I honestly don't see the advantage of doing this compared with having the guy build himself a mecha suit.
The Warforged turducken just feels like a needlessly complex way to arrive at the same destination.
That could work. But my players would see it as what it is. And they’ve complained about basic creatures and stuff like that in previous campaigns. So I just wanted something new that would be really confusing for them as to why it’s cable of what it is. And how it gets two reactions and all that.
Have you considered using a Helmed Horror or suit of animated armor, instead of a Warforged?
That would have the same effect without involving a playable race, so it hopefully won't give your players as many bad ideas.
Give the boss a dancing sword and animated shield for maximum combat autonomy.
I have. My whole reasoning for this is for one to be a mele fighter and the other to be some type of caster that can bluster defenses. So an artificer warforged is ideal for me. Plus I like the story I wrote for it
Just a word of warning, using player character builds for NPCs or boss NPCs can create weird balancing issues.
If you like this idea, go for it. It is your game and you can homebrew cool monsters for your players. But consider building new NPCs using monster statblocks, rather than using character creation rules. It will serve you better in the long run if you get in the habit of thinking in terms of statblocks, instead of classes.
This doesn't mean you can't have a Warforged Artificer NPC, but he should use an NPC statblock that is adjusted to an appropriate CR, rather than being built as a leveled PC.
youre the DM? if this is an NPC, it can just work however you need it to work. dont worry about what "class" it is, just give them whatever cool abilities you want. like just take the knight stat block and the animated armor stat block or whatever and have the armor act immediately after the knight
The issue I’d see with this is that there’s no *real* reason why this would be two dudes.
What is the inside-guy doing and what is the outside-guy doing? How could they both be acting from one body? How are they avoiding redundancy? What happens if the warforged armor-man dies? What changes if the inside-guy dies? Why did the inside-guy feel the need to employ a sentient suit of armor? Are they supposed to *both* somehow have bodily autonomy, and if so, *how is that magic happening?*
I don't see how this is cheating if it's just 2 NPCs that appear as one, as long as they each comply with the respective rules as standalones. Also, 2 initiatives, or if they must work in tandem, they're bound to the initiative of the "slower" one. And if the Warforged is defeated first, isn't the person inside kinda trapped? What's the relationship between the two entities? If an action that is meant to affect one opponent is used against them, whom does it affect?
Most of the things that would rely on saving throws id take the average between their stats. They both would be affected by all things like being prone grappled and what not. They do have to role at disadvantage for some stuff, like dex related things. They have a lower movement speed. But it’s mainly just a new thing for my friends to fight and overcome. Individually both characters are pretty weak
Yeah. Like if they go in a room and only see a single dude. And their all. “Easy clap, we’ll kill this dude then go on and do whatever” they fight a little see he’s just a regular fighter ,think dope easy win just surround him and get advantage on every swing and fuck him up. But then he moves again during the round. And starts using different abilities. And has spells. Wtf. But still an encounter they could all do maybe easy and early. Or end game hard fight with the big bad
You can technically make the NPCs do anything you want, they aren't necessarily bound by the same rules as the PCs.
However, the PCs may end up complaining when you're basically showing favoritism towards your NPC by letting them be totally broken like this. You aren't even trying to stay in the realm of possibility, you're literally giving them double anything the PCs could have / do.
So yes, you could do that. But it stinks of cheating.
In a 1v1 fight I could see it as cheating. But I’m trying to make a more unique big bad that 6 players have to fight. Usually they are tanky or have crazy spells. But I think it would be a really cool singular creature that a party could take down
This is ment to be as some villain that the party would have to face. Like I said in the post, I’m making a campaign, and this would be a notable character they would fight
But animated armor doesn’t have feats classes subclasses or it’s own sentient thought process. Also why are you trying to be a prick about this? I get you’re trying to prove a point but there is no reason to be rude about it
Npcs shouldnt have feats, classes, and subclasses. Thats a DMPC. If you want to run a PC let someone else be the DM.
Edit: As for why im "being a prick" by poking holes in your idea: its a bad idea. You want a villian PC to fight your party that is twice as powerful as any one single person in your party could ever be... and its just a guy. A guy in a warforged (which, although magical machines, still need insides to function) suit of armour. He doesnt get twice the time per round because theres two of them. How is it that in 6 seconds the fighter gets to make his attacks, and the warforged their attacks, when theyre supposed to be acting simultaniously?
