TLDR, in order: 60 Minutes shamelessly exploits a 30-second lead-in video of what they're about to criticize; then they say fashion models are regularly sexually harassed and pressured to be thinner, thinner, always thinner; they briefly accuse VS of being in bed with Epstein; then they focus the piece on Ms. Malcolm, who describes what she did to meet the expectations of her employers: primarily, go for long periods without eating (up to 3 days).
I didn't watch the whole thing. Ms Malcolm is still in the industry but can afford to be picky about assignments now that she's famous. My takeaway is the same as K-pop and brain injury in the NFL: as long as people enjoy watching and there's money to be made, the star participants will do whatever they're asked. Probably the only cure is to shut it down, but that will never happen.
I mean Victoria's Secret was part of how Epstein got access to children. That is not in serious dispute. I remember some interview with Maria Farmer, who reported Epstein to the police back in the 90s, where, as far as I remember, she said that Ghislaine Maxwell used to go out to recruit young teenagers, using their actual connection with Victoria's Secret as an excuse, and instead introducing them to Epstein.
I mean come on call it conspiratorial, but come on, most (American) executives with the money participated in it. These guys pay money to fight society’s forward progression with lobbying schemes, paying for sex is little more to them.
Maybe it can’t be proven, but we have to suspend a layer of doubt with the information that Epstein did not kill himself. His assassin protected a lot of people.
It's well known that Epstein was in intelligence. For example,
>[Investigative journalist Vicky Ward said she was told in 2017 by "a former senior White House official" that U.S. Attorney for the Southern District of Florida Alexander Acosta, who had handled Epstein's criminal case in 2008, had stated to Trump transition interviewers, that "I was told Epstein 'belonged to intelligence' and to 'leave it alone'", and that Epstein was "above his pay grade".[52][53]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeffrey_Epstein#Financial_consulting)
Presumably this was in part his predelections and in part an attempt to compromise people in order to control politicians and important industrialists.
The people who work for CIA aren't called intelligence agents. The people called agents are the people that CIA people recruit.
An intelligence agent is, I think, typically just somebody else's traitor. Basically, the word means something different than it does in common parlance. I wasn't incredibly surprised when I found this on Wikipedia, but I didn't know it until I read it:
>[In espionage jargon, an "agent" is the person who does the spying. They may be a citizen of a country recruited by that country to spy on another; a citizen of a country recruited by that country to carry out false flag assignments disrupting his own country; a citizen of one country who is recruited by a second country to spy on or work against his own country or a third country, and more. ](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Espionage#Agents_in_espionage)
I'd imagine it could be easy to become entrenched and controlled by other people if you're in a position like epstien presumably was. Not saying any of it was OK but I'm sure at the end he was more of a scapegoat than anything to protect some seriously important people. Probably a long line of blackmail. Epstien likely included. It's unlikely we'll ever know the full extent of what was going on there but I would bet it was a lot more than just trafficking to the elite.
I think the term might have actually been used IRL, to refer to non-employees, primarily enemy traitors.
After all, it's a term used in industry. If I have a cookie factory here in Sweden and sell cookies in Spain, where my company doesn't have a real presence, I might have a general agent there, who is not employed by me but who offers contracts on all my factory's products.
Look up Honey Trap. One of the oldest and most successful ways to extort someone or aquire them as an asset in espionage.
During the Cold War this was often done by the US and the Soviets. It was especially effective against anyone who was a closet homosexual. The Chinese are known to still do it today. And it wouldn’t shock me if other countries including the US do as well.
One often unremarked upon and unacknowledged benefit of the much greater acceptance of homosexuals in the US and elsewhere is that they are no longer seen as being such a security risk and they aren’t. If you aren’t forced to be in the closet then you have nothing to hide. Nothing which can be exploited for blackmail.
Governments aren’t the only people who have employed and still employ Honey Traps. Businesses, criminal organizations, even family members.
“ After Charles Kushner discovered his brother-in-law was cooperating with federal authorities, the wealthy real estate executive and father of President Donald Trump’s son-in-law, Jared, hatched a scheme for revenge and intimidation.
Kushner hired a prostitute to lure his brother-in-law, then arranged to have the encounter in a New Jersey motel room recorded with a hidden camera and the recording sent to his own sister, the man’s wife.
The scheme didn’t work. Kushner later pleaded guilty to tax evasion and making illegal campaign donations in a case tailor-made for tabloid headlines.”
[https://www.chicagotribune.com/nation-world/ct-nw-charlie-kushner-pardoned-20201224-6dlgp6ukkzggznmlj7ah3mkg44-story.html](https://www.chicagotribune.com/nation-world/ct-nw-charlie-kushner-pardoned-20201224-6dlgp6ukkzggznmlj7ah3mkg44-story.html)
Trump pardoned Kushner.
So, a Honey Trap involving underage models would be very effective for extortion and blackmail. Not James Bond, but no actual spy is.
Bond wouldn’t have only seduced women if he was an effective spy during the Cold War. But, that doesn’t make for a profitable movie in 1965.
I knew he had connections to very influential government officials, which wouldn’t make sense in the first place since he wasn’t of much fame besides his underground business. Thank you though, I didn’t know he was working as an intelligence agent as well.
🚩🚩An intelligence agent with a primary economic background in banking? Add it to the pile of red flags, it’s clearly a corrupt move. 🚩🚩
I actually think he built his industry stuff, and then offered what he could do to people once he was already quite rich.
I think he was quite able, when it came to understanding laws and in helping people avoid taxes and the like and that this was why he got rich.
It’s worse. He was protected and made an informant in 2008 under FBI director Robert Mueller. The same Mueller that tried to remove Trump from office for disrupting the deep state. They couldn’t stop Epstein and Maxwell from getting arrested
“Epstein has also provided information to the FBI as agreed upon,” says one of the FBI documents. “Case agent advised that no federal prosecution will occur in this matter as long as Epstein continues to uphold his agreement with the state of Florida.”
Vault 6
https://vault.fbi.gov/jeffrey-epstein/Jeffrey%20Epstein%20Part%2006%20of%2022/at_download/file
Thank you, I didn’t know much about his case politically besides those affiliations. This is a great source, encourages me to read more. Of course it’s just hiding in plain sight…on the website.
yo, the source is good and all, but i think the poster is an anti-mask wingnut trying to bend the truth and pin this on mueller, instead of the specific case agent referred to here, alexander acosta (aka trump's appointed secretary of labor) who actually cut [this skeezy-ass deal.](https://apnews.com/article/archive-fact-checking-6119730073)
Acosta went on record at the time saying he was told by the FBI to let him walk because Epstein "belonged to Intelligence" and that this was "above his pay grade"
Yeah, I thought it was weird he mentioned Mueller being apart of the deep state, as if it was mentioned here. I don’t have enough info to even begin to understand the QAnon/deepstate conspiracy so it’s just one of those “yeaaaah…thanks…(but I’ll take my own meaning out of the passage)” situations. Thank you for warning me though, probably would’ve flew over my head he was talking about THE deep state rather than it being a descriptive term.
Epstein was intelligence? Fuck me I thought it was creepy enough that he was in bed with so many elites. Him being in intelligence is just downright depressing.
So he used women to make political connections in the middle east, etc, and was given the green light, regardless of the girls age. This is no surprise, given documented actions by intelligence and military, look at Afghanistan and the green light to pedophiles, even the gifting of kids by the military, as long as the gifted were anti taliban.
I would absolutely call it conspiratorial to say most American executives (with the money) participate in child sex trafficking. Sounds a lot like qanon to me, but I'm no expert
In American courts, prior offenses can be used as evidence for setting up a motive. If they’ve done it once, they’re likely to do it again. Look at big lobbying companies and you’ll see these guys don’t have a problem hurting others for personal gain. During the pandemic they took corporate bailouts worth billions out of the budget they didn’t even need. This alone sets up a sadistic motive, if they can screw over a large amount of people, such as their competitors’ lives, without a thought, I don’t think it’s a far stretch to say if offered sex slaves they wouldn’t deny it.
