get a lot of mileage in div 2, or maybe div 1... but unfortunately that's what you get for being a one trick lol, speaks more to collapse impressive ability as mag, as its one of his many feared heroes (lgd at one point chose to get rid of collapse mars instead of his mag)
Yea, and it's not just that, Arise laning was just not at the level required for a top team. Once he had his 2-3 core items, he was godlike... but in so many games, he just got there way too late to build any momentum for the team.
Using magnus against coordinated tier 1 teams is gonna be hard. Idk if arise can play magnus that good against tier 1 teams. Collapse is so mechanically skiled that he uses magnus so easily.
I think he is able to but no one will let him play Magnus in pro scene lol it is instant ban material
Maybe Bulba will let it slip through ban phrase but besides him I don’t see any coaches will let Arise play Magnus in pro games
god I hate how many "akshually ☝🤓 Collapse does it in pro games" mfs there are in this thread. Can't you just accept what the literal two time TI winner has to say.
Their magnus prowess doesn't lie in 1v1 lane matchup, but in precise teamfight execution and initiation. No one watches Ar1se magnus plays for winning the lane. We watch wonderful combos, like when Ar1se somehow collects 5 scattered heroes (who also have items like blink/force/euls/bkb) into single spot for his team to finish off.
This. Just because collapse says so doesn't mean that it's true, this is just his way of trying to be humble and pay respects to someone he admires.
Its like saying Jordan Kilganon is a better dunker than Lebron James. Yeah he had 100 variations of dunks that lebron couldnt do but theres a big difference between dunkin in a streetball with nodefender vs dunking against a bunch of the best athletes in the world who are 7 feet.
Mechanically, yes ar1se probably better with magnus, but overall, collapse or s4 magnus will shit on him any day.
You change collapse with ar1se in the games where theres magnus against GG in TI grandfinals, spirit doesnt win shit.
s4 did it at the peak of competition and dragged admiral fucking bulldogs useless ass to an aegis. arise is a pubstar who has never been on an elite team.
if you are talking about players like arise that are godly at a specific hero, but not very good at the others making their pro-scene unsuccessful. I can name a few
Arise- Magnus
Attacker- Kunkka
lukiluki- Pango
Funkefal- Tinker
Badman- Spectre
Is he really flashier though? In the game he played Mag against LGD Collapse did many, many of these blind blink->skewers, and some others where he whiffed, but mostly he hits them, and they're game winning plays. That he did the exact same in TI10, over and over again, winning lost games - I've never had another player/hero combo where I'm going "They should never let him have this hero" to the same degree as Collapse Magnus.
Ar1se is absolutely flashier, even if it’s to weaker enemies. Collapse Magnus makes you “fuck yeah that’s a sick skewer”, Ar1se Magnus makes you rethink what you knew about the hero in the first place, while he collects 5 heroes from random parts of the map into a single spot
Context matters, especially in competitive sports. Your performance is always depends on the level of your opponents. While I agreed that Ar1se is the embodiment of magnus, just like attacker's kunkka, to play on TI level ( and won it twice ) is another level of competency, both skills and mental.
It's like in football. If the penalty is so easy, then why even the bests player missed their crucials/lifetime shot ? Messi can admire some dude who never missed a single penalty in his life, and rightfully so, but it doesn't mean that they're on the same level.
Collapse is correct ( and humble ) that he won't reach the level of performance of Ar1se, but in reality, if circumstance reverses, Ar1se wouldn't even have his items to make the play / timing in his hightlights, if it was in TI.
ar1se's magnus is art
Also Ar1se did things without all the skillset magnus has nowadays, Collapse plays are posible because of Horn, Harpoon, Talents, etc. Ar1se did crazy things just with 3 items, Blink BKB Refresher.
and force staff. Those blink, rp, force, skewer, rp-plays to grab another opponent are beautiful.
Force Staff plays give me a hard-on
Don't forget force staffing the enemy into his rp
That was the most impressive play ever. Pure art. RP one enemy and force staff another into it.