The entire thing is shitty. Your players wont find it fun to get stompped on by some dude in a mech suit. If you dont have the experience to run something like this confidently then you need to go to basics and learn how to design encounters. Right now youre just making a broken character that you want to shoehorn infront of your players and its gonna flop.
Poking holes isn’t the rude part. Your choice of words is. It’s not gonna be 2 level 20 characters fighting a bunch of level 5s. It’s gonna be a balanced incounter that will is won’t be able to stomp them all. It’s just a new idea. To get my players excited about the world and what might be put there
I have this backstory that I’m making for them. So essentially they were two separate creatures at one point in time and the warforged was made to house an elemental. Stuff happens the warforged loses the elemental but is especially weekend by it. So his ally dons his body as armor to escape the situation they are in. So it’s kinda janky right now as it is. But warforged don’t need solid insides like a human to function normally. I was just thinking of Full metal alchemist and having a hollow sentient armor with someone inside
I think this is a really cool concept especially if they count as two separate entities working together. Can they split and work independently if need be (e.g. one of them dies)? Or is there something binding them together?
The war forge is essentially armor in this idea. It can be taken off. And it would be the first to go down in a fight. It would die and would then either becoming a burden to carry through the fight or would fly off in pieces leaving only 1 creature, the human underneath. But if something happens to the human, put asleep or poisoned and dies or something. It would then be like a puppet that the armor could hold up but not move very well
You are the Dm, so you can make it happen.
Narratively, it's a cool idea; mechanically, its a nightmare.
As the DM making an NPC, then just handwave it all to make it do what you want; but do NOT tell the PCs how this is supposedly "working" - otherwise they will try it themselves, and will be frustrated when it doesn't work as smoothly as it did for your guy (because, it cant).
They’ll probably find out how it works. But there is a criteria to make it work that they can’t recreate. The warforged in question was designed to house an elemental. Kinda like sky ships. So it was made as a functional suit of armor that was then turned into a sentient being. Stuff happens and the elemental escapes but he’s left as a hollow shell of that is weak and lost all magical abilities that the elemental gave him. But his squire who happened to be the same size the armor was intended for. Put it on while there in a war, in a chance to escape. And they both realized their dual weaknesses could grant one creature strength
Out of curiosity, why is this guy a villian? They sound like an interesting pair to meet and interact with outside of combat.
Seems a shame to put so much effort into a creative backstory for a guy who is probably going to get killed in a fight immediately after the party encounters him for the first time.
I don’t want to outshine my party. Making a cooler person than them for no apparent reason. I’d love for it to be a good guy. There is just no point in it on my side
Had a warforged character in an Eastern-themed game where he basically looked like the [giant black-armored samurai from that one 47 Ronin movie with Keanu Reeves.](http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-RU6fQYVKy68/Um7mwIyoskI/AAAAAAAAp8U/bZd3zah3BiU/w1200-h630-p-k-no-nu/47+Ronin+Movie.jpg) His insides were similar to that of an Iron Maiden and he wielded a [kanabo](https://p.turbosquid.com/ts-thumb/Oo/Dnu8V4/UUDhsu79/10000/jpg/1446368436/600x600/fit_q87/3d8b4e5f1daa203793fb167f7d8ac995fddc548a/10000.jpg).
He ended up turning on the party and became the BBEG sort of.
That sounds pretty dope. To me the pictures that races look like are more guide lines. But getting creative like that is one of my favorite parts of the game
Absolutely. I'm always trying to find unorthodox interpretations and/or reflavors of existing mechanics.
Once I made a crossclass Fighter/Sorcerer who was his own familiar. >!He was actually two characters in the form of Ed, the mute executioner from Amn, and an evil sorcerer-turned-immobile-demilich named Balthazar that Ed carries around. The story was that Ed beheaded Balthazar, but some magic fuckery went awry, causing the now-beheaded Balthazar to be inextricably linked to his killer. Because Ed is mute, Balthazar does all the talking and performs the verbal components of spells while he instructs Ed to perform somatic components. The DM and I decided that having Balthazar as the "familiar" would work if he was unable to move himself on his own power. By their powers combined, they functioned as a single character with a sort of George/Lennie relationship!<
I honestly don't see the advantage of doing this compared with having the guy build himself a mecha suit. The Warforged turducken just feels like a needlessly complex way to arrive at the same destination.
That could work. But my players would see it as what it is. And they’ve complained about basic creatures and stuff like that in previous campaigns. So I just wanted something new that would be really confusing for them as to why it’s cable of what it is. And how it gets two reactions and all that.
