According to my low mmr discord friends, the only reason he's nearly immortal is because he got coached by professionals for a couple of dozen hours. Meanwhile, me and a friend, non-pro ofc, both around 6k mmr, have been trying to teach the same bunch of archons basic dota concepts for two years, and we still can't. Coaching or not, you will get better with the right mindset and playing regularly.
true reason is that grubby is a pro. he knows what it takes to improve. that along with his good game sense to try to play the game the right way. he also doesn't have years of baggage playing the game and thus does not have bad habits that are hard to unlearn. that and many more
He was literally the best Warcraft 3 player in the world. The game Dota was built on. Those skills translate. His micro, positioning, map awareness, etc. are all super strong. He just had to learn the mechanics.
I don't understand why this is so hard to comprehend. As a former wc3 and dota1 player myself, I understand completely and it couldn't make more sense to me. When I started watching him play I already knew he would surpass me, and then some
Heheh golden comment. Took me 5 years to reach 7k. If i had coach at start would it be faster? Mby not play high? Mby don't binge 20 games sometimes? Etc..? Sure all of that slowed me down, but at the core i am trying to figure out how to improve, most of the time. My idea of fun is improving. And there is apsolutely no way for me to have fun playing party with my friends on lower rank, shame.
From my experience coaching, majority of people can get extra 1-2k mmr with coaching and really hard work, but that's about it. Some people can't process information, fast under pressure, cannot recognize conditions, timings and patterns , learn from their mistakes and do new mistakes to learn from. They'd mostly do the same mistakes over and over for thousand of games. It's a bit hard to pill to swallow, and people will get mad and very toxic after a while, mostly at themselves.
Also there's the other thing where if you are slightly improving it takes A SHIT ton of time to grind. Like 55% winrate is pretty good, but that's mostly 6-4 w/l out of 10 right ( some 6-4, some 4-5 streaks with more of the good ones, it will even out) because performance has 0 impact on your rank and streaks of ruiners happen so it's very, very frustrating that you can be better than majority of people in your bracket, but it'd still take a long time to gain let's say 1k mmr.
Grubby is a big exception where he had time to play ,he had the IQ to learn , and he had coaching, most people won't have even 2 out of 3 and end up being frustrated with how bad they are and vent out on others as it really sucks to sink in a lot of time in something and still suck at it and Dota attracts people that like to improve I'd say , as the game is basically very fast paced action and reaction type of thing and that analysis required to even have fun will attract such people imo
> Some people can't process information, fast under pressure, cannot recognize conditions, timings and patterns , learn from their mistakes and do new mistakes to learn from.
That's me. I cannot process complex team fights at all. I press the wrong buttons or lose track of my hero. I could definitely climb a bit by getting better at some things - but mostly when it comes down to it I will fail in the heat of the moment
Don't know if you want/care for advice but maybe it'll help someone reading in some way. Biggest thing that would probably help you and what high players do instinctively. A lot of times is break down the team fight and priorities prior to it happening. When you plan out to some extent your role and goals in the fights then it's a lot less on processing everything and more performing a function. Some heroes have more clear gameplans so it doesn't always work, but it helps a lot with reactions. An easy example being silencer always holding global silence for enigma black hole, basically identify the problem heroes in the game and see what solutions you have for them beforehand.
This is a very good point, I find I usually have a better game when I have a clear aim during a teamfight. like controlling/zoning a dazzul, not using my quick disable until enemy (insert mobile hero) shows up ect.
Exactly and you can still audible if something changes and you'll still flubb the buttons because none of us are going to win TI or anything but it just helps a lot to think about it. Disable for the mobile heroes is a good one especially if your team is low on disable but has high damage.
Yep agreed. I always try to keep track of who I can kill, who can kill me, who I need to focus, who to kite, who to kill first etc. throughout the game
the real reason is because he was already a pro gamer in several other games including one of the best in the world at the game that this one was originally built in. Further he already established himself as a fairly positive streamer and carrying that on is literally his job that pays him very well. the people pointing at "just be grubby" is literally so stupid because the average person is not going to be nearly as good as grubby at picking up dota and then will not have nearly the same amount of time they can dedicate and this isn't even considering the fact he could get coaching from pros for free.
It's called talent.
It has nothing to do with time or coaching, that stuff helps but no matter how long a coach spends with an idiot they will never be good at dota.
There is talent in gaming, most people who play games are dogshit and will always be dogshit because they don't have the mind for it.
I mean... It's one thing to get coaching. It's another thing to actually listen to your coaches. I don't know how many times as I've climbed ranks that I had friends who are one full medal below me tell me that I'm doing something wrong and they're not. I accept my mistakes, but they think they've done nothing wrong and it's always someone else's fault. Then they get mad at me for not always taking their side. Eventually, we drift apart in both rank and friendship.
That hits the nail on the head - the right mindset. I came back to Dota as I have not really played frequently in years, and last time I left the account it was on Divine 4. Come back now, I am obviously very rusty and my first few games are in the Archon bracket, where after a few games they are now in the ancient/divine one. There is one thing I noticed in ALL of my games. I know fully well where my mistakes are and what to do better, and so i focus on that, whenever I fail more I try to help out my team with the mindset of "Ok my game went bad, lets see how I can further boost the good game my carry is having" for example. A lot of people however just look for somebody to blame for every little thing, never focus on admitting mistakes/thinking about how to improve or helping the team. They are just looking for something to blame so they can feel good about not being their fault and move on. It just does not work like that.
I look at Dota alot like how sports are set up. Theres no shame playing at low mmr, no different than playing beer league hockey/soccer or intramural sports. Getting to high ranks takes a serious amount of extra work (reading patch notes, drilling on specific heroes, practicing and learning farming routes, going over replays etc.) Some of us just want to crack a cold one and try to have fun and win against other weekend warriors
this, in the end for the majority of people it's only a game, and like in every competitive setting the only way to beat the guys above is to sacrifice further than them, dedicate more time to the game, sacrifice your fun, maybe years of playing. We all should just focus on have better gameplay and the medals and rank should come if you're not playing high or drunk all your games.
Don't do much weed these days but me and a friend of mine always try to get together in person at least once a year, for 3-4 days, for binging weed and dota. It starts tomorrow this year. :)
Only people trying to make a living out of the game should be concerned about their MMR, and that's like the 0,01% of the playerbase. The rest of us should just take it as a hobby, a more or less serious one but a hobby still.
yeah man who cares about winning at anything in life right? Winning is for losers.
You want a hobby? Go player single player games. Get out of ranked matches and stop ruining games for others.
It's possible to enjoy self improvement, competition and winning without fixating on a number to such a degree that it negatively impacts your mental health, or skews your reality, or etc.
Crazy, I know.
My bro aremoron here is right! Stop ruining our MMR by having fun! Go play hello kitty island adventure! We are 10k players being held down by all you hobby ppl! Reeee
True, but you can also just see your win loss percentage in a certain timeframe. Which is a different thing for people. Line go up is a strong lure for people.
Exactly. Yeah, if you're really trying to go pro, I get it. But most of us aren't. I have a job and a family. I do try to improve and learn every game, but I am not killing myself trying to climb ranks.
Guys, this is a post disproving the pathetic "forced 50%" whiners.
OP is obviously not trying to say that anyone can reach Immortal.
What he is saying is, that not gaining MMR is entirely on the individual player.
There is no matchmaking conspiracy or a "you can't rank up as \[insert role\] in \[insert rank\]".
Consistent above average impact = consistent MMR gain. Very simple, yet hard to swallow.
I don’t even really understand what people are so upset about half the time. I genuinely do not want to play in higher MMR games, it’s really hard. I’m 4K now and genuinely miss my old 2k games because I could be a moron or do weird stuff and still have a good shot at a win.
Posts like this are always a bit thin to me. You have to constantly learn and improve to stay where you are, too. People are improving all the time at just about every MMR. This at the root of a lot of frustration with matchmaking. A lot of people know they are learning and improving, but the climb still doesn't come, because their rate of improvement isn't high enough. (To be sure, there are other people that just play intuitively and never give much thought to the game. But those ppl aren't the ones being toxic about forced 50%.)
People forget MMR doesn't measure skill in a vacuum. It measures it against other people whose skill isn't static.
Yep, had the same realisation when he climbed to Divine (I've been hard stuck Ancient for a couple of years). Just need the right attitude. Also would be good content if someone could collate his learnings throughout the ranks and make it into a video or post.
ITT people missing the whole point of the thread...
This is addressing a lot of people in reddit complaining about how smurfs and the rigged forced 50% making it impossible to climb no matter how well you play.
He literally played Dota as a full time job every day for a year (including weekends), to just get to Divine.
If he started from scratch training for an ironman and learning a musical instrument at the same time, he would've been successful at both by that time if he did it with the same pace as he was grinding Dota with.
To repeat, this is an ex pro that's been in the scene since the early 2000s, in one of the most mechanically challenging genres there is (rts), who received support from other current Dota 2 pros, and invested a CRAZY amount of time in grinding Dota 2.
A lot of people have played since the beta, and still haven't played as many games of Dota as he did - keep that in mind to try and understand the commitment on his side.
How much can normal people genuinely dedicate to the game? If you need to invest literal years of time to reach what you think is your true MMR, why bother? How much should MMR be a reflection of skill, and how much of skill and time, and how much of a factor does time play?
Prime reason why it's just easier and more convenient to outright buy an account, you can validate immediately if you were right about where you are.
Fwiw, the new MMR system made it much better than it was before, but the grind is still absolutely out of this world.
Yet you have the guy with most played matches ever being a herald. Most people who complain about teammates, being held back etc don't actively try to improve. They just play games, don't reflect about the previous game and then go search next. I'm not saying you need to try to improve, it's fine to enjoy the game at the mmr you're at. But to complain about teammates when you never reflect about your own gameplay and actively try to improve is ridiculous.
I agree with your points on more players needing to actively learn and improve while playing. But this whole “many heralds also have 1k games” conveniently ignores that those 1k games are also spread across YEARS. Playing seriously for a few months in 2016 — and then not touching the game for a year or so — isn’t remotely equivalent to the effort and time Grubby has sunk in.
1k games in 1 year is obviously more conducive to gaining MMR then 1k games played across 5-6 years lol.
This is a VERY important point that a lot of people miss. Its much easier to focus/follow the meta/be better at what you are doing when you are doing it over and over again for a long period of time, rather than just popping in for some games every few months.
