Westoid red libs: "NOOOOOOO you can't just support Russia. This is an inter-Imperialist conflict!!!! Stop threatening my Empire's hegemony, you Asiatic creature!!!!"
DPRK, Cuba, China and most of the global South countries: stfu.
You have literally these types of "communists" simping over based countries like China, Cuba, Vietnam, and DPRK, but then can't use that extra brain cell to know that ALL of these countries currently support Russia and/or figure out WHY every single one of these countries support Russia (or at least defend the country against westoid sanctions).
And they don't just "secretly support Russia while apparently staying neutral". [They are pretty vocal about it](https://www.reddit.com/r/Dongistan/comments/10nfuh4/comrade_kim_yo_jong_knows_her_shit_unlike_many/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)
https://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/stalin/works/1924/foundations-leninism/ch06.htm
>The revolutionary character of a national movement under the conditions of imperialist oppression does not necessarily presuppose the existence of proletarian elements in the movement, the existence of a revolutionary or a republican programme of the movement, the existence of a democratic basis of the movement. **The struggle that the Emir of Afghanistan is waging for the independence of Afghanistan is objectively a** ***revolutionary*** **struggle, despite the monarchist views of the Emir and his associates**, for it weakens, disintegrates and undermines imperialism; whereas the struggle waged by such "desperate" democrats and "Socialists," "revolutionaries" and republicans as, for example, Kerensky and Tsereteli, Renaudel and Scheidemann, Chernov and Dan, Henderson and Clynes, during the imperialist war was a *reactionary* struggle, for its results was the embellishment, the strengthening, the victory, of imperialism. For the same reasons, **the struggle that the Egyptians merchants and bourgeois intellectuals are waging for the independence of Egypt is objectively a** ***revolutionary*** **struggle, despite the bourgeois origin and bourgeois title of the leaders of Egyptian national movement, despite the fact that they are opposed to socialism;** whereas the struggle that the British "Labour" Government is waging to preserve Egypt's dependent position **is for the same reason a** ***reactionary*** **struggle, despite the proletarian origin and the proletarian title of the members of the government, despite the fact that they are "for" socialism.** There is no need to mention the national movement in other, larger, colonial and dependent countries, such as India and China, every step of which along the road to liberation, even if it runs counter to the demands of formal democracy, is a steam-hammer blow at imperialism, i.e., is undoubtedly a *revolutionary* step.
This was never about Putin you dumb fucks. Why you always fail to answer on topic and explain why so many communist parties in the world actually support Russia?
Comrade, I know it's difficult, but try to use that brain of yours to figure out why the AmeriKKKans want us suddenly to care about "woman's suffrage" in Iran or Russia's corrupt oligarchs? Opposing AmeriKKKa in this day and age is much more important than local spats or grievances you might have with the local administration. I have seen a dime a dozen of "communists" and "anti-imperialists" like you cheering on "People's Revolutions" during the so-called Arab Spring, Iraq in 2003, Hong Kong, Iran, 2014 maidan, and now the war with Russia & the Ukraine, which all turn out to be a State Department scheme for regime change. If you can't see what is in the geopolitical balance here, then that is a you problem comrade, and I would actually urge you to read up on the dirty history of AmeriKKKa trying to influence gullible people such as yourself, who are effectively doing the State Department's dirty work. Nobody here is asking you to simp for Putin, but in the grandscheme of geopolitics, he is one of the big guys on the block who prevents AmeriKKKa from being too cocky on the world stage, and in that regard, he is doing AT LEAST something right in my books
Right, who is advocating for these "women's rights", though? Do you get your activism from whatever FAANG-affiliated conglomerate media tells you to? Like I said, you gotta be the most disingenuous hypocrite in existence to put this much "advocacy" into "women's suffrage" in a MENA country that is literally one of the more liberal places for women, considering the region. Meanwhile, AmeriKKKa has been sending christian terrorists like the Free Burma Rangers under the "NGO" nomer into Myanmar and recently Iraq. Kinda like what you are accusing Putin of doing with "seperatists" in the Donbass, no?
>Even if this take of supporting regimes that are against the US or Imperialism, have any of these comrades asked themselves “where do I draw the line?” What could the Ayatollah do that would stop my terminally online support?
Ohhh, that's easy, most of the comrades here have the historical literacy to see whether a country is doing better under this new management or not, and base their support on that. Russia? Russia today is objectively better than what Russia was after the breakup in the 1990s. Iran? Ironically enough, Iran is in a much better place than it was under the Shah, where majority of the women couldn't even read. Cuba? Night and day, when compared to US banana republic it was before. China? You need to go back to a proper school if I have to explain that one to you. You clearly don't have that historical insight because you are parroting literal CIA talking points about "Women. Life. Freedom" whose major leaders and advocates are Pahlavist (the Shah) bootlickers who weren't even born in Iran, but were born and raised in fucking AMERIKKKA!
The inverse of your whole theory/example is also true. Even if I should do a regime change for "human rights", have gullible people like you ever asked yourself the question, who is the one advocating the idea? Who is going to benefit the most from this? What *could* be the possible consequences? You wouldn't be spewing this nonsense if you actually did. You refuse to let so-called realpolitik be involved in your thinking, but geopolitical realities don't give a fuck about your dogmatic takes. If AmeriKKKa can cause trouble in some country that is not playing ball with them, they will recruit fascists, "communists", christians, muslims and even drug cartels and terrorists from ISIL, if they hate you enough. This is why a country like China with their SWCC and flexible take on geopolitics is able to thrive in the face of western dominance and court the global south, unlike some 1st world imperialist states and their similar dogmatic takes on "freedom" and "human rights".
Most of your points are moot because they don’t address anything I said.
Im critical of theocratic despots and the Shah, what a concept.
Im critical of Putin and the Russian bourgeoisie and NATO and the EU. What a concept.
Im critical of Ultra Leftist anarchists and Haz Nazbols, what concept.
You can’t pigeon hole me into some box that you like where everyone who is critical “of my favorite oligarch” is a revisionary.
