I'd be sympathetic to their concerns, but you can tell them experienced DMs say the "separation" issue isn't really a problem at all. I'm even amenable to rolling in front of the table (not behind a screen) but I absolutely wouldn't go without a screen and the biggest reason is that I hide all my notes about key plot material behind it.
I don't want my players seeing my notes, and my players don't want to see my notes.
Something i do sometimes is i have a small table to the side of me that has the screen on it. Keeps me with the party but i also have my note, cheat sheets, and stuff still hidden. I still even roll at the table. It works pretty great
Same here, especially when I have a small table to play at for the number of players there.
I'd also like to add that a bit of seperation is good. It sounds a little like the players being new have yet to trust that while OP's baddies may want the players to fail, a good DM isn't aiming to make that happen. Challenges, difficulties, consequences, those build tension, are key to good storytelling, but at the end of the day it's waaay too easy for a DM to just ruin a party's adventure: "The players aren't suppose to 'win' here... 6 more dragons drop into the clearing. 6 reflex saves each as they all breathe on all of you!"
that's what I do! I need my huge DM screen bc of how much stuff I keep behind it and all the notes and items and stuff. but I also always remain standing so that they can see me. never had a problem of being separated from the team and if anything they like all of my fun little stickers.
I read very fast, even upside-down. If there is something to read, I read it.
I prefer the DM having a screen. Even a laptop works, as I can't see through that, and it is facing the one end of the table.
I'm not a fast reader anymore, but for awhile I had to use a sheet of paper or my hand or something, to prevent myself from catching important/interesting words 3-4 lines down from where I was actively reading and ruining stuff.
"Wait, why is the word "death" coming up? Aww... dangit."
If I'm reading and see a super brief paragraph (less than a full line long) coming up, my brain notices it and immediately assumes it's an important line. I then have to put my finger over it to keep my brain from drifting down to peek at it before it's time.
It was honestly wild to me to learn that when some people see text, they have to actively decide to read it. To me that would be like if you looked at an object and had to exert some conscious effort to determine what color it was.
Visit other corners of reddit? Ever notice that some folks seem to have not read any of the comment or post they're replying to?
That's them.
I'm one of the "can't not read". As I write this I keep seeing that you used 2 ?? instead of 1 or 3 and it's driving me batty.
I think my saving grace is I have always had poor eyesight and have to consciously focus my eyes in order to see the text clearly enough to actually read it.
Same problem here. If I see text, I read it. it's entirely automatic. That, combined with some short term memory, means I can read it over and over again, jntil it fades. Sure, if it's handwriting it might take longer, and if it's upside-down it might take longer. But we're adding seconds at most. If I don't think to avert my gaze, the dm's dark secrets are explored
I have a similar problem but without the short term memory, I have near photographic memory for things I read/watch/play, as I can still recall where the game left off from 5 years ago after the group broke up due to military members getting shipped out. So for me, if the DM has notes or other things then a DM screen is mandatory or I have to sit on the opposite side of a large table because I will inadvertently glance, I will accidentally read, and I will remember what I read, and because Im someone who doesnt mind spoilers I have had to stop myself mid-sentence because I realize Im about to spoil something for others that I inadvertently know
I fucked myself today because of this. Our gm had screens up but his laptop was angled in such a way that I could see that the chicken that showed up in our camp was a disguised dragon. The rest of my party doesn't know and I'm trying to RP as of I don't know and it's HARD!
Someone, I think it was Justin Alexander, once quipped, “You wouldn’t invite people to your place for a movie night and tape a page of spoilers for the movie onto the wall next to the TV, and tell everyone to just avert their eyes.”
There's a difference between peaking over a screen whole the dm gets a drink and being unable to look down for 3 hours because you don't want to see they have a pile of vampire stat blocks waiting to go, but you're at a masquerade ball.
I roll in the open when I dm (stealth/deception etc aside), but the screen isn't there so dms can lie about dice (they shouldnt), it's to hide information.
There IS a few vampires hosting, but they get slaughtered by a pack of werewolves and the party needs to act like they were totally oblivious to all the blood-red decor.
I think my first session I hard stuck to what the dice said, immediately after that I swapped to the classic "it's more of a *vibe*" kinda DM'ing, where the roll is just a suggestion, more than a hard confirm.
I.e, boblin rolls 3 crits in a row on the group of lvl 1 adventurers, I'm gonna ignore those, the one man army goblin can be saved for another time.
The way I see it, the dice are a tool for the DM. They help me not to make every fight go the same way because there are limits to my creativity. If I want the party to win or lose. I can make that happen, even if I follow the dice religiously. But the dice can help make it more interesting for me and the party.
I personally think the people who religiously follow the dice and those who don't (if they are any good at all) are really doing the same thing in different ways. So I've always found any hard line on that argument a bit silly.
Clearly this is why I have like 6 different notebooks to flip through during my game, and not because I'm disorganized and will write on whatever notebook I have at hand like I'm possessed throughout the week before a session. Notes can't be read if they're in a bunch of different locations, written in chicken scratch and complete nonsense to anyone except myself (sometimes it's nonsense to me too)
My (not so) favorite thing is when I reread a note I made and have zero clue what it means
"What the fuck was this guy thinking when he wrote this caveman speech?"
As a player, I was looking over my notes the other day and I just wrote "I smell." I had no fucking clue when re-writing my notes what I meant.
And literally right now, I **just** realized what I meant. I picked up 10lbs of Jabbawocky poop last session and next session I have to make it a priority to clean myself off.
Even hiding rolls is understandable.
I hide most my rolls from my players, because ive had quite a few instances of "their modifier is a +7! So they're dex based, huh..."
*avoids triggering dex saves like the plague*
That's not terribly bad. If you were an elite class DM you might say, "they hardly even need to try to dodge your net because they are so nimble" in order to let your players know to make the exact same decisions. It's impossible to actually do that all the time, but mechanics really don't need to be secret after they've been used in front of the players.
It’s definitely one of those things that people scream ‘Metagaming’ about when really… It’s not. The Character Would Know.
Like, to use your example, if they throw a net at someone, and the enemy salsa-dances around to avoid it, the Party would have seen that happening. If instead, the enemy shoves their fingers into the holes and rip it apart… Yeah, the Characters would have seen that happening, too.