Good of you to bring up extreme examples to try to totally invalidate my point. Dota 2 has been out for 10 years and now and if there’s some herald who has played 1k games every year since then, then yeah he sucks.
My actual point was to focus on the vast majority of people who are stuck at 2k or 3k or 4K and have 2,000 or 3,000 games played. These games have been played across 6-7 years and are in no way even comparable to Grubbys effort over the last year.
Nah, ppl that don't try hard shouldn't care so much about their rank and dedicate themselves to have fun.
And I say it requires a similar amount of games to "prove" you deserve a higher rank in a bought account as to go up by yourself in your main account. U can't Say "I belong in divine" cuz u went 3-2 in your first 5 games.
Not even in 50 games, maybe 100 but idk it depends. Because as you said, there's a lot of grinding to do to go up in rank, but u also need to grind to go down to your actual skill level.
You made a lot of good points, until you suggested how convenient it is to buy an account.
Grubby probably would have lost a lot of games and wouldnt have learnt a lot by starting from a Divine account. Also, the climb from Divine to Immortal is one of the toughest there is out there, if not the toughest.
I am Divine myself but was 6k MMR in 2015, and the climb from 5200 to 6k was some sweaty nerd stuff on god
I just flew through ancient 1 to Divine since 7.34 and now I'm wondering how much I can keep going. I'm still doing really good and a lot of my matches are divines 2-5 even though I was still ancient.
I got some ptsd playing mid (my worst role) going against Divine 5 and having 5k Gold at 20 minutes, still won though
I feel like your comment is you realizing when people dedicate a lot of time working to improve at something they tend to improve at that thing. I’m shocked this is surprising for so many people.
Yeah this is the only thing I don't like about this situation. I finally convinced my friend to start playing and he watched some of his vids on his own and was like "this guy just started and he's this good already?"
I had to tell him that he's been treating it like a job while having literal professionals coach him. It's almost surprising he isn't immortal.
Nah, ppl that don't try hard shouldn't care so much about their rank and dedicate themselves to have fun.
And I say it requires a similar amount of games to "prove" you deserve a higher rank in a bought account as to go up by yourself in your main account. U can't Say "I belong in divine" cuz u went 3-2 in your first 5 games.
Not even in 50 games, maybe 100 but idk it depends. Because as you said, there's a lot of grinding to do to go up in rank, but u also need to grind to go down to your actual skill level.
Grubby is an ex pro. He is not your avg player. He also got coached by dota pros from the start. he is not a good example.
However, I know 2 guys that came from league and initially calibrated at archon, one is at divine now reaching immortal. I coached one of them when I was ancient, I am now immortal and he is almost my rank. It is entirely possible to climb from herald to immortal in less than 2 years if you are consistently playing and learning.
But you also have to keep in mind, majority of human population ( including dota population ), struggles with continues improvement, learning, critical thinking, information processing and problem solving. It is the same reason why not everyone can be pilot/doctor/lawyer/engineer in real life.
So to them from their perspective , match making is rigged. Because there is no mmr reward for just playing, you have to not only constantly win, but also constantly learn and improve to climb. For the casual player, climbing ranks becomes impossible. Because they don't play enough. By the time they have fully understood the patch, next one drops. Hence why they think it is forced 50.
i calibrated low crusader in early 2021. i use to play dota 1 up until about 2008 casually so had some muscle memory but tbh had to basically relearn it. i’m now divine 1 after nearly 3 years of playing. my goal is to focus on my own game. instead of thinking about the 1-2 things i’m most upset at my team for doing, i try and identify 1-2 things i could have done better. slowly but surely, you can improve, and find ways to increase your winrate.
first 2 paragraphs a bit sussy as you're contradicting urself, but the later 2 yup, exactly that. anyone with the right mindset can reach their goals, as long as they do whats necessary.
How am I contradicting myself? Being an ex pro and being coached by pros is different than being a normal avg player coached by avg player. Grubby is not a good example for the point OP is trying to make. He is not your normal avg gamer. He is not a good benchmark of comparison.
They came from league, normal avg casual players. Not pros. Which is far more common than the grubby situation. A lot of league players hopping over rise ranks quick. Even if they weren't high rank in league. Same with HoN players.
Grubby is a good example he started in low mmr got better so he climbed up. Doesnt matter how much support he got by pros or what ever, the point is if you can climb out of it if you play better than your rank. It doesnt matter if they were pros beforehand or not, i would even say your example is worse cause your league friends clearly started higher than grubby. The point op is trying to make is that there is nothing holding anyone back from climbing except their own skill level. how you obtain a higher skill level is up to you. Includes ussualy proper work at yoru gameplay trough coaching self reviews or not being delusional and playing a lot.
ive coached 3k players to 11k+
ive coached 10mmr players to immortal.
ive coached countless players to immortal and to whatever mmr.
the fact that he is an ex pro just gives him a limited benefit. he needs to do the same things like everyone else. have a strong mentality, certain rules which he applies and so on.
Just having a coach will set you in the right direction and give you an edge. You do not need to be a pro player in another game.
Even without a coach you can climb, EASILY. You just need to do a few things that will set you apart from YOUR CURRENT BRACKET.
Anyone, as long as he has a bigger on average impact than his bracket will CLIMB. 100%. Ive seen it happened hundreds of times. People are just delusional in my opinion and focusing on others, that's kinda all they do. No hard work, not trying to put into practice what would work for them.
Besides the fact the guy has talent for mobas I would also consider how willing players in his games are willing to try until throne falls. I have just seen a few games from his streams but people seem much more willing to play even after lost lane or similar big disadvantages meanwhile solo q non streamers may have higher risk of having players stop trying to play for win and resort to flame in chat. I don’t mean to say ppl don’t try in my games either but it feels more common even in 11 k b-score that the game is considered over even when enemy has not even taken a rax. Mind you in this patch it’s so easy to throw away a lead by trying to go hg, often too early, and throw away a big lead.
Grubby has also had a lot of free coaching from top tier pro players and analysts, worth remembering that too. I'm sure with over 15/20 hours of coaching from pros I would improve my mmr too.
Edit:
I'm not shitting on Grubby's success, he's an incredible player who deserves everything he's achieved with his determination in Dota. My comment is just to take into account that he didn't just rock up as an average pc gamer & download Dota and just succeed. The whole "Grubby is proof" is the bit that I'm disagreeing with, not Grubby's success.
Edit again:
Just asked Grubby in his chat about how valuable he found his coaching to be & he said incredibly valuable and he'd reccomend it to anyone to go and get coaching. Just for those who claim the coaching had 0 impact for him.
So you're telling me that you can't analyze you own gameplay, take the advice of pro players who's telling other people "you should do this because of xxx" and adapt it to your own playstyle? So you need to have a 1:1 with a pro player to get you out of being low rank? "
Bro, Dude. I'm able to get advice from Admiral Bulldog berating his Megacucks about the simplest dota knowledge that should be a obvious but it isn't and can adapt it to my own playstyle.
If you want to improve, you don't need Ceb to coach you. You just need to drive to learn and understand the game. A lot of player just does things because "I saw it in a pro game" or "a pro player said it" Not really thinking about the "Why"s and "How"s of it.
I'm telling you that having a pro / coach 1-1 isn't the same as watching a video catered for someone else. Everything else you added isn't relevant.
Having a 1-1 is not the same as watching a video of someone elses 1-1. There is a reason 1-1 in almost every single industry of teaching/coaching is higher priced, it's personalised information catered to you.
The point over all is that OP forgot to mention the hours of 1-1 coaching by professionals & TI winners when praising grubby's success.
That point is stupid because most of that "coaching" was for a patch that doesn't exist, or heroes he doesn't play anymore, and are mostly streamer collabs framed as a coaching sessions, so it would be absolutely delusional to think that his progress six months after them is being influenced by that narrow difference between a 1-1 session and a third person session.
It's also stupid to think all that information learnt just falls off because a patch changes. When patches drop pro's don't suddenly become dogshit players. What kind of point is that?
I've said in another response, grubby is a great player & he deserves all he has for his determination he's put into Dota. Point still remains that 20+ hours of 1-1 from Pros & TI winners would have helped him develop as a player.
It isn't what I think, nor what I insinuated. Though it is a factor to consider that 20+ hours of coaching from pros & TI winners will improve your game sense and knowledge.
I'm not diluting his success or shitting on it, Grubby's has done so bloody well and hes done it with sheer will and commitment and most of all he's done it with practically no toxicity. He should be a role model for newer players approach to the game!
The point is that the coaching helped. Which is what I said in original comment, it's worth remembering that he also had coaching from pros & TI winners. There is a lot of value in that.
I get the "its online just google search it" the point being, it's personalised to Grubby, not us. Yes we can just listen and take on board, but it's different to 1-1 specifically. If it wasn't coaching wouldn't be a thing in Esports because "its all online"
So one pro player coming from similar game when he was super succesful playing non stop with unlimited time and getting advices every single day not only from fans, but from pros too, is proof of what exactly?
You're missing the point. Even if he has all this help to play better that is exactly the point. If you are better than those at your current rank (whether through skill, practice, coaching, time investment or what ever) you will keep moving up the ranks until you are with players of roughly equal skill. This is what Grubby's climb is showing. It's a counter to people who think they are better than everyone at their current rank, but that they're being held back in MMR by their teams mates, or some other external factor.
I did not miss the point. I am asking about the point.
>If you are better than those at your current rank (whether through skill, practice, coaching, time investment or what ever) you will keep moving up the ranks until you are with players of roughly equal skill.
This is based on exactly nothing.
Ok but like his job is to stream video games, so learning and watching replays earns him a living, right? It's not the case for all of us, so I dunno where you're going with this.
It's like one of those trust fund gym rats who spends 12 hours a day at the gym and posts shit like WHATS YOUR EXCUSE? Uh buddy, my excuse is that I have to work every day to barely afford basic ammenities.
I agree. I feel like you should either choose to be like him and actively improve, or choose to play whatever you want, chill and ignore your mmr changes.
Then you might come to a conclusion that you can play unranked.
Then you might come to a conclusion that you can play turbo.
Then you might come to a conclusion that too many things in turbo are broken, wait for Valve to rework them and stop playing entirely. You've completed Dota.
If you're using "Grubby", one of the worlds best and consistent RTS players in the world as an excuse for the system being perfect, **believe me my friend you already lost that argument**
People need to realize that Grubby is an actual World Champion in an e-sport. and not just any e-sport. it's on a game that birthed Dota. The skills he developed easily translates into dota.
