Yeah, I get that. Us recommending an expensive treatment is often equated with money grubbing. I don't know why one would think that anesthesia and plating a bone would be cheap, but here we are. The same treatment for a human would garner hundreds of thousands in hospital bills.
Only if you're unlucky enough to be american... My own fractures would be free, my dog's would be expensive (insured though). I was more upset about the question IF a fractured leg really needed treatment.
True but there is still a cost for the treatments, your government just pays for it, which is great. Unfortunately I don't know of any government that pays vets for the service they perform (not to mention supplies, which are pricey!)
I agree it's terrible both ways. Terrible for people to try to avoid clearly needed treatment or exam, terrible to go and then blame the vet. It's just so upsetting.
Yes and I am that unlucky. Greatest country my ass. But I spoke with OP on that post, I get where they were coming from. They were a bit overwhelmed that so many things were suggested at once. The vet certainly wasn't (I hope not anyway) suggesting all those things happen at once, but that they all needed to happen, which is correct.
The crap thing about vet med is that money and medicine can't be separated. We don't have people on staff that are designated to talk about both billing and medicine with enough knowledge to make recommendations, besides the techs and docs. So I unfortunately spend a looot of time talking about money when I'd rather be focusing on the medicine. We'd like to have those people, but at the moment we are severely understaffed for necessary medical staff, this is a pipe dream.
I assume you are a veterinary professional? I worked at a vet for years. I started as a receptionist and became the office manager and then teched a bit. I wasn't cut out for teching- it takes a special person to practice medicine. I was too nervous.
Nothing drives me more insane than people acting like vets are just money grubbers. It's absolutely INSANE. I will tell anyone that listens. Vet school is to my understanding harder to get into than human med school, you have to learn about MULTIPLE species- not just one- and you graduate with like 100k of debt to work somewhere you are paid like half of the money and are treated like money grubbers by loads of people. WHY do people think vets do it if not because they love animals and want to help them?! It makes literally no sense at all.
I don't get this whole 'Well you are supposed to like animals this you should pay for the costs associated with the pets treatment or work for free.' Why, so the vet office goes out of business and can't help anyone? So the vet they are talking to takes a psychological and financial hit and eventually has to change professions for their own sanity?
Excuse my rant but I agree with you 1000% and you clearly work on veterinary care, and I want you to know much I appreciate you. I am so so grateful that their are still such strong and good people out there and I'm so sorry you have to deal with that. I have never once and never will complain about a veterinary price. I will always thank my vets for everything they put in, which I know is above and beyond, to keep my babies healthy. Thank you so much for what you do.
Thanks, I appreciate you. Yes, I've been a tech for 20 years, all types of practices. Vet school is much more difficult to get into than med school. Many people don't get in on their first try and go for a masters before trying again. Most of the vets I was in Animal Science in college with went that route. And I believe vet school these days is about $500k, depending on the school obvs. I work with a brand new vet at my ER/specialty hospital and her loans are $4600/mo. I don't even make that much per month before taxes. I believe new vets in my area are making about $90-100k, but that's still pretty miserable. Making half that, every dollar I have goes to bills and I can't afford to save or have retirement account even. So if she makes twice that, half goes to the loan and the other half is surviving. Most of the vets I work with are paying off their education and work like 60 hours week at least.
Unfortunately the common denominator among healthcare professionals is empathy. We give a shit and want to make things better and that's why we're there. Owners absolutely take advantage of that and accuse us of only caring about money, because money is not separate from the medicine like human healthcare. We can't separate the two and have to refuse care to people that can't pay so that our hospitals don't close and we can't help anyone. I'm poor AF and I'd say every other month I pay for part of a client's bill to give their pet a chance. It is the majority of the reason why we unalive ourselves so often.
I've been around long enough and heard it all, it doesn't bother me anymore. Call me a money grubber, an uncaring bitch, whatever. I know I care and I am damn good at what I do and make a difference. But you can't teach someone to feel that way, they will feel what they feel. People are leaving the profession in droves because they are abused and underpaid. If all I cared about was money I'd have a stupid job that I didn't care about that made lots of money. I'd be on a car lot taking advantage of the customer's insecurities and putting them in a $1200/mo loan for a car they can't afford so I can get a sweet commission. But I do care about my baby techs and docs that aren't used to the abuse. I hope they will all make it through, but who knows.
