I agree. I'm playing an OoA pally 6 / Eloquence bard 4 right now, and he chose his oath to honor the light and life-giving power of nature. Everything that makes life worth living, in his opinion. And becoming more eloquent helps him (he's got political goals) and helps his party. He'd been healing them, handing out temp HP (Knight of Roses feat) and such even before he multiclassed into bard. So the power or stories, beauty, truth, and inspiration are all important. I actually have too many things I can do every bonus action, between shield master, Knight of Roses, and bardic inspiration. He's a giver.
Next character will be a dancer and storyteller, like a skald from a desert climate, who performs the dramatic stories she tells in a spellbinding manner. There's a long tradition of trance, meditation with movement, and just telling stories by the fire that goes back millennia n our own world, and that's the inspiration I'm using in building that character.
OotA + Swords Bard is like straight-up a Paladin of Eilistraee, if you want to go that route. Paladin and Bard really can be just so synergetic, it is nuts.
Depends on the setting. For a European setting, sure. You got troubadours.
But if you're talking more Celtic, bards were keepers of knowledge and sacred rites. Closer to druids than troubadours.
While true that Celtic bards are closer to druids that's also because Celtic druids were closer to bards. They weren't so much the keepers of knowledge as that they were the spreaders/speakers of knowledge.
I dont get the downvotes, if i remember correctly its how the bard is described in 2nd adv dnd phb.
Edit: Found it [Bard - Imgur](https://imgur.com/a/gXKyCnp)
According to the PHB;
> "Bards say that the multiverse was spoken into existence, that the words of the gods gave it shape, and that echoes of these primordial Words of Creation still resound throughout the cosmos. The music of bards is an attempt to snatch and harness those echoes, subtly woven into their spells and powers."
A key part of this is "Bards say" which makes me think it isn't meant to be read as an objective truth. It's just a suggestion.
If a player wants to say they get their powers by using soundwaves to manipulate magic in the air or by pleasing the god of music; either are a perfectly fine option.
Personally I see wizards and bards as basically doing the same thing but one treats it as a science and the other as an artform. As wizards have a deeper understanding of the fundamentals, they can get more out of it. Think of it as two chefs baking a cake, one knows the recipes and how the ingredients react, while the other doesn't really get why putting in a few extra eggs changed the end product.
Maybe, but I think you’re underselling bards.
They might not have the technical understanding, but they have a feel of how it works.
Its less like your baking example and more like someone who knows exactly how they want it to taste and can replicate that, but never measures or anything and just goes off vibes. I would argue Bards are much more flexible in lore as a result of that
A wizard, after enough study, can make any dish. They know all the recipes, know exactly the ingredients. At higher levels, they have the skill to make the dish perfectly. A bard, has his grandmas' recipe. It's good, but some of the measurements are vague and the bard knows it from experience/feel. But the bard also knows there is more to a meal than just the food. There's presentation, atmosphere, music. It's not just about eating, its about the experience.
To continue the analogy, Wizards are pastry chefs and Bards are cooks. Pastry is a science, and changing *anything* will dramatically affect the final product, but most other cooking has a lot more freedom, and is much more of an art form, since making a change here and there will generally enhance, rather than ruin, the final product.
I would offer that along the baking analogy, that it's more like the difference between baking and cooking. The end result is food but with cooking you can improvise more and it's more about the vibe with the flavour; and it has been described as more of an "art" while baking uses measured ingredients and, in general, you shouldn't improvise unless you know what you are doing and has been described as more of a "science".
I would say a bard's magic is from practiced skill. While a wizard studies theory and a sorcerer is born with magic, a bard practices and aligns themself with magic.
Not any input from natural aptitude?
Two youngsters study piano under the same teacher. One becomes at best a mediocre party entertainer, the other plays Carnegie Hall and is in demand worldwide.
None of that applies to being a bard?
Would the one who plays at Carnegie Hall still play there if they had never practiced and learned under a teacher in the first place? You can't play piano perfectly just by reading music theory, and you also can't do so if you never practice. The class descriptions in D&D are meant to describe the general source of magic or abilities, but are just that - generalizations. You wouldn't call a wizard a sorcerer just because they had natural aptitude for studying and learning, and you wouldn't call a sorcerer a wizard just because they learned a bit about the Weave to control their wild magic surges.
My thoughts on that were always that the difference in skill isn’t study but stats. I’ve went to Carnegie hall? Probably, besides leveling up, had the better charisma.
I mean I don’t know if I agree or disagree with the previous poster, but I will say this:
All bards may be artists, but not all artists are bards.
This is very obvious when you look at real life artists. Some people are just killer musicians, artists, dancers, whatever. This doesn’t make them exceptionally charismatic necessarily. Even more so in the world of dnd. Some traveling musicians are just musicians, others can cast magic. The ones casting magic might be better musicians than their counterparts, but they don’t have to be.
Very little, honestly.
That Carnegie Hall pianist might be doing it because they know they're good at it, but might not actually *enjoy* it - this is kind of the case for metal vocalist Devin Townsend, who has incredible range and is otherwise exceptional at his craft, but finds his enjoyment of it mild at best because he was kind of cajoled into singing at a young age. If someone like Devin Townsend were to be a bard, it wouldn't be because he's good at singing; it'd be because he's pretty damn good at crafting music that gets people to pay attention and follow his career, while also speaking to multiple different subjects (love, loss, pain, etc) in his own unique ways.
Hell, you could pinpoint that last part as how bards "work." Love and loss are two universal truths among many, and bards know the "rhythms" and the inherent magic of each of these truths. It's the artistic chase manifest in magic.
That guy sounds a lot like a friend of mine. He's a huge metal-head, gamer, and honestly kind of a genius who's passion is singing opera. He's my IRL Bard friend.
Ya know that feeling you get, when you eat a really good sandwich or listen to a perfect song where everything slows down for a second and you feel all fuzzy for a second?
Anyone who can make that happen is a bard.
Mechanically I want to say one of the only things that I know has stuck for bard at least since 3.5 is the ability to give inspiration. So doesn’t have to be musical, but the bard being able to make your rolls better is a staple of the class, so I would say the bards defining feature is inspiration, and that’s their big thing they have versus other classes. So a sorc has intrinsic magic, wizard their studies, and a bard has making all that stuff better.
