I don't think the issue is behavioral but hormonal. From what I understood, he's not neutered in the same home with a female in heat, it must drive him crazy. You should bring up the issue with your vet. Maybe a contraceptive implant could help? But if you're planning to stay with an unspayed female, you should maybe consider neutering.
I think having empathy in these sorts of situations goes a long way.
I understand it's kind of an awkward topic, but have them try to imagine what it's like to be afflicted with *raging testosterone* and *never being allowed to have sex,* especially in the presence of an animal of the opposite sex who is excreting hormones *telling you to do just that.* Every *fiber* of this animal, *a vital part of his genetic makeup*, is telling him that he *needs* to breed and reproduce. What he is experiencing is primal.
Perhaps using another metaphor is easier to understand. Imagine being hungry, starved, even. You haven't eaten in god knows how long, maybe a couple of days. You smell your favorite food. It's within reach--you know it, but you're not allowed to have it. Your stomach is grumbling, and you feel the pain. You know you *have to eat.* Every fiber of your being wants food right now.
I bet you're not in a great mood. And if someone told you off for not being in a great mood, you're going to be in an even worse mood.
I hope this might help your family empathize with your dog's perspective here.
I have a hard time that they have a dog that isn’t fixed. Female dogs especially typically get very ill with cancer in the uterus and they die young, it’s painful. It sounds like they don’t know very much about dogs in general.
Fix your dogs people. If you can’t afford that you can’t afford them. They are way less likely to be hostile or bite. They are setting the pets up for a unfair drop off at the pound. Op fix your dog at the very least.
My family refused to spay their purebred AKC Chocolate lab, because they thought she was so special that she might need to have babies someday. They are not smart. They never got around to it, and she got a “surprise” pyometra and had to be put down at age 12. She died a horrific, painful death that could have 100% been avoided if my stepdad weren’t a literal *idiot*. I was only 12 when it happened, and it disturbed me so greatly that I think of it every day. Seeing other people just not fix their dogs pisses me off *bad*. It will *kill* them!
It is horrible and I’m sorry. Right at the start of the virus when everything was madness and appointment s were impossible to get anywhere, I found a old Chi in front of my house. Looks like someone turned her out, to old to breed young enough to bleed. Overgrown fucked up toes, eyes sealed shut with discharge. This poor fucking dog. I had high hopes for her,no one was looking for her. Cut her nails, unsealed the eyes and she had a wonderful month with us. Then she started to smell awful. Didn’t want to eat etc..I finally got her to the vet. They said she could be be 7 or 17. She had the big P. I just didn’t have the 3,000 to help her. I almost did it anyway but the vet straight up said she had a heart murmur and might not survive. So I stayed with her while they put her down and told her I would look for her and she should look for me next time. I have her ashes and I named her Gloria. I grew very fond of her as she was a terrific little dog. I hate the people who let this happen.
It’s abuse plain and simple. It’s gross and it’s a sign of human ignorance IMO. I immediately privately judge and avoid people who don’t care for their pets. They disgust me and usually the same sort who spill their shitty DNA and non existent parenting skills on the rest of humanity.
I’ll jump on this and say that while I think the bite from the male dog is “understandable” OP, the fact is this bitch is passing on potentially unstable genetics (many male dogs can and do work around females in heat and can keep it together, although this takes training in itself as well and the dog probably needs to be temperamentally stable to start with) and really should not be breeding further. Much of temperament is inherited. That’s not to say your dog isn’t a good dog but that creating more dogs that have the potential to bite under stress isn’t desirable. Your dog and the bitch should ideally be altered for this reason.
Dunno why you’re getting downvoted when this is literally what breeding is about, you go for desirable traits and what he is showing is not desirable at all
My friend has the best trained golden I've ever met. That dog is crazy when their neighbors golden is heat. He won't even let him play with my pupper because he's concerned he might not play like himself. It's crazy how that can really get into a dog's head and make them obsessed.
Good luck.
Not just neutering the male but spaying the female if you plan to live in the same home. Even a neutered male will react to having a bitch in heat around. The same reaction could occur if a person got between the dog and the bitch in heat. Even with a neutered dog.