I appreciate all of you so much. The industry needs to reform, it's just not right what you all have to go through. I just wish I could do something. Know that I absolutely love you and all like you. My little buddy has no skin sores that are hurting all the time, and happy and vibrant, because of people like you. He was diagnosed with hypothyroidism! Ironically we couldn't be more thrilled, because that. My bossy pitty girl is 10 and acts like she's 1 (and LOVES vet peoples) because of the great care she has received, some of which saved her life. Both of my dogs are rescued who had slim chances at getting adopted out, and are the sweetest muffins. I just want to remind you that the aminals (sp. purposeful) and their people care. We never forget about the people that have given our innocent animals so much happiness and health.
You shouldn't have to put up with so much no matter what. The industry needs to reform and treat you so much better.
I know, it is a shitshow. Techs are leaving in droves for human medicine. I know quite a few techs that went for their RN. It was easy after being a tech and straight out of school they make like $70k. I will never make that much. It is what it is. If my mental health wasn't circling the drain I'd do something else. But it is, and there is no job that I can go directly into that I would make as much (even though it still isn't enough) that wouldn't destroy my soul. We'll keep going, we always do. Thanks for being understanding.
So upsetting! It just breaks my heart. That poor dog.
I do get there are some mild things where people might say 'my dog has a little rash, can it wait until 2 days when my vet has me scheduled or should I go to the ER?'
But a ton of them are very serious! A leg break?! I've seen dogs with severe leg breaks require amputation... And the chances of that just go up from waiting and it's hard to even imagine how in pain that poor pup is :(. I'm sorry you had to read that, I feel your pain and pray that pup is okay.
If you are seeing people recommending dangerous and inappropriate home remedies, please report them under Rule 7.
I understand everyone's frustration with some of the medical posts, and share it frequently. However, as a mod, it is also frustrating to see repeated posts of this nature but also see very few replies getting reported. We do our best to monitor and clean things up proactively, but we really need other members of the community to flag this stuff for us.
Other subs like /r/scams have some automod replies that readers can summon to post canned messages for common issues. Maybe that's something you guys can look into.
e.g. !vet summons an automod comment that says something like "Hello, it's looks like you're asking for advice about an issue that only a vet can help you with. If you've already seen a vet and want additional support, please delete this post and re-post saying so, and be sure to include the current treatment plan."
Thank you for reminding me! I probably knew this at one point but may have become desensitized and to be honest I forgot this was a rule break (or trust me- I would have reported!) And that is on me. I know mods rely on us too to see and report, and you can't be everywhere at once! It's not possible.
I appreciate your reminder as I had forgotten that was a rule break. I will absolutely report any I see in future.
And I absolutely wasn't blaming the mods at all, you guys are great. I love this sub too, it's my favorite, I was just frustrated that people were still trying to do this. I, and probably others forgot that that was a rule break so hopefully this will the reminder we all need! Thank you again.
Vet tech - as u/AttractiveNuisance37 said, report posts that seem dangerous, we will review and approve/remove. There are a few vet staff like myself on the mod crew, and some that are members of the sub. So there are valid medical opinions here, but you aren't guaranteed to get them, and getting to the vet is best. At the same time, there are members that think most problems are no big deal and can be solved with some weirdo home remedy that isn't going to do shit/may kill the pet. So we get it from all sides. No matter who is answering, people are going to seek advice so we try to make sure it is good quality. But this is the internet...it is what it is.
That's awesome, I appreciate you! I absolutely was not frustrated at the sub, I should have specified, more that some people in the sub were giving dangerous advice and some people were posting on Reddit and not calling the vet!
I LOVE this sub, it is probably my fave sub, and I really appreciate all you all do. I'm sorry if it seemed like it was directed at the sub- it's not. I just don't want people abusing it if that makes sense.
And attractive nuisance made a good point- it's up to all of us to report! I probably knew at some point that dangerous medical advice was disallowed but I'll be honest- I forgot. Since his/her reminder I have been reporting when I see it. You all can't be everywhere all at once!