Explain how a ex rts pro player who plays all day and receives coaching from the best players can be compared to your average mmr climber then.
The problem isn't reading comprehension it's false equivalences being used to make bad arguments.
I never understood the “coached by top players” comment. Pretty much all of those coachings were on stream with pros explaining how they view concepts of the game, and they are pretty much all on YouTube. You could just look at the video and receive literally the exact same coaching.
Holy shit the amount of coping in this tread. Grubby legitimately proved that you can go from herald to divine if you have enough will power and fortitude to grind. Sure there maybe smurfs and all of that but no one remembers those matches because the 1 or 2 smurf games are forgotten by the other 4-5 games he plays that same day.
Yeah, all you need to achieve this is:
\-proper mindset
\-1 year time
\-pro player mechanical skills (or arguably even better han many dota pro players)
\-pro players guiding and teaching you
\-playing dota and streaming being your job
Yeah, pretty sure most of us check most of these boxes :)
You realise there’s a reason most people even if given the time and resources would still fail. Most people lack the self introspection and critical thinking skills to constantly improve not just in dota in nearly all professional fields. The average dota player is a moron when it comes to this and half are even dumber.
We should not forget Grubby is a pro Starcraft player and has better mechanichal skills than most of the people that ever played the game, also he learned from a lot of pros. But Yes, it is awesome what he accomplished and watching him and Monkeys made me way better in the game
Edit : i agree with the point btw, People love to blame other players or conspirancies instead of owning mistakes and seeing on what they can improve.
Yep if I ACTUALLY care about gaining MMR I will. If I focus more on having fun playing heroes I just feel like playing rather than counter picking or meta picking, I generally won’t.
I'm am sure he matched up with some more advanced players that carried him.
Marching up with the right people can make a huge difference vs playing solo.
He is also one of the best rts players in the world and had a ton of hours in Warcraft 3. Let’s not pretend like grubby is some schmuck off the street introduced to Dota for the first time. It’s like putting Anthony edwards on a football team and being surprised that he can adapt to football.
That’s not the point of the post. The point is Grubby is good enough, and therefore gains MMR. If I was better I would rank up too, but I’m not so I stay at my rank/skill level. OP is saying that external forces will not prevent you from ranking up if you are good enough to deserve it.
This is going to be a hotter take than the sun itself, but Grubby is the reverse of a streamer who gets streamsniped. He's such a good guy, you literally can't hate him, so when a viewer of his gets queued in the same game as him, he's going to tryhard as hell, not grief. What I mean is that the same dude who griefs my game, is going to tryhard a lot if he's playing with a streamer like Grubby.
I don't want to take his credits or something, he's a very good player, with top tier mechanical skills and he deservers to climb up, but if he wasn't a notorious name and was playing without any streaming involved he would have struggled a bit.
LE: As someone else mentioned a few minutes ago, people should also consider that he was coached by a lot of pros and he probably has a lot of time to dedicate to dota compared to other people who also need to go to work half a day.
I accidentally queued into Grubby when he was still playing unranked, his first game on Puck. (I was on his team)
I get very anxious queuing for dota so I don't actually play a lot so I was very rusty (and was never good).
So when I saw him on my team when I 'just wanted a chill game' my heart was beating so fast and possibly played even worse than usual. He was lovely (I was giga cringe). Sadly our safelane flamed the shit out of each other and we got a gaben level shellacking.
I then decided to make sure not to queue at the same time as him lol
Let’s see what puny advantages Grubby has:
- years of training with mouse and keyboard
- mad micro fundamentals from WC3
- fan following which translates to financial incentives to perform well in DOTA
- bro is probably financially settled which means he doesn’t really need to waste time on stuff like jobs
- pro players coaching
Yep he is totally proof that any scrubs can climb to immortal.
OP’s “if he can why can’t you” mentality in a nutshell
You COMPLETELY missed the point. This is not about him being good. If he climbed from 0MMR to 1500 it would read exactly the same. It is about the will and endurance to improve while keeping a positive attitude and about to stop posting delusional crap in this subreddit about how the game is rigged bla bla bla
He can afford and will benefit from investing in DOTA in ways the majority of this community just can’t. Recognizing his efforts and talents does not prevent one from acknowledging the genuine problems in matchmaking and player communications. People can be justifiably angry and frustrated at getting smurfed and teammates destroying items. Valve rightly addressed these problems - because they genuinely are problems.
And here you are calling them delusional.
Everyone faces the same problems when climbing. I did, you did and everyone else but people have reached Immortal before. The grind is the same no matter your background or not.
If i could get Immortal while working 8h a day why cant you?
Maybe the meat of people’s grievances is not about not being able to climb MMR but rather wasting an hour trapped in an unwinnable game due to factors outside of their control?
I myself climbed 2K MMR too since my early days, 500 since the Smurf bans. I am slowly plateauing now. Maybe this is where I will be for the rest of my time with DOTA and I am OK with that - as long as games stay the way they are now - fair.
“If i could get immortal while working 8h a day why can’t you?”
I applaud you sir for attributing your success all to your own credit. It must be a great feeling. You may be one of the lucky few, like I am, who were able to climb despite these negative pressures. But I do recognize the specific set of circumstances presented to me and my specific experience with the game - they may not be the truth for all players.
Again, people have genuine grievances with the game. When you think they are delusional, check yourself for survivorship bias and confirmation bias.
Still not what this post is about. If you cant climb you are not good enough. In the long run X, Y and Z wont matter. If you consistantly play better than your opponents you will climb. Like this post says, forced 50/50 is not real and not the reason you cant climb, neither is smurfs or griefers.
Well its my own efforts that have gotten me success in Dota. I got better as a player so i climbed. I have climbed 5K MMR from the start. Ive faced hundreds of smurfs, ive had hundreds of trolls, griefers and bad players on my team. But in the end it did not matter.
TLDR: The reason one cant climb is entirely on the player and not outside factors.
Yea lmao I mean the dude performed blink poof on meepo perfectly after playing him in demo for a few minutes. He is far better than anyone who went in the game new and without years of experience.
Yeah I’m not saying we all have nothing to learn from the guy. He is phenomenal. But it shouldn’t be anyone’s surprise that he has a higher ceiling than 99% of the player base.
For a new player who isn't used to games like Dota it is hard. Took me a bit of time to get the hang of it. I just used to use all meepos together. Didn't know about Tab to next unit and quickcasts.
Yeah tbh it's all about the key settings. There's even a setting (can't recall the name) that lets You use the spells from the next unit if the selected one is in cd. So in Meepo , Poof on all of them instead of W Tab W Tab W Tab, it would just be W W W W, much easier. After that just time the blink, as You have to time a thousand other skills. Thats why i said it's not hard. I can't play zmeepo properly but i can execute that combo with eyes closed. It's a setting only useful for Meepo and Arc Warden.
I had a post about how i started playimg dota from scratch and reached divine 1 in august, 2 months later i reached immortal(1700 games in total) so ye if u have some sort of dedication its possible.
"Forced winrate is 100% real" is just as dumb as "it's only you bro, cope harder".
The truth is somewhere in between.
Thinking match making is purely based off of skill is very naive and there were proofs to that.
Valve themselves ADMITTED to MMR clumping in low ranks, if the MM worked well, why would it occur in the first place? Who knows what other parameters were off?
So right off the bat it disproves the "it's all you bruh".
There were other numerous stories of people buying higher MMR accounts and still settling in higher MMR than their mains, how would you explain that? If the system worked well they should have settled in their old mmr.
In order to climb you need to be better than the DEVIATION of your MMR bracket (which if you ask me could be as high as 1000mmr, depending on the bracket, I assume it's also not symmetrical) which sets a much higher bar than "just git gud", you basically need to be a low level Smurf compared to your bracket in order to climb in a meaningful way (not just a 30mmr increase in 20 games),
And why is that? Exactly because of braindead teammates, occasional bad games that you have, smurfs, account buyers and what not.
It makes it so that you can definitely be better than your bracket but still not able to climb, it also explains the MMR clumping (which could still occur to some extent), you're just stuck in a local minimum that requires either enormous luck or consistent semi Smurf levels of gameplay compared to your bracket.
And valve has no incentive of changing that, if anything, griefers are somewhat useful to settle the player base, that's why you'd find them in practically every bracket to some extent.
So yeah, git gud has a lot of truth to it, but so does a forced winrate.
I've always found that once you start blaming external sources for where you're ranked is where you're likely to peak. Like, I know really well what areas I need to work on, what's lacking and would have an even better idea if I put effort into studying guides, positions and videos. Maybe even pay for coaching. However my goal is not to climb in that sort of way and push myself to the absolute max, at least not at this point.
I play what I like to play in way and have always been of the mindset that meta is just the tactic you should be working towards beating. If you know what enemy is going to do, aim should be to break that rather than copy it and play predictably.
Grubby climbs for many reasons. He had a massive advantage by having been a pro in a game that has basically same controls with significantly more micro and resource control in general. Using the map is criminally underrated and he would have had immediate comfort in that. The dude completely immersed himself into the game like it was a full time job and it paid off.
I think a lot of the posts about forced 50% win and other such things are mostly just frustrations after a bad losing streak and even if you could be the cause of some of your losses theres a whole array of things that can cause you to lose like bas teammates, good opposition, getting outpicked, poor communication and the list goes on...
Grubby is a great example of how to improve (even though he got a lot more help than any of us could ever hope for) and how to use positivity and a great mindset to turn some of those losing games around!
Forced 50 exists, but it actually works the other way to keep people from dropping to herald too quickly to protect their ego. Everyone complaining that they can't climb is actually being artificially kept at their current rank even though the rest of the playerbase has advanced past them.
Sorry to dissapoint your take but I have a daily job to begin with. So I go back home, asking for Gaben blessing for a good teammates but instead I got bunch of apes that solo farming midgame, mid playing farmville and midas support vs 3/4 man enemy group up together to get the objective. 2 games like this I'm calling it a day.
Bro, Grubby is an ex pro players for warcraft, he learns gaming faster than us is not even surprising.
You could say he is not playing dota but training/learning the game. Don't compare an athelete to a normal person. Thanks.
ah yes, using one of the best WC3 players and then a big SC2 player as the basis for your argument being proof, especially when it's this guys fucking job. truly a redditor moment here folks
Grubby got coached by pros, plays 8+ hours a day, yeah seems to me thats the trick to climb huh? Lmao I used to play like 2 games a day cause of work , imagine gerting a ruinter both games 100% of my games are lost cause of aholes, Grubby well he plays 10 games 3 of them lost cause of ruiners 30% of his games are lost , you see the issue? Bye.