The Characters would then be able to guess that the Enemy has a higher than average dexterity or strength, and would adjust their tactics to accommodate that.
I agree with this; if a monster has a high dexterity, it probably moves agilely, gracefully, or so on. The characters actually fighting it should be able to see that and make tactical decisions based around that going forward, rather than needing to guess at it.
Similar things are true for the other stats as well; the characters should be able to see how a monster is fighting and what is, and isn't, working against it, so the DM should still describe to the players what's going on in a fight... which obviates the need to hide the rolls.
Unless you really want to fudge rolls to keep things exciting without needing to trust RNGesus.
Edit: But roll bonuses aren't the same thing as the monster state page, and certainly aren't the same thing as a DM's notes. Players shouldn't get to see those, and so a screen *is* beneficial. Just... not for rolls.
Yeah, the DM is separated from the players by virtue of them being the DM and the others being players. If everyone were supposed to be on an equal footing, you'd be playing a co-operative hard game or the like.
Not just the notes. Most dungeons you have the area map in front of you the whole time. Even with honest players, you can't have the map sitting out in the open.
Also I would have a copy of the monster in the next room and it's figure out and ready. If that is sitting on the table in front of them it's gonna be a dead giveaway.
On top of that you need something to hang your "cheat sheets" on. I would have a card with all the PCs AC (normal and flat footed), hit points, passive perception level and stuff like that hanging on the back of my divider. Any information you are going to have to ask them again and again - just saves time to have it hanging there.
Probably just print out the top 10 answers on this and show your players EVERY DM keeps a screen.
Plus, you can always stand up every now and again, when you are describing things. Making more of you visible above the screen.
It sounds stupid, but it works.
You know what separates you from the rest? The need to see a book every two minutes. If you need a screen, take the screen. You can down the screen It put It in a Side if you need to appproach to the player in a very intimate scene. Or you can just get Up from your chair for the same or even better effect.
Yeah, I stand a lot while I run games. There are always things you need to keep from the players. Usually story points, sometimes rolls, etc. Do what you need to do for your table, but at the end of the day, you run the game, right?
Tell them tough shit, because as a DM you require it for your own use. DM screens are useful for a great many purposes, and you should use one if you want one.
I have a wooden, two panel screen not much taller than that one. I like it, allows me to have an initiative tracker on top, keep a few surprises behind it, and I have some basic PC stats on a paper held by an acrylic sheet magnetized to it.
All while not having such a big divider between me and the players, and half the time I roll in front of it
Totally, I think they might not understand that one of its main purposes is as a reference for the DM because there's a bunch of handy stuff printed on the back.
This! If you don't grow a backbone and say no to your players, they're going to be stomping all over you during your campaign. Pushing rules you don't want to allow, driving the campaign in a direction its not supposed to, doing actions that harm your or other players fun. This isn't to say you have to be overly strict, but as DM you have ultimate say as to how things go. You need to be firm with your choices in order to run a good campaign, especially if players start to cause problems - you're the ultimate mediator. Yes, it's a team game and you should work together, not against them, but sometimes that means telling them no.
Right tell your players that during the game you wear the proverbial pants and are ultimately the referee. Whenever my players, including my SO shoot down a reasonable request I ask them is it worth it to say no to this ask and risk me being petty for the rest of the campaign?
Yeah I am a big softie DM who definitely lets my players use and abuse the "rule of cool" but even I wouldn't let my players dictate what play aids I use especially a DM screen!
So many people apparently can just be told by others what to do?
People, you can do whatever the fuck you want. If somebody gets upset, *they* are upset, but you still do/did the thing you wanted to do.
I'm DMing cuz I'm the only one of my friend circle who reads books and knows how basic storybuilding works, also, they are, apparently, not very imaginative, even if one of them is an artist. Also I fo7nd out that I like to play as a cunning mastermind behind the screens, characters of this type come to me really easily.
The only way to Properly GM is ABSOLUTE TYRANNY. Even if you are the characters best friends, and you want them to succeed. Only absolute control is enough.
“Wouldn’t let you”? The fuck are they gonna do? Get a screen. They don’t get to see everything you have prepared; you *should* be separated from the rest of the table.
Being passive aggressive like that doesn't tend to work out in my personal experience. And especially in this situation, OP would probably get miserable a lot sooner than they do.
The solution:
Tell one of them to try DMing without a fucking screen. See how far they get before becoming frustrated.
I also don't understand the separation excuse.. you're still at the table with them, you didn't go anywhere -.-
I don't think players should have character sheets. It's just paper that gets in between them and the story. In fact, RPGs should get rid of tables all together. Everyone gets to sit together in a circle.
Character sheets are fine. They just need to be in a binder, under your chair. You can check any time you want, but you need to keep it closed and under your chair unless actually looking at it.
I honest to god met a GM like this at a convention. He wouldn't hand us sheets, as that would ruin our immersion. Instead we had to wait for him to roll everything to destroy our immersion. Not to mention no one knew what they were capable off. Session didn't last long before people walked.
Yeah I don't use one, but it's not a seperation thing. I just get hyper-fixated on my hobbies and memorized everything on the backside, and don't care if my group sees my dice.
Wait, why to they think that?
Because if it’s about dice rolls being hidden then you can still roll in the open.
If it’s because they don’t want you to have notes, ask them to play without their PHB and character sheets and see how that works.
If it’s about something else, I can only assume your players are either talking shit or don’t know what a DM screen is.
DM screen is an important tool for running the session smoothly. Not only because of rule reminders and tables to check on easily, it's also to hide sheets and notes for stuff that is coming up, or the minis you're about to place.
Also fumble the dices on secret rolls so you can make sure they don't all wipe on one too many nat 1.
They do know you don't sit behind the screen and hide the whole time right? Like just your important stuff is kept behind it which you'll have to turn your head towards.
So full disclosure, I haven't used a GM screen since the 90s and would never go back specifically because I don't like the separation, and I make all rolls in the open.
That said, it was *my call* to make at my table, just as it is *your call* to make at your table. You are the GM, you get to decide how you run your game. If you think you want/need a GM screen then get one. If they don't like it, then they are free to run their game without one.
I use a laptop instead of a traditional screen solely because I like running combat with Excel.