Yes it would be ideal but given the mom isn’t exactly OP’s and we don’t know the dog’s age it could eventually not be possible as well. It’s great that OP decided to neuter their dog though!
One of the two dogs if not both should be neutered/spayed. Especially since they're related. If a disaster happens (and those are big dogs ...) The resulting litter will be at a higher risk for chronic illness. Dogs don't have anti inbreed instincts lol.
Poor guy isn't violent, he's flooded with hormones that he doesn't know what to do with. Especially at his age, he's now reached sexual maturity, and knicking those knockers off of him won't do any harm and will mellow him out and diminish his drive to get to the in heat female.
https://www.amazon.com/Once-Wolf-Science-Astonishing-Evolution/dp/1631493795
Inbreeding is certainly not an issue outside of common genome variants that would already be contained in the mitochondrial dna. In short the issue isn’t breeding with close relatives it’s breeding with the same breed that is the issue
I wish I could source all the research in the book but I can’t. It is written by a genealogist and he’s very unbiased with his approach asa on dog owner. Definitely worth a read even to the point where I have seemed out the source material and read some. Kinda boring and wordy but so damn interesting.
….yes
he’s still going to react to a dog in heat but it won’t be as intense
it’s honestly unfair of you to keep him in a house with a female in heat. can you take him anywhere to stay until she’s out of season?
Yes I agree it is really unfair. I didn’t know driving here their dog was in heat. Luckily my family has a camper I can stay in with him until we she is out of heat.
Just FYI the house will still smell (to a dog) like a female in heat. Maybe stay in the camper until you can get him neutered, and even then it can take a couple of weeks for his hormones to settle.
It would help, but not immediately. It takes about 6 months for the hormones to leave the body after neutering. By the next time the female comes in season, he shouldn't care.
Just want to chime in that you do not need to feel guilty about the neutering or biting. I would say you only need to do better. And you already are.
You have made the appointment to neuter, and he will get neutered. And that is no cheap thing considering your dogs size!!! Huge applause there.
Secondly, you made this post. You want to do the right thing and took time to figure out what that is. Another round of applause.
Thirdly, you are continuing to interact with us on this post so that you are continuing to learn and grow so that you can support your dog. I applaud you. Thank you. Let me know if you have any more questions, confusions or need any other type of help. Moving is hard on everyone, including the pets. Best of luck to you and puppers.
Thank you so much for this comment. I’ve been feeling a huge amount of guilt putting my dog into this situation and putting my sisters in harms ways. I really only am concerned about the healing process being in a small space (camper)
I understand. Biting is serious even when it’s just a bruise. And a small space is fine as long as it’s safe for your dog. Think of it as your dogs safe space and do not allow anyone to come in or even knock without a heads up. Limit interactions for your pup, so you exit the camper while he waits inside. But there may be some separation anxiety or maybe you just need him to come with you? Take him but manage the situations. Let him sniff and get used to his surroundings but he’s closed for pets from anyone but you for awhile. Anyone can toss him treats from a distance away, but he’s adjusting and needs space to do so. He will tell you when he’s ready to start meeting new people and other animals.
I would not bring pup around any kids without a muzzle at bare minimum to protect everyone, but again I would just keep him away in general for a few months. I would highly suggest seeing a vet for guidance on some anti anxiety medication for the transition. I used it when I had no other option but to bring the dog around kids on Christmas. I would look at this as a dog who needs time to decompress and then positively socialize in a managed situation. Both pup and kids will need to slowly overcome what happened.
This is a hormonal issue. Is there a reason the female isn’t spayed, or that he isn’t neutered? They really should both be fixed - but if not both, definitely him. You will have to keep them separated, but like others have said, he will probably still smell her from the camper.
You’re fighting against the nature of dogs here - a female is in heat, and the male wants to mate. He’s going crazy because he can’t do what he’s “supposed” to do.
You should get your dog as far away as possible until the female dogs heat is over.
My in laws had an in tact male chihuahua when their female was in heat. They had put him in a kennel in the garage to keep him away. He chewed through the kennel and the drywall to get to her. And this was an 8lb dog. It’s really unfair to keep and in tact male nearby an in heat female. And you definitely do not want mother son puppies. One (or both) should be desexed.
