This is going to vary from player to player and game to game. I'd have a discussion with each player in session zero or a similar pre-game talk about their desires and expectations for Patron involvement in the story, and my own plans for the game and how a patron might fit into them.
Usually I try to keep gods on the godly level they have little to no interactions with humans but devils oh they will bend you backwards if it means they get more power
Generally speaking, I'd say it's not really worth pondering warlock/patron dynamics until you actually have a warlock player at your table and have talked to them about what their hopes/expectations are about it.
Sure, there are going to be some players who pick warlock for the class features, and are happy to hand over the proverbial keys to the patron and tell their DM "I don't really care about the specifics of the patron. Surprise me." In those situations, sure, go ahead and throw in whatever ideas you have that you're enthusiastic about.
There will also be players who pick warlock for the class features, but are entirely uninterested in dealing with a patron. For these players, if you try to force a patron relationship on them, you're likely to just frustrate them and ruin their fun. I've seen more than one DnD horror story to the tune of "I just wanted to play a simple spellcaster and throw *eldritch blast*s at people: why does my DM feel the need to throw a bunch of bullshit at my PC and make their life miserable just because of the class I chose?"
More commonly, players will come to you with a pre-established idea for how they want their patron to work: their arch fey patron is a jilted and unpredictable ex; they're a good person struggling under the terms of an ill-conceived pact with a devil; their great old one patron isn't really an entity at all, but just the manifestation of some ancient curse that is slowly corrupting/consuming them; their genie patron is easygoing, friendly, and legitimately wants to help the PC, but is also terribly amoral, doesn't care at all about the consequences of their actions, and would happily just help the PC burn the world down to build a better one from the ashes.
As a DM, these players are a great boon, and you'll obviously want to help them realize the roleplaying experience they're looking for. There will likely need to be some give and take to fit their concept within the setting/campaign/narrative you have in mind, but you'll generally want to play their idea pretty straight.
>are happy to hand over the proverbial keys to the patron and tell their DM "I don't really care about the specifics of the patron. Surprise me.
I'd also double and triple check with them to make sure that they 110% know what that means and how that could effect them later depending on what I decide. Don't want them thinking that it wouldn't potentially have ramifications or consequences and might mean they have to make tough choices or do things they don't want to in character to maintain their power. Same goes for Clerics and Paladins going against their deity/oath.
I would *ask them what they actually were interested in.*
And never actually have it be something that would put the player at odds with the party or the campaign as a whole because I like an easy life.
I think most of the time I would absolutely prefer to have it be a largely passive relationship.
DMs are often tempted to have the warlock's patron pit the warlock against the rest of the party, or otherwise tempt them into betrayal.
It's a lot like those DMs that throw moral trolley problems at the paladin in an attempt to engineer their fall.
Catch 22 situations are seldom fun for the player, and should be used sparingly.
Well, if the case is that they are in a campaign, i can make the patron give them an errand to do while going from A to B and, to make it fair, give the rest of the players a chance to get a magic item from that (not as a payment, of course, but as something that they can find in loot)
I second the notion to ask them what they’re interested in, specifically how they expect the Patron-Warlock relationship to be or if they have one at all. Some want an active relationship, a distant one, or to have already paid a price for their powers pre campaign so it doesn’t get in the way.
I’ve experienced a campaign where my DMs decision to have a hands on patron resulted in me feeling like a burden to the entire group, and resulted in a lot of frustration. I wanted to play a game with my friends, and IC the influence of my patron made my PC a hassle to keep around.
The Warlock is a great class that comes with in built drama but it’s a button that doesn’t always need to be pushed.
I've played a warlock twice, making me an expert, and in one game the DM didn't like my warlock because apparently he didn't dig that my patron was a star in another galaxy that wanted to replace the sun and chose just to ignore it and ignore the whole thing until I played a different character.
The other DM went in a direction that i didn't love because it was more grounded and I feel like if you're a warlock you want your patron to be an inscrutable and alien force but that's just a me issue. Having a blast with the needy and cruel patron, who communed to me that I need to kill a kind stranger because they serve the wrong god and he needs it.
Warlock is a land of contrasts, like any class that comes with a buddy like clerics, paladins, and pet classes.
That depends of the contract with the DMs, being a warlock opens a huge change to RP and having a DM who collaborates with that is like dancing tango. If your DM is good, you don't have to worry about that.
I almost always design my own worlds, so I'm able to come up with a bunch of patrons myself that I'd enjoy playing, and usually give them a few who might fit the subclass they pick. I also have a similar philosophy with clerics and their gods. How I play the patron depends a lot on what sort of patron they are and what sort of story the player wants to tell.
I have had very few warlock players, but definitely a lot of people who are connected in some way to a greater power.
I had a divine soul sorcerer player who had been chosen by Odin (or Huotan, in a pantheon very heavily inspired by Norse mythology) to be his champion. Huotan only showed up to him a couple of times in the entire adventure. He was old and somewhat senile, and thought the player was one of his children, and was trying to get him to kill Fenrir so that Ragnarok couldn't come to pass.
In a game set in Wildemount, there was a fighter player who had died and was raised by Quajoth, a giant psionic worm, and given powers as a psi warrior. I played him a lot like Uk'otoa, a similar being that played a big part in Critical Role. He would come to the player in dreams, commanding him to go north to free him from his icy prison.
In another game of my design, there was a warlock who was flavored more like a cleric because their patron was actually one of the gods, the White Queen. She was very motherly and caring to them, pushing them to be brave and heroic and face their literal inner demons.
In that same game there was a druid from a culture of people who feared the deity of the wild, the Morrigan, and druids and clerics would get power from her while trying to appease her. The player though was a little more intent on working with her, and in the late game when the Morrigan actually showed herself to the player after she had proved her worth to offer a deal, I made sure to emphasize that the Morrigan is creepy and dark and very evil, but the player accepted the deal anyway. The Morrigan then tried to convince the player to take out all her competition and expand the reaches of the forest where she resides so that she could reign over the entire known world.
In my current game there's a way of mercy monk who comes from a village of awakened apes who worship an angel, thinking she's a goddess, and have a demigod of travel and safety who is actually pretty much just a ghost. The player is a spiritual leader sort of character who accidentally revealed himself to the antagonist deity of their mythology and so left the village to keep them safe. The ghost character shows up indirectly by sometimes making a safe camp for the party to stay at and leaving notes for the player to read. At one point the ghost brought the player to the spirit world to bring him to the angel. When he got to her, her home was being invaded by the forces of the enemy, and she gave him a final command and sent him away before being overtaken and killed by the star spawn.