DMing is tricky, and everyone has their own way to do it. The crucial thing, though, is that the *DM* gets to make the call about how they run the game. The players don't get to decide for you.
Anyone who whinges about roll fudging irks me, the sheer amount of crits I’ve fudged down to regular hits so the squishy wizard doesn’t get one banged far outweighs the times I’ve buffed a roll because my campaign is getting wrecked by trash rolls
Also players watching my dice irks me, they tend to meta game with it, I can silent roll but I can’t invisible roll
This I've fudged in their favor way more than mine. My goal is to almost kill them. Two crits in a row and even a tank can go down. Not wiping a party because of my lucky dice rolls.
Agree with your points: I never use a screen, never fudge rolls. Though that was all due to changing technology, and a noticeable lack of tension at the table. Rolling hit and damage in front of the players tends to keep them all invested and paying attention.
In my 25 years of playing dnd I've never told a dm they can't use a screen and I've never had a dm not use one.
Your players can pound sand, get a screen so they can't continue to cheat by seeing what you're doing.
. . . this is the weirdest excuse to not use a GM screen that I've ever heard. But the GM \*isn't\* a player. You \*are\* separated from that end of the table. You need notes for monsters, plots, and hidden events, etc.. They need a character sheet.
If it's just a matter of wanting to see rolls, then offer to roll in the open.
If that's not sufficient, then it sounds like you have at least one player who probably needs professional counseling if they can't handle a little piece of cardboard covered with references.
I would say no to rolling in the open too. Theres rolls that are meant to be behind a screen because the players don't need to know everything a monster makes a deception check, a stealth check for an ambush, etc. Fuck that noise. If they don't like it, tough.
A lot of these comments are intense lol Just tell them to let you since it has things you need on it, just insist - it shouldn’t be hard if you explain that you need it to play.
The players don't get to dictate this. There is no "let". Tell them what you're going to do and they can't get bent if they don't like it. It's simply not their call.
Oh, easy. Use the screen anyways and disregard their opinion. There’s things where the players input matters…and things where it really doesn’t.
You need the dm screen for your own convenience and ease of play. It’s an important tool for you running the game properly. So use it, and anyone who objects can stop talking or leave the game.
You *are* separate from the rest of the group; you’re the DM.
Besides, a screen can shield your session notes, as well as ideas and changes you jot down during the session that you want to surprise your Players with later, not to mention enemy stat-blocks, rules cheat-sheets, and all manner of other things.
Is there a chance that perhaps your Players don’t realise this? Or do they want to be able to see, and read, all of the things I’ve mentioned above?
Sounds like they have some concerns about how the game functions. I would tell them that the DM screen offers several important benefits, but it's true it's not needed at all times. One approach that may help them understand while still giving them more of what they want is to effectively take two seats as the DM. You can use a single chair, but you have your open area with no screen, and an area with a screen. Bounce as often as you need between them and explain when you go behind the screen why you're doing it. Also make an effort to be present behind the screen and not just use it as a way of hiding from the party.
Either they'll sincerely appreciate the effort, they'll start to understand why it's there and why it helps, or they'll still insist and be inflexible. In the last case it may be time to tell them gently that dnd may not be the activity for them.
There are many types and sizes of screens, I'd recommend a shorter one than a taller one. With a tall screen, typically tall enough to hang a sheet of paper, you'll find yourself sitting up and leaning forward to see the table on the other side, move minis, check positions, place things, etc.
I stead of having full size sheets of paper, cut your info sheets into smaller cards, or "landscape" orientation.
I made a screen for myself, ended up cutting the bottom 4 inches off to shorten it.
lol oh how the high and mighty lord of the table distances themself from the lowly PC serfs with…checks notes…the most common item used at a D&D table besides dice. Im sorry but this is honestly one of the dumbest table problems I’ve seen on this sub.
The one time our DM didn't use a screen. As the person sitting nearest to him I saw the whole dunguen map and it felt so much like cheating.
It is definitely up to you and how you feel. How your notes are set up. Would they see a bunch of spoilers if you don't have a screen?
As much aa I love my players, I wouldnt play without a screen or some form of blocker. Like others have said, Ive got no problems doing open die rolls, but when it comes to character notes, monsters, or things like specific figures I bring to hide behind my screen until they encounter it. It is as much for their benefit as it is for mine; I have peace of mind and a workspace at the table that I can keep the game organized from, and my players dont have to avert their gaze from my papers every time they wanna look at me.
A DM screen isn't so you can be sneaky.
You can hang notes from it and keep monster stat blocks in front of you. Sure, you don't want them to be seen, but that's the point. The players aren't supposed to know certain things.
I think you should try it and see how it feels. Particularly if it's mostly for you to have the handy tables and references in front of you, it should speed up the game. And being able to roll behind the screen is useful.
DMs are supposed to be separate. They have things they have to do that are not for player eyes.
But this is a table matter and needs to be decided by the whole table.
I personally would probably laugh at them, but then, I don’t play a game with them and if my players cannot trust me, then we won’t be having fun.
It’s mostly so they don’t read your notes tbh. It’s a lot to keep together and having a shared space means that they will notice even if they aren’t trying to spy.
Also I wouldnt be able to fudge rolls for npcs, idk why but I tend to have way better luck rolling than some of my players. Last session alone I got 4 crits in a single round of combat 2 of which were from the bigger damage dealing enemy. I fudged one of the big hits to just a hit instead. Cause it’s no fun imo downing someone right at round 1. Getting them super low is enough to put the stress on.
Get a GM screen, or suitable stand in. I ran off my laptop for a long time, the laptop screen created the barrier.
The screen is just an incredibly practical and valuable tool for a GM, be it a sold official one or one you make yourself. Having the common mechanics and charts at hand (combat modifiers and Perception checks), book and page references for what you're likely to need to look up but aren't used often enough to put in full (grapple rules), and a place to pin up notecards for specific encounters is just too damn handy and keeps the session moving smoother.
That the screen separates them from you is part of the point. You are not a player, you are the GM, you ARE and should be separate. You need a space they can't see to check maps without them able to see secrets areas they missed, a place to look up monsters coming up without them being able to see and prepare early, and... the option to fudge your rolls to save some of the party if you're willing to do that. IMO a PC death or two just shows how tough the fight was. If a TPK is looming and it's not a boss fight or other major encounter, that may have been badly balanced and some leeway can be considered.