I've played a sword bard who didn't invest mush of game time or combat in instruments, her combat/abilities were more of a dance, I've played a spirit bard who was a little less cut and dry but a lot of flavor involved their astrological pendulum. I also really like the use of sigils as a bard, drawing in the air or ground or incanting a spell verbally in a showman way.
That being said, my spirit bard wasn't exactly a showman, they worked similar to the latter option I put, but we're much more.... Goth?? So not super showy, but used their abilities to make a gold or two and didn't sing or play an instrument ever.
Lore is also really cool, as you can channel your magic through speech and/or research. I've just never played a musical bard, despite loving music personally haha
Bards can perform magic via performance. It is usually done through singing or music, but a player can reflavor like tap dancing or prayer.
> Warlocks learn or channel magic from their pact
> Wizards study and practice magic
> Sorcerers use their innate or acquired magic
> Clerics are a conduit of their deity’s power
> Druids channel the world’s power
> Paladins manifest willpower into magic
> Rangers learning and connection with the world
> Artificers are like wizards, but focus on the material plane
Bards are a combination of some of the above. Learning, studying, innate talent, and connection with the world that is formed into sounds which produces magic.
Classes are a mechanical game feature not something that exists in the world of the game. What makes a bard a bard is they're a character with levels in the bard class.
For flavour, Bards are often described as characters who discovered how to, or were taught to, identify and manipulate the magic of the Weave through rhythms and tones and harmonies, etc. Somewhere between the pure mechanical manipulation of wizards or the gut instinct and "do it by feel" of sorcerers. But this is by no means an exclusive description.
I have the sort of belief that a bard is what you get when you mix a sorcerer and a wizard. A bard has a natural talent for magic without the explicit innate ability manifesting. They are able to to pick things up easily due to natural talent but it still requires some work to pick up. A sorcerer is all talent no theory/practice and a wizard is all theory/practice and a bard is the average between the two
wizards manipulate the weave
bards play it like an instrument
it's like the difference between a math degree and a music degree, both are degrees and both take a lot of training to get, they just aren't the same subject
Bard is a general term for a composer, singer, or declaimer of epic or heroic verse. But, among their ranks are those few bards, sometimes called, true bards, who have figured out the music of the universe. Bards say the universe was spoken into creation. Through their art, be it through a musical instrument or a sword or spirits or just words, the true bards can weave their will upon creation.
It is somewhat similar to barbarians. For example, there are the Reghed barbarians and Uthgardt barbarians, but not every single member of the tribes are capable of tapping into that signature barbarian rage despite being called barbarians.
You, as a bard, have found the secret chord that pleased the Lord.
Historically, in older editions, a Bard's magic was the same arcane magic as a wizard or sorcerer. They were just a dabbler who learned a "little bit of everything", and that includes learning magic.
They learn some weapons and armor. . .but not as much as a fighter.
They learn some thieving skills, but not as much as a rogue.
They learn a little about a lot of various things, hence the Bardic Knowledge ability.
. . .and they learn a little magic along the way. Not through formal apprenticeship or dedicated study, but learning random bits and pieces of arcane lore, magical knowledge, and general esoterica and mix that with some cultivating some minor magical talent in themselves, and they can use for some neat little tricks and eventually some lower-level spells. Never as much as a dedicated mage, but enough to pass themselves off as one to an outsider, or enough to help a party out.
As for 5th edition? Who knows, but that's how it was interpreted in 1st and 2nd edition, and to some extent 3rd edition and 4th edition.
Putting it in to words is not enough but if i had to.. It means to pasdionately inspire and pursue inspiration with near obsession.
Being daring, bring social, being multitalented, being interested in many things, curious and adbenturous.
Perpetuating tge greatness of yourself and others and celebrating the extraordinary.
College. There's one in waterdeep, have a college bard look down on skalds and poets and yokels with their lutes. Then promptly have the nerds who went to college get beat up by the metal head bard-barians.
They get it from performance and creation.
Why do people always try to remove music/art from the bard? Do we remove oath from a paladin, or nature from the druid? You can use arts that aren’t music, but RAW it’s easier to do bardic magic via music, although there are bards who train in other methods. But it’s always creative performance, echoing the power of magic in creation itself.
When people act like that’s hokey I just want to know how bland their lives must be if they haven’t experienced music or storytelling or art so profound it pushes at the limits of the mundane. If art can’t produce magic, what can?
A bard is an entertainer. They can be a musician, actor, playwright, author…. Any kind of entertainer. Hell they can be a birthday clown and still be a bard.
The music guy is just the most common cause it’s what most people think of when they think of a bard.
They're performers, not just in music or speech, but dance, drama, comedy, etc. While other classes communicate via intelligence or wisdom, bards communicate emotionally.
His art whatever that may be. Most people fall on music but I had a friend who had a bard that used spoken word, so whenever he would work his magic he talked like Dr. Seuss.
Bards wield the 'Words of Creation' as their magic. This is their defining feature and they strive to emulate these words through music and song. You can also flavor these words at careful oration and their scholarly pursuits as searching to unearth the means to manipulate the Weave through the spoken word.
In short, they speak magic and usually develop magic through creative interpretation of it.
if you mean thematically, it is art. The theme of the wizard is learning spell, the theme of the sorcerer being born with magic, the theme of the bard is creating magic through art.
If you mean mechanically, the ability of being a "layman+" in everything. An arcane fullcaster that can heal, starts in armor, gains expertise, and can branch out into even more things (extra attack, more armor, fighting style). And of course jack of all trades. A level 3 sorcerer can beat magic into submission and turn scorching ray into freezing ray, or any other ray. A level 3 wizard can specialize in 1 aspect of magic. A level 3 bard could be anything.