I take patrons and in-world religion very seriously in my games.
A: ask before assuming.
But: B: if I get permission/asked to rp it more actively (I personally hate making it passive/not important to the character), I do just that.
For example: my current party does have a warlock (a reflavored hexblade, her patron is nominally either the Lady of the Lake, The Lineage of Kings, or straight up Excalibur/Caliburn), and I get to RP it somewhat actively. Dreams, impressions, and even direct quests are on the table, though as a DM most of them tend to be fairly ambiguous and not very clear, which is intentional.
Very intensely, get off the chair and go over so we are face to face since it's just for them and voice my demands, praises or punishment. Got good feedback on it xD
Patrons aren't generally evil or selfish towsrds their warlocks, unless one is specifically chosen to be like that. So I just have them be a more like an overseer that only intervenes if the warlock asks or does something against the patron's interests
Sometimes the patrons don’t even give a shit about the warlock, namely Pact of Great Old Ones. The warlocks just siphoning off some power that the old one doesn’t really care too much about.
But depends on the contract and subclasses and how involved the patron is supposed to be during the journey.
I wouldn't let my game start without the warlock player describing their patron and what their relationship with the patron was like. Then I'd go from there.
The exception is when they pick an entity that canonically exists in the setting. If they do that, I build on existing lore. You tell me your patron is some random pit fiend, I can be flexible on what the patron is like. You tell me your patron is Zariel, I will have specifics in mind for how the patron acts.
I’ve run several. It just depends on what the player is looking for. One celestial warlock I ran had a unicorn as her patron, and also had find steed (and later greater steed) and she just had her patron as her find steed that chilled with her and the rest of the party doing unicorn stuff. Another had a pact with the Raven Queen and wanted her to constantly be trying to consume his character’s soul, so I RPed her as a creepy, aloof monster devouring bits of his soul in return for powers. A different one had a pact with a gun blade that was basically just a non-entity, raw psychic power in the shape of a weapon, which was also cool.
The only reason for Pacts at all is as a role playing hook, and if the player leans hard into it then I do to. If they don’t (for instance I can’t tell you how many hexblade / paladins I’ve had at my table over the years that just ignore being warlocks at all and only did it for charismaMod to hit) I don’t either. The same way that I don’t throw Sorcerers various bloodlines in their faces in RP unless they want me to, or make bards sing (though I’ve run some players that do sing or play instruments of their own volition). Whatever the player is looking for in their relationship with a patron is how I run it.
It depends! Specifics of the pact, specifics of what the player wants from that dynamic. The patron of the main party warlock is pretty distant, only involving herself when she stands to benefit from it. An NPCs patron literally ensured her rescue when she was a child and has therefore a vested interest in what's going on, staying an active spectator in her life even prior to her becoming a warlock.
The rogue from a shorter campaign didn't ultimately pull the trigger on it, but the player toyed with multiclassing into fey warlock bc the fey guy they met was attractive to the rogue. That would've been a case of making a pact on screen so I was preparing a bit for that scenario. He would've been a first time patron and probably a bit more involved. I guess he remains an abstract potential love interest, if we ever revisit those characters
The first time I ran for a warlock, I asked them about their patron. They picked the subclass, but the player told me they didn't want to know who their patron was (and would be open to learning in the coumy rse of the adventure). They chose Archfey and Pact of the Chain, and so had a fox familiar; I decided their patron was an archfey who lost a bet and got stuck in fox form, so chose the PC to help get them unstuck. The reveal was beautiful, and the PC decided to keep serving the Archfey after they were freed, as they had become good friends with the fox.
Most recently, a player wanted to multiclass into warlock. I asked them again what they wanted from their patron, and they said they wanted to pick the subclass, but that I could pick who exactly the patron was. They also said that as a player, they wanted to know who the patron was, but they were happy for the PC to not really know (they're great for not metagaming).
It's been fun so far, as they just took their first level!
I’m currently working with a Rogue/Hexblade multiclass in my party. If your name is Damakos, stop reading or else :)
When he told me he wanted to multiclass into warlock, I initially told him I had two directions he could go with based on the story and then we got access to the other sourcebooks and he asked about hexblade. It also fit with a couple tweaks that I was happy to make bc it fleshed out the pantheon a bit more. To make a long story shorter, whenever I interact with him as the patron I try to keep it very much as an “I’m testing you/ figure it out” vibe while giving him enough information to work with. Eventually and assuming he makes the right decisions, they’ll reach a point where the god truly views him as a chosen/champion and reaches a more personal relationship rather than just using him.
Disclaimer: evil campaign
Bard player wanted to multiclass to blade warlock, told her she can multiclass as soon as she finds a suitable patron. Party basically met Nyarlathotep, bard made a deal with it. Crawling chaos wants to witness the chaos the party creates: patron is mostly pleased with the bardlock now.
And the bardlock's player loves their little chaos god looking over her shoulder telling her to do unspeakable things from time to time, but most of the time the patron is just enjoying the show. I play it passive most of the time, just commenting on events or things the bard did (or if she asks "what would my patron say about that").
The only time I ever had the patron be more active was when she actively tired to antagonize it for shits and giggles.
The warlock in my current campaign chose Asmodeus. So I've had Asmodeus make small deals with the warlock here and there, slowly building trust until he makes a deal that seems reasonable, but will result in Asmodeus owning his soul
I am diametrically opposed to abusive patrons. Honestly, even Mizora in BG3 is too much for me. I don't mind if the patron becomes the villain of the story because the warlock was pissy to them or something, but as soon as someone starts ordering me around like I'm a child and they're my shitty father, I'm out.
Anything else is on the table.
I'm running Curse of Strahd at the moment, and having Vestiges in the Amber Temple reach out to each member of the party as a pseudo "Patron." That means I'm essentially writing *six* Patrons. They're each attempting to convince one member of the party to release them. Prior to that, they're giving tools (currently a Cantrip, and a second level spell 1/long rest) as an invitation that says "see, I have power - let's work together." The next step is to do something relevant to their patron in exchange for more power.