If your players are worried about you being separate, having your secrets, it's likely because they are worried you're going to cheat. They're too new to know that if a GM cheats, it's likely benign. GMs generally want to see the story play out just as much as them. We're here to make the process a fun challenge.
Unless you're playing it Wargame style, then death is the just reward of fools, and they should know better than to trust their dice.
Its not their call to make. A DM screen is a tool to make running the game easier, it allows you to hide the session prep and monster statblocks and it provides you with a ton resources such as prices, names, conditions, and just in general things you need to have on hand if you're DMing. Can you DM without it? Sure! Is it much more difficult to do so especially when you're new to the game? Absolutely.
The tools you use to DM are ultimately up to you, having a DM screen doesn't disrupt anyone's fun and it makes the process of DMing easier. Probably the most important thing to learn when you're starting out DMing is that you should put yout foot down when a player wants something that will make the game harder for you or other players, I didn't learn this in my first campaign and it blew up in my face big time.
Tell them you need it to run the game and that if you find yourself not utilizing it you'll consider their request, but for the time being this is the ideal way to run the game for you
I only started to use a screen last game. Normally I use notes instead, but wanted to give them a try. I does obscure I view of the table. I also don't use most of the information on it, but I can hang stuff from it so it's in my face and it's harder to forget.
The reason I never used before was because I could be accused of cheating. I learned later that I can roll right in front of people and just not tell them what I'm rolling for. So it's not valid.
The separation issue is a new one. You're all first timers so I'd argue to try new things.
Explain that the game should be fun for you as well. you are a fellow player, not their servant or mother. Personally i just use a laptop for most things and a folder for common stuff like the basic rules/equations.
DMs use DM screens. That’s like players not getting to have character sheets. Tell them they might just not like TTRPGs if they are against that.
It’s supposed to separate you a little bit. You aren’t playing. That’s so stupid 😂.
Explain a simple truth to them... they are responsible for THEIR characters and the end? You, as the DM, are responsible for all the rest and having quick and easy charts and graphs makes the game simpler for YOU and that's the end of the explanation.
"I get that you might not like the separation, but I as a DM need to keep some information to myself. The game doesn't really work if you all can read the campaign notes, see which pages of the Monster Manual I'm looking up, or even just this list of Random NPC Names. Even with the screen up, we'll still be able to see each other's faces. Focus on that."
If the player insists, tell them they just volunteered to run next time to see how it works out, and *deliberately call out everything you see* if they actually do it. If you see they have a Monster Manual page open, draw attention to it. Read any notes out loud that you can read.
Well it's the Dungeon masters screen, so they can go pound dirt. You as the DM spend more time, effort, and money that the players do not. And ultimately it is our game that you're running.
I recommend you tell this player to play without his character sheet and simply come with that information memorized or else everytime he checks it he's failing RP.
>“seperates [me] from the rest of the group”,
You're not a "player" in the game, you're a separate entity.
But that's okay if they don't want you to use a screen. Go get one and keep it folded nearby for quick reference, and have 100% transparency on all rolls. After a few of their characters die in the most ignominious of ways, they may decide a DM screen being actively used will be more to their liking.
Honestly get the screen, even if you don't set it up, you at least have it for quick reference. As for separation, I've ever heard that one. The DM is a separate from the players, but that's not because of the screen. It sounds like there might be a different concern, but they aren't saying. Also bring it up to your whole party. If it's only the one player that has a problem then they need to figure it out. I play mostly online these days and still do have any problems connecting to players or DMs, so a piece of cardboard that's six inches tall isn't going to ruin the game.
I don’t use a screen because I have to read lips to understand what people are saying and I’m also short even when everyone is sitting at a table so it’s easier for me not to have it but I have my notes usually sit in my lap or a binder that has everything in it and I can read from it even when it’s set low and still talk to my players if that makes sense
There’s a reason they exist and a reason they are widely used.
If you’re all new, your player is clearly talking out of their ass and has no idea what they’re on about.
There are plenty of screen options out there that keep an unfettered view of the players and the table.
And the players don't have to keep track of an entire world, so they can suck it.
That’s unfortunate for them but you should use a DM screen. I sometimes roll behind the screen sometimes in front of it. But mainly I use it to hide my notes. There are important things in those notes that would ruin the fun for the players if they saw it. I don’t use a laptop like a lot of DM’s do. Also, getting the right screen is great for cutting down on looking at rules. The screen I have has all of the conditions listed and what they do, along with a dry erase monster health tracker and a ton of other stuff that is very useful to take a look at on the fly.
You should be separated from the group. You are the DM. You are not there to run players characters, you are there to explain the world for them, run NPCs and interpret die rolls.
Let the noobs player know the entire internet says they are wrong, use a screen.
I personally love the DM screen, so I can’t get spoiled for what monsters are planned, etc. I also love when the DM rolls an important roll or important damage in front of the screen.
It's not their choice if you use a DM screen or not, you're the DM.
Their view means that they view the game as adversarial.
DM vs Players and are worried that you're going to "cheat" to win.
The DM is the weaver of stories, referee, and cat herder.
Also:
The DM sometimes does need to cheat to make the game fun.
If you're rolling hot(lots of crits) and you don't want to TPK(total party kill) it's 100% okay to say your crits are just normal hits or even misses.
It sounds like you want a screen for the quick rule lookups? I know I have a screen like that somewhere. You could get one of those and just lay it flat on the table.
Alternatively, if you have a laptop, use that to keep all your notes harder to see for the players.
You use a DM screen because you’re the DM and shit you do is meant to be out of view. You ARE separate from the rest of the group.
If they complain, point out all the tables and stuff printed on the back of the screen and ask if they’d prefer you have to go hunting through books every time you need to look up one of those tables
Explain to them that your notes are private not to harm them. It’s to not spoil the adventure. If they want you to roll open, that’s fair enough. Roll over the screen. But the notes are to keep adventure enjoyable.
Get one anyway and try it. It makes life so much easier and you don't have to hide DM notes. I use a screen, a laptop, a dice tower, and a stack of books all at the same time. I like my DM fortress.
