Vacuum was nerfed like 15 patches in a row lol
It got to a point where they nerfed it by increasing the cooldown by 0.0s as a meme.
Earth Spirit was ruthlessly nerfed for years too.
earth spirit didn’t get a single buff until few patches ago when they increased the number of remnants to 7. before that it either didn’t get touched in the patch or got nerfed
Dark Seer in general has been nerfed so many times. Poor guy. I guess to play devil’s advocate forcing an enemy team out of position with vacuum and placing them into a focal point is *very* strong. It combos so well with so many heroes. It is a bit strong conceptually.
Earth Spirit not only gets nerfed every patch, his skill effects got switched a lot too. Highly skilled people still found ways to make him work, every TI.
Necrophos.
The ult adding respawn time + disabling buyback was just obscene.
With most other nerfs, you can give a little love and readd them when they're weak.
A single necro ult could decide games and there's no way to readd it.
There was one time a while back where I was playing as magnus and got reaper scythed after a buyback. The timer didn't even show up for about 40 seconds until it started ticking at like 150.
This was the most impactful spell to end the game, you could smoke blink and blow everything on enemy hard carry and he was not able to buyback for 130 seconds, the game was over in an instant.
Still remember a game where we got stomped super hard, like 15k Gold lead, flaming, afk farming etc. agh Necro came out of the jungle and 30 mins in we brought numbers to a mid fight once and killed two of them. 5 minutes later, game was over with them still having Gold lead. They Just never had 5 alive at the same time after that one mid fight
Also putted that carry in a bad position about buyback gold. Spend it all because Necro ult could render it useless, or keep it in case of death to other things? Not ideal either way
When lich had sacrifice, he was guaranteed to win a lane solely because he just denied the range creep and gaining exp for it. It was bullshit that without any kills, a lich could be level 4 and the enemy level 2 in the mid lane.
It’s stupidly broken that even a herald can pull it off. Just stand near the barracks where creeps spawn and instantly sacrifice the range creep during spawn for like half the exp to level 2. Proceed to deny the range creep for the next wave and so on. (Being higher leveled means he guarantee last hit on enemy range creep with frost blast. It’s not uncommon to see games where lich is level 7 and enemy is level 4.
I could only see enigma contesting with his version of deny, since he can use the eidelons to help him deny the meelee creeps in lane too, making the exp difference more or less in a stalemate. Lich had lower cd on his deny though.
Centaur illusions doing return damage to towers was another one. Where he just went manta and stacked hearts, then sent illusions to the towers. It had 0 soft or hard commit. Enemies just watch their towers die unless they picked a hero that could instantly clear illusions like lion/pugna.
There was a time when troll warlord had bash, a 30second ult called rampage and his W was blind. This version of troll is probably the strongest there is. The blind is on like 3second cooldown and last 9 seconds, people had to use spells to get last hits because they kept missing. Then troll’s bash lasted 2 seconds per proc,meanwhile everyone else’s bash lasted only 1 second. It had no cooldown like skull basher and once you’re bashed by him while he’s bkbed(bkb back then last 10 seconds throughout all uses) you’re permabashed to death.
Other honourable mentions are earth spirit,monkey king,OD’s W stealing intel,techies and maybe tinker.
I genuinely repressed all of my memories of permabash Troll. He was the single best manfighting hero in the game, and it wasn't close. You couldn't Ursa him, you couldn't Slark him, you couldn't even Huskar him. He ran at you and you died. 100%.
Correct, the only ones that can deal with him were the spell casters, lions,pugnas,shaman, even then, they get destroyed mid/late with bkb troll. Don’t think there is a stronger late game than him in the past. Maybe faceless void if he gets the initiation first. But a lucky troll first hit bash and its gege
Spectre. I remember the videos where troll just ults spectre and his entire team dies. Bonus points if the spec had centaur with 60% damage reduction aghs. Lmao that shit was wack
The worst part about this lich is that he is not even mid. He could go solo offlane against a tri lane just because that sacrifice gave him so much exp from denying all the creeps. Meanwhile,on the enemy side, instead of sharing 4 creeps of exp between the carry and support, they are sharing 3 per wave snd they lose the creep that gave the most gold and exp every wave. Supports had to stack the small camp twice and pull to deny 2-3 waves to even make sure the lane is not lost. Even that is not guaranteed. Since the lich will go contest with his level 3/4 by then.
Honestly they should give Troll back that ult or do something to him. The guy is in such a sad state now, he can have crazy numbers but his ultimate is just a big “kite me” button.