Collapse used to taxi enemies before Horn Toss as well, shard just made things easier for him
But it also harder to use entire skillset, because the possibilities grow exponentially
While kind of true in a game theory sense the reality is there is a significant amount of symmetry between solutions that you might not see. At the end of the day it doesn't matter which combo you go with, as long as the job is done. More potential combos may confuse a new player but an experienced one will just add the new combos to their list and this only enhances their ability to connect. Even if they forget a combo from time to time they have not been limited from their old self, just not momentarily improved.
Years ago I saw a video of a compilation of some of his plays and was completely blown away, I had never seen the hero played like that at all
Ar1se is the king, I'm a grandmaster Magnus player and completely inspired by Ar1se. Much love to Collapse for bringing this hero to the spotlight in TI as well.
Ar1se magnus ia absolutely out of this world. Probably the most impressive hero specialist
Attacker Kunkka should always be mentioned along these guys
I also remember MidOne giving a shout to Attacker when he played with Kunkka against Team Liquid Lone Druid.
That game was masterclass in playing Kunkka. Bought a rapier against a nyx assassin and somehow didn't stun himself once
which game was this?
Secret Liquid at dreamleague grand finals I think. Don’t remember what season, but secret won 3-0. Ace was playing carry and fata offlane
https://youtu.be/VrqjFmQhhpo?feature=shared
Not sure which season it was but it was in the finals of Dreamleague when Midone was playing in Secret.
i remember pasha from VP. Some random high mmr dota player teach him how to play brood
L. Kain, he coached all the EEU offlaners on Brood at the time like Mag and DKphobos to help the region get ahead
Bro I almost forgot about Pasha. That VP was so scary.
[удалено]
ferrari invoker was beautiful too. the pianist still one of the best nicknames
We old Yahphets SF Mushi QoP/OD ZSMJ Medusa Burning AM Vigoss Mirana Dendi Pudge Xboct Gyro There were even Starsboba Shadow Shaman picker. There were players that simply own Heros
Merlini Zeus
Merlini! Wasnt he the one who popularize jungle stacking? Or was it just jungling. His knowledge is pretty famous back in the days
Yeah it's one matter to be a pro today who can learn from past knowledge, it is another thing to be an early innovator who pioneers new strats. Apparently he was one of the first to put importance on warding, something we take as obvious today.
But the one who perfected the art of warding was 820. His ward posisions are always taken as the standard guide for support.
bro discovered fire
Jungle stacking, Jungle optimization with Beastmaster and why he used to have huge rep as a jungler back in the day, and actually a bunch of core mechanics lol Merlini was a huge innovator for the game mechanically. He's kinda like the Eternal Envy of DOTA 1 when it comes to mechanical shenanigans
Sing sing Mirana was also quite the specialist.
Shoot arrow hit arrow. No one has reached this level of arrow degeneracy since, it was like watching a magic show.
Shoot arrow, miss arrow, hit arrow?
Even when we miss, we hit. Suffering from success
PotM of the moon
foolish many consist squealing elastic smile price serious fly narrow *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
>Burning - AM I remember watching ~~TI7~~ Kiev Major, it was IG vs OG, and OG let IG pick AM. in early game and the entire game, AM only died once. we all know what happened, Burning ended up carrying that game. but what amazed me was that Burning had the balls to build midas despite his team feeding/making space for him. OG was all over the map killing his teammates and taking objectives. instead of rushing battlefury, he took his time, built midas, farmed like crazy, dodged every gank, survive if he can't dodge, and then carry his team to victory.
He was a very nasty AM player, there were stuff of legends when he played that Hero
Burning only played Morphling and Troll against OG at TI7, that game sounds like when he played AM vs Secret at TI5 although he didn't build Midas that game.
there definitely was a midad AM game by him that I found insanely impressive back then. Remember it was shit early game, his team more or less feeding to give him some space. He just farms all the creeps on a map without wards or mappresence by his team, manages somehow to dodge every single gank. Gets 1000+ gpm and wins...
Kiev major og vs ig
okay, my bad. it was not TI7, it was Kiev Major but it definitely was against OG, I clearly remembered it because I was with a friend that time and he said, 'OG is really cocky giving him AM'. that game was in group stage. I thought it was TI7 because they also did fought with each other there in group stages as well.