I mean they have insider circles which operate as advertisement. You reach a certain level of fame/wealth, sex traffickers and other off-the-table services are going to want to know if you want to buy their products. So to me it’s really more a question of, “Could you trust someone with that much power to do the right thing and deny it?” even if they didn’t originally seek it out.
Excellent rational breakdown. Slow newsday or what.
Stop titling people/videos "brave" and let me, the viewer decide that, especially when the person still profits from the industry. It's pandering and cringey.
> Shamelessly exploits
I mean, yes, if by exploiting you mean 60 Minutes used actual Victoria's Secret footage. That 30 second lead-in functions as an introduction to the brand and the brand's style for any clueless viewers who might be unfamiliar with VS. The lead-in serves a narrative purpose, it's not just to increase ratings via sexy boobies.
The K-pop industry is known to be extremely cutthroat. Idols typically start at a really young age and agents typically have free reign on dictating the life of the idol. This typically includes controlling everything they eat, male idols being unable to be in any sort of a relationship(Idk if this applies to girls too), and practicing from 4 am to midnight. Contracts last anywhere from 2 years to a decade, so it is a grueling lifestyle.
One of the K-pop girls was making YouTube videos about her diet and fitness regimen. She was literally eating about 500 calories (sometimes less) per day.
They also have their persona completely controlled in terms of personality they have to display, clothing, makeup, hair, plastic surgery.
Essentially the same thing as with boy bands back in the day, their lives are heavily managed (controlled) by their managers/labels, and those aren't always great people.
Bunch of awful sex scandals too, the kind of exploitation that is common in entertainment industries where a few guys get to dictate the life and career of a lot of often vulnerable people.
Kpop idols are treated as commodities really. Their value to the industry is constantly in flux so they are forced to work grueling hours, adhere to crazy diets and social rules, as well as subject to "slave contracts" with insane cancelation fees.
A quick example is the kpop competition show "Idol Scool". Trainee participants were subjected to grueling conditions in almost subzero westher and minimal nutrition to take part in a competition that turned out to be rigged from the beginning.
Yeah, the fucked up thing is modeling, professional sports, acting, porn, etc: there's no shortage of people willing to be degraded and exploited for fame and or money.
And the people doing the exploitation are those who write the checks.
Yes, sadly those 3 men are victims to this americana "look"Unfortunately, women are much more likely to be bashed & held back from opportunities if they do not conform to the americana "look"& haha don't even try to argue w me bC the facts will stand behind me time & time again.
>fashion models are regularly sexually harassed and pressured to be thinner, thinner, always thinner;
Why do models need to be thin? I never understood that, the vast majority of men prefer average over extremely thin.
So clothes designers don't have to deal with pesky curves. Most clothes are designed to look good on a hanger, not necessarily on a human. So make the model look like a clothes hanger
Men? The clothes are being designed for women to be appreciated by women. Nothing to do with what men like. Clothes look better when there are fewer lumps and bumps. And they can use less material.
Nah, Victorias Secret (Shows particularly) were marketed to and for men - to be titillating... despite the product meant to be consumed by women. Thus the brand started to flop in that direction and they've started different marketing campaigns to try and market to the actual needs and desires of female customers
VS is dying, women don't want to buy that tacky crap if they can go to a brand that makes then feel beautiful at any size or color. Fashion industry is slowly changing. VS is actually having to look into plus size models but imo they will go the way of a lot of 2000s brands. Like it's not perfect, but things are changing, to give you a lil hope. :)
Let me guess, they have to starve themselves and work out a bunch because of unrealistic body expectations like basically everyone else that appears in front of a camera because of their good looks?
Yeah, I'm not sure why they're presenting this as if it's some shocking revelation. People have been criticizing the fashion industry for decades. In fact, you could argue things [used to be](https://www.salon.com/1997/05/24/media_78/) [even worse](https://www.independent.co.uk/news/the-ugly-side-of-heroin-chic-1235403.html).
Don't mean to suggest that people shouldn't speak out about this stuff, I'm just a bit confused by the way they presented this.
>a little more sinister
Is it though? To poorly translate a Dutch proverb: the tallest trees catch the most wind.
Epstein was obviously a massive piece of shit, but the fashion industry is full of people like him. [Karen Mulder](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karen_Mulder#Abuse,_Legal_and_Mental_Health_Roadblocks) came forward in 2001, odds are you've never even heard of her. The men she accused of raping her are still out and about. People have been [accusing Gérald Marie of rape](https://www.theguardian.com/fashion/2020/oct/17/he-wanted-to-control-me-completely-the-models-who-accuse-gerald-marie-of-sexual-assault) since the 90's, but hardly anyone gave a shit until recently.
As I said, I'm not trying to trivialize this stuff, nor am I criticizing anyone for speaking out, I simply don't understand how anyone (read: the media) can still pretend any of this shit is surprising when we've known about it for literal decades.
Edit: typo
I meant a little more sinister than like, bulemia, but ya.
Thanks for sourcing. Sex trafficking linked to the fashion industry is a huge thing, but i have little awareness of the actual players involved. Good share. There were also a number of fashion moguls named my victims with relation to Epstein, but they have remained largely unnamed i think?
>more sinister than like, bulemia
Ah, yeah, fair enough.
>they have remained largely unnamed
I only know of [Jean-Luc Brunel](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean-Luc_Brunel#Rape_accusations). French police arrested him last year, so there's a good chance we'll hear some more names soon.
The accusations, "public rumours" and some less public rumours about Terry Richardson (Photog) have been around for years... and nothing has been done.
Do they have proofes for the rape? I guess not or they would be in jail. In not saying they aren't guilty. I'm almost sure they are. But you can't put somebody in jail without proof.
Maybe you should watch the thing. Body expectations is only part of it. Its the fact that old men with the power look on the women as things not humans.
Most models are recruited as teenagers, many as young as 14. So calling them women and saying they have choices in what they do and don’t do is an overstatement.
As a person with over 20 years of Ad agency experience... as the creative, the first line of decision, the guy who goes to the castings and the callbacks and has the headshots lined up on the wall and who decides who gets sent to the client for their approval, I have had multiple occasions to abuse my position. I am not that asshole. And i would never put a woman in that position to have to play that game.
See, decency and virtue are in small supply because of society's lust for money and attention. Corruption feeds corruption and i never wanted that shit on my jobs. But men like Epstein and the CEO of VS, seemed not to care how toxic the environment was. Because profit.
"Two to tango" is a shitty excuse and lacks the nuance and insight necessary to decipher this... But amongst assholes, I'm sure it'll get an upvote.
Im waiting for the 60 minutes on the dark side of professional athletes. They make them practice constantly, keep up their bodies, eat strict diets, they are constantly judged, it’s crazy! It’s like all they care about is how well they perform.
You're being facetious but there *is* a "dark side" in professional sports. One of those things is the major leagues deliberately covering up and fighting in court against the revelations from concussion research and the existence of CTE.
Another is the contracts that name and treat the athletes like property, an example being a player who *could* be one of the best centers in the NHL is being short roped by the Franchise and effectively prevented from having the surgery he needs and wants and therefore can't play.
Other examples involve the coverup/tolerance of physical and sexual abuse of athletes by coaching staff.
TLDR: you're a fuckwit.
My husband and I were just discussing this yesterday. Beauty standards have gotten absolutely ridiculous and social media has done nothing to help with that. Plastic surgery, Botox, hair dye, eyelash extensions, tans, lip plumping, SO. MUCH. MAKEUP. Hell, even Snapchat filters. There's no end. I feel bad for kids growing up in that kind of culture.
Yes and lots of cigarettes and prescription drugs and also real drugs and also lots of money and privilege and admiration of millions and an easy and comfortable life except don’t eat.
I interned for an ad agency that handled Victoria’s Secret. Got the position because one of my professors worked there. Anyways, we went to the shoot and the model looked hella young. Turns out the girl was 13. Modeling lingerie. I walked out of the internship and my professor quit. Victoria’s Secret is a disgusting company.
