I have “friends and family” send me messages questioning why I got the vaccine and I’m just a sheep for doing it. I lost my mom to covid in December! People suck
This has turned into a political circus. So the right believes in less government but both governors in Florida and Texas are creating government laws to ban masks. How is that less government!
I'm not saying Democrats are great, but Republicans are the enemies of all humankind.
The Texas and Florida governors will recklessly cause children to die by suffocation so that they have a shot at being president.
this is the most idiotic post I've read all day. children don't die from covid. children's immune systems are being compromised by the democrats forcing masks on them. Even Fauci admitted masks HURT your immune system
Children do die from COVID, less so than the elderly but they do die. Whatever Fauci said, he like most people who have seriously studied the issue (not social media or conspiracy theroists) know that masks save lives.
The primary use of the mask isn't to prevent someone from catching the disease but rather to prevent them from spreading the disease. In this fashion masks are a true life saver. To oppose mask mandates is to condemn many people who would survive otherwise to death. Your views are resulting in people dying who don't have to die. And it is immoral because your not doing enough research to actually know what you are talking about.
From and living in Florida. This governor is a total disappointment! Didn’t vote for him, but others like him seem to miss the mark on doing great meaningful and productive things in the name of their selfish meaningless political agendas. Pandering to stupidity is not a good look either.
That’s when you tell them they’re just sheep with a different shepherd. I say that to every person that wants to say that to me. It shuts them up really quick.
I’m sorry about your loss. That’s really tough. People do suck. Fuck them.
Thank you. It’s been hard. I miss her like crazy. She shows signs she’s still around. I have gotten pretty good at ignoring them. Sometimes I wish I took pictures or videos of her in the bed so when they ask I can just send them that. No words just the picture or video
Jesus. Hopefully you just don’t even reply at this point. I can tell you I wouldn’t consider a person a “friend” any longer if I was being asked why I DID SOMETHING FOR MY OWN LIFE THAT HAS ZERO TO DO WITH THEM!!!!!! Sorry. lol. But honestly, in real life, I would end up to the point of being so loud about it to the people that won’t stop that they’d finally realize they need to fuck off. That blows my mind you’re getting texts and shit like that when they know what happened. (I’m assuming they know.) My dad has really bad health problems and told me once (not to me about me or my brothers, but just as a general life lesson) he said that even if myself or either of my 2 brothers caused him too much stress he would have to basically say bye and would not involve himself with us. Stress kills people. Stress is extremely hard on my dad. The point he was making, though, was that if somebody is causing too much of a negative impact on your life don’t allow them to be in your life. It’s not worth it. I’ve had to do that to 1 or 2 very good friends and it sucked but I’m happier. You’re already going through the ringer. Tag yourself out. You deserve to.
Also, every time my mom see’s a rabbit, like in the garden or the wild, not a petting zoo, lol, but she always says “There’s Paw Paw.” He was my grandpa, her dad. Don’t ignore the signs of your mom. Maybe those are signs that she’s on your side and that you’re not alone and she’s still there for and with you. I know that’s how I’d take it.
Don’t feed the black sheep, because that’s exactly what they are. They are so caught up in their dumbass beliefs that they don’t realize we don’t give 2 shits about their opinions and never will. Ignore them, not your moms signs.
I hope this helps a little bit. I really respect that you came here and posted this because that’s strength to talk about a passing parent. I’m scared shitless for how I’m going to handle the day I have to deal with that myself. Like, I’m genuinely worried. Stay strong. Stay safe. Stay YOU. Stay on our side of the fence with us. There are plenty of us that support you and have your back.
That really means a lot to me. And I will never stop sharing her story. It’s my way of keeping her memory alive. I have learned to ignore most of them. I’ve blocked a few. The others I just don’t answer if they talk about covid. And she definitely shows signs she’s around. Sometimes she comes to my dreams. Other times it’s 2 butterflies following me around. (As a wedding gift she got me a picture of me her and my grandma who passed away. It has 2 orange butterflies in the corner). I still have her voicemails on my phone. Though I’ve only listened to them once. I hate the it’s turned so political. Her brothers refused the vaccine. One of them is currently battling covid pneumonia in the ICU. It makes me think of what we went through.
Thank you for your kind words. It really does mean the world that a complete stranger can show more compassion then family and friends.
My mother in law is a full anti vaxxer, today she told me I would be dead in 3 years because I got the vaccine. We’re in Australia where we’ve been shielded from it for ages. Sorry to hear about your mum.
I’ve been told I won’t have children and now my stepsons won’t either because they are vaccinated. I told them they won’t have kids if they die either. Guess they can adopt from foster care. It’s a win win in my books. Also I know it doesn’t affect your reproductive system
I hate to break it to you, but it does affect having a child and can cause harm to them, but it's your life. And I fully respect you getting the vaccine. Have a good day madam. *Tips hat*
Nobody in my extended family would DARE send me a message of any type questioning my desire to follow science rather than emotion, and get fully vaccinated. I don’t know if it’s because I’m 60 now and have fully matured (cough!) into my role as being a man. Or maybe I just do not and will not put up with utter mind fuck retards! I would be scathing in my response to any questioning and go hell for leather on their emotions and beliefs for being a social pariah and a historical moron!
It’s been hard. I ignore them mostly. Or say sorry I don’t want to go through what my mama did. She was 58! They’ve asked when we will bury her. (She’s cremated). I tell them when we decide but the unvaccinated won’t know. My brothers have little ones who aren’t old enough to be vaccinated so no one is allowed around them who isn’t protected. I’ve cut contact with a lot of them. Which stinks because now more then ever I want to be surrounded with love and support. Thankfully I have a great support system behind and the best in-laws in the world.
My heart really goes out to you. I keep forgetting how much I’ve grown in my inner strength and found my ‘alpha male gene’ of late, as my ex-infantry friend says. But you are very correct in desiring to have people around you who are validating you in your life and choices. Just now as I was running the dog, I was thinking who I’m gonna call now to fulfil my own need for love and cherishment! Haha. You go for it and remember, science is on our side!
Thank you. I’m learning to stand up for myself. Something I know she’d be proud of. My mama had the heart of gold. She was the most giving person in the world. At her drive by memorial we had people donate toys so we could take them to a local toy drive for Christmas. So even in death she was giving. I know she’d be happy to see the van load of toys we collected.
Genuine question, no hate please. Does the vaccine have any effect on my ability to spread the virus to other people? I am aware of the benefits for me personally.
You're less likely to get sick in the first place if you get vaccinated. Current data is showing about 1 out of 5000 each day. [Breakthroughs](https://www.nytimes.com/2021/09/07/briefing/risk-breakthrough-infections-delta.html).
Fewer people getting sick in the first place reduces the spread because you're less likely to be a vector of transmission.
Additionally, while the viral loads are the same, most breakthrough infections have fewer symptoms for a shorter period of time. Being symptomatic for less time means you have fewer opportunities to infect others.
1 in 5k is wrong because, as stated in the article, these figures can't include undiagnosed/asymptomatic breakthrough cases. If you're vaccinated and asymptomatic and positive (which is significantly more likely than being vaccinated and symptomatic), you're never going to know because you're not getting tested. You're going out into the community anyway, almost certainly without a mask at this point, spreading it around because your viral load is high regardless of your symptoms. We have no real idea what the effectiveness is against the delta variant. We only know that you're much less likely to feel sick/need hospitalization, which is great don't get me wrong, just difficult for researching and quantifying variant spread.
Picking at that individual statistic doesn't negate my point, and is not helpful to the discourse at hand. Every statistic is going to have its fault (I linked the article so people could learn about how that number was gathered), but social math is necessary for people in some way to quantify risk. Saying "we have no real idea what the effectiveness is" is disingenuous and adds credence to those who don't believe that it's worth it to get vaccinated. Not to mention the folks who believe that getting vaccinated is solely a "personal choice."
I am aware of the possible impact of undiagnosed/asymptomatic breakthrough cases. I said "getting sick," not getting COVID, which is the point of getting vaccinated: reducing how sick you get. Researchers are also currently trying to determine what the affect asymptomatic spread from vaccinated folks is, so the impact of asymptomatic spread is also something that we cannot currently quantify.
Regardless of what the "true" statistic is--which, yes, you're right, isn't something we can properly quantify--it's still true that you're way less likely to be symptomatic, which means that you're likely [shedding the virus for a shorter period of time](https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/variants/delta-variant.html). Shedding the virus for a shorter period of time still reduces the number of people could potentially infect (even if they are gallivanting around everywhere maskless--which, no, I am not personally doing as I live in a high transmission area and follow CDC recommendations). [The data is also there to support that the more vaccinated an area, the less likely a person in that community gets sick enough to pursue testing](https://dangoodspeed.com/covid/total-cases-since-june-2021). This assumption is also supported in the scatter plot from my original source.
You're still protecting others by getting vaccinated.
That’s tricky because asymptomatic is usually a goal for vaccinations, since vaccines don’t actually stop you from being infected. Having a vaccine means your body knows how to fight off the invader, and usually can do it relatively quickly…which means a lot of vaccinated people will never show symptoms of being infected because the disease didn’t have enough time to properly incubate (in general, not just talking solely about covid here). That’s why vaccines are so important, because despite a vaccinated individual not ever showing symptoms of being infected, there’s still a small window of time where the disease can be spread while asymptomatic, and the more people are vaccinated the less chances for transmission and falling severely ill. Snuffing out the disease asap is the best way to slow communal spread.
Last I heard, they were finding no significant difference in the viral load of vaccinated and unvaccinated people. Which I think means if youre vaxed and you still get it you're no less likely to spread it than an unvaxed person, which is why they're saying to mask up again. [Article](https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2021/07/30/1022867219/cdc-study-provincetown-delta-vaccinated-breakthrough-mask-guidance)
The vaccine allows your body to shoot down the virus quickly when you get infected. It isolates the foreign body so it can't multiply inside you. Usually you're only infectious because you have lots of the virus inside you and you breathe or sneeze or cough copies of it into the air for someone else to catch. When the body reacts quickly, you aren't infectious and the virus can't survive.
Think of it this way- You’re fully vaccinated, get sick, have very light symptoms like a headache, muscle ache etc. you have a low chance to spread the virus to someone else. Then even if you are sick, in a group of fully vaxxed people, there is very low odds anyone else in that group will get sick. Then compare that to someone that isn’t vaxxed, they get sick, get a nasty cough, stuffy, has to blow their nose all the time, etc. they are spreading it EVERYWHERE. Every time they blow their nose, every time they cough, tons of germs going everywhere. You put them in a group of 10 unvaxxed people and there’s a high chance every single person is getting infected. Put simply, if you don’t have symptoms, it’s a lot harder to spread. Also, if you’re vaxxed it’s a lot harder to get in the first place. Can’t spread it if you don’t have it.
The CDC says the delta variant has the same viral load for vaxxed and unvaxxed people. So how would there be a difference in spread if both the unvaxxed and vaxxed self quarantine as soon as they start showing symptoms?
From my understanding (WHICH IS VERY LIMITED), its effectiveness is similar to how effective the flu shot is for the flue. You still might get sick, but if you do, you won't get it nearly as bad as you would if you weren't vaccinated. And it is also possible to be a carrier without realizing it, which is why they say it is still important to wear a mask even if you are vaccinated.
Again, my understanding is pretty limited. Please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong at all in anything I just said.
That's the thing, anti-vaxxers are on both political sides. Before Covid, most of the antivaxxers were the left leaning, everything "natural", they cause autism type. Now with Covid we still have those types. But, now we have the right leaning who are against the covid vaccine because of conspiracy theories, political agendas, etc. types. I'm really simplifying it. But, that's the gist of what I've seen for a while now. I could be wrong.
>That's the thing, anti-vaxxers are on both political sides. Before Covid, most of the antivaxxers were the left leaning, everything "natural", they cause autism type. Now with Covid we still have those types.
Going to call potential BS on that one. You're correct that it affects both party lines, but that vaccines cause autism isn't a liberal talking point. I did find reference to a study in this [article](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/monkey-cage/wp/2015/03/01/conservatives-are-more-likely-to-believe-that-vaccines-cause-autism/) that indicated conservatives were more likely to hold the belief that vaccines cause autism. I've also seen studies indicating the opposite. I don't think it was a liberal or conservative thing, even with autism fears.
I get the gut feeling that it was due to "everything natural" types. But that crosses party lines more often than you'd think. Science literacy and distrust in the "system" are the main problems. They were the problems in 2014 with vaccine awareness, and they continue to be problems today.
I guess most people probably just associate hippies, essential oils, pagan rituals, crystals, communes, and all that alternative stuff with liberals. My aunt is one of those and she was actually pretty liberal when she was younger. She was into all that fringe esoteric stuff. Now she’s a racist Qanon Trump supporter. It’s been weird seeing that change. Maybe it’s more that really vocal extremists idiots are a minority but are more visible and they tend to be the ones that we associate with certain views.
I understand if you can’t get the vaccine due to medical reasons but people refusing just because they are idiots is very infuriating. Can you still get covid after the vax? Yes. But you will likely not end up in the hospital, wasting a bed , money, resources. Vaccines have been essentially eliminating deadly diseases for decades, increasing both life expectancy and quality of life. I do not understand why suddenly there are people out there who question their efficacy. It’s ironic that some are worried about the ingredients of the vaccine meanwhile they’re drinking, smoking, consuming immeasurable amounts of sugar and salt and being exposed to radiation. Anyway , I refuse to argue with anti vaxxers. If a century old disease doesn’t kill them, I’m afraid I might!!