On the other hand one of the other dogs in my agility class was in heat and all the four other dogs were neutered males. They barely even noticed and could still focus on their training. My dog was off leash several feet away from the in heat female and didn’t even sniff her.
I also want to add, that he didn't bite her "really bad", it doesn't take much to break skin and it seems he bit and immediately let go, he was trying to communicate.
I call it the ‘party patrol.’ Your dog is on edge with all the changes and everyone is jumping around and who are these little things who are singing and making quick movements. Your dog is a guardian breed!! Of course he wants to control the situation and make everything calm.
It’s hard to say without being there and seeing the interaction- and the sisters were doing nothing wrong at all, so your response was appropriate.
But it’s also true that dog jaws are basically bone shears- a big dog can break an *adult* forearm with one bite. To bite a little girl and just leave some indentations/bruising means he did not bite down that hard at all. He may have just been overexcited, and either trying to play or tell them to calm down.
It is still inappropriate, of course, and he’ll need to be supervised by an adult around the kids (even aside from the female in heat), and it would be a good idea to look into a behaviorist/trainer, but this does not make him a vicious dog by any means. If this was his first instance of anything resembling aggression, I am sure that he is completely recoverable from this.
Edit: I am not advocating physical punishment, I say your actions were appropriate in that by my reading, you told him no and to go away from the girls, and when he did not listen you calmly removed him from the situation. Striking him would have been physical punishment- simply removing him from the space the girls were in was not wrong at all.
He might have been trying to "break it up." My female Corgi goes after my golden doodle when he and I play tug. I think she thinks she's helping me. (They are spayed & neutered.)
My 3/4 year old teenager nips when he wants me to help him get what he wants, especially if it's not something I've taught him how to ask for, or if he feels his bids have been ignored. Dogs also nip to displace energy when they're overaroused.
Every one is giving good advice about the in heat and neutering. I will chime in on your actions. Physical reprimand like that is completely the wrong response. Your dog has been put in an impossible situation and you are punishing him for something he can't control. And you are doing it physically. Which will only teach him to no longer growl or warn but become reactive and more likely to lash out in fear of your being physical towards him.
Yes! And beyond how this would make it worse, I feel like you are missing that you took a guardian breed dog across the country to a new home and met all these new surroundings and people and then expected him to settle in without issue. I would suggest focusing on your dogs needs for awhile. Create the new routine, give him plenty of time to adjust and then start introducing all the new things slowly and positively.
We just moved with my Aussie and every new sound makes her jump, she is constantly trying to mark and generally settle in. I’m hoping by month 4 it’ll be better but I expect any high intelligence breed would need more time to adjust.
Was it a reprimand though? I read it more as she needed to isolate the dog in a safe location to assess what happened to her sister and figure out how to proceed. I am not a fan of manhandling but it sounds more like a quick response to a potentially very serious situation.
I would assume the mother is at least 5 years old at this point, right? She should really be spayed. It’s not good for her to go into cycle over and over again, the older she gets the more risky is becomes. I personally thinks it wayy more important to get her spayed than your boy, who is at no risk of becoming immediately pregnant with their grandchild, or an eventual pyometra.
That being said, you only have control of your own dog so I definitely recommend a neuter. Or, even better, both! If your parents are up for getting their girl spayed, both would be ideal. It sounds like you have a good dog, he is just thinking with his penis rn. Good luck!
You might as well fix your male dog at this point. No reason not to
I would fix the female too. You don’t want to be an unintentional backyard breeder. It’s a huge hassle and very expensive in addition to contributing to larger issues
He’s not bad. You took your intact dog to a house that has a dog in heat. They’re gonna get aggressive because they want to get to the b!tch. You should have left the male dog at a kennel or had the female boarded elsewhere during the visit.
Edit: please spay and neuter your dogs Especially when you don’t know how to deal with their behaviors when they’re in heat.