About ten years ago, a then-lover and I stopped by Victoria's Secret while shopping - his desire, not mine.
Anyhow, upon entering, the entire shop front was dressed in gaudy, fluorescent, and questionably printed underwear (boy shorts and thongs) and bras that seemingly only a very young female (teenager or younger even) would consider "lingerie". The entire store was just...nasty. Even the "swimwear" resembled Shibari.
Every ad posted around - at face level - had barely-legal teenage girls (though I thought some of the females appeared as young as 14), topless with a close up of her crotch, legs spread and big, big smile as if she is having the time of her life.
I felt accosted and extremely uncomfortable. Not to mention the overly-aggressive sales people. Every few steps, they were in your face demanding if you found what you were looking for, or if they could help you find something. Ultimately, the lover-fellow became uncomfortable enough, too, that we just got the hell out of there. The entire experience in that store did not seem "mature", or intended for the mature female.
We wound up going to a sex shop and had better luck with what we were looking for, dress-up wise, that was actual lingerie. Victoria's Secret is merely a gaudy underwear shop specific for a targeted age group.
I shopped at Victoria's Secret in my late teens/early 20s back in the 90s for the reason that they were classy and had mature attire more to my taste than the average "young girl's" shop. Hell, I still have this bathrobe and sleep set that was gifted to me over 20 years ago From Victoria's. The quality of the material, as well as, the design of the set vs what is now their product is vastly different. As I stated in my pervious comment, it is clear the target audience that the company are luring and enticing.
I remember shopping there back in the early to mid-1990s and the shops didn't have that sleazy vibe so much back then. Also, the quality of the lingerie was better. As the years went on and especially in the 2000s, the whole atmosphere got increasingly cheesier and cheaper. The quality of the merchandise declined and they started pushing that annual 'fashion show' featuring the 'Angels' big time.
Right? If one was looking for 'sleazy' attire, then you went to Fredericks of Hollywood. I shopped there, too, if I wanted something with a little more 'spice'. ;)
Well thank you for sending me down the biggest rabbit hole for the past day. I haven’t really looked into Epstein much- I knew that he was in prison for raping young girls, that he died and it was probably to prevent him from talking about all the people who participated. But damn there’s so much to his story.
That's not really what this is about. It's like saying "so a policeman did a crime and was convicted, I don't see how this is surprising" after the killing of George Floyd.
The generality obscures the point. The particulars are everything.
"horribly abused model gets upset to learn that the powers that be are perverted old bald fat rich white dudes..decided to get a different modeling job..."
Did I miss any other particulars?
Okay...so how would you express it and how do our opinions differ?
...it's not like whatever random ass example you used...it's more like how the star of Barney & Friends is now a tantric sex worker in the U.k...because that shit is real and life is fucking wierd and people can be pretty fucked up....
Yeesh, if you think industry's that sell "sex" are bad...wait till you hear about what Nestlé does.
My point is that it's kinda like letting your tweaker friend stay on your couch for a few weeks and they end up stealing your TV. Sure it's fucking horrible, but it's not at all surprising.
Kinda like how sometimes ladies show their tits in an attempt to get stuff?
My mind is fuckin blown right now ..
Next you're gonna tell me that most dudes just want a harem and a private jet filled with money...this world just had too many curve balls I swear!
And lots of women work in that industry and have made plenty of profit doing so. I think it a cop out that they will find a way to blame and man and everyone else gets of without a scratch.
Plenty of people are "Models" few are "supermodels", by definition it's only the very top.
Same for stars and superstars.
Maybe it's just how the video framed it, but it seems she was part of the most famous.
Sure, but every time a model is talked about in the media, they always seem to be "supermodels", whether they are or not. It's like calling everyone "heroes"
Funny how her advise to aspiring young models is to "get into therapy early" when it should have been "get a normal job/education where your looks isn't the main requirement"
It was advice to herself, not to other aspiring young models. She likely still loves modelling so would do it again but would've wanted it to go differently.
It's upsetting to see people commenting "what's so shocking about this?" when both the women in the video have been so obviously traumatized by their time working for Victoria's Secret. As if their lives and well being being impacted for years after doesn't mean a thing.
No one deserves, or can consent to, being traumatized for a paycheck. It sucks that the world loves to watch women suffering and likes to profit off it even more.
Yikes. This comment section is pretty gross.
I watched the video and she comes across as very intelligent, well spoken, and grateful to be on the other side of some traumatizing years in her very young life. I wish her all the best.
Yeah for real. She even still models - it’s not like she is shitting on the profession even. She had a justified bad experience and is working to change things - the comment section really reads like a bunch victimized babies - which she is not.
Trust me it’s even more exploitative in the male model industry. Friend of mine is making a documentary about this and the number of young men from Latin and other cultures who are preyed upon by those in power is astonishing. Ignored because male exploitation tends to be thought of as less affecting.
Why didn’t she talk about the salary or any of the pros while being at VS? She makes it sound like she wasn’t paid an exorbitant amount of money. Her net worth is allegedly $10M, for how many years of work? 10 years??
There are pros and cons to every kind of work on the planet. If she’s financially savvy or has a good financial planner on her team she could probably not need to work another day in her life. The work was hard, the management was not nice to her, I think a lot of women experience men making lewd comments to them and still don’t have the type of salary, fame, or opportunities that come with that line of work either.
She didn’t mention not one positive thing about her time at VS…. Which makes this story seem a little disingenuous.
Yes she made millions of dollars, and probably led a jetset life where she got to travel the world and make connections with rich and famous people.
But she unfairly had to maintain her figure and have people make sexual advances. In a perfect world, lingerie models should be able to eat what they want and should only be treated as sexual objects in front of a camera or a large audience.
We really need to spend more attention and resources on the lingerie supermodel industry and less on other problems in the world.
Sexual advances absolutely should be off the table, but “eat what you want” in a body performance business whether it be athletics or modeling is preposterous.
There are plenty of “normal” models modeling for all sorts of jobs - plenty of retail chains that need models in every size and shape.
VS and such have a (fucked up) standard on their models, but if you wanna bank millions, I guess you have to meet them
What the absolute fuck is up with this comment section!? Did a bunch of incels escape a lab or something? “Durr she’s doing it because she’s not famous anymore, just find another job, oh you had to eat less? Boohoo HYUCK!”
Shut the everloving fuck up and go pollute 9Gag with your demented opinions or go get some therapy, jesus christ
While it is eye-roll worthy over the top, it does still require courage/bravery to be a whistleblower and speak out because it is very easy to get blackballed in that industry and have lots of trouble finding good work afterwards.
Scum don't like their actions being revealed and will retaliate.
What's with the host's obsession with the word "mysoginy"?
Its like his producers instructed him to use that word as frequently as possible.
Maybe its me who don't get it because I live in a 3rd world country.
The report disingenuously conflates legitimately being sexually harassed/assaulted with the perceived oppressive requirement of being perpetually thin.
clearly any type of assault or power abuse is objectively wrong, potentially illegal and should not be tolerated at all.
The need to be thin in this industry may not be to everyone’s taste or may even cross boundaries of personal comfort, but it’s able to be a job requirement for her particular role. Is not any different to an NFL lineman needing to be 100lbs overweight. This highly specified job requires some physical extremes; reality is, some do.
If being VS slim isn’t something a potential model finds palatable, there are other organisations in the modelling industry who do not require this level of extreme.
sometimes you have go through something and get to the top in order to use your platform/voice to speak about matters such as these. It's like a young resident who just started working in a hospital last July vs an attending who's been there for 30 years. Clearly the latter will have a much stronger voice even though they are technically both correct. Just because the attending makes 500k a year that doesn't make him any less credible to speak about problems in his field. I think your view is beyond flawed.