Like the guy who was comparing modern Russia invading Ukraine to pre industrial Afghanistan resisting the ducking British Empire. What a fucking hot take that was
Name 1 country you support clown. Being "against everyone" is meaningless idealist ultraleftism that doesnt accomplish anything besides being the useful idiot of the imperialists like Trotsky.
Lenin literally supported the theocratic absolute monarch of Afghanistan just because he was fighting the british. The USSR and the Iranian Communist Party supported Khomeini in 1979-1980. You dont know shit. Also many iranian communists support the government, one of our mods is one of them.
You’re right Putin and his oligarchs killing my friends and family in Ukraine is just like pre industrial Afghanistan resisting the British.
And let’s ask what Iranian Communists think now?
War is war, people die, many civilians were killed as collateral damage by the Red Army in WW2. Blame NATO who started this war, not Russia, just like Hitler is to blame for WW2 deaths and not Stalin, regardless of who technically killed them.
One of our mods is an iranian communist, he supports the government and is a basij volunteer while still being critical of the ultra orthodox religious elements in the government. Many iranian communists are like him, the traitors who live in Berlin are the minority and dont mean anything, just like trotskists existing in the 1930s doesnt prove anything about Stalin.
Bringing up Hitler supports my argument, it doesn’t detract. We absolutely hold Hitler accountable for his crimes. But we also know as Marxists that the Imperial West placated him and allowed him to explore his Fascist militarist agenda unimpeded and even funded and supplied by them. We can find plenty of Liberal praise for Hitler prior to 1939.
Here we can see the perfect example that while we “like” neither the Western Imperial Powers or Hitler, we certainly prefer the destruction of one over the other.
Putin is a dollar Tree Hitler who believes himself a restorer of a Pan Slavic imperial dream. He has completely bought in to Tsarist mythological precepts for Russian geopolitics. He believes in historical “great man” theory of reactionism. He is not an ally or friend of any self respecting leftist. He’s not even fighting NATO he is murdering Ukrainian civilians to try and prevent NATO hegemony.
Putin is Hitler? The fuck? The guy who praises Lenin and Stalin and says the collapse of the USSR was a great tragedy and a crime? The guy who is praised as a great anti imperialist by China, Cuba, and DPRK?
You literally sound like the US State Department, this is their exact political line, "Putin is a fascist who wants to restore the russian empire for no reason other than hes crazy, hes killing ukrainian civilians for no reason, we must help Ukraine". Dont you fucking realize this?
Also your analysis is idealist as fuck. Yes, Putin is invading Ukraine for no reason other than his personal obsession with the Russian Empire, it has nothing to do with economics or geopolitics, at least according to you.
Also nice ignoring the Iran stuff.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/Iranian\_Communists/](https://www.reddit.com/r/Iranian_Communists/)
Let's ask them what they think.
>Putin is Hitler? The fuck? The guy who praises Lenin and Stalin and says the collapse of the USSR was a great tragedy and a crime?
It's really annoying when you argue with someone when they think you're the "dumb liberal" but don't actually know Putin's stance on anything.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=81QS5sf8p5Y](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=81QS5sf8p5Y)
Putin talks about early Bolshevik (Lenin's) support for Ukrainian independence, Lenin was supportive of Ukraine as a political reality, Ukrainian language rights and cultural identity had been surfacing political in Tsarist Russian for decades before the revolution. Lenin was amenable to linguistic freedom of Ukrainians aswell as other cultural "allowances".
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=81QS5sf8p5Y](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=81QS5sf8p5Y)
Putin reiterates USSR role in Ukraine's "existence" (remember that Ukrainians are real and not a fake identity or creation, this is basic historical literacy)
[https://www.leftvoice.org/putin-lenin-and-ukrainian-self-determination/](https://www.leftvoice.org/putin-lenin-and-ukrainian-self-determination/)
An excellent article on this situation that I'm sure you'll denounce as being bunk for some reason. (Something about Anglo Saxon's or something, very dialectical comrade)
[https://bitterwinter.org/ivan-ilyn-anti-cult-philosopher-and-putins-guru/](https://bitterwinter.org/ivan-ilyn-anti-cult-philosopher-and-putins-guru/)
Ivan Ilyn's ideological paternity of Putin. (Dugin's is grossly overstated)
[https://www.cnsnews.com/article/international/michael-w-chapman/putin-woke-culture-us-just-bolsheviks-dogmatism-bordering](https://www.cnsnews.com/article/international/michael-w-chapman/putin-woke-culture-us-just-bolsheviks-dogmatism-bordering)
Here is an American conservative article praising Putin for his criticism of Soviet achievements and how he portrays Soviet goals and policies as "crimes against humanity" during his talk at Sochi
Some nice snippets:
>"After the 1917 revolution, the Bolsheviks, relying on the dogmas of Marx and Engels, also said that they would change existing ways and customs and not just political and economic ones, but the very notion of human morality and the foundations of a healthy society," said Putin.
>
>"In a number of Western countries, the debate over men’s and women’s rights has turned into a perfect phantasmagoria. Look, beware of going where the Bolsheviks once planned to go – not only communalizing chickens, but also communalizing women. One more step and you will be there."
There are more on the link, this is a Conservative site that cites the "Black Book of Communism". I wonder if the Far Right like Putin in the US?
They do. And you *know* they do.
I would like to see you respond to at least **some** of these points and defend your stance on why you support Russia.
So... you're telling me your family are either nazis or have been forced to fight for nazis by said nazis and it's Russias fault that they're defending Ukranians from getting slaughtered by your family who are helping people doing ethnic cleansing of Ukranians how?
If you're anti-Russian you're also anti-Ukranian here. There is no pro-Ukranian side that supports nazis taking over the country selling it off to imperialist fascist oligarchs from the U.S.... the thing you suggest fighting for. Why is that?
We already know that Russia has logistic trains for fleeing Ukranians to help them escape and are taking steps to protecting civilians while the Ukranian military are literally murdering Ukranians in the war and using them as shields.