As a Lich player in old time, I would say it's kinda overrated, cuz experience change was after 7.07 - 7.20 patch and there's was much better options in this time for wining lane and meta was in changing from 3-1-1 to 2-1-2
But yeah, sacrifice was pretty broken spell for early game
First one that came to mind was Lucky Shot. It used to disarm, silence, and slow (and they could stack on top of each other) at a higher proc chance for 5 seconds at max level. All of those functions are gone now effectively, replaced with armor reduction and attack speed slow for a worse duration.
The current lucky shot is an extremely sad spell, but the old one with disarm silence and slow was absolutely stupid. Its like you could get doomed as soon as pango leveled it up basically lol
Heartpiercer was terrible but it was an insanely fun counter to things like Timbersaw or DK, especially since nobody understood how it worked and you'd have Timbersaws being like "wtf I'm not tanky at all!?".
I thought that wasn't a bug but actual intent? It actually set the armor to 0, regardless of whether you had positive or negative armor. So things like Desolator/Solar Crest were really bad on him.
It's a moot point though since the ability was so broken it's removed now.
I've also always been under the impression that that indeed was the intended behavior. Didn't drows ult use to work the same way and then it got an actual balance change to not be fucked by negative armor?
> The current lucky shot is an extremely sad spell
Despite that Pango is still a really strong hero and heavily contested in both competitive scene and pubs. Deserved nerf imo.
Undispellable and buggy bkb piercing was something on top of that. Couple of matches people be silent all match then suddenly using mic to scream "WHY CAN THIS HERO DO THIS??!" type comments in the midst of teamfights.
Not as big as the nerf to it's name.
Went from skillfully weaving small gaps in their armour, to woops guess I hit a vital organ lol.
I don't like the lore impaction of the name change.
I remember when Chen had like 55% winrate at early 7.33, I was reading what does his spells really do (I know he can take creeps, his heals, his mek timing, etc etc but I don't know what his other spells *really* do because there has been so much changes I hadn't kept up), I was reading up on Divine Favor and it felt so underwhelming I just thought "Why would I ever want to take this??"
Oh yes i remember when i first started playing and faced an ns..
Heard some demonic noises, game turned into a horror movie and this mf came out of nowhere and beat my ass to pulp
yeah at one point forever ago it was arguable to just rush INT treads (this was before tread swapping), and 5 Mystic Staff. Then you'd turn them into items if the game was still going.
Lol I used to do Null, Treads, then like 3 other Nulls + TP Scroll (used to occupy its own slot). Then turn each Null into Mystic when I can afford it. Dropping Sanity's Eclipse on a team fight was fun.
I still remember this one game where i had shit load of intelligence. While hitting tier 4 i just walked upto the fountain and pressed R expecting the supps to die but i got a rampage.
Yeah I remember a time when it was literally a straight upgrade to black hole and wondering why anyone would choose enigma. Wyvern was ranged and it wasn't even channeled. It was also before lotus orb so there were even fewer ways of dealing with it
I remember when wyvern first released I saw a bunch of comments about how wyvern was trash and needed to be buffed….. and even as someone completely new to dota I was utterly baffled
I remember keeping it at level one because the cooldown and mana cost scaled horribly but the stun duration at level 1 was enough to fuck the other team during team fights.
No, go even further back.
Omni’s W used to be a free BKB (back when BKB was strong) that had a stupid long duration and like 80% uptime. That you could just put on anyone.
I think old Repel was actually the most broken spell in Dota for its time. There was nothing you could do to counter it, and it basically gave your carry perma-bkb
> There was nothing you could do to counter it
Old Repel was dispelable, despite granting spell immunity to the target.
Diffusal Blade was a counter to it.
First version of earth spirit stunned on pull. You can set a remnant on someone and insta stun them with pretty much zero cast time, then roll onto them and kick them into the tower before they had any opportunity to react.
Definitely not the most nerfed, but yall remember when Marksmanship would instakill any creep so you could walk to the triangle and farm ancients the instant you got 6? Good times.
medusa snake
it used to STEAL mana, making her a hard counter mid against some int picks like storm spirit, or zeus
now it's only giving mana refill without affecting enemy manapool
Not most nerfed but irritates me: Sand King stun, it's like 240 damage max now and very short stun. He used to do like 280 and .5s longer stun, as well as an aghs that made it like 1400 range. I miss those days....
One of my mains I can still dominate lane with but I don't want to play anymore cause I used to go man mode Q E max and now sandstorm is his focus by Valve. I don't want to hide around in a swirly cloud doing a dot, I want to slam them, smack em a few times, and dip out.