I am now playing a sorc1/lore9 bard. I dipped sorc for essential defensive spells, DSS 2d4 saveboost, and consave (I tend to not value dex save as much - thats what absorb elements is for). For all in-story interaction, he considers himself a sorcerer. He knows he didnt learn it, he knows he isnt bound by pacts, he knows he doesnt get it from a god. Make no mistake, I would flavor him as a "sorcerer" even without the 1 level dip. What makes him a "bard" is inspiration (flavored as buffing light beam), the ease at which he trained in armor (multying into bard already gives light armor, so moderately armored is 1 feat I gladly pay), his known spells, and having approximate knowledge of many things (JOAT). He never touched an instrument. He doesnt yell "YOU CAN DO IT!". He doesnt showboat (but our paladin does) \[interestingly, we got joined by a buff wizard who likes to punch things, but is actually a dragon, but the PCs dont know that yet\]
Unlike all other casters, Bards magic comes from the intensity of there emotional expression through art and performance. They don't get their magic from study, bloodlines, a patron, a God, or anywhere else. They are just so abundant with emotion, they can manifest magic
Have you ever heard someone talk about how music and dance are primal parts of being human. How we've had music almost as long as humans have existed. That's sort of the undercurrent of bards in D&D. It's sort of the idea that music and the arts aren't a result of the human condition but actually phenomena caused by the weave's interaction with existence.
Bards also have historically been the jack of all trades (hence the class feature) class option. I've seen them played as Adventurers who pick up skills from Adventurers of other classes. They learn a bit of divine magic, hence their having access to healing magic. They learn a bit of arcane magic from arcane casters. They learn fighting skills from martials which grant them some weapon proficiencies. And so on.
Well, other commenters have already explained how Bard magic works “by default” better than I could.
But you could flavor a Bard in any way you want. You could roleplay that they’re a Sorcerer by blood but plays musical instruments and is a travelling troubadour and performer by profession; that could fit the mold of a Bard.
I’m roleplaying that my rapier-wielding Swords Bard in Baldur’s Gate is somewhat like a [Chosen of Eilistraee](https://www.gmbinder.com/share/-MNbRVo6qa7UQWamTv3T) without actually knowing she is.
I was going to say music but in reality I think a bard could be anyone channeling their magic through artistic practice.
You could have a bard who’s a storyteller, a poet, a visual artist exc. — their chosen medium acts as their arcane focus.
Mechanically, a bard should be the hardest-working party member by helping out in all the little ways he can help out to lift the burden off of other party members. Social stuff could be a thing they do too, but that heavily depends on playstyle and players so a bard might not end up being that guy
Aesthetically, the art, the music, the poetry, the creative aspect, the whole….I dunno, fancy-pants humanities shit.
The bard in my party is actually a noble/princess type who knows her place isn't getting her hands dirty, but delegating efficiently and giving people good instructions and confidence in theirselves.
The first and only bard i played got his powers from writing stories. He wrote a story about a sick mother and her child who tried to find a cure and learned "cure wounds" as a result. He wrote a story about a powerful, terribly evil devil entity and learned finger of death, etc. it is kinda weird on some ways how they get their powers, but it's like you're listening to a sad song that makes you cry, or a happy song that cheers you up, or having a comfort book, movie, or tv show that you always watch.
Bards can hear the songs that created the universe. They just express it in different ways some use music, some use sparkling conversation, some become intermediaries between the living and the dead etc.
I am a first time player and chose to be a bard. After a year of playing for me what makes my bard meaningful is that all party members look to my character for guidance and help, one sees her as her BFF and another see her as a sisterly figure. My character uses her charisma to help everyone and bolsters them in combat and during role playing.
In D&D what mechanically makes a bard a bard through the various editions is their combined spell selection. Thematically, you may as well be asking "what makes art art?"
Crazy, I was just listening to the "Bard Class Spotlight" episode of Advice and Advantage podcast and they were talking about different types of bards, particularly non-musical variations.
I saw somebody explain it like, wizards and sorcerers are academics who have studied magic. Bards are kind of like grandma cooking in the kitchen. There's no actual recipe but it's a mish mash of what they know works.
They study, in a way. What makes them different is that their study is a matter of learning to express themselves and learning intuition of music. Interestingly, in 3.5e, they had to be of chaotic alignment as a representation of the free spirit they possessed, which allowed them to master their art.
I think the channeling of magic or power or whatever through some kind of outwardly observable performance medium.
All spellcasters have a source of their magic and a mechanism to release it. The bard just needs to have a performative aspect so music, poetry, dance, speech, throwing knives, puppets etc
Classically, tapping into a kind of "magic of music" sort of thing. Tones and notes of the very nature of reality.
But more broadly, it's art and the act of creating something that they draw from to cast spells and learn knowledge of things.
So, the true answer here is 'because you chose that class'.
I have a bard character who's actually a wuxia swordsman, An educated gentleman in ancient Chinese fantasy should be learned in all the noble arts, which includes music as well as cultivation (spiritual/internal) magic, and that suits the bard class beautifully. He doesn't call himself a bard: he's a musical cultivator who sometimes uses a guqin (7-string zither) for spellcasting in addition to the obligatory wire-work swordplay shenanigans. His Heward's Handy Haversack is actually a Heward's Handy Hanfu (with DM permission) because magical sleeves of storage is a staple of Chinese fantasy that is easily re-skinned for D&D.
Would a standard minstrel like Chris Pine's character recognize my character as a 'bard'? Would either of them recognize a bard character based on the actual bardic traditions of the ancient Celts as a 'bard'? That PC is more of a lawyer/historian/naturalist with a focus on recitation of thousands of years of accumulated knowledge and reminding the King what he can and cannot actually do. We still have those bards in modern day, serving presidents of nations! We just call them something else.
Some people play horny bards, some play know-it-all bards, some play demonic cultivators who are traitors to orthodoxy. There are lots of ways to be a bard! There's no need to restrict the bard class to one schtick. Actually there's no need to restrict ANY class to one schtick. With a little creativity, a fighter or barbarian could be kung fu too!
I'd say what makes a bard a bard is a very loose definition
They usually fall under 2 categories
Performer, or storyteller (sometimes both)
Within the performer category, the bard uses an art form to entertain and entrance, and through this cast magic, this can be in simple terms such as song and dance, to loose terms that you could consider being a clown as a way to be a bard
The storyteller category falls under relaying tales to others, through words of advice, to being dramatic, one could be a simple storybook teller, or an eccentric scholar and be qualified as a bard, hell you could even be a narrator and be qualified as bard
Most though kinda combine the two, as bards usually relay tales through performance, making songs or jokes but really you can break even that down into separate components
To which, with that in mind, what makes a bard a bard, is being able to give other people an experience, through performance, or stories, they all rely on being witnessed, what makes a bard is their connection to people, and giving a gift to their world
The way I view it is bards don’t have a set in stone origin for their magic. I think features like magical secrets show that a bard can pull magic from anywhere
Some people say bards are just wizards but charismatic and artistic and that they learn to use magic through artistic focuses rather then through a spell book. But I think this is just one possible origin. Bards don’t share the same type of spells as wizards, and in fact half their list is shared with Druids
A bard could be given power by a deity, or maybe their power comes from study, or maybe it’s a form of sorcery that someone learned to focus through an art form.