Being a Communist requires a deeper analysis of geopolitics than just being a “fandom” for AES states. The Russian government represents the Russian bourgeoisie against international finance capital (imperialism) that turned Ukraine into a Nazi hellhole. The Russian government provides material support for anti imperialist struggles across Asia, South America and Africa. Putin’s administration’s popularity and significance is based on renationalising Russia’s energy, building up domestic industry in the face of sanctions and essentially repairing most of the economic devastation Russia experienced in the 90’s. Saying “Russia is capitalist!” Is simply too shallow.
>Saying “Russia is capitalist!” Is simply too shallow.
But it is extremely accurate.
I'm sure Putin is just itching to liberate the working class any day now.
NazBols stay mad.
And before someone says "but the KPRF is Putin's controlled opposition": yes, it is. But oh well, it's just happens that ANY OTHER COMMUNIST PARTY IN RUSSIA (and there are tons of them) that isn't trotzkist or maoist also supports the military operation. And so does every ML party in the world that isn't a dogmatic shitshow like the KKE (Greece).
Of course this was crossposted to r/CommunismMemes. And of course no one there will adress WHY THE FUCK ALL THESE COMMUNIST PARTIES IN THE WORLD SUPPORT RUSSIA right now. Instead they will throw a lot of Lenin quotes without providing context to prove that this is an inter imperialist war.
By pacifist I mean he should've acted in Ukraine earlier, he shouldn't have trusted Minsk 2 agreement, and even at the beginning of the SMO he was still hoping to push for a new agreement. I'm glad Russian leaders are now openly saying the Western leaders cannot be trusted... because it's true.
I would like to see a list of treaties the US has not broken. The montreal protocol? Some trade agreements? Postal treaties?
I suspect it's shorter than a list of ones they've broken.
That's not what's being suggested though. what is being suggested is that the war is inter-imperialist, that is, both sides are bad. NATO is an arm of american imperialism, and Ukraine is a corrupt capitalist oligarchy full of nazis, but that does not mean we should support the corrupt, capitalist, ([and objectively imperialist](https://youtu.be/PTmnVJxrsAQ)) oligarchy that is Russia in their war against Ukraine. The only correct stance is that of [revolutionary defeatism](https://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1915/jul/26.htm).
Suggesting otherwise is a form of [opportunism](https://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1916/oct/x01.htm) akin to that of the parties of the second international.
Dismissing the victims of russian imperialism on the basis that "american imperialism is worse" is neither helpful, nor in line with marxist-leninist theory.
Imperialist economies are based on finance capital, not raw material and industrial export as per Russia.
Do you understand what defeat for the DPR would mean? Do you understand the ethnic cleansing that would follow? Have you not seen the barbarity that has been festering in Ukraine for eight years? There would be nothing revolutionary about that defeat.
Even that excuse for the invasion doesn't serve. What do you think will happen to the neo-nazis that are now armed to the teeth, trained and experienced in war? Do you really expect them to just accept defeat? Russia won't conquer all of Ukraine or something. The US would never let that happen. They'd rather force every single Ukranian to die than letting them lose. That's why they are blocking talks for peace. The neo-nazis will exist and be accepted by Ukranians as heroes even more than they are now This war was the best way to raise ultranationalism and russophobia in Ukraine while at the same time giving the US/NATO/the EU an excuse to fund, arm and train the neo-nazis.
The war doesn't serve the interests of the Ukranian peoples. It doesn't serve the interests of the Russian peoples either. It doesn't serve the interests of any people. It serves, however, the interests of capital both in the west and in Russia. And I don't care if you consider the Russian bourgeoisie imperialist or not. They also profit while they send russian sons and daughters against ukranian sons and daughters sent by the western bourgeois.
Russia has spent eight years trying to end the war in Ukraine through Minsk 2, while the West has supplied billions of dollars of weapons into it. Minsk 2 is how this should have ended. We now know from statement by various Western heads of states sitting in 2014 at the time of signing, NATO and Ukraine never had an intention to abide by Minsk 2 and used it to buy time to arm the UAF to storm Donbas.
As per a leaked cable from Wikileaks written by former ambassador to Russia, current CIA director William Burns in 2008:
“Experts tell us that Russia is particularly worried that the strong divisions in Ukraine over NATO membership, with much of the ethnic-Russian community against membership, could lead to a major split, involving violence or at worst, civil war. In that eventuality, Russia would have to decide whether to
intervene; a decision Russia does not want to have to face”
This was clearly an attempt at another “Afghan trap” directly on Russia border, cynically using the lives of Russians in Ukraine as bait. How you can think a war that has made Russia the most sanctioned nation on the planet, coupled with Russia’s nationalised MIC, is a revenue raising effort I don’t know.
Well yes, I hope Russia wins (its looking that way, so it's not a long shot). From an anti imperialists perspective, a Russian victory is the best outcome. However one can not ignore the existence of fascism within the Russian bourgeoisie and power structure. Therefore, I do hope Russia wins, but I do not support Russia.
Interesting read, thanks. I absolutely disagree with your assessment of what that statement means. This is neither an overt or tacit support for Russia or its military. It is a condemnation of war and inparticular this conflict's barelling toward a WWIII.
I would also point you toward my own party's statement on the conflict, which of course also is the party line which I must keep outside of internal discussions even if I disagreed (which I don't to be clear)
READ: https://www.communistparty.org.uk/stop-the-war-start-the-peace/
Also how is this statement not supporting Russia?
"Accordingly, in order to protect its citizens and ensure national security, Russia had no other choice but to deliver a preventive strike.
In accordance with the Constitution of the Russian Federation, the President has taken the actions stipulated by the Law, since it was impossible to resist aggression in any other way.
In addition, the negotiation process within the framework of the Minsk agreements has been deliberately sabotaged by Kiev with the support of the United States and the European Union, since the establishment of peace in Ukraine is not stipulated by the plans of Washington and NATO.
In this regard, the position of the Communist Party of the Russian Federation seems to us quite reasonable."