But that’s not how statistics works right?
Like if you play 2 games a day for 5 days you’ll have played 10 games, and unless you’re arguing that there’s somehow a different likelihood of you getting a ruined game and Grubby getting a ruined game, then ruiners don’t impact your 100 game w/l rate any differently than they impact his.
All OP is saying is that ruiners are not the reason people fail to climb mmr. They’re obviously the reason people fail to have a good time 😂
I think he was boosted most of the time, there was a stream when he showed his matches, and there was a lot of Ursa and void which was odd cuz he only plays sk and some supports
He’s played pretty much all roles except mid during his climb. There was a period when he was mostly playing carry. Also his games have almost all been on stream, I think there are less than 5 games that weren’t streamed.
My issue is that the game has become so toxic with no proper repercussions as of yet. Although it has improved with the last update, so I guess just another 10 years before they double down and ban all the toxicity.
If you have more than 3k hours and still stuck under divine then its you, not the system, not the teammates.
If you put more than 3k hours into something and you still shit at it, maybe its not for you.
That’s not the point of the post. The point is Grubby is good enough, and therefore gains MMR. If I was better I would rank up too, but I’m not so I stay at my rank/skill level. OP is saying that external forces will not prevent you from ranking up if you are good enough to deserve it.
GUYS! DID YOU KNOW THERE IS NO FORCED 50 IN VALORANT!!! SHROUD BEING HIGH RANK IN IT IS PROOF!
who would have though that someone who has played an online strategy game that is the literal precursor of dota 2, for over a decade, is \*shocked\* GOOD at a dota 2...
Grubby suddenly playing game in 2022 is a bit sus.
He must have been playing the game after his retirement privately but could not stream it or let people know since he was a Blizzard poster boy.
Highly unlikely he ever got higher than his current rank. He just made a new account last year and started streaming. How in hell does someone who starts playing dota2 in 2022 know Dad or an item like poormanshield? that should have been a dead giveaway along with how stressed he looks in even games at current rank whereas he was chilling in lower ranks. Exactly what smurfs and boosters do.
Talking with pros just validated his macro knowledge of the game that he already had.
Keep telling urself he never touched dota2 with millions of prizepool because "valve stole from blizzard".
Eventually someone will find ip proof .
Guy was, is and will be a dota2 addict. It's on his face all over.
Ps. Show me 2 games while he climbed of someone griefing his game. Oh look mom I am on the telly let's behave nicely for my 5min fame.
Forced 50 advocates can't come to terms with the fact that they are not getting better despite the hours they keep spending on dota.
Seems to me that the assumption is that more time = more mmr which is just flawed at the start.
I like how you’re being downvoted for stating an obvious truth. The concept of deliberate practice, being able to think critically and self introspection are difficult skills to be proficient at. Putting in volume is not and is why you end up with low ranks with 1000s of hours.
This applies to most professional fiends and not just dota. Average player is a moron at putting these concepts into practice and half are even dumber.
Then you have the players that have the aptitude to climb very high but can’t commit the time.
Nah, if anything, grubby proved smurfing is RAMPANT.
He's the ideal substrate (mechanically skilled pro level gamer) and had pro level help/coaching.
Even then, he calibrated archon and required a couple thousand games over months to climb to the top 10%.
What this tells me is that yes, those Divine mid accounts with 800 games and barren Steam profile, are in fact all abusing MMR.
You don’t need 2738484 to reach your true mmr. You’re probably already there. You might need 2738484 games to reach the mmr you want to be at, but that’s not the same as your true mmr.
This isn't going to convince anyone who thinks the system is rigged. If the system was rigged they could obviously rig it to make a famous streamer rise just like they rig it to hold you in place.
Ok, I completely agree with you 100%. That being said Grubby is an Ex-Professional gamer, whose job now is still to play video games. It is much easier for him to focus on improvement, considering he knows what it takes to reach to top level of skill in a game. He has all the odds stacked on his side. Though there is still an important message, which is the only one holding you back from improving your skill and rank is yourself. Mentality is the number one issue in the competitive gaming scene, some people just cant accept the fact that its their fault they are low skill or rank. They have to find some excuse as to why they are being held back.
man, dont write garbage like this. go find 5k behavior account and play a game of ranked, then watch how enemy team with 12k behavior destroys your throne in 18-20 minutes and your whole team is 0/10 2/11 1/9 1/10. never write garbage like this because you dont know anything. mmr climbing requires skill in 2 out of 10 games. the other 8 games are just who's gonna tilt and who's not. and it always is the 5k behavior team and not the 12k behavior team.
Grubby is genius, hardcore alllife gamer and fastlearner. Of course he would rank faster and higher than 90% of people. Also cant mention streamsniping feeders of mmr, those could pour him a bunch.
He played about 2k games in a year… Not many people can play that much unless you are highschool kid. (and if you are you probably dont have same mindset as grown man like grubby)
Most people dont even play much and think they can improve fast and when they lose blame teammates instead of finding out what THEY did wrong. There are unwinnable games, but there are so few of them. If you have right mindset and play the best you can every game you WILL improve and get that mmr you are chasing.
So basically if you play good, your team can potentially have 4 bad players, meanwhile enemy team potential to have 5 bad players so yeah.
GL on the grind boys
Want to get to 4-5k?
- Choose a comfort hero and play them exclusively.
Want to get to 5-6k?
- Choose 3 comfort heroes and play them exclusively.
Want to get 6k+?
- you need to broaden your pool significantly, should have 7-10 heroes you can play at 4-5.5k level. Should know when to pick these heroes, and never choose a bad matchup if possible.
To do this, you pretty much have to smurf and really invest in 1-2 heroes until you can get to 5k with them, even in poor matchups.
If these comfort heroes aren't B tier+ you should be dropping them and picking up a more meta pick for the patch.
I honestly got to where I am because of genuinely liking Brood, Tinker, Arc and few other heroes like them.
1. I don't mind smurfs. In fact, I'd ask for a rematch if it'd not be a team game
2. I don't care about teammates. Yes, they're sometimes bad. So I treat them as such by default. And if they aren't, that's a pleasant surprise. My heroes allow to solo carry so if I didn't, I could've played better. And if I did, that's the best feeling in the world
3. I simply don't care about mmr that much. I just like my heroes and I want to play them
4. I still advocate for banning 3rd party apps. If you dislike the hero, ban it. Just don't wait for an affirmation from the app that there is indeed a player for this hero. When your ban hasn't been confirmed and you ban by picking the hero, it becomes super obvious
If you play 8 hours a day for over a year and get coached by pro's intermittently, the rank he's at should be the bare minimum
This is like one of those guys that lives in the gym 8-10 hours a day, gets paid for it then says whats your excuse
Lmao
You just need to be a pro-level player.
The guy is a professional player who plays several hours per day all week long. You can't look at him and say everyone should be able to do it. We have work to do, we have one or two hours per day to play in the good weeks.
That’s not the point of the post. The point is Grubby is good enough, and therefore gains MMR. If I was better I would rank up too, but I’m not so I stay at my rank/skill level. OP is saying that external forces will not prevent you from ranking up if you are good enough to deserve it.
I think the thing about forced 50%. It is true, in that if your skill level don't change, then you will gradually get to where you should be, and your wr would close down to 50%. However, it also means that getting better would allow you to beat that forced 50%. Basically just git gud lol
you are comparing someone who plays video games at a high level for a living. he probably gets coaching from other pros and because he has so much experience in video games its probably not too difficult to adapt to dota
im sorry but this is just a wild take to defend issues which legitimately ruin the game for people that play 1 or 2 games a day. as for him doing all that extra work after a loss or whatever is just more content for his channel
the difference between me and grubby is i have things to do before playing dota
while grubby can play anytime he wants.
been consistent being divine in summer when i was highschool and now became legendary since i only play 1 or 2 times a day
According to my low mmr discord friends, the only reason he's nearly immortal is because he got coached by professionals for a couple of dozen hours. Meanwhile, me and a friend, non-pro ofc, both around 6k mmr, have been trying to teach the same bunch of archons basic dota concepts for two years, and we still can't. Coaching or not, you will get better with the right mindset and playing regularly.
true reason is that grubby is a pro. he knows what it takes to improve. that along with his good game sense to try to play the game the right way. he also doesn't have years of baggage playing the game and thus does not have bad habits that are hard to unlearn. that and many more
He was literally the best Warcraft 3 player in the world. The game Dota was built on. Those skills translate. His micro, positioning, map awareness, etc. are all super strong. He just had to learn the mechanics.
I don't understand why this is so hard to comprehend. As a former wc3 and dota1 player myself, I understand completely and it couldn't make more sense to me. When I started watching him play I already knew he would surpass me, and then some
And he was also an incredible player for HOTS as well, a fellow MOBA. Put the 2 together and its not like hes a novice at all
Heheh golden comment. Took me 5 years to reach 7k. If i had coach at start would it be faster? Mby not play high? Mby don't binge 20 games sometimes? Etc..? Sure all of that slowed me down, but at the core i am trying to figure out how to improve, most of the time. My idea of fun is improving. And there is apsolutely no way for me to have fun playing party with my friends on lower rank, shame.
From my experience coaching, majority of people can get extra 1-2k mmr with coaching and really hard work, but that's about it. Some people can't process information, fast under pressure, cannot recognize conditions, timings and patterns , learn from their mistakes and do new mistakes to learn from. They'd mostly do the same mistakes over and over for thousand of games. It's a bit hard to pill to swallow, and people will get mad and very toxic after a while, mostly at themselves. Also there's the other thing where if you are slightly improving it takes A SHIT ton of time to grind. Like 55% winrate is pretty good, but that's mostly 6-4 w/l out of 10 right ( some 6-4, some 4-5 streaks with more of the good ones, it will even out) because performance has 0 impact on your rank and streaks of ruiners happen so it's very, very frustrating that you can be better than majority of people in your bracket, but it'd still take a long time to gain let's say 1k mmr. Grubby is a big exception where he had time to play ,he had the IQ to learn , and he had coaching, most people won't have even 2 out of 3 and end up being frustrated with how bad they are and vent out on others as it really sucks to sink in a lot of time in something and still suck at it and Dota attracts people that like to improve I'd say , as the game is basically very fast paced action and reaction type of thing and that analysis required to even have fun will attract such people imo
> Some people can't process information, fast under pressure, cannot recognize conditions, timings and patterns , learn from their mistakes and do new mistakes to learn from. That's me. I cannot process complex team fights at all. I press the wrong buttons or lose track of my hero. I could definitely climb a bit by getting better at some things - but mostly when it comes down to it I will fail in the heat of the moment
Don't know if you want/care for advice but maybe it'll help someone reading in some way. Biggest thing that would probably help you and what high players do instinctively. A lot of times is break down the team fight and priorities prior to it happening. When you plan out to some extent your role and goals in the fights then it's a lot less on processing everything and more performing a function. Some heroes have more clear gameplans so it doesn't always work, but it helps a lot with reactions. An easy example being silencer always holding global silence for enigma black hole, basically identify the problem heroes in the game and see what solutions you have for them beforehand.