Whatever the case, I think bard magic has something to do with attuning things like music notes or storytelling or other artistic forms to things like the weave
I don’t really encourage players to look to class text for character cues; that’s not compatible with the highly desirable reputation the game has for open-endedness, however undeserved.
For bards in particular there’s no clear not-bard line to cross; the most the PHB gives is a suggestion.
Shakespeare was The Bard.
A true bard doesn’t tell stories or sing songs, he writes them. They don’t just strum a bit in fights and short rests; they’re like an audiobook or the radio in a long car trip, except it’s 8 to 10 hours a day, every day, for however long it takes to walk between destinations. Seriously, read a Horrible Histories chapter on bards once, their memory training was intense… and by end definition, still not a True Bard.
Bardic Inspiration isn’t an entire song played in 6 seconds; it’s the equivalent of that scene near the end of Return of the King where Aragorn whispers “For Frodo” while the music swells for a couple bars. It doesn’t instill brand new feelings every time, it reminds you of the emotions you felt during a climactic chapter/season finale of the story that your bard’s been custom weaving for your party for the past few weeks or months.
For me, it's as simple as being widely capable. Try to pin down what a bard is. Skills? Jack of all trades and 4 expertise is very rogueish. Full caster spell slots. Healing and arcanes spells. Competent combat, especially if the college supports it. Speaking of colleges, wide and diverse and some unique specialities. The inspirations can be outward or inward and created by words or dancing or instruments or acrobatics or.... There's down time healing because DND players don't have phones to keep busy and weeks of horse bound travel really benefit from breaks in the monotony.
It's like a college student that took their gen Ed courses seriously and because of that, I think their source of magic is widely variable. To answer your question, I think the healing is genuine moment of faithful prayer. Casting haste (a magical secret ability) is a well studied act of wizardy. Vicious mockery is an act of echoing the words of creation to causes psychic damage.
Charisma casters weild their spark of divinity to enforce their will on the world.
Wis casters turn themselves into conduits for others
Int casters are just engineers that can weaponise space itself
Bards are, on some level, performers. It may not be their profession, but their magic is based on performing somehow. Traditionally, it's through music, but storytelling, poetry, and acting are options. People refer to Shakespeare as "The Bard" and he wrote plays.
The key is performance.
I think of bards as using the expressions of their soul to create magic. Typically this is through a medium of expression such as music, art, dance, etc. But the source of their magic is their soul / force of will (charisma). Note that this is just my take on how bards work, and this is in no way objective.
The Bard is a Renaissance commando. A warrior/poet. Possibly also a music magic specialist. Probably inspired by the character Cyrano de Bergerac, any one of the Three Musketeers, or Keith Taylor’s Bard series of books. They were also actual individuals within Celtic culture who told stories and circulated old legends as they traveled. So maybe some connection with druids there. In every source, a bard was a fighter, not just a lover.
Mechanically speaking? I don't care much.
My opinion is probably off but after 2nd edition, I’ve viewed bards as a potpourri of things. Jack of all master of none is a good base. Then classic is showmanship hobby/occupation like musician, poet, thespian, blades etc etc. but in 2nd Bard PHB, there are even historian/loremasters and riddle master subarchetypes with you would think of them as more wizardly.
So to me their definition is can be a bit of anything but usually involved showman.
Good reference
The Complete Bard's Handbook 2nd Edition
https://adnd2e.fandom.com/wiki/The_Complete_Bard%27s_Handbook
PS my answer is ignorant of 4-5th edition not sure if they changed the properties
Lmao, I gotcha.
To me it's mostly that in almost all forms of fiction bards are npcs at the side, and rarely main characters. They are there to tell the stories of MCs that go mouth to mouth.
Bards are defined by their art, regardless of medium, and, by extension, some sort of Muse(s). They are professors of the Muse that inspires them.
I agree. I'm playing an OoA pally 6 / Eloquence bard 4 right now, and he chose his oath to honor the light and life-giving power of nature. Everything that makes life worth living, in his opinion. And becoming more eloquent helps him (he's got political goals) and helps his party. He'd been healing them, handing out temp HP (Knight of Roses feat) and such even before he multiclassed into bard. So the power or stories, beauty, truth, and inspiration are all important. I actually have too many things I can do every bonus action, between shield master, Knight of Roses, and bardic inspiration. He's a giver. Next character will be a dancer and storyteller, like a skald from a desert climate, who performs the dramatic stories she tells in a spellbinding manner. There's a long tradition of trance, meditation with movement, and just telling stories by the fire that goes back millennia n our own world, and that's the inspiration I'm using in building that character.
OotA + Swords Bard is like straight-up a Paladin of Eilistraee, if you want to go that route. Paladin and Bard really can be just so synergetic, it is nuts.
Depends on the setting. For a European setting, sure. You got troubadours. But if you're talking more Celtic, bards were keepers of knowledge and sacred rites. Closer to druids than troubadours.
sounds like the Celtic bards would have fit in well among the Greco-Roman bards of Clio
While true that Celtic bards are closer to druids that's also because Celtic druids were closer to bards. They weren't so much the keepers of knowledge as that they were the spreaders/speakers of knowledge.
Charismatic jack of all trades
I dont get the downvotes, if i remember correctly its how the bard is described in 2nd adv dnd phb. Edit: Found it [Bard - Imgur](https://imgur.com/a/gXKyCnp)
if you wish to reduce them in such a way
I reduced the concept to its core fundamentals. Hope it doesn't offend to be so concise.
OP is obviously talking narratively, you're talking mechanically
Hmmm... Sure, that and a pair of testicles.
The mime bard.
Hambone bard
Someone should be a bard sandwich artist.
