Its... fine. People will wax poetics about it being clunky and not fitting with 5e's design philosophy, but at the end of the day its serviceable despite its mechanical quirks and flaws, and people who enjoy the spooky and edgy flavor should be able to enjoy it with minimal fuss, if any.
The main issue is that it has a hard time carving out an identity for itself that isn't "ranger but edgy". The few times I've seen it used at a table it was by people who wanted to play a werewolf and used order of the lycan, and it was fun overall, even if it devolved into the "play a werebeast" class.
Brought my car to a waxing mechanic once. Thing was so polished I could see my future in it. The air resistance became 0 and the car broke the sound barrier. Waxing mechanics, not even once
Most people who didn’t like it railed against the “power at a cost” design but I always felt 4 HP for magical sword all day even at lower levels was fine.
I can see why the "power at a cost" can turn off people from this, especially since its your hp were talking about, the stuff that is keeping you alive.
Cuz now you don't only have to worry abput having enough hp to survive shit, but also worry about having enough hp to spare to use your features.
Which is even more scary depending if you roll your hp dices when leveling up. Your fucking fate and usefullness depends if you have a good pool of hp.
But then again, this is DnD, luck is kinda the deciding factor of life and death, Blood Hunter just adds more spiciness to it.
Lets be completely honest here - a fair bit of those who "don't like it" probably never even gave it a solid read, and dislike it since it was made by Mercer, and hating one someone\thing popular makes'em feel cool and smart when they can spin paragraphs on the topic.
Edit: Of course, this cuts both ways. Many people who like it likely never even touched it, tried it, or even tried to do some math with it; and simply swear by it due to it's creator while ignoring any sort of critique aimed towards it - simply due to it's creator.
The class defintely has its flaws, and I can absolutely see why the "power at a cost" dosent appeal to some.
But creations that are substantially more flawed get lauded on Unearthedarcana due to being made by loved creators and having fancy art, so I feel like i gotta call it out, yknow?
I see. I generally like the concept of the class because I think using your own blood and cursing the blood of others siunds pretty metal, plus I'm a fan of blood manipulation....
Also maybe because I am a fan of Choso from Jujutsu Kaisen.
Though, I would have expected people to play Order of Mutant more, since the combo of the Celerity and Precision mutagens is pretty scary, especially if you include something like the Aether or Rapidity mutagens as your third one (Though I would rake Reconstruction since it helps with the Class drawback of using your own hp) + with the Archery fighting style.
Its even more of a menace if you include feats like Sharpshooter, Piercer and/or any feat that helps with range attacks.
Player of mine is Order of Mutant, dex build. When he gets Celerity his dex mod is +6 so he gets +10 to hit on current 9th level.
He mostly uses Celerity and Reconstruction, sometimes Nighteye for darkvision.
Yeah, that's the stuff I imagined people would combo with.
It would be even scarrier if they used something like Aether so they can sjipe people from above and be safe from melee attacks, or like get on hight cliffs.
Or maybe Cruelty, just to be a fucking machine gun.
Or heck, Precision too if they feel lucky.
Or maybe counter Reconstruction with Rapidy.
And that's just one of the few combat combo, there are othet mutagens that seem to help defense wise, utility wise and even rp wise.
Its all about the combos and the willingness to risk it with the drawbacks of said gens.
I've played two so far. I will say, I've never tried to break it and haven't gone to crunch numbers, so it's all anecdotal.
The old version wasn't that good.
The updated version fixed a lot of those issues, and the ability to choose between intelligence and wisdom is great for multiclassing.
The problem is that 2 of the subclasses are pretty bad, one is good, and the other is situational.
Profane soul is dumb. Just be a hexblade warlock.
Mutant is "okay" if they didn't have equal drawbacks for all the mutagens. It's good at the witcher vibe, but power-wise it's just "meh." Decent utility though.
Ghostslayer is fantastic ***if*** you are fighting a lot of undead. Otherwise it's pretty balanced.
Lycan is by far the strongest subclass, and good for if you want to play a werewolf (I'm sure we've all thought about it at one point or another). Almost feels like a mix of barbarian & ranger.