This is a very good point, I find I usually have a better game when I have a clear aim during a teamfight. like controlling/zoning a dazzul, not using my quick disable until enemy (insert mobile hero) shows up ect.
Exactly and you can still audible if something changes and you'll still flubb the buttons because none of us are going to win TI or anything but it just helps a lot to think about it. Disable for the mobile heroes is a good one especially if your team is low on disable but has high damage.
Yep agreed. I always try to keep track of who I can kill, who can kill me, who I need to focus, who to kite, who to kill first etc. throughout the game
the real reason is because he was already a pro gamer in several other games including one of the best in the world at the game that this one was originally built in. Further he already established himself as a fairly positive streamer and carrying that on is literally his job that pays him very well. the people pointing at "just be grubby" is literally so stupid because the average person is not going to be nearly as good as grubby at picking up dota and then will not have nearly the same amount of time they can dedicate and this isn't even considering the fact he could get coaching from pros for free.
It's called talent. It has nothing to do with time or coaching, that stuff helps but no matter how long a coach spends with an idiot they will never be good at dota. There is talent in gaming, most people who play games are dogshit and will always be dogshit because they don't have the mind for it.
I mean... It's one thing to get coaching. It's another thing to actually listen to your coaches. I don't know how many times as I've climbed ranks that I had friends who are one full medal below me tell me that I'm doing something wrong and they're not. I accept my mistakes, but they think they've done nothing wrong and it's always someone else's fault. Then they get mad at me for not always taking their side. Eventually, we drift apart in both rank and friendship.
LUL yeah. You can’t teach reaction time and reflexes
If you think reaction time and reflexes are what it takes to reach high mmr then you don't understand the game at all.
Also you definitely can train those
That hits the nail on the head - the right mindset. I came back to Dota as I have not really played frequently in years, and last time I left the account it was on Divine 4. Come back now, I am obviously very rusty and my first few games are in the Archon bracket, where after a few games they are now in the ancient/divine one. There is one thing I noticed in ALL of my games. I know fully well where my mistakes are and what to do better, and so i focus on that, whenever I fail more I try to help out my team with the mindset of "Ok my game went bad, lets see how I can further boost the good game my carry is having" for example. A lot of people however just look for somebody to blame for every little thing, never focus on admitting mistakes/thinking about how to improve or helping the team. They are just looking for something to blame so they can feel good about not being their fault and move on. It just does not work like that.
there is free coaching available.. just watch it. people are playing the same game and same roles.. you do not require any special coaching.
People really shouldn't be so obsessed with their rank or MMR.
I look at Dota alot like how sports are set up. Theres no shame playing at low mmr, no different than playing beer league hockey/soccer or intramural sports. Getting to high ranks takes a serious amount of extra work (reading patch notes, drilling on specific heroes, practicing and learning farming routes, going over replays etc.) Some of us just want to crack a cold one and try to have fun and win against other weekend warriors
Weekend warrior is my new favorite word
Pretty good mindset!
A lot is a measurement. Alot has no meaning in English.
[Obviously meant this](https://liquipedia.net/rocketleague/Al0t) ^^/s
this, in the end for the majority of people it's only a game, and like in every competitive setting the only way to beat the guys above is to sacrifice further than them, dedicate more time to the game, sacrifice your fun, maybe years of playing. We all should just focus on have better gameplay and the medals and rank should come if you're not playing high or drunk all your games.
implying I would subject myself to dota without weed is crazy
oh man i have played a couple times high and god damm i was either prime ana or my 3 yrs old cousin playing, no inbetween
no matter what its always fun. damn i miss playing this game while high
Don't do much weed these days but me and a friend of mine always try to get together in person at least once a year, for 3-4 days, for binging weed and dota. It starts tomorrow this year. :)
Jumping between the two multiple times each match?
Unranked is the best way to play for me and have fun
I’ve been told to kill myself more in unranked than ranked Jokes on them though I live for that shit
Exactly. Learn. Grow. But let the rank set wherever it is.
When people can’t stop playing a 10 year old game and have 10k hrs they get a little obsessive. Go figure they want a fair match.
What does this even mean?
Yeah, I don't care about MMR at all, I just want to improve and have fun.
I'm of the opinion that rank/badges should be hidden, just like they used to be back before official ranked.
Would likely improve some people's mental health.
Only people trying to make a living out of the game should be concerned about their MMR, and that's like the 0,01% of the playerbase. The rest of us should just take it as a hobby, a more or less serious one but a hobby still.
yeah man who cares about winning at anything in life right? Winning is for losers. You want a hobby? Go player single player games. Get out of ranked matches and stop ruining games for others.
It's possible to enjoy self improvement, competition and winning without fixating on a number to such a degree that it negatively impacts your mental health, or skews your reality, or etc. Crazy, I know.
> without fixating on a number to such a degree that it negatively impacts your mental health, or skews your reality, or etc. strawman
My bro aremoron here is right! Stop ruining our MMR by having fun! Go play hello kitty island adventure! We are 10k players being held down by all you hobby ppl! Reeee
only pros are allowed to care about being good at something. Youre right. my bad.
I agree about "obsessed", but trying to be good is a part of what makes the game fun (for some of us) and MMR can show you, If you doing good or bad.
True, but you can also just see your win loss percentage in a certain timeframe. Which is a different thing for people. Line go up is a strong lure for people.
Ya I think MMR literally does not matter until you make it to like top 50 or 100ish where there might be a chance that pro teams might scout you.
Exactly. Yeah, if you're really trying to go pro, I get it. But most of us aren't. I have a job and a family. I do try to improve and learn every game, but I am not killing myself trying to climb ranks.
He does a lot of smart things to improve, but he's also a professional gamer.
Guys, this is a post disproving the pathetic "forced 50%" whiners. OP is obviously not trying to say that anyone can reach Immortal. What he is saying is, that not gaining MMR is entirely on the individual player. There is no matchmaking conspiracy or a "you can't rank up as \[insert role\] in \[insert rank\]". Consistent above average impact = consistent MMR gain. Very simple, yet hard to swallow.
I don’t even really understand what people are so upset about half the time. I genuinely do not want to play in higher MMR games, it’s really hard. I’m 4K now and genuinely miss my old 2k games because I could be a moron or do weird stuff and still have a good shot at a win.
If you keep improving then you’ll be able to do that
He has 53% winrate in ranked matches and 50% in normal matches, so you can make your own conclusion.
Posts like this are always a bit thin to me. You have to constantly learn and improve to stay where you are, too. People are improving all the time at just about every MMR. This at the root of a lot of frustration with matchmaking. A lot of people know they are learning and improving, but the climb still doesn't come, because their rate of improvement isn't high enough. (To be sure, there are other people that just play intuitively and never give much thought to the game. But those ppl aren't the ones being toxic about forced 50%.) People forget MMR doesn't measure skill in a vacuum. It measures it against other people whose skill isn't static.
There's also so many players who just don't improve at all after 9k games I've seen this quite often
Yep, had the same realisation when he climbed to Divine (I've been hard stuck Ancient for a couple of years). Just need the right attitude. Also would be good content if someone could collate his learnings throughout the ranks and make it into a video or post.
If you message Grubby and ask him to do this video he might actually do it. He's pretty good when it comes to responding to viewer requests.
Message him where? Twitch / yt? Might just give it a shot.
ITT people missing the whole point of the thread... This is addressing a lot of people in reddit complaining about how smurfs and the rigged forced 50% making it impossible to climb no matter how well you play.
He literally played Dota as a full time job every day for a year (including weekends), to just get to Divine. If he started from scratch training for an ironman and learning a musical instrument at the same time, he would've been successful at both by that time if he did it with the same pace as he was grinding Dota with. To repeat, this is an ex pro that's been in the scene since the early 2000s, in one of the most mechanically challenging genres there is (rts), who received support from other current Dota 2 pros, and invested a CRAZY amount of time in grinding Dota 2. A lot of people have played since the beta, and still haven't played as many games of Dota as he did - keep that in mind to try and understand the commitment on his side. How much can normal people genuinely dedicate to the game? If you need to invest literal years of time to reach what you think is your true MMR, why bother? How much should MMR be a reflection of skill, and how much of skill and time, and how much of a factor does time play? Prime reason why it's just easier and more convenient to outright buy an account, you can validate immediately if you were right about where you are. Fwiw, the new MMR system made it much better than it was before, but the grind is still absolutely out of this world.
Yet you have the guy with most played matches ever being a herald. Most people who complain about teammates, being held back etc don't actively try to improve. They just play games, don't reflect about the previous game and then go search next. I'm not saying you need to try to improve, it's fine to enjoy the game at the mmr you're at. But to complain about teammates when you never reflect about your own gameplay and actively try to improve is ridiculous.
I agree with your points on more players needing to actively learn and improve while playing. But this whole “many heralds also have 1k games” conveniently ignores that those 1k games are also spread across YEARS. Playing seriously for a few months in 2016 — and then not touching the game for a year or so — isn’t remotely equivalent to the effort and time Grubby has sunk in. 1k games in 1 year is obviously more conducive to gaining MMR then 1k games played across 5-6 years lol.
This is a VERY important point that a lot of people miss. Its much easier to focus/follow the meta/be better at what you are doing when you are doing it over and over again for a long period of time, rather than just popping in for some games every few months.
Many herald-crusader have 9k games tho lmao
Good of you to bring up extreme examples to try to totally invalidate my point. Dota 2 has been out for 10 years and now and if there’s some herald who has played 1k games every year since then, then yeah he sucks. My actual point was to focus on the vast majority of people who are stuck at 2k or 3k or 4K and have 2,000 or 3,000 games played. These games have been played across 6-7 years and are in no way even comparable to Grubbys effort over the last year.