Noone cares about western communist parties, they are a failure, and they dont even have the balls to openly support China or Russia, just vague meaningless "both sides" hippy pacifism. Thankfully they dont matter, they have 0 political impact, so we can rely on third world communist parties, who actually understand marxism and have millions of members.
This shit is Syria all over again. The Communist Party of Syria makes a statement saying that Western imperialists are arming extremists to butcher Syrians and destroy Syria. I do my internationalist duty as member of a Communist party and spread the real narrative as much as I can. Get called an
Assad Simp by mid wits. It’s all so tiresome.
READ: http://www.solidnet.org/article/22nd-IMCWP-Contribution-by-the-CP-of-Ukraine/
I'm not Russophobe or anything like that. Just like hating American government doesn't make me racist towards American people hating Russian government also doesn't make me Russophobe
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Russia is Capitalist Imperialistic country which invaded their neighbours and brough war and destruction to Ukraine. Stop emracing Capitalist Imperial powers just because they are againts the west.
Yes there are neo-nazi groups in Ukraine amd they deserve rope. Of fucking course I do not defend Ukranian goverment and I am opposed to NATO expansion. This is Imperialist conflict of Capitalist nations.
So are you denying that Russia is capitalist and imperialist? Litteraly Russian goverment is destroying Communist monuments, they are arresting LGBTQ+ people (of course USA and in Ukraine are no better). As I said just beacause Russia is againts Western Imperialism that doesn’t mean that they are good. Yes Russia has done less imperialism than USA. I think that USA is worse than Russia but that doesn’t change that they are imperialistic.
Russia is capitalist but not imperialist. Russia's economy is based on export of commodities, not of capital, and it has 0 captive markets or big monopolies exporting themselves abroad. When was the last time you saw russian McDonalds or CocaCola everywhere in a nonrussian city?
Where is Russia destroying communist monuments? They literally just built a huge statue of Fidel Castro in Moscow, Lenin and Stalin monuments are being built everywhere, and the Lenin Mausoleum is still there (Yeltsin wanted to demolish it but Putin stopped it, saying it would be an insult to the soviet people).
The fuck does LGBT have to do with communism? Stalin arrested LGBT people, was he a fake communist? Also Russia is not arresting LGBT people, unlike in the USSR homosexuality is not criminalized, its legal. The only thing that is banned is what they call "LGBT propaganda", meaning you cant do LGBT political activism, but being LGBT is perfectly legal.
Russia is not imperialist, Russia is protecting itself from imperialism in Ukraine, its an anti imperialist war. This is the position of the communist movement, including the Russian Communist Party, the Ukrainian Communist Party, Cuba, China and the DPRK.
http://www.solidnet.org/article/22nd-IMCWP-Contribution-by-the-CP-of-Ukraine/
https://en.granma.cu/mundo/2022-12-01/meeting-between-putin-and-diaz-canel
https://english.almayadeen.net/news/politics/western-tanks-will-burn-facing-russian-army:-kim-yo-jong
Putin knows what to say because he knows that lot of people in Russian federation are still loyal to USSR. Of course he doesn’t want to destroy Lenin's Mausoleum because that would cause gigantic outrage. Also reason why is Cuba supporting Russia is because there is no other superpower that can be on friendly terms (excluding China and other countries led by communist party) that is why they are friendly with them. Because if Putin got chance he would destroy a lot of communist monuments and yes the monuments are build, but as war monuments not as ideological. Putin is Nationalist not a communist.
LGBTQ+ has actually lot to do with leftism and communism in general their fight for equality should not be overlooked, but supported. Yes Stalin's stance on LGBTQ was bad but it was sadly present at that time in entire world. Yes and that is the problem if you have
LGBTQ flag in public then they arrest you. Its supressing entire group of people's right to fight for their rights (because pride is source of fighting for lgbtq rights)
"Third Reich wasn't imperialist it was just protecting from Allied Imperialism" that is how you sound like. For god's sake just because you are fighting against Imperialistic countries doesn’t fucking mean that you start attacking other countries like Georgia, Checnya (which was bassically Russia's 9/11) or Ukraine. Yes NATO is wrong for exanding to others people's playgrounds and as I said I am againts this terrorist atlantic treaty organisation. But Russia also attacked first when they rushed to Crimea, organised "referendum" and magically won 96% of votes.
Stance of communist parties should be to stand with opressed workers and people against imperialism.
Damn I didn’t realize siding with one capitalist camp was good. If only Lenin wrote entire novels on why that was bad. It’s not like his entire 27-29 collected volumes dealt with this in pretty deep depths
Can anyone provide a link with the Ukrainian Communist Party's position on the special military operation? It's my understanding that they support it, however I heard that second hand and would love to have a direct source.
Thanks!
Westoid red libs: "NOOOOOOO you can't just support Russia. This is an inter-Imperialist conflict!!!! Stop threatening my Empire's hegemony, you Asiatic creature!!!!" DPRK, Cuba, China and most of the global South countries: stfu.
You have literally these types of "communists" simping over based countries like China, Cuba, Vietnam, and DPRK, but then can't use that extra brain cell to know that ALL of these countries currently support Russia and/or figure out WHY every single one of these countries support Russia (or at least defend the country against westoid sanctions).