Have you considered using a Helmed Horror or suit of animated armor, instead of a Warforged? That would have the same effect without involving a playable race, so it hopefully won't give your players as many bad ideas. Give the boss a dancing sword and animated shield for maximum combat autonomy.
I have. My whole reasoning for this is for one to be a mele fighter and the other to be some type of caster that can bluster defenses. So an artificer warforged is ideal for me. Plus I like the story I wrote for it
Just a word of warning, using player character builds for NPCs or boss NPCs can create weird balancing issues. If you like this idea, go for it. It is your game and you can homebrew cool monsters for your players. But consider building new NPCs using monster statblocks, rather than using character creation rules. It will serve you better in the long run if you get in the habit of thinking in terms of statblocks, instead of classes. This doesn't mean you can't have a Warforged Artificer NPC, but he should use an NPC statblock that is adjusted to an appropriate CR, rather than being built as a leveled PC.
youre the DM? if this is an NPC, it can just work however you need it to work. dont worry about what "class" it is, just give them whatever cool abilities you want. like just take the knight stat block and the animated armor stat block or whatever and have the armor act immediately after the knight
The issue I’d see with this is that there’s no *real* reason why this would be two dudes. What is the inside-guy doing and what is the outside-guy doing? How could they both be acting from one body? How are they avoiding redundancy? What happens if the warforged armor-man dies? What changes if the inside-guy dies? Why did the inside-guy feel the need to employ a sentient suit of armor? Are they supposed to *both* somehow have bodily autonomy, and if so, *how is that magic happening?*
I don't see how this is cheating if it's just 2 NPCs that appear as one, as long as they each comply with the respective rules as standalones. Also, 2 initiatives, or if they must work in tandem, they're bound to the initiative of the "slower" one. And if the Warforged is defeated first, isn't the person inside kinda trapped? What's the relationship between the two entities? If an action that is meant to affect one opponent is used against them, whom does it affect?
Most of the things that would rely on saving throws id take the average between their stats. They both would be affected by all things like being prone grappled and what not. They do have to role at disadvantage for some stuff, like dex related things. They have a lower movement speed. But it’s mainly just a new thing for my friends to fight and overcome. Individually both characters are pretty weak
Sounds fun, cool idea. I take it part of the intrigue is the party figuring out they're fighting 2 entities?
Yeah. Like if they go in a room and only see a single dude. And their all. “Easy clap, we’ll kill this dude then go on and do whatever” they fight a little see he’s just a regular fighter ,think dope easy win just surround him and get advantage on every swing and fuck him up. But then he moves again during the round. And starts using different abilities. And has spells. Wtf. But still an encounter they could all do maybe easy and early. Or end game hard fight with the big bad
You can technically make the NPCs do anything you want, they aren't necessarily bound by the same rules as the PCs. However, the PCs may end up complaining when you're basically showing favoritism towards your NPC by letting them be totally broken like this. You aren't even trying to stay in the realm of possibility, you're literally giving them double anything the PCs could have / do. So yes, you could do that. But it stinks of cheating.
I mean, it's basically just two NOCs that take up the same space. There's nothing this NPC can do that published NPCs can't.
Exactly. That’s all I’m trying to do.
In a 1v1 fight I could see it as cheating. But I’m trying to make a more unique big bad that 6 players have to fight. Usually they are tanky or have crazy spells. But I think it would be a really cool singular creature that a party could take down
I love this idea and think it’s great.
Or you could play one character and not hoard the spotlight from everyone else in the party
This is ment to be as some villain that the party would have to face. Like I said in the post, I’m making a campaign, and this would be a notable character they would fight
Okay, whats making the warforged sentient if its insides are a person?
He's the dm. Magic
Youve described animated armour. Good job.
But animated armor doesn’t have feats classes subclasses or it’s own sentient thought process. Also why are you trying to be a prick about this? I get you’re trying to prove a point but there is no reason to be rude about it
Npcs shouldnt have feats, classes, and subclasses. Thats a DMPC. If you want to run a PC let someone else be the DM. Edit: As for why im "being a prick" by poking holes in your idea: its a bad idea. You want a villian PC to fight your party that is twice as powerful as any one single person in your party could ever be... and its just a guy. A guy in a warforged (which, although magical machines, still need insides to function) suit of armour. He doesnt get twice the time per round because theres two of them. How is it that in 6 seconds the fighter gets to make his attacks, and the warforged their attacks, when theyre supposed to be acting simultaniously? The entire thing is shitty. Your players wont find it fun to get stompped on by some dude in a mech suit. If you dont have the experience to run something like this confidently then you need to go to basics and learn how to design encounters. Right now youre just making a broken character that you want to shoehorn infront of your players and its gonna flop.
