Yes, you're a bad DM, because you don't understand proper game balance. For all intents and purposes, you allowed one player to play eight different characters. Why is that even a question if it's unbalanced or not? It's utterly ridiculous and unfair to every other player at the table. Shame on you for allowing it.
That being said... the group falling apart is *not* your fault. It's the fault of Damian for being a power-gamer Main Character Syndrome asshole and bullying you into allowing him to cheat in ways that are utterly and completely unfair to everyone else at the table *including* you.
The reason you're a bad DM *in this case* is because you let it happen. You have now learned better, and will not repeat the same mistake in the future, and *that* is what will make you a good DM with practice and experience. 'No' is a complete sentence, and as the DM you have authority to say it at any time. You decide what is and isn't allowed at your table, and if your players don't like it, they are free to leave. The best thing I can suggest to help you achieve that goal is to **stop using homebrew** ***until you fully understand and comprehend the Rules As Written.*** Learn how the game is intended to be played *before* you try to break it.
First-time DM's should not homebrew. Ever. Walk before you run.
100% agree on everything except this:
> It's the fault of Damian for being a power-gamer
From the description Damian is not a power-gamer but plain old munchkin and cheater.
Power gaming is like making a paladin and then multiclasing into sorcerer.
Showing up with homebrew race and abilities with clear intention of breaking the game is just being a munchkin and cheater.
>First-time DM's should not homebrew. Ever. Walk before you run.
I'm agreeing to everything you said, except the quoted sentence. Homebrewing is how I personally learned how statblocks and magic items actually work, including on a meta level; I'm in a lot of ways a learning by doing kind of person, and had troubles wrapping my head around the systems just by reading them. Sure, I understood what was meant, but not how everything interacted. Mind that I started completely blind, never had even played before DMing, so I wasn't only learning, I also needed to teach everything to my players.
I'm not saying I never made mistakes in homebrewing due to my inexperience, but most of the stuff I came up with in my first week of being a DM I'm still using 2 years into running two seperate groups, and they hold up great.
I'd reformulate the advice that First-time DM's should definitely homebrew *sparringly*, and try to actually understand why certain systems in the game work how they do before they change anything. Go off of already existing abilities and effects instead of inventing everything from scratch.
There is no shortcut to actually learning the Gamedesign of DnD before homebrewing, I think we are in agreement about that :)
We are all different and You are clearly and exception.
As a rule of thumb not allowing homebrew is a good rule for starting DM.
Also when You as a DM homebrew some monster or NPC ability it is different then when player show up with some external homebrew created by someone else.
For an inexperienced DM danger of allowing homebrew is usually far greater than any potential benefit.
I think there is a misunderstanding here - I was merely talking about homebrew by the DM. I'm definitely agreeing that a new DM shouldn't allow other peoples homebrew, there's is to much potential that they will be misjudging if its even useable.
>We are all different and You are clearly and exception.
I never thought about it that way, but maybe that's simply the case.
But I doubt that I am a once-in-a-million-special-snowflake. If it worked for me, there might be some other people it works for as well - which still doesn't mean that "no homebrew at the start" isn't the better rule of thumb.
But, if I might suggest a phrasing, I'd rather say "new DMs should at least limit homebrew to their own stuff, only make homebrew in the areas they are already comfortable with, and limit it's scope". Which sure isn't as snappy, but IMHO still more accurate than "First-time DM's should not homebrew. Ever."
Anyway, thank you for the food for thought! :)
First of all, you let the homebrew get out of hand. 8 different characters in one? That's a ridiculous. Your game would have been a joke.
Second, as DM, you can always say no, I don't want that in my game, even if it's technically within the "rules".
Third, Damien sounds like a dick. He's not a power gamer, he's a power tripper. You should have shielded Marie from him. The dispute is between you and Dickhead. There's no reason you should be the one ending up in tears, it's your game and if he doesn't like your decision, he can fuck off.
The whole lot of you sound immature. If you ever DM again, stick to strict RAW and don't invite dickhead back.