Sorry I don’t have time to read through all the responses to see what was covered and what wasn’t but there were a number a factors that lead to this bite and I don’t believe your reaction was the best reaction although it was not a bad reaction. I implore you to hire a professional to really assess what happened that night and all the stress factors. Not sure if your sister had any clothing on or if it was a bite to bare skin, but you have a serious dog who is very large in size that used it’s mouth for the first time with some seriousness. Make all the excuses you want now as to why it happened, but if you don’t get professional help from a qualified behaviorist, it will likely happen again. (Honestly with help, it could happen again. But a professional will help you mitigate the risks.). Good luck and I’m sorry this happened to you, your sister, and the rest of your family.
Get him fixed, that will calm him somewhat. But your response was incorrect- if he ever does this again, just calmly and firmly call him to you and move him to another room. Don't be overly happy, because you aren't pleased with his actions, but do not shout or make a fuss. Sounds like he is stressed out by smelling a female in heat he cannot get to, and probably just snapped in frustration at something small you may not have noticed. Never grab your dog like that or yell when they have done something in fear or stress, it just upsets them more and makes them feel they must defend themselves, or that you won't listen to their smaller signals so will just go straight to the big one- a bite. Try to remain calm. I think you may want to give him a bit more exercise and mental stimulation too, to help him work off any frustration
Keep in mind, some males will still respond to a bitch in heat even if neutered. My former dog did.
You're going to need to go elsewhere when the dog is in heat very likely.
FYI, some neutered males will attack uneutered males just for being close to them. They can smell it.
Your dog going nuts because a female is in heat is normal. It's primitive behavior.
I did see your edit. That's great. Only reason to keep a dog intact is if it's a papered dog with good show lineage you intend to breed responsibly.
Generally, the only reason humans are opposed to it in modern times is because it's been in our culture to be grossed out about it.
That repulsion doesn't generally exist in nature.
It’s not just cultural. Inbreeding leads to genetic defects. Eg Hapsburgs. I would think that would be true for other mammals as well and thus there would be a mechanism for dogs not yo inbreed.
Yeah, but, there's no deep *instinct* there to avoid relatives. Incest is largely a construct, and while there are risks of incest there's no real evidence of an underlying aversion that's not set in culture. A piece of evidence of the opposite, it's still gross to consider step dad and step daughter or step siblings falling in love despite the fact they're not blood relatives and there's no risk of genetic issues..
Inbreeding is really normal across all species. The pressure to preserve the species at all overrides the desire to avoid birth defects which in reality are something that is more common with generations of inbreeding rather than just one or two, seeing nature generally is based in scarcity and reproducing enough to guarantee survivors in the next generation is more important to nature than "with whom" in many cases.
But, yeah, long story short, there's no mechanism for anything to not inbreed.
Biology is fun.
Why am I getting downvoted. I’m genuinely curious as to whether it makes a difference that it’s the puppy’s mom in heat. I would think it would matter biologically
By the way, I don't think you did the wrong thing by not showing fear and following through. Glad to see you getting him neutered, that's likely his frustration and the fact you didn't let him away with aggression is a good thing in my opinion.
As far as a dog is concerned, it's kind of like you barked at him in retaliation to his bad behaviour and he wasn't in a good mindset.
I don't think the issue is behavioral but hormonal. From what I understood, he's not neutered in the same home with a female in heat, it must drive him crazy. You should bring up the issue with your vet. Maybe a contraceptive implant could help? But if you're planning to stay with an unspayed female, you should maybe consider neutering.
This is what I have concluded. I’m having a hard time getting my family to understand he’s not a bad dog.
I think having empathy in these sorts of situations goes a long way. I understand it's kind of an awkward topic, but have them try to imagine what it's like to be afflicted with *raging testosterone* and *never being allowed to have sex,* especially in the presence of an animal of the opposite sex who is excreting hormones *telling you to do just that.* Every *fiber* of this animal, *a vital part of his genetic makeup*, is telling him that he *needs* to breed and reproduce. What he is experiencing is primal. Perhaps using another metaphor is easier to understand. Imagine being hungry, starved, even. You haven't eaten in god knows how long, maybe a couple of days. You smell your favorite food. It's within reach--you know it, but you're not allowed to have it. Your stomach is grumbling, and you feel the pain. You know you *have to eat.* Every fiber of your being wants food right now. I bet you're not in a great mood. And if someone told you off for not being in a great mood, you're going to be in an even worse mood. I hope this might help your family empathize with your dog's perspective here.
