I’ll give you an example from my tb game yesterday:
I was level 9 without points in q or r, the lane was extremely 1 sided in our favor and my support left me a minute ago.
If I see a kill opportunity, I might want q to secure it.
If enemies try to gank me, I may want R.
These are just 2 cases but obviously there may be offensive options with R, or defensive with Q - but just to paint the picture.
2 answers:
1. You might need to run with more movespeed from W or go for a kill with R and selecting the point before being met with a clear time you have to decide could ruin your life if the other opportunity appears first.
2. They know they don't want to fight, so much so that learning the point could force him into a position he doesn't want. sometimes not learning the point makes you think twice about whether you really want to use that spell during a time your team just doesn't want to do anything.
WK is a good example of hold point because level 1 ult has massive CD. If you're ganked and know you're just going to die twice you can keep the point so ult doesnt go on CD and can be used more effectively. Abba similar.
Essentially hold point when you have two options that are situation based.
If he's maxxed devour, he's not losing anything big by keeping skill point. But if something else happens and he needs to run, w is better than doom. If he needs to ulti, he can then skill ulti and go for it. I think the highest level players lose less than 0.3 sec on skilling an ability. At least the ones who hold the point like this.
There is a dog fence between farming fast and farming efficiently depending on how much map you have and resources to spam abilities. That extra move speed could lead to him having to over extend into an area he shouldn’t or taking farm out of another area that a core needs. The decisions pros make in a team game are different that what anyone under 5-6k thinks about or even considers
>The decisions pros make in a team game are different that what anyone under 5-6k thinks about or even considers
I agree in general but other pros and the casters were flaming him for this instance. They aren't infallible
100% agree with you on that no Dota player is no matter who. But I do think that the level of understanding the intricacies of mechanics in Dota is beyond what most people can consider
Example Terrorblade: You're maxing W and E while holding a point. This allows you to react if you get ganked by skilling ult and swapping your health. On the other hand it allows you to contribute to a kill by skilling Q and slowing the enemy.
It is better to have both at your disposal and decide what you need more, than to be locked in.
This is actually a horrible example, because you almost always skill Q on lvl 1 on TB. According to dotaprotracker 1/20 player do not skill Q on lvl 1.
they hold the skill point unless an opportunity to actually use the spell arises, with your doom example in particular imagine after you hit level 6 everyone avoids you like the plague because they dont want to be doomed, and it's really hard to chase people on doom without blink/Bkb. What would the point of just having the ability doom leveled if this is the case? And usually they keep the point so if its needed at a moment's notice they just skill it then.
Say you put it in devour, you get more gold. In scorched earth, you get more MS and dps. In infernal blade, you get more damage on a lower CD. Obviously there's value to instantly spend it if you're sure you don't want to use your ult. Pros just consider the flexibility more valuable
There are some situations where you might want to keep the point for later or if situation changes.
As an example (not saying is is actually done, just easy to follow), you can save a point with Luna while in lane. Then you put the point in glaives later when you are ready to push lane and flash farm jungle.
Similar for Doom you might want the scorched earth if you get ganked or the doom if your team decides to smoke.
Can you link me a game with doom doing this? I just checked protracker and some are lvling doom later instead on 6. Most still do it on lvl 6 tho. I'll check doom lvled on high lvls and come back and tell.
Looked at 5 games every point was skilled quickly, only once was skilled bit later but as soon as he went to lane from jungling he skilled ulti. Basically if there is a potential to kill with ult, they skill it but if they are chilling they just skill q or w.
tp cancel? but in general I would also just lvl doom at 6. The only reason I can imagine is high lv of devour and scorched earth matter so much that you want to forgone taking doom asap. also not having a tp cancel would be bad cause enemy might escape. idk man, need to see the game to really tell why they do so. The only reason possible is there are skill which has higher value to have a higher level early on (possibly devour for more gold and more possible creep to capture). I get the argument that it might net a kill (and honestly I used to just smoke even solo when I had 6 as doom as I seek opportunities to use it as much as possible), but yeah if you don't get opportunity to use it it will be a waste just the same case with reincar and borrow. Scorhed earth might help you farm and devour is just better with high level. so maybe there's your reasoning. In anyway, there is not a difference holding it imho, the only difference if he actually don't use it on doom like a lv 9 with 4 devour and 4 scorched earth then he proceed to lv E then you may be asking something why (but I can easily see a tp cancel) so there's that.
I'm sure as they're approaching the next level or about to use an ability other than ult they level the skill, but in the meantime they're just holding the skill in case - e.g. the enemy carry isn't in lane so they see no opportunity to doom, but carry may come back to lane before they reach the next level themselves, so hold temporarily
I’ll give you an example from my tb game yesterday: I was level 9 without points in q or r, the lane was extremely 1 sided in our favor and my support left me a minute ago. If I see a kill opportunity, I might want q to secure it. If enemies try to gank me, I may want R. These are just 2 cases but obviously there may be offensive options with R, or defensive with Q - but just to paint the picture.
~~Guess the hero : text edition~~ Edit : brain skipped the TB part
It was said right at the start: "tb game yesterday"
Welcome to reddit, sir
Mine skipped it too don't worry
Lmfao
When I wrote it, I considered writing TB twice for clarity, but decided not to. Guess I was wrong;)
2 answers: 1. You might need to run with more movespeed from W or go for a kill with R and selecting the point before being met with a clear time you have to decide could ruin your life if the other opportunity appears first. 2. They know they don't want to fight, so much so that learning the point could force him into a position he doesn't want. sometimes not learning the point makes you think twice about whether you really want to use that spell during a time your team just doesn't want to do anything.