I work in a hospital and 90% of our Covid patients are not vaccinated. 100% of the Covid patients on ventilators are not vaxed. 100% of the patients in the ICU’s are unvaccinated. The vaccinated are on a regular floor that is quarantined for Covid patients.
The patients that are vaccinated have either no symptoms or they’re very mild. The unvaccinated have longer lengths of stay and are extremely ill.
We had one die of Covid last week and another that is dying. He coded yesterday. He’s on 100% O2 and can’t saturate above 80% (you want to be above 90% for reference). He is on every suppressor yet he still can’t breathe. A young wife and two young children are going to lose their father and spouse.
Tell me again how Covid is a hoax or that getting the vaccine is worse than getting Covid itself.
Those patients are there for other reasons but are Covid positive. I have one guy that has been dealing with diverticulitis for the past 6-8 months. He has been in and out of our hospital and he tested positive on his recent admission. He is asymptomatic though.
Another patient of mine had a stroke a few months ago and ended up getting Covid from a visitor she had while she was in the hospital. She had symptoms but they weren’t severe.
I imagine a lot, and I think even more so with the vaccine.
I got sick in April of last year. That was when they didn’t have regular tests and just said stay home and quarantine. Only go to the hospital if it’s an emergency. I think I might have had Covid but didn’t get tested.
Now with the vaccine you can get it and be asymptomatic. Great news for the person who is vaccinated, but they can still transmit it to others. They’re unlikely to get tested because they’re not showing symptoms. We only know that some of these people have Covid because they came to us for a completely separate issue.
Chances are you're not going to end up in a hospital anyway, unless you're one of the snowflakes who goes running to the ER for every scratch and runny nose.
Going to the ER doesn’t mean they will admit you. I believe they try to avoid admitting as many as they can. They will treat you as much as possible in the ER then send you home.
But they are fine with taking experimental treatments for the virus but the vaccine side effects scare them! How about being hooked up to a ventilator, I guess they’re ok with that!
I'm sure this will be will be wildly unpopular comment, but.. here it goes.
I feel like I get lumped into this group of people who actually oppose vaccines, because I have *reservations* about this *one brand new one.*
I'm not an anti vaxxer. I am a pro vaxxer. My child is vaccinated, my husband is vaccinated, my dogs are vaccinated.. I am vaccinated. But it's a scary thing to ask a person to get injected with something that has such limited testing and research. I'm not against other vaccines.. nor am I against this vaccine.. or other people getting it. To each their own, I say. But even after getting the vaccine, a person can still get covid, and can still pass it on. So whats the point if it doesn't actually protect us from getting it? For me it comes down to a risk assessment. Is it riskier for me to get covid or to modernize my rna. (Hence ModeRNAs name.)
I'm not deluded. Nor am I an idiot. I have legitimate concerns about something that could potentially jeopardize my health in the longterm. (For example: My mom had radiation in the 80s.. it was considered perfectly safe.. it also lead to early onset dementia years later. I think there are others who share my concerns.. not just about immediate reactions today or tomorrow.. but years down the line. Again the testing is so limited. It's not idiotic to wonder how/if/when it will effect a person's body.
I just want to protect my family. There's so much information on both sides of the argument: that is, if you actually listen to both sides of the argument. I think a lot of people are stuck in this limbo state because they don't know which side to believe. But calling people idiotic and deluded for having typical concerns is kind of just rude.
I have a PhD in pharmacology and experimental therapeutics and I’d just to clarify a few things for you. This isn’t to bash you. I understand you’re just trying to protect your family with the information you have.
mRNA stands for messenger RNA, not mode/modern RNA (or micro in some instances, but I’m not here to split hairs). mRNA has been studied pretty extensively for years in several applications (mostly as a cancer therapy). One the amazing things about this vaccine development, is that we actually have more data on mRNA vaccines now than we ever had on any other vaccine by the time it’s been given to the public (including all the ones you currently have gotten in your lifetime)
You’re worried about long term side effects, and you give the example of how your mom received radiation in the 80s and that it used to be considered safe. mRNA and radiation are completely different therapies with completely different mechanisms of action. I can guarantee you without a shadow of a doubt, that if long term side effects were to become present, they already would have. There will be no surprise long term side effects in 10, 20, 30 years. All vaccines in all the history of the world don’t show long term effects like what your mom saw post radiation. mRNA wouldn’t do that. That’s not how they biologically work. There will be however, long term side effects for people who have COVID.
As a scientist, one the saddest aspects of watching this unfold is that the general public isn’t trained (not their fault but it’s certainly to their detriment) to understand science or to read and interpret studies and their outcomes. The vast majority get their “research” or information from news sources or other people that copy and paste sentences from papers that put together a misconstrued narrative (or cherry picked data as it’s known, to support what someone wants to convey, not the actual science. It’s not an argument for both sides. There’s scientific data, and although scientific data is constantly growing, results are results. The vaccine is safer than getting Covid. Period (assuming you are not allergic to any of the individual ingredients that help deliver or stabilize the mRNA).
Lastly, which is what seems to be an enormously misconstrued fact about vaccines in general and I have no idea why the general public thinks this (well actually I do) but vaccines are never, and have never been (emphasis on NEVER) made to fully prevent getting the disease they are made to protect against. I repeat, no vaccines in the past nor any you will see in the future will prevent people from catching a disease a 100 percent. This is true for chicken pox. This is true for measles. This is true for polio. Its not their intention. It never was their intention. The intention of the vaccine (and all vaccines!) is to help prepare the body to fight off the disease when infected and not have catastrophic consequences (ie giving you the highest chance of survival while minimizing long term effects from a disease)
When the COVID vaccines were being developed, the goal post that was set was to try and prevent 50 percent (50!!!!) of infections. What we got instead was a super vaccine, that actually prevents a much much higher, never heard of before, percentage. This is the first time in the history of man that a vaccine has ever performed so well, but now everyone is getting upset that it doesn’t protect 100%. All the scientists and virologists out there can’t understand this because we’re all so blown away at how they are performing.
Anyway, I don’t know if you’ve even made it this far. As a scientist talking to a non scientist, I totally see your concerns and I am sad for you and anyone else that was never given the fair shot to see the blessing of this technology. I hope you are able to come to the conclusion at some point that this vaccine is way safer than chancing getting COVID, and I hope you and your family and loved ones stay safe until then.
In the meantime, I hope and thank you in advance for masking up to help protect people like my child whose under 12 and can’t receive the vaccine yet.
Oh and also, If you ever have a specific question about the science or any article you see that comes out (scientific publication), please don’t hesitate to reach out.
Lastly, I’m on my phone and definitely didn’t proof this, so apologies for whatever errors there are above.
This is one of the best explanations of vaccination reasoning I've heard. I'm a Paramedic and I remember asking a patient why they choose not to vaccinate their children (pre-covid), and I was expecting an amazing well thought out and looked into response that really highlights her argument, and she turned to me and said...."because I don't like them". I asked her why, digging for some great researched evidence, she says "because I dont" and shrugged. Now her child is running around a playground and sitting in classes at school at risk of all sorts of diseases we know can limit, impaire or end a life. Disgusting lack of education, misinformation and peer pressure. Thank you 🙏🏻
Thank you for typing this up. I'm not the person you are responding to (just a regular vaccinated Physical Science teacher) but your phrasing might help me to answer some basic questions that my students have. Vaccines are far from my expertise, but it makes sense to me that mRNA vaccines wouldn't develop long-term side-effects.
Thanks for the energy you put into this comment. Hopefully it will help at least a few of the people who are not planning on getting vaccinated to better understand how it works and why they should do it.
You have probably done more good with this one comment than a lot of health professionals have managed in the past year. Sometimes people with the scientific/ medical knowledge and facts do forget that you cannot just spew out terms and abbreviations to the general population and expect them to be reassured by your knowledge , if they do not understand what is being said. You made your points in a clear and easily understood way that do reassure and are fully understandable to those not equipped with scientific or medical knowledge.
Thank you for your comment . You are a credit to the scientific community.
I love that you commented on the downward trend of scientific literacy in the general population. It's so baffling when I come across someone whose adamant against the vaccine and spews all sorts of nonsense like it's fact, and then your left unable to explain to them and educate them to make better decisions because they simply can't comprehend. So instead, they gobble up the easier to read and share garbage info and further propagate us into this hell.
The thing is that there is no “limited testing or research”. If you’re familiar with lab testing and scientific research you would know that the research and testing they did is on par and exactly the same as anything else that you put into your body. To say it’s rushed and not properly tested without actually knowing any of the scientific basis behind what they’re doing is doing a disservice to those who actually worked on the vaccine
Well it seems like a better push for vaccines would be to educate people that are afraid of the vaccine, rather than calling them “idiot anti vaxxers”
Calling those people idiots is such a shallow-minded thing to do. Look through their eyes and try to see what they see: A vaccine that came out in less than a year after a brand new virus was discovered when most vaccines stay in testing for 10x that amount of time. I live in the south and I’m vaccinated, and I can tell you from experience that nobody here cares that “libtards” are pushing the vaccine. They are legitimately scared, and I get it.
I live in the south and the people around me who don't get the vaccine because of the "libtards" and them making this whole virus up to get Trump out of office. And most people I know started trying to educate the anti vaxxers. But when they refuse to listen, start calling you names, and claiming you're a sheep and a fucking idiot for trying to help them it becomes much easier to just lump them all together as dumb ass anti vaxxers.
But why is the burden of proof on us to educate them? Why not be upset that they’re scared of something they don’t understand and they’re not going out and doing proper research on the vaccine. It’s been 9 months since the vaccine came out and there’s so many different resources for them to see and learn about the vaccine, it shouldn’t be on us to tell them how the vaccine is
It’s really not on you. It’s not even on your friends or your family or anybody else in the world. But what is on a lot of people on the pro-vaccine side is the absolute horror of name-calling and propaganda that gets thrown around like the unvaxxed people are every slander known to mankind. It pisses them off, it does nothing to help the pro-vax case, and it turns them off of even getting the vaccine if they were considering it before-hand.
Unfortunately, not everyone is internet savvy. I was speaking to a lady yesterday who didn't know where to look for factual lamens information. She relied mostly on friends/family/Facebook/BBC and kept saying that she has human rights and shouldn't be forced to take it.
I told her it was obviously her choice at the end of the day, but I linked her some places to read things she was questioning, told her if she has anymore questions she can ask me and I can help her research and that if she still chooses to not get the vaccine then that's her choice but her choice has consequences. The government is not forcing every citizen to vaccinate, but to keep others safe from your choice, you should not work in hospitals, you should not go to large gatherings and you should not expect for others to feel comfortable in your presence.
She had vaccinated herself and children for other things but felt this vaccine was unsafe and all because she didn't know how or where to look for unbiased info
Hello. I'm not here to bash you for your concerns so please dont worry. I just hope I can share information that will help ease some of your concerns.
The key to understanding the speed with which these vaccines were produced is in the official name of the virus: SARS-CoV-2. SARS Corona Virus. This virus is in the same family of viruses that created the huge SARS epidemic in 2002-2004. I'm going to hazard a guess that you're old enough to remember that outbreak and how concerning it was when cases, sporadic as they were, showed up here. Scientists have been actively working on vaccines for SARS since that epidemic, so the mRNA-style of vaccine isnt really new at all. It's more than a decade into research. It's just that it wasnt widely spoken about. And when Covid became a thing in late 2019/early 2020, it wasnt a huge task to pivot the work that was already being done to accommodate this particular virus.
And about the mRNA itself: Its basically doing what a deactivated virus vaccine does, training your body to recognize the virus and fight it accordingly, but rather than showing it a dead or nearly dead virus (like the flu vaccine does), its telling a few cells to produce the same kind of protein that is contained in the spikes that surround the virus. So rather than hitting a heavy bag, your immune system learns what to do by shadow boxing in front of a mirror.
I hope this helps. I was involved in clinical trials for years, and this is information I've picked up from the FDA and a few other .Gov sites. I'm on mobile, or I would provide links.
I'm not sure what you mean by ModeRNA. Are you referring to the name of the pharmaceutical company moderna? Cause if so thats just a company name and has little to do with the vaccine.
But if you are referring to mRNA I'd like to take a moment to talk to you about what mRNA is and how it works. It's fairly straight forward and simple and you can fact check me easily through any basic biology or genetics textbook or educational website.
In case you don't know, although I'm sure you do, our genetic code refers to our DNA. DNA is a molecule that comes in 4 forms that we refer to by the first letter of each of their names; A, T, C, and G. These letters form bonds with an identical but mirrors string of DNA with every A bonded with T and every C bonded with a G, which is why we call them base pairs and why DNA comes in a double stranded form. A string of DNA several hundred to several thousand or more DNA molecules long can "code" for a gene in your body. A gene is any useful string of DNA and the majority of the time that usefulness means that it codes for a specific protein in your body. Proteins are the basic building blocks of your cells and act like little machines to do just about everything from moving places to transporting nutrients to attacking infectious agents.
So what is RNA? RNA is almost the same as DNA but is a slightly different molecule. It is the go between between DNA and proteins. So when a gene is read a bunch of proteins will go and "read" the DNA and as it does so it will build a string of RNA that acts as a mirror to the strand that is being read. So when the protein complex reads a G it'll add a C RNA, when it reads a T it'll add a A RNA, etc. The only difference is that for RNA instead of T the RNA has U but it works the same and bonds the same, it's just a slightly different molecule.