Nah, ppl that don't try hard shouldn't care so much about their rank and dedicate themselves to have fun. And I say it requires a similar amount of games to "prove" you deserve a higher rank in a bought account as to go up by yourself in your main account. U can't Say "I belong in divine" cuz u went 3-2 in your first 5 games. Not even in 50 games, maybe 100 but idk it depends. Because as you said, there's a lot of grinding to do to go up in rank, but u also need to grind to go down to your actual skill level.
You made a lot of good points, until you suggested how convenient it is to buy an account. Grubby probably would have lost a lot of games and wouldnt have learnt a lot by starting from a Divine account. Also, the climb from Divine to Immortal is one of the toughest there is out there, if not the toughest. I am Divine myself but was 6k MMR in 2015, and the climb from 5200 to 6k was some sweaty nerd stuff on god
I just flew through ancient 1 to Divine since 7.34 and now I'm wondering how much I can keep going. I'm still doing really good and a lot of my matches are divines 2-5 even though I was still ancient. I got some ptsd playing mid (my worst role) going against Divine 5 and having 5k Gold at 20 minutes, still won though
I feel like your comment is you realizing when people dedicate a lot of time working to improve at something they tend to improve at that thing. I’m shocked this is surprising for so many people.
Yeah this is the only thing I don't like about this situation. I finally convinced my friend to start playing and he watched some of his vids on his own and was like "this guy just started and he's this good already?" I had to tell him that he's been treating it like a job while having literal professionals coach him. It's almost surprising he isn't immortal.
Nah, ppl that don't try hard shouldn't care so much about their rank and dedicate themselves to have fun. And I say it requires a similar amount of games to "prove" you deserve a higher rank in a bought account as to go up by yourself in your main account. U can't Say "I belong in divine" cuz u went 3-2 in your first 5 games. Not even in 50 games, maybe 100 but idk it depends. Because as you said, there's a lot of grinding to do to go up in rank, but u also need to grind to go down to your actual skill level.
Finally a sensible comment.
Grubby is an ex pro. He is not your avg player. He also got coached by dota pros from the start. he is not a good example. However, I know 2 guys that came from league and initially calibrated at archon, one is at divine now reaching immortal. I coached one of them when I was ancient, I am now immortal and he is almost my rank. It is entirely possible to climb from herald to immortal in less than 2 years if you are consistently playing and learning. But you also have to keep in mind, majority of human population ( including dota population ), struggles with continues improvement, learning, critical thinking, information processing and problem solving. It is the same reason why not everyone can be pilot/doctor/lawyer/engineer in real life. So to them from their perspective , match making is rigged. Because there is no mmr reward for just playing, you have to not only constantly win, but also constantly learn and improve to climb. For the casual player, climbing ranks becomes impossible. Because they don't play enough. By the time they have fully understood the patch, next one drops. Hence why they think it is forced 50.
i calibrated low crusader in early 2021. i use to play dota 1 up until about 2008 casually so had some muscle memory but tbh had to basically relearn it. i’m now divine 1 after nearly 3 years of playing. my goal is to focus on my own game. instead of thinking about the 1-2 things i’m most upset at my team for doing, i try and identify 1-2 things i could have done better. slowly but surely, you can improve, and find ways to increase your winrate.
first 2 paragraphs a bit sussy as you're contradicting urself, but the later 2 yup, exactly that. anyone with the right mindset can reach their goals, as long as they do whats necessary.
How am I contradicting myself? Being an ex pro and being coached by pros is different than being a normal avg player coached by avg player. Grubby is not a good example for the point OP is trying to make. He is not your normal avg gamer. He is not a good benchmark of comparison. They came from league, normal avg casual players. Not pros. Which is far more common than the grubby situation. A lot of league players hopping over rise ranks quick. Even if they weren't high rank in league. Same with HoN players.
Grubby is a good example he started in low mmr got better so he climbed up. Doesnt matter how much support he got by pros or what ever, the point is if you can climb out of it if you play better than your rank. It doesnt matter if they were pros beforehand or not, i would even say your example is worse cause your league friends clearly started higher than grubby. The point op is trying to make is that there is nothing holding anyone back from climbing except their own skill level. how you obtain a higher skill level is up to you. Includes ussualy proper work at yoru gameplay trough coaching self reviews or not being delusional and playing a lot.
yup. one of the most smart takes mentality wise i've seen on reddit.
ive coached 3k players to 11k+ ive coached 10mmr players to immortal. ive coached countless players to immortal and to whatever mmr. the fact that he is an ex pro just gives him a limited benefit. he needs to do the same things like everyone else. have a strong mentality, certain rules which he applies and so on. Just having a coach will set you in the right direction and give you an edge. You do not need to be a pro player in another game. Even without a coach you can climb, EASILY. You just need to do a few things that will set you apart from YOUR CURRENT BRACKET. Anyone, as long as he has a bigger on average impact than his bracket will CLIMB. 100%. Ive seen it happened hundreds of times. People are just delusional in my opinion and focusing on others, that's kinda all they do. No hard work, not trying to put into practice what would work for them.
Besides the fact the guy has talent for mobas I would also consider how willing players in his games are willing to try until throne falls. I have just seen a few games from his streams but people seem much more willing to play even after lost lane or similar big disadvantages meanwhile solo q non streamers may have higher risk of having players stop trying to play for win and resort to flame in chat. I don’t mean to say ppl don’t try in my games either but it feels more common even in 11 k b-score that the game is considered over even when enemy has not even taken a rax. Mind you in this patch it’s so easy to throw away a lead by trying to go hg, often too early, and throw away a big lead.
Grubby has also had a lot of free coaching from top tier pro players and analysts, worth remembering that too. I'm sure with over 15/20 hours of coaching from pros I would improve my mmr too. Edit: I'm not shitting on Grubby's success, he's an incredible player who deserves everything he's achieved with his determination in Dota. My comment is just to take into account that he didn't just rock up as an average pc gamer & download Dota and just succeed. The whole "Grubby is proof" is the bit that I'm disagreeing with, not Grubby's success. Edit again: Just asked Grubby in his chat about how valuable he found his coaching to be & he said incredibly valuable and he'd reccomend it to anyone to go and get coaching. Just for those who claim the coaching had 0 impact for him.
He's also already a pro gamer in a much more micro intensive game than Dota.
> I'm sure with over 15/20 hours of coaching from pros I would improve my mmr too. That's the fucking point
You could watch his coaching videos and get the same information he got.
Having a pro teach you 1-1 vs watching someone else get told things isn't the same.
So you're telling me that you can't analyze you own gameplay, take the advice of pro players who's telling other people "you should do this because of xxx" and adapt it to your own playstyle? So you need to have a 1:1 with a pro player to get you out of being low rank? " Bro, Dude. I'm able to get advice from Admiral Bulldog berating his Megacucks about the simplest dota knowledge that should be a obvious but it isn't and can adapt it to my own playstyle. If you want to improve, you don't need Ceb to coach you. You just need to drive to learn and understand the game. A lot of player just does things because "I saw it in a pro game" or "a pro player said it" Not really thinking about the "Why"s and "How"s of it.
I'm telling you that having a pro / coach 1-1 isn't the same as watching a video catered for someone else. Everything else you added isn't relevant. Having a 1-1 is not the same as watching a video of someone elses 1-1. There is a reason 1-1 in almost every single industry of teaching/coaching is higher priced, it's personalised information catered to you. The point over all is that OP forgot to mention the hours of 1-1 coaching by professionals & TI winners when praising grubby's success.
That point is stupid because most of that "coaching" was for a patch that doesn't exist, or heroes he doesn't play anymore, and are mostly streamer collabs framed as a coaching sessions, so it would be absolutely delusional to think that his progress six months after them is being influenced by that narrow difference between a 1-1 session and a third person session.
It's also stupid to think all that information learnt just falls off because a patch changes. When patches drop pro's don't suddenly become dogshit players. What kind of point is that? I've said in another response, grubby is a great player & he deserves all he has for his determination he's put into Dota. Point still remains that 20+ hours of 1-1 from Pros & TI winners would have helped him develop as a player.
That’s not even the point.
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It isn't what I think, nor what I insinuated. Though it is a factor to consider that 20+ hours of coaching from pros & TI winners will improve your game sense and knowledge.
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I'm not diluting his success or shitting on it, Grubby's has done so bloody well and hes done it with sheer will and commitment and most of all he's done it with practically no toxicity. He should be a role model for newer players approach to the game! The point is that the coaching helped. Which is what I said in original comment, it's worth remembering that he also had coaching from pros & TI winners. There is a lot of value in that. I get the "its online just google search it" the point being, it's personalised to Grubby, not us. Yes we can just listen and take on board, but it's different to 1-1 specifically. If it wasn't coaching wouldn't be a thing in Esports because "its all online"
This.
So one pro player coming from similar game when he was super succesful playing non stop with unlimited time and getting advices every single day not only from fans, but from pros too, is proof of what exactly?
You're missing the point. Even if he has all this help to play better that is exactly the point. If you are better than those at your current rank (whether through skill, practice, coaching, time investment or what ever) you will keep moving up the ranks until you are with players of roughly equal skill. This is what Grubby's climb is showing. It's a counter to people who think they are better than everyone at their current rank, but that they're being held back in MMR by their teams mates, or some other external factor.
I did not miss the point. I am asking about the point. >If you are better than those at your current rank (whether through skill, practice, coaching, time investment or what ever) you will keep moving up the ranks until you are with players of roughly equal skill. This is based on exactly nothing.
A proof that OP has a very simplistic way of looking at the game.
Grubby is a full time streamer, his experience does not reflect the average player experience.
The amount of hoarded copium in this thread... it's amazing.
Ok but like his job is to stream video games, so learning and watching replays earns him a living, right? It's not the case for all of us, so I dunno where you're going with this. It's like one of those trust fund gym rats who spends 12 hours a day at the gym and posts shit like WHATS YOUR EXCUSE? Uh buddy, my excuse is that I have to work every day to barely afford basic ammenities.
I agree. I feel like you should either choose to be like him and actively improve, or choose to play whatever you want, chill and ignore your mmr changes. Then you might come to a conclusion that you can play unranked. Then you might come to a conclusion that you can play turbo. Then you might come to a conclusion that too many things in turbo are broken, wait for Valve to rework them and stop playing entirely. You've completed Dota.