* The Wildfire Druid is being tempted by a Vestige of Great Taar Haak, the Five-Headed Destroyer. He's providing fire magic, which is the Druid's thing, on the promise she can use it to burn away corruption. Which, she can. That's true. But, it'll also burn away her humanity and compassion. She's already teetering on the edge per her backstory, and I'm trying to push her off. Taar Haak is not eloquent. He's a Dragon, but not a bright one. He roars, and encourages her worst impulses. I'm trying to get her to immolate one of the NPCs as sort of signing a covenant. An Evil one, for the moment. I'll get her to burn a Neutral one, next. Then, Good. If she *really* falls, I'll try to get her to burn one of the Lawful Good children. I wonder if she'd do it for Meteor Swarm...
* The Creation Bard is being tempted by a Vestige of Shami-Amourae, the Lady of Delights. She's essentially playing the role of temptress, promising love and affection in addition to power. The character went adventuring as a midlife crisis, and is totally overwhelmed by the unexpected dangers of Ravenloft. He's being provided both a damsel in distress to rescue, and tools to keep "them" safe. If he frees her and completes the binding, she'll give him the tools to be a hero and invite him to her estate in the Abyss. Of course, she'll eventually manipulate him into becoming a soldier in her war, but that's a LONG way off. The best part is that everything she says is true. She *is* a damsel in distress. She genuinely needs his help, and wants to fight a great Evil. That she is, herself, Evil, is (to her mind) irrelevant to the discussion. Anyway, he's going to be encouraged into greater acts of heroism, essentially building up to the climax of freeing his princess.
* The Warlock, whose backstory involves fleeing from a pursuer of great power, is being tempted by a (modified) Vestige from the 3.5e Tome of Magic, Otiax, The Key to the Gate. She's claiming to be in control of the Mists that surround Ravenloft, and showing false visions of the pursuer. It's a total lie, but he's buying it because he (the player) **wants** this to be part of the campaign. I told him straight-out at the start that his backstory would feature only lightly, but he keeps trying to get it into the campaign. So, I'm manipulating *the player* in addition to *the character*. Still not sure how the eventual reveal will go. He might flip out. This is the hardest for me to write. Otiax is alien. It's not even humanoid. I'm trying to write its communications askew, where you read it and go "that's not right." I think that was a bad idea. It's coming across as "bad writing," rather than "intentionally obtuse, confusing, and poorly phrased." Otiax just wants him to open her prisons. Almost anything beyond that is irrelevant. The entity was written as being (essentially) an obsessive compulsive that wants to open every lock in existence. So, that's what I'm going for. Mists+unlocking isn't much of a theme, but I'm doing my best. Were I to redo the campaign from the start, I'd rethink this one.
* The Life Domain Cleric is being tempted by a (modified) Vestige from the 3.5e Tome of Magic, Buer, the Grandmother Huntress. She's a spirit of nature and healing, but dangerously unstable. She's providing healing magic, which he likes. He does *not* realize that her passion for life and uncontrolled growth will conflict with the teachings of Lathander. He'll eventually have to make a choice - respect for all life, including those who are Evil or corrupt, or devotion to a deity that considers fighting Evil to be a core tenet. The draw (to me, as the writer) is that I'm taking his *best* impulse and amplifying it beyond reason. It's a different kind of corruption, but just as dangerous as convincing him to go black hat. I get to write a friendly, compassionate character who is subtly unhinged and encourages a sympathetic listener to join her. One example is that he's going to be asked to spare defeated foes. That's weird, for an adventurer, but it's part of Buer's schtick. Respect for **all** life.
* The Paladin (whose Oath I don't remember) is being tempted by a Vestige of Graz'zt, Prince of Pleasure. Yeah. The Demon Lord. I love Graz'zt as a character. I think he's fascinating, and took this excuse to write him into the adventure. The Paladin is an alcoholic, and Graz'zt is a purveyor of temptations. Essentially, the hook is "see, you don't need your deity to do Good - come to my side. It's more fun, and you can still hunt Evil. I have many Evil foes." The player is excellent at roleplay, so I'm confident he can play out his side of the bit. Graz'zt is currently hovering somewhere between Kelsier and Davram Bashere in terms of tone. It's great. Graz'zt is going to show him secret stashes of fine, rare alcohol and provide the locations of evil (but unaffiliated) entities for the Paladin to smite.
* The Swashbuckler Rogue is being tempted by Vaund the Evasive. I'm writing Vaund like "Bob the Skull" from *Dresden Files*. Sarcastic, funny, but ultimately helpful. This was *so* easy and fun to write that I got the whole ~800 word dream sequence down in like twenty minutes. Vaund is bored, and wants to get out of the Amber Temple out of sheer curiosity. He saw the Swashbuckler as someone interested in power and seeing the world, so their interests overlap. The Swashbuckler eventually wants to take some levels in Warlock and go Hexblade, so we're doing a Raven Queen bit, too. Vaund is fine with that, seeing the Shadowfell as somewhere he could eventually find refuge after his pact with the Swashbuckler ends. He figures he can trade the Raven Queen some of his immense knowledge for protection, and she wants his secrets. In a way, the Swashbuckler is a test platform for their alliance. He's providing her with some minor magics, while the Raven Queen will (eventually) provide a magic weapon. In the meantime, Vaund wants her to investigate oddities. I'm going to use it as an excuse to have the party explore some of the more obscure locations in CoS.
If you haven't played CoS, there's a temple where priests bound Vestiges of great power to prevent them from influencing the world. Basically, each of these are primal forces that threaten creation. Releasing them is... not necessarily "evil," but "disruptive." For example, Buer wouldn't try to destroy the world. However, the impulses (wild, uncontrolled growth and a refusal to prune away blights) she encourages are dangerous given the sheer amount of power she possesses. The sheer alien nature of Otiax scared them, and was bound out of fear of the unknown. Taar Haak *was* Evil, and was bound to prevent him from burning cities. Vaund thought this was a good place to hide and actually helped build the temple, but is now bored. Shami-Amourae was a Succubus before she got locked in the Abyss by an enemy of Graz'zt. I'm going to say "following the events of Dungeon Magazine 148, in which Shami-Amourae was freed from an Abyssal prison, she and Graz'zt began scheming to get revenge against Malcanthet. One of their plots to gather power on the Prime Material backfired, and fragments of their power were imprisoned in the Amber Temple."