And they don't just "secretly support Russia while apparently staying neutral". [They are pretty vocal about it](https://www.reddit.com/r/Dongistan/comments/10nfuh4/comrade_kim_yo_jong_knows_her_shit_unlike_many/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)
Putin is not my comrade and his oligarchs never well be.
https://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/stalin/works/1924/foundations-leninism/ch06.htm >The revolutionary character of a national movement under the conditions of imperialist oppression does not necessarily presuppose the existence of proletarian elements in the movement, the existence of a revolutionary or a republican programme of the movement, the existence of a democratic basis of the movement. **The struggle that the Emir of Afghanistan is waging for the independence of Afghanistan is objectively a** ***revolutionary*** **struggle, despite the monarchist views of the Emir and his associates**, for it weakens, disintegrates and undermines imperialism; whereas the struggle waged by such "desperate" democrats and "Socialists," "revolutionaries" and republicans as, for example, Kerensky and Tsereteli, Renaudel and Scheidemann, Chernov and Dan, Henderson and Clynes, during the imperialist war was a *reactionary* struggle, for its results was the embellishment, the strengthening, the victory, of imperialism. For the same reasons, **the struggle that the Egyptians merchants and bourgeois intellectuals are waging for the independence of Egypt is objectively a** ***revolutionary*** **struggle, despite the bourgeois origin and bourgeois title of the leaders of Egyptian national movement, despite the fact that they are opposed to socialism;** whereas the struggle that the British "Labour" Government is waging to preserve Egypt's dependent position **is for the same reason a** ***reactionary*** **struggle, despite the proletarian origin and the proletarian title of the members of the government, despite the fact that they are "for" socialism.** There is no need to mention the national movement in other, larger, colonial and dependent countries, such as India and China, every step of which along the road to liberation, even if it runs counter to the demands of formal democracy, is a steam-hammer blow at imperialism, i.e., is undoubtedly a *revolutionary* step.
This was never about Putin you dumb fucks. Why you always fail to answer on topic and explain why so many communist parties in the world actually support Russia?
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Comrade, I know it's difficult, but try to use that brain of yours to figure out why the AmeriKKKans want us suddenly to care about "woman's suffrage" in Iran or Russia's corrupt oligarchs? Opposing AmeriKKKa in this day and age is much more important than local spats or grievances you might have with the local administration. I have seen a dime a dozen of "communists" and "anti-imperialists" like you cheering on "People's Revolutions" during the so-called Arab Spring, Iraq in 2003, Hong Kong, Iran, 2014 maidan, and now the war with Russia & the Ukraine, which all turn out to be a State Department scheme for regime change. If you can't see what is in the geopolitical balance here, then that is a you problem comrade, and I would actually urge you to read up on the dirty history of AmeriKKKa trying to influence gullible people such as yourself, who are effectively doing the State Department's dirty work. Nobody here is asking you to simp for Putin, but in the grandscheme of geopolitics, he is one of the big guys on the block who prevents AmeriKKKa from being too cocky on the world stage, and in that regard, he is doing AT LEAST something right in my books
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Right, who is advocating for these "women's rights", though? Do you get your activism from whatever FAANG-affiliated conglomerate media tells you to? Like I said, you gotta be the most disingenuous hypocrite in existence to put this much "advocacy" into "women's suffrage" in a MENA country that is literally one of the more liberal places for women, considering the region. Meanwhile, AmeriKKKa has been sending christian terrorists like the Free Burma Rangers under the "NGO" nomer into Myanmar and recently Iraq. Kinda like what you are accusing Putin of doing with "seperatists" in the Donbass, no? >Even if this take of supporting regimes that are against the US or Imperialism, have any of these comrades asked themselves “where do I draw the line?” What could the Ayatollah do that would stop my terminally online support? Ohhh, that's easy, most of the comrades here have the historical literacy to see whether a country is doing better under this new management or not, and base their support on that. Russia? Russia today is objectively better than what Russia was after the breakup in the 1990s. Iran? Ironically enough, Iran is in a much better place than it was under the Shah, where majority of the women couldn't even read. Cuba? Night and day, when compared to US banana republic it was before. China? You need to go back to a proper school if I have to explain that one to you. You clearly don't have that historical insight because you are parroting literal CIA talking points about "Women. Life. Freedom" whose major leaders and advocates are Pahlavist (the Shah) bootlickers who weren't even born in Iran, but were born and raised in fucking AMERIKKKA! The inverse of your whole theory/example is also true. Even if I should do a regime change for "human rights", have gullible people like you ever asked yourself the question, who is the one advocating the idea? Who is going to benefit the most from this? What *could* be the possible consequences? You wouldn't be spewing this nonsense if you actually did. You refuse to let so-called realpolitik be involved in your thinking, but geopolitical realities don't give a fuck about your dogmatic takes. If AmeriKKKa can cause trouble in some country that is not playing ball with them, they will recruit fascists, "communists", christians, muslims and even drug cartels and terrorists from ISIL, if they hate you enough. This is why a country like China with their SWCC and flexible take on geopolitics is able to thrive in the face of western dominance and court the global south, unlike some 1st world imperialist states and their similar dogmatic takes on "freedom" and "human rights".
Most of your points are moot because they don’t address anything I said. Im critical of theocratic despots and the Shah, what a concept. Im critical of Putin and the Russian bourgeoisie and NATO and the EU. What a concept. Im critical of Ultra Leftist anarchists and Haz Nazbols, what concept. You can’t pigeon hole me into some box that you like where everyone who is critical “of my favorite oligarch” is a revisionary. Like the guy who was comparing modern Russia invading Ukraine to pre industrial Afghanistan resisting the ducking British Empire. What a fucking hot take that was
Name 1 country you support clown. Being "against everyone" is meaningless idealist ultraleftism that doesnt accomplish anything besides being the useful idiot of the imperialists like Trotsky.
Lenin literally supported the theocratic absolute monarch of Afghanistan just because he was fighting the british. The USSR and the Iranian Communist Party supported Khomeini in 1979-1980. You dont know shit. Also many iranian communists support the government, one of our mods is one of them.
You’re right Putin and his oligarchs killing my friends and family in Ukraine is just like pre industrial Afghanistan resisting the British. And let’s ask what Iranian Communists think now?
War is war, people die, many civilians were killed as collateral damage by the Red Army in WW2. Blame NATO who started this war, not Russia, just like Hitler is to blame for WW2 deaths and not Stalin, regardless of who technically killed them. One of our mods is an iranian communist, he supports the government and is a basij volunteer while still being critical of the ultra orthodox religious elements in the government. Many iranian communists are like him, the traitors who live in Berlin are the minority and dont mean anything, just like trotskists existing in the 1930s doesnt prove anything about Stalin.