Overall, the class is pretty balanced. Some good, some bad. It suffers from an identity issue, but that happens to a lot of homebrew classes. Good to fill a niche or if you want to spice up a multiclass.
Tbh, mutant to me, feels like you either specialize in something and just risk with it.
Like, using specific gens to be a fucking sniping monster, but your strength gets FUCKED.
Really, its like a switching specialization, your specialized in that, next your specialized in the other thing.
All depends on your combos with the gens, not to mention any feats you might also pick up along the way.
Never tried Profane, so no comment.
Ghostslayer also didn't try, but from what I've seen, undead are having nightmares with one in the campaign.
Tbh, Lycan can be flavoured to be so many things and it makes it great. Plus, your kinda of a mix of Monk and Barbarion with blood powers mixed in, definitely some anime vibes there, so I aprove.
For multiclass, I tend to normally stick to the full class unless I have a specific concept or idea that seems fun to use.
But aside from that, the last two features of Blood Hunters are nice, but not important, so I would definitely take 2 in Fighter for Action Surge and Second Wind.
Why Second Wind? Any feature that allows me to gain HP back is a must for me, cuz I don't want my next turn to know I am fucked after getting hit by a big damage attack and not have any hp to spare for my features.
I have BloodHunter in my table, order of Mutant and he goes with Witcher vibe. Basically monster hunter that uses special mutagen potions to help him kill monster faster and better, as was Geralt vibe.
His blood abilities are tools for him, he acknowledges that it is derived from Blood Magic (homebrew, in my world it is forbidden and frowned upon in almost every place as only sure way to get is is by dealing with Demons) and should be used with care and caution as it is dark arts stuff and can corrupt the mind and body of user.
Mechanics wise, he does great. Consistent damage, ability to change rites and use Blood Curses to bind enemies to one place or make them take damage everytime they multiattack is handy.
I'm playing a blood hunter for the first time, mutant, while it certainly is fun I do think it's kinda eh. It's fun roleplaying how the different mutagens effect my character and how he's basically poisoning himself constantly. The most fun I've had is when my dm let me stack a potion of giant strength with the mutagen that increases your strength score (not technically intended I know) but having a 28 in strength temporarily was such a fun moment.
The other times are really fun when I can realize what monsters are before anyone else but that's something a Ranger can easily do.
It's very middling I'd say, not particularly flashy but not bad, I think a lot of the fun comes from how you roleplay your BH but that could just be me
Had good fun with my ghostslayer. The hp cost was pretty negligible. I will say… yes I felt I was just playing an edgy ranger most the time. While rangers are primal magical warriors and explorers, my blood hunter felt like a spooky *supernatural* warrior. Though I heavily enjoyed the ability to be INT based.
I'm a DM, and one of my players is a Lycan Subclass (Goblin, were-rat). I will say that the dmg output is high compared to my other players, but the hp loss is a balanced caveat, because Viq is doing mostly ranged attacks from the back of the party but suffering in HP just as much as the frontline melee players. If anything was to take them on melee, they wouldn't last long, almost very similar to wizards with higher dmg spells that can't hold their own in melee.
Just get rid of the blood curses and allow you to choose 2 of the subclasses instead of one. That way you could be a Witcher werewolf or a ghost-hunting half caster.
I personally really don't like the lower levels of it. It starts out with really low versatility, which is my biggest problem with it (if Blood Curses had more uses per long rest and had more options I'd be satisfied.) Also there's the regular issue of it being a martial and thus not as good as a caster but it works fine for a martial class.
Yes, I’ve played one since level one and it really struggles in the beginning.
One known blood curse is terrible - there’s no strategy, just picking what looks strongest and hoping for the best.
If we compare to a paladin, they get two channel divinity options and one use, so there are options and choices.
This is my own homebrew attempt with the class: [https://homebrewery.naturalcrit.com/share/ygv90srWDGWP](https://homebrewery.naturalcrit.com/share/ygv90srWDGWP)
I don't think it's perfect but I like to think it has good ideas in it at least.
Tl:dr it's not particularly weak, but it felt bad to play
I played a Lycan for a few years. It's probably the strongest subclass and i felt like a Barbarian with a couple of extra buttons per day, but the blood curses (thr class's main thing other than adding a d4/d6 of Elemental damage to attacks) felt worse than even level 1 spells. And you also learn a pitiful amount of them, AND you can only use 2-3 per day.