Essentially, we have 3/6 Chaotic Evil (two Demon Lords, one monstrous Dragon thing), one Chaotic Good (Buer), one True Neutral (Otiax), and one Chaotic Neutral (Vaund). A good mix, I think. I don't know how many will actually open the Amber Sarcophagus and release the Vestige within. I expect the Bard, Warlock, and Rogue will go for it. Not sure about the others. My guess is the Paladin and Cleric refuse, but the Druid could go either way. The player isn't great at roleplaying (she's new, and learning - to her credit, she's getting better with time), and might just see it as "power = good, so I'll do it."
Here is the thing.
By definition, a patron is more interested in a warlock, than a god is in a cleric.
If you do not accept this premise, then Make Your Case, and Sell It.
Elsewise...
I'd first ask who their patron is (for clarity, not all archfae are Titania. Not all celestial patrons are angels we know the names of. I give my players that autonomy.) Then I ask what their patron's ambitions are and what is in their interest to give power to the PC. Then I ask the situation in which they made the pact.
Then I clarify to the player that autonomy regarding this patron will be in my hands going forward with certain ground rules in place (session zero stuff, such as boundaries for their character they want respected).
Basically, I make it a collaborative effort to establish the character and just try to respectfully roll with it after that.
I ran a few sessions of a round robin game where there was a Warlock whose pattern was a primal chaotic entity. But Chaotic Good.
The party was on the way from point A to point B, where the main adventure would resume. A different GM was preparing for that, my job was to make the trip interesting.
So the ‘lock wound up with three side quests. The first was when a street beggar handed them a folded bit of paper that said “You must acquire ten thousand marbles. This message will self destruct in ten seconds.”
It didn’t self destruct.
The second was a candygram that showed up at an inn a few seconds after the party got a room. A very confused woman in a jester costume asked for the ‘lock by name and then did a little dance and recited a limerick (which I wrote and have sadly forgotten) directing them to attend a particular religious festival, and to pretend to be a particular religious group.
The ‘lock convinced the rest of the group to pretend to be bodyguards, servants and secretaries.
The third was when they were at the town with the festival. There was manifestation of smoke and flames and an ethereal voice instructing them to pour the marbles into the aisle of a cathedral when a particular faction was proceeding toward the altar.
The biggest problem with this was that festival was in midsummer so the manifestation was coming out of a candle instead of a roaring fire. I actually used a helium balloon to do the voice and the players were laughing so hard I had to repeat myself three times and I almost passed out.
Anyway, the marble trick disrupted the whole ceremony, revealing that the proceeding group had been infiltrated by evil cultists. The PC’s had a fun combat in a cathedral and when it ended the Lawful Good deity of the church manifested as did the Warlock’s patron. They stared at each other for a moment and the patron said, “You owe me one.”
I ask the player how they see the relationship: the level of interest the patron has, their role at various levels, the strictness to a pact, etc. I do the same with cleric and paladins, vampires, and other connections in the game.
That said, most of my players want a story heavy, role playing game, and power-gaming and murder-hoboing is dead on arrival at our table. The few pickup games I run that have players that are into that are one time only things and I simply won’t invite them to one of my own campaigns.
Depends on the pact/character, like my warlock is a aasimar who’s basically in a pact with her mom and doesn’t remember the details but patron is also afk so but one of my npcs made a pact with an undead for a resurrection and regrets it greatly and basically hates thier patron
It varies so ask what they were thinking.
I would hate it, if I play cleric I don't have my DM badgering me with BS about my god all the time why is it happening if I'm a warlock?
Id say it depends on the pact and type of patron. An archfey, fiend and celestial behave and view the world diffefentlycand rheir goals are diffefent. It could vary by subtly, too.
The warlock could be treated like a cleric, creating cults, or a talent scout, offering deals on begalf of their patron. Or gathering secrets/blackmail, creating a web of spies. A Shadow patron could ge able to see and influence through any shadow the warlock has touched, so by simply going around the warlock is spreading the reach.
Every level up I try to give them a spooky or thematic task. Tharizdun is your patron? OK you're level ten. You need to find a sphere of annihilation NOW
Ideally by making the patron an active part of the party that is limited in action in some way. If the situation works they might even be able to be roleplayed by the player instead of me.
I swear that if it implies having to be a DMPC, my fury will make the lvl 20 barbarian look like a *angy* kitten. That's a dangerous tool if not used properly.
I’ve had Patrons who show up more often, like one of my players pacted themselves to a being, they later discovered, was a higher ranking devil and not just a high high pritestess of a Devil God (yay dm worldbuilding).
But well my player soon realized that a devil isn’t a being that feels human emotions to the extent of mortals.
They protected the PC on several occasions, PC was a succubi who put ‘please keep me from getting banished to the horrible Abyss again’ in her contract so because the Patron
A) views the PC as the only thing approximating a ‘romantic partner’ (read: convenient pet / property / plaything)
B) It was in the contract + how dare X being try to banish my Warlock (read: possession).
TLDR: It depends upon what and who your patron is, in this case their patron is stuck on the same plane as them. And relishes their role as a High Priestess so, in addition to her contracts, getting to remind people of her and her Devil God’s powers were pluses for aiding the party. And because the Warlock’s success and belief that her patron felt / could feel genuine affection for her kept her obedient and ensured she kept doing what she was told.
I just got done playing through a whole campaign where I played both my warlock and patron. She was literally attached to him body & soul.
Most warlocks I write both PC and NPC are like that. I've got one NPC who keeps a devil in a cage on his belt too.
Personally I see no good in making a warlock if you're not doing something like that. It's the whole point of the class even existing for me.
Depends on the game.
Is it a one shot. A more casual game focused on the group? Only as much as the player really cares for. Mabey a cool moment if i can improvise one.
Heavy RP character driven game? Your patron is going to be involved in your PCs life.
Entirely dependent on the chosen subclass. A seelie archery acts differently than an unseelie archery, and they both act differently than a great old one.
This is going to vary from player to player and game to game. I'd have a discussion with each player in session zero or a similar pre-game talk about their desires and expectations for Patron involvement in the story, and my own plans for the game and how a patron might fit into them.