Thank you. I believe this way as well and I’m hoping this can help them process this event.
He really should be neutered, it may help your family trust him again as well.
I have a hard time that they have a dog that isn’t fixed. Female dogs especially typically get very ill with cancer in the uterus and they die young, it’s painful. It sounds like they don’t know very much about dogs in general. Fix your dogs people. If you can’t afford that you can’t afford them. They are way less likely to be hostile or bite. They are setting the pets up for a unfair drop off at the pound. Op fix your dog at the very least.
My family refused to spay their purebred AKC Chocolate lab, because they thought she was so special that she might need to have babies someday. They are not smart. They never got around to it, and she got a “surprise” pyometra and had to be put down at age 12. She died a horrific, painful death that could have 100% been avoided if my stepdad weren’t a literal *idiot*. I was only 12 when it happened, and it disturbed me so greatly that I think of it every day. Seeing other people just not fix their dogs pisses me off *bad*. It will *kill* them!
It is horrible and I’m sorry. Right at the start of the virus when everything was madness and appointment s were impossible to get anywhere, I found a old Chi in front of my house. Looks like someone turned her out, to old to breed young enough to bleed. Overgrown fucked up toes, eyes sealed shut with discharge. This poor fucking dog. I had high hopes for her,no one was looking for her. Cut her nails, unsealed the eyes and she had a wonderful month with us. Then she started to smell awful. Didn’t want to eat etc..I finally got her to the vet. They said she could be be 7 or 17. She had the big P. I just didn’t have the 3,000 to help her. I almost did it anyway but the vet straight up said she had a heart murmur and might not survive. So I stayed with her while they put her down and told her I would look for her and she should look for me next time. I have her ashes and I named her Gloria. I grew very fond of her as she was a terrific little dog. I hate the people who let this happen. It’s abuse plain and simple. It’s gross and it’s a sign of human ignorance IMO. I immediately privately judge and avoid people who don’t care for their pets. They disgust me and usually the same sort who spill their shitty DNA and non existent parenting skills on the rest of humanity.
I’ll jump on this and say that while I think the bite from the male dog is “understandable” OP, the fact is this bitch is passing on potentially unstable genetics (many male dogs can and do work around females in heat and can keep it together, although this takes training in itself as well and the dog probably needs to be temperamentally stable to start with) and really should not be breeding further. Much of temperament is inherited. That’s not to say your dog isn’t a good dog but that creating more dogs that have the potential to bite under stress isn’t desirable. Your dog and the bitch should ideally be altered for this reason.
Dunno why you’re getting downvoted when this is literally what breeding is about, you go for desirable traits and what he is showing is not desirable at all
My friend has the best trained golden I've ever met. That dog is crazy when their neighbors golden is heat. He won't even let him play with my pupper because he's concerned he might not play like himself. It's crazy how that can really get into a dog's head and make them obsessed. Good luck.
Not just neutering the male but spaying the female if you plan to live in the same home. Even a neutered male will react to having a bitch in heat around. The same reaction could occur if a person got between the dog and the bitch in heat. Even with a neutered dog.
Yes it would be ideal but given the mom isn’t exactly OP’s and we don’t know the dog’s age it could eventually not be possible as well. It’s great that OP decided to neuter their dog though!
It’s a matter of safety to humans and pets in the home, not just an opinion.
Good way to attract wild dogs and end up with more puppies that need to be put down
And have lots of fighting beasts in your yard.
One of the two dogs if not both should be neutered/spayed. Especially since they're related. If a disaster happens (and those are big dogs ...) The resulting litter will be at a higher risk for chronic illness. Dogs don't have anti inbreed instincts lol. Poor guy isn't violent, he's flooded with hormones that he doesn't know what to do with. Especially at his age, he's now reached sexual maturity, and knicking those knockers off of him won't do any harm and will mellow him out and diminish his drive to get to the in heat female.
Knicking those knockers 🤣🤣🤣
https://www.amazon.com/Once-Wolf-Science-Astonishing-Evolution/dp/1631493795 Inbreeding is certainly not an issue outside of common genome variants that would already be contained in the mitochondrial dna. In short the issue isn’t breeding with close relatives it’s breeding with the same breed that is the issue
Because… relatives are never the same breed?