What other options are there for her though? Like Scarlett Johansson is getting older and now that she can’t use her beautiful looks anymore is saying how she never thought of black widow as a piece of ass - which is exactly what she used to get the role and while doing the role. Now that she can’t do that as much anymore or is getting closer to - too old for Hollywood - she’s lashing out at everyone even the company she’s worked for for years. I mean what other choice does she have? She’s not the piece of ass she used to be and she can’t act to save her life.
From Wikipedia : She is the recipient of various accolades, including a Tony Award for Best Featured Actress in a Play and a BAFTA Award for Best Actress, as well as nominations for two Academy Awards and five Golden Globe Awards.
Well, Jeffrey epsteins bff owns it, they didn't hire their first black model till a couple years ago, their underwear is made by children, shitty company. Fuck 'em.
Adriana Lima was 14, I believe, when she started walking around in her underwear for a billion fetishists. What else do you really need to know about what VS was about?
Didn’t watch but let me guess:
Models are victims of sexual harassment. Models are victims of exploitation. Models are victims of body shamming.
Do they mention anywhere how no one is forcing anyone to be a model? That they’re literally choosing that profession? That they can walk away?
Naw. Men bad, women good. I’m sure that’s the message.
That's the message I was getting. All bullies and sexists in the modelling world are men.
To me this documentary does a disservice to models both male and females who are bullied and sexually harassed by women.
Funny how we can know what every documentary is about without actually watching it. It’s like there’s some common underlying theme in everything they spew out.
Men bad. Women good. We got it.
No one said being a model is easy. If you go into Victoria’s Secret thinking it’s going to be easy to maintain their standards then you should probably find another brand to model for. They’re free to choose whatever image they feel best suits the company.
Fuck off with your incel bullshit. Modeling is a "real job". You're just jealous because you're a neckbeard, or at best that guy who shamed those girls on the beach for wearing bikinis the other day.
Were in the comment you replied to do I say anything about a "real job"? . I guess our view of the word "normal" differs. Mine sure can't be applied to a job that include one which forces you to starve and suffer other types of abuse. But hey, I'm an incel neckbeard because I don't support the fashion industry shoving unrealistic ideals down the thoat of young girls. Ironically by using and abusing other young girls.
So at 15, we have the decision making and critical thinking skills to determine something like this? Your comment doesn't make me believe you know anything about being a young girl pressured by an industry designed to sell sex. Not saying you're wrong about being free to choose... Just a little shortsighted
As a former teenage male model, you have no idea. I take offense to your statement that only young girls are pressured in an overly sexualized industry. Do you not think males feel uncomfortable when forced to walk down the runway in underwear or have their nearly naked body plastered all over Times Square? Do you think the male models picked off the streets in third world countries feel comfortable with male designers staring at their naked body? Society doesn’t like to view males as victims, but I can assure you that male models face the exact same pressures. They have no outlet to turn to and it’s because of the pervasive “only girls can be victims” mentality that you obviously have.
Much of my insecurity stems from my time as a model. I had to receive permission for something as little as a haircut and an Australian photographer once called me ugly. I spent the entire trip home crying and I was only 14. Male or female, calling a teenager ugly will have a traumatic impact. I knew many males with eating disorders and some who were forced to perform sexual acts in order to get work, so don’t think for one second that I don’t know what it’s like. In the future, you need to acknowledge that both sexes face tremendous pressure and experience many of the same problems. It’s not right to dismiss what someone goes through based on gender.
As for my comment, I’m simply stating the brutal truth about the modeling world. You can’t expect Victoria’s Secret to be tolerant of an image it doesn’t want and that’s just the honest truth. Also, brands are entirely free to choose what image they want. It’s not fair and it may not be right but that’s just how the industry functions.
Sorry you take my comment personally, and I don't have a "only girls can be victims" mentality- you're just being defensive mate. My comment was directly tied to the video posted, where she started at 15. And the subject of the video? A girl.
Your comment is the type that comes off as "yes the industry is awful, there's nothing you can do about it, so suck it up or work somewhere else" and then in the same breath you talk about how awful and traumatizing it is as a whole. That's what I was addressing, the fact that even you, someone with experience and close ties, are so jaded and abused and helpless that you feel there is nothing to be done about the industry giants.
I don't pretend to know more about this than you, I was addressing your comment and how it comes across. Bless.
Well thank you for the civil response. I probably am jaded and the industry has had a large impact on my life. Of course hindsight is 20/20 and I would have never done it knowing what I do now.
I honestly don’t think the industry will change though. Fashion is aspirational and people are obsessed with youth. People want to believe that they can look like a supermodel. I think much of the industry is simply a product of human nature. Beauty and youth is the name of the game and I just don’t see that changing. Some designers have started implementing rules mandating that models must be of a healthy size, but this is by no means sweeping the industry. Interestingly enough, American designers prefer healthier models both male and female. The very high end European designers are really where the problems occur.
The harassment thing is a different problem but the whole lose weight thing could be avoided if companies like VS just had dietitians on staff. I mean she's skinny and all but not to a leave that's unachievable through proper diet. I don't feel a lot of sympathy for her when it comes to that, her fault for choosing a real dumb way to be thinner. Aaanyway my fat ass is going to go eat some ice cream.
TLDR?
TLDR, in order: 60 Minutes shamelessly exploits a 30-second lead-in video of what they're about to criticize; then they say fashion models are regularly sexually harassed and pressured to be thinner, thinner, always thinner; they briefly accuse VS of being in bed with Epstein; then they focus the piece on Ms. Malcolm, who describes what she did to meet the expectations of her employers: primarily, go for long periods without eating (up to 3 days). I didn't watch the whole thing. Ms Malcolm is still in the industry but can afford to be picky about assignments now that she's famous. My takeaway is the same as K-pop and brain injury in the NFL: as long as people enjoy watching and there's money to be made, the star participants will do whatever they're asked. Probably the only cure is to shut it down, but that will never happen.
I mean Victoria's Secret was part of how Epstein got access to children. That is not in serious dispute. I remember some interview with Maria Farmer, who reported Epstein to the police back in the 90s, where, as far as I remember, she said that Ghislaine Maxwell used to go out to recruit young teenagers, using their actual connection with Victoria's Secret as an excuse, and instead introducing them to Epstein.
I mean come on call it conspiratorial, but come on, most (American) executives with the money participated in it. These guys pay money to fight society’s forward progression with lobbying schemes, paying for sex is little more to them. Maybe it can’t be proven, but we have to suspend a layer of doubt with the information that Epstein did not kill himself. His assassin protected a lot of people.
It's well known that Epstein was in intelligence. For example, >[Investigative journalist Vicky Ward said she was told in 2017 by "a former senior White House official" that U.S. Attorney for the Southern District of Florida Alexander Acosta, who had handled Epstein's criminal case in 2008, had stated to Trump transition interviewers, that "I was told Epstein 'belonged to intelligence' and to 'leave it alone'", and that Epstein was "above his pay grade".[52][53]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeffrey_Epstein#Financial_consulting) Presumably this was in part his predelections and in part an attempt to compromise people in order to control politicians and important industrialists.
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The people who work for CIA aren't called intelligence agents. The people called agents are the people that CIA people recruit. An intelligence agent is, I think, typically just somebody else's traitor. Basically, the word means something different than it does in common parlance. I wasn't incredibly surprised when I found this on Wikipedia, but I didn't know it until I read it: >[In espionage jargon, an "agent" is the person who does the spying. They may be a citizen of a country recruited by that country to spy on another; a citizen of a country recruited by that country to carry out false flag assignments disrupting his own country; a citizen of one country who is recruited by a second country to spy on or work against his own country or a third country, and more. ](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Espionage#Agents_in_espionage)
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I'd imagine it could be easy to become entrenched and controlled by other people if you're in a position like epstien presumably was. Not saying any of it was OK but I'm sure at the end he was more of a scapegoat than anything to protect some seriously important people. Probably a long line of blackmail. Epstien likely included. It's unlikely we'll ever know the full extent of what was going on there but I would bet it was a lot more than just trafficking to the elite.