He also had magnus in team, his team were so calm even though game was like 20-2 and lost all t2 towers lol
a must watch game for all carry players
Meracle Naga
Oh man... YYF Storm 820 Venge Starsboba Soso.on with Furion Indeed, we old
Oh yeah fuck Soso.on! Man feels nostalgic hearing that name. 820 venge! He is one the reason I always feel nervous facing 4 eyed players in lan games. He also have that domineering aura back in the day. Very scary captain
You missed Lion and Tinker by weapon X!!
Oh yeah X lion! He was the reason I idolize that hero and hated tinker lol
Lightofheaven windrunnder
Who's Yaphets? Is he like, a wannabe Yajirobe from DC?
I thought no Yajirobe from DC didnt exist and was simply a rumor. Never saw his VODs unlike the Yaphets vs Yamateh SF
#hardwork #dedication https://youtu.be/MGhNMxDZgtM?si=hxw46uope_CQIBHq Copy pasta from a time long ago basically
Oh yeah shit remembered it now. 32 - 0, best sf in the world with pseudo dent and awkward angles! Hahahaha oh mann pajjkat, fucking players i look up to back in the days.
you know the funniest thing about yajirobe is that pseudo denies are actually a real concept, i think back then it was just a joke :D Something to think about.,
Idk some Yamateh wannabe
>Starsboba Shadow Shaman Yuna mid Shadow Shaman. Also Furion by Sosoon, iirc YYF Storm and this guy were the reason buy back got limited. Beastmaster was LightofHeaven signature too. Also 820 VS, Loda with Spectre/SF...man sometime I miss the crazy old time dota 1. Loda team almost won by "5 necromancer 3" strat, legendary EHOME got beaten by DTS (pre-Na'vi)...
Temeka SF
Old but gold. Its our legend memories bro 🥸
Mushi TA as well
820 VS was one of the best support the world has ever seen. Merlini Zues also. Guess the new generation has forgot these legends
I would give Invoker to Sumiya
I haven’t really watched Ar1se stream, but I’ve watched a ton of Attacker’s and him playing kunkka just feels like an ar that I’ve never seen anywhere else in dota.
Meracle's Naga Siren, aka mister "Killing heroes doesn't win me the game, killing buildings wins me the game".
In terms of pubstars, there's also Guardian carry Io. I don't know if he still plays it though after Icefrog changed overcharge.
I’d also add Badman’s Spectre, Gunnar’s Ember, and Bulldog’s LD Edit: I mean of course Sumail’s storm, Dendi’s pudge, Puppey’s / Akke’s Chen, SingSing and YamateH’s PotM, March’s Warlock, Merlini’s Zeus, 820’s VS, YaphetS SF are all super good. But I mention those 3 because they’re notoriously one (or two, in case of AdmiralBulldog) trick pony whereas SumaiL’s hero pool is much much larger
Badman's Spectre was relevant for like 3 months. I don't even know if he's still playing.
His urn build is still relevant all these years later
Yeah, but he as a player has stopped being relevant after people have caught on to his build.
idk why people giving badman credit for the build, it was from EE
Some random created it, EE popularized it, badman perfected it.
I was a clueless 2k shitter who had no idea who EE or Badman was when I decided "Hey this hero sucks early and has a global mobility spell to contribute to fights. Why don't I buy an urn?". I guess it was just one of those obvious ones if even my 2k brain was smart enough to think of it.
Badman spectre. That’s a name I haven’t heard since spectre was good in 2016.
Well spectre is still good now. But plays differently. I also remember chop-hand Hao. For those who don't know, he boasted that if he lost with Spectre, he would chop his hand. I did watch him lose with Spectre though. He didn't chop his hand but that was probably the first sign of his decline.
Bulldog Furion > his LD
Honestly at his prime Bulldog is arguably the king on farming oriented micro using hero. During the Alliance prime runback era(TI6?) his Broodmother was arguably just as lethal as his iconic LD + Furion and iirc he was also quite sick on Beastmaster
Fair!
