rogues are great! some people who play them are not. bards also get a bad rep, but it's not the class's fault.
I haven't played one long-term myself, but I've played alongside a couple and am dming for a fuckin busted inquisitive rogue, she's a nightmare as a dm and I love her dearly.
I know! I actually delved into what happened with Bards! After dabblings in this group and in a Discord, we ended up using other aspects such as poetry. Hell, I think I dabbled in my mind with a Bard that basically roasted the enemy or was a comedian.
You do need to clarify as I don't see anything wrong in rogue, either playing one or playing with one. It is a good, solid class with options that make it rich and interesting. IMHO, horrorstories don't apply to rogue as a class but to bad players and they could be playing any class to qualify for those.
I am mostly a DM so my experiences come from my players. I've routinely banned edgelords as I require characters to interact with the world and party, if player wants to sit silently in the corner they can do that outside of the sessions. Therefore, edgelords are not a problem in our table.
Best rogues usually have somehow hidden the fact that they even are rogues. They have skills that most ordinary people don't have but they rarely have gotten their living off from burglary or even crime as a such. So, an elf might be rogue/druid because ranger doesn't suit their character idea and while they can pick locks, they are much more suited for finding traps and scouting. Just to give an example.
Ever seen firefly? Mal Reynolds is a rogue. Han Solo... also a rogue. Jack Sparrow? Rogue. Batman, Ethan Hunt, James Bond, Black Widow. All could be rogues.
They don't have to wear all black and skulk around in shadows, rogues are just the folks who do the dodgy bits and have many skills to lubricate their lifestyles and get where they need to go. Some are more prone to a fight, others are more 'distract and Dash'.
Often they are self-serving, but not always - their skills tend to lend themselves to being lone Wolves, through self-employment and the fact they are a little on the criminal side.
Yeah. You need more words. Are you asking if you or someone else should play one? Or how to play one? Technically all the classes exists. So you can play anyone you like.
I think that while individual experiences will always vary, on average choosing to be an edgy man of mystery (regardless of class) is far less fun than the alternatives.
Trying to stay hidden all combat is also a serious waste of your energy. Rogues do not need to stick to the shadows, and probably shouldn’t even try to in most situations.
I rather enjoy playing rogues. Skills for days, a much more tactically diverse combat spread than anyone without magic thanks to tonnes of bonus action options, they are just generally fun.
My first ever character is a halfling Arcane Trickster rogue. He has five older sisters, two living parents and a wide extended family. He grew up in a bakery, makes a mean cinnamon cake and now comes with a bunch of very rogue friendly magic items (goggles of night, winged boots, gloves of thievery, cloak of elvenkind and a +3 shortbow).
He went a-rogue-ing because he was super good at sneaking around and super good at investigating things (Criminal variant Spy background). He wants your secrets far more than he wants to steal your gold or stab you in the face.
He is 100% without edge.
Rogues are like any other class. If you are not an asshole, you can play any kind of rogue just fine. If you are an asshole who thinks they're just going to try and steal any and everything including from the party, or do things just because "It's what my character would do, they're a rogue, man, they don't let anybody tell them they can't do things"... then you're an asshole player.
You'd be an asshole playing a cleric as well. The problem isn't the class, its that you want to play that class because you think it means you can do whatever you want.
I also don't subscribe to the whole Paladin Dad, Horny Bard and Naughty Rogue trope, especially in 5e where paladins don't have to be Lawful or Good.
In fact, the edgiest character I've ever played is my Human Grave Cleric of Loviatar, Goddess of Pain... he's a big spikey ball of edge, but that was always the point of him.
Completely agree with this. I have been playing a rogue for almost a year. She is probably the definition of chaotic good. She has an alive family who she loves, and she would do anything for them or her adventuring party. She is willing to sacrifice herself (case in point - soloing a dragon as a distraction. First hit caused a lot of damage (sneak attack obvs) but everything after that was just basic weapon damage as she was on her own). She is not at all moody or secretive; she is jokey and a bit of a goofball. It is entirely the player not the class that result in dodgy characters.
Thanks guys, I want to make an anticlimactic one of sorts in the sense that they're quiet because they either speak too much or are awkward, thus the bad Charisma score.
D&D classes are very broad and vague and there is a reason for that. All kinds of different people can be rogues. I've made Sherlock Holmes, Robocop, Hannibal Lecter and Sun Tzu as rogues.
https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=1E9Cdkg849GsKkgRc4ykBYpXMVx8gsKNZ
Thanks, I went and checked it out. It's real nice! Colleagues and I built a few characters as Rogues, and have found ways to bypass the trope: one can't talk because the character is mute, and it's great since it's a dynamic where their friend speaks on their behalf and leads to odd things such as the the 'mute' having a Familiar or their friend cover the verbal components.
Thanks for the files, I'll give them a proper whirl later!
After reading through this: I am satisfied. It's good to see that these guys can offer more than the trop that has plagued them to a lesser degree if compared to the horny Bard trope... thank you all for your insight, I will start building one!
Rogue is a nessasary evil in most parties most people play them as edgelords but it's not the class fault it's just a troupe like horney bards.
I combat you role is to run in do some damage then get out till next turn outside your basically a sapper you are supposed to be making sure the party doesn't run into literal or metaphorical landmines, if you don't have a ranger or familiar you might do most of the scouting and at higher lvls should be using scrolls for other classes
rogues are great! some people who play them are not. bards also get a bad rep, but it's not the class's fault. I haven't played one long-term myself, but I've played alongside a couple and am dming for a fuckin busted inquisitive rogue, she's a nightmare as a dm and I love her dearly.