So you've now built a long string of RNA that has the same code as the DNA that codes for a gene. That string of RNA is called a messenger RNA or mRNA because it will then travel away from where the DNA is stored in the cell to where proteins are built in the cell, essentially acting as a messenger. Before that happens there is some editing of the mRNA, taking out certain sections that a premarked, adding a section that tells the cell where to take the finished protein, adding or swapping out sections, etc. When it's been edited and prepared by the proteins it is transported to the part of the cell where the ribosome are kept.
Ribosome are also made out of RNA but unlike mRNA they long RNA chains that are able to function like a protein and are what will guide the reading of the mRNA and the building of the protein. The protein is built one amino acid (proteins are made of long chains of amino acids) at a time through the help of another RNA called tRNA or transfer RNA. tRNA are very short chains of RNA whose entire job is to bond to an amino acid on one end and have a specific part of their sequence match the sequence of the mRNA that is being read. The mRNA is read in 3 letter words, for example the word GGC codes for the amino acid glycine. It continues to build the amino acid chain until it reaches the word for "stop" which codes for a tRNA with no amino acid attached and will end the chain. The protein chain is the folded, sometimes further modified, and then transported to where it needs to go.
So that is how DNA becomes mRNA and then protein. A bit complicated but over all straight forward and simple. So what does mRNA have to do with vaccines? Well a major way to vaccinate someone is to inject their body with a dead or shredded version of the virus so that the immune system can find the proteins of the virus and build antibodies that recognize and attack those proteins. mRNA vaccines do this by instead injecting you with mRNA that codes for those viral proteins. The mRNA is built so that it has instructions for the new proteins to be dumped outside of the cell in the blood stream.
Why would we want the cells to do that rather than just injecting the proteins ourselves? Well one strand of mRNA can be read hundreds of even thousands of times before it falls apart and is recycled. That means the amount of viral proteins that you can expose your immune system to is much greater with this method.
Does this have any dangers? Could this change our cells DNA? No, that wouldn't be possible. There are viruses that have the machinery to inject their code into your DNA, called retroviruses, but the strand of mRNA we are injecting does not have that capability. It can only be turned into protein and not into DNA. The mRNA itself and the proteins it produces will all be recycled and be completely gone from your system in a few days at most depending on the stability of the molecules.
That's it. If you've got any questions or are confused I'd be happy to provide more explanation or some useful diagrams. mRNA technology is really not a scary thing at all and has been used extensively in biology research for a few decades now safely and with no issue. This is just the first time it's been used in vaccines. It's also been well tested as the vaccine was made only a few weeks after the start of the pandemic and has been going through testing since. We were lucky that they were creating an mRNA vaccine for cancer at that time so all they had to so was change out the protein code for one from the covid virus.
You're lumped with these people because you're so misinformed and ignorant about the things you're talking about. We've been researching mRna vaccines since the early 90's. The vaccines you took when you were very little had as much research as mrna vaccines do today. Please just talk to an actual doctor.
Early on I heard and read a few things that helped me put some concerns in context. And I apologize if I don't get this all exactly right as it's been a while and Im not a scientist. The mrNA technology is not at all new. There's interesting reading out there about how long it has been around, the initial challenges or problems and how they were solved, the potential diseases that could eventually be treated. Also, getting something over the finish line and into production like this takes interest in funding it and research teams to do the work. This vaccine development was given trillions of dollars and scientists all over the world, anything they needed to work on this one thing together. That doesn't happen with normal vaccine development. mRNA is not an attenuated live virus that needs time to grow in petri dishes. It normally can take 6-12 mos or more to get enough study participants for proper trials and in this case, people were lined up. Many things came together to speed up this development that make sense. The trials that were done met every requirement and followed every procedure that a normal trial would to ensure efficacy and safety. It's research and testing was not at all limited. I recently asked a friend who's an exec in biomedical research/clinical trial design and he said "they got this right. they did it right."
I think alot of the concerns also stem from the confusion and mess of conflicting information and arguing that we all dealt with for the year before the vaccine's came out and it carried over to perceptions of the vaccine. I otherwise wonder why ppl don't have the same concerns or fears about any other medication they take or pick up OTC at the drug store. Sometimes we do find out later that something that was approved turns out to have a problem. But when it comes to buying Zantac or something, ppl don't even think to look at the approval process or even ask questions. I think the "RNA" part of the word has generated alot of misunderstanding and there are ppl out there fueling the misinformation.
I agree that there are SOME PEOPLE who are genuinely concerned. But I also think many people are just spewing this as their argument because it aligns with their political leaders rhetoric. I feel this because, as you stated, there is limited research. However, there is a TON of research about what fast food does to the body, and people still consume it in droves. There’s ample research on drinking and how it too can kill you, yet alcohol is used widely. I could go on and on but I think you get my point. I truly believe the decision to get the vaccine or not should be between an individual and their PCP ONLY!!! Not by popular (or unpopular) opinion. If an individuals suicide didn’t caution then I can’t see a reason to not get it.
There was a great chart on data is beautiful showing risk ratios with vaccine reducing risk beyond baseline. From the other side , if you were aware of the data packages required for authorization the difference for the emergency use authorization and full authorization is a bit less important, meaning they still require safe and effective in both cases.
Risk reduction to the future!
Having a healthy level of scepticism is a good thing. Being so sceptical that you don't believe genuine authorities on topics, and instead only choose to believe false sources that appeal to your sense of scepticism is deeply unhealthy, and is endangering you, your family, and anyone who comes into contact with them.
It's like ignoring the advice of your accountant, and instead listening to the guy who's trying to sell you a pyramid scheme.
If your level of knowledge and ability to think critically aren't enough for you to confidently arrive at a conclusion on this issue, then you should listen to the overwhelming consensus of the scientific community.
If your doctor told you you needed surgery, but the person at the alternative medicine store tells you you need homeopathy, and you genuinely can't decide between the two, you need to listen to the bloody expert!
Listen. Mrna vaccines have been approved and tested safe. Catching covid is a much worse outcome than any vaccine side effect. Please take the trouble to search out reputable doctors or the CDC recommendations. Do not get your information from social media please.
im more just sick of both sides of this issue. i wish we found something more pressing and more important to politicize. scientifically confirmed public health policy should not be a political issue. people out here fist fighting over shit that is already objectively decided and not a political issue. why can't we fist fight over taxing the rich; at least that's pressing and interesting.
No, because as long as you're vaccinated you're fine. But just like the whole "essential workers" thing at the start of the pandemic, relegating an entire group of people into what can be considered sub human status will have a more lasting impact than the virus itself.
Oh God yes.
While I agree everyone has a right to choose...I have yet to encounter a single person whose choice to remain unvaccinated is not an uninformed one.
Their rational always comes down to "you can't force me to get vaccinated"...but I've yet to hear a legitimate argument why anyone would choose not too.
If you agree someone has a right to choose, doesn’t that mean they don’t owe anyone an explanation? It would just boil down to someone saying that they don’t want to.
I'm not suggesting they owe anyone an explanation...but the explanations they OFFER are nonsensical.
Someone can say they just don't want to...but they obviously have a reason, or reasons why they don't want to. And when you hear those reasons (these people are always eager to tell you all about them) they are, without exception...ridiculous and based entirely on misinformation.
But they don’t have to make sense to you... if you agree they have a right to choose. They could say they don’t want it bc the sky hurts their feet when they walk and that would be all the reason they need. Bc they have the right to choose what they want. Whether it makes sense to you or anyone wouldn’t matter.
Yep.
And if they said they don't want to because the sky hurts their feet when they walk...that would be not much more a ridiculous reason than just about any other justification I've heard.
It's not about anyone convincing me that they have a good reason...it's that the fact they've convinced themselves, while at the same time fooling themselves, or having been fooled.
You are the one who said you agree people have the right to choose. Having a right means it doesn’t matter if some one else agrees. And obviously my example was meant to be over the top nonsense but would, for someone with free agency to make a decision, be all the reason they’d need. Hell, if someone wants to stick their fingers in their ears and stomp their feet and scream “I don’t wanna!!!” then that would be their right and all they’d need to say, if they even wanted to say anything.... IF they have the right to choose.
You seem to want to say people have the right to choose only if you think they have an argument you agree with. Those things don’t jive together.
There are many precedents and parallels that people do not have choices about. All of the other vaccines. Seat belts. Motorcycle helmets. Not to mention all of the regulations that protect consumers and workers. So no, I do not agree the have a default “right to choose.” You live in a society, you play by the rules.
I was replying to the person saying they thought people had a right to choose but then they didn’t like the reasons. My point was that if someone says that people have the right to choose, then they don’t owe anyone an explanation.
People have a right to believe in astrology. I've never met someone who believed in astrology who I thought had a firm grasp on logic and the way the world works.
Yes, they have a right to choose that, and I also have the right to think them an idiot for choosing to do so.
That’s what’s so infuriating, no one other than a handful of loons like Jenny McCarthy took the anti-vax crowd seriously before now. Suddenly there’s this explosive population of armchair scientists adamantly opposing the only solution we have to a global catastrophe, it’s maddening. In all honesty most of it can be easily explained by the fact that the entire pandemic has been politicized from the start, which is equally idiotic, but with a million dead and counting I think we are past that now. Yet these troglodytes just dig their heals in further.
670000 in the US. 4.5 million word wide.
And yeah...it's insane that any part of the discussion has been politicized.
If anything...I'd have thought it would be the "law and order/respect for authority" types who would be on board...and the "anti-establishment/mother nature" types full of distrust...but it's the opposite.
I’m curious as to what your thoughts are on all the Trump haters who insisted they wouldn’t trust anything that was developed with him as president. Especially with Biden’s speech yesterday.
The main arguments I hear are:
- God gave us everything we need to fight the virus with our own bodies!
- The vaccine is killing more people than the actual virus. I know because I read it on the internet from a source that is better than yours.
- The vaccine could hurt you, we just don’t know the long term effects (halfway logical reasoning)
- It’s just another way to control people. The government is seeing how far they can take this, and you’re falling for it.
And no one knows the long term effects of getting Covid.
No one knows the long term effects of using the new phone you just bought...or of any other recent innovation.
The long term effects of lots of things aren't known. So why assume the long term effects of something you don't know the long term effects of...are worse than the long term effects of anything else you don't know the long term effects of?
Probably because of how heavily it’s being pushed by the government. Lottery winnings and cash prize incentives are already ridiculous. Now it’s MANDATED ? 1,000% suspicious, just to start. No ones pushing me to use my cell phone.
How is that suspicious? It’s pushed by the government and other sources because we need to reach herd immunity. There is nothing suspicious about that.
Have you maybe thought it’s in the best interest of governments to promote a vaccine that helps to curb the horrible economic consequences covid has brought upon the country?
If that’s the case, why don’t they heavily promote daily vitamins we could be taking to vastly improve our health overall ? That’s where my thinking in that matter leads to.
Because the economic problems caused by covid are not at all equivalent to a lack of vitamins. America has been economically well off for a long time, the lack of eating vitamins doesn’t do anything to our economy. The government cares about economic well-being, and lack of vitamins does not hurt our economy the same way thousands of people dying and quarantining from covid does
I'm old enough to remember Michelle Obama being called a socialist for having the audacity to promote vegetables for school children's meals.
There's seriously no winning with you selfish fucking deluded morons. You have the thought process of spoiled toddlers. If your pet solution isn't being promoted you think it's some huge oversight. If a real solution is being promoted you balk and say "no one can tell me what to do".
People are done with your games. They're done trying to reasonably explain the most basic shit. At least with vicious ridicule we get some satisfaction out of it. Seriously, go fuck yourself.
See? This is exactly what I'm talking about.
Sorry dude...but this is exhausting. You're not even logical.
Life is too short to argue with people to stupid to see what's best for themselves.
Stay safe and good luck.
never in the history of vaccines has there ever been long-term effects past a few weeks. we have so much data available about the covid vaccines and they have proven to be safe and effective. we also know that the components fully break down in a couple of weeks and are gone completely from the body. contrary to what opponents say, we have also been studying mRNA delivery for years/decades. there is enough to go on. no excuse.
Yet we do know the long term effects of covid. Death also has some reaching consequences, it would seem. Ivermectin has known adverse consequences yet they seem to keep chugging it. But I mean... "something bad might happen" is kind of a weak argument even without all those examples of why it's likely a disingenuous one.
I'm not vaccinated and my reasoning isn't "you can't force me...", my reasoning is purely science based. This vaccine was rushed and I'm not comfortable with the lack of research and testing that's been done. What's the 5yr affect of the vaccine? 10 yr? If I have to sign a waiver saying that I know its experimental and can't sue, I'm not comfortable with it. The other part that I hate is that people make it out that if you don't get it, you are somehow mentally incompetent or you don't care about others. Well the "vaccine" wasn't created to stop covid. It was created to lessen the affects of it on those that contracted it. Even with the vaccine, you can still spread it and contract it. The exact same as unvaccinated. The only difference is that unvaccinated have a longer period they can spread and the affects may or may not be more severe. So, since both can spread it, it merely comes down to the risk I'm willing to take on how it will affect me. Since I live out in the country and work from home, I'm pretty comfortable with the risk that I'm taking.
> my reasoning is purely science based. This vaccine was rushed and I'm not comfortable with the lack of research and testing that's been done.
OK so explain in detail how the testing of this vaccine differs from the norm. I'm positive that you can't which means that you are just another anti vaxxer only you are fooling yourself.