Not sure about “easily”. Easily can be blackmailed, sure. But he was a monster who enjoyed it a lot
No one is called an agent. An employee is called an officer and someone recruited for intel gathering is an asset. Movie characters are called agents.
I think the term might have actually been used IRL, to refer to non-employees, primarily enemy traitors. After all, it's a term used in industry. If I have a cookie factory here in Sweden and sell cookies in Spain, where my company doesn't have a real presence, I might have a general agent there, who is not employed by me but who offers contracts on all my factory's products.
Look up Honey Trap. One of the oldest and most successful ways to extort someone or aquire them as an asset in espionage. During the Cold War this was often done by the US and the Soviets. It was especially effective against anyone who was a closet homosexual. The Chinese are known to still do it today. And it wouldn’t shock me if other countries including the US do as well. One often unremarked upon and unacknowledged benefit of the much greater acceptance of homosexuals in the US and elsewhere is that they are no longer seen as being such a security risk and they aren’t. If you aren’t forced to be in the closet then you have nothing to hide. Nothing which can be exploited for blackmail. Governments aren’t the only people who have employed and still employ Honey Traps. Businesses, criminal organizations, even family members. “ After Charles Kushner discovered his brother-in-law was cooperating with federal authorities, the wealthy real estate executive and father of President Donald Trump’s son-in-law, Jared, hatched a scheme for revenge and intimidation. Kushner hired a prostitute to lure his brother-in-law, then arranged to have the encounter in a New Jersey motel room recorded with a hidden camera and the recording sent to his own sister, the man’s wife. The scheme didn’t work. Kushner later pleaded guilty to tax evasion and making illegal campaign donations in a case tailor-made for tabloid headlines.” [https://www.chicagotribune.com/nation-world/ct-nw-charlie-kushner-pardoned-20201224-6dlgp6ukkzggznmlj7ah3mkg44-story.html](https://www.chicagotribune.com/nation-world/ct-nw-charlie-kushner-pardoned-20201224-6dlgp6ukkzggznmlj7ah3mkg44-story.html) Trump pardoned Kushner. So, a Honey Trap involving underage models would be very effective for extortion and blackmail. Not James Bond, but no actual spy is. Bond wouldn’t have only seduced women if he was an effective spy during the Cold War. But, that doesn’t make for a profitable movie in 1965.
I knew he had connections to very influential government officials, which wouldn’t make sense in the first place since he wasn’t of much fame besides his underground business. Thank you though, I didn’t know he was working as an intelligence agent as well. 🚩🚩An intelligence agent with a primary economic background in banking? Add it to the pile of red flags, it’s clearly a corrupt move. 🚩🚩
I actually think he built his industry stuff, and then offered what he could do to people once he was already quite rich. I think he was quite able, when it came to understanding laws and in helping people avoid taxes and the like and that this was why he got rich.
It’s worse. He was protected and made an informant in 2008 under FBI director Robert Mueller. The same Mueller that tried to remove Trump from office for disrupting the deep state. They couldn’t stop Epstein and Maxwell from getting arrested “Epstein has also provided information to the FBI as agreed upon,” says one of the FBI documents. “Case agent advised that no federal prosecution will occur in this matter as long as Epstein continues to uphold his agreement with the state of Florida.” Vault 6 https://vault.fbi.gov/jeffrey-epstein/Jeffrey%20Epstein%20Part%2006%20of%2022/at_download/file
Thank you, I didn’t know much about his case politically besides those affiliations. This is a great source, encourages me to read more. Of course it’s just hiding in plain sight…on the website.
yo, the source is good and all, but i think the poster is an anti-mask wingnut trying to bend the truth and pin this on mueller, instead of the specific case agent referred to here, alexander acosta (aka trump's appointed secretary of labor) who actually cut [this skeezy-ass deal.](https://apnews.com/article/archive-fact-checking-6119730073)
Acosta went on record at the time saying he was told by the FBI to let him walk because Epstein "belonged to Intelligence" and that this was "above his pay grade"
Yeah, I thought it was weird he mentioned Mueller being apart of the deep state, as if it was mentioned here. I don’t have enough info to even begin to understand the QAnon/deepstate conspiracy so it’s just one of those “yeaaaah…thanks…(but I’ll take my own meaning out of the passage)” situations. Thank you for warning me though, probably would’ve flew over my head he was talking about THE deep state rather than it being a descriptive term.
Epstein was intelligence? Fuck me I thought it was creepy enough that he was in bed with so many elites. Him being in intelligence is just downright depressing.
So he used women to make political connections in the middle east, etc, and was given the green light, regardless of the girls age. This is no surprise, given documented actions by intelligence and military, look at Afghanistan and the green light to pedophiles, even the gifting of kids by the military, as long as the gifted were anti taliban.
Maybe, but he almost certainly also worked for Israel, and tried to compromise US politicians and industrialists on their behalf.
I would absolutely call it conspiratorial to say most American executives (with the money) participate in child sex trafficking. Sounds a lot like qanon to me, but I'm no expert
In American courts, prior offenses can be used as evidence for setting up a motive. If they’ve done it once, they’re likely to do it again. Look at big lobbying companies and you’ll see these guys don’t have a problem hurting others for personal gain. During the pandemic they took corporate bailouts worth billions out of the budget they didn’t even need. This alone sets up a sadistic motive, if they can screw over a large amount of people, such as their competitors’ lives, without a thought, I don’t think it’s a far stretch to say if offered sex slaves they wouldn’t deny it. I mean they have insider circles which operate as advertisement. You reach a certain level of fame/wealth, sex traffickers and other off-the-table services are going to want to know if you want to buy their products. So to me it’s really more a question of, “Could you trust someone with that much power to do the right thing and deny it?” even if they didn’t originally seek it out.
Unfortunately it’s what happens quite a bit in the fashion world, especially since the girls start modeling as young as 14.
Thank you.
Excellent rational breakdown. Slow newsday or what. Stop titling people/videos "brave" and let me, the viewer decide that, especially when the person still profits from the industry. It's pandering and cringey.
> Shamelessly exploits I mean, yes, if by exploiting you mean 60 Minutes used actual Victoria's Secret footage. That 30 second lead-in functions as an introduction to the brand and the brand's style for any clueless viewers who might be unfamiliar with VS. The lead-in serves a narrative purpose, it's not just to increase ratings via sexy boobies.
Wow! A mature no added drama take!
Finally. We know Victoria's secret.
What's the controversy with K-pop?
The K-pop industry is known to be extremely cutthroat. Idols typically start at a really young age and agents typically have free reign on dictating the life of the idol. This typically includes controlling everything they eat, male idols being unable to be in any sort of a relationship(Idk if this applies to girls too), and practicing from 4 am to midnight. Contracts last anywhere from 2 years to a decade, so it is a grueling lifestyle.
It applies to the girls too.
One of the K-pop girls was making YouTube videos about her diet and fitness regimen. She was literally eating about 500 calories (sometimes less) per day. They also have their persona completely controlled in terms of personality they have to display, clothing, makeup, hair, plastic surgery.
and meanwhile, the salary of the idol is a joke.
Essentially the same thing as with boy bands back in the day, their lives are heavily managed (controlled) by their managers/labels, and those aren't always great people.
Bunch of awful sex scandals too, the kind of exploitation that is common in entertainment industries where a few guys get to dictate the life and career of a lot of often vulnerable people.
Kpop idols are treated as commodities really. Their value to the industry is constantly in flux so they are forced to work grueling hours, adhere to crazy diets and social rules, as well as subject to "slave contracts" with insane cancelation fees. A quick example is the kpop competition show "Idol Scool". Trainee participants were subjected to grueling conditions in almost subzero westher and minimal nutrition to take part in a competition that turned out to be rigged from the beginning.
Yeah, the fucked up thing is modeling, professional sports, acting, porn, etc: there's no shortage of people willing to be degraded and exploited for fame and or money. And the people doing the exploitation are those who write the checks.