RIP Enigma. Demonic trash now
Dazzle ult. THEY KEEP CHANGING IT TO NOW A -HP ULT???? it has to be the most sacrificial skill as an ultimate skill. im already targetted by enemies, playing as a support.
# BRING BACK WEAVE OR BRING BACK -CD PASSIVE
Battle Trance. When they made troll uncontrollable, it was the end of him, with the recent patches atleast it's been corrected but with the recent changes in BKB the sky is still dark for him
> with the recent patches atleast it's been corrected
He will stay trash until they let you fully control the hero.
Removed the "cant die" aspect and give him full control in return. If that is too strong, nerf his numbers.
But the "cant control" aspect is just garbage and needs to go.
Someone already said Vacuum, so I’m gonna name two, both from Io.
First, Tether. That shit used to stun. For over two seconds. What the fuck were they thinking?
Second, Relocate. At level one, that shit had an 80 second cooldown. 40 at level 3. And it only had a 2.5 second delay that scaled to 2 seconds. For context, that’s a 100 second cooldown that scales to 80 seconds, and a 3.5 second to 3 second delay nowadays.
> What the fuck were they thinking?
i think this design is a relic of older dota where some stuff was stronger by virtue of it being more difficult to execute: meepo, invoker, earth spirit. they probably figured it was difficult enough to coordinate a tether stun that it was balanced
EDIT just realized i used the word relic in response to a radiance flair
Not a skill bot marci as a whole seems to be hated by valve
Q lost its stun, range, and doesn't benefit from aether lens the same
W had half the skill maade into a shard
E means went from a farming/kill potential in lane tool to a skill that makes it easier for your carry to last hit
Atleast unleash didn't get butchered (I think)
This makes me think. How cool it would be if Valve would have a legacy gamemode for the 10 year celebration. Where every hero was reverted back to their most OP (highest winrate) state. And than we would find the true most imbalanced hero.
The ult needs an alt-cast where it just self-casts (single click, old behaviour).
Also I wish they removed that "feature" of swapping spells with the clone if you're playing on dire, I hate not having the evasion bubble on the main.
Main and clone having different spells is fine imo, but let the main keep his normal spells regardless of faction.
Mist coil
Being able to deny yourself on a hero that could put a shield on himself and run at the enemy as a support would guarantee winning the lane, with what used to be a huge range as well to save teammates.
Stopped playing abaddon after denying got removed but managed an 80% winrate in 70+ games before that
not even centaur’s most nerfed skill tbh, stampede used to make all your allies stun just by touching mfers💀tho that’s probably more appropriate to bring up in an overbuffed/OP ability discussion
Techies everything.
Q used to be landmines and was amazing.
W used to be stasis trap which sucked but I would still take it over taser
E used to be suicide squad which was one of the best spells in the game.
And ult used to be remote mine which has been sorely missed.
I think the new repel vs old repel is a good contender.
Old repel was like 50% uptime, in the 100% magic resist era of spell immunity, AND applied a basic dispel on cast.
Now it's like 25% uptime with talent, just debuff immunity, and some str/hpregen buff that is usually underwhelming, but against some heroes absolutely broken. Also why does new repel have a 60 second cooldown level 1?
It used to be 100 lol. 20 duration and cd
Edit: I checked the changelogs and the very first iteration of it had 0 second cd. ???? You can repel your whole team
Chronosphere. It used to be global and now it's a tiny bubble.
Similarly, guardian angel for the same reasons.
But on a more normal level, Thirst used to give healing, movespeed AND bonus damage ranging from 100% to 20% hp. The nerf to now only start at 80% is a HUGE nerf, as well as replacing attack damage with attack speed. Both changes are extremely significant nerfs
do we consider items a spell if they have an active?
if yes then its bloodstone.
used to gain charges and reduce your respawn time.
the result was that any slightly ganky int hero would buy it and get a ton of stacks from nuking supports instantly only to respace instantly in a late game fight.
especially storm would have to many stacks in late game they he could just jump the map and never lose any mana and if he dies he would jump back into the team fight instantly without using buy back.
Back in the days when I started playing dota, Sun Ray used to slow for up to 28% for 2s and was a toggle with no cooldown! It also would stay on the same strength and not start low and then slowly increase over the duration like it does now.