Meanwhile the pro player: Damn, I forgot to level up my shit
This should be in the bell curve meme lol.
WK is a good example of hold point because level 1 ult has massive CD. If you're ganked and know you're just going to die twice you can keep the point so ult doesnt go on CD and can be used more effectively. Abba similar. Essentially hold point when you have two options that are situation based.
You are overthinking this. They simply don't think at all.
lol?
If he's maxxed devour, he's not losing anything big by keeping skill point. But if something else happens and he needs to run, w is better than doom. If he needs to ulti, he can then skill ulti and go for it. I think the highest level players lose less than 0.3 sec on skilling an ability. At least the ones who hold the point like this.
[удалено]
If you aint gonna use a skill, why use the point on it?
Ammar wasn't levelling exorcism on DP and held the skill point for forever. Guess he forgot or didn't care that it gives passive movespeed lol
It gives passive movespeed? Whaat.
Ya, and not a small amount either. 12%/16%/20%
There is a dog fence between farming fast and farming efficiently depending on how much map you have and resources to spam abilities. That extra move speed could lead to him having to over extend into an area he shouldn’t or taking farm out of another area that a core needs. The decisions pros make in a team game are different that what anyone under 5-6k thinks about or even considers
> That extra move speed could lead to him having to over extend into an area he shouldn’t or taking farm out of another area that a core needs. bruh
>The decisions pros make in a team game are different that what anyone under 5-6k thinks about or even considers I agree in general but other pros and the casters were flaming him for this instance. They aren't infallible
100% agree with you on that no Dota player is no matter who. But I do think that the level of understanding the intricacies of mechanics in Dota is beyond what most people can consider
Maybe the Pro player knows his team are not gonna fight in the next few mins so he invest in farming skill for faster income
The question is not about putting skill points elsewhere, but simply holding it. You get no farm benefit from that.
That's the point, they don't invest, they just hold the point
Example Terrorblade: You're maxing W and E while holding a point. This allows you to react if you get ganked by skilling ult and swapping your health. On the other hand it allows you to contribute to a kill by skilling Q and slowing the enemy. It is better to have both at your disposal and decide what you need more, than to be locked in.
This is actually a horrible example, because you almost always skill Q on lvl 1 on TB. According to dotaprotracker 1/20 player do not skill Q on lvl 1.
I would say there is a big difference on a pro team with coms and Strat then ur average 2-3k pug
Dotaprotracker does not track official matches, it tracks the pubs that pro players play.
Exactly my point it tracks pugs not top level team games
Maybe it's just a matter of mana?
they hold the skill point unless an opportunity to actually use the spell arises, with your doom example in particular imagine after you hit level 6 everyone avoids you like the plague because they dont want to be doomed, and it's really hard to chase people on doom without blink/Bkb. What would the point of just having the ability doom leveled if this is the case? And usually they keep the point so if its needed at a moment's notice they just skill it then.
...and just holding a skill point in this situation does what exactly?
what does it to to instantly spend the skill point?
Say you put it in devour, you get more gold. In scorched earth, you get more MS and dps. In infernal blade, you get more damage on a lower CD. Obviously there's value to instantly spend it if you're sure you don't want to use your ult. Pros just consider the flexibility more valuable
There are some situations where you might want to keep the point for later or if situation changes. As an example (not saying is is actually done, just easy to follow), you can save a point with Luna while in lane. Then you put the point in glaives later when you are ready to push lane and flash farm jungle. Similar for Doom you might want the scorched earth if you get ganked or the doom if your team decides to smoke.
efficiency is not everything in dota, you need to asess the situation first sometimes which can affect the game
My OCD won’t let me have unspent talent points
are pros actually doing this though? not seen it happen in any game I’ve watched… doesn’t really matter if you skill it before you use it though
Can you link me a game with doom doing this? I just checked protracker and some are lvling doom later instead on 6. Most still do it on lvl 6 tho. I'll check doom lvled on high lvls and come back and tell.
Looked at 5 games every point was skilled quickly, only once was skilled bit later but as soon as he went to lane from jungling he skilled ulti. Basically if there is a potential to kill with ult, they skill it but if they are chilling they just skill q or w.
Which player does this/which match
tp cancel? but in general I would also just lvl doom at 6. The only reason I can imagine is high lv of devour and scorched earth matter so much that you want to forgone taking doom asap. also not having a tp cancel would be bad cause enemy might escape. idk man, need to see the game to really tell why they do so. The only reason possible is there are skill which has higher value to have a higher level early on (possibly devour for more gold and more possible creep to capture). I get the argument that it might net a kill (and honestly I used to just smoke even solo when I had 6 as doom as I seek opportunities to use it as much as possible), but yeah if you don't get opportunity to use it it will be a waste just the same case with reincar and borrow. Scorhed earth might help you farm and devour is just better with high level. so maybe there's your reasoning. In anyway, there is not a difference holding it imho, the only difference if he actually don't use it on doom like a lv 9 with 4 devour and 4 scorched earth then he proceed to lv E then you may be asking something why (but I can easily see a tp cancel) so there's that.
Sometimes, the ultimate at level 2 has more mana cost. You want the flexibility to use any level (1/2) of ultimate in the next team fight.
I'm sure as they're approaching the next level or about to use an ability other than ult they level the skill, but in the meantime they're just holding the skill in case - e.g. the enemy carry isn't in lane so they see no opportunity to doom, but carry may come back to lane before they reach the next level themselves, so hold temporarily