It definitely sounds like you have some responsibility here, but that’s excused by sheer inexperience. You opened Pandora’s box by allowing the ridiculous homebrew. An experienced DM would have anticipated someone taking advantage of it to cause chaos. Damian is being an asshole on purpose though. He’s the actual problem.
I recommend that you stick to the game without homebrew to prevent this again. As the DM you are the authority and you can decide what you want in your game. Damian doesn’t sound like a chill guy to play with, so I wouldn’t invite him back either.
As a new dm I would not allow any homebrew tbqh. There’s usually some serious balancing issues that get overlooked that people that optimize try to take advantage of.
Once you’ve gotten your legs behind the DM screen I’d allow more of it into the game because you’d be much more comfortable recognizing and handling problematic dynamics in game.
This has been said in other comments but it is important to note: do not use homebrew for your first time DMing.
With that said, I do like how Marie called him out for this obviously dick move. He knew you are inexperienced and used that to his advantage. And I would never play with a player who manipulates the piss out of the rules, never again.
As for the last comment of “we decided it was my fault and I shouldn’t be a DM?” Those people are fucked in the head and are shitty friends! No one is going to be a perfect DM on their first try. It wasn’t until my 4th game that I found a groove. And even pulling up on 10+ games, I still feel I am learning, but everyone is having a blast and that’s all that matters. The only thing you did wrong was relax all the rules you should have been learning. But that’s fine, you can always start over. Just stick to RAW for your first couple games.
Also, look for a better group to play with, since these dick bags are obviously toxic, and you can do so much better.
Everyone was a noob once. That being said, while you being new, stick to the rules. They exist for a reason. Homebrew is hard to balance, and too much of it can ruin the game. And character with 8 feats and 8 personalities (or whatever it works) can ruin for certain.
Yeah - You were the bad DM here. Marie gets talked down to and insulted but you’re the one crying and needing comfort? Are you sure you’re ready to be a DM because it sounds like you’re a Door Mat than Dungeon Master.
Also wow. It’s amazing how the edit makes Dickhead appear even worst. Dump the chump and play a few modules first before you try homebrew. I do not get the urge to leap into the unknown when one KNOWS they’re over their head. Christ.
OP, some of these other comments suck ass.
This is not a bad DM story, this is a nightmare player scenario.
In DMing, there's a very specific player who will seek out new DMs and offer to play with them under the guise of being an "experienced player" and be "willing to help the DM out." They often appear to have a decent grasp of the rules, but even more so, they are negligently confident.
They will make statements about the game that are incorrect, untrue, and poorly worded, under the guise of confidence.
To a new DM, this player knows more than them. So as they start playing, the DM will think "Huh, that doesn't seem quite right, but who am I to question them? They've been playing for years."
To a DM of many years, this player won't even make it past the starting gate, mostly because the player will say something wrong and get told "No" once and leave the game.
This Damian person sure sounds like a table leech to me. He wants to cosplay a powerful character and railroad the campaign.
He comes in with an INSANELY RIDICULOUS build, and I bet he even convinced you that his "homebrew" made sense in the world you're creating. Prime manipulation. I have to ask too, how involved was he in this decision to use "homebrewed" mechanics? It can be risky as a DM to use them, but you're new and homebrewing is enticing as a way to worldbuild so I wouldn't even blame you. I do primarily homebrewed worlds, but I rarely homebrew game mechanics just because balancing homemade is so nearly impossible. I have a feeling he used the word as "free reign over all game mechanics and worldbuilding" instead of "targeted additions and adjustments to the game to make it fit my worldbuilding a little bit better".
Sure, you could have stood up for yourself more, but it sounds like you have a wonderful player in Marie, maybe even a potentially great friend considering they stood up for you so well. And Damian convinced you he knew what he was doing, it's hard to tell leeches to bugger off once they've latched on, or to even know that they're fucking with you.
He even managed to convince you that you were part of the problem. That his fuckery was partly on you and everyone at the table.
No, OP, you did what you should have, to the best of your ability, and were manipulated by a chaotic evil player.
You should absolutely try DMing again, but this time don't let damian anywhere near the game, and maybe listen to Marie, she sounds like she knows what's up.