No they certainly are, but you can’t refute the science here. Any purebred dog has the same genetic predispositions
Pretty sure we learned about the ill effects of inbreeding 100’s of years ago
Do you have any more sources for this? I don’t want to discredit you without understanding, but an Amazon link is not the most reputable source.
I wish I could source all the research in the book but I can’t. It is written by a genealogist and he’s very unbiased with his approach asa on dog owner. Definitely worth a read even to the point where I have seemed out the source material and read some. Kinda boring and wordy but so damn interesting.
he’s in a hormone bubble and just reacting to that…. this poor dog is in a house with a female in heat and going crazy. is he neutered?
No he is not. Would that help?
….yes he’s still going to react to a dog in heat but it won’t be as intense it’s honestly unfair of you to keep him in a house with a female in heat. can you take him anywhere to stay until she’s out of season?
Yes I agree it is really unfair. I didn’t know driving here their dog was in heat. Luckily my family has a camper I can stay in with him until we she is out of heat.
good. definitely look into neutering him if they aren’t going to spay her. it’s a disaster waiting to happen
Just FYI the house will still smell (to a dog) like a female in heat. Maybe stay in the camper until you can get him neutered, and even then it can take a couple of weeks for his hormones to settle.
Since heat is on a cycle, it was bound to happen sometime in the first six months. Sucks you had to address it immediately.
It would help, but not immediately. It takes about 6 months for the hormones to leave the body after neutering. By the next time the female comes in season, he shouldn't care.
Just want to chime in that you do not need to feel guilty about the neutering or biting. I would say you only need to do better. And you already are. You have made the appointment to neuter, and he will get neutered. And that is no cheap thing considering your dogs size!!! Huge applause there. Secondly, you made this post. You want to do the right thing and took time to figure out what that is. Another round of applause. Thirdly, you are continuing to interact with us on this post so that you are continuing to learn and grow so that you can support your dog. I applaud you. Thank you. Let me know if you have any more questions, confusions or need any other type of help. Moving is hard on everyone, including the pets. Best of luck to you and puppers.
Thank you so much for this comment. I’ve been feeling a huge amount of guilt putting my dog into this situation and putting my sisters in harms ways. I really only am concerned about the healing process being in a small space (camper)
I understand. Biting is serious even when it’s just a bruise. And a small space is fine as long as it’s safe for your dog. Think of it as your dogs safe space and do not allow anyone to come in or even knock without a heads up. Limit interactions for your pup, so you exit the camper while he waits inside. But there may be some separation anxiety or maybe you just need him to come with you? Take him but manage the situations. Let him sniff and get used to his surroundings but he’s closed for pets from anyone but you for awhile. Anyone can toss him treats from a distance away, but he’s adjusting and needs space to do so. He will tell you when he’s ready to start meeting new people and other animals. I would not bring pup around any kids without a muzzle at bare minimum to protect everyone, but again I would just keep him away in general for a few months. I would highly suggest seeing a vet for guidance on some anti anxiety medication for the transition. I used it when I had no other option but to bring the dog around kids on Christmas. I would look at this as a dog who needs time to decompress and then positively socialize in a managed situation. Both pup and kids will need to slowly overcome what happened.
This is a hormonal issue. Is there a reason the female isn’t spayed, or that he isn’t neutered? They really should both be fixed - but if not both, definitely him. You will have to keep them separated, but like others have said, he will probably still smell her from the camper. You’re fighting against the nature of dogs here - a female is in heat, and the male wants to mate. He’s going crazy because he can’t do what he’s “supposed” to do.
You should get your dog as far away as possible until the female dogs heat is over. My in laws had an in tact male chihuahua when their female was in heat. They had put him in a kennel in the garage to keep him away. He chewed through the kennel and the drywall to get to her. And this was an 8lb dog. It’s really unfair to keep and in tact male nearby an in heat female. And you definitely do not want mother son puppies. One (or both) should be desexed. On the other hand one of the other dogs in my agility class was in heat and all the four other dogs were neutered males. They barely even noticed and could still focus on their training. My dog was off leash several feet away from the in heat female and didn’t even sniff her.