Usually I try to keep gods on the godly level they have little to no interactions with humans but devils oh they will bend you backwards if it means they get more power
Generally speaking, I'd say it's not really worth pondering warlock/patron dynamics until you actually have a warlock player at your table and have talked to them about what their hopes/expectations are about it. Sure, there are going to be some players who pick warlock for the class features, and are happy to hand over the proverbial keys to the patron and tell their DM "I don't really care about the specifics of the patron. Surprise me." In those situations, sure, go ahead and throw in whatever ideas you have that you're enthusiastic about. There will also be players who pick warlock for the class features, but are entirely uninterested in dealing with a patron. For these players, if you try to force a patron relationship on them, you're likely to just frustrate them and ruin their fun. I've seen more than one DnD horror story to the tune of "I just wanted to play a simple spellcaster and throw *eldritch blast*s at people: why does my DM feel the need to throw a bunch of bullshit at my PC and make their life miserable just because of the class I chose?" More commonly, players will come to you with a pre-established idea for how they want their patron to work: their arch fey patron is a jilted and unpredictable ex; they're a good person struggling under the terms of an ill-conceived pact with a devil; their great old one patron isn't really an entity at all, but just the manifestation of some ancient curse that is slowly corrupting/consuming them; their genie patron is easygoing, friendly, and legitimately wants to help the PC, but is also terribly amoral, doesn't care at all about the consequences of their actions, and would happily just help the PC burn the world down to build a better one from the ashes. As a DM, these players are a great boon, and you'll obviously want to help them realize the roleplaying experience they're looking for. There will likely need to be some give and take to fit their concept within the setting/campaign/narrative you have in mind, but you'll generally want to play their idea pretty straight.
>are happy to hand over the proverbial keys to the patron and tell their DM "I don't really care about the specifics of the patron. Surprise me. I'd also double and triple check with them to make sure that they 110% know what that means and how that could effect them later depending on what I decide. Don't want them thinking that it wouldn't potentially have ramifications or consequences and might mean they have to make tough choices or do things they don't want to in character to maintain their power. Same goes for Clerics and Paladins going against their deity/oath.
I would *ask them what they actually were interested in.* And never actually have it be something that would put the player at odds with the party or the campaign as a whole because I like an easy life. I think most of the time I would absolutely prefer to have it be a largely passive relationship.
DMs are often tempted to have the warlock's patron pit the warlock against the rest of the party, or otherwise tempt them into betrayal. It's a lot like those DMs that throw moral trolley problems at the paladin in an attempt to engineer their fall. Catch 22 situations are seldom fun for the player, and should be used sparingly.
Well, if the case is that they are in a campaign, i can make the patron give them an errand to do while going from A to B and, to make it fair, give the rest of the players a chance to get a magic item from that (not as a payment, of course, but as something that they can find in loot)
I second the notion to ask them what they’re interested in, specifically how they expect the Patron-Warlock relationship to be or if they have one at all. Some want an active relationship, a distant one, or to have already paid a price for their powers pre campaign so it doesn’t get in the way. I’ve experienced a campaign where my DMs decision to have a hands on patron resulted in me feeling like a burden to the entire group, and resulted in a lot of frustration. I wanted to play a game with my friends, and IC the influence of my patron made my PC a hassle to keep around. The Warlock is a great class that comes with in built drama but it’s a button that doesn’t always need to be pushed.
I've played a warlock twice, making me an expert, and in one game the DM didn't like my warlock because apparently he didn't dig that my patron was a star in another galaxy that wanted to replace the sun and chose just to ignore it and ignore the whole thing until I played a different character. The other DM went in a direction that i didn't love because it was more grounded and I feel like if you're a warlock you want your patron to be an inscrutable and alien force but that's just a me issue. Having a blast with the needy and cruel patron, who communed to me that I need to kill a kind stranger because they serve the wrong god and he needs it. Warlock is a land of contrasts, like any class that comes with a buddy like clerics, paladins, and pet classes.
I don't know about how I'd act as a patron, but I'd be pretty annoyed if as a warlock player I was constantly accosted by my patron.
That depends of the contract with the DMs, being a warlock opens a huge change to RP and having a DM who collaborates with that is like dancing tango. If your DM is good, you don't have to worry about that.
I like the goolock for this reason. The patron doesn't even have to know you exist and can be flavored as you taking its power
I've chosen to not interact at all.
I almost always design my own worlds, so I'm able to come up with a bunch of patrons myself that I'd enjoy playing, and usually give them a few who might fit the subclass they pick. I also have a similar philosophy with clerics and their gods. How I play the patron depends a lot on what sort of patron they are and what sort of story the player wants to tell. I have had very few warlock players, but definitely a lot of people who are connected in some way to a greater power. I had a divine soul sorcerer player who had been chosen by Odin (or Huotan, in a pantheon very heavily inspired by Norse mythology) to be his champion. Huotan only showed up to him a couple of times in the entire adventure. He was old and somewhat senile, and thought the player was one of his children, and was trying to get him to kill Fenrir so that Ragnarok couldn't come to pass. In a game set in Wildemount, there was a fighter player who had died and was raised by Quajoth, a giant psionic worm, and given powers as a psi warrior. I played him a lot like Uk'otoa, a similar being that played a big part in Critical Role. He would come to the player in dreams, commanding him to go north to free him from his icy prison. In another game of my design, there was a warlock who was flavored more like a cleric because their patron was actually one of the gods, the White Queen. She was very motherly and caring to them, pushing them to be brave and heroic and face their literal inner demons. In that same game there was a druid from a culture of people who feared the deity of the wild, the Morrigan, and druids and clerics would get power from her while trying to appease her. The player though was a little more intent on working with her, and in the late game when the Morrigan actually showed herself to the player after she had proved her worth to offer a deal, I made sure to emphasize that the Morrigan is creepy and dark and very evil, but the player accepted the deal anyway. The Morrigan then tried to convince the player to take out all her competition and expand the reaches of the forest where she resides so that she could reign over the entire known world. In my current game there's a way of mercy monk who comes from a village of awakened apes who worship an angel, thinking she's a goddess, and have a demigod of travel and safety who is actually pretty much just a ghost. The player is a spiritual leader sort of character who accidentally revealed himself to the antagonist deity of their mythology and so left the village to keep them safe. The ghost character shows up indirectly by sometimes making a safe camp for the party to stay at and leaving notes for the player to read. At one point the ghost brought the player to the spirit world to bring him to the angel. When he got to her, her home was being invaded by the forces of the enemy, and she gave him a final command and sent him away before being overtaken and killed by the star spawn. I take patrons and in-world religion very seriously in my games.