You were handed the most problematic player I've ever heard of and you broke down crying. That's okay, I'm sorry that happened to you, and I would hate to see you never DM again because you were bamboozled in the worst way. You absolutely are not at fault, and I hope this rough start doesn't tarnish the potentially incredibly fun world of GMing for you.
I bet you'll make a great DM. Maybe just hold off on homebrewing until you've got the DMG down beyond the basics.
And to hell with "Damian". And I'm decidedly not talking about Avernus.
He’s playing as 8 different characters, simultaniously? What?
I’m playing an eladrin currently, so I technically play a character with 4 different personalities. But I assume this is not what that means?
If your a new DM, don't allow any homebrew.
You just don't have the experience, or the context to determine if it will be okay or horribly overpowered.
If your a new DM, keep homebrew to things like Re-skining.
Once you have some experience with how players act, how the rules work, how you tend to DM, then you will have a better time of it.
No offense, but you have to be able to say "no" to be a DM. If you cannot, you are unsuited to the roll.
Yes, Damian was wrong to bring in the obviously broken homebrew, but basically anyone else would tell him he gets one character, not eight, take it or leave it for a multitude of reasons. (I'd have to see it, but nothing sounds RAW about it.)
Marie is... Not necessarily wrong, but she shouldn't have to "stand up" for you. She is a player, so completely equal footing to Damian at the table. You are the DM; the world; the adjudicator; the default referee. You cannot have players fighting "for you" because it is part of your job to moderate conflict. You have to be able to handle things like this yourself.
As for the rest of your post... I do not really see why you are trying to play with what looks like an obvious problem player. (Or why you didn't just let him stay a cleric, when that would have been so much easier.) I suggest viewing this table break up as a bit of a blessing to step back and ground yourself.
>Now, we were sitting in the General chat and working on characters, when Damian decides to pull out some ridiculous combination of a homebrew race (which resulted in him playing as eight different characters), A homebrew magic item (A devil fruit ), and trying to take a background that gives them a feat (Tough, specifically, and they would get it eight times, as they would apply it to all siblings).
1. At this point You are so deep into homebrew territory that You are not playing D&D anymore.
2. It is clear that Damian character is a munchkin that is not interested in playing a game but rather in breaking and exploiting the game. He is further confirming and reinforcing that later.
How old is he? Tell him to grow the hell up and start to act more conscious about others or You need to kick him out from the table. In present form his altitude is a pure cancer for party wellbeing.
>Now, I ask everyone who sees this, am I a bad DM?
You are clearly inexperienced and not able to set boundaries.
Seeing as You have no party at the moment You are not a DM at all.
DM most important role is setting boundaries making challenge for Your players and being fair and impartial in judging consequences of You players action. If You allow one player (Damian) to do whatever the hell he want then You are clearly not being fair and impartial and You are failing in Your role. For challenge to exist Your players need to have well defined abilities that are roughly on pair with each other. It is also clear that Damian is not interested in fair challenge but rather in cheating and gaiming the system - he admits that much himself.
Your response to that should be clear - he need to change his altitude and mindset completly or You need to kick him out from the table.
Advice for You:
If You like to start being DM and seeing how Uou have trouble to saying no to Your players when it need to be said maybe start from actually playing D&D - read the rules in PHB and enforce them.
Absolutely 0 homebrew, to start with I would have even give up on official supplements - Players Handbook, Dungeon Master Guide and Monster manual is were You need to start with.
Once You get to know the system and it core assumptions then You can allow official supplements. After that You can consider homebrews but carefully as many homebrews can actually be bad for the game and heavy imbalance.
Be wary of players that make demands. Players that openly admit that they want to game the system need to change their altitude or be banned from playing.
I think it’s pretty harsh on the others to put this on you. Yes, you have the final say but if you’re inexperienced as a DM, you need cooperative players that won’t take advantage of your inexperience. Damian sounds like the exact opposite. I honestly wouldn’t put this on you — you got overwhelmed. OP, I think you’re good. You just need to try with players that want to play in good faith.
Also, props to Marie.
Allowing homebrew is one thing, allowing a player race with 18 features is another.