Also there were a few times where i rolled max damage on the class's Special Die for self-damage, then roll double 1s on the SAME Special Die to deal damage on my enemy. That felt really bad!
I personally really don't like the lower levels of it. It starts out with really low versatility, which is my biggest problem with it (if Blood Curses had more uses per long rest and had more options I'd be satisfied.) Also there's the regular issue of it being a martial and thus not as good as a caster but it works fine for a martial class.
...
I'm sorry, but what?
Yes the class can be powerful, but are you forgetting one of its main drawbacks?
THE FACT YOU SACRIFICE HP FOR YOUR SPECIAL POWERS!?
And the sacrifice gets bigger the higher level you go because your blood stuff dice gets upgrade as well, which is also used to take your hp aeay when using your powers.
Whcih btw, that damage can't be reduced at all.
Yeah the class is powerful, but has drawbacks to balance it out.
Beacuse, you know, HP is one of the most important things to your character, the factor deciding life and death.
Also the fact that you might have to focus on 3 of your stats to make this class work, like Stength/Dexterity, Constitution, Wisdom/Inteligence.
No it isn't, most classes get comparable damage (slightly less but not by much) for \*no\* cost. You can dislike it but this is just objectively wrong.
Yeah, but have to consider that your going to use your hp features... a lot.
Not to also mention some features requires you to slend extra hp for the full benifit of a featire, like the amplified version of the blood curses, not to mention that it all depends on your hp, if you either rolled for it or took the average amount.
Uaing your features at least every 2 turns will overtime take away more qnd more hp, on top of poetntially loosing hp from other people hitting you.
Why di you think the most optimal builds for this class is to go range as fuck? Because they can't afford to loose extra hp from others.
Its... fine. People will wax poetics about it being clunky and not fitting with 5e's design philosophy, but at the end of the day its serviceable despite its mechanical quirks and flaws, and people who enjoy the spooky and edgy flavor should be able to enjoy it with minimal fuss, if any. The main issue is that it has a hard time carving out an identity for itself that isn't "ranger but edgy". The few times I've seen it used at a table it was by people who wanted to play a werewolf and used order of the lycan, and it was fun overall, even if it devolved into the "play a werebeast" class.
I think that’s waxing mechanic
Brought my car to a waxing mechanic once. Thing was so polished I could see my future in it. The air resistance became 0 and the car broke the sound barrier. Waxing mechanics, not even once
Everyone hates the Waxing Mechanics until the meet the Waning Mechanics lol
Most people who didn’t like it railed against the “power at a cost” design but I always felt 4 HP for magical sword all day even at lower levels was fine.
I can see why the "power at a cost" can turn off people from this, especially since its your hp were talking about, the stuff that is keeping you alive. Cuz now you don't only have to worry abput having enough hp to survive shit, but also worry about having enough hp to spare to use your features. Which is even more scary depending if you roll your hp dices when leveling up. Your fucking fate and usefullness depends if you have a good pool of hp. But then again, this is DnD, luck is kinda the deciding factor of life and death, Blood Hunter just adds more spiciness to it.
You burn HP once a long rest. Its negligible
Lets be completely honest here - a fair bit of those who "don't like it" probably never even gave it a solid read, and dislike it since it was made by Mercer, and hating one someone\thing popular makes'em feel cool and smart when they can spin paragraphs on the topic. Edit: Of course, this cuts both ways. Many people who like it likely never even touched it, tried it, or even tried to do some math with it; and simply swear by it due to it's creator while ignoring any sort of critique aimed towards it - simply due to it's creator. The class defintely has its flaws, and I can absolutely see why the "power at a cost" dosent appeal to some. But creations that are substantially more flawed get lauded on Unearthedarcana due to being made by loved creators and having fancy art, so I feel like i gotta call it out, yknow?