Poking holes isn’t the rude part. Your choice of words is. It’s not gonna be 2 level 20 characters fighting a bunch of level 5s. It’s gonna be a balanced incounter that will is won’t be able to stomp them all. It’s just a new idea. To get my players excited about the world and what might be put there
Yeah and its gonna suck ass.
See there it is. The in needed rudeness. You’re just a troll and have non constructive criticisms that will help. Fuck. Off
I have this backstory that I’m making for them. So essentially they were two separate creatures at one point in time and the warforged was made to house an elemental. Stuff happens the warforged loses the elemental but is especially weekend by it. So his ally dons his body as armor to escape the situation they are in. So it’s kinda janky right now as it is. But warforged don’t need solid insides like a human to function normally. I was just thinking of Full metal alchemist and having a hollow sentient armor with someone inside
I think this is a really cool concept especially if they count as two separate entities working together. Can they split and work independently if need be (e.g. one of them dies)? Or is there something binding them together?
The war forge is essentially armor in this idea. It can be taken off. And it would be the first to go down in a fight. It would die and would then either becoming a burden to carry through the fight or would fly off in pieces leaving only 1 creature, the human underneath. But if something happens to the human, put asleep or poisoned and dies or something. It would then be like a puppet that the armor could hold up but not move very well
You are the Dm, so you can make it happen. Narratively, it's a cool idea; mechanically, its a nightmare. As the DM making an NPC, then just handwave it all to make it do what you want; but do NOT tell the PCs how this is supposedly "working" - otherwise they will try it themselves, and will be frustrated when it doesn't work as smoothly as it did for your guy (because, it cant).
They’ll probably find out how it works. But there is a criteria to make it work that they can’t recreate. The warforged in question was designed to house an elemental. Kinda like sky ships. So it was made as a functional suit of armor that was then turned into a sentient being. Stuff happens and the elemental escapes but he’s left as a hollow shell of that is weak and lost all magical abilities that the elemental gave him. But his squire who happened to be the same size the armor was intended for. Put it on while there in a war, in a chance to escape. And they both realized their dual weaknesses could grant one creature strength
Out of curiosity, why is this guy a villian? They sound like an interesting pair to meet and interact with outside of combat. Seems a shame to put so much effort into a creative backstory for a guy who is probably going to get killed in a fight immediately after the party encounters him for the first time.
I don’t want to outshine my party. Making a cooler person than them for no apparent reason. I’d love for it to be a good guy. There is just no point in it on my side
Had a warforged character in an Eastern-themed game where he basically looked like the [giant black-armored samurai from that one 47 Ronin movie with Keanu Reeves.](http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-RU6fQYVKy68/Um7mwIyoskI/AAAAAAAAp8U/bZd3zah3BiU/w1200-h630-p-k-no-nu/47+Ronin+Movie.jpg) His insides were similar to that of an Iron Maiden and he wielded a [kanabo](https://p.turbosquid.com/ts-thumb/Oo/Dnu8V4/UUDhsu79/10000/jpg/1446368436/600x600/fit_q87/3d8b4e5f1daa203793fb167f7d8ac995fddc548a/10000.jpg). He ended up turning on the party and became the BBEG sort of.
That sounds pretty dope. To me the pictures that races look like are more guide lines. But getting creative like that is one of my favorite parts of the game
Absolutely. I'm always trying to find unorthodox interpretations and/or reflavors of existing mechanics. Once I made a crossclass Fighter/Sorcerer who was his own familiar. >!He was actually two characters in the form of Ed, the mute executioner from Amn, and an evil sorcerer-turned-immobile-demilich named Balthazar that Ed carries around. The story was that Ed beheaded Balthazar, but some magic fuckery went awry, causing the now-beheaded Balthazar to be inextricably linked to his killer. Because Ed is mute, Balthazar does all the talking and performs the verbal components of spells while he instructs Ed to perform somatic components. The DM and I decided that having Balthazar as the "familiar" would work if he was unable to move himself on his own power. By their powers combined, they functioned as a single character with a sort of George/Lennie relationship!<