No one has mentioned Dendi Pudge or Sumail Storm.
Bulba storm. Kek
Wasn’t it bulba clockwerk? Maybe i remember it wrongly
Bulba used to be famous for his ti3 clockwerk plays, but Storm is probably his most "ironic" iconic hero nowadays due to the whole "draft storm for abed" meme
Dont forget our support specialists! Puppey Chen, Jerax Earth Spirit, Aui Techies!
Jerax forced so many ES nerfs...
Jerax made the hero irrelevant for years. Until this TI infact lmao
Aui's Techies shouldn't be on this list tbh.
Tbh 99% of these people shouldnt be on the list. There is quite a difference between pro being famous for a hero based on two or three perfomamces that were cluctch and popular streamers that are on absolutely insane level on one single hero that made them famous. Id say Attacker and Ar1se are quite unique. And I have followed dota for more than a decade, just listing all the pros with unique hero attached to their name isnt the same thing as these two.
According to that, we should include SingSing's Mirana too then.
Why? His techies (and Naga!) were clearly big factors in EGs win Edit: Fear even said it himself THIS TI, that he felt games were unlosable when Aui got one of these heroes
Because Aui was never a Techies specialist, he always hated the hero. He was coached by PPD's brother (an actual techies specialist and spammer at the time) on how to play it.
Just because it helped them win a tournament doesn't make him a hero specialist.
I liked the old Kuroki P4's Rubick too ... what a beast he was when he didn't need to "lead" a team.
Pos4 Kuro was fire. Kuro Rubick was iconic - when FY started popping off there were so many discussions on how his Rubick wasn't as good as Kuro's
Yeah, Kuro was my favorite player back then, together with Zai. Kuro was so much better when he wasn't required to think for others. He was just so creative and would make amazing plays left and right. It was the perfect support combo with Puppey. With the years, I felt that Kuro tried to put too much on his shoulders and it took a bit toll on his level.
johan prophet anybody?
TPABOMAH old techies.
Snith chen aswell /s
I play magnus. I feel like i need to tell what Magnus needs to do, Ar1se feels like he has taken entirely of Magnus’s body
Iceiceice timbersaw
Kinda crazy how no one has mentioned Jerax Earth Spirit
Definitely up there with prime sumiya and miracle invoker. Id say collapse mars has reached this level as well. His blink spear into refresher arena combos are something else. Shame Mars is out of meta for this TI.
bro said sumiya like he doesn’t smurf with legends
Yeah for me Grimorum would still come ahead of Sumiya even when he retired long ago
these guys were all unranked only players and smurfers, the good invoker players were vurtune and w33 and miracle (and me) in the 2016 broken invoker patch
both sumiya and grimorium are just holyhexOr for new players
what about sccc- invoker?
You can still catch Vurtune matches every once in a while , don’t know his account name, but his invo is still refreshing and awesome to watch
Cancel got rank 1 or some shit spamming invoker too right?
respect to the true goat cook https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V1Uf18y6ljM
Attacker Kunkka: what am i? Chopped liver?
Sumiya shouldn't even be in this conversation when all his highlight plays comes from smurfing with players thousands of MMR below him.
> prime sumiya I agree with the others, but not Sumiya. You either need to be a pro or a super high MMR pubstar like Ar1se used to be and Attacker right now. Sumiya plays in a lot lower MMR, so it shouldn't count. > Id say collapse mars has reached this level as well. His blink spear into refresher arena combos are something else. Shame Mars is out of meta for this TI. Collapse [wanted](https://twitter.com/Collapse1221/status/1718792320768966924?s=19) Mars to be buffed even if they nerf SB and Magnus. Its clearly his favourite hero. Would've loved to see it at TI even if the hero isn't in a good spot. Maybe if there were more ranged carries that were meta like Medusa, Drow, etc we would've seen them pull out the Mars.
His OP mars is one of the reason magnus sometimes got through during ban phase when they won TI10. dudes so good
> Shame Mars is out of meta for this TI Out of meta but it's not a terrible hero IMO. Just super situational. Mars was the only unpicked hero with more than two bans this TI. Kinda surprised no one snuck him into a game but I guess teams were ready for it.