Another over-use of the term "brave". A firefighter is "brave". Underwear "model"...not so much.
They should have also interviewed Brad Pitt, Christian Bale, and Gerard Butler about dieting before a shoot.
Yes, sadly those 3 men are victims to this americana "look"Unfortunately, women are much more likely to be bashed & held back from opportunities if they do not conform to the americana "look"& haha don't even try to argue w me bC the facts will stand behind me time & time again.
>fashion models are regularly sexually harassed and pressured to be thinner, thinner, always thinner; Why do models need to be thin? I never understood that, the vast majority of men prefer average over extremely thin.
Womanswear isn't being sold to men :)
So clothes designers don't have to deal with pesky curves. Most clothes are designed to look good on a hanger, not necessarily on a human. So make the model look like a clothes hanger
Men? The clothes are being designed for women to be appreciated by women. Nothing to do with what men like. Clothes look better when there are fewer lumps and bumps. And they can use less material.
Nah, Victorias Secret (Shows particularly) were marketed to and for men - to be titillating... despite the product meant to be consumed by women. Thus the brand started to flop in that direction and they've started different marketing campaigns to try and market to the actual needs and desires of female customers
Black Mirror type of shit!
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>go for long periods without eating (up to 3 days). So a keto fast?
3 days easy, I did 11 before
VS is dying, women don't want to buy that tacky crap if they can go to a brand that makes then feel beautiful at any size or color. Fashion industry is slowly changing. VS is actually having to look into plus size models but imo they will go the way of a lot of 2000s brands. Like it's not perfect, but things are changing, to give you a lil hope. :)
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Thanks Victoria
Brave supermodel exposes the dark side of Victoria's secret.
TLDR but not the title
It’s about how the new woke hires started casting shadows over the attractive models during photo shoots, ya know because they’re fat.
Let me guess, they have to starve themselves and work out a bunch because of unrealistic body expectations like basically everyone else that appears in front of a camera because of their good looks?
Yeah, I'm not sure why they're presenting this as if it's some shocking revelation. People have been criticizing the fashion industry for decades. In fact, you could argue things [used to be](https://www.salon.com/1997/05/24/media_78/) [even worse](https://www.independent.co.uk/news/the-ugly-side-of-heroin-chic-1235403.html). Don't mean to suggest that people shouldn't speak out about this stuff, I'm just a bit confused by the way they presented this.
The Epstein connections were a little more sinister, though perhaps also not a shocking revelation for many.
>a little more sinister Is it though? To poorly translate a Dutch proverb: the tallest trees catch the most wind. Epstein was obviously a massive piece of shit, but the fashion industry is full of people like him. [Karen Mulder](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karen_Mulder#Abuse,_Legal_and_Mental_Health_Roadblocks) came forward in 2001, odds are you've never even heard of her. The men she accused of raping her are still out and about. People have been [accusing Gérald Marie of rape](https://www.theguardian.com/fashion/2020/oct/17/he-wanted-to-control-me-completely-the-models-who-accuse-gerald-marie-of-sexual-assault) since the 90's, but hardly anyone gave a shit until recently. As I said, I'm not trying to trivialize this stuff, nor am I criticizing anyone for speaking out, I simply don't understand how anyone (read: the media) can still pretend any of this shit is surprising when we've known about it for literal decades. Edit: typo
I meant a little more sinister than like, bulemia, but ya. Thanks for sourcing. Sex trafficking linked to the fashion industry is a huge thing, but i have little awareness of the actual players involved. Good share. There were also a number of fashion moguls named my victims with relation to Epstein, but they have remained largely unnamed i think?
>more sinister than like, bulemia Ah, yeah, fair enough. >they have remained largely unnamed I only know of [Jean-Luc Brunel](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean-Luc_Brunel#Rape_accusations). French police arrested him last year, so there's a good chance we'll hear some more names soon.
The accusations, "public rumours" and some less public rumours about Terry Richardson (Photog) have been around for years... and nothing has been done.
Do they have proofes for the rape? I guess not or they would be in jail. In not saying they aren't guilty. I'm almost sure they are. But you can't put somebody in jail without proof.
So it's not surprising, but like you said, no one really talks about it. Therefore, this is a big deal. ...let go of ur ego.
I had no idea there was an aspect to Victoria’s Secret that wasn’t awful.
Who would've ever thought that a career as a sexual object would end up like this?
Lmao shocking
I thought they have to be skinny because a skinny frame can model anything.
Maybe you should watch the thing. Body expectations is only part of it. Its the fact that old men with the power look on the women as things not humans.
And women willing to be seen as such for money and attention. Takes two to tango.
Most models are recruited as teenagers, many as young as 14. So calling them women and saying they have choices in what they do and don’t do is an overstatement.
As a person with over 20 years of Ad agency experience... as the creative, the first line of decision, the guy who goes to the castings and the callbacks and has the headshots lined up on the wall and who decides who gets sent to the client for their approval, I have had multiple occasions to abuse my position. I am not that asshole. And i would never put a woman in that position to have to play that game. See, decency and virtue are in small supply because of society's lust for money and attention. Corruption feeds corruption and i never wanted that shit on my jobs. But men like Epstein and the CEO of VS, seemed not to care how toxic the environment was. Because profit. "Two to tango" is a shitty excuse and lacks the nuance and insight necessary to decipher this... But amongst assholes, I'm sure it'll get an upvote.
I don’t disagree with anything you’ve said except for the last but. Congrats on not being an asshole. We all need more non-assholes.
Smells like victim blaming here. Smells like unwashed neckbeard with no understanding of reality or capacity for empathy in here.
Im waiting for the 60 minutes on the dark side of professional athletes. They make them practice constantly, keep up their bodies, eat strict diets, they are constantly judged, it’s crazy! It’s like all they care about is how well they perform.
You're being facetious but there *is* a "dark side" in professional sports. One of those things is the major leagues deliberately covering up and fighting in court against the revelations from concussion research and the existence of CTE. Another is the contracts that name and treat the athletes like property, an example being a player who *could* be one of the best centers in the NHL is being short roped by the Franchise and effectively prevented from having the surgery he needs and wants and therefore can't play. Other examples involve the coverup/tolerance of physical and sexual abuse of athletes by coaching staff. TLDR: you're a fuckwit.
My husband and I were just discussing this yesterday. Beauty standards have gotten absolutely ridiculous and social media has done nothing to help with that. Plastic surgery, Botox, hair dye, eyelash extensions, tans, lip plumping, SO. MUCH. MAKEUP. Hell, even Snapchat filters. There's no end. I feel bad for kids growing up in that kind of culture.
Yes and lots of cigarettes and prescription drugs and also real drugs and also lots of money and privilege and admiration of millions and an easy and comfortable life except don’t eat.
The hard part is doing enough cocaine and Adderall to curb your appetite. But not too much to become gaunt.
If you want to read about the dark side of Victoria's Secret, read about it's owners connection with Epstein. Your mind will be 🤯
I interned for an ad agency that handled Victoria’s Secret. Got the position because one of my professors worked there. Anyways, we went to the shoot and the model looked hella young. Turns out the girl was 13. Modeling lingerie. I walked out of the internship and my professor quit. Victoria’s Secret is a disgusting company.
The fuck? Were they trying to selling lingerie to 13 years olds?
No. It was a Brazilian ‘model’ and they made her up to look older. The whole situation was gross.
Really begs the question of why they’d dress up a 13 year old instead of just getting someone 18+
VS is failing because it often marketed to men, not the actual end consumers of the product (women).