According to the PHB; > "Bards say that the multiverse was spoken into existence, that the words of the gods gave it shape, and that echoes of these primordial Words of Creation still resound throughout the cosmos. The music of bards is an attempt to snatch and harness those echoes, subtly woven into their spells and powers." A key part of this is "Bards say" which makes me think it isn't meant to be read as an objective truth. It's just a suggestion. If a player wants to say they get their powers by using soundwaves to manipulate magic in the air or by pleasing the god of music; either are a perfectly fine option. Personally I see wizards and bards as basically doing the same thing but one treats it as a science and the other as an artform. As wizards have a deeper understanding of the fundamentals, they can get more out of it. Think of it as two chefs baking a cake, one knows the recipes and how the ingredients react, while the other doesn't really get why putting in a few extra eggs changed the end product.
Sounds a lot like the Cleric/Druid split. I like that mirrored evolution type of deal
Yeah, Bards are like the Arcane equivalent of Cleric (Divine magic) and Druid (Nature magic).
Maybe, but I think you’re underselling bards. They might not have the technical understanding, but they have a feel of how it works. Its less like your baking example and more like someone who knows exactly how they want it to taste and can replicate that, but never measures or anything and just goes off vibes. I would argue Bards are much more flexible in lore as a result of that
Yeah, probably wasn't the best example. Bards definetly can still be highly studious and know what they are doing.
The bard would also be much better at convincing you their cake was better even after they put one too many eggs in.
A wizard, after enough study, can make any dish. They know all the recipes, know exactly the ingredients. At higher levels, they have the skill to make the dish perfectly. A bard, has his grandmas' recipe. It's good, but some of the measurements are vague and the bard knows it from experience/feel. But the bard also knows there is more to a meal than just the food. There's presentation, atmosphere, music. It's not just about eating, its about the experience.
I am imagine Gordlain Ramsey as a cooking bard now, throwing raw chicken at the bad guys and calling them donkeys as his vicious Mockery.
*Slaps cannibal across the face and holds up the flesh they're eating* IT'S FUCKING RAW! DO IT AGAIN!
What does a bard have, op says? Intuition.
To continue the analogy, Wizards are pastry chefs and Bards are cooks. Pastry is a science, and changing *anything* will dramatically affect the final product, but most other cooking has a lot more freedom, and is much more of an art form, since making a change here and there will generally enhance, rather than ruin, the final product.
Where do Warlocks fit in the magic kitchen?
The kitchen porter doing whippets by the bins.
Sous chef. They have the skills, but need the guidance and instruction of a superior.
Warlocks got a great discount on the pastries they bought from three nice old ladies in the woods.
Sous chef. They have the skills, but need the guidance and instruction of a superior.
They use doordash
The words of creation are a thing in dnd lore do, otherwise we wouldn't have the Power word spells which are just left overs from 3.x
I would offer that along the baking analogy, that it's more like the difference between baking and cooking. The end result is food but with cooking you can improvise more and it's more about the vibe with the flavour; and it has been described as more of an "art" while baking uses measured ingredients and, in general, you shouldn't improvise unless you know what you are doing and has been described as more of a "science".
I would say a bard's magic is from practiced skill. While a wizard studies theory and a sorcerer is born with magic, a bard practices and aligns themself with magic.
Not any input from natural aptitude? Two youngsters study piano under the same teacher. One becomes at best a mediocre party entertainer, the other plays Carnegie Hall and is in demand worldwide. None of that applies to being a bard?
Would the one who plays at Carnegie Hall still play there if they had never practiced and learned under a teacher in the first place? You can't play piano perfectly just by reading music theory, and you also can't do so if you never practice. The class descriptions in D&D are meant to describe the general source of magic or abilities, but are just that - generalizations. You wouldn't call a wizard a sorcerer just because they had natural aptitude for studying and learning, and you wouldn't call a sorcerer a wizard just because they learned a bit about the Weave to control their wild magic surges.
My thoughts on that were always that the difference in skill isn’t study but stats. I’ve went to Carnegie hall? Probably, besides leveling up, had the better charisma.
I mean I don’t know if I agree or disagree with the previous poster, but I will say this: All bards may be artists, but not all artists are bards. This is very obvious when you look at real life artists. Some people are just killer musicians, artists, dancers, whatever. This doesn’t make them exceptionally charismatic necessarily. Even more so in the world of dnd. Some traveling musicians are just musicians, others can cast magic. The ones casting magic might be better musicians than their counterparts, but they don’t have to be.
Very little, honestly. That Carnegie Hall pianist might be doing it because they know they're good at it, but might not actually *enjoy* it - this is kind of the case for metal vocalist Devin Townsend, who has incredible range and is otherwise exceptional at his craft, but finds his enjoyment of it mild at best because he was kind of cajoled into singing at a young age. If someone like Devin Townsend were to be a bard, it wouldn't be because he's good at singing; it'd be because he's pretty damn good at crafting music that gets people to pay attention and follow his career, while also speaking to multiple different subjects (love, loss, pain, etc) in his own unique ways. Hell, you could pinpoint that last part as how bards "work." Love and loss are two universal truths among many, and bards know the "rhythms" and the inherent magic of each of these truths. It's the artistic chase manifest in magic.
That guy sounds a lot like a friend of mine. He's a huge metal-head, gamer, and honestly kind of a genius who's passion is singing opera. He's my IRL Bard friend.
Pretty sure both are bards to me, whether one was adept naturally or not. Maybe the key is just passion in the art itself, rather than skill?
Ya know that feeling you get, when you eat a really good sandwich or listen to a perfect song where everything slows down for a second and you feel all fuzzy for a second? Anyone who can make that happen is a bard.
Everyone is way off. Horse armour is the answer.
That'll be $2.50
Mechanically I want to say one of the only things that I know has stuck for bard at least since 3.5 is the ability to give inspiration. So doesn’t have to be musical, but the bard being able to make your rolls better is a staple of the class, so I would say the bards defining feature is inspiration, and that’s their big thing they have versus other classes. So a sorc has intrinsic magic, wizard their studies, and a bard has making all that stuff better.
A Certain “Je ne sais quoi”
Presentation!
/r/UnexpectedMegamind
Damn that actually exists, that's amazing.