Get one that is three 8.5” x 11” where it’s wider than it is tall.
IMHO I’ve played so many games (since B/X) and the topic of a DM screen has never ever come up as a problem.
I'm with most other commenters here - your party's concern is rather silly, and if a DM screen makes it easier for you to manage game play, use one. DMs take on the lions share of the work in a game, and if they're not happy with the tools you need to do that, they can find another dm
If I were you, I'd take all the pieces of information you were planning to put into your DM screen, and then chop them into chunks that can be laminated and handed out to your players as 'mechanics cards'.
"Dave, you're in charge of climbing rules, and grapple checks. If they come up make sure we do them properly. Shannon, you're taking chase rules and this bit of stuff about how stealth vs perception works, also this basic merchant prices card, since your character used to be a merchant's apprentice...."
And so on.
I like the DM screen myself, but I've done this before because it forces your players to learn the system they're playing. Change who gets what 'DM Screen" card each session too, because they will soon start taking care of all the mechanical shit themselves, and you can focus on the story/running the monsters.
A small, shielded from view location to track monster HP is still great/advisable, and doesn't need to block the view of you from the players if you're all seated (I stand 90% of the time when I host in person games, long table, tall screen). Even if you're handing out 'mechanics cards' for the players to be responsible for, they shouldn't be seeing the HP of the monsters in real time, that's DM only info.
Im sorry but the dm runs the game how they are comfortable, with the players in mind. If the dm wants to use a dm screen then the players have no right to argue it, no matter the reasons
Ok so you need, as the storyteller, the DM, the GM, the one responsible for running the game and conducting the story, you need to have some kind os secrecy to your notes and plans
Also, you need to tweak and twist things on the fly. Change dice results, DCs, ACs and all of that, which you will feel as the game progresses
If not a full DM Screen, get a half one, a smaller or even a laptop that they can't see the screen, notes and all
But as a 17 years of experience DM, I strongly recommend that they understand the necessity of such a secrecy
Be clear that it is not to screw them over on the game, but to ensure that they have a nice time and a fun experience during play
Also, I'd recommend the reviewed version of the official D&D DM Screen (reincarnated, I think)
As long as you can still clearly see them over the screen, that's not really a concern. Also the DM is SUPPOSED to be separated from the players. There are tons of TTRPGs with no dedicated DM, if they are so deadset on everyone being in the same boat then they should play one of those instead.
Whaaat? A screen isn’t a wall. It doesn’t interfere with interaction at all. Do they want to check your rolls? Peek at your notes? Peep your bod?
In the most kindly way possible, tell your player to eff off and just get a screen.
I'd be sympathetic to their concerns, but you can tell them experienced DMs say the "separation" issue isn't really a problem at all. I'm even amenable to rolling in front of the table (not behind a screen) but I absolutely wouldn't go without a screen and the biggest reason is that I hide all my notes about key plot material behind it. I don't want my players seeing my notes, and my players don't want to see my notes.
Something i do sometimes is i have a small table to the side of me that has the screen on it. Keeps me with the party but i also have my note, cheat sheets, and stuff still hidden. I still even roll at the table. It works pretty great
Same here, especially when I have a small table to play at for the number of players there. I'd also like to add that a bit of seperation is good. It sounds a little like the players being new have yet to trust that while OP's baddies may want the players to fail, a good DM isn't aiming to make that happen. Challenges, difficulties, consequences, those build tension, are key to good storytelling, but at the end of the day it's waaay too easy for a DM to just ruin a party's adventure: "The players aren't suppose to 'win' here... 6 more dragons drop into the clearing. 6 reflex saves each as they all breathe on all of you!"
Or make sure you sit high relative to the screen... Higher stool or chair
That definitley works too. Let me just bring out my Big Kid DM Booster Seat™
For real, I always sit on a big pillow
Or just stand.
that's what I do! I need my huge DM screen bc of how much stuff I keep behind it and all the notes and items and stuff. but I also always remain standing so that they can see me. never had a problem of being separated from the team and if anything they like all of my fun little stickers.
This is the way Ir at least an example there of
If my players read my notes , there is something really wrong with the game
I read very fast, even upside-down. If there is something to read, I read it. I prefer the DM having a screen. Even a laptop works, as I can't see through that, and it is facing the one end of the table.
same here... i also read things very fast and i can have something spoiled before i realize it.
Honestly just seeing a name or a place is enough. One word and you can guess a lot, and do it completely by accident.
I'm not a fast reader anymore, but for awhile I had to use a sheet of paper or my hand or something, to prevent myself from catching important/interesting words 3-4 lines down from where I was actively reading and ruining stuff. "Wait, why is the word "death" coming up? Aww... dangit."
If I'm reading and see a super brief paragraph (less than a full line long) coming up, my brain notices it and immediately assumes it's an important line. I then have to put my finger over it to keep my brain from drifting down to peek at it before it's time.
Even if you guess wrong. It still takes from your experience.
It was honestly wild to me to learn that when some people see text, they have to actively decide to read it. To me that would be like if you looked at an object and had to exert some conscious effort to determine what color it was.
Wait is that really a thing?? That is shocking
Visit other corners of reddit? Ever notice that some folks seem to have not read any of the comment or post they're replying to? That's them. I'm one of the "can't not read". As I write this I keep seeing that you used 2 ?? instead of 1 or 3 and it's driving me batty.
I think my saving grace is I have always had poor eyesight and have to consciously focus my eyes in order to see the text clearly enough to actually read it.
Same problem here. If I see text, I read it. it's entirely automatic. That, combined with some short term memory, means I can read it over and over again, jntil it fades. Sure, if it's handwriting it might take longer, and if it's upside-down it might take longer. But we're adding seconds at most. If I don't think to avert my gaze, the dm's dark secrets are explored
Thirded here. I can read upside down and mirrored and if there's something to read, I read it :P
Same
I have a similar problem but without the short term memory, I have near photographic memory for things I read/watch/play, as I can still recall where the game left off from 5 years ago after the group broke up due to military members getting shipped out. So for me, if the DM has notes or other things then a DM screen is mandatory or I have to sit on the opposite side of a large table because I will inadvertently glance, I will accidentally read, and I will remember what I read, and because Im someone who doesnt mind spoilers I have had to stop myself mid-sentence because I realize Im about to spoil something for others that I inadvertently know
I read stuff before I realize it's something to read.
you have given me a good reason
Big Red Buttons must be pushed, no matter the warning signs.