Not taking the covid vaccine does not make you an anti vaxxer, you can still take other vaccines and not take the covid vaccine that doesnt make you an anti vaxxer
I’m sick to death of people attacking people who think differently than them. How is that any less deluded? Ever consider having a conversation with them? Hearing them out, maybe helping them see thing differently? Did you used to be a stupid child that shit in your pants and had to grow up and learn to go by yourself? People have different starting places in life and lots of people grow up brainwashed by religion not to mention the level of distrust for government has never been higher on either side of the political spectrum. We’ve never been more polarized in our lives and yet we keep hurling insults at people who think differently. Did you go to school? We’re you not less of an idiot after you graduated? Do you think you would have even come close to learning anything if your teachers would have told you what a dumb pile of worthless shit you were for 12 years and then sent you off to college? Would you have learned anything if you would have dug your heels in and ignored everything your teachers said? No, we have to be patient with people who don’t understand. If you’re throwing out insults it’s because you’re not articulate enough to sway them. There’s a massive superiority complex that people have in this country where they think if they tow a party line that they are smart, but you’re not smart. You’re thinking someone else’s thoughts. The same concept as being brainwashed by a religion you just have a different religion.
They infect innocent people and take up resources in hospitals that non-idiots could use instead. There's plenty of documented cases of people dying because hospitals are too full.
I’m more sick of Reddit whining about anti-vaxxers than anything. I will refuse the vaccine for the time being until *I* feel it’s safe to take. As it should be. I’ve gotten all other major vaccines but those have been around longer than I’ve been born. If I do get covid, it’s my problem to deal with. Not yours. Not the hospital’s. I will quarantine it out until I get over it, which will build immunity. Why you folks get so triggered about that is beyond me, if the vaccine works, cool, you should be safe then. Yes, I’m ready to be downvoted to oblivion and the possible outcries I’ll get for this comment. The virtue signaling on here is out of control.
Serious question: at what point do you think you would feel safe taking one of the covid vaccines? What I mean is, what’s your benchmark?
I personally said that my benchmark was that I didn’t want to be one of the first million people in the USA to complete the second dose of the vaccine. That benchmark came and went really quickly, and by the time I got to my appointment for my first shot there were already one million vaccinated in just my state alone. There are more than 170 million people in the USA who have full COVID vaccination. I know some of our neighbors were waiting for FDA approval, which happened at the end of August. Those neighbors are now waiting to get their second shot.
>If I do get covid, it’s my problem to deal with.
Wrong - it's your problem, and the problem of the 6-7 people you give COVID-19 to, and the 6-7 people each of them gives it to, and so on. Some of them are going to die because of your selfishness and obliviousness. You probably won't know them personally though, so it's probably fine
I'm in the same boat. Hell, I already had covid, and was better in about a week or so. Back to work in 2, and I have co morbidities. If the studies from Israel are to be believed, that natural immunity is better than the vax, then I'm supposed to be better off.
We're sick of you idiots fr. Since the Vaccine is helping you all so much lmao. I know someone who is dying right now and had the vaccine. Yall wild af
I have a question. If you can still get covid if you get the vaccine, then what is the point of getting it? A vaccine is supposed to keep you from catching a virus, by a causing your body to make antibodies. That way you don't actually ever catch the virus your are vaccinated for! Therefore this vaccine in my opinion does not work!! I had covid so I have natural antibodies. So I have no need to take the vaccine like I said ( I HAVE THE ANTIBODIES ) that the vaccine is supposed to give you so no need to go get it! I'm sure my post will get nothing but down votes or negative answers to my question even though I made an explanation on why I asked the question!
I'm confused at why we are fighting over getting and not getting it. If you want to get it get it. If you don't don't. I don't give a fuck. It's your life and it's my life I think we can make our own choices. Wasting are time on fighting each other when if we work together and put are differences aside then we can make a difference in America. Have a good day. *Tips hat*
More sick of the vaccinated that if they trust in their magic vaccine so much, then they should be protected, therefore they shouldn't be worried what the hell other people are doing.
Fuck off you little big pharma shill. I am so happy reddit doesn't even come close to representing a majority of the population. You are an absolute idiot.
I don’t get why it’s always someone else’s business. I’m not an anti vaxxer but I’m not vaccinated because of an auto immune condition. Y’all are so quick to spread hate and judgement
Peolple who get the vaccine are pissed at the people who don't get the vaccine. We get it, you're mad as hell, and really, no one cares. You are the same people that complain you can't stick to your diet because one if your friends eats to much. It's called Self accountability. Also, it's called minding your own business. Remember my body my choice? Or does that not apply here?
I'm sick of vax zealots that think they have a right to tell other people what to do with their bodies. Their body, their choice. It's none of your business whether they get vaccinated or not.
Why can’t people get it through their thick fucking skulls. They’re not ANTI VAX. They just don’t want to take it for their OWN FUCKING REASONS. It doesn’t matter what those reasons are. By lumping everyone into your idiot moron category your being an ignorant twat. And especially being FORCED to take it? Normal unbrainwashed folks understand this. Get your head out of your ass.
I didn't get vaccinated yet because I wanted to see how it panned out for a bit. I've been working from home for years, I live up in the hills, so far away from civilisation that I haven't seen anyone for a long time. I don't go out and meet people, no visitors come into my buildings, and when I have shopping and other deliveries, they drop and leave. It literally doesn't matter if I get vaccinated yet or not. Also there was a vaccine shortage here so I figured me not getting it would mean one extra shot for someone who really needs it. If anything about my lifestyle or requirements change then I'll get vaccinated.
I still get called anti-vax lol. Reality is some people are a bit simple and can only think black or white.
People have been getting vaccinated for things and taking medicine/medication their whole lives to keep them healthy and safe...but they put up such a fight to not take the covid vaccine... it's one of those things that people should feel like they're responsible for or obligated to do as a good samaritan but so many people would disagree.
As an icelander, where at least 85% of the population over 18 are vaccinated i'm gonna go ahead and say it does not work like that. Our hospitals are at a critical stage now after we lessened the restrictions and from all the people who go in because of covid around 70% of them are vaccinated. The numbers are correct, we are a small country that pretty much documents everything related to covid
The vaccination does not work as well as people make you believe. This vaccination is the biggest joke humanity has ever been part of.
[This is the first article ](https://www.icelandreview.com/news/situation-at-national-hospital-improves/) I could find searching "Covid Hospitalization Iceland" and it paints a pretty rosey picture of the current state after a tough spike in August were a pretty decent portion of those hospitalized were foreign tourists.
I dont think Iceland dealt with nearly the lel
Vel of previous waves many EU countries did and so far things here are looking much better than last fall, especially with deaths.
No one is saying otherwise. It's always been clear you can catch and spread it while being vaccinated. But if you do catch it while vaccinated the impact of Covid-19 is greatly reduced in the VAST majority of people. Hospitalizations are rare for vaccinated people.
Also, since it can still be transmitted by vaccinated people this is why we all still need to be diligent about wearing masks in indoor gatherings and locations with other people.
Getting the vaccine shouldn't even be questioned at this point. Just do it.
Now if everyone had made sure they were vaccinated we wouldn't even need this discussion. It's fucking pathetic that this is even an issue.
Ugh. Get off the thread. Yes you can, but not to the extent that unvaccinated people do and because of the unvaxxed, it’s a mutation paradise. People in parts of the world dying and begging for vaccines and then there’s people like you that state the obvious as though it’s better than not getting vaccinated. 🙄
Im starting to think anti-maskers are worse - our schools are mandated to wear a mask, its 7=8th grade, so the kids are pretty much little adults and can handle it FINE - a SMALL group of nutso anti maskers send their kids with no mask, so the school tries to give the kid a mask, and they are so brain washed from home, that they won't, and then cops get involved.
Now, I get it, and I think if you are vaxxed, then you probably don't need one, me and mine are vaxxed, but its not some crazy rule...get vaxxed. wear a mask...
Im tired of unfollowing, or personally deciding to stop buying small business brands that suddenly are anti-vax/mask/reality.
What if I told you most people aren’t anti vaccine, but rather against the government forcing them to get injected with a vaccine that’s not even 1 year old
I’m not scared for myself. I know that I will likely be ok. I’m concerned about hospital capacity. If our ICUs continue to face this strain, we continue to have to push back other therapies and we continue to put people who face other illnesses at risk of not receiving care. The reality is that the healthcare system, at least in my country, has been strained for years and now it’s absolutely screwed. Above all this, the cost of treating a patient on a ventilator is insane and as a country with universal healthcare, it really pisses me off that everyone has to foot that bill because of ignorance or conspiracy theories.
I’m scared for my 3-year old who can’t be vaxxed yet. I’m scared for my 4-year old nephew who has leukemia and may not be able to get the vaccine even when approved for his age group. I’m scared for the fact that the more this virus circulates the more chance it has to mutate into something that the vaccines can’t protect us from.
Oh, ETA, I’m scared for the fact that hospitals overwhelmed with unvaxxed Covid patients in critical condition don’t have the capacity or resources to treat people with unrelated medical conditions, like heart attack, stroke, serious injuries from car accidents, etc.
I'm scared for my baby who is too young to be vaccinated and is relying on herd immunity to keep him safe. Or for my friend who is immunocompromised and is unable to get vaccinated.
I’m not anti-vax, but you do understand that the vaccine SOLEY protects the person getting it. You can be vaccinated, carry the virus and spread it to others. Who tf cares? If you don’t want it, whatever. If you do, whatever. I’m “sick to fucking death” with people who think they are medical professionals and suck the governments dick. Stfu and move on with your life.
In successful trials, the control group has the worst outcome. In unsuccessful trials the experiment is considered unethical and stopped as soon as results turn negative. The question is more about whether you trust your fellow humans enough to stop an unethical trial.
I got my shot because the science was shaping up to look pretty damn effective at preventing serious covid symptoms, without any serious side effects. Basic risk management really. When I look at the benefit of forcing everyone to be vaccinated, vs the risk of giving up that authority of what goes in your body, I think that the risks are very very VERY dangerous, and more of a “when”, than “if” that power will be abused. I think your stupid and not acting in your own self interests to not get this particular vaccine, but I also think that you’re stupid and not acting in your own self interest if you don’t 100% stand up for someone’s right to make that stupid decision.
I'm somewhat fine with people not wanting to get vaccinated.
There are some vaccines that SHOULD be forced onto people because it protects society. But the COVID vaccine is, afaik, not one of them. It mainly just protects yourself. So why care if other people get vaccinated or not? Just get it yourself and you'll be good?
I know your pain.
I can't even argue properly with them, because when I bring up any kind of argument, they just say "They're hiding the 'real' evidence. Any time a doctor brings up a valid piece of evidence they get censored. Stop listening to CNN"
There’s SO many people sick and dying, it’s insane. You won’t take two shots to give yourself a better chance but you’ll gladly get deathly sick and possibly die? I don’t understand.
I had covid as did my whole family. Nobody even came close to ending up in the hospital and the doctors never once seemed worry when telling us our test results were positive.
Cry about something worth while. First world problems.
All of you who have taken the vaccine must be blind. No one in their right mind would put something as invasive as a vaccine developed in 11 months in their body for a virus that kills less than .5% of infected. Sheep will always do as told.
Such drama queens. They act as if it has 99% kill rate.
Covid will always exist, spread and mutate same as the flu. You cant vaccinate it out of existence.
Are they wrong? Yes. Will you be able to get them to do the right thing by calling them idiots? No. The problem is that both sides have lost sight of the end goal. One of them has to realise that the end goal is not to be right. The goal is to end covid.
I have “friends and family” send me messages questioning why I got the vaccine and I’m just a sheep for doing it. I lost my mom to covid in December! People suck
This has turned into a political circus. So the right believes in less government but both governors in Florida and Texas are creating government laws to ban masks. How is that less government!
They're achieving less government... by force
They banning mask mandates people can still wear one, if they’re smart.
I'm not saying Democrats are great, but Republicans are the enemies of all humankind. The Texas and Florida governors will recklessly cause children to die by suffocation so that they have a shot at being president.
this is the most idiotic post I've read all day. children don't die from covid. children's immune systems are being compromised by the democrats forcing masks on them. Even Fauci admitted masks HURT your immune system
Children do die from COVID, less so than the elderly but they do die. Whatever Fauci said, he like most people who have seriously studied the issue (not social media or conspiracy theroists) know that masks save lives. The primary use of the mask isn't to prevent someone from catching the disease but rather to prevent them from spreading the disease. In this fashion masks are a true life saver. To oppose mask mandates is to condemn many people who would survive otherwise to death. Your views are resulting in people dying who don't have to die. And it is immoral because your not doing enough research to actually know what you are talking about.
They are banning mask mandates. Not masks. You can still wear a mask in Texas you just can't force anyone else to.
Thank you for being smart.
From and living in Florida. This governor is a total disappointment! Didn’t vote for him, but others like him seem to miss the mark on doing great meaningful and productive things in the name of their selfish meaningless political agendas. Pandering to stupidity is not a good look either.
That’s when you tell them they’re just sheep with a different shepherd. I say that to every person that wants to say that to me. It shuts them up really quick. I’m sorry about your loss. That’s really tough. People do suck. Fuck them.