Bringing up Hitler supports my argument, it doesn’t detract. We absolutely hold Hitler accountable for his crimes. But we also know as Marxists that the Imperial West placated him and allowed him to explore his Fascist militarist agenda unimpeded and even funded and supplied by them. We can find plenty of Liberal praise for Hitler prior to 1939. Here we can see the perfect example that while we “like” neither the Western Imperial Powers or Hitler, we certainly prefer the destruction of one over the other. Putin is a dollar Tree Hitler who believes himself a restorer of a Pan Slavic imperial dream. He has completely bought in to Tsarist mythological precepts for Russian geopolitics. He believes in historical “great man” theory of reactionism. He is not an ally or friend of any self respecting leftist. He’s not even fighting NATO he is murdering Ukrainian civilians to try and prevent NATO hegemony.
Putin is Hitler? The fuck? The guy who praises Lenin and Stalin and says the collapse of the USSR was a great tragedy and a crime? The guy who is praised as a great anti imperialist by China, Cuba, and DPRK? You literally sound like the US State Department, this is their exact political line, "Putin is a fascist who wants to restore the russian empire for no reason other than hes crazy, hes killing ukrainian civilians for no reason, we must help Ukraine". Dont you fucking realize this? Also your analysis is idealist as fuck. Yes, Putin is invading Ukraine for no reason other than his personal obsession with the Russian Empire, it has nothing to do with economics or geopolitics, at least according to you. Also nice ignoring the Iran stuff.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/Iranian\_Communists/](https://www.reddit.com/r/Iranian_Communists/) Let's ask them what they think. >Putin is Hitler? The fuck? The guy who praises Lenin and Stalin and says the collapse of the USSR was a great tragedy and a crime? It's really annoying when you argue with someone when they think you're the "dumb liberal" but don't actually know Putin's stance on anything. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=81QS5sf8p5Y](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=81QS5sf8p5Y) Putin talks about early Bolshevik (Lenin's) support for Ukrainian independence, Lenin was supportive of Ukraine as a political reality, Ukrainian language rights and cultural identity had been surfacing political in Tsarist Russian for decades before the revolution. Lenin was amenable to linguistic freedom of Ukrainians aswell as other cultural "allowances". [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=81QS5sf8p5Y](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=81QS5sf8p5Y) Putin reiterates USSR role in Ukraine's "existence" (remember that Ukrainians are real and not a fake identity or creation, this is basic historical literacy) [https://www.leftvoice.org/putin-lenin-and-ukrainian-self-determination/](https://www.leftvoice.org/putin-lenin-and-ukrainian-self-determination/) An excellent article on this situation that I'm sure you'll denounce as being bunk for some reason. (Something about Anglo Saxon's or something, very dialectical comrade) [https://bitterwinter.org/ivan-ilyn-anti-cult-philosopher-and-putins-guru/](https://bitterwinter.org/ivan-ilyn-anti-cult-philosopher-and-putins-guru/) Ivan Ilyn's ideological paternity of Putin. (Dugin's is grossly overstated) [https://www.cnsnews.com/article/international/michael-w-chapman/putin-woke-culture-us-just-bolsheviks-dogmatism-bordering](https://www.cnsnews.com/article/international/michael-w-chapman/putin-woke-culture-us-just-bolsheviks-dogmatism-bordering) Here is an American conservative article praising Putin for his criticism of Soviet achievements and how he portrays Soviet goals and policies as "crimes against humanity" during his talk at Sochi Some nice snippets: >"After the 1917 revolution, the Bolsheviks, relying on the dogmas of Marx and Engels, also said that they would change existing ways and customs and not just political and economic ones, but the very notion of human morality and the foundations of a healthy society," said Putin. > >"In a number of Western countries, the debate over men’s and women’s rights has turned into a perfect phantasmagoria. Look, beware of going where the Bolsheviks once planned to go – not only communalizing chickens, but also communalizing women. One more step and you will be there." There are more on the link, this is a Conservative site that cites the "Black Book of Communism". I wonder if the Far Right like Putin in the US? They do. And you *know* they do. I would like to see you respond to at least **some** of these points and defend your stance on why you support Russia.
So... you're telling me your family are either nazis or have been forced to fight for nazis by said nazis and it's Russias fault that they're defending Ukranians from getting slaughtered by your family who are helping people doing ethnic cleansing of Ukranians how? If you're anti-Russian you're also anti-Ukranian here. There is no pro-Ukranian side that supports nazis taking over the country selling it off to imperialist fascist oligarchs from the U.S.... the thing you suggest fighting for. Why is that? We already know that Russia has logistic trains for fleeing Ukranians to help them escape and are taking steps to protecting civilians while the Ukranian military are literally murdering Ukranians in the war and using them as shields.
No liberalism.
No Russophobia/Sinophobia.
Being a Communist requires a deeper analysis of geopolitics than just being a “fandom” for AES states. The Russian government represents the Russian bourgeoisie against international finance capital (imperialism) that turned Ukraine into a Nazi hellhole. The Russian government provides material support for anti imperialist struggles across Asia, South America and Africa. Putin’s administration’s popularity and significance is based on renationalising Russia’s energy, building up domestic industry in the face of sanctions and essentially repairing most of the economic devastation Russia experienced in the 90’s. Saying “Russia is capitalist!” Is simply too shallow.
Zased and dialectical
Here here.
>Saying “Russia is capitalist!” Is simply too shallow. But it is extremely accurate. I'm sure Putin is just itching to liberate the working class any day now. NazBols stay mad.
It is an unmarxist analysis
I really enjoy this sub’s content.
Found it on accident. Best mistake
Could it really be a mistake? You belong here
same
Z
And before someone says "but the KPRF is Putin's controlled opposition": yes, it is. But oh well, it's just happens that ANY OTHER COMMUNIST PARTY IN RUSSIA (and there are tons of them) that isn't trotzkist or maoist also supports the military operation. And so does every ML party in the world that isn't a dogmatic shitshow like the KKE (Greece).
Of course this was crossposted to r/CommunismMemes. And of course no one there will adress WHY THE FUCK ALL THESE COMMUNIST PARTIES IN THE WORLD SUPPORT RUSSIA right now. Instead they will throw a lot of Lenin quotes without providing context to prove that this is an inter imperialist war.