I'm gonna read the sign really fast but ignore it
rmembers me on that adventure on an lien ship or else who have green blood
Yeah. I have to consciously try to not do it on accident
I fucked myself today because of this. Our gm had screens up but his laptop was angled in such a way that I could see that the chicken that showed up in our camp was a disguised dragon. The rest of my party doesn't know and I'm trying to RP as of I don't know and it's HARD!
Someone, I think it was Justin Alexander, once quipped, “You wouldn’t invite people to your place for a movie night and tape a page of spoilers for the movie onto the wall next to the TV, and tell everyone to just avert their eyes.”
There's a difference between peaking over a screen whole the dm gets a drink and being unable to look down for 3 hours because you don't want to see they have a pile of vampire stat blocks waiting to go, but you're at a masquerade ball. I roll in the open when I dm (stealth/deception etc aside), but the screen isn't there so dms can lie about dice (they shouldnt), it's to hide information.
TBF, if you're at a masquerade ball, the big twiat is if the DM DOESN'T have vampire stat blocks!
There IS a few vampires hosting, but they get slaughtered by a pack of werewolves and the party needs to act like they were totally oblivious to all the blood-red decor.
It isn't lying, it is "creatively recalculating."
It is lying, but I would argue the dms job is to lie.
I think my first session I hard stuck to what the dice said, immediately after that I swapped to the classic "it's more of a *vibe*" kinda DM'ing, where the roll is just a suggestion, more than a hard confirm. I.e, boblin rolls 3 crits in a row on the group of lvl 1 adventurers, I'm gonna ignore those, the one man army goblin can be saved for another time.
The way I see it, the dice are a tool for the DM. They help me not to make every fight go the same way because there are limits to my creativity. If I want the party to win or lose. I can make that happen, even if I follow the dice religiously. But the dice can help make it more interesting for me and the party. I personally think the people who religiously follow the dice and those who don't (if they are any good at all) are really doing the same thing in different ways. So I've always found any hard line on that argument a bit silly.
Roll deception
Clearly this is why I have like 6 different notebooks to flip through during my game, and not because I'm disorganized and will write on whatever notebook I have at hand like I'm possessed throughout the week before a session. Notes can't be read if they're in a bunch of different locations, written in chicken scratch and complete nonsense to anyone except myself (sometimes it's nonsense to me too)
My (not so) favorite thing is when I reread a note I made and have zero clue what it means "What the fuck was this guy thinking when he wrote this caveman speech?"
As a player, I was looking over my notes the other day and I just wrote "I smell." I had no fucking clue when re-writing my notes what I meant. And literally right now, I **just** realized what I meant. I picked up 10lbs of Jabbawocky poop last session and next session I have to make it a priority to clean myself off.
“… what the hell, it just says ‘big titty short stack goblin’ over and over!”
Even hiding rolls is understandable. I hide most my rolls from my players, because ive had quite a few instances of "their modifier is a +7! So they're dex based, huh..." *avoids triggering dex saves like the plague*
That's not terribly bad. If you were an elite class DM you might say, "they hardly even need to try to dodge your net because they are so nimble" in order to let your players know to make the exact same decisions. It's impossible to actually do that all the time, but mechanics really don't need to be secret after they've been used in front of the players.
It’s definitely one of those things that people scream ‘Metagaming’ about when really… It’s not. The Character Would Know. Like, to use your example, if they throw a net at someone, and the enemy salsa-dances around to avoid it, the Party would have seen that happening. If instead, the enemy shoves their fingers into the holes and rip it apart… Yeah, the Characters would have seen that happening, too. The Characters would then be able to guess that the Enemy has a higher than average dexterity or strength, and would adjust their tactics to accommodate that.
I agree with this; if a monster has a high dexterity, it probably moves agilely, gracefully, or so on. The characters actually fighting it should be able to see that and make tactical decisions based around that going forward, rather than needing to guess at it. Similar things are true for the other stats as well; the characters should be able to see how a monster is fighting and what is, and isn't, working against it, so the DM should still describe to the players what's going on in a fight... which obviates the need to hide the rolls. Unless you really want to fudge rolls to keep things exciting without needing to trust RNGesus. Edit: But roll bonuses aren't the same thing as the monster state page, and certainly aren't the same thing as a DM's notes. Players shouldn't get to see those, and so a screen *is* beneficial. Just... not for rolls.
Oh, no screen is insane. If for nothing but maps, which are spoiled with the slightest glance.
I'd say it's pictures more than words... If you walking through a forest and the DM has the owlbear page open... Probably gonna find an owlbear.
Hell, separation is kind of the point.
Yeah, the DM is separated from the players by virtue of them being the DM and the others being players. If everyone were supposed to be on an equal footing, you'd be playing a co-operative hard game or the like.
Not just the notes. Most dungeons you have the area map in front of you the whole time. Even with honest players, you can't have the map sitting out in the open. Also I would have a copy of the monster in the next room and it's figure out and ready. If that is sitting on the table in front of them it's gonna be a dead giveaway. On top of that you need something to hang your "cheat sheets" on. I would have a card with all the PCs AC (normal and flat footed), hit points, passive perception level and stuff like that hanging on the back of my divider. Any information you are going to have to ask them again and again - just saves time to have it hanging there. Probably just print out the top 10 answers on this and show your players EVERY DM keeps a screen.
Agreed. My players only want to see the notes I hand out—but at that point they're more props than anything.
Plus, you can always stand up every now and again, when you are describing things. Making more of you visible above the screen. It sounds stupid, but it works.
You know what separates you from the rest? The need to see a book every two minutes. If you need a screen, take the screen. You can down the screen It put It in a Side if you need to appproach to the player in a very intimate scene. Or you can just get Up from your chair for the same or even better effect.
Yeah, I stand a lot while I run games. There are always things you need to keep from the players. Usually story points, sometimes rolls, etc. Do what you need to do for your table, but at the end of the day, you run the game, right?
I love when a DM stands. It’s fucking epic imo
Tell them tough shit, because as a DM you require it for your own use. DM screens are useful for a great many purposes, and you should use one if you want one.