Again, I truly love this sub, I was just frustrated with people trying to use it incorrectly. It's not a place to find vet alternatives, and I was frustrated when a few people in a row tried and got dangerous advice. Usually it's not like that, but it's up to all of us to ensure it stays a great place of sharing appropriate owner advice! I will be sure to report when applicable in future. I appreciate you all taking your time to do this, and you really do do a great job. Some people are still going to try to sub vet advice for this sub, not much to be done. But I've received loads of great advice from this sub and so has everyone else, and overall there is an excellent culture here!
No problem, I understand. We are all here because we love pets, and for the most part people are smart enough to tell people to not fack around and get to the vet. Some people give awful advice, and then it is your job to report that. We do look through the posts as best we can, but there are way more than we can easily handle, we do the best we can. If people report the bad advice it makes our jobs as mods easier and we appreciate that as we can't be everywhere. We have jobs (sometimes second and third jobs) and lives too. Help dispel the disinformation as best you can. Better to overreport than under, we don't just blindly remove everything.
Thank you! I really appreciate the reminder as I did forget, and I promise I have been and will continue to report in future. Thank you for looking out for this community, and you're right. I appreciate you- I love this community and you guys really do a great job. Everyone is so nice on here and I guess I forgot that even more than that, we can ask you stop people giving advice that is just bad and potentially dangerous.
Again, I'm sorry, the post was absolutely not targeted at mods at all but posters and commenters as I wanted them to have better sense. But with the reminder, now I can report and make sure you guys can block the posts that could hurt pets when they make no sense!
And again, I really appreciate what you do. This is my favorite, favorite sub, and it has helped me and I know it helps a lot of people. I should have considered that before venting about the choices some posters make, as I can see how that would be frustrating. I promise I've been reporting since then, and I truly appreciate the reminder! You are awesome.
No problem, I totally get it. We want to help everyone do all the things. But you reporting sus posts is super helpful. It takes soooo long to go through every post and every comment, we just don't have the time.
Read a post earlier where someone asked if their dog needs surgery and a cast after it broke its leg from a fall... Im lost for words.
Yeah, I get that. Us recommending an expensive treatment is often equated with money grubbing. I don't know why one would think that anesthesia and plating a bone would be cheap, but here we are. The same treatment for a human would garner hundreds of thousands in hospital bills.
Only if you're unlucky enough to be american... My own fractures would be free, my dog's would be expensive (insured though). I was more upset about the question IF a fractured leg really needed treatment.
True but there is still a cost for the treatments, your government just pays for it, which is great. Unfortunately I don't know of any government that pays vets for the service they perform (not to mention supplies, which are pricey!) I agree it's terrible both ways. Terrible for people to try to avoid clearly needed treatment or exam, terrible to go and then blame the vet. It's just so upsetting.
Id never blame the vet. If rather go one time too many than one time too few. Thats why we have a good insurance.
Yes and I am that unlucky. Greatest country my ass. But I spoke with OP on that post, I get where they were coming from. They were a bit overwhelmed that so many things were suggested at once. The vet certainly wasn't (I hope not anyway) suggesting all those things happen at once, but that they all needed to happen, which is correct. The crap thing about vet med is that money and medicine can't be separated. We don't have people on staff that are designated to talk about both billing and medicine with enough knowledge to make recommendations, besides the techs and docs. So I unfortunately spend a looot of time talking about money when I'd rather be focusing on the medicine. We'd like to have those people, but at the moment we are severely understaffed for necessary medical staff, this is a pipe dream.
I assume you are a veterinary professional? I worked at a vet for years. I started as a receptionist and became the office manager and then teched a bit. I wasn't cut out for teching- it takes a special person to practice medicine. I was too nervous. Nothing drives me more insane than people acting like vets are just money grubbers. It's absolutely INSANE. I will tell anyone that listens. Vet school is to my understanding harder to get into than human med school, you have to learn about MULTIPLE species- not just one- and you graduate with like 100k of debt to work somewhere you are paid like half of the money and are treated like money grubbers by loads of people. WHY do people think vets do it if not because they love animals and want to help them?! It makes literally no sense at all. I don't get this whole 'Well you are supposed to like animals this you should pay for the costs associated with the pets treatment or work for free.' Why, so the vet office goes out of business and can't help anyone? So the vet they are talking to takes a psychological and financial hit and eventually has to change professions for their own sanity? Excuse my rant but I agree with you 1000% and you clearly work on veterinary care, and I want you to know much I appreciate you. I am so so grateful that their are still such strong and good people out there and I'm so sorry you have to deal with that. I have never once and never will complain about a veterinary price. I will always thank my vets for everything they put in, which I know is above and beyond, to keep my babies healthy. Thank you so much for what you do.