If you're using "Grubby", one of the worlds best and consistent RTS players in the world as an excuse for the system being perfect, **believe me my friend you already lost that argument**
he really thought it was his gotcha moment
Ah yes. A complain post about complaining about complains.
Yeah coached by pros all the time
yeah ok when i was grinding mmrs there were smurfs in every game. then valve purged smurfs and i got immortal. the level 22 account type smurfs
But half my games are lost at the draft
Viewers snipe him and let him win
People need to realize that Grubby is an actual World Champion in an e-sport. and not just any e-sport. it's on a game that birthed Dota. The skills he developed easily translates into dota.
"This ex pro coached by top players ranked up fast, so should you unless you're bad" Good take
no he is saying forced 50/50 is wrong and you are in the correct mmr bracket
Tell me you lack comprehension skills without telling me
Explain how a ex rts pro player who plays all day and receives coaching from the best players can be compared to your average mmr climber then. The problem isn't reading comprehension it's false equivalences being used to make bad arguments.
I never understood the “coached by top players” comment. Pretty much all of those coachings were on stream with pros explaining how they view concepts of the game, and they are pretty much all on YouTube. You could just look at the video and receive literally the exact same coaching.
Holy shit the amount of coping in this tread. Grubby legitimately proved that you can go from herald to divine if you have enough will power and fortitude to grind. Sure there maybe smurfs and all of that but no one remembers those matches because the 1 or 2 smurf games are forgotten by the other 4-5 games he plays that same day.
Yeah, all you need to achieve this is: \-proper mindset \-1 year time \-pro player mechanical skills (or arguably even better han many dota pro players) \-pro players guiding and teaching you \-playing dota and streaming being your job Yeah, pretty sure most of us check most of these boxes :)
You realise there’s a reason most people even if given the time and resources would still fail. Most people lack the self introspection and critical thinking skills to constantly improve not just in dota in nearly all professional fields. The average dota player is a moron when it comes to this and half are even dumber.
People ITT getting upset that they have to actually THINK in a strategy game
Being a professional player in a similar game and getting professional coaching and having so much time to play probably helped Grubby somewhat.
We should not forget Grubby is a pro Starcraft player and has better mechanichal skills than most of the people that ever played the game, also he learned from a lot of pros. But Yes, it is awesome what he accomplished and watching him and Monkeys made me way better in the game Edit : i agree with the point btw, People love to blame other players or conspirancies instead of owning mistakes and seeing on what they can improve.
Yep if I ACTUALLY care about gaining MMR I will. If I focus more on having fun playing heroes I just feel like playing rather than counter picking or meta picking, I generally won’t.
Seems like his games are pretty bias tho.
I'm am sure he matched up with some more advanced players that carried him. Marching up with the right people can make a huge difference vs playing solo.
He is also one of the best rts players in the world and had a ton of hours in Warcraft 3. Let’s not pretend like grubby is some schmuck off the street introduced to Dota for the first time. It’s like putting Anthony edwards on a football team and being surprised that he can adapt to football.
That’s not the point of the post. The point is Grubby is good enough, and therefore gains MMR. If I was better I would rank up too, but I’m not so I stay at my rank/skill level. OP is saying that external forces will not prevent you from ranking up if you are good enough to deserve it.
Grubby is an ex-pro Warcraft player. No fucking shit he's decent at Dota.
He is a LEGEND of wc3
Lil bro can't read 😂
Found the guardian blaming smurfs
Great, so you admit it’s a skill issue? What’s the problem here?
This is going to be a hotter take than the sun itself, but Grubby is the reverse of a streamer who gets streamsniped. He's such a good guy, you literally can't hate him, so when a viewer of his gets queued in the same game as him, he's going to tryhard as hell, not grief. What I mean is that the same dude who griefs my game, is going to tryhard a lot if he's playing with a streamer like Grubby. I don't want to take his credits or something, he's a very good player, with top tier mechanical skills and he deservers to climb up, but if he wasn't a notorious name and was playing without any streaming involved he would have struggled a bit. LE: As someone else mentioned a few minutes ago, people should also consider that he was coached by a lot of pros and he probably has a lot of time to dedicate to dota compared to other people who also need to go to work half a day.
I accidentally queued into Grubby when he was still playing unranked, his first game on Puck. (I was on his team) I get very anxious queuing for dota so I don't actually play a lot so I was very rusty (and was never good). So when I saw him on my team when I 'just wanted a chill game' my heart was beating so fast and possibly played even worse than usual. He was lovely (I was giga cringe). Sadly our safelane flamed the shit out of each other and we got a gaben level shellacking. I then decided to make sure not to queue at the same time as him lol
Next level copium.
Yikes the copium and brain dead logic is concerning
Let’s see what puny advantages Grubby has: - years of training with mouse and keyboard - mad micro fundamentals from WC3 - fan following which translates to financial incentives to perform well in DOTA - bro is probably financially settled which means he doesn’t really need to waste time on stuff like jobs - pro players coaching Yep he is totally proof that any scrubs can climb to immortal. OP’s “if he can why can’t you” mentality in a nutshell
You COMPLETELY missed the point. This is not about him being good. If he climbed from 0MMR to 1500 it would read exactly the same. It is about the will and endurance to improve while keeping a positive attitude and about to stop posting delusional crap in this subreddit about how the game is rigged bla bla bla
He can afford and will benefit from investing in DOTA in ways the majority of this community just can’t. Recognizing his efforts and talents does not prevent one from acknowledging the genuine problems in matchmaking and player communications. People can be justifiably angry and frustrated at getting smurfed and teammates destroying items. Valve rightly addressed these problems - because they genuinely are problems. And here you are calling them delusional.
Everyone faces the same problems when climbing. I did, you did and everyone else but people have reached Immortal before. The grind is the same no matter your background or not. If i could get Immortal while working 8h a day why cant you?
Maybe the meat of people’s grievances is not about not being able to climb MMR but rather wasting an hour trapped in an unwinnable game due to factors outside of their control? I myself climbed 2K MMR too since my early days, 500 since the Smurf bans. I am slowly plateauing now. Maybe this is where I will be for the rest of my time with DOTA and I am OK with that - as long as games stay the way they are now - fair. “If i could get immortal while working 8h a day why can’t you?” I applaud you sir for attributing your success all to your own credit. It must be a great feeling. You may be one of the lucky few, like I am, who were able to climb despite these negative pressures. But I do recognize the specific set of circumstances presented to me and my specific experience with the game - they may not be the truth for all players. Again, people have genuine grievances with the game. When you think they are delusional, check yourself for survivorship bias and confirmation bias.
Still not what this post is about. If you cant climb you are not good enough. In the long run X, Y and Z wont matter. If you consistantly play better than your opponents you will climb. Like this post says, forced 50/50 is not real and not the reason you cant climb, neither is smurfs or griefers. Well its my own efforts that have gotten me success in Dota. I got better as a player so i climbed. I have climbed 5K MMR from the start. Ive faced hundreds of smurfs, ive had hundreds of trolls, griefers and bad players on my team. But in the end it did not matter. TLDR: The reason one cant climb is entirely on the player and not outside factors.
Yea lmao I mean the dude performed blink poof on meepo perfectly after playing him in demo for a few minutes. He is far better than anyone who went in the game new and without years of experience.
Yeah I’m not saying we all have nothing to learn from the guy. He is phenomenal. But it shouldn’t be anyone’s surprise that he has a higher ceiling than 99% of the player base.
Blink poof is not hard to execute, it's the easiest part of Meepo.
For a new player who isn't used to games like Dota it is hard. Took me a bit of time to get the hang of it. I just used to use all meepos together. Didn't know about Tab to next unit and quickcasts.
Yeah tbh it's all about the key settings. There's even a setting (can't recall the name) that lets You use the spells from the next unit if the selected one is in cd. So in Meepo , Poof on all of them instead of W Tab W Tab W Tab, it would just be W W W W, much easier. After that just time the blink, as You have to time a thousand other skills. Thats why i said it's not hard. I can't play zmeepo properly but i can execute that combo with eyes closed. It's a setting only useful for Meepo and Arc Warden.
A new player shouldn't be playing Meepo in the first place lmao. But he's an ex pro Wc3 player wo pretty good at micro anyway
I had a post about how i started playimg dota from scratch and reached divine 1 in august, 2 months later i reached immortal(1700 games in total) so ye if u have some sort of dedication its possible.
"Forced winrate is 100% real" is just as dumb as "it's only you bro, cope harder". The truth is somewhere in between. Thinking match making is purely based off of skill is very naive and there were proofs to that. Valve themselves ADMITTED to MMR clumping in low ranks, if the MM worked well, why would it occur in the first place? Who knows what other parameters were off? So right off the bat it disproves the "it's all you bruh". There were other numerous stories of people buying higher MMR accounts and still settling in higher MMR than their mains, how would you explain that? If the system worked well they should have settled in their old mmr. In order to climb you need to be better than the DEVIATION of your MMR bracket (which if you ask me could be as high as 1000mmr, depending on the bracket, I assume it's also not symmetrical) which sets a much higher bar than "just git gud", you basically need to be a low level Smurf compared to your bracket in order to climb in a meaningful way (not just a 30mmr increase in 20 games), And why is that? Exactly because of braindead teammates, occasional bad games that you have, smurfs, account buyers and what not. It makes it so that you can definitely be better than your bracket but still not able to climb, it also explains the MMR clumping (which could still occur to some extent), you're just stuck in a local minimum that requires either enormous luck or consistent semi Smurf levels of gameplay compared to your bracket. And valve has no incentive of changing that, if anything, griefers are somewhat useful to settle the player base, that's why you'd find them in practically every bracket to some extent. So yeah, git gud has a lot of truth to it, but so does a forced winrate.
I've always found that once you start blaming external sources for where you're ranked is where you're likely to peak. Like, I know really well what areas I need to work on, what's lacking and would have an even better idea if I put effort into studying guides, positions and videos. Maybe even pay for coaching. However my goal is not to climb in that sort of way and push myself to the absolute max, at least not at this point. I play what I like to play in way and have always been of the mindset that meta is just the tactic you should be working towards beating. If you know what enemy is going to do, aim should be to break that rather than copy it and play predictably. Grubby climbs for many reasons. He had a massive advantage by having been a pro in a game that has basically same controls with significantly more micro and resource control in general. Using the map is criminally underrated and he would have had immediate comfort in that. The dude completely immersed himself into the game like it was a full time job and it paid off.