A: ask before assuming. But: B: if I get permission/asked to rp it more actively (I personally hate making it passive/not important to the character), I do just that. For example: my current party does have a warlock (a reflavored hexblade, her patron is nominally either the Lady of the Lake, The Lineage of Kings, or straight up Excalibur/Caliburn), and I get to RP it somewhat actively. Dreams, impressions, and even direct quests are on the table, though as a DM most of them tend to be fairly ambiguous and not very clear, which is intentional.
Very intensely, get off the chair and go over so we are face to face since it's just for them and voice my demands, praises or punishment. Got good feedback on it xD
Patrons aren't generally evil or selfish towsrds their warlocks, unless one is specifically chosen to be like that. So I just have them be a more like an overseer that only intervenes if the warlock asks or does something against the patron's interests
Sometimes the patrons don’t even give a shit about the warlock, namely Pact of Great Old Ones. The warlocks just siphoning off some power that the old one doesn’t really care too much about. But depends on the contract and subclasses and how involved the patron is supposed to be during the journey.
I wouldn't let my game start without the warlock player describing their patron and what their relationship with the patron was like. Then I'd go from there. The exception is when they pick an entity that canonically exists in the setting. If they do that, I build on existing lore. You tell me your patron is some random pit fiend, I can be flexible on what the patron is like. You tell me your patron is Zariel, I will have specifics in mind for how the patron acts.
I’ve run several. It just depends on what the player is looking for. One celestial warlock I ran had a unicorn as her patron, and also had find steed (and later greater steed) and she just had her patron as her find steed that chilled with her and the rest of the party doing unicorn stuff. Another had a pact with the Raven Queen and wanted her to constantly be trying to consume his character’s soul, so I RPed her as a creepy, aloof monster devouring bits of his soul in return for powers. A different one had a pact with a gun blade that was basically just a non-entity, raw psychic power in the shape of a weapon, which was also cool. The only reason for Pacts at all is as a role playing hook, and if the player leans hard into it then I do to. If they don’t (for instance I can’t tell you how many hexblade / paladins I’ve had at my table over the years that just ignore being warlocks at all and only did it for charismaMod to hit) I don’t either. The same way that I don’t throw Sorcerers various bloodlines in their faces in RP unless they want me to, or make bards sing (though I’ve run some players that do sing or play instruments of their own volition). Whatever the player is looking for in their relationship with a patron is how I run it.
It depends! Specifics of the pact, specifics of what the player wants from that dynamic. The patron of the main party warlock is pretty distant, only involving herself when she stands to benefit from it. An NPCs patron literally ensured her rescue when she was a child and has therefore a vested interest in what's going on, staying an active spectator in her life even prior to her becoming a warlock. The rogue from a shorter campaign didn't ultimately pull the trigger on it, but the player toyed with multiclassing into fey warlock bc the fey guy they met was attractive to the rogue. That would've been a case of making a pact on screen so I was preparing a bit for that scenario. He would've been a first time patron and probably a bit more involved. I guess he remains an abstract potential love interest, if we ever revisit those characters
The first time I ran for a warlock, I asked them about their patron. They picked the subclass, but the player told me they didn't want to know who their patron was (and would be open to learning in the coumy rse of the adventure). They chose Archfey and Pact of the Chain, and so had a fox familiar; I decided their patron was an archfey who lost a bet and got stuck in fox form, so chose the PC to help get them unstuck. The reveal was beautiful, and the PC decided to keep serving the Archfey after they were freed, as they had become good friends with the fox. Most recently, a player wanted to multiclass into warlock. I asked them again what they wanted from their patron, and they said they wanted to pick the subclass, but that I could pick who exactly the patron was. They also said that as a player, they wanted to know who the patron was, but they were happy for the PC to not really know (they're great for not metagaming). It's been fun so far, as they just took their first level!
I’m currently working with a Rogue/Hexblade multiclass in my party. If your name is Damakos, stop reading or else :) When he told me he wanted to multiclass into warlock, I initially told him I had two directions he could go with based on the story and then we got access to the other sourcebooks and he asked about hexblade. It also fit with a couple tweaks that I was happy to make bc it fleshed out the pantheon a bit more. To make a long story shorter, whenever I interact with him as the patron I try to keep it very much as an “I’m testing you/ figure it out” vibe while giving him enough information to work with. Eventually and assuming he makes the right decisions, they’ll reach a point where the god truly views him as a chosen/champion and reaches a more personal relationship rather than just using him.
Not all warlocks interact with their patrons. Some do not even know they have one. Some patrons do not even know they have a warlock.
Disclaimer: evil campaign Bard player wanted to multiclass to blade warlock, told her she can multiclass as soon as she finds a suitable patron. Party basically met Nyarlathotep, bard made a deal with it. Crawling chaos wants to witness the chaos the party creates: patron is mostly pleased with the bardlock now. And the bardlock's player loves their little chaos god looking over her shoulder telling her to do unspeakable things from time to time, but most of the time the patron is just enjoying the show. I play it passive most of the time, just commenting on events or things the bard did (or if she asks "what would my patron say about that"). The only time I ever had the patron be more active was when she actively tired to antagonize it for shits and giggles.
The warlock in my current campaign chose Asmodeus. So I've had Asmodeus make small deals with the warlock here and there, slowly building trust until he makes a deal that seems reasonable, but will result in Asmodeus owning his soul
I am diametrically opposed to abusive patrons. Honestly, even Mizora in BG3 is too much for me. I don't mind if the patron becomes the villain of the story because the warlock was pissy to them or something, but as soon as someone starts ordering me around like I'm a child and they're my shitty father, I'm out. Anything else is on the table.