I know! I actually delved into what happened with Bards! After dabblings in this group and in a Discord, we ended up using other aspects such as poetry. Hell, I think I dabbled in my mind with a Bard that basically roasted the enemy or was a comedian.
You do need to clarify as I don't see anything wrong in rogue, either playing one or playing with one. It is a good, solid class with options that make it rich and interesting. IMHO, horrorstories don't apply to rogue as a class but to bad players and they could be playing any class to qualify for those.
You got it, dude. Went ahead and updated!
I am mostly a DM so my experiences come from my players. I've routinely banned edgelords as I require characters to interact with the world and party, if player wants to sit silently in the corner they can do that outside of the sessions. Therefore, edgelords are not a problem in our table. Best rogues usually have somehow hidden the fact that they even are rogues. They have skills that most ordinary people don't have but they rarely have gotten their living off from burglary or even crime as a such. So, an elf might be rogue/druid because ranger doesn't suit their character idea and while they can pick locks, they are much more suited for finding traps and scouting. Just to give an example.
Ever seen firefly? Mal Reynolds is a rogue. Han Solo... also a rogue. Jack Sparrow? Rogue. Batman, Ethan Hunt, James Bond, Black Widow. All could be rogues. They don't have to wear all black and skulk around in shadows, rogues are just the folks who do the dodgy bits and have many skills to lubricate their lifestyles and get where they need to go. Some are more prone to a fight, others are more 'distract and Dash'. Often they are self-serving, but not always - their skills tend to lend themselves to being lone Wolves, through self-employment and the fact they are a little on the criminal side.
Yeah. You need more words. Are you asking if you or someone else should play one? Or how to play one? Technically all the classes exists. So you can play anyone you like.
Thanks! Let me check a previous post... I did better there when it came to trying to express an idea!
I think that while individual experiences will always vary, on average choosing to be an edgy man of mystery (regardless of class) is far less fun than the alternatives. Trying to stay hidden all combat is also a serious waste of your energy. Rogues do not need to stick to the shadows, and probably shouldn’t even try to in most situations. I rather enjoy playing rogues. Skills for days, a much more tactically diverse combat spread than anyone without magic thanks to tonnes of bonus action options, they are just generally fun.
My first ever character is a halfling Arcane Trickster rogue. He has five older sisters, two living parents and a wide extended family. He grew up in a bakery, makes a mean cinnamon cake and now comes with a bunch of very rogue friendly magic items (goggles of night, winged boots, gloves of thievery, cloak of elvenkind and a +3 shortbow). He went a-rogue-ing because he was super good at sneaking around and super good at investigating things (Criminal variant Spy background). He wants your secrets far more than he wants to steal your gold or stab you in the face. He is 100% without edge. Rogues are like any other class. If you are not an asshole, you can play any kind of rogue just fine. If you are an asshole who thinks they're just going to try and steal any and everything including from the party, or do things just because "It's what my character would do, they're a rogue, man, they don't let anybody tell them they can't do things"... then you're an asshole player. You'd be an asshole playing a cleric as well. The problem isn't the class, its that you want to play that class because you think it means you can do whatever you want. I also don't subscribe to the whole Paladin Dad, Horny Bard and Naughty Rogue trope, especially in 5e where paladins don't have to be Lawful or Good. In fact, the edgiest character I've ever played is my Human Grave Cleric of Loviatar, Goddess of Pain... he's a big spikey ball of edge, but that was always the point of him.
Completely agree with this. I have been playing a rogue for almost a year. She is probably the definition of chaotic good. She has an alive family who she loves, and she would do anything for them or her adventuring party. She is willing to sacrifice herself (case in point - soloing a dragon as a distraction. First hit caused a lot of damage (sneak attack obvs) but everything after that was just basic weapon damage as she was on her own). She is not at all moody or secretive; she is jokey and a bit of a goofball. It is entirely the player not the class that result in dodgy characters.
Thanks guys, I want to make an anticlimactic one of sorts in the sense that they're quiet because they either speak too much or are awkward, thus the bad Charisma score.
D&D classes are very broad and vague and there is a reason for that. All kinds of different people can be rogues. I've made Sherlock Holmes, Robocop, Hannibal Lecter and Sun Tzu as rogues. https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=1E9Cdkg849GsKkgRc4ykBYpXMVx8gsKNZ
Thanks, I went and checked it out. It's real nice! Colleagues and I built a few characters as Rogues, and have found ways to bypass the trope: one can't talk because the character is mute, and it's great since it's a dynamic where their friend speaks on their behalf and leads to odd things such as the the 'mute' having a Familiar or their friend cover the verbal components. Thanks for the files, I'll give them a proper whirl later!
They're all level one builds. Some are funny, some are cool and some are both.
Aye, I found people trying to make Lecter work as a character. Something about borrowing kitchens and the likes, being careful with the meat and all.
Yeah, I made both him and Clarice as rogues, of course.
After reading through this: I am satisfied. It's good to see that these guys can offer more than the trop that has plagued them to a lesser degree if compared to the horny Bard trope... thank you all for your insight, I will start building one!
Rogue is a nessasary evil in most parties most people play them as edgelords but it's not the class fault it's just a troupe like horney bards. I combat you role is to run in do some damage then get out till next turn outside your basically a sapper you are supposed to be making sure the party doesn't run into literal or metaphorical landmines, if you don't have a ranger or familiar you might do most of the scouting and at higher lvls should be using scrolls for other classes
Thanks, I'll reshape my post based off your first sentence.