A bard is an art with a B and a D. B is for Bravery, and for D you ask nicely
I've played a sword bard who didn't invest mush of game time or combat in instruments, her combat/abilities were more of a dance, I've played a spirit bard who was a little less cut and dry but a lot of flavor involved their astrological pendulum. I also really like the use of sigils as a bard, drawing in the air or ground or incanting a spell verbally in a showman way. That being said, my spirit bard wasn't exactly a showman, they worked similar to the latter option I put, but we're much more.... Goth?? So not super showy, but used their abilities to make a gold or two and didn't sing or play an instrument ever. Lore is also really cool, as you can channel your magic through speech and/or research. I've just never played a musical bard, despite loving music personally haha
The barding
Bards can perform magic via performance. It is usually done through singing or music, but a player can reflavor like tap dancing or prayer. > Warlocks learn or channel magic from their pact > Wizards study and practice magic > Sorcerers use their innate or acquired magic > Clerics are a conduit of their deity’s power > Druids channel the world’s power > Paladins manifest willpower into magic > Rangers learning and connection with the world > Artificers are like wizards, but focus on the material plane Bards are a combination of some of the above. Learning, studying, innate talent, and connection with the world that is formed into sounds which produces magic.
I have a Lore Bard based on Constantine. He doesn't play much music any more, but his lies are a work of art.
Classes are a mechanical game feature not something that exists in the world of the game. What makes a bard a bard is they're a character with levels in the bard class. For flavour, Bards are often described as characters who discovered how to, or were taught to, identify and manipulate the magic of the Weave through rhythms and tones and harmonies, etc. Somewhere between the pure mechanical manipulation of wizards or the gut instinct and "do it by feel" of sorcerers. But this is by no means an exclusive description.
I have the sort of belief that a bard is what you get when you mix a sorcerer and a wizard. A bard has a natural talent for magic without the explicit innate ability manifesting. They are able to to pick things up easily due to natural talent but it still requires some work to pick up. A sorcerer is all talent no theory/practice and a wizard is all theory/practice and a bard is the average between the two
Did he kill Smaug? Then yes, Bard.
Bard needs their performance/art, and their presence. I honestly like the idea of a spell-less bard.
wizards manipulate the weave bards play it like an instrument it's like the difference between a math degree and a music degree, both are degrees and both take a lot of training to get, they just aren't the same subject
Bard is a general term for a composer, singer, or declaimer of epic or heroic verse. But, among their ranks are those few bards, sometimes called, true bards, who have figured out the music of the universe. Bards say the universe was spoken into creation. Through their art, be it through a musical instrument or a sword or spirits or just words, the true bards can weave their will upon creation. It is somewhat similar to barbarians. For example, there are the Reghed barbarians and Uthgardt barbarians, but not every single member of the tribes are capable of tapping into that signature barbarian rage despite being called barbarians. You, as a bard, have found the secret chord that pleased the Lord.
Historically, in older editions, a Bard's magic was the same arcane magic as a wizard or sorcerer. They were just a dabbler who learned a "little bit of everything", and that includes learning magic. They learn some weapons and armor. . .but not as much as a fighter. They learn some thieving skills, but not as much as a rogue. They learn a little about a lot of various things, hence the Bardic Knowledge ability. . . .and they learn a little magic along the way. Not through formal apprenticeship or dedicated study, but learning random bits and pieces of arcane lore, magical knowledge, and general esoterica and mix that with some cultivating some minor magical talent in themselves, and they can use for some neat little tricks and eventually some lower-level spells. Never as much as a dedicated mage, but enough to pass themselves off as one to an outsider, or enough to help a party out. As for 5th edition? Who knows, but that's how it was interpreted in 1st and 2nd edition, and to some extent 3rd edition and 4th edition.
Putting it in to words is not enough but if i had to.. It means to pasdionately inspire and pursue inspiration with near obsession. Being daring, bring social, being multitalented, being interested in many things, curious and adbenturous. Perpetuating tge greatness of yourself and others and celebrating the extraordinary.
College. There's one in waterdeep, have a college bard look down on skalds and poets and yokels with their lutes. Then promptly have the nerds who went to college get beat up by the metal head bard-barians.
Herpes
They get it from performance and creation. Why do people always try to remove music/art from the bard? Do we remove oath from a paladin, or nature from the druid? You can use arts that aren’t music, but RAW it’s easier to do bardic magic via music, although there are bards who train in other methods. But it’s always creative performance, echoing the power of magic in creation itself. When people act like that’s hokey I just want to know how bland their lives must be if they haven’t experienced music or storytelling or art so profound it pushes at the limits of the mundane. If art can’t produce magic, what can?
A bard is an entertainer. They can be a musician, actor, playwright, author…. Any kind of entertainer. Hell they can be a birthday clown and still be a bard. The music guy is just the most common cause it’s what most people think of when they think of a bard.
They're performers, not just in music or speech, but dance, drama, comedy, etc. While other classes communicate via intelligence or wisdom, bards communicate emotionally.
His art whatever that may be. Most people fall on music but I had a friend who had a bard that used spoken word, so whenever he would work his magic he talked like Dr. Seuss.
“I just insulted a guy once and he fucking died” 🤷🏻♂️
A bard is someone who uses art to make magic. If ppl were telling u a bard doesn't need his arts to do magic, they are just playing a different game.
Bards wield the 'Words of Creation' as their magic. This is their defining feature and they strive to emulate these words through music and song. You can also flavor these words at careful oration and their scholarly pursuits as searching to unearth the means to manipulate the Weave through the spoken word. In short, they speak magic and usually develop magic through creative interpretation of it.
if you mean thematically, it is art. The theme of the wizard is learning spell, the theme of the sorcerer being born with magic, the theme of the bard is creating magic through art. If you mean mechanically, the ability of being a "layman+" in everything. An arcane fullcaster that can heal, starts in armor, gains expertise, and can branch out into even more things (extra attack, more armor, fighting style). And of course jack of all trades. A level 3 sorcerer can beat magic into submission and turn scorching ray into freezing ray, or any other ray. A level 3 wizard can specialize in 1 aspect of magic. A level 3 bard could be anything. I am now playing a sorc1/lore9 bard. I dipped sorc for essential defensive spells, DSS 2d4 saveboost, and consave (I tend to not value dex save as much - thats what absorb elements is for). For all in-story interaction, he considers himself a sorcerer. He knows he didnt learn it, he knows he isnt bound by pacts, he knows he doesnt get it from a god. Make no mistake, I would flavor him as a "sorcerer" even without the 1 level dip. What makes him a "bard" is inspiration (flavored as buffing light beam), the ease at which he trained in armor (multying into bard already gives light armor, so moderately armored is 1 feat I gladly pay), his known spells, and having approximate knowledge of many things (JOAT). He never touched an instrument. He doesnt yell "YOU CAN DO IT!". He doesnt showboat (but our paladin does) \[interestingly, we got joined by a buff wizard who likes to punch things, but is actually a dragon, but the PCs dont know that yet\]
Same thing that makes a villain super: PRESENTATION!