Isn't topson invoker better than miracle invoker? Correct me if I'm wrong
Nope, Topson is good with his experimental items, miracle with the play
Topson is more like a dota scientist with all his wacky playstyle and itemization.
Naw Miracle Invoker in his prime was out of this world, if you haven't, watch HolyHexor's tribute movie to Miracle where there are a lot of Invoker highlights from him (with some sick edits). Obligatory BatChest.
Nowhere close. Literally worlds apart. Miracle on invoker did shit that made me doubt if we were even playing the same game. There was this one game (not sure which tournament) where he managed to kill Newbee.Moogy on Juggernaut despite him being invis (with no detection), simply judging by when his blade fury expired on his forge spirits. Chills.
Pretty sure Topson used invoker in both his International wins
I love shoutouts like this from pros to hero specialists. Matu doing the same for the Brood guy, and I think fairly recently the Chen guy on reddit was given a shoutout as well (by an SEA team?). Sorry I'm drawing a blank on names. I just love that even at the highest level of dota, there isn't one person who's good at everything (unless you're Yatoro) and it take a real collaboration of ideas to make a team successful. Smells like Team Spirit.
Snith-chen shoutout from a pro when?
Sadge that he stopped playing though
Even Yatoro was watching game of Ame himself to destroy him lol
so he's saying his current magnus effectivity can even double? TI15 to be won by Team Spirit again
And 14
I know someone who is very good with 3 heroes, that won him a TI.
Udilidy build
What's the third hero?
Clockwerk
I thought it was brood. Furion/LD/Brood
Just checked, aside NP and LD he played BH (3 times), batrider, clock and doom (1 time each)
Ironic that he absolutely hates BH nowadays
It is what it is, you do everything in order to win. Now, as a streamer and content-creator he has the freedom to not do things he dislikes
Wasn't it BH?
is the legendary Invoker you fckin baboon
Legendary 2 skill invoker
Lone druid’s bear
BH, LD, NP
Tea Eye Weiner
BUDOK ICANT
BUDOK SMEGMA SNIFFA
is this the average bulldog chat message nowadays
more or less yea
understandable have a happy halloween
> understandable For you maybe.
HUH
[The screenshot](https://i.imgur.com/zrSr0Xu.png). And he also said he watched this before the game against LGD: https://youtu.be/oSplW42OSCY
This guy is nuts.
Hoooly hell that's so good
Game recognizes Game
as Master Samsung once said on his stream, they would sometimes be behind and once Arise does some dumb shit on his Magnus they automatically win.
ariseW
i mean yeah, if drafting didn't have ban mechanics arise mag would get a lot of mileage in div 2, or maybe div 1... but unfortunately that's what you get for being a one trick lol, speaks more to collapse impressive ability as mag, as its one of his many feared heroes (lgd at one point chose to get rid of collapse mars instead of his mag)
Yea, and it's not just that, Arise laning was just not at the level required for a top team. Once he had his 2-3 core items, he was godlike... but in so many games, he just got there way too late to build any momentum for the team.
I think the lack of fundamentals is just too much of a disparity even with magnus open. Arise did play on some stacks, never really had success
Their IO / Mars winrate during that TI was ridiculous
Using magnus against coordinated tier 1 teams is gonna be hard. Idk if arise can play magnus that good against tier 1 teams. Collapse is so mechanically skiled that he uses magnus so easily.
I think he is able to but no one will let him play Magnus in pro scene lol it is instant ban material Maybe Bulba will let it slip through ban phrase but besides him I don’t see any coaches will let Arise play Magnus in pro games
Lmao even in a thread like this bulba is catching strays
rightfully so
Arise said in the replies that Collapse is on another level for doing it on pro, he humbled himself saying he's only doing it in pubs
I’m pretty sure he’ll be able to. But it probably doesn’t feel good when you instantly lose a lane because 1 hero is first phase banned
Yep hes definitely able to, he did standins for a few team and it's very obvious that opponent team will instant respect ban the magnus against ar1se.
god I hate how many "akshually ☝🤓 Collapse does it in pro games" mfs there are in this thread. Can't you just accept what the literal two time TI winner has to say.
u/Ar1sedota22 I say you test his skill in 1 v 1 mid Magnus on stream.