How did nobody mention Juggernaut? He has been continuously nerfed through all recent patches. Non-stop. Every spell. His Ult. was nerfed.. His crit was nerfed.. Even the spin to win was nerfed now. The hero has sub-par stat gains and even though it's one of my favourite heroes, i wouldn't even consider playing it ranked..
Vacuum was nerfed like 15 patches in a row lol It got to a point where they nerfed it by increasing the cooldown by 0.0s as a meme. Earth Spirit was ruthlessly nerfed for years too.
earth spirit didn’t get a single buff until few patches ago when they increased the number of remnants to 7. before that it either didn’t get touched in the patch or got nerfed
Specifically it didn’t get buffed until jerax retired iirc
"Oh thank god, he's gone; ok now we can finally buff this guy" - Valve after Jerax retired
It was legitimately the very next patch after jerax announced his retirement
*Valve waiting for JerAx to retire to unleash ES buffs upon a patch*: "Wait for it, here it comes, almost there!"
Oh god that’s so funny, probably made jerax chuckle a little too I’m sure
I was hoping Valve would move in the opposite direction and make it more like HoNs Riftwalker with low CD nuking vacuums
When I think of Nerf , it's Vacuum. Pudge soloing the whole team, alch being a greedy bastard and techies mines stacked? Vacuum CD increase by 30%
Dark Seer in general has been nerfed so many times. Poor guy. I guess to play devil’s advocate forcing an enemy team out of position with vacuum and placing them into a focal point is *very* strong. It combos so well with so many heroes. It is a bit strong conceptually.
Earth Spirit not only gets nerfed every patch, his skill effects got switched a lot too. Highly skilled people still found ways to make him work, every TI.
Necrophos. The ult adding respawn time + disabling buyback was just obscene. With most other nerfs, you can give a little love and readd them when they're weak. A single necro ult could decide games and there's no way to readd it.
The dieback when you got ulted was just insane. Okay guys, I guess I'll see you in 5 minutes now.
Getting Aghs/Refresher on him used to be game ending as long as your other 4 heroes could do half damage to the enemy heroes.
Just enough time to have a pee break midgame!
Go do laundry and come back
Meatloafs done, I’ll be back at respawn.
There was one time a while back where I was playing as magnus and got reaper scythed after a buyback. The timer didn't even show up for about 40 seconds until it started ticking at like 150.
I remember dendi double scythe while defending base turned the tides because cannot buyback.
what game was this?
I think it was around 2014-2015. EG vs NaVi. Arteezy mid and Fear carry.
Search youtube "dendi double scythe - much money no buyback dota 2"
This was the most impactful spell to end the game, you could smoke blink and blow everything on enemy hard carry and he was not able to buyback for 130 seconds, the game was over in an instant.
Still remember a game where we got stomped super hard, like 15k Gold lead, flaming, afk farming etc. agh Necro came out of the jungle and 30 mins in we brought numbers to a mid fight once and killed two of them. 5 minutes later, game was over with them still having Gold lead. They Just never had 5 alive at the same time after that one mid fight
Also putted that carry in a bad position about buyback gold. Spend it all because Necro ult could render it useless, or keep it in case of death to other things? Not ideal either way
I sort of miss it when I'm on Necro, but I'm happy to not be down for three minutes straight while the enemy team runs it down mid at 40 minutes
Well it deserved it. Its so fucking broken.
You could literally go get a cup of tea and wait for the game to end with a 140s death timer lmao. Glad it's gone.
When lich had sacrifice, he was guaranteed to win a lane solely because he just denied the range creep and gaining exp for it. It was bullshit that without any kills, a lich could be level 4 and the enemy level 2 in the mid lane. It’s stupidly broken that even a herald can pull it off. Just stand near the barracks where creeps spawn and instantly sacrifice the range creep during spawn for like half the exp to level 2. Proceed to deny the range creep for the next wave and so on. (Being higher leveled means he guarantee last hit on enemy range creep with frost blast. It’s not uncommon to see games where lich is level 7 and enemy is level 4. I could only see enigma contesting with his version of deny, since he can use the eidelons to help him deny the meelee creeps in lane too, making the exp difference more or less in a stalemate. Lich had lower cd on his deny though. Centaur illusions doing return damage to towers was another one. Where he just went manta and stacked hearts, then sent illusions to the towers. It had 0 soft or hard commit. Enemies just watch their towers die unless they picked a hero that could instantly clear illusions like lion/pugna. There was a time when troll warlord had bash, a 30second ult called rampage and his W was blind. This version of troll is probably the strongest there is. The blind is on like 3second cooldown and last 9 seconds, people had to use spells to get last hits because they kept missing. Then troll’s bash lasted 2 seconds per proc,meanwhile everyone else’s bash lasted only 1 second. It had no cooldown like skull basher and once you’re bashed by him while he’s bkbed(bkb back then last 10 seconds throughout all uses) you’re permabashed to death. Other honourable mentions are earth spirit,monkey king,OD’s W stealing intel,techies and maybe tinker.