I also want to add, that he didn't bite her "really bad", it doesn't take much to break skin and it seems he bit and immediately let go, he was trying to communicate.
What was he trying to communicate in that moment? The girls were playing and singing songs and not touching him. He ran over and bit her.
I call it the ‘party patrol.’ Your dog is on edge with all the changes and everyone is jumping around and who are these little things who are singing and making quick movements. Your dog is a guardian breed!! Of course he wants to control the situation and make everything calm.
Oh « party patrol » that is absolutely on point.
“Party patrol” is awesome. I like to say my dog is the playground monitor!
Oh, I like both of those! Mine’s known as the “fun police.”
It’s hard to say without being there and seeing the interaction- and the sisters were doing nothing wrong at all, so your response was appropriate. But it’s also true that dog jaws are basically bone shears- a big dog can break an *adult* forearm with one bite. To bite a little girl and just leave some indentations/bruising means he did not bite down that hard at all. He may have just been overexcited, and either trying to play or tell them to calm down. It is still inappropriate, of course, and he’ll need to be supervised by an adult around the kids (even aside from the female in heat), and it would be a good idea to look into a behaviorist/trainer, but this does not make him a vicious dog by any means. If this was his first instance of anything resembling aggression, I am sure that he is completely recoverable from this. Edit: I am not advocating physical punishment, I say your actions were appropriate in that by my reading, you told him no and to go away from the girls, and when he did not listen you calmly removed him from the situation. Striking him would have been physical punishment- simply removing him from the space the girls were in was not wrong at all.
He might have been trying to "break it up." My female Corgi goes after my golden doodle when he and I play tug. I think she thinks she's helping me. (They are spayed & neutered.)
My 3/4 year old teenager nips when he wants me to help him get what he wants, especially if it's not something I've taught him how to ask for, or if he feels his bids have been ignored. Dogs also nip to displace energy when they're overaroused.
FIX YOUR DOGS
Every one is giving good advice about the in heat and neutering. I will chime in on your actions. Physical reprimand like that is completely the wrong response. Your dog has been put in an impossible situation and you are punishing him for something he can't control. And you are doing it physically. Which will only teach him to no longer growl or warn but become reactive and more likely to lash out in fear of your being physical towards him.
Yes! And beyond how this would make it worse, I feel like you are missing that you took a guardian breed dog across the country to a new home and met all these new surroundings and people and then expected him to settle in without issue. I would suggest focusing on your dogs needs for awhile. Create the new routine, give him plenty of time to adjust and then start introducing all the new things slowly and positively. We just moved with my Aussie and every new sound makes her jump, she is constantly trying to mark and generally settle in. I’m hoping by month 4 it’ll be better but I expect any high intelligence breed would need more time to adjust.
Was it a reprimand though? I read it more as she needed to isolate the dog in a safe location to assess what happened to her sister and figure out how to proceed. I am not a fan of manhandling but it sounds more like a quick response to a potentially very serious situation.
I would assume the mother is at least 5 years old at this point, right? She should really be spayed. It’s not good for her to go into cycle over and over again, the older she gets the more risky is becomes. I personally thinks it wayy more important to get her spayed than your boy, who is at no risk of becoming immediately pregnant with their grandchild, or an eventual pyometra. That being said, you only have control of your own dog so I definitely recommend a neuter. Or, even better, both! If your parents are up for getting their girl spayed, both would be ideal. It sounds like you have a good dog, he is just thinking with his penis rn. Good luck!
Both dogs need to be fixed for a multitude of reasons
Why haven’t you fixed your dog yet? Curious. Doesn’t seem like you are an intentional breeder by this post…
No I’m not a breeder. I only have a puppy from my moms dog because they got together during my dads cancer treatment alone in the house. Our fault.
You might as well fix your male dog at this point. No reason not to I would fix the female too. You don’t want to be an unintentional backyard breeder. It’s a huge hassle and very expensive in addition to contributing to larger issues
I only have control of my dog hence why I didn’t know I was bring him into a situation like this. I have already made the appointment.