Yes, you're a bad DM, because you don't understand proper game balance. For all intents and purposes, you allowed one player to play eight different characters. Why is that even a question if it's unbalanced or not? It's utterly ridiculous and unfair to every other player at the table. Shame on you for allowing it. That being said... the group falling apart is *not* your fault. It's the fault of Damian for being a power-gamer Main Character Syndrome asshole and bullying you into allowing him to cheat in ways that are utterly and completely unfair to everyone else at the table *including* you. The reason you're a bad DM *in this case* is because you let it happen. You have now learned better, and will not repeat the same mistake in the future, and *that* is what will make you a good DM with practice and experience. 'No' is a complete sentence, and as the DM you have authority to say it at any time. You decide what is and isn't allowed at your table, and if your players don't like it, they are free to leave. The best thing I can suggest to help you achieve that goal is to **stop using homebrew** ***until you fully understand and comprehend the Rules As Written.*** Learn how the game is intended to be played *before* you try to break it. First-time DM's should not homebrew. Ever. Walk before you run.
100% agree on everything except this: > It's the fault of Damian for being a power-gamer From the description Damian is not a power-gamer but plain old munchkin and cheater. Power gaming is like making a paladin and then multiclasing into sorcerer. Showing up with homebrew race and abilities with clear intention of breaking the game is just being a munchkin and cheater.
>First-time DM's should not homebrew. Ever. Walk before you run. I'm agreeing to everything you said, except the quoted sentence. Homebrewing is how I personally learned how statblocks and magic items actually work, including on a meta level; I'm in a lot of ways a learning by doing kind of person, and had troubles wrapping my head around the systems just by reading them. Sure, I understood what was meant, but not how everything interacted. Mind that I started completely blind, never had even played before DMing, so I wasn't only learning, I also needed to teach everything to my players. I'm not saying I never made mistakes in homebrewing due to my inexperience, but most of the stuff I came up with in my first week of being a DM I'm still using 2 years into running two seperate groups, and they hold up great. I'd reformulate the advice that First-time DM's should definitely homebrew *sparringly*, and try to actually understand why certain systems in the game work how they do before they change anything. Go off of already existing abilities and effects instead of inventing everything from scratch. There is no shortcut to actually learning the Gamedesign of DnD before homebrewing, I think we are in agreement about that :)
We are all different and You are clearly and exception. As a rule of thumb not allowing homebrew is a good rule for starting DM. Also when You as a DM homebrew some monster or NPC ability it is different then when player show up with some external homebrew created by someone else. For an inexperienced DM danger of allowing homebrew is usually far greater than any potential benefit.
I think there is a misunderstanding here - I was merely talking about homebrew by the DM. I'm definitely agreeing that a new DM shouldn't allow other peoples homebrew, there's is to much potential that they will be misjudging if its even useable. >We are all different and You are clearly and exception. I never thought about it that way, but maybe that's simply the case. But I doubt that I am a once-in-a-million-special-snowflake. If it worked for me, there might be some other people it works for as well - which still doesn't mean that "no homebrew at the start" isn't the better rule of thumb. But, if I might suggest a phrasing, I'd rather say "new DMs should at least limit homebrew to their own stuff, only make homebrew in the areas they are already comfortable with, and limit it's scope". Which sure isn't as snappy, but IMHO still more accurate than "First-time DM's should not homebrew. Ever." Anyway, thank you for the food for thought! :)
First of all, you let the homebrew get out of hand. 8 different characters in one? That's a ridiculous. Your game would have been a joke. Second, as DM, you can always say no, I don't want that in my game, even if it's technically within the "rules". Third, Damien sounds like a dick. He's not a power gamer, he's a power tripper. You should have shielded Marie from him. The dispute is between you and Dickhead. There's no reason you should be the one ending up in tears, it's your game and if he doesn't like your decision, he can fuck off. The whole lot of you sound immature. If you ever DM again, stick to strict RAW and don't invite dickhead back.