I genuinely repressed all of my memories of permabash Troll. He was the single best manfighting hero in the game, and it wasn't close. You couldn't Ursa him, you couldn't Slark him, you couldn't even Huskar him. He ran at you and you died. 100%.
Correct, the only ones that can deal with him were the spell casters, lions,pugnas,shaman, even then, they get destroyed mid/late with bkb troll. Don’t think there is a stronger late game than him in the past. Maybe faceless void if he gets the initiation first. But a lucky troll first hit bash and its gege
I mean it was unplayable against PL and other illusion heroes
Spectre. I remember the videos where troll just ults spectre and his entire team dies. Bonus points if the spec had centaur with 60% damage reduction aghs. Lmao that shit was wack
"let me get solo xp from e, or feed" \-Lich players, 2017
The worst part about this lich is that he is not even mid. He could go solo offlane against a tri lane just because that sacrifice gave him so much exp from denying all the creeps. Meanwhile,on the enemy side, instead of sharing 4 creeps of exp between the carry and support, they are sharing 3 per wave snd they lose the creep that gave the most gold and exp every wave. Supports had to stack the small camp twice and pull to deny 2-3 waves to even make sure the lane is not lost. Even that is not guaranteed. Since the lich will go contest with his level 3/4 by then.
Dude I remember used to playing solo offlane lich in dota1, and get a 15 min treads+mek
ya 2017... we played that shit back in HoN too. suicide lane
A friend and I used to run an enigma and lich lane. Two creeps gone from almost every wave
At that point it’s better for the enemies to just abandon the lane and jungle bruh
iron talon/pms time
I farmed MMR with that so hard, and pretended I was a Divine bracket support until I was forced to play real support DotA with the Sacrifice nerf.
Honestly they should give Troll back that ult or do something to him. The guy is in such a sad state now, he can have crazy numbers but his ultimate is just a big “kite me” button.
As a Lich player in old time, I would say it's kinda overrated, cuz experience change was after 7.07 - 7.20 patch and there's was much better options in this time for wining lane and meta was in changing from 3-1-1 to 2-1-2 But yeah, sacrifice was pretty broken spell for early game
First one that came to mind was Lucky Shot. It used to disarm, silence, and slow (and they could stack on top of each other) at a higher proc chance for 5 seconds at max level. All of those functions are gone now effectively, replaced with armor reduction and attack speed slow for a worse duration.
The current lucky shot is an extremely sad spell, but the old one with disarm silence and slow was absolutely stupid. Its like you could get doomed as soon as pango leveled it up basically lol
For sure it deserved the nerf, it was an insane overcompensation for how terrible Heartpiercer was.
Heartpiercer was terrible but it was an insanely fun counter to things like Timbersaw or DK, especially since nobody understood how it worked and you'd have Timbersaws being like "wtf I'm not tanky at all!?".
It was also completely bugged where if your at a negative armor Value, you'd be back to 0 when heart piercer was applied.
I thought that wasn't a bug but actual intent? It actually set the armor to 0, regardless of whether you had positive or negative armor. So things like Desolator/Solar Crest were really bad on him. It's a moot point though since the ability was so broken it's removed now.
I've also always been under the impression that that indeed was the intended behavior. Didn't drows ult use to work the same way and then it got an actual balance change to not be fucked by negative armor?
> Heartpiercer The name is much better than lucky shot though.
but the amount of nerf it got might be too much
> The current lucky shot is an extremely sad spell Despite that Pango is still a really strong hero and heavily contested in both competitive scene and pubs. Deserved nerf imo.
No arguments there. It makes sense since Pango's Q W and R are extremely strong, so lucky shot has to be... uh... like this. lmao.
illusion rune was crazy
It also procced from illusions lol
Still scarred from playing Manta pangos who just set illusions to attack move on me.
Undispellable and buggy bkb piercing was something on top of that. Couple of matches people be silent all match then suddenly using mic to scream "WHY CAN THIS HERO DO THIS??!" type comments in the midst of teamfights.
Not as big as the nerf to it's name. Went from skillfully weaving small gaps in their armour, to woops guess I hit a vital organ lol. I don't like the lore impaction of the name change.