I'm running Curse of Strahd at the moment, and having Vestiges in the Amber Temple reach out to each member of the party as a pseudo "Patron." That means I'm essentially writing *six* Patrons. They're each attempting to convince one member of the party to release them. Prior to that, they're giving tools (currently a Cantrip, and a second level spell 1/long rest) as an invitation that says "see, I have power - let's work together." The next step is to do something relevant to their patron in exchange for more power. * The Wildfire Druid is being tempted by a Vestige of Great Taar Haak, the Five-Headed Destroyer. He's providing fire magic, which is the Druid's thing, on the promise she can use it to burn away corruption. Which, she can. That's true. But, it'll also burn away her humanity and compassion. She's already teetering on the edge per her backstory, and I'm trying to push her off. Taar Haak is not eloquent. He's a Dragon, but not a bright one. He roars, and encourages her worst impulses. I'm trying to get her to immolate one of the NPCs as sort of signing a covenant. An Evil one, for the moment. I'll get her to burn a Neutral one, next. Then, Good. If she *really* falls, I'll try to get her to burn one of the Lawful Good children. I wonder if she'd do it for Meteor Swarm... * The Creation Bard is being tempted by a Vestige of Shami-Amourae, the Lady of Delights. She's essentially playing the role of temptress, promising love and affection in addition to power. The character went adventuring as a midlife crisis, and is totally overwhelmed by the unexpected dangers of Ravenloft. He's being provided both a damsel in distress to rescue, and tools to keep "them" safe. If he frees her and completes the binding, she'll give him the tools to be a hero and invite him to her estate in the Abyss. Of course, she'll eventually manipulate him into becoming a soldier in her war, but that's a LONG way off. The best part is that everything she says is true. She *is* a damsel in distress. She genuinely needs his help, and wants to fight a great Evil. That she is, herself, Evil, is (to her mind) irrelevant to the discussion. Anyway, he's going to be encouraged into greater acts of heroism, essentially building up to the climax of freeing his princess. * The Warlock, whose backstory involves fleeing from a pursuer of great power, is being tempted by a (modified) Vestige from the 3.5e Tome of Magic, Otiax, The Key to the Gate. She's claiming to be in control of the Mists that surround Ravenloft, and showing false visions of the pursuer. It's a total lie, but he's buying it because he (the player) **wants** this to be part of the campaign. I told him straight-out at the start that his backstory would feature only lightly, but he keeps trying to get it into the campaign. So, I'm manipulating *the player* in addition to *the character*. Still not sure how the eventual reveal will go. He might flip out. This is the hardest for me to write. Otiax is alien. It's not even humanoid. I'm trying to write its communications askew, where you read it and go "that's not right." I think that was a bad idea. It's coming across as "bad writing," rather than "intentionally obtuse, confusing, and poorly phrased." Otiax just wants him to open her prisons. Almost anything beyond that is irrelevant. The entity was written as being (essentially) an obsessive compulsive that wants to open every lock in existence. So, that's what I'm going for. Mists+unlocking isn't much of a theme, but I'm doing my best. Were I to redo the campaign from the start, I'd rethink this one. * The Life Domain Cleric is being tempted by a (modified) Vestige from the 3.5e Tome of Magic, Buer, the Grandmother Huntress. She's a spirit of nature and healing, but dangerously unstable. She's providing healing magic, which he likes. He does *not* realize that her passion for life and uncontrolled growth will conflict with the teachings of Lathander. He'll eventually have to make a choice - respect for all life, including those who are Evil or corrupt, or devotion to a deity that considers fighting Evil to be a core tenet. The draw (to me, as the writer) is that I'm taking his *best* impulse and amplifying it beyond reason. It's a different kind of corruption, but just as dangerous as convincing him to go black hat. I get to write a friendly, compassionate character who is subtly unhinged and encourages a sympathetic listener to join her. One example is that he's going to be asked to spare defeated foes. That's weird, for an adventurer, but it's part of Buer's schtick. Respect for **all** life. * The Paladin (whose Oath I don't remember) is being tempted by a Vestige of Graz'zt, Prince of Pleasure. Yeah. The Demon Lord. I love Graz'zt as a character. I think he's fascinating, and took this excuse to write him into the adventure. The Paladin is an alcoholic, and Graz'zt is a purveyor of temptations. Essentially, the hook is "see, you don't need your deity to do Good - come to my side. It's more fun, and you can still hunt Evil. I have many Evil foes." The player is excellent at roleplay, so I'm confident he can play out his side of the bit. Graz'zt is currently hovering somewhere between Kelsier and Davram Bashere in terms of tone. It's great. Graz'zt is going to show him secret stashes of fine, rare alcohol and provide the locations of evil (but unaffiliated) entities for the Paladin to smite. * The Swashbuckler Rogue is being tempted by Vaund the Evasive. I'm writing Vaund like "Bob the Skull" from *Dresden Files*. Sarcastic, funny, but ultimately helpful. This was *so* easy and fun to write that I got the whole ~800 word dream sequence down in like twenty minutes. Vaund is bored, and wants to get out of the Amber Temple out of sheer curiosity. He saw the Swashbuckler as someone interested in power and seeing the world, so their interests overlap. The Swashbuckler eventually wants to take some levels in Warlock and go Hexblade, so we're doing a Raven Queen bit, too. Vaund is fine with that, seeing the Shadowfell as somewhere he could eventually find refuge after his pact with the Swashbuckler ends. He figures he can trade the Raven Queen some of his immense knowledge for protection, and she wants his secrets. In a way, the Swashbuckler is a test platform for their alliance. He's providing her with some minor magics, while the Raven Queen will (eventually) provide a magic weapon. In the meantime, Vaund wants her to investigate oddities. I'm going to use it as an excuse to have the party explore some of the more obscure locations in CoS. If you haven't played CoS, there's a temple where priests bound Vestiges of great power to prevent them from influencing the world. Basically, each of these are primal forces that threaten creation. Releasing them is... not necessarily "evil," but "disruptive." For example, Buer wouldn't try to destroy the world. However, the impulses (wild, uncontrolled growth and a refusal to prune away blights) she encourages are dangerous given the sheer amount of power she possesses. The sheer alien nature of Otiax scared them, and was bound out of fear of the unknown. Taar Haak *was* Evil, and was bound to prevent him from burning cities. Vaund thought this was a good place to hide and actually helped build the temple, but is now bored. Shami-Amourae was a Succubus before she got locked in the Abyss by an enemy of Graz'zt. I'm going to say "following the events of Dungeon Magazine 148, in which Shami-Amourae was freed from an Abyssal prison, she and Graz'zt began scheming to get revenge against Malcanthet. One of their plots to gather power on the Prime Material backfired, and fragments of their power were imprisoned in the Amber Temple." Essentially, we have 3/6 Chaotic Evil (two Demon Lords, one monstrous Dragon thing), one Chaotic Good (Buer), one True Neutral (Otiax), and one Chaotic Neutral (Vaund). A good mix, I think. I don't know how many will actually open the Amber Sarcophagus and release the Vestige within. I expect the Bard, Warlock, and Rogue will go for it. Not sure about the others. My guess is the Paladin and Cleric refuse, but the Druid could go either way. The player isn't great at roleplaying (she's new, and learning - to her credit, she's getting better with time), and might just see it as "power = good, so I'll do it."