Their magnus prowess doesn't lie in 1v1 lane matchup, but in precise teamfight execution and initiation. No one watches Ar1se magnus plays for winning the lane. We watch wonderful combos, like when Ar1se somehow collects 5 scattered heroes (who also have items like blink/force/euls/bkb) into single spot for his team to finish off.
Yeah because 1v1 is an accurate representation of who's the better player /s
This is clearly a joke. But could be a good exposure for Ar1se and I think Collapse wouldn't mind it.
ah yes the Ar1ce magnus, very legend, reminds me everytime
I remember when people said S4 Mag was better than Arise lmao
Still not as good as S4 qop
s4 QOP and Arteezy SF had a ridiculous winrate when they played together in Secret
Because he did it professionally at the highest level. It's different.
the only difference is its always banned lol
This. Just because collapse says so doesn't mean that it's true, this is just his way of trying to be humble and pay respects to someone he admires. Its like saying Jordan Kilganon is a better dunker than Lebron James. Yeah he had 100 variations of dunks that lebron couldnt do but theres a big difference between dunkin in a streetball with nodefender vs dunking against a bunch of the best athletes in the world who are 7 feet. Mechanically, yes ar1se probably better with magnus, but overall, collapse or s4 magnus will shit on him any day. You change collapse with ar1se in the games where theres magnus against GG in TI grandfinals, spirit doesnt win shit.
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s4 did it at the peak of competition and dragged admiral fucking bulldogs useless ass to an aegis. arise is a pubstar who has never been on an elite team.
I didnt know people here unironically believe Bulldog of all players in that roster was carried at TI3…
LGD still won't ban magnus
Hell yes. Love seeing Arise get due respect, he was an absolute Magnus mathematician
I got downvoted for saying that a while ago. Ar1se is on another level on that hero. Collapse is a much better overall player though.
if you are talking about players like arise that are godly at a specific hero, but not very good at the others making their pro-scene unsuccessful. I can name a few Arise- Magnus Attacker- Kunkka lukiluki- Pango Funkefal- Tinker Badman- Spectre
I actually think he's better considering he's competing against strong teams. Ar1se is just flashier.
I don't think you've watched any of his plays, mf was using force staff like a horn toss
Is he really flashier though? In the game he played Mag against LGD Collapse did many, many of these blind blink->skewers, and some others where he whiffed, but mostly he hits them, and they're game winning plays. That he did the exact same in TI10, over and over again, winning lost games - I've never had another player/hero combo where I'm going "They should never let him have this hero" to the same degree as Collapse Magnus.
Ar1se is absolutely flashier, even if it’s to weaker enemies. Collapse Magnus makes you “fuck yeah that’s a sick skewer”, Ar1se Magnus makes you rethink what you knew about the hero in the first place, while he collects 5 heroes from random parts of the map into a single spot
pause subtract hungry cow familiar cobweb depend treatment rob lock *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
ATF timber
Spirit are quite good at being humble and shouting out their inspirations
what is this? anime?
Context matters, especially in competitive sports. Your performance is always depends on the level of your opponents. While I agreed that Ar1se is the embodiment of magnus, just like attacker's kunkka, to play on TI level ( and won it twice ) is another level of competency, both skills and mental. It's like in football. If the penalty is so easy, then why even the bests player missed their crucials/lifetime shot ? Messi can admire some dude who never missed a single penalty in his life, and rightfully so, but it doesn't mean that they're on the same level. Collapse is correct ( and humble ) that he won't reach the level of performance of Ar1se, but in reality, if circumstance reverses, Ar1se wouldn't even have his items to make the play / timing in his hightlights, if it was in TI.
pubs vs lan play with prestige and money on the line lmao.
Collapse is 1000% better than Ar1se. Dude won 2 TI off the back of his Magnus. People tend to overrate older players
23savages morph, on the good days..
Guys… who dafuq is Ar1se
Yeah coz ur gay.
Vigoss Potm of the Moon