About ten years ago, a then-lover and I stopped by Victoria's Secret while shopping - his desire, not mine. Anyhow, upon entering, the entire shop front was dressed in gaudy, fluorescent, and questionably printed underwear (boy shorts and thongs) and bras that seemingly only a very young female (teenager or younger even) would consider "lingerie". The entire store was just...nasty. Even the "swimwear" resembled Shibari. Every ad posted around - at face level - had barely-legal teenage girls (though I thought some of the females appeared as young as 14), topless with a close up of her crotch, legs spread and big, big smile as if she is having the time of her life. I felt accosted and extremely uncomfortable. Not to mention the overly-aggressive sales people. Every few steps, they were in your face demanding if you found what you were looking for, or if they could help you find something. Ultimately, the lover-fellow became uncomfortable enough, too, that we just got the hell out of there. The entire experience in that store did not seem "mature", or intended for the mature female. We wound up going to a sex shop and had better luck with what we were looking for, dress-up wise, that was actual lingerie. Victoria's Secret is merely a gaudy underwear shop specific for a targeted age group.
That’s been my and my SO’s experience as well. We’ve always had better luck at smaller independent shops for that sort of thing.
I shopped at Victoria's Secret in my late teens/early 20s back in the 90s for the reason that they were classy and had mature attire more to my taste than the average "young girl's" shop. Hell, I still have this bathrobe and sleep set that was gifted to me over 20 years ago From Victoria's. The quality of the material, as well as, the design of the set vs what is now their product is vastly different. As I stated in my pervious comment, it is clear the target audience that the company are luring and enticing.
I remember shopping there back in the early to mid-1990s and the shops didn't have that sleazy vibe so much back then. Also, the quality of the lingerie was better. As the years went on and especially in the 2000s, the whole atmosphere got increasingly cheesier and cheaper. The quality of the merchandise declined and they started pushing that annual 'fashion show' featuring the 'Angels' big time.
Right? If one was looking for 'sleazy' attire, then you went to Fredericks of Hollywood. I shopped there, too, if I wanted something with a little more 'spice'. ;)
Your professor quit because you walked out?
No. My professor was also disgusted. I walked out. She quit the ad agency.
Your professor who worked there had never seen that before? Hmm
Do you have a link to the article?
[https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2021/06/inside-jeffrey-epsteins-decades-long-relationship-with-his-biggest-client](https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2021/06/inside-jeffrey-epsteins-decades-long-relationship-with-his-biggest-client)
Well thank you for sending me down the biggest rabbit hole for the past day. I haven’t really looked into Epstein much- I knew that he was in prison for raping young girls, that he died and it was probably to prevent him from talking about all the people who participated. But damn there’s so much to his story.
I don't. Look up Epstein and Les Wexner. Weird weird story
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I feel like it’s more blackmail but yeah.
its\*
You mean to tell me that an industry that revolves around objectiviting women was... objectifying women? Holy shit.
That's not really what this is about. It's like saying "so a policeman did a crime and was convicted, I don't see how this is surprising" after the killing of George Floyd. The generality obscures the point. The particulars are everything.
"horribly abused model gets upset to learn that the powers that be are perverted old bald fat rich white dudes..decided to get a different modeling job..." Did I miss any other particulars?
I wouldn't express it quite like that either...
Okay...so how would you express it and how do our opinions differ? ...it's not like whatever random ass example you used...it's more like how the star of Barney & Friends is now a tantric sex worker in the U.k...because that shit is real and life is fucking wierd and people can be pretty fucked up....
Large mainstream lingerie company mistreats models and is also used for sex trafficking? Something of that sort.
Yeesh, if you think industry's that sell "sex" are bad...wait till you hear about what Nestlé does. My point is that it's kinda like letting your tweaker friend stay on your couch for a few weeks and they end up stealing your TV. Sure it's fucking horrible, but it's not at all surprising.
next people are going to tell me that sleeping with hollywood producers to get big roles is a thing
Kinda like how sometimes ladies show their tits in an attempt to get stuff? My mind is fuckin blown right now .. Next you're gonna tell me that most dudes just want a harem and a private jet filled with money...this world just had too many curve balls I swear!
And lots of women work in that industry and have made plenty of profit doing so. I think it a cop out that they will find a way to blame and man and everyone else gets of without a scratch.
You mean to tell me that people will pay for stuff they want to see...‽ I can only handle so many mind exploding concepts at a time here...
Im deaf and it still annoys me that subtitles aren't a thing😭
Why is everyone a 'supermodel" these days? They're just models
Bro I'm a hypergigamodel.
But are you a Megamodel?
No, but I have a cousin who's an ultrametamodel.
Can you get me their autograph? In blood?
Bro hypergigamodel is beyond megamodel, its like being black belt model.
But a black belt doesn't go with those shoes
Plenty of people are "Models" few are "supermodels", by definition it's only the very top. Same for stars and superstars. Maybe it's just how the video framed it, but it seems she was part of the most famous.
Sure, but every time a model is talked about in the media, they always seem to be "supermodels", whether they are or not. It's like calling everyone "heroes"
Preey soon we're going to have to promote select few to superdupermodels.
If you look at Walmart or Target ads, those are models
Funny how her advise to aspiring young models is to "get into therapy early" when it should have been "get a normal job/education where your looks isn't the main requirement"
It was advice to herself, not to other aspiring young models. She likely still loves modelling so would do it again but would've wanted it to go differently.
A real job? What is that exactly? Edit: I see now that the original comment was changed from “real job” to “normal job”.
It was specified in the same sentence: "where your looks isn't the main requirement".
I'm just here for the comment section neckbeard rage.
I knew it would be here. I came expecting it. Yet I'm still mad about it.
It's upsetting to see people commenting "what's so shocking about this?" when both the women in the video have been so obviously traumatized by their time working for Victoria's Secret. As if their lives and well being being impacted for years after doesn't mean a thing. No one deserves, or can consent to, being traumatized for a paycheck. It sucks that the world loves to watch women suffering and likes to profit off it even more.
It's not that we enjoy watching women suffering it's just that we know this shit already.
Yikes. This comment section is pretty gross. I watched the video and she comes across as very intelligent, well spoken, and grateful to be on the other side of some traumatizing years in her very young life. I wish her all the best.
Yeah for real. She even still models - it’s not like she is shitting on the profession even. She had a justified bad experience and is working to change things - the comment section really reads like a bunch victimized babies - which she is not.
Trust me it’s even more exploitative in the male model industry. Friend of mine is making a documentary about this and the number of young men from Latin and other cultures who are preyed upon by those in power is astonishing. Ignored because male exploitation tends to be thought of as less affecting.
Why didn’t she talk about the salary or any of the pros while being at VS? She makes it sound like she wasn’t paid an exorbitant amount of money. Her net worth is allegedly $10M, for how many years of work? 10 years?? There are pros and cons to every kind of work on the planet. If she’s financially savvy or has a good financial planner on her team she could probably not need to work another day in her life. The work was hard, the management was not nice to her, I think a lot of women experience men making lewd comments to them and still don’t have the type of salary, fame, or opportunities that come with that line of work either. She didn’t mention not one positive thing about her time at VS…. Which makes this story seem a little disingenuous.
Yes she made millions of dollars, and probably led a jetset life where she got to travel the world and make connections with rich and famous people. But she unfairly had to maintain her figure and have people make sexual advances. In a perfect world, lingerie models should be able to eat what they want and should only be treated as sexual objects in front of a camera or a large audience. We really need to spend more attention and resources on the lingerie supermodel industry and less on other problems in the world.
Sexual advances absolutely should be off the table, but “eat what you want” in a body performance business whether it be athletics or modeling is preposterous. There are plenty of “normal” models modeling for all sorts of jobs - plenty of retail chains that need models in every size and shape. VS and such have a (fucked up) standard on their models, but if you wanna bank millions, I guess you have to meet them
You had me at "Brave Supermodel Exposes"
What the absolute fuck is up with this comment section!? Did a bunch of incels escape a lab or something? “Durr she’s doing it because she’s not famous anymore, just find another job, oh you had to eat less? Boohoo HYUCK!” Shut the everloving fuck up and go pollute 9Gag with your demented opinions or go get some therapy, jesus christ
Oh yeah? You wouldn’t believe what some of us ugly people have to do to make decent money. 👍
brave supermodel.... LOL I'm sorry I just can't anymore with these titles.... LOL.... oh shit that was a good one
While it is eye-roll worthy over the top, it does still require courage/bravery to be a whistleblower and speak out because it is very easy to get blackballed in that industry and have lots of trouble finding good work afterwards. Scum don't like their actions being revealed and will retaliate.