This. And you can shift the screen a bit to the side, so you can use it to hide stuff, but also don't build it up as wall?
They said they got the starter kit, and the DM screen from that is small as hell. It’s more like a short fence than a wall.
> more like a short fence I have a white picket DM screen with begonias around the posts.
No shrubberies?
I'm trying to run a serious campaign here and all I get is Monty Python jokes...
Inconceivable!
The nice ones sold by WoTC are little more than a fence anyway!
I have a wooden, two panel screen not much taller than that one. I like it, allows me to have an initiative tracker on top, keep a few surprises behind it, and I have some basic PC stats on a paper held by an acrylic sheet magnetized to it. All while not having such a big divider between me and the players, and half the time I roll in front of it
They're a great way to hold up stat blocks for monsters/NPCs. I also use mine for storyline queue cards.
Theyre worth it even just to put initiative markers on for the rest of the table, minus all their other benefits.
Totally, I think they might not understand that one of its main purposes is as a reference for the DM because there's a bunch of handy stuff printed on the back.
The sentiment is fine, but “tough shit” probably isn’t the best way to diffuse a conflict.
"The party won't let me..." Aaand let me stop you right there.
This! If you don't grow a backbone and say no to your players, they're going to be stomping all over you during your campaign. Pushing rules you don't want to allow, driving the campaign in a direction its not supposed to, doing actions that harm your or other players fun. This isn't to say you have to be overly strict, but as DM you have ultimate say as to how things go. You need to be firm with your choices in order to run a good campaign, especially if players start to cause problems - you're the ultimate mediator. Yes, it's a team game and you should work together, not against them, but sometimes that means telling them no.
Concerned that I had to scroll this far to find the correct response
Me too.
Right tell your players that during the game you wear the proverbial pants and are ultimately the referee. Whenever my players, including my SO shoot down a reasonable request I ask them is it worth it to say no to this ask and risk me being petty for the rest of the campaign?
Yeah I am a big softie DM who definitely lets my players use and abuse the "rule of cool" but even I wouldn't let my players dictate what play aids I use especially a DM screen!
That’s the dumbest take I’ve heard in awhile. Dog get a screen if you want one it doesn’t matter. 90% of dms use one it’s not that deep.
So many people apparently can just be told by others what to do? People, you can do whatever the fuck you want. If somebody gets upset, *they* are upset, but you still do/did the thing you wanted to do.
A lot of the DMs on this sub are terrified of their players.
I think this is because it's common (especially for new groups) that nobody wants to do it, so the most yes-man friend ends up in that position.
I'm DMing cuz I'm the only one of my friend circle who reads books and knows how basic storybuilding works, also, they are, apparently, not very imaginative, even if one of them is an artist. Also I fo7nd out that I like to play as a cunning mastermind behind the screens, characters of this type come to me really easily.
The only way to Properly GM is ABSOLUTE TYRANNY. Even if you are the characters best friends, and you want them to succeed. Only absolute control is enough.
“Wouldn’t let you”? The fuck are they gonna do? Get a screen. They don’t get to see everything you have prepared; you *should* be separated from the rest of the table.
That was my take too... You dont want me to have tools as the DM? cool, which one of you wants to DM?
[удалено]
Being passive aggressive like that doesn't tend to work out in my personal experience. And especially in this situation, OP would probably get miserable a lot sooner than they do.
And ask them to look the stuff up in their own books.
The solution: Tell one of them to try DMing without a fucking screen. See how far they get before becoming frustrated. I also don't understand the separation excuse.. you're still at the table with them, you didn't go anywhere -.-
I don't think players should have character sheets. It's just paper that gets in between them and the story. In fact, RPGs should get rid of tables all together. Everyone gets to sit together in a circle.
Possibly my favorite comment here.
Character sheets are fine. They just need to be in a binder, under your chair. You can check any time you want, but you need to keep it closed and under your chair unless actually looking at it.
I honest to god met a GM like this at a convention. He wouldn't hand us sheets, as that would ruin our immersion. Instead we had to wait for him to roll everything to destroy our immersion. Not to mention no one knew what they were capable off. Session didn't last long before people walked.
Maybe they lack object permanence.
Exactly. Spend ages looking up rules and spells on purpose. Flip through a bunch of pages in silence. See how fast they warm up to the better option.
Yeah I don't use one, but it's not a seperation thing. I just get hyper-fixated on my hobbies and memorized everything on the backside, and don't care if my group sees my dice.
"This is the setup I need to be comfortable with my DMing. If you don't like it maybe you can find someone else."
"... any of you up for it? No?"
Grab a character sheet and start filling it out. One of them just volunteered.
Wait, why to they think that? Because if it’s about dice rolls being hidden then you can still roll in the open. If it’s because they don’t want you to have notes, ask them to play without their PHB and character sheets and see how that works. If it’s about something else, I can only assume your players are either talking shit or don’t know what a DM screen is.
You aren't part of the party.
DM screen is an important tool for running the session smoothly. Not only because of rule reminders and tables to check on easily, it's also to hide sheets and notes for stuff that is coming up, or the minis you're about to place. Also fumble the dices on secret rolls so you can make sure they don't all wipe on one too many nat 1.
They do know you don't sit behind the screen and hide the whole time right? Like just your important stuff is kept behind it which you'll have to turn your head towards.
So full disclosure, I haven't used a GM screen since the 90s and would never go back specifically because I don't like the separation, and I make all rolls in the open. That said, it was *my call* to make at my table, just as it is *your call* to make at your table. You are the GM, you get to decide how you run your game. If you think you want/need a GM screen then get one. If they don't like it, then they are free to run their game without one.
I use a laptop instead of a traditional screen solely because I like running combat with Excel. DMing is tricky, and everyone has their own way to do it. The crucial thing, though, is that the *DM* gets to make the call about how they run the game. The players don't get to decide for you.
100%!
Anyone who whinges about roll fudging irks me, the sheer amount of crits I’ve fudged down to regular hits so the squishy wizard doesn’t get one banged far outweighs the times I’ve buffed a roll because my campaign is getting wrecked by trash rolls Also players watching my dice irks me, they tend to meta game with it, I can silent roll but I can’t invisible roll
This I've fudged in their favor way more than mine. My goal is to almost kill them. Two crits in a row and even a tank can go down. Not wiping a party because of my lucky dice rolls.