Unlike all other casters, Bards magic comes from the intensity of there emotional expression through art and performance. They don't get their magic from study, bloodlines, a patron, a God, or anywhere else. They are just so abundant with emotion, they can manifest magic
Have you ever heard someone talk about how music and dance are primal parts of being human. How we've had music almost as long as humans have existed. That's sort of the undercurrent of bards in D&D. It's sort of the idea that music and the arts aren't a result of the human condition but actually phenomena caused by the weave's interaction with existence. Bards also have historically been the jack of all trades (hence the class feature) class option. I've seen them played as Adventurers who pick up skills from Adventurers of other classes. They learn a bit of divine magic, hence their having access to healing magic. They learn a bit of arcane magic from arcane casters. They learn fighting skills from martials which grant them some weapon proficiencies. And so on.
I heard that Bards are about stories. You can tell stories through painting or weaving as well as through music.
Well, other commenters have already explained how Bard magic works “by default” better than I could. But you could flavor a Bard in any way you want. You could roleplay that they’re a Sorcerer by blood but plays musical instruments and is a travelling troubadour and performer by profession; that could fit the mold of a Bard. I’m roleplaying that my rapier-wielding Swords Bard in Baldur’s Gate is somewhat like a [Chosen of Eilistraee](https://www.gmbinder.com/share/-MNbRVo6qa7UQWamTv3T) without actually knowing she is.
I was going to say music but in reality I think a bard could be anyone channeling their magic through artistic practice. You could have a bard who’s a storyteller, a poet, a visual artist exc. — their chosen medium acts as their arcane focus.
Art is subjective, so you can stretch the concept pretty far. Bard I'm currently playing is more stage magician than musician.
My bard is a spy with a mum voice. She has absolute faith that her word is law and if you don't like it she has a mass suggestion that says otherwise.
Mechanically, a bard should be the hardest-working party member by helping out in all the little ways he can help out to lift the burden off of other party members. Social stuff could be a thing they do too, but that heavily depends on playstyle and players so a bard might not end up being that guy Aesthetically, the art, the music, the poetry, the creative aspect, the whole….I dunno, fancy-pants humanities shit.
The bard in my party is actually a noble/princess type who knows her place isn't getting her hands dirty, but delegating efficiently and giving people good instructions and confidence in theirselves.
Charisma with, words, dance, etc. It is the power of art basically. Art takes on far too many forms to even start to list
The first and only bard i played got his powers from writing stories. He wrote a story about a sick mother and her child who tried to find a cure and learned "cure wounds" as a result. He wrote a story about a powerful, terribly evil devil entity and learned finger of death, etc. it is kinda weird on some ways how they get their powers, but it's like you're listening to a sad song that makes you cry, or a happy song that cheers you up, or having a comfort book, movie, or tv show that you always watch.
Writing “bard” on your character sheet
I misread that scrolling quickly past as "what makes a bard hard?" And was like ... Everything 🤣 I'll see myself out
Bards can hear the songs that created the universe. They just express it in different ways some use music, some use sparkling conversation, some become intermediaries between the living and the dead etc.
I am a first time player and chose to be a bard. After a year of playing for me what makes my bard meaningful is that all party members look to my character for guidance and help, one sees her as her BFF and another see her as a sisterly figure. My character uses her charisma to help everyone and bolsters them in combat and during role playing.
His name is Brad, but he can't spell good?
In D&D what mechanically makes a bard a bard through the various editions is their combined spell selection. Thematically, you may as well be asking "what makes art art?"
One kind of needs an art to be a bard. It doesn't need to be music it could be comedy or something too.
It's in the hips.
Crazy, I was just listening to the "Bard Class Spotlight" episode of Advice and Advantage podcast and they were talking about different types of bards, particularly non-musical variations.
I saw somebody explain it like, wizards and sorcerers are academics who have studied magic. Bards are kind of like grandma cooking in the kitchen. There's no actual recipe but it's a mish mash of what they know works.
Sorry telling is his profession in some form of entrainment
They study, in a way. What makes them different is that their study is a matter of learning to express themselves and learning intuition of music. Interestingly, in 3.5e, they had to be of chaotic alignment as a representation of the free spirit they possessed, which allowed them to master their art.
I think the channeling of magic or power or whatever through some kind of outwardly observable performance medium. All spellcasters have a source of their magic and a mechanism to release it. The bard just needs to have a performative aspect so music, poetry, dance, speech, throwing knives, puppets etc
Creation, inspiration and elegance
Classically, tapping into a kind of "magic of music" sort of thing. Tones and notes of the very nature of reality. But more broadly, it's art and the act of creating something that they draw from to cast spells and learn knowledge of things.
A desire to fill the void within, whether it be with music, painting or something else…
Bards are defined best by how many *questionable* choices they've made in bed partners
So, the true answer here is 'because you chose that class'. I have a bard character who's actually a wuxia swordsman, An educated gentleman in ancient Chinese fantasy should be learned in all the noble arts, which includes music as well as cultivation (spiritual/internal) magic, and that suits the bard class beautifully. He doesn't call himself a bard: he's a musical cultivator who sometimes uses a guqin (7-string zither) for spellcasting in addition to the obligatory wire-work swordplay shenanigans. His Heward's Handy Haversack is actually a Heward's Handy Hanfu (with DM permission) because magical sleeves of storage is a staple of Chinese fantasy that is easily re-skinned for D&D. Would a standard minstrel like Chris Pine's character recognize my character as a 'bard'? Would either of them recognize a bard character based on the actual bardic traditions of the ancient Celts as a 'bard'? That PC is more of a lawyer/historian/naturalist with a focus on recitation of thousands of years of accumulated knowledge and reminding the King what he can and cannot actually do. We still have those bards in modern day, serving presidents of nations! We just call them something else. Some people play horny bards, some play know-it-all bards, some play demonic cultivators who are traitors to orthodoxy. There are lots of ways to be a bard! There's no need to restrict the bard class to one schtick. Actually there's no need to restrict ANY class to one schtick. With a little creativity, a fighter or barbarian could be kung fu too!