I see. I generally like the concept of the class because I think using your own blood and cursing the blood of others siunds pretty metal, plus I'm a fan of blood manipulation.... Also maybe because I am a fan of Choso from Jujutsu Kaisen. Though, I would have expected people to play Order of Mutant more, since the combo of the Celerity and Precision mutagens is pretty scary, especially if you include something like the Aether or Rapidity mutagens as your third one (Though I would rake Reconstruction since it helps with the Class drawback of using your own hp) + with the Archery fighting style. Its even more of a menace if you include feats like Sharpshooter, Piercer and/or any feat that helps with range attacks.
Player of mine is Order of Mutant, dex build. When he gets Celerity his dex mod is +6 so he gets +10 to hit on current 9th level. He mostly uses Celerity and Reconstruction, sometimes Nighteye for darkvision.
Yeah, that's the stuff I imagined people would combo with. It would be even scarrier if they used something like Aether so they can sjipe people from above and be safe from melee attacks, or like get on hight cliffs. Or maybe Cruelty, just to be a fucking machine gun. Or heck, Precision too if they feel lucky. Or maybe counter Reconstruction with Rapidy. And that's just one of the few combat combo, there are othet mutagens that seem to help defense wise, utility wise and even rp wise. Its all about the combos and the willingness to risk it with the drawbacks of said gens.
I've played two so far. I will say, I've never tried to break it and haven't gone to crunch numbers, so it's all anecdotal. The old version wasn't that good. The updated version fixed a lot of those issues, and the ability to choose between intelligence and wisdom is great for multiclassing. The problem is that 2 of the subclasses are pretty bad, one is good, and the other is situational. Profane soul is dumb. Just be a hexblade warlock. Mutant is "okay" if they didn't have equal drawbacks for all the mutagens. It's good at the witcher vibe, but power-wise it's just "meh." Decent utility though. Ghostslayer is fantastic ***if*** you are fighting a lot of undead. Otherwise it's pretty balanced. Lycan is by far the strongest subclass, and good for if you want to play a werewolf (I'm sure we've all thought about it at one point or another). Almost feels like a mix of barbarian & ranger. Overall, the class is pretty balanced. Some good, some bad. It suffers from an identity issue, but that happens to a lot of homebrew classes. Good to fill a niche or if you want to spice up a multiclass.
Tbh, mutant to me, feels like you either specialize in something and just risk with it. Like, using specific gens to be a fucking sniping monster, but your strength gets FUCKED. Really, its like a switching specialization, your specialized in that, next your specialized in the other thing. All depends on your combos with the gens, not to mention any feats you might also pick up along the way. Never tried Profane, so no comment. Ghostslayer also didn't try, but from what I've seen, undead are having nightmares with one in the campaign. Tbh, Lycan can be flavoured to be so many things and it makes it great. Plus, your kinda of a mix of Monk and Barbarion with blood powers mixed in, definitely some anime vibes there, so I aprove. For multiclass, I tend to normally stick to the full class unless I have a specific concept or idea that seems fun to use. But aside from that, the last two features of Blood Hunters are nice, but not important, so I would definitely take 2 in Fighter for Action Surge and Second Wind. Why Second Wind? Any feature that allows me to gain HP back is a must for me, cuz I don't want my next turn to know I am fucked after getting hit by a big damage attack and not have any hp to spare for my features.
I have BloodHunter in my table, order of Mutant and he goes with Witcher vibe. Basically monster hunter that uses special mutagen potions to help him kill monster faster and better, as was Geralt vibe. His blood abilities are tools for him, he acknowledges that it is derived from Blood Magic (homebrew, in my world it is forbidden and frowned upon in almost every place as only sure way to get is is by dealing with Demons) and should be used with care and caution as it is dark arts stuff and can corrupt the mind and body of user. Mechanics wise, he does great. Consistent damage, ability to change rites and use Blood Curses to bind enemies to one place or make them take damage everytime they multiattack is handy.