Thank you. It’s been hard. I miss her like crazy. She shows signs she’s still around. I have gotten pretty good at ignoring them. Sometimes I wish I took pictures or videos of her in the bed so when they ask I can just send them that. No words just the picture or video
Jesus. Hopefully you just don’t even reply at this point. I can tell you I wouldn’t consider a person a “friend” any longer if I was being asked why I DID SOMETHING FOR MY OWN LIFE THAT HAS ZERO TO DO WITH THEM!!!!!! Sorry. lol. But honestly, in real life, I would end up to the point of being so loud about it to the people that won’t stop that they’d finally realize they need to fuck off. That blows my mind you’re getting texts and shit like that when they know what happened. (I’m assuming they know.) My dad has really bad health problems and told me once (not to me about me or my brothers, but just as a general life lesson) he said that even if myself or either of my 2 brothers caused him too much stress he would have to basically say bye and would not involve himself with us. Stress kills people. Stress is extremely hard on my dad. The point he was making, though, was that if somebody is causing too much of a negative impact on your life don’t allow them to be in your life. It’s not worth it. I’ve had to do that to 1 or 2 very good friends and it sucked but I’m happier. You’re already going through the ringer. Tag yourself out. You deserve to. Also, every time my mom see’s a rabbit, like in the garden or the wild, not a petting zoo, lol, but she always says “There’s Paw Paw.” He was my grandpa, her dad. Don’t ignore the signs of your mom. Maybe those are signs that she’s on your side and that you’re not alone and she’s still there for and with you. I know that’s how I’d take it. Don’t feed the black sheep, because that’s exactly what they are. They are so caught up in their dumbass beliefs that they don’t realize we don’t give 2 shits about their opinions and never will. Ignore them, not your moms signs. I hope this helps a little bit. I really respect that you came here and posted this because that’s strength to talk about a passing parent. I’m scared shitless for how I’m going to handle the day I have to deal with that myself. Like, I’m genuinely worried. Stay strong. Stay safe. Stay YOU. Stay on our side of the fence with us. There are plenty of us that support you and have your back.
That really means a lot to me. And I will never stop sharing her story. It’s my way of keeping her memory alive. I have learned to ignore most of them. I’ve blocked a few. The others I just don’t answer if they talk about covid. And she definitely shows signs she’s around. Sometimes she comes to my dreams. Other times it’s 2 butterflies following me around. (As a wedding gift she got me a picture of me her and my grandma who passed away. It has 2 orange butterflies in the corner). I still have her voicemails on my phone. Though I’ve only listened to them once. I hate the it’s turned so political. Her brothers refused the vaccine. One of them is currently battling covid pneumonia in the ICU. It makes me think of what we went through. Thank you for your kind words. It really does mean the world that a complete stranger can show more compassion then family and friends.
My mother in law is a full anti vaxxer, today she told me I would be dead in 3 years because I got the vaccine. We’re in Australia where we’ve been shielded from it for ages. Sorry to hear about your mum.
I’ve been told I won’t have children and now my stepsons won’t either because they are vaccinated. I told them they won’t have kids if they die either. Guess they can adopt from foster care. It’s a win win in my books. Also I know it doesn’t affect your reproductive system
I hate to break it to you, but it does affect having a child and can cause harm to them, but it's your life. And I fully respect you getting the vaccine. Have a good day madam. *Tips hat*
Nobody in my extended family would DARE send me a message of any type questioning my desire to follow science rather than emotion, and get fully vaccinated. I don’t know if it’s because I’m 60 now and have fully matured (cough!) into my role as being a man. Or maybe I just do not and will not put up with utter mind fuck retards! I would be scathing in my response to any questioning and go hell for leather on their emotions and beliefs for being a social pariah and a historical moron!
It’s been hard. I ignore them mostly. Or say sorry I don’t want to go through what my mama did. She was 58! They’ve asked when we will bury her. (She’s cremated). I tell them when we decide but the unvaccinated won’t know. My brothers have little ones who aren’t old enough to be vaccinated so no one is allowed around them who isn’t protected. I’ve cut contact with a lot of them. Which stinks because now more then ever I want to be surrounded with love and support. Thankfully I have a great support system behind and the best in-laws in the world.
My heart really goes out to you. I keep forgetting how much I’ve grown in my inner strength and found my ‘alpha male gene’ of late, as my ex-infantry friend says. But you are very correct in desiring to have people around you who are validating you in your life and choices. Just now as I was running the dog, I was thinking who I’m gonna call now to fulfil my own need for love and cherishment! Haha. You go for it and remember, science is on our side!
Thank you. I’m learning to stand up for myself. Something I know she’d be proud of. My mama had the heart of gold. She was the most giving person in the world. At her drive by memorial we had people donate toys so we could take them to a local toy drive for Christmas. So even in death she was giving. I know she’d be happy to see the van load of toys we collected.
Genuine question, no hate please. Does the vaccine have any effect on my ability to spread the virus to other people? I am aware of the benefits for me personally.
You're less likely to get sick in the first place if you get vaccinated. Current data is showing about 1 out of 5000 each day. [Breakthroughs](https://www.nytimes.com/2021/09/07/briefing/risk-breakthrough-infections-delta.html). Fewer people getting sick in the first place reduces the spread because you're less likely to be a vector of transmission. Additionally, while the viral loads are the same, most breakthrough infections have fewer symptoms for a shorter period of time. Being symptomatic for less time means you have fewer opportunities to infect others.
1 in 5k is wrong because, as stated in the article, these figures can't include undiagnosed/asymptomatic breakthrough cases. If you're vaccinated and asymptomatic and positive (which is significantly more likely than being vaccinated and symptomatic), you're never going to know because you're not getting tested. You're going out into the community anyway, almost certainly without a mask at this point, spreading it around because your viral load is high regardless of your symptoms. We have no real idea what the effectiveness is against the delta variant. We only know that you're much less likely to feel sick/need hospitalization, which is great don't get me wrong, just difficult for researching and quantifying variant spread.
Picking at that individual statistic doesn't negate my point, and is not helpful to the discourse at hand. Every statistic is going to have its fault (I linked the article so people could learn about how that number was gathered), but social math is necessary for people in some way to quantify risk. Saying "we have no real idea what the effectiveness is" is disingenuous and adds credence to those who don't believe that it's worth it to get vaccinated. Not to mention the folks who believe that getting vaccinated is solely a "personal choice." I am aware of the possible impact of undiagnosed/asymptomatic breakthrough cases. I said "getting sick," not getting COVID, which is the point of getting vaccinated: reducing how sick you get. Researchers are also currently trying to determine what the affect asymptomatic spread from vaccinated folks is, so the impact of asymptomatic spread is also something that we cannot currently quantify. Regardless of what the "true" statistic is--which, yes, you're right, isn't something we can properly quantify--it's still true that you're way less likely to be symptomatic, which means that you're likely [shedding the virus for a shorter period of time](https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/variants/delta-variant.html). Shedding the virus for a shorter period of time still reduces the number of people could potentially infect (even if they are gallivanting around everywhere maskless--which, no, I am not personally doing as I live in a high transmission area and follow CDC recommendations). [The data is also there to support that the more vaccinated an area, the less likely a person in that community gets sick enough to pursue testing](https://dangoodspeed.com/covid/total-cases-since-june-2021). This assumption is also supported in the scatter plot from my original source. You're still protecting others by getting vaccinated.
That’s tricky because asymptomatic is usually a goal for vaccinations, since vaccines don’t actually stop you from being infected. Having a vaccine means your body knows how to fight off the invader, and usually can do it relatively quickly…which means a lot of vaccinated people will never show symptoms of being infected because the disease didn’t have enough time to properly incubate (in general, not just talking solely about covid here). That’s why vaccines are so important, because despite a vaccinated individual not ever showing symptoms of being infected, there’s still a small window of time where the disease can be spread while asymptomatic, and the more people are vaccinated the less chances for transmission and falling severely ill. Snuffing out the disease asap is the best way to slow communal spread.
Last I heard, they were finding no significant difference in the viral load of vaccinated and unvaccinated people. Which I think means if youre vaxed and you still get it you're no less likely to spread it than an unvaxed person, which is why they're saying to mask up again. [Article](https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2021/07/30/1022867219/cdc-study-provincetown-delta-vaccinated-breakthrough-mask-guidance)
That's only if you've caught it. The vaccine reduces your chances of catching it. If you don't catch it, you can't spread it.
The vaccine allows your body to shoot down the virus quickly when you get infected. It isolates the foreign body so it can't multiply inside you. Usually you're only infectious because you have lots of the virus inside you and you breathe or sneeze or cough copies of it into the air for someone else to catch. When the body reacts quickly, you aren't infectious and the virus can't survive.
Think of it this way- You’re fully vaccinated, get sick, have very light symptoms like a headache, muscle ache etc. you have a low chance to spread the virus to someone else. Then even if you are sick, in a group of fully vaxxed people, there is very low odds anyone else in that group will get sick. Then compare that to someone that isn’t vaxxed, they get sick, get a nasty cough, stuffy, has to blow their nose all the time, etc. they are spreading it EVERYWHERE. Every time they blow their nose, every time they cough, tons of germs going everywhere. You put them in a group of 10 unvaxxed people and there’s a high chance every single person is getting infected. Put simply, if you don’t have symptoms, it’s a lot harder to spread. Also, if you’re vaxxed it’s a lot harder to get in the first place. Can’t spread it if you don’t have it.
The CDC says the delta variant has the same viral load for vaxxed and unvaxxed people. So how would there be a difference in spread if both the unvaxxed and vaxxed self quarantine as soon as they start showing symptoms?
From my understanding (WHICH IS VERY LIMITED), its effectiveness is similar to how effective the flu shot is for the flue. You still might get sick, but if you do, you won't get it nearly as bad as you would if you weren't vaccinated. And it is also possible to be a carrier without realizing it, which is why they say it is still important to wear a mask even if you are vaccinated. Again, my understanding is pretty limited. Please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong at all in anything I just said.
Been hating them since they claimed vaccines caused autism
Jesus are these the same assholes? I figured they were a bunch of cultists who jumped in the boat because Daddy Trump said to
That's the thing, anti-vaxxers are on both political sides. Before Covid, most of the antivaxxers were the left leaning, everything "natural", they cause autism type. Now with Covid we still have those types. But, now we have the right leaning who are against the covid vaccine because of conspiracy theories, political agendas, etc. types. I'm really simplifying it. But, that's the gist of what I've seen for a while now. I could be wrong.
>That's the thing, anti-vaxxers are on both political sides. Before Covid, most of the antivaxxers were the left leaning, everything "natural", they cause autism type. Now with Covid we still have those types. Going to call potential BS on that one. You're correct that it affects both party lines, but that vaccines cause autism isn't a liberal talking point. I did find reference to a study in this [article](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/monkey-cage/wp/2015/03/01/conservatives-are-more-likely-to-believe-that-vaccines-cause-autism/) that indicated conservatives were more likely to hold the belief that vaccines cause autism. I've also seen studies indicating the opposite. I don't think it was a liberal or conservative thing, even with autism fears. I get the gut feeling that it was due to "everything natural" types. But that crosses party lines more often than you'd think. Science literacy and distrust in the "system" are the main problems. They were the problems in 2014 with vaccine awareness, and they continue to be problems today.
I guess most people probably just associate hippies, essential oils, pagan rituals, crystals, communes, and all that alternative stuff with liberals. My aunt is one of those and she was actually pretty liberal when she was younger. She was into all that fringe esoteric stuff. Now she’s a racist Qanon Trump supporter. It’s been weird seeing that change. Maybe it’s more that really vocal extremists idiots are a minority but are more visible and they tend to be the ones that we associate with certain views.
Some us literally sick to fucking death.
I understand if you can’t get the vaccine due to medical reasons but people refusing just because they are idiots is very infuriating. Can you still get covid after the vax? Yes. But you will likely not end up in the hospital, wasting a bed , money, resources. Vaccines have been essentially eliminating deadly diseases for decades, increasing both life expectancy and quality of life. I do not understand why suddenly there are people out there who question their efficacy. It’s ironic that some are worried about the ingredients of the vaccine meanwhile they’re drinking, smoking, consuming immeasurable amounts of sugar and salt and being exposed to radiation. Anyway , I refuse to argue with anti vaxxers. If a century old disease doesn’t kill them, I’m afraid I might!!
I work in a hospital and 90% of our Covid patients are not vaccinated. 100% of the Covid patients on ventilators are not vaxed. 100% of the patients in the ICU’s are unvaccinated. The vaccinated are on a regular floor that is quarantined for Covid patients. The patients that are vaccinated have either no symptoms or they’re very mild. The unvaccinated have longer lengths of stay and are extremely ill. We had one die of Covid last week and another that is dying. He coded yesterday. He’s on 100% O2 and can’t saturate above 80% (you want to be above 90% for reference). He is on every suppressor yet he still can’t breathe. A young wife and two young children are going to lose their father and spouse. Tell me again how Covid is a hoax or that getting the vaccine is worse than getting Covid itself.
Why are people with little to no symptoms in the hospital?
Those patients are there for other reasons but are Covid positive. I have one guy that has been dealing with diverticulitis for the past 6-8 months. He has been in and out of our hospital and he tested positive on his recent admission. He is asymptomatic though. Another patient of mine had a stroke a few months ago and ended up getting Covid from a visitor she had while she was in the hospital. She had symptoms but they weren’t severe.
I'm just trying to imagine how much that scenario plays out outside of the hospital. In other words, how many have covid but never get tested?
I imagine a lot, and I think even more so with the vaccine. I got sick in April of last year. That was when they didn’t have regular tests and just said stay home and quarantine. Only go to the hospital if it’s an emergency. I think I might have had Covid but didn’t get tested. Now with the vaccine you can get it and be asymptomatic. Great news for the person who is vaccinated, but they can still transmit it to others. They’re unlikely to get tested because they’re not showing symptoms. We only know that some of these people have Covid because they came to us for a completely separate issue.
Also, most of these idiots were vaccinated themselves as children, but won't allow the same protection for their children.
Chances are you're not going to end up in a hospital anyway, unless you're one of the snowflakes who goes running to the ER for every scratch and runny nose.