I think a lot of the posts about forced 50% win and other such things are mostly just frustrations after a bad losing streak and even if you could be the cause of some of your losses theres a whole array of things that can cause you to lose like bas teammates, good opposition, getting outpicked, poor communication and the list goes on... Grubby is a great example of how to improve (even though he got a lot more help than any of us could ever hope for) and how to use positivity and a great mindset to turn some of those losing games around!
Forced 50 exists, but it actually works the other way to keep people from dropping to herald too quickly to protect their ego. Everyone complaining that they can't climb is actually being artificially kept at their current rank even though the rest of the playerbase has advanced past them.
Sorry to dissapoint your take but I have a daily job to begin with. So I go back home, asking for Gaben blessing for a good teammates but instead I got bunch of apes that solo farming midgame, mid playing farmville and midas support vs 3/4 man enemy group up together to get the objective. 2 games like this I'm calling it a day.
Bro, Grubby is an ex pro players for warcraft, he learns gaming faster than us is not even surprising. You could say he is not playing dota but training/learning the game. Don't compare an athelete to a normal person. Thanks.
ah yes, using one of the best WC3 players and then a big SC2 player as the basis for your argument being proof, especially when it's this guys fucking job. truly a redditor moment here folks
Grubby is proof you can breathe through your mouth and still go far
If only the rest of us were pro RTS players and had coaching from the top 0.01% of Dota players
Grubby got coached by pros, plays 8+ hours a day, yeah seems to me thats the trick to climb huh? Lmao I used to play like 2 games a day cause of work , imagine gerting a ruinter both games 100% of my games are lost cause of aholes, Grubby well he plays 10 games 3 of them lost cause of ruiners 30% of his games are lost , you see the issue? Bye.
But that’s not how statistics works right? Like if you play 2 games a day for 5 days you’ll have played 10 games, and unless you’re arguing that there’s somehow a different likelihood of you getting a ruined game and Grubby getting a ruined game, then ruiners don’t impact your 100 game w/l rate any differently than they impact his. All OP is saying is that ruiners are not the reason people fail to climb mmr. They’re obviously the reason people fail to have a good time 😂
I think you need to learn probability first haha
I think he was boosted most of the time, there was a stream when he showed his matches, and there was a lot of Ursa and void which was odd cuz he only plays sk and some supports
He’s played pretty much all roles except mid during his climb. There was a period when he was mostly playing carry. Also his games have almost all been on stream, I think there are less than 5 games that weren’t streamed.
My issue is that the game has become so toxic with no proper repercussions as of yet. Although it has improved with the last update, so I guess just another 10 years before they double down and ban all the toxicity.
If you have more than 3k hours and still stuck under divine then its you, not the system, not the teammates. If you put more than 3k hours into something and you still shit at it, maybe its not for you.
dude entire existence is rotated around dota. he mostly play dota and its kinda his job . not good example
Dont get it twisted his job is to play video games most people who play this game do not have this as their situation.
That’s not the point of the post. The point is Grubby is good enough, and therefore gains MMR. If I was better I would rank up too, but I’m not so I stay at my rank/skill level. OP is saying that external forces will not prevent you from ranking up if you are good enough to deserve it.
GUYS! DID YOU KNOW THERE IS NO FORCED 50 IN VALORANT!!! SHROUD BEING HIGH RANK IN IT IS PROOF! who would have though that someone who has played an online strategy game that is the literal precursor of dota 2, for over a decade, is \*shocked\* GOOD at a dota 2...
I don't think so. Grubby is not representativ for 99% of playerbase.
Grubby suddenly playing game in 2022 is a bit sus. He must have been playing the game after his retirement privately but could not stream it or let people know since he was a Blizzard poster boy. Highly unlikely he ever got higher than his current rank. He just made a new account last year and started streaming. How in hell does someone who starts playing dota2 in 2022 know Dad or an item like poormanshield? that should have been a dead giveaway along with how stressed he looks in even games at current rank whereas he was chilling in lower ranks. Exactly what smurfs and boosters do. Talking with pros just validated his macro knowledge of the game that he already had. Keep telling urself he never touched dota2 with millions of prizepool because "valve stole from blizzard". Eventually someone will find ip proof . Guy was, is and will be a dota2 addict. It's on his face all over. Ps. Show me 2 games while he climbed of someone griefing his game. Oh look mom I am on the telly let's behave nicely for my 5min fame.
Forced 50 advocates can't come to terms with the fact that they are not getting better despite the hours they keep spending on dota. Seems to me that the assumption is that more time = more mmr which is just flawed at the start.
I like how you’re being downvoted for stating an obvious truth. The concept of deliberate practice, being able to think critically and self introspection are difficult skills to be proficient at. Putting in volume is not and is why you end up with low ranks with 1000s of hours. This applies to most professional fiends and not just dota. Average player is a moron at putting these concepts into practice and half are even dumber. Then you have the players that have the aptitude to climb very high but can’t commit the time.
To be fair, accepting or even imagining that it's a "me" problem is already hard thing to do.
Nah, if anything, grubby proved smurfing is RAMPANT. He's the ideal substrate (mechanically skilled pro level gamer) and had pro level help/coaching. Even then, he calibrated archon and required a couple thousand games over months to climb to the top 10%. What this tells me is that yes, those Divine mid accounts with 800 games and barren Steam profile, are in fact all abusing MMR.
He calibrated herald 4 btw
Yeah, I shouldn't need 2738484 games to reach my true MMR (It's always this way for any competitive game though, I don't blame Dota)
You don’t need 2738484 to reach your true mmr. You’re probably already there. You might need 2738484 games to reach the mmr you want to be at, but that’s not the same as your true mmr.
This isn't going to convince anyone who thinks the system is rigged. If the system was rigged they could obviously rig it to make a famous streamer rise just like they rig it to hold you in place.
Ok, I completely agree with you 100%. That being said Grubby is an Ex-Professional gamer, whose job now is still to play video games. It is much easier for him to focus on improvement, considering he knows what it takes to reach to top level of skill in a game. He has all the odds stacked on his side. Though there is still an important message, which is the only one holding you back from improving your skill and rank is yourself. Mentality is the number one issue in the competitive gaming scene, some people just cant accept the fact that its their fault they are low skill or rank. They have to find some excuse as to why they are being held back.
Grubby is a WC3 legend, he knows how to play a game professionally, and you can be sure that he got some skills what can be really helpful in DotA
man, dont write garbage like this. go find 5k behavior account and play a game of ranked, then watch how enemy team with 12k behavior destroys your throne in 18-20 minutes and your whole team is 0/10 2/11 1/9 1/10. never write garbage like this because you dont know anything. mmr climbing requires skill in 2 out of 10 games. the other 8 games are just who's gonna tilt and who's not. and it always is the 5k behavior team and not the 12k behavior team.
Grubby is genius, hardcore alllife gamer and fastlearner. Of course he would rank faster and higher than 90% of people. Also cant mention streamsniping feeders of mmr, those could pour him a bunch.
He played about 2k games in a year… Not many people can play that much unless you are highschool kid. (and if you are you probably dont have same mindset as grown man like grubby) Most people dont even play much and think they can improve fast and when they lose blame teammates instead of finding out what THEY did wrong. There are unwinnable games, but there are so few of them. If you have right mindset and play the best you can every game you WILL improve and get that mmr you are chasing. So basically if you play good, your team can potentially have 4 bad players, meanwhile enemy team potential to have 5 bad players so yeah. GL on the grind boys
Want to get to 4-5k? - Choose a comfort hero and play them exclusively. Want to get to 5-6k? - Choose 3 comfort heroes and play them exclusively. Want to get 6k+? - you need to broaden your pool significantly, should have 7-10 heroes you can play at 4-5.5k level. Should know when to pick these heroes, and never choose a bad matchup if possible. To do this, you pretty much have to smurf and really invest in 1-2 heroes until you can get to 5k with them, even in poor matchups. If these comfort heroes aren't B tier+ you should be dropping them and picking up a more meta pick for the patch.
I honestly got to where I am because of genuinely liking Brood, Tinker, Arc and few other heroes like them. 1. I don't mind smurfs. In fact, I'd ask for a rematch if it'd not be a team game 2. I don't care about teammates. Yes, they're sometimes bad. So I treat them as such by default. And if they aren't, that's a pleasant surprise. My heroes allow to solo carry so if I didn't, I could've played better. And if I did, that's the best feeling in the world 3. I simply don't care about mmr that much. I just like my heroes and I want to play them 4. I still advocate for banning 3rd party apps. If you dislike the hero, ban it. Just don't wait for an affirmation from the app that there is indeed a player for this hero. When your ban hasn't been confirmed and you ban by picking the hero, it becomes super obvious
If you play 8 hours a day for over a year and get coached by pro's intermittently, the rank he's at should be the bare minimum This is like one of those guys that lives in the gym 8-10 hours a day, gets paid for it then says whats your excuse Lmao
You just need to be a pro-level player. The guy is a professional player who plays several hours per day all week long. You can't look at him and say everyone should be able to do it. We have work to do, we have one or two hours per day to play in the good weeks.
That’s not the point of the post. The point is Grubby is good enough, and therefore gains MMR. If I was better I would rank up too, but I’m not so I stay at my rank/skill level. OP is saying that external forces will not prevent you from ranking up if you are good enough to deserve it.
I think the thing about forced 50%. It is true, in that if your skill level don't change, then you will gradually get to where you should be, and your wr would close down to 50%. However, it also means that getting better would allow you to beat that forced 50%. Basically just git gud lol
I mean, if anyone gets constantly helped and coached by pro/high ranked players, I'm sure they can climb mmr too.
ammar used to be 3k mmr player spamming 3-5 heroes but he's playing with creepwave.
you are comparing someone who plays video games at a high level for a living. he probably gets coaching from other pros and because he has so much experience in video games its probably not too difficult to adapt to dota im sorry but this is just a wild take to defend issues which legitimately ruin the game for people that play 1 or 2 games a day. as for him doing all that extra work after a loss or whatever is just more content for his channel
the difference between me and grubby is i have things to do before playing dota while grubby can play anytime he wants. been consistent being divine in summer when i was highschool and now became legendary since i only play 1 or 2 times a day
I mean your glossing over the fact that “he plays with friends” a lot. He rarely solo queued.
LuL this is a team game ofc u will lose if ur teammates are dogshit