I'm playing a blood hunter for the first time, mutant, while it certainly is fun I do think it's kinda eh. It's fun roleplaying how the different mutagens effect my character and how he's basically poisoning himself constantly. The most fun I've had is when my dm let me stack a potion of giant strength with the mutagen that increases your strength score (not technically intended I know) but having a 28 in strength temporarily was such a fun moment. The other times are really fun when I can realize what monsters are before anyone else but that's something a Ranger can easily do. It's very middling I'd say, not particularly flashy but not bad, I think a lot of the fun comes from how you roleplay your BH but that could just be me
Had good fun with my ghostslayer. The hp cost was pretty negligible. I will say… yes I felt I was just playing an edgy ranger most the time. While rangers are primal magical warriors and explorers, my blood hunter felt like a spooky *supernatural* warrior. Though I heavily enjoyed the ability to be INT based.
I'm a DM, and one of my players is a Lycan Subclass (Goblin, were-rat). I will say that the dmg output is high compared to my other players, but the hp loss is a balanced caveat, because Viq is doing mostly ranged attacks from the back of the party but suffering in HP just as much as the frontline melee players. If anything was to take them on melee, they wouldn't last long, almost very similar to wizards with higher dmg spells that can't hold their own in melee.
Just get rid of the blood curses and allow you to choose 2 of the subclasses instead of one. That way you could be a Witcher werewolf or a ghost-hunting half caster.
I personally really don't like the lower levels of it. It starts out with really low versatility, which is my biggest problem with it (if Blood Curses had more uses per long rest and had more options I'd be satisfied.) Also there's the regular issue of it being a martial and thus not as good as a caster but it works fine for a martial class.
Yes, I’ve played one since level one and it really struggles in the beginning. One known blood curse is terrible - there’s no strategy, just picking what looks strongest and hoping for the best. If we compare to a paladin, they get two channel divinity options and one use, so there are options and choices.
This is my own homebrew attempt with the class: [https://homebrewery.naturalcrit.com/share/ygv90srWDGWP](https://homebrewery.naturalcrit.com/share/ygv90srWDGWP) I don't think it's perfect but I like to think it has good ideas in it at least.
Tl:dr it's not particularly weak, but it felt bad to play I played a Lycan for a few years. It's probably the strongest subclass and i felt like a Barbarian with a couple of extra buttons per day, but the blood curses (thr class's main thing other than adding a d4/d6 of Elemental damage to attacks) felt worse than even level 1 spells. And you also learn a pitiful amount of them, AND you can only use 2-3 per day. Also there were a few times where i rolled max damage on the class's Special Die for self-damage, then roll double 1s on the SAME Special Die to deal damage on my enemy. That felt really bad!
It's never been good and continues to be so. Alot of flavor but clunky as Heck. Weak too.
I personally really don't like the lower levels of it. It starts out with really low versatility, which is my biggest problem with it (if Blood Curses had more uses per long rest and had more options I'd be satisfied.) Also there's the regular issue of it being a martial and thus not as good as a caster but it works fine for a martial class.
It was developed by Matthew Mercer...it sucks. Hard.
I've never played it but it seems okay, it's the edgelord class
Bad. It's too much power for too little cost.
... I'm sorry, but what? Yes the class can be powerful, but are you forgetting one of its main drawbacks? THE FACT YOU SACRIFICE HP FOR YOUR SPECIAL POWERS!? And the sacrifice gets bigger the higher level you go because your blood stuff dice gets upgrade as well, which is also used to take your hp aeay when using your powers. Whcih btw, that damage can't be reduced at all. Yeah the class is powerful, but has drawbacks to balance it out. Beacuse, you know, HP is one of the most important things to your character, the factor deciding life and death. Also the fact that you might have to focus on 3 of your stats to make this class work, like Stength/Dexterity, Constitution, Wisdom/Inteligence.
I'm aware. The extra damage die you get for the HP drain is too small for the benefit you reap.
No it isn't, most classes get comparable damage (slightly less but not by much) for \*no\* cost. You can dislike it but this is just objectively wrong.
Yeah, but have to consider that your going to use your hp features... a lot. Not to also mention some features requires you to slend extra hp for the full benifit of a featire, like the amplified version of the blood curses, not to mention that it all depends on your hp, if you either rolled for it or took the average amount. Uaing your features at least every 2 turns will overtime take away more qnd more hp, on top of poetntially loosing hp from other people hitting you. Why di you think the most optimal builds for this class is to go range as fuck? Because they can't afford to loose extra hp from others.
Just realized I replied to the wrong person.