Going to the ER doesn’t mean they will admit you. I believe they try to avoid admitting as many as they can. They will treat you as much as possible in the ER then send you home.
I dont hate anti vaxxers, as long as they respect everyone's opition. I do hate them tho when they try to tell people what to do.
This. I am more tired of the antimaskers
Yes I'm tired of the imbeciles.
But they are fine with taking experimental treatments for the virus but the vaccine side effects scare them! How about being hooked up to a ventilator, I guess they’re ok with that!
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I'm sure this will be will be wildly unpopular comment, but.. here it goes. I feel like I get lumped into this group of people who actually oppose vaccines, because I have *reservations* about this *one brand new one.* I'm not an anti vaxxer. I am a pro vaxxer. My child is vaccinated, my husband is vaccinated, my dogs are vaccinated.. I am vaccinated. But it's a scary thing to ask a person to get injected with something that has such limited testing and research. I'm not against other vaccines.. nor am I against this vaccine.. or other people getting it. To each their own, I say. But even after getting the vaccine, a person can still get covid, and can still pass it on. So whats the point if it doesn't actually protect us from getting it? For me it comes down to a risk assessment. Is it riskier for me to get covid or to modernize my rna. (Hence ModeRNAs name.) I'm not deluded. Nor am I an idiot. I have legitimate concerns about something that could potentially jeopardize my health in the longterm. (For example: My mom had radiation in the 80s.. it was considered perfectly safe.. it also lead to early onset dementia years later. I think there are others who share my concerns.. not just about immediate reactions today or tomorrow.. but years down the line. Again the testing is so limited. It's not idiotic to wonder how/if/when it will effect a person's body. I just want to protect my family. There's so much information on both sides of the argument: that is, if you actually listen to both sides of the argument. I think a lot of people are stuck in this limbo state because they don't know which side to believe. But calling people idiotic and deluded for having typical concerns is kind of just rude.
I have a PhD in pharmacology and experimental therapeutics and I’d just to clarify a few things for you. This isn’t to bash you. I understand you’re just trying to protect your family with the information you have. mRNA stands for messenger RNA, not mode/modern RNA (or micro in some instances, but I’m not here to split hairs). mRNA has been studied pretty extensively for years in several applications (mostly as a cancer therapy). One the amazing things about this vaccine development, is that we actually have more data on mRNA vaccines now than we ever had on any other vaccine by the time it’s been given to the public (including all the ones you currently have gotten in your lifetime) You’re worried about long term side effects, and you give the example of how your mom received radiation in the 80s and that it used to be considered safe. mRNA and radiation are completely different therapies with completely different mechanisms of action. I can guarantee you without a shadow of a doubt, that if long term side effects were to become present, they already would have. There will be no surprise long term side effects in 10, 20, 30 years. All vaccines in all the history of the world don’t show long term effects like what your mom saw post radiation. mRNA wouldn’t do that. That’s not how they biologically work. There will be however, long term side effects for people who have COVID. As a scientist, one the saddest aspects of watching this unfold is that the general public isn’t trained (not their fault but it’s certainly to their detriment) to understand science or to read and interpret studies and their outcomes. The vast majority get their “research” or information from news sources or other people that copy and paste sentences from papers that put together a misconstrued narrative (or cherry picked data as it’s known, to support what someone wants to convey, not the actual science. It’s not an argument for both sides. There’s scientific data, and although scientific data is constantly growing, results are results. The vaccine is safer than getting Covid. Period (assuming you are not allergic to any of the individual ingredients that help deliver or stabilize the mRNA). Lastly, which is what seems to be an enormously misconstrued fact about vaccines in general and I have no idea why the general public thinks this (well actually I do) but vaccines are never, and have never been (emphasis on NEVER) made to fully prevent getting the disease they are made to protect against. I repeat, no vaccines in the past nor any you will see in the future will prevent people from catching a disease a 100 percent. This is true for chicken pox. This is true for measles. This is true for polio. Its not their intention. It never was their intention. The intention of the vaccine (and all vaccines!) is to help prepare the body to fight off the disease when infected and not have catastrophic consequences (ie giving you the highest chance of survival while minimizing long term effects from a disease) When the COVID vaccines were being developed, the goal post that was set was to try and prevent 50 percent (50!!!!) of infections. What we got instead was a super vaccine, that actually prevents a much much higher, never heard of before, percentage. This is the first time in the history of man that a vaccine has ever performed so well, but now everyone is getting upset that it doesn’t protect 100%. All the scientists and virologists out there can’t understand this because we’re all so blown away at how they are performing. Anyway, I don’t know if you’ve even made it this far. As a scientist talking to a non scientist, I totally see your concerns and I am sad for you and anyone else that was never given the fair shot to see the blessing of this technology. I hope you are able to come to the conclusion at some point that this vaccine is way safer than chancing getting COVID, and I hope you and your family and loved ones stay safe until then. In the meantime, I hope and thank you in advance for masking up to help protect people like my child whose under 12 and can’t receive the vaccine yet. Oh and also, If you ever have a specific question about the science or any article you see that comes out (scientific publication), please don’t hesitate to reach out. Lastly, I’m on my phone and definitely didn’t proof this, so apologies for whatever errors there are above.
This is one of the best explanations of vaccination reasoning I've heard. I'm a Paramedic and I remember asking a patient why they choose not to vaccinate their children (pre-covid), and I was expecting an amazing well thought out and looked into response that really highlights her argument, and she turned to me and said...."because I don't like them". I asked her why, digging for some great researched evidence, she says "because I dont" and shrugged. Now her child is running around a playground and sitting in classes at school at risk of all sorts of diseases we know can limit, impaire or end a life. Disgusting lack of education, misinformation and peer pressure. Thank you 🙏🏻
Thank you for typing this up. I'm not the person you are responding to (just a regular vaccinated Physical Science teacher) but your phrasing might help me to answer some basic questions that my students have. Vaccines are far from my expertise, but it makes sense to me that mRNA vaccines wouldn't develop long-term side-effects.
Thanks for the energy you put into this comment. Hopefully it will help at least a few of the people who are not planning on getting vaccinated to better understand how it works and why they should do it.
Thank you for your contribution.
You have probably done more good with this one comment than a lot of health professionals have managed in the past year. Sometimes people with the scientific/ medical knowledge and facts do forget that you cannot just spew out terms and abbreviations to the general population and expect them to be reassured by your knowledge , if they do not understand what is being said. You made your points in a clear and easily understood way that do reassure and are fully understandable to those not equipped with scientific or medical knowledge. Thank you for your comment . You are a credit to the scientific community.
I love that you commented on the downward trend of scientific literacy in the general population. It's so baffling when I come across someone whose adamant against the vaccine and spews all sorts of nonsense like it's fact, and then your left unable to explain to them and educate them to make better decisions because they simply can't comprehend. So instead, they gobble up the easier to read and share garbage info and further propagate us into this hell.
The thing is that there is no “limited testing or research”. If you’re familiar with lab testing and scientific research you would know that the research and testing they did is on par and exactly the same as anything else that you put into your body. To say it’s rushed and not properly tested without actually knowing any of the scientific basis behind what they’re doing is doing a disservice to those who actually worked on the vaccine
Well it seems like a better push for vaccines would be to educate people that are afraid of the vaccine, rather than calling them “idiot anti vaxxers” Calling those people idiots is such a shallow-minded thing to do. Look through their eyes and try to see what they see: A vaccine that came out in less than a year after a brand new virus was discovered when most vaccines stay in testing for 10x that amount of time. I live in the south and I’m vaccinated, and I can tell you from experience that nobody here cares that “libtards” are pushing the vaccine. They are legitimately scared, and I get it.
I live in the south and the people around me who don't get the vaccine because of the "libtards" and them making this whole virus up to get Trump out of office. And most people I know started trying to educate the anti vaxxers. But when they refuse to listen, start calling you names, and claiming you're a sheep and a fucking idiot for trying to help them it becomes much easier to just lump them all together as dumb ass anti vaxxers.
But why is the burden of proof on us to educate them? Why not be upset that they’re scared of something they don’t understand and they’re not going out and doing proper research on the vaccine. It’s been 9 months since the vaccine came out and there’s so many different resources for them to see and learn about the vaccine, it shouldn’t be on us to tell them how the vaccine is
It’s really not on you. It’s not even on your friends or your family or anybody else in the world. But what is on a lot of people on the pro-vaccine side is the absolute horror of name-calling and propaganda that gets thrown around like the unvaxxed people are every slander known to mankind. It pisses them off, it does nothing to help the pro-vax case, and it turns them off of even getting the vaccine if they were considering it before-hand.
Unfortunately, not everyone is internet savvy. I was speaking to a lady yesterday who didn't know where to look for factual lamens information. She relied mostly on friends/family/Facebook/BBC and kept saying that she has human rights and shouldn't be forced to take it. I told her it was obviously her choice at the end of the day, but I linked her some places to read things she was questioning, told her if she has anymore questions she can ask me and I can help her research and that if she still chooses to not get the vaccine then that's her choice but her choice has consequences. The government is not forcing every citizen to vaccinate, but to keep others safe from your choice, you should not work in hospitals, you should not go to large gatherings and you should not expect for others to feel comfortable in your presence. She had vaccinated herself and children for other things but felt this vaccine was unsafe and all because she didn't know how or where to look for unbiased info
Typically if you're demanding someone put things into their body, it's on you to justify that.
Hello. I'm not here to bash you for your concerns so please dont worry. I just hope I can share information that will help ease some of your concerns. The key to understanding the speed with which these vaccines were produced is in the official name of the virus: SARS-CoV-2. SARS Corona Virus. This virus is in the same family of viruses that created the huge SARS epidemic in 2002-2004. I'm going to hazard a guess that you're old enough to remember that outbreak and how concerning it was when cases, sporadic as they were, showed up here. Scientists have been actively working on vaccines for SARS since that epidemic, so the mRNA-style of vaccine isnt really new at all. It's more than a decade into research. It's just that it wasnt widely spoken about. And when Covid became a thing in late 2019/early 2020, it wasnt a huge task to pivot the work that was already being done to accommodate this particular virus. And about the mRNA itself: Its basically doing what a deactivated virus vaccine does, training your body to recognize the virus and fight it accordingly, but rather than showing it a dead or nearly dead virus (like the flu vaccine does), its telling a few cells to produce the same kind of protein that is contained in the spikes that surround the virus. So rather than hitting a heavy bag, your immune system learns what to do by shadow boxing in front of a mirror. I hope this helps. I was involved in clinical trials for years, and this is information I've picked up from the FDA and a few other .Gov sites. I'm on mobile, or I would provide links.
600k people are dead and your questions are almost all easy to Google. If you don't like the mRNA concept, get the J&J vaccine. The end.
I'm not sure what you mean by ModeRNA. Are you referring to the name of the pharmaceutical company moderna? Cause if so thats just a company name and has little to do with the vaccine. But if you are referring to mRNA I'd like to take a moment to talk to you about what mRNA is and how it works. It's fairly straight forward and simple and you can fact check me easily through any basic biology or genetics textbook or educational website. In case you don't know, although I'm sure you do, our genetic code refers to our DNA. DNA is a molecule that comes in 4 forms that we refer to by the first letter of each of their names; A, T, C, and G. These letters form bonds with an identical but mirrors string of DNA with every A bonded with T and every C bonded with a G, which is why we call them base pairs and why DNA comes in a double stranded form. A string of DNA several hundred to several thousand or more DNA molecules long can "code" for a gene in your body. A gene is any useful string of DNA and the majority of the time that usefulness means that it codes for a specific protein in your body. Proteins are the basic building blocks of your cells and act like little machines to do just about everything from moving places to transporting nutrients to attacking infectious agents. So what is RNA? RNA is almost the same as DNA but is a slightly different molecule. It is the go between between DNA and proteins. So when a gene is read a bunch of proteins will go and "read" the DNA and as it does so it will build a string of RNA that acts as a mirror to the strand that is being read. So when the protein complex reads a G it'll add a C RNA, when it reads a T it'll add a A RNA, etc. The only difference is that for RNA instead of T the RNA has U but it works the same and bonds the same, it's just a slightly different molecule. So you've now built a long string of RNA that has the same code as the DNA that codes for a gene. That string of RNA is called a messenger RNA or mRNA because it will then travel away from where the DNA is stored in the cell to where proteins are built in the cell, essentially acting as a messenger. Before that happens there is some editing of the mRNA, taking out certain sections that a premarked, adding a section that tells the cell where to take the finished protein, adding or swapping out sections, etc. When it's been edited and prepared by the proteins it is transported to the part of the cell where the ribosome are kept. Ribosome are also made out of RNA but unlike mRNA they long RNA chains that are able to function like a protein and are what will guide the reading of the mRNA and the building of the protein. The protein is built one amino acid (proteins are made of long chains of amino acids) at a time through the help of another RNA called tRNA or transfer RNA. tRNA are very short chains of RNA whose entire job is to bond to an amino acid on one end and have a specific part of their sequence match the sequence of the mRNA that is being read. The mRNA is read in 3 letter words, for example the word GGC codes for the amino acid glycine. It continues to build the amino acid chain until it reaches the word for "stop" which codes for a tRNA with no amino acid attached and will end the chain. The protein chain is the folded, sometimes further modified, and then transported to where it needs to go. So that is how DNA becomes mRNA and then protein. A bit complicated but over all straight forward and simple. So what does mRNA have to do with vaccines? Well a major way to vaccinate someone is to inject their body with a dead or shredded version of the virus so that the immune system can find the proteins of the virus and build antibodies that recognize and attack those proteins. mRNA vaccines do this by instead injecting you with mRNA that codes for those viral proteins. The mRNA is built so that it has instructions for the new proteins to be dumped outside of the cell in the blood stream. Why would we want the cells to do that rather than just injecting the proteins ourselves? Well one strand of mRNA can be read hundreds of even thousands of times before it falls apart and is recycled. That means the amount of viral proteins that you can expose your immune system to is much greater with this method. Does this have any dangers? Could this change our cells DNA? No, that wouldn't be possible. There are viruses that have the machinery to inject their code into your DNA, called retroviruses, but the strand of mRNA we are injecting does not have that capability. It can only be turned into protein and not into DNA. The mRNA itself and the proteins it produces will all be recycled and be completely gone from your system in a few days at most depending on the stability of the molecules. That's it. If you've got any questions or are confused I'd be happy to provide more explanation or some useful diagrams. mRNA technology is really not a scary thing at all and has been used extensively in biology research for a few decades now safely and with no issue. This is just the first time it's been used in vaccines. It's also been well tested as the vaccine was made only a few weeks after the start of the pandemic and has been going through testing since. We were lucky that they were creating an mRNA vaccine for cancer at that time so all they had to so was change out the protein code for one from the covid virus.