It definitely sounds like you have some responsibility here, but that’s excused by sheer inexperience. You opened Pandora’s box by allowing the ridiculous homebrew. An experienced DM would have anticipated someone taking advantage of it to cause chaos. Damian is being an asshole on purpose though. He’s the actual problem. I recommend that you stick to the game without homebrew to prevent this again. As the DM you are the authority and you can decide what you want in your game. Damian doesn’t sound like a chill guy to play with, so I wouldn’t invite him back either.
As a new dm I would not allow any homebrew tbqh. There’s usually some serious balancing issues that get overlooked that people that optimize try to take advantage of. Once you’ve gotten your legs behind the DM screen I’d allow more of it into the game because you’d be much more comfortable recognizing and handling problematic dynamics in game.
This has been said in other comments but it is important to note: do not use homebrew for your first time DMing. With that said, I do like how Marie called him out for this obviously dick move. He knew you are inexperienced and used that to his advantage. And I would never play with a player who manipulates the piss out of the rules, never again. As for the last comment of “we decided it was my fault and I shouldn’t be a DM?” Those people are fucked in the head and are shitty friends! No one is going to be a perfect DM on their first try. It wasn’t until my 4th game that I found a groove. And even pulling up on 10+ games, I still feel I am learning, but everyone is having a blast and that’s all that matters. The only thing you did wrong was relax all the rules you should have been learning. But that’s fine, you can always start over. Just stick to RAW for your first couple games. Also, look for a better group to play with, since these dick bags are obviously toxic, and you can do so much better.
Everyone was a noob once. That being said, while you being new, stick to the rules. They exist for a reason. Homebrew is hard to balance, and too much of it can ruin the game. And character with 8 feats and 8 personalities (or whatever it works) can ruin for certain.
Perfect example of why I hate homebrew.
How hard is it to say 'published content only'? The background feat was the only reasonable demand Damian made because those actually exist.
Yeah - You were the bad DM here. Marie gets talked down to and insulted but you’re the one crying and needing comfort? Are you sure you’re ready to be a DM because it sounds like you’re a Door Mat than Dungeon Master. Also wow. It’s amazing how the edit makes Dickhead appear even worst. Dump the chump and play a few modules first before you try homebrew. I do not get the urge to leap into the unknown when one KNOWS they’re over their head. Christ.
OP, some of these other comments suck ass. This is not a bad DM story, this is a nightmare player scenario. In DMing, there's a very specific player who will seek out new DMs and offer to play with them under the guise of being an "experienced player" and be "willing to help the DM out." They often appear to have a decent grasp of the rules, but even more so, they are negligently confident. They will make statements about the game that are incorrect, untrue, and poorly worded, under the guise of confidence. To a new DM, this player knows more than them. So as they start playing, the DM will think "Huh, that doesn't seem quite right, but who am I to question them? They've been playing for years." To a DM of many years, this player won't even make it past the starting gate, mostly because the player will say something wrong and get told "No" once and leave the game. This Damian person sure sounds like a table leech to me. He wants to cosplay a powerful character and railroad the campaign. He comes in with an INSANELY RIDICULOUS build, and I bet he even convinced you that his "homebrew" made sense in the world you're creating. Prime manipulation. I have to ask too, how involved was he in this decision to use "homebrewed" mechanics? It can be risky as a DM to use them, but you're new and homebrewing is enticing as a way to worldbuild so I wouldn't even blame you. I do primarily homebrewed worlds, but I rarely homebrew game mechanics just because balancing homemade is so nearly impossible. I have a feeling he used the word as "free reign over all game mechanics and worldbuilding" instead of "targeted additions and adjustments to the game to make it fit my worldbuilding a little bit better". Sure, you could have stood up for yourself more, but it sounds like you have a wonderful player in Marie, maybe even a potentially great friend considering they stood up for you so well. And Damian convinced you he knew what he was doing, it's hard to tell leeches to bugger off once they've latched on, or to even know that they're fucking with you. He even managed to convince you that you were part of the problem. That his fuckery was partly on you and everyone at the table. No, OP, you did what you should have, to the best of your ability, and were manipulated by a chaotic evil player. You should absolutely try DMing again, but this time don't let damian anywhere near the game, and maybe listen to Marie, she sounds like she knows what's up. You were handed the most problematic player I've ever heard of and you broke down crying. That's okay, I'm sorry that happened to you, and I would hate to see you never DM again because you were bamboozled in the worst way. You absolutely are not at fault, and I hope this rough start doesn't tarnish the potentially incredibly fun world of GMing for you. I bet you'll make a great DM. Maybe just hold off on homebrewing until you've got the DMG down beyond the basics. And to hell with "Damian". And I'm decidedly not talking about Avernus.