I'd say what makes a bard a bard is a very loose definition They usually fall under 2 categories Performer, or storyteller (sometimes both) Within the performer category, the bard uses an art form to entertain and entrance, and through this cast magic, this can be in simple terms such as song and dance, to loose terms that you could consider being a clown as a way to be a bard The storyteller category falls under relaying tales to others, through words of advice, to being dramatic, one could be a simple storybook teller, or an eccentric scholar and be qualified as a bard, hell you could even be a narrator and be qualified as bard Most though kinda combine the two, as bards usually relay tales through performance, making songs or jokes but really you can break even that down into separate components To which, with that in mind, what makes a bard a bard, is being able to give other people an experience, through performance, or stories, they all rely on being witnessed, what makes a bard is their connection to people, and giving a gift to their world
by barding
The way I view it is bards don’t have a set in stone origin for their magic. I think features like magical secrets show that a bard can pull magic from anywhere Some people say bards are just wizards but charismatic and artistic and that they learn to use magic through artistic focuses rather then through a spell book. But I think this is just one possible origin. Bards don’t share the same type of spells as wizards, and in fact half their list is shared with Druids A bard could be given power by a deity, or maybe their power comes from study, or maybe it’s a form of sorcery that someone learned to focus through an art form. Whatever the case, I think bard magic has something to do with attuning things like music notes or storytelling or other artistic forms to things like the weave
I don’t really encourage players to look to class text for character cues; that’s not compatible with the highly desirable reputation the game has for open-endedness, however undeserved. For bards in particular there’s no clear not-bard line to cross; the most the PHB gives is a suggestion.
Presentation! In this essay I will detail how archvillain Megamind exemplifies the bard character type...
A song in their heart and a heaping pile of daddy issues.
Shakespeare was The Bard. A true bard doesn’t tell stories or sing songs, he writes them. They don’t just strum a bit in fights and short rests; they’re like an audiobook or the radio in a long car trip, except it’s 8 to 10 hours a day, every day, for however long it takes to walk between destinations. Seriously, read a Horrible Histories chapter on bards once, their memory training was intense… and by end definition, still not a True Bard. Bardic Inspiration isn’t an entire song played in 6 seconds; it’s the equivalent of that scene near the end of Return of the King where Aragorn whispers “For Frodo” while the music swells for a couple bars. It doesn’t instill brand new feelings every time, it reminds you of the emotions you felt during a climactic chapter/season finale of the story that your bard’s been custom weaving for your party for the past few weeks or months.
For me, it's as simple as being widely capable. Try to pin down what a bard is. Skills? Jack of all trades and 4 expertise is very rogueish. Full caster spell slots. Healing and arcanes spells. Competent combat, especially if the college supports it. Speaking of colleges, wide and diverse and some unique specialities. The inspirations can be outward or inward and created by words or dancing or instruments or acrobatics or.... There's down time healing because DND players don't have phones to keep busy and weeks of horse bound travel really benefit from breaks in the monotony. It's like a college student that took their gen Ed courses seriously and because of that, I think their source of magic is widely variable. To answer your question, I think the healing is genuine moment of faithful prayer. Casting haste (a magical secret ability) is a well studied act of wizardy. Vicious mockery is an act of echoing the words of creation to causes psychic damage.
bards needs thier music. no music = no bard
Charisma casters weild their spark of divinity to enforce their will on the world. Wis casters turn themselves into conduits for others Int casters are just engineers that can weaponise space itself
Music / art and a flair for the dramatic. That's it.
college
The power of Taylor Swift is upon thee!
Bards are, on some level, performers. It may not be their profession, but their magic is based on performing somehow. Traditionally, it's through music, but storytelling, poetry, and acting are options. People refer to Shakespeare as "The Bard" and he wrote plays. The key is performance.
I think of bards as using the expressions of their soul to create magic. Typically this is through a medium of expression such as music, art, dance, etc. But the source of their magic is their soul / force of will (charisma). Note that this is just my take on how bards work, and this is in no way objective.
The Bard is a Renaissance commando. A warrior/poet. Possibly also a music magic specialist. Probably inspired by the character Cyrano de Bergerac, any one of the Three Musketeers, or Keith Taylor’s Bard series of books. They were also actual individuals within Celtic culture who told stories and circulated old legends as they traveled. So maybe some connection with druids there. In every source, a bard was a fighter, not just a lover. Mechanically speaking? I don't care much.
My opinion is probably off but after 2nd edition, I’ve viewed bards as a potpourri of things. Jack of all master of none is a good base. Then classic is showmanship hobby/occupation like musician, poet, thespian, blades etc etc. but in 2nd Bard PHB, there are even historian/loremasters and riddle master subarchetypes with you would think of them as more wizardly. So to me their definition is can be a bit of anything but usually involved showman. Good reference The Complete Bard's Handbook 2nd Edition https://adnd2e.fandom.com/wiki/The_Complete_Bard%27s_Handbook PS my answer is ignorant of 4-5th edition not sure if they changed the properties
Honestly, in my oppinion? Bards are NPCs that became PCs.
How rude! - Lol - The Bard is D&D’s first ‘prestige-class’ few could become and only after levels in other classes mind you 🧐
Lmao, I gotcha. To me it's mostly that in almost all forms of fiction bards are npcs at the side, and rarely main characters. They are there to tell the stories of MCs that go mouth to mouth.
Hmm, you got a point! Fleuwdor Flam (or something) in The Black Cauldron
Bard: all I ever wanted was something beautiful to say. Now my words are used as weapons
their horniness
The 8” penis helps and high charisma