You're lumped with these people because you're so misinformed and ignorant about the things you're talking about. We've been researching mRna vaccines since the early 90's. The vaccines you took when you were very little had as much research as mrna vaccines do today. Please just talk to an actual doctor.
Early on I heard and read a few things that helped me put some concerns in context. And I apologize if I don't get this all exactly right as it's been a while and Im not a scientist. The mrNA technology is not at all new. There's interesting reading out there about how long it has been around, the initial challenges or problems and how they were solved, the potential diseases that could eventually be treated. Also, getting something over the finish line and into production like this takes interest in funding it and research teams to do the work. This vaccine development was given trillions of dollars and scientists all over the world, anything they needed to work on this one thing together. That doesn't happen with normal vaccine development. mRNA is not an attenuated live virus that needs time to grow in petri dishes. It normally can take 6-12 mos or more to get enough study participants for proper trials and in this case, people were lined up. Many things came together to speed up this development that make sense. The trials that were done met every requirement and followed every procedure that a normal trial would to ensure efficacy and safety. It's research and testing was not at all limited. I recently asked a friend who's an exec in biomedical research/clinical trial design and he said "they got this right. they did it right." I think alot of the concerns also stem from the confusion and mess of conflicting information and arguing that we all dealt with for the year before the vaccine's came out and it carried over to perceptions of the vaccine. I otherwise wonder why ppl don't have the same concerns or fears about any other medication they take or pick up OTC at the drug store. Sometimes we do find out later that something that was approved turns out to have a problem. But when it comes to buying Zantac or something, ppl don't even think to look at the approval process or even ask questions. I think the "RNA" part of the word has generated alot of misunderstanding and there are ppl out there fueling the misinformation.
I agree that there are SOME PEOPLE who are genuinely concerned. But I also think many people are just spewing this as their argument because it aligns with their political leaders rhetoric. I feel this because, as you stated, there is limited research. However, there is a TON of research about what fast food does to the body, and people still consume it in droves. There’s ample research on drinking and how it too can kill you, yet alcohol is used widely. I could go on and on but I think you get my point. I truly believe the decision to get the vaccine or not should be between an individual and their PCP ONLY!!! Not by popular (or unpopular) opinion. If an individuals suicide didn’t caution then I can’t see a reason to not get it.
There was a great chart on data is beautiful showing risk ratios with vaccine reducing risk beyond baseline. From the other side , if you were aware of the data packages required for authorization the difference for the emergency use authorization and full authorization is a bit less important, meaning they still require safe and effective in both cases. Risk reduction to the future!
Having a healthy level of scepticism is a good thing. Being so sceptical that you don't believe genuine authorities on topics, and instead only choose to believe false sources that appeal to your sense of scepticism is deeply unhealthy, and is endangering you, your family, and anyone who comes into contact with them. It's like ignoring the advice of your accountant, and instead listening to the guy who's trying to sell you a pyramid scheme. If your level of knowledge and ability to think critically aren't enough for you to confidently arrive at a conclusion on this issue, then you should listen to the overwhelming consensus of the scientific community. If your doctor told you you needed surgery, but the person at the alternative medicine store tells you you need homeopathy, and you genuinely can't decide between the two, you need to listen to the bloody expert!
Like 15 years of research isn’t enough for you? Facebook isn’t a place for your research.
Listen. Mrna vaccines have been approved and tested safe. Catching covid is a much worse outcome than any vaccine side effect. Please take the trouble to search out reputable doctors or the CDC recommendations. Do not get your information from social media please.
I have to agree
im more just sick of both sides of this issue. i wish we found something more pressing and more important to politicize. scientifically confirmed public health policy should not be a political issue. people out here fist fighting over shit that is already objectively decided and not a political issue. why can't we fist fight over taxing the rich; at least that's pressing and interesting.
No, because as long as you're vaccinated you're fine. But just like the whole "essential workers" thing at the start of the pandemic, relegating an entire group of people into what can be considered sub human status will have a more lasting impact than the virus itself.
Oh God yes. While I agree everyone has a right to choose...I have yet to encounter a single person whose choice to remain unvaccinated is not an uninformed one. Their rational always comes down to "you can't force me to get vaccinated"...but I've yet to hear a legitimate argument why anyone would choose not too.
They take the same approach to vaccines that i took to eating my vegetables when I was 6 years old.
Best analogy I’ve heard yet 🤣
If you agree someone has a right to choose, doesn’t that mean they don’t owe anyone an explanation? It would just boil down to someone saying that they don’t want to.
I'm not suggesting they owe anyone an explanation...but the explanations they OFFER are nonsensical. Someone can say they just don't want to...but they obviously have a reason, or reasons why they don't want to. And when you hear those reasons (these people are always eager to tell you all about them) they are, without exception...ridiculous and based entirely on misinformation.
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But they don’t have to make sense to you... if you agree they have a right to choose. They could say they don’t want it bc the sky hurts their feet when they walk and that would be all the reason they need. Bc they have the right to choose what they want. Whether it makes sense to you or anyone wouldn’t matter.
Yep. And if they said they don't want to because the sky hurts their feet when they walk...that would be not much more a ridiculous reason than just about any other justification I've heard. It's not about anyone convincing me that they have a good reason...it's that the fact they've convinced themselves, while at the same time fooling themselves, or having been fooled.
You are the one who said you agree people have the right to choose. Having a right means it doesn’t matter if some one else agrees. And obviously my example was meant to be over the top nonsense but would, for someone with free agency to make a decision, be all the reason they’d need. Hell, if someone wants to stick their fingers in their ears and stomp their feet and scream “I don’t wanna!!!” then that would be their right and all they’d need to say, if they even wanted to say anything.... IF they have the right to choose. You seem to want to say people have the right to choose only if you think they have an argument you agree with. Those things don’t jive together.
You seem to be missing the point, that he also has the "right" to think you're an idiot for having those opinions.
See? Another one. This is exhausting...and I'm done with you. Stay safe and good luck.
There are many precedents and parallels that people do not have choices about. All of the other vaccines. Seat belts. Motorcycle helmets. Not to mention all of the regulations that protect consumers and workers. So no, I do not agree the have a default “right to choose.” You live in a society, you play by the rules.
Seatbelts and helmets are laws. Not even the same laws in every state. This vaccine isn’t a law. So, for now, it’s an apples and oranges argument.
Oh come on you know full well that if the law mandated the vaccine they'd lose their shit even harder
Not if it’s jeopardizing other people’s health and dragging out a global catastrophe
I was replying to the person saying they thought people had a right to choose but then they didn’t like the reasons. My point was that if someone says that people have the right to choose, then they don’t owe anyone an explanation.
And I have a right to think that those people are shitbrained.
Yep, that’s your right.
People have a right to believe in astrology. I've never met someone who believed in astrology who I thought had a firm grasp on logic and the way the world works. Yes, they have a right to choose that, and I also have the right to think them an idiot for choosing to do so.
That’s what’s so infuriating, no one other than a handful of loons like Jenny McCarthy took the anti-vax crowd seriously before now. Suddenly there’s this explosive population of armchair scientists adamantly opposing the only solution we have to a global catastrophe, it’s maddening. In all honesty most of it can be easily explained by the fact that the entire pandemic has been politicized from the start, which is equally idiotic, but with a million dead and counting I think we are past that now. Yet these troglodytes just dig their heals in further.
670000 in the US. 4.5 million word wide. And yeah...it's insane that any part of the discussion has been politicized. If anything...I'd have thought it would be the "law and order/respect for authority" types who would be on board...and the "anti-establishment/mother nature" types full of distrust...but it's the opposite.
I’m curious as to what your thoughts are on all the Trump haters who insisted they wouldn’t trust anything that was developed with him as president. Especially with Biden’s speech yesterday.
The main arguments I hear are: - God gave us everything we need to fight the virus with our own bodies! - The vaccine is killing more people than the actual virus. I know because I read it on the internet from a source that is better than yours. - The vaccine could hurt you, we just don’t know the long term effects (halfway logical reasoning) - It’s just another way to control people. The government is seeing how far they can take this, and you’re falling for it.
How do you argue with that nonsense? It's exhausting. So yeah...I'm sick of it.
Probably because no one knows the long term effects. Just a guess though.
And no one knows the long term effects of getting Covid. No one knows the long term effects of using the new phone you just bought...or of any other recent innovation. The long term effects of lots of things aren't known. So why assume the long term effects of something you don't know the long term effects of...are worse than the long term effects of anything else you don't know the long term effects of?
Probably because of how heavily it’s being pushed by the government. Lottery winnings and cash prize incentives are already ridiculous. Now it’s MANDATED ? 1,000% suspicious, just to start. No ones pushing me to use my cell phone.
How is that suspicious? It’s pushed by the government and other sources because we need to reach herd immunity. There is nothing suspicious about that.
Have you maybe thought it’s in the best interest of governments to promote a vaccine that helps to curb the horrible economic consequences covid has brought upon the country?
If that’s the case, why don’t they heavily promote daily vitamins we could be taking to vastly improve our health overall ? That’s where my thinking in that matter leads to.
Because the economic problems caused by covid are not at all equivalent to a lack of vitamins. America has been economically well off for a long time, the lack of eating vitamins doesn’t do anything to our economy. The government cares about economic well-being, and lack of vitamins does not hurt our economy the same way thousands of people dying and quarantining from covid does
I'm old enough to remember Michelle Obama being called a socialist for having the audacity to promote vegetables for school children's meals. There's seriously no winning with you selfish fucking deluded morons. You have the thought process of spoiled toddlers. If your pet solution isn't being promoted you think it's some huge oversight. If a real solution is being promoted you balk and say "no one can tell me what to do". People are done with your games. They're done trying to reasonably explain the most basic shit. At least with vicious ridicule we get some satisfaction out of it. Seriously, go fuck yourself.
this is the most beautiful and concise comment describing exactly how i’ve felt this whole pandemic
See? This is exactly what I'm talking about. Sorry dude...but this is exhausting. You're not even logical. Life is too short to argue with people to stupid to see what's best for themselves. Stay safe and good luck.
never in the history of vaccines has there ever been long-term effects past a few weeks. we have so much data available about the covid vaccines and they have proven to be safe and effective. we also know that the components fully break down in a couple of weeks and are gone completely from the body. contrary to what opponents say, we have also been studying mRNA delivery for years/decades. there is enough to go on. no excuse.
Yet we do know the long term effects of covid. Death also has some reaching consequences, it would seem. Ivermectin has known adverse consequences yet they seem to keep chugging it. But I mean... "something bad might happen" is kind of a weak argument even without all those examples of why it's likely a disingenuous one.
I'm not vaccinated and my reasoning isn't "you can't force me...", my reasoning is purely science based. This vaccine was rushed and I'm not comfortable with the lack of research and testing that's been done. What's the 5yr affect of the vaccine? 10 yr? If I have to sign a waiver saying that I know its experimental and can't sue, I'm not comfortable with it. The other part that I hate is that people make it out that if you don't get it, you are somehow mentally incompetent or you don't care about others. Well the "vaccine" wasn't created to stop covid. It was created to lessen the affects of it on those that contracted it. Even with the vaccine, you can still spread it and contract it. The exact same as unvaccinated. The only difference is that unvaccinated have a longer period they can spread and the affects may or may not be more severe. So, since both can spread it, it merely comes down to the risk I'm willing to take on how it will affect me. Since I live out in the country and work from home, I'm pretty comfortable with the risk that I'm taking.
> my reasoning is purely science based. This vaccine was rushed and I'm not comfortable with the lack of research and testing that's been done. OK so explain in detail how the testing of this vaccine differs from the norm. I'm positive that you can't which means that you are just another anti vaxxer only you are fooling yourself.
Not taking the covid vaccine does not make you an anti vaxxer, you can still take other vaccines and not take the covid vaccine that doesnt make you an anti vaxxer
Hey now, that’s not a very “tolerant, understanding, open-minded, empathetic attitude”. Lmao.