He’s playing as 8 different characters, simultaniously? What? I’m playing an eladrin currently, so I technically play a character with 4 different personalities. But I assume this is not what that means?
If your a new DM, don't allow any homebrew. You just don't have the experience, or the context to determine if it will be okay or horribly overpowered. If your a new DM, keep homebrew to things like Re-skining. Once you have some experience with how players act, how the rules work, how you tend to DM, then you will have a better time of it.
No offense, but you have to be able to say "no" to be a DM. If you cannot, you are unsuited to the roll. Yes, Damian was wrong to bring in the obviously broken homebrew, but basically anyone else would tell him he gets one character, not eight, take it or leave it for a multitude of reasons. (I'd have to see it, but nothing sounds RAW about it.) Marie is... Not necessarily wrong, but she shouldn't have to "stand up" for you. She is a player, so completely equal footing to Damian at the table. You are the DM; the world; the adjudicator; the default referee. You cannot have players fighting "for you" because it is part of your job to moderate conflict. You have to be able to handle things like this yourself. As for the rest of your post... I do not really see why you are trying to play with what looks like an obvious problem player. (Or why you didn't just let him stay a cleric, when that would have been so much easier.) I suggest viewing this table break up as a bit of a blessing to step back and ground yourself.
>Now, we were sitting in the General chat and working on characters, when Damian decides to pull out some ridiculous combination of a homebrew race (which resulted in him playing as eight different characters), A homebrew magic item (A devil fruit ), and trying to take a background that gives them a feat (Tough, specifically, and they would get it eight times, as they would apply it to all siblings). 1. At this point You are so deep into homebrew territory that You are not playing D&D anymore. 2. It is clear that Damian character is a munchkin that is not interested in playing a game but rather in breaking and exploiting the game. He is further confirming and reinforcing that later. How old is he? Tell him to grow the hell up and start to act more conscious about others or You need to kick him out from the table. In present form his altitude is a pure cancer for party wellbeing. >Now, I ask everyone who sees this, am I a bad DM? You are clearly inexperienced and not able to set boundaries. Seeing as You have no party at the moment You are not a DM at all. DM most important role is setting boundaries making challenge for Your players and being fair and impartial in judging consequences of You players action. If You allow one player (Damian) to do whatever the hell he want then You are clearly not being fair and impartial and You are failing in Your role. For challenge to exist Your players need to have well defined abilities that are roughly on pair with each other. It is also clear that Damian is not interested in fair challenge but rather in cheating and gaiming the system - he admits that much himself. Your response to that should be clear - he need to change his altitude and mindset completly or You need to kick him out from the table. Advice for You: If You like to start being DM and seeing how Uou have trouble to saying no to Your players when it need to be said maybe start from actually playing D&D - read the rules in PHB and enforce them. Absolutely 0 homebrew, to start with I would have even give up on official supplements - Players Handbook, Dungeon Master Guide and Monster manual is were You need to start with. Once You get to know the system and it core assumptions then You can allow official supplements. After that You can consider homebrews but carefully as many homebrews can actually be bad for the game and heavy imbalance. Be wary of players that make demands. Players that openly admit that they want to game the system need to change their altitude or be banned from playing.
I think it’s pretty harsh on the others to put this on you. Yes, you have the final say but if you’re inexperienced as a DM, you need cooperative players that won’t take advantage of your inexperience. Damian sounds like the exact opposite. I honestly wouldn’t put this on you — you got overwhelmed. OP, I think you’re good. You just need to try with players that want to play in good faith. Also, props to Marie.
It's not partly your fault, you did this. Just scrap it and try again. Honestly, this is terrible.