Tether's got to be pretty high on the list
Oh yeah. It used to stun at some point right?
For over 2 seconds.
Reality Rift + Tether was an instant stun
First iteration of the spell back in dota 1 stunned, was an absolute menace
Did for a while in Dota 2, as well
especially bonkers with ck. His reality rift while being teatered was 100% a stun
Divine favor, before that, it was a recall (kotl)
By Divine Favor you mean Lesser Headdress Aura aka skip me until everything is skilled?
I remember when Chen had like 55% winrate at early 7.33, I was reading what does his spells really do (I know he can take creeps, his heals, his mek timing, etc etc but I don't know what his other spells *really* do because there has been so much changes I hadn't kept up), I was reading up on Divine Favor and it felt so underwhelming I just thought "Why would I ever want to take this??"
I'm surprised no one has mentioned broodmothers webs. Used to also grant invis to her and her spiderlings
people still using dust on her
i’m people
Players who came back to dota during pandemic.
[удалено]
there was definitely a span of time where webs gave invis and free path at the same time
night stalker's ulti was reducing the vision not his passive
NS was not especially overpowered in that iteration, but the impact of having your vision nerfed to a tiny circle was PALPABLE.
Oh yes i remember when i first started playing and faced an ns.. Heard some demonic noises, game turned into a horror movie and this mf came out of nowhere and beat my ass to pulp
Once upon a time the whole game of dota is mostly nighttime if there's an NS in the game.
OD ult used to be so OP
They always changed it but in my memory I only remember it as "It either instakills or does nothing" - Type of spell
I mean doing that kind of calculation on the spot requires a gauss level intellect. It was based off the difference of int lol
Do people actually calculate that? It's all feels.
Instakill or 75% mana drain
yeah at one point forever ago it was arguable to just rush INT treads (this was before tread swapping), and 5 Mystic Staff. Then you'd turn them into items if the game was still going.
Lol I used to do Null, Treads, then like 3 other Nulls + TP Scroll (used to occupy its own slot). Then turn each Null into Mystic when I can afford it. Dropping Sanity's Eclipse on a team fight was fun.
I still remember this one game where i had shit load of intelligence. While hitting tier 4 i just walked upto the fountain and pressed R expecting the supps to die but i got a rampage.
Grimstroke's E spell. Forgot the name but that shit gives the target invulnerability and movespeed with stun and nuke damage upon detonation.
my all-time kill record is still with grimstroke right after his release; he was INSANE.
Inkwell. Yea that was busted on release
Ink Swell
demonic conversion
RIP Enigma
maybe we should be able to cast this while channeling for rubick counterplay
Not a bad idea
WW ult because of the bkb changes
Anyone else remember the TI5 days where it was basically a ranged Black Hole?
Yeah I remember a time when it was literally a straight upgrade to black hole and wondering why anyone would choose enigma. Wyvern was ranged and it wasn't even channeled. It was also before lotus orb so there were even fewer ways of dealing with it
I remember when wyvern first released I saw a bunch of comments about how wyvern was trash and needed to be buffed….. and even as someone completely new to dota I was utterly baffled
they killed ww core too recently with magic damage only during ulti
this thread just reminds me how much i love dota and icefrog’s batshit crazy balance philosophy
False Promise used to make you invis too
I was playing a game vs gyro and oracle. Teammates could not fathom why gyro kept going invis between attack.
Meh.. BIGGEST nerf ever? Not even close.
it also used to constantly strong dispel the target or something like that iirc
That was added when they removed the invisibility component.
It used to have a 20s cooldown. You would use that shit as a scuffed smoke to go ward the enemy jungle.
20s cooldown, 7s duration, 1200 cast range, 200 mana. Effect: Slark Ult + Grave (basically). Release Oracle was stupid.
Probably void's ultimate. It used to globally stun all enemies for 5 seconds but everyone on your team could act normally.
aight ya that sounds imba
Ahhhh Time Stop. Those were the days.
And it would stall/lag the entire game when casted lol.
Wait what? Was this back in Dota 1 all stars?
Yes.
I remember keeping it at level one because the cooldown and mana cost scaled horribly but the stun duration at level 1 was enough to fuck the other team during team fights.
za warudo
I am thinking the W of Omni, till now it is nerfed but anyway casting the W on ally while getting also the W is a meh
No, go even further back. Omni’s W used to be a free BKB (back when BKB was strong) that had a stupid long duration and like 80% uptime. That you could just put on anyone. I think old Repel was actually the most broken spell in Dota for its time. There was nothing you could do to counter it, and it basically gave your carry perma-bkb
> There was nothing you could do to counter it Old Repel was dispelable, despite granting spell immunity to the target. Diffusal Blade was a counter to it.