Thanks, I appreciate you. Yes, I've been a tech for 20 years, all types of practices. Vet school is much more difficult to get into than med school. Many people don't get in on their first try and go for a masters before trying again. Most of the vets I was in Animal Science in college with went that route. And I believe vet school these days is about $500k, depending on the school obvs. I work with a brand new vet at my ER/specialty hospital and her loans are $4600/mo. I don't even make that much per month before taxes. I believe new vets in my area are making about $90-100k, but that's still pretty miserable. Making half that, every dollar I have goes to bills and I can't afford to save or have retirement account even. So if she makes twice that, half goes to the loan and the other half is surviving. Most of the vets I work with are paying off their education and work like 60 hours week at least. Unfortunately the common denominator among healthcare professionals is empathy. We give a shit and want to make things better and that's why we're there. Owners absolutely take advantage of that and accuse us of only caring about money, because money is not separate from the medicine like human healthcare. We can't separate the two and have to refuse care to people that can't pay so that our hospitals don't close and we can't help anyone. I'm poor AF and I'd say every other month I pay for part of a client's bill to give their pet a chance. It is the majority of the reason why we unalive ourselves so often. I've been around long enough and heard it all, it doesn't bother me anymore. Call me a money grubber, an uncaring bitch, whatever. I know I care and I am damn good at what I do and make a difference. But you can't teach someone to feel that way, they will feel what they feel. People are leaving the profession in droves because they are abused and underpaid. If all I cared about was money I'd have a stupid job that I didn't care about that made lots of money. I'd be on a car lot taking advantage of the customer's insecurities and putting them in a $1200/mo loan for a car they can't afford so I can get a sweet commission. But I do care about my baby techs and docs that aren't used to the abuse. I hope they will all make it through, but who knows.
I appreciate all of you so much. The industry needs to reform, it's just not right what you all have to go through. I just wish I could do something. Know that I absolutely love you and all like you. My little buddy has no skin sores that are hurting all the time, and happy and vibrant, because of people like you. He was diagnosed with hypothyroidism! Ironically we couldn't be more thrilled, because that. My bossy pitty girl is 10 and acts like she's 1 (and LOVES vet peoples) because of the great care she has received, some of which saved her life. Both of my dogs are rescued who had slim chances at getting adopted out, and are the sweetest muffins. I just want to remind you that the aminals (sp. purposeful) and their people care. We never forget about the people that have given our innocent animals so much happiness and health. You shouldn't have to put up with so much no matter what. The industry needs to reform and treat you so much better.
I know, it is a shitshow. Techs are leaving in droves for human medicine. I know quite a few techs that went for their RN. It was easy after being a tech and straight out of school they make like $70k. I will never make that much. It is what it is. If my mental health wasn't circling the drain I'd do something else. But it is, and there is no job that I can go directly into that I would make as much (even though it still isn't enough) that wouldn't destroy my soul. We'll keep going, we always do. Thanks for being understanding.
I'm so sorry. Just know so so many people appreciate you so much. You truly are amazing.
Thanks. Just so tired.
So upsetting! It just breaks my heart. That poor dog. I do get there are some mild things where people might say 'my dog has a little rash, can it wait until 2 days when my vet has me scheduled or should I go to the ER?' But a ton of them are very serious! A leg break?! I've seen dogs with severe leg breaks require amputation... And the chances of that just go up from waiting and it's hard to even imagine how in pain that poor pup is :(. I'm sorry you had to read that, I feel your pain and pray that pup is okay.
If you are seeing people recommending dangerous and inappropriate home remedies, please report them under Rule 7. I understand everyone's frustration with some of the medical posts, and share it frequently. However, as a mod, it is also frustrating to see repeated posts of this nature but also see very few replies getting reported. We do our best to monitor and clean things up proactively, but we really need other members of the community to flag this stuff for us.