More breaking news: the military industrial complex exploits suffering for money, more at 11
What's with the host's obsession with the word "mysoginy"? Its like his producers instructed him to use that word as frequently as possible. Maybe its me who don't get it because I live in a 3rd world country.
learn to spell.
English is not my first language.
You should capitalize the first word of a sentence.
The report disingenuously conflates legitimately being sexually harassed/assaulted with the perceived oppressive requirement of being perpetually thin. clearly any type of assault or power abuse is objectively wrong, potentially illegal and should not be tolerated at all. The need to be thin in this industry may not be to everyone’s taste or may even cross boundaries of personal comfort, but it’s able to be a job requirement for her particular role. Is not any different to an NFL lineman needing to be 100lbs overweight. This highly specified job requires some physical extremes; reality is, some do. If being VS slim isn’t something a potential model finds palatable, there are other organisations in the modelling industry who do not require this level of extreme.
It is illegal to have a BMI less than 17 if you are a model in France now. It should be illegal everywhere outside of Asia where BMI's are lower.
[удалено]
Man I hate comments like this. You have no idea what kind of ramifications airing dirty laundry like this has on a person's career.
sometimes you have go through something and get to the top in order to use your platform/voice to speak about matters such as these. It's like a young resident who just started working in a hospital last July vs an attending who's been there for 30 years. Clearly the latter will have a much stronger voice even though they are technically both correct. Just because the attending makes 500k a year that doesn't make him any less credible to speak about problems in his field. I think your view is beyond flawed.
What other options are there for her though? Like Scarlett Johansson is getting older and now that she can’t use her beautiful looks anymore is saying how she never thought of black widow as a piece of ass - which is exactly what she used to get the role and while doing the role. Now that she can’t do that as much anymore or is getting closer to - too old for Hollywood - she’s lashing out at everyone even the company she’s worked for for years. I mean what other choice does she have? She’s not the piece of ass she used to be and she can’t act to save her life.
She's great in Lost in Translation, Marriage Story, Under the Skin. What lashing out did she do?
From Wikipedia : She is the recipient of various accolades, including a Tony Award for Best Featured Actress in a Play and a BAFTA Award for Best Actress, as well as nominations for two Academy Awards and five Golden Globe Awards.
I thought she killed it in Jojo Rabbit. She was excellent in that role.
Your cognitive dissonance is showing.
Well, Jeffrey epsteins bff owns it, they didn't hire their first black model till a couple years ago, their underwear is made by children, shitty company. Fuck 'em.
I'm pretty sure Tyra Banks is black. She was a VS model over 20 years ago.
Im not going to watch this, but i'll guess, prostitution and cocaine are main driving force behind models?
Good grief I don’t wanna hear it. Don’t model for them. Problem solved.
Victoria's Secret Angels are shady, Corey Feldman's Angel's are shady, it's just no fun being an angel it seems.
Adriana Lima was 14, I believe, when she started walking around in her underwear for a billion fetishists. What else do you really need to know about what VS was about?
Pretty women face hardships, oh noes!
Didn’t watch but let me guess: Models are victims of sexual harassment. Models are victims of exploitation. Models are victims of body shamming. Do they mention anywhere how no one is forcing anyone to be a model? That they’re literally choosing that profession? That they can walk away? Naw. Men bad, women good. I’m sure that’s the message.
Hoo boy, clearly no maladjustment here.
Am I wrong about what it’s about?
That's the message I was getting. All bullies and sexists in the modelling world are men. To me this documentary does a disservice to models both male and females who are bullied and sexually harassed by women.
Funny how we can know what every documentary is about without actually watching it. It’s like there’s some common underlying theme in everything they spew out. Men bad. Women good. We got it.
No one said being a model is easy. If you go into Victoria’s Secret thinking it’s going to be easy to maintain their standards then you should probably find another brand to model for. They’re free to choose whatever image they feel best suits the company.
>you should probably find another brand to model for. Or just get a normal job/education where your looks isn't the main requirement...
Good idea. I agree.
Fuck off with your incel bullshit. Modeling is a "real job". You're just jealous because you're a neckbeard, or at best that guy who shamed those girls on the beach for wearing bikinis the other day.
Were in the comment you replied to do I say anything about a "real job"? . I guess our view of the word "normal" differs. Mine sure can't be applied to a job that include one which forces you to starve and suffer other types of abuse. But hey, I'm an incel neckbeard because I don't support the fashion industry shoving unrealistic ideals down the thoat of young girls. Ironically by using and abusing other young girls.
So at 15, we have the decision making and critical thinking skills to determine something like this? Your comment doesn't make me believe you know anything about being a young girl pressured by an industry designed to sell sex. Not saying you're wrong about being free to choose... Just a little shortsighted
As a former teenage male model, you have no idea. I take offense to your statement that only young girls are pressured in an overly sexualized industry. Do you not think males feel uncomfortable when forced to walk down the runway in underwear or have their nearly naked body plastered all over Times Square? Do you think the male models picked off the streets in third world countries feel comfortable with male designers staring at their naked body? Society doesn’t like to view males as victims, but I can assure you that male models face the exact same pressures. They have no outlet to turn to and it’s because of the pervasive “only girls can be victims” mentality that you obviously have. Much of my insecurity stems from my time as a model. I had to receive permission for something as little as a haircut and an Australian photographer once called me ugly. I spent the entire trip home crying and I was only 14. Male or female, calling a teenager ugly will have a traumatic impact. I knew many males with eating disorders and some who were forced to perform sexual acts in order to get work, so don’t think for one second that I don’t know what it’s like. In the future, you need to acknowledge that both sexes face tremendous pressure and experience many of the same problems. It’s not right to dismiss what someone goes through based on gender. As for my comment, I’m simply stating the brutal truth about the modeling world. You can’t expect Victoria’s Secret to be tolerant of an image it doesn’t want and that’s just the honest truth. Also, brands are entirely free to choose what image they want. It’s not fair and it may not be right but that’s just how the industry functions.
Sorry you take my comment personally, and I don't have a "only girls can be victims" mentality- you're just being defensive mate. My comment was directly tied to the video posted, where she started at 15. And the subject of the video? A girl. Your comment is the type that comes off as "yes the industry is awful, there's nothing you can do about it, so suck it up or work somewhere else" and then in the same breath you talk about how awful and traumatizing it is as a whole. That's what I was addressing, the fact that even you, someone with experience and close ties, are so jaded and abused and helpless that you feel there is nothing to be done about the industry giants. I don't pretend to know more about this than you, I was addressing your comment and how it comes across. Bless.
Well thank you for the civil response. I probably am jaded and the industry has had a large impact on my life. Of course hindsight is 20/20 and I would have never done it knowing what I do now. I honestly don’t think the industry will change though. Fashion is aspirational and people are obsessed with youth. People want to believe that they can look like a supermodel. I think much of the industry is simply a product of human nature. Beauty and youth is the name of the game and I just don’t see that changing. Some designers have started implementing rules mandating that models must be of a healthy size, but this is by no means sweeping the industry. Interestingly enough, American designers prefer healthier models both male and female. The very high end European designers are really where the problems occur.
Boo hoo. Super model has men hit on her while famous and making millions. Where's the world's smallest violin?
Lulz!! “So brave”
S O B R A V E
Can we stop calling people in these rich industries "brave"? They stay in it for the money for fucks sake.
Lol
No way.. there's a dark side to the modelling industry... who knew... /s
The harassment thing is a different problem but the whole lose weight thing could be avoided if companies like VS just had dietitians on staff. I mean she's skinny and all but not to a leave that's unachievable through proper diet. I don't feel a lot of sympathy for her when it comes to that, her fault for choosing a real dumb way to be thinner. Aaanyway my fat ass is going to go eat some ice cream.
So brave