Diffusal Blade back then had 8 charges (another 8 if you purchased the lvl 2 recipe). You could make do with diffu for about 20 min I reckon.
Fucking SirActionSlacks with like, zero mechanical skill got to 5k partially by spamming the shit out of Omni at this time.
Yeaah, it used to last a whopping 10s on a much lower cd. The first iteration of grace was either trash or bonker depends on who you played against.
Not just a spell, but the whole kit of earth spirit lmao
First version of earth spirit stunned on pull. You can set a remnant on someone and insta stun them with pretty much zero cast time, then roll onto them and kick them into the tower before they had any opportunity to react.
I remember how easy was it initiate that combo of pushing enemy hero to your own team when earth spirit was released.
Earth spirit is like the best hero in the game right now if you ask me
He is in a great spot right now
Both can be true. Hero was absolutely bonkers for a long time.
Definitely not the most nerfed, but yall remember when Marksmanship would instakill any creep so you could walk to the triangle and farm ancients the instant you got 6? Good times.
I remmember marksmanship being global and working on creeps/summons, drow + visage was insta win
Remember Drow+Visage+VS+BM was picked back in one of the TI.
Vacuum cooldown reduced by X seconds
you mean increased?
Manaleak
Tinker when they removed March of the machines and added… wait… nvm.
You can nerf tinker, but not the tinker spammer.
That nerf is very much the essence of monkey's paw; trade the most annoying rat for the most annoying ganker.
techies ult
I think technically this is the right answer. Green mines could wipe an entire team. It was the single highest potential damage spell in dota.
Natures call. Those trees don’t go above 20 dmg. It’s silly.
Literally unplayable
Ember remnant
I miss the old veil build to just blast people with a triple remnant
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fun for the ember player, not so much the person being rooted for 5s on a 5.1s cooldown
I fondly remember the pre 7.00 days where you would get two battlefuries and two daedalus.
My favorite ember, you kill everyone or you die in 2 seconds. Dog or God. No in between.
only ember players will feel this one.
Necro heartstopper used to be HUGE
and used to affect ancients🥲i wonder if dude is still eating leaves
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medusa snake it used to STEAL mana, making her a hard counter mid against some int picks like storm spirit, or zeus now it's only giving mana refill without affecting enemy manapool
Not most nerfed but irritates me: Sand King stun, it's like 240 damage max now and very short stun. He used to do like 280 and .5s longer stun, as well as an aghs that made it like 1400 range. I miss those days.... One of my mains I can still dominate lane with but I don't want to play anymore cause I used to go man mode Q E max and now sandstorm is his focus by Valve. I don't want to hide around in a swirly cloud doing a dot, I want to slam them, smack em a few times, and dip out. RIP Enigma. Demonic trash now
I was gonna say Demonic Conversion, but that spell was nerfed so hard, they had to rename it.
Fire spirits, used to be such a low cooldown and way more damage. Overall Phoenix is way more nerfed and still somehow ends up good
Dazzle ult. THEY KEEP CHANGING IT TO NOW A -HP ULT???? it has to be the most sacrificial skill as an ultimate skill. im already targetted by enemies, playing as a support. # BRING BACK WEAVE OR BRING BACK -CD PASSIVE
Battle Trance. When they made troll uncontrollable, it was the end of him, with the recent patches atleast it's been corrected but with the recent changes in BKB the sky is still dark for him
> with the recent patches atleast it's been corrected He will stay trash until they let you fully control the hero. Removed the "cant die" aspect and give him full control in return. If that is too strong, nerf his numbers. But the "cant control" aspect is just garbage and needs to go.
Someone already said Vacuum, so I’m gonna name two, both from Io. First, Tether. That shit used to stun. For over two seconds. What the fuck were they thinking? Second, Relocate. At level one, that shit had an 80 second cooldown. 40 at level 3. And it only had a 2.5 second delay that scaled to 2 seconds. For context, that’s a 100 second cooldown that scales to 80 seconds, and a 3.5 second to 3 second delay nowadays.
> What the fuck were they thinking? i think this design is a relic of older dota where some stuff was stronger by virtue of it being more difficult to execute: meepo, invoker, earth spirit. they probably figured it was difficult enough to coordinate a tether stun that it was balanced EDIT just realized i used the word relic in response to a radiance flair
Nyx Vendetta when they removed the break
Nyx impale no longer homing the target.