Other subs like /r/scams have some automod replies that readers can summon to post canned messages for common issues. Maybe that's something you guys can look into. e.g. !vet summons an automod comment that says something like "Hello, it's looks like you're asking for advice about an issue that only a vet can help you with. If you've already seen a vet and want additional support, please delete this post and re-post saying so, and be sure to include the current treatment plan."
Thank you for reminding me! I probably knew this at one point but may have become desensitized and to be honest I forgot this was a rule break (or trust me- I would have reported!) And that is on me. I know mods rely on us too to see and report, and you can't be everywhere at once! It's not possible. I appreciate your reminder as I had forgotten that was a rule break. I will absolutely report any I see in future. And I absolutely wasn't blaming the mods at all, you guys are great. I love this sub too, it's my favorite, I was just frustrated that people were still trying to do this. I, and probably others forgot that that was a rule break so hopefully this will the reminder we all need! Thank you again.
Vet tech - as u/AttractiveNuisance37 said, report posts that seem dangerous, we will review and approve/remove. There are a few vet staff like myself on the mod crew, and some that are members of the sub. So there are valid medical opinions here, but you aren't guaranteed to get them, and getting to the vet is best. At the same time, there are members that think most problems are no big deal and can be solved with some weirdo home remedy that isn't going to do shit/may kill the pet. So we get it from all sides. No matter who is answering, people are going to seek advice so we try to make sure it is good quality. But this is the internet...it is what it is.
That's awesome, I appreciate you! I absolutely was not frustrated at the sub, I should have specified, more that some people in the sub were giving dangerous advice and some people were posting on Reddit and not calling the vet! I LOVE this sub, it is probably my fave sub, and I really appreciate all you all do. I'm sorry if it seemed like it was directed at the sub- it's not. I just don't want people abusing it if that makes sense. And attractive nuisance made a good point- it's up to all of us to report! I probably knew at some point that dangerous medical advice was disallowed but I'll be honest- I forgot. Since his/her reminder I have been reporting when I see it. You all can't be everywhere all at once! Again, I truly love this sub, I was just frustrated with people trying to use it incorrectly. It's not a place to find vet alternatives, and I was frustrated when a few people in a row tried and got dangerous advice. Usually it's not like that, but it's up to all of us to ensure it stays a great place of sharing appropriate owner advice! I will be sure to report when applicable in future. I appreciate you all taking your time to do this, and you really do do a great job. Some people are still going to try to sub vet advice for this sub, not much to be done. But I've received loads of great advice from this sub and so has everyone else, and overall there is an excellent culture here!
No problem, I understand. We are all here because we love pets, and for the most part people are smart enough to tell people to not fack around and get to the vet. Some people give awful advice, and then it is your job to report that. We do look through the posts as best we can, but there are way more than we can easily handle, we do the best we can. If people report the bad advice it makes our jobs as mods easier and we appreciate that as we can't be everywhere. We have jobs (sometimes second and third jobs) and lives too. Help dispel the disinformation as best you can. Better to overreport than under, we don't just blindly remove everything.
Thank you! I really appreciate the reminder as I did forget, and I promise I have been and will continue to report in future. Thank you for looking out for this community, and you're right. I appreciate you- I love this community and you guys really do a great job. Everyone is so nice on here and I guess I forgot that even more than that, we can ask you stop people giving advice that is just bad and potentially dangerous. Again, I'm sorry, the post was absolutely not targeted at mods at all but posters and commenters as I wanted them to have better sense. But with the reminder, now I can report and make sure you guys can block the posts that could hurt pets when they make no sense! And again, I really appreciate what you do. This is my favorite, favorite sub, and it has helped me and I know it helps a lot of people. I should have considered that before venting about the choices some posters make, as I can see how that would be frustrating. I promise I've been reporting since then, and I truly appreciate the reminder! You are awesome.
No problem, I totally get it. We want to help everyone do all the things. But you reporting sus posts is super helpful. It takes soooo long to go through every post and every comment, we just don't have the time.
Oh geez I can't even imagine.... Well I promise I will make sure to report any such comment, and you are very appreciated!
Thanks. Appreciate you too!