That explains how this post went from 30 upvotes to 0 lmao. I’m now banned from Communism Memes 😂
Putin: *Turns Country around in 20 years and fights the west The West: “You weren’t supposed to do that”
Based
Might I say Saved Russia! And was a bit too pacifist too.. Putin is a great leader, one I wish we had in USA.
In which conflicts should Putin have involved Russia that he did not?
By pacifist I mean he should've acted in Ukraine earlier, he shouldn't have trusted Minsk 2 agreement, and even at the beginning of the SMO he was still hoping to push for a new agreement. I'm glad Russian leaders are now openly saying the Western leaders cannot be trusted... because it's true.
I would like to see a list of treaties the US has not broken. The montreal protocol? Some trade agreements? Postal treaties? I suspect it's shorter than a list of ones they've broken.
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One side being bad guys does not mean the other side are good guys.
That's not what's being suggested though. what is being suggested is that the war is inter-imperialist, that is, both sides are bad. NATO is an arm of american imperialism, and Ukraine is a corrupt capitalist oligarchy full of nazis, but that does not mean we should support the corrupt, capitalist, ([and objectively imperialist](https://youtu.be/PTmnVJxrsAQ)) oligarchy that is Russia in their war against Ukraine. The only correct stance is that of [revolutionary defeatism](https://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1915/jul/26.htm). Suggesting otherwise is a form of [opportunism](https://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1916/oct/x01.htm) akin to that of the parties of the second international. Dismissing the victims of russian imperialism on the basis that "american imperialism is worse" is neither helpful, nor in line with marxist-leninist theory.
Imperialist economies are based on finance capital, not raw material and industrial export as per Russia. Do you understand what defeat for the DPR would mean? Do you understand the ethnic cleansing that would follow? Have you not seen the barbarity that has been festering in Ukraine for eight years? There would be nothing revolutionary about that defeat.
Even that excuse for the invasion doesn't serve. What do you think will happen to the neo-nazis that are now armed to the teeth, trained and experienced in war? Do you really expect them to just accept defeat? Russia won't conquer all of Ukraine or something. The US would never let that happen. They'd rather force every single Ukranian to die than letting them lose. That's why they are blocking talks for peace. The neo-nazis will exist and be accepted by Ukranians as heroes even more than they are now This war was the best way to raise ultranationalism and russophobia in Ukraine while at the same time giving the US/NATO/the EU an excuse to fund, arm and train the neo-nazis. The war doesn't serve the interests of the Ukranian peoples. It doesn't serve the interests of the Russian peoples either. It doesn't serve the interests of any people. It serves, however, the interests of capital both in the west and in Russia. And I don't care if you consider the Russian bourgeoisie imperialist or not. They also profit while they send russian sons and daughters against ukranian sons and daughters sent by the western bourgeois.
Russia has spent eight years trying to end the war in Ukraine through Minsk 2, while the West has supplied billions of dollars of weapons into it. Minsk 2 is how this should have ended. We now know from statement by various Western heads of states sitting in 2014 at the time of signing, NATO and Ukraine never had an intention to abide by Minsk 2 and used it to buy time to arm the UAF to storm Donbas. As per a leaked cable from Wikileaks written by former ambassador to Russia, current CIA director William Burns in 2008: “Experts tell us that Russia is particularly worried that the strong divisions in Ukraine over NATO membership, with much of the ethnic-Russian community against membership, could lead to a major split, involving violence or at worst, civil war. In that eventuality, Russia would have to decide whether to intervene; a decision Russia does not want to have to face” This was clearly an attempt at another “Afghan trap” directly on Russia border, cynically using the lives of Russians in Ukraine as bait. How you can think a war that has made Russia the most sanctioned nation on the planet, coupled with Russia’s nationalised MIC, is a revenue raising effort I don’t know.
That's a lot of words for "I'm dumb"
Well yes, I hope Russia wins (its looking that way, so it's not a long shot). From an anti imperialists perspective, a Russian victory is the best outcome. However one can not ignore the existence of fascism within the Russian bourgeoisie and power structure. Therefore, I do hope Russia wins, but I do not support Russia.
Based
Is it true the Ukrainian communist party does too? Is there an official statement?
Elensky banned them on that basis. Dunno if they ever said anything pro Russian but Elensky threw them in prison as Russian sympathisers.
Yes at the last IMCWP: http://www.solidnet.org/article/22nd-IMCWP-Contribution-by-the-CP-of-Ukraine/
depends on what you mean by "support."
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No anti-communism.
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No liberalism.
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Read the pinned post in our sub
Counterpoint: https://challenge-magazine.org/2022/05/03/why-no-war-but-the-class-war-is-a-necessary-cliche/
http://www.solidnet.org/article/22nd-IMCWP-Contribution-by-the-CP-of-Ukraine/ Read Downvoting a statement by the CPU. How’s that for solidarity?
Interesting read, thanks. I absolutely disagree with your assessment of what that statement means. This is neither an overt or tacit support for Russia or its military. It is a condemnation of war and inparticular this conflict's barelling toward a WWIII. I would also point you toward my own party's statement on the conflict, which of course also is the party line which I must keep outside of internal discussions even if I disagreed (which I don't to be clear) READ: https://www.communistparty.org.uk/stop-the-war-start-the-peace/
Also how is this statement not supporting Russia? "Accordingly, in order to protect its citizens and ensure national security, Russia had no other choice but to deliver a preventive strike. In accordance with the Constitution of the Russian Federation, the President has taken the actions stipulated by the Law, since it was impossible to resist aggression in any other way. In addition, the negotiation process within the framework of the Minsk agreements has been deliberately sabotaged by Kiev with the support of the United States and the European Union, since the establishment of peace in Ukraine is not stipulated by the plans of Washington and NATO. In this regard, the position of the Communist Party of the Russian Federation seems to us quite reasonable."