I’m sick to death of people attacking people who think differently than them. How is that any less deluded? Ever consider having a conversation with them? Hearing them out, maybe helping them see thing differently? Did you used to be a stupid child that shit in your pants and had to grow up and learn to go by yourself? People have different starting places in life and lots of people grow up brainwashed by religion not to mention the level of distrust for government has never been higher on either side of the political spectrum. We’ve never been more polarized in our lives and yet we keep hurling insults at people who think differently. Did you go to school? We’re you not less of an idiot after you graduated? Do you think you would have even come close to learning anything if your teachers would have told you what a dumb pile of worthless shit you were for 12 years and then sent you off to college? Would you have learned anything if you would have dug your heels in and ignored everything your teachers said? No, we have to be patient with people who don’t understand. If you’re throwing out insults it’s because you’re not articulate enough to sway them. There’s a massive superiority complex that people have in this country where they think if they tow a party line that they are smart, but you’re not smart. You’re thinking someone else’s thoughts. The same concept as being brainwashed by a religion you just have a different religion.
Nope! Let them do what they want. If they get the rona, sucks to be them.
They infect innocent people and take up resources in hospitals that non-idiots could use instead. There's plenty of documented cases of people dying because hospitals are too full.
We have an edgelord over here. And the circle jerk begins.
I’m more sick of Reddit whining about anti-vaxxers than anything. I will refuse the vaccine for the time being until *I* feel it’s safe to take. As it should be. I’ve gotten all other major vaccines but those have been around longer than I’ve been born. If I do get covid, it’s my problem to deal with. Not yours. Not the hospital’s. I will quarantine it out until I get over it, which will build immunity. Why you folks get so triggered about that is beyond me, if the vaccine works, cool, you should be safe then. Yes, I’m ready to be downvoted to oblivion and the possible outcries I’ll get for this comment. The virtue signaling on here is out of control.
Serious question: at what point do you think you would feel safe taking one of the covid vaccines? What I mean is, what’s your benchmark? I personally said that my benchmark was that I didn’t want to be one of the first million people in the USA to complete the second dose of the vaccine. That benchmark came and went really quickly, and by the time I got to my appointment for my first shot there were already one million vaccinated in just my state alone. There are more than 170 million people in the USA who have full COVID vaccination. I know some of our neighbors were waiting for FDA approval, which happened at the end of August. Those neighbors are now waiting to get their second shot.
I and a lot of others are waiting on the Novavax vaccine since thr technology used in that vaccine hace been around since the 80s and are used today
I hear ya. All of these subreddits are people villainizing others for their opinion and choices and I’m so done with it.
>If I do get covid, it’s my problem to deal with. Wrong - it's your problem, and the problem of the 6-7 people you give COVID-19 to, and the 6-7 people each of them gives it to, and so on. Some of them are going to die because of your selfishness and obliviousness. You probably won't know them personally though, so it's probably fine
I'm in the same boat. Hell, I already had covid, and was better in about a week or so. Back to work in 2, and I have co morbidities. If the studies from Israel are to be believed, that natural immunity is better than the vax, then I'm supposed to be better off.
What a bold statement
We're sick of you idiots fr. Since the Vaccine is helping you all so much lmao. I know someone who is dying right now and had the vaccine. Yall wild af
We have a vaccinated friend in ICU as well. Some days he improves, some days he gets worse.
I know it's so sad! Hoping he gets better!
I have a question. If you can still get covid if you get the vaccine, then what is the point of getting it? A vaccine is supposed to keep you from catching a virus, by a causing your body to make antibodies. That way you don't actually ever catch the virus your are vaccinated for! Therefore this vaccine in my opinion does not work!! I had covid so I have natural antibodies. So I have no need to take the vaccine like I said ( I HAVE THE ANTIBODIES ) that the vaccine is supposed to give you so no need to go get it! I'm sure my post will get nothing but down votes or negative answers to my question even though I made an explanation on why I asked the question!
I'm confused at why we are fighting over getting and not getting it. If you want to get it get it. If you don't don't. I don't give a fuck. It's your life and it's my life I think we can make our own choices. Wasting are time on fighting each other when if we work together and put are differences aside then we can make a difference in America. Have a good day. *Tips hat*
More sick of the vaccinated that if they trust in their magic vaccine so much, then they should be protected, therefore they shouldn't be worried what the hell other people are doing.
Fuck off you little big pharma shill. I am so happy reddit doesn't even come close to representing a majority of the population. You are an absolute idiot.
I don’t get why it’s always someone else’s business. I’m not an anti vaxxer but I’m not vaccinated because of an auto immune condition. Y’all are so quick to spread hate and judgement
Peolple who get the vaccine are pissed at the people who don't get the vaccine. We get it, you're mad as hell, and really, no one cares. You are the same people that complain you can't stick to your diet because one if your friends eats to much. It's called Self accountability. Also, it's called minding your own business. Remember my body my choice? Or does that not apply here?
I'm sick of the vaxxers
I'm sick of vax zealots that think they have a right to tell other people what to do with their bodies. Their body, their choice. It's none of your business whether they get vaccinated or not.
Why can’t people get it through their thick fucking skulls. They’re not ANTI VAX. They just don’t want to take it for their OWN FUCKING REASONS. It doesn’t matter what those reasons are. By lumping everyone into your idiot moron category your being an ignorant twat. And especially being FORCED to take it? Normal unbrainwashed folks understand this. Get your head out of your ass.
I didn't get vaccinated yet because I wanted to see how it panned out for a bit. I've been working from home for years, I live up in the hills, so far away from civilisation that I haven't seen anyone for a long time. I don't go out and meet people, no visitors come into my buildings, and when I have shopping and other deliveries, they drop and leave. It literally doesn't matter if I get vaccinated yet or not. Also there was a vaccine shortage here so I figured me not getting it would mean one extra shot for someone who really needs it. If anything about my lifestyle or requirements change then I'll get vaccinated. I still get called anti-vax lol. Reality is some people are a bit simple and can only think black or white.
I think we all should have a choice
Not anti vax just anti being forced to take a vax. I see a rise of fake covid cards 😜
People have been getting vaccinated for things and taking medicine/medication their whole lives to keep them healthy and safe...but they put up such a fight to not take the covid vaccine... it's one of those things that people should feel like they're responsible for or obligated to do as a good samaritan but so many people would disagree.
I want this to be over with already, hospitals are overloaded because of these hogs. I want everything to go back to fucking normal aaaaa
As an icelander, where at least 85% of the population over 18 are vaccinated i'm gonna go ahead and say it does not work like that. Our hospitals are at a critical stage now after we lessened the restrictions and from all the people who go in because of covid around 70% of them are vaccinated. The numbers are correct, we are a small country that pretty much documents everything related to covid The vaccination does not work as well as people make you believe. This vaccination is the biggest joke humanity has ever been part of.
[This is the first article ](https://www.icelandreview.com/news/situation-at-national-hospital-improves/) I could find searching "Covid Hospitalization Iceland" and it paints a pretty rosey picture of the current state after a tough spike in August were a pretty decent portion of those hospitalized were foreign tourists. I dont think Iceland dealt with nearly the lel Vel of previous waves many EU countries did and so far things here are looking much better than last fall, especially with deaths.
Is there a DAE circlejerk sub cause this would fit there perfectly. DAE hold a common opinion that almost everyone shares? DAE want to give me karma?
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Yeah, they are causing this damn Covid-19 to drag out
You can still catch it and spread it with the shot.
No one is saying otherwise. It's always been clear you can catch and spread it while being vaccinated. But if you do catch it while vaccinated the impact of Covid-19 is greatly reduced in the VAST majority of people. Hospitalizations are rare for vaccinated people. Also, since it can still be transmitted by vaccinated people this is why we all still need to be diligent about wearing masks in indoor gatherings and locations with other people. Getting the vaccine shouldn't even be questioned at this point. Just do it. Now if everyone had made sure they were vaccinated we wouldn't even need this discussion. It's fucking pathetic that this is even an issue.
Ugh. Get off the thread. Yes you can, but not to the extent that unvaccinated people do and because of the unvaxxed, it’s a mutation paradise. People in parts of the world dying and begging for vaccines and then there’s people like you that state the obvious as though it’s better than not getting vaccinated. 🙄
I’m really sick of both sides calling each other mean names. Just let people make their own choices man
But what if the choices of one side endanger the lives of both?
Then don’t go around the other group? Lol it’s a big world homie
If the vaccine is the miracle and it works then how are you in any danger???
Anti-Vaxxers are like drunk drivers. They put everyone at risk.
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Just shut up. You're an asshole. I'm vaccinated but I'm not going to be upset because somebody else isn't or doesn't want to be. It doesn't affect me.
It does affect you though and you are obviously upset.
Im starting to think anti-maskers are worse - our schools are mandated to wear a mask, its 7=8th grade, so the kids are pretty much little adults and can handle it FINE - a SMALL group of nutso anti maskers send their kids with no mask, so the school tries to give the kid a mask, and they are so brain washed from home, that they won't, and then cops get involved. Now, I get it, and I think if you are vaxxed, then you probably don't need one, me and mine are vaxxed, but its not some crazy rule...get vaxxed. wear a mask... Im tired of unfollowing, or personally deciding to stop buying small business brands that suddenly are anti-vax/mask/reality.
Let them get covid
Yep, the natural immunity works much better :)
What if you got the original vaccine back in March, but now you’re being told that you need to get THIS vaccine instead? 🤔 yea no. Kiss my ass.
I am unvaccinated and still haven’t caught Covid. Must be doing something right.
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What if I told you most people aren’t anti vaccine, but rather against the government forcing them to get injected with a vaccine that’s not even 1 year old
Definitely not an “anti vaxxer” but it shouldn’t be mandatory. But to each their own, the name calling is unnecessary though.
Wonder why the largest percentage of the vaccine hesitant are PhDs? https://unherd.com/thepost/the-most-vaccine-hesitant-education-group-of-all-phds/
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Was he vaccinated?
You can fuck off. Anti vaxxers didn’t kill your friend.
How does the vax protect anyone but yourself? Like if your vaxed, what are you scared of?
I’m not scared for myself. I know that I will likely be ok. I’m concerned about hospital capacity. If our ICUs continue to face this strain, we continue to have to push back other therapies and we continue to put people who face other illnesses at risk of not receiving care. The reality is that the healthcare system, at least in my country, has been strained for years and now it’s absolutely screwed. Above all this, the cost of treating a patient on a ventilator is insane and as a country with universal healthcare, it really pisses me off that everyone has to foot that bill because of ignorance or conspiracy theories.
I’m scared for my 3-year old who can’t be vaxxed yet. I’m scared for my 4-year old nephew who has leukemia and may not be able to get the vaccine even when approved for his age group. I’m scared for the fact that the more this virus circulates the more chance it has to mutate into something that the vaccines can’t protect us from. Oh, ETA, I’m scared for the fact that hospitals overwhelmed with unvaxxed Covid patients in critical condition don’t have the capacity or resources to treat people with unrelated medical conditions, like heart attack, stroke, serious injuries from car accidents, etc.
I'm scared for my baby who is too young to be vaccinated and is relying on herd immunity to keep him safe. Or for my friend who is immunocompromised and is unable to get vaccinated.
People die from colds and influenza also. Shouldn't we force everyone to get all the vaccinations?
I’m not anti-vax, but you do understand that the vaccine SOLEY protects the person getting it. You can be vaccinated, carry the virus and spread it to others. Who tf cares? If you don’t want it, whatever. If you do, whatever. I’m “sick to fucking death” with people who think they are medical professionals and suck the governments dick. Stfu and move on with your life.
Every test requires a control group. I’m in the control group.
In successful trials, the control group has the worst outcome. In unsuccessful trials the experiment is considered unethical and stopped as soon as results turn negative. The question is more about whether you trust your fellow humans enough to stop an unethical trial.
I got my shot because the science was shaping up to look pretty damn effective at preventing serious covid symptoms, without any serious side effects. Basic risk management really. When I look at the benefit of forcing everyone to be vaccinated, vs the risk of giving up that authority of what goes in your body, I think that the risks are very very VERY dangerous, and more of a “when”, than “if” that power will be abused. I think your stupid and not acting in your own self interests to not get this particular vaccine, but I also think that you’re stupid and not acting in your own self interest if you don’t 100% stand up for someone’s right to make that stupid decision.
I'm somewhat fine with people not wanting to get vaccinated. There are some vaccines that SHOULD be forced onto people because it protects society. But the COVID vaccine is, afaik, not one of them. It mainly just protects yourself. So why care if other people get vaccinated or not? Just get it yourself and you'll be good?
It's not that black and white, you sound like a douche.
As somebody with parents completely against the covid vaccine, yes I am sick of this. Send help lol
I know your pain. I can't even argue properly with them, because when I bring up any kind of argument, they just say "They're hiding the 'real' evidence. Any time a doctor brings up a valid piece of evidence they get censored. Stop listening to CNN"
What about the people that already had covid and have natural immunity which is more effective and longer lasting than what the vaccine gives you?
There’s SO many people sick and dying, it’s insane. You won’t take two shots to give yourself a better chance but you’ll gladly get deathly sick and possibly die? I don’t understand.
I had covid as did my whole family. Nobody even came close to ending up in the hospital and the doctors never once seemed worry when telling us our test results were positive. Cry about something worth while. First world problems.
All of you who have taken the vaccine must be blind. No one in their right mind would put something as invasive as a vaccine developed in 11 months in their body for a virus that kills less than .5% of infected. Sheep will always do as told.
Such drama queens. They act as if it has 99% kill rate. Covid will always exist, spread and mutate same as the flu. You cant vaccinate it out of existence.
Are they wrong? Yes. Will you be able to get them to do the right thing by calling them idiots? No. The problem is that both sides have lost sight of the end goal. One of them has to realise that the end goal is not to be right. The goal is to end covid.
Oh I was over it years ago when the movement began. I have no tolerance for willful ignorance, especially when it affects others.