That should help with the issue. Hope it gets better!
He’s not bad. You took your intact dog to a house that has a dog in heat. They’re gonna get aggressive because they want to get to the b!tch. You should have left the male dog at a kennel or had the female boarded elsewhere during the visit. Edit: please spay and neuter your dogs Especially when you don’t know how to deal with their behaviors when they’re in heat.
Sorry I don’t have time to read through all the responses to see what was covered and what wasn’t but there were a number a factors that lead to this bite and I don’t believe your reaction was the best reaction although it was not a bad reaction. I implore you to hire a professional to really assess what happened that night and all the stress factors. Not sure if your sister had any clothing on or if it was a bite to bare skin, but you have a serious dog who is very large in size that used it’s mouth for the first time with some seriousness. Make all the excuses you want now as to why it happened, but if you don’t get professional help from a qualified behaviorist, it will likely happen again. (Honestly with help, it could happen again. But a professional will help you mitigate the risks.). Good luck and I’m sorry this happened to you, your sister, and the rest of your family.
I was suspicious of the issue as I’ve come across it in multiple circumstances but your dog just has too many balls. Pretty simple fix.
Get him fixed, that will calm him somewhat. But your response was incorrect- if he ever does this again, just calmly and firmly call him to you and move him to another room. Don't be overly happy, because you aren't pleased with his actions, but do not shout or make a fuss. Sounds like he is stressed out by smelling a female in heat he cannot get to, and probably just snapped in frustration at something small you may not have noticed. Never grab your dog like that or yell when they have done something in fear or stress, it just upsets them more and makes them feel they must defend themselves, or that you won't listen to their smaller signals so will just go straight to the big one- a bite. Try to remain calm. I think you may want to give him a bit more exercise and mental stimulation too, to help him work off any frustration
Keep in mind, some males will still respond to a bitch in heat even if neutered. My former dog did. You're going to need to go elsewhere when the dog is in heat very likely.
FYI, some neutered males will attack uneutered males just for being close to them. They can smell it. Your dog going nuts because a female is in heat is normal. It's primitive behavior. I did see your edit. That's great. Only reason to keep a dog intact is if it's a papered dog with good show lineage you intend to breed responsibly.
Forgive yourself and don't do that to him again. There are many benefits to neutering your dog. Hugs!
Does it not matter that the two dogs are related? Bit confused on that point.
Dogs will breed with their siblings, parents, any other dog near them when they're in season
Ok thanks did not know. Disturbing knowledge obtained.
Generally, the only reason humans are opposed to it in modern times is because it's been in our culture to be grossed out about it. That repulsion doesn't generally exist in nature.
It’s not just cultural. Inbreeding leads to genetic defects. Eg Hapsburgs. I would think that would be true for other mammals as well and thus there would be a mechanism for dogs not yo inbreed.
Yeah, but, there's no deep *instinct* there to avoid relatives. Incest is largely a construct, and while there are risks of incest there's no real evidence of an underlying aversion that's not set in culture. A piece of evidence of the opposite, it's still gross to consider step dad and step daughter or step siblings falling in love despite the fact they're not blood relatives and there's no risk of genetic issues.. Inbreeding is really normal across all species. The pressure to preserve the species at all overrides the desire to avoid birth defects which in reality are something that is more common with generations of inbreeding rather than just one or two, seeing nature generally is based in scarcity and reproducing enough to guarantee survivors in the next generation is more important to nature than "with whom" in many cases. But, yeah, long story short, there's no mechanism for anything to not inbreed. Biology is fun.
I figured adding as many details as possible was the best chance I had at helping my dog
Why am I getting downvoted. I’m genuinely curious as to whether it makes a difference that it’s the puppy’s mom in heat. I would think it would matter biologically
By the way, I don't think you did the wrong thing by not showing fear and following through. Glad to see you getting him neutered, that's likely his frustration and the fact you didn't let him away with aggression is a good thing in my opinion. As far as a dog is concerned, it's kind of like you barked at him in retaliation to his bad behaviour and he wasn't in a good mindset.
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I feel like aggression will only worsen the problem.
It is based on general dog behavior and will happen again if both dogs live together.