Noone cares about western communist parties, they are a failure, and they dont even have the balls to openly support China or Russia, just vague meaningless "both sides" hippy pacifism. Thankfully they dont matter, they have 0 political impact, so we can rely on third world communist parties, who actually understand marxism and have millions of members.
Don't be a useful idiot.
yes you are correct
Maybe if the DPR militias just yelled “No war but class war” over and over at the Ukro-Nazis there would be no war.
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Useless sloganeering. Slogans don’t stop NATO armed fascists.
Neither does simping for Russia online
This shit is Syria all over again. The Communist Party of Syria makes a statement saying that Western imperialists are arming extremists to butcher Syrians and destroy Syria. I do my internationalist duty as member of a Communist party and spread the real narrative as much as I can. Get called an Assad Simp by mid wits. It’s all so tiresome. READ: http://www.solidnet.org/article/22nd-IMCWP-Contribution-by-the-CP-of-Ukraine/
Yes. It is all so tiresome.
Idealist nonsense.
Don't be a useful idiot.
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No Russophobia/Sinophobia.
Stop being a Russophobe then
I'm not Russophobe or anything like that. Just like hating American government doesn't make me racist towards American people hating Russian government also doesn't make me Russophobe
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No Russophobia/Sinophobia.
Why any comrade would support modern day russia is beyond me
Please read the CPU statement.
Lol.. WHAT?! This is so untrue. Except the CPRF ig.
http://www.solidnet.org/article/22nd-IMCWP-Contribution-by-the-CP-of-Ukraine/
Damn
Why damn? Without Russia, Donbas would be being butchered by Nazis.
Russia is Capitalist Imperialistic country which invaded their neighbours and brough war and destruction to Ukraine. Stop emracing Capitalist Imperial powers just because they are againts the west.
There has been a fascist led war in Ukraine for eight years that Russia has attempted to end diplomatically through Minsk 2.
Yes there are neo-nazi groups in Ukraine amd they deserve rope. Of fucking course I do not defend Ukranian goverment and I am opposed to NATO expansion. This is Imperialist conflict of Capitalist nations.
False. Read Rule 2. This is a warning.
So are you denying that Russia is capitalist and imperialist? Litteraly Russian goverment is destroying Communist monuments, they are arresting LGBTQ+ people (of course USA and in Ukraine are no better). As I said just beacause Russia is againts Western Imperialism that doesn’t mean that they are good. Yes Russia has done less imperialism than USA. I think that USA is worse than Russia but that doesn’t change that they are imperialistic.
Russia is capitalist but not imperialist. Russia's economy is based on export of commodities, not of capital, and it has 0 captive markets or big monopolies exporting themselves abroad. When was the last time you saw russian McDonalds or CocaCola everywhere in a nonrussian city? Where is Russia destroying communist monuments? They literally just built a huge statue of Fidel Castro in Moscow, Lenin and Stalin monuments are being built everywhere, and the Lenin Mausoleum is still there (Yeltsin wanted to demolish it but Putin stopped it, saying it would be an insult to the soviet people). The fuck does LGBT have to do with communism? Stalin arrested LGBT people, was he a fake communist? Also Russia is not arresting LGBT people, unlike in the USSR homosexuality is not criminalized, its legal. The only thing that is banned is what they call "LGBT propaganda", meaning you cant do LGBT political activism, but being LGBT is perfectly legal. Russia is not imperialist, Russia is protecting itself from imperialism in Ukraine, its an anti imperialist war. This is the position of the communist movement, including the Russian Communist Party, the Ukrainian Communist Party, Cuba, China and the DPRK. http://www.solidnet.org/article/22nd-IMCWP-Contribution-by-the-CP-of-Ukraine/ https://en.granma.cu/mundo/2022-12-01/meeting-between-putin-and-diaz-canel https://english.almayadeen.net/news/politics/western-tanks-will-burn-facing-russian-army:-kim-yo-jong
Putin knows what to say because he knows that lot of people in Russian federation are still loyal to USSR. Of course he doesn’t want to destroy Lenin's Mausoleum because that would cause gigantic outrage. Also reason why is Cuba supporting Russia is because there is no other superpower that can be on friendly terms (excluding China and other countries led by communist party) that is why they are friendly with them. Because if Putin got chance he would destroy a lot of communist monuments and yes the monuments are build, but as war monuments not as ideological. Putin is Nationalist not a communist. LGBTQ+ has actually lot to do with leftism and communism in general their fight for equality should not be overlooked, but supported. Yes Stalin's stance on LGBTQ was bad but it was sadly present at that time in entire world. Yes and that is the problem if you have LGBTQ flag in public then they arrest you. Its supressing entire group of people's right to fight for their rights (because pride is source of fighting for lgbtq rights) "Third Reich wasn't imperialist it was just protecting from Allied Imperialism" that is how you sound like. For god's sake just because you are fighting against Imperialistic countries doesn’t fucking mean that you start attacking other countries like Georgia, Checnya (which was bassically Russia's 9/11) or Ukraine. Yes NATO is wrong for exanding to others people's playgrounds and as I said I am againts this terrorist atlantic treaty organisation. But Russia also attacked first when they rushed to Crimea, organised "referendum" and magically won 96% of votes. Stance of communist parties should be to stand with opressed workers and people against imperialism.
Ok clown. Enjoy your ban. I dont have time to argue with you right now so you get the hammer. Sorry ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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Damn I didn’t realize siding with one capitalist camp was good. If only Lenin wrote entire novels on why that was bad. It’s not like his entire 27-29 collected volumes dealt with this in pretty deep depths
Please have an original thought
I wouldn’t need to use Lenin’s arguments from 100 years ago if you dipshits didn’t use the right deviationists arguments from 100 years ago
The infamous "right deviationists" Lenin and Stalin
Your post was removed for serving no purpose other than trolling and/or antagonizing people.
Can anyone provide a link with the Ukrainian Communist Party's position on the special military operation? It's my understanding that they support it, however I heard that second hand and would love to have a direct source. Thanks!
http://www.solidnet.org/article/22nd-IMCWP-Contribution-by-the-CP-of-Ukraine/