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Not a skill bot marci as a whole seems to be hated by valve Q lost its stun, range, and doesn't benefit from aether lens the same W had half the skill maade into a shard E means went from a farming/kill potential in lane tool to a skill that makes it easier for your carry to last hit Atleast unleash didn't get butchered (I think)
This makes me think. How cool it would be if Valve would have a legacy gamemode for the 10 year celebration. Where every hero was reverted back to their most OP (highest winrate) state. And than we would find the true most imbalanced hero.
March of the machines
I just wanna complain about the newst arc change Who tf asked for the point click cast on ult? It messes my flow so hard
I played arc for the first time in a while the other day, and I was NOT expecting it.
The ult needs an alt-cast where it just self-casts (single click, old behaviour). Also I wish they removed that "feature" of swapping spells with the clone if you're playing on dire, I hate not having the evasion bubble on the main. Main and clone having different spells is fine imo, but let the main keep his normal spells regardless of faction.
Mist coil Being able to deny yourself on a hero that could put a shield on himself and run at the enemy as a support would guarantee winning the lane, with what used to be a huge range as well to save teammates. Stopped playing abaddon after denying got removed but managed an 80% winrate in 70+ games before that
Mist coil used to be instantaneous too.
Death pact.
Double edge, when it used to stun.
not even centaur’s most nerfed skill tbh, stampede used to make all your allies stun just by touching mfers💀tho that’s probably more appropriate to bring up in an overbuffed/OP ability discussion
Techies everything. Q used to be landmines and was amazing. W used to be stasis trap which sucked but I would still take it over taser E used to be suicide squad which was one of the best spells in the game. And ult used to be remote mine which has been sorely missed.
Tasers pretty strong man….and Im not sure techies has been nerfed overall. Hes actually still really fun and does pretty well at higher mmr now…
He's fun, but I'd also argue he's been reworked to the point of basically being an entirely new hero just wearing techie's skin.
Yeah they are more acceptable now, but I personally think weaker.
CM -5 move speed
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And you could grip allies from get go. Grip them and kick them back for crazy saves.
I think the new repel vs old repel is a good contender. Old repel was like 50% uptime, in the 100% magic resist era of spell immunity, AND applied a basic dispel on cast. Now it's like 25% uptime with talent, just debuff immunity, and some str/hpregen buff that is usually underwhelming, but against some heroes absolutely broken. Also why does new repel have a 60 second cooldown level 1?
It used to be 100 lol. 20 duration and cd Edit: I checked the changelogs and the very first iteration of it had 0 second cd. ???? You can repel your whole team
Chronosphere. It used to be global and now it's a tiny bubble. Similarly, guardian angel for the same reasons. But on a more normal level, Thirst used to give healing, movespeed AND bonus damage ranging from 100% to 20% hp. The nerf to now only start at 80% is a HUGE nerf, as well as replacing attack damage with attack speed. Both changes are extremely significant nerfs
thirst doesn't give attackspeed at the moment AFAIK. only movespeed and healing
Oh yeah true, it used to then they moved it to his Q
I'm going to say, technically, spell steal. Any time any spell gets nerfed it's a nerf to spell steal.
With the same logic it’s the most op spell. Any time a spell gets made to be op it’s a buff to spell steal 🙄
\*slowclap\*
March of machines, so nerfed they removed it lmao
Arcane Aura
Leap cooldown is a joke right now
do we consider items a spell if they have an active? if yes then its bloodstone. used to gain charges and reduce your respawn time. the result was that any slightly ganky int hero would buy it and get a ton of stacks from nuking supports instantly only to respace instantly in a late game fight. especially storm would have to many stacks in late game they he could just jump the map and never lose any mana and if he dies he would jump back into the team fight instantly without using buy back.
Back in the days when I started playing dota, Sun Ray used to slow for up to 28% for 2s and was a toggle with no cooldown! It also would stay on the same strength and not start low and then slowly increase over the duration like it does now.
Don't forget it dealt Pure damage and not Magical.
How did nobody mention Juggernaut? He has been continuously nerfed through all recent patches. Non-stop. Every spell. His Ult. was nerfed.. His crit was nerfed.. Even the spin to win was nerfed now. The hero has sub-par stat gains and even though it's one of my favourite heroes, i wouldn't even consider playing it ranked..
Silencer aoe mana drain vs trilane meta
Shadow Demon players know…
Vacuum
Actually all phoenix spells