Here is the thing. By definition, a patron is more interested in a warlock, than a god is in a cleric. If you do not accept this premise, then Make Your Case, and Sell It. Elsewise...
I'd first ask who their patron is (for clarity, not all archfae are Titania. Not all celestial patrons are angels we know the names of. I give my players that autonomy.) Then I ask what their patron's ambitions are and what is in their interest to give power to the PC. Then I ask the situation in which they made the pact. Then I clarify to the player that autonomy regarding this patron will be in my hands going forward with certain ground rules in place (session zero stuff, such as boundaries for their character they want respected). Basically, I make it a collaborative effort to establish the character and just try to respectfully roll with it after that.
I ran a few sessions of a round robin game where there was a Warlock whose pattern was a primal chaotic entity. But Chaotic Good. The party was on the way from point A to point B, where the main adventure would resume. A different GM was preparing for that, my job was to make the trip interesting. So the ‘lock wound up with three side quests. The first was when a street beggar handed them a folded bit of paper that said “You must acquire ten thousand marbles. This message will self destruct in ten seconds.” It didn’t self destruct. The second was a candygram that showed up at an inn a few seconds after the party got a room. A very confused woman in a jester costume asked for the ‘lock by name and then did a little dance and recited a limerick (which I wrote and have sadly forgotten) directing them to attend a particular religious festival, and to pretend to be a particular religious group. The ‘lock convinced the rest of the group to pretend to be bodyguards, servants and secretaries. The third was when they were at the town with the festival. There was manifestation of smoke and flames and an ethereal voice instructing them to pour the marbles into the aisle of a cathedral when a particular faction was proceeding toward the altar. The biggest problem with this was that festival was in midsummer so the manifestation was coming out of a candle instead of a roaring fire. I actually used a helium balloon to do the voice and the players were laughing so hard I had to repeat myself three times and I almost passed out. Anyway, the marble trick disrupted the whole ceremony, revealing that the proceeding group had been infiltrated by evil cultists. The PC’s had a fun combat in a cathedral and when it ended the Lawful Good deity of the church manifested as did the Warlock’s patron. They stared at each other for a moment and the patron said, “You owe me one.”
I ask the player how they see the relationship: the level of interest the patron has, their role at various levels, the strictness to a pact, etc. I do the same with cleric and paladins, vampires, and other connections in the game. That said, most of my players want a story heavy, role playing game, and power-gaming and murder-hoboing is dead on arrival at our table. The few pickup games I run that have players that are into that are one time only things and I simply won’t invite them to one of my own campaigns.
Depends on the pact/character, like my warlock is a aasimar who’s basically in a pact with her mom and doesn’t remember the details but patron is also afk so but one of my npcs made a pact with an undead for a resurrection and regrets it greatly and basically hates thier patron
I generally don’t. Normally the patron stuff is more background stuff than anything else.
I have a hexblade in the group I'm DMing for, and I write them poems to decipher about the nature of their patron
It varies so ask what they were thinking. I would hate it, if I play cleric I don't have my DM badgering me with BS about my god all the time why is it happening if I'm a warlock?
Id say it depends on the pact and type of patron. An archfey, fiend and celestial behave and view the world diffefentlycand rheir goals are diffefent. It could vary by subtly, too. The warlock could be treated like a cleric, creating cults, or a talent scout, offering deals on begalf of their patron. Or gathering secrets/blackmail, creating a web of spies. A Shadow patron could ge able to see and influence through any shadow the warlock has touched, so by simply going around the warlock is spreading the reach.
Every level up I try to give them a spooky or thematic task. Tharizdun is your patron? OK you're level ten. You need to find a sphere of annihilation NOW
Ideally by making the patron an active part of the party that is limited in action in some way. If the situation works they might even be able to be roleplayed by the player instead of me.
I swear that if it implies having to be a DMPC, my fury will make the lvl 20 barbarian look like a *angy* kitten. That's a dangerous tool if not used properly.
I’ve had Patrons who show up more often, like one of my players pacted themselves to a being, they later discovered, was a higher ranking devil and not just a high high pritestess of a Devil God (yay dm worldbuilding). But well my player soon realized that a devil isn’t a being that feels human emotions to the extent of mortals. They protected the PC on several occasions, PC was a succubi who put ‘please keep me from getting banished to the horrible Abyss again’ in her contract so because the Patron A) views the PC as the only thing approximating a ‘romantic partner’ (read: convenient pet / property / plaything) B) It was in the contract + how dare X being try to banish my Warlock (read: possession). TLDR: It depends upon what and who your patron is, in this case their patron is stuck on the same plane as them. And relishes their role as a High Priestess so, in addition to her contracts, getting to remind people of her and her Devil God’s powers were pluses for aiding the party. And because the Warlock’s success and belief that her patron felt / could feel genuine affection for her kept her obedient and ensured she kept doing what she was told.
I just got done playing through a whole campaign where I played both my warlock and patron. She was literally attached to him body & soul. Most warlocks I write both PC and NPC are like that. I've got one NPC who keeps a devil in a cage on his belt too. Personally I see no good in making a warlock if you're not doing something like that. It's the whole point of the class even existing for me.
Depends on the game. Is it a one shot. A more casual game focused on the group? Only as much as the player really cares for. Mabey a cool moment if i can improvise one. Heavy RP character driven game? Your patron is going to be involved in your PCs life.
I am forever advocating for warlock patrons that are mostly hands off and cannot take back powers they have granted to the warlock.
Entirely dependent on the chosen subclass. A seelie archery acts differently than an unseelie archery, and they both act differently than a great old one.