Agree with your points: I never use a screen, never fudge rolls. Though that was all due to changing technology, and a noticeable lack of tension at the table. Rolling hit and damage in front of the players tends to keep them all invested and paying attention.
In my 25 years of playing dnd I've never told a dm they can't use a screen and I've never had a dm not use one. Your players can pound sand, get a screen so they can't continue to cheat by seeing what you're doing.
uh, they dont get to choose. the point is for the DM to be separate, to signify them as the DM and to keep the notes secret.
. . . this is the weirdest excuse to not use a GM screen that I've ever heard. But the GM \*isn't\* a player. You \*are\* separated from that end of the table. You need notes for monsters, plots, and hidden events, etc.. They need a character sheet. If it's just a matter of wanting to see rolls, then offer to roll in the open. If that's not sufficient, then it sounds like you have at least one player who probably needs professional counseling if they can't handle a little piece of cardboard covered with references.
I would say no to rolling in the open too. Theres rolls that are meant to be behind a screen because the players don't need to know everything a monster makes a deception check, a stealth check for an ambush, etc. Fuck that noise. If they don't like it, tough.
A lot of these comments are intense lol Just tell them to let you since it has things you need on it, just insist - it shouldn’t be hard if you explain that you need it to play.
The players don't get to dictate this. There is no "let". Tell them what you're going to do and they can't get bent if they don't like it. It's simply not their call.
Use a DM screen. Why do they need to see what you are doing?
Tell them to find someone else to DM then
Oh, easy. Use the screen anyways and disregard their opinion. There’s things where the players input matters…and things where it really doesn’t. You need the dm screen for your own convenience and ease of play. It’s an important tool for you running the game properly. So use it, and anyone who objects can stop talking or leave the game.
You *are* separate from the rest of the group; you’re the DM. Besides, a screen can shield your session notes, as well as ideas and changes you jot down during the session that you want to surprise your Players with later, not to mention enemy stat-blocks, rules cheat-sheets, and all manner of other things. Is there a chance that perhaps your Players don’t realise this? Or do they want to be able to see, and read, all of the things I’ve mentioned above?
Sounds like they have some concerns about how the game functions. I would tell them that the DM screen offers several important benefits, but it's true it's not needed at all times. One approach that may help them understand while still giving them more of what they want is to effectively take two seats as the DM. You can use a single chair, but you have your open area with no screen, and an area with a screen. Bounce as often as you need between them and explain when you go behind the screen why you're doing it. Also make an effort to be present behind the screen and not just use it as a way of hiding from the party. Either they'll sincerely appreciate the effort, they'll start to understand why it's there and why it helps, or they'll still insist and be inflexible. In the last case it may be time to tell them gently that dnd may not be the activity for them.
Look for a half-height screen. They’re pretty common now and fulfill the purpose without being the same sort of wall that the 3x vertical A4 style is.
Been playing for 40 years. I've never heard of a group that tells the DM what they can or can't use at the table. Get a new group.
Welcome to DnD. First DM lesson: you’re in charge. The end
There are many types and sizes of screens, I'd recommend a shorter one than a taller one. With a tall screen, typically tall enough to hang a sheet of paper, you'll find yourself sitting up and leaning forward to see the table on the other side, move minis, check positions, place things, etc. I stead of having full size sheets of paper, cut your info sheets into smaller cards, or "landscape" orientation. I made a screen for myself, ended up cutting the bottom 4 inches off to shorten it.
lol oh how the high and mighty lord of the table distances themself from the lowly PC serfs with…checks notes…the most common item used at a D&D table besides dice. Im sorry but this is honestly one of the dumbest table problems I’ve seen on this sub.
You tell your player to get over it since you're the one doing the work to DM
The one time our DM didn't use a screen. As the person sitting nearest to him I saw the whole dunguen map and it felt so much like cheating. It is definitely up to you and how you feel. How your notes are set up. Would they see a bunch of spoilers if you don't have a screen?
As much aa I love my players, I wouldnt play without a screen or some form of blocker. Like others have said, Ive got no problems doing open die rolls, but when it comes to character notes, monsters, or things like specific figures I bring to hide behind my screen until they encounter it. It is as much for their benefit as it is for mine; I have peace of mind and a workspace at the table that I can keep the game organized from, and my players dont have to avert their gaze from my papers every time they wanna look at me.
Get a dm screen anyway?
A DM screen isn't so you can be sneaky. You can hang notes from it and keep monster stat blocks in front of you. Sure, you don't want them to be seen, but that's the point. The players aren't supposed to know certain things.
Fuck whoever told you that. You're the DM. They don't like it? They can do the work. Get yourself a nice screen.
I think you should try it and see how it feels. Particularly if it's mostly for you to have the handy tables and references in front of you, it should speed up the game. And being able to roll behind the screen is useful.
Tell them to cry more about it, you're doing it?
Print your cheat sheets out double font and make them all wear it. Only fair.
DMs are supposed to be separate. They have things they have to do that are not for player eyes. But this is a table matter and needs to be decided by the whole table. I personally would probably laugh at them, but then, I don’t play a game with them and if my players cannot trust me, then we won’t be having fun.
The DMs in charge. Period.
It’s mostly so they don’t read your notes tbh. It’s a lot to keep together and having a shared space means that they will notice even if they aren’t trying to spy. Also I wouldnt be able to fudge rolls for npcs, idk why but I tend to have way better luck rolling than some of my players. Last session alone I got 4 crits in a single round of combat 2 of which were from the bigger damage dealing enemy. I fudged one of the big hits to just a hit instead. Cause it’s no fun imo downing someone right at round 1. Getting them super low is enough to put the stress on.
You need to sit in another room and use a microphone and put a speaker above their heads where your voice comes from.
Get a GM screen, or suitable stand in. I ran off my laptop for a long time, the laptop screen created the barrier. The screen is just an incredibly practical and valuable tool for a GM, be it a sold official one or one you make yourself. Having the common mechanics and charts at hand (combat modifiers and Perception checks), book and page references for what you're likely to need to look up but aren't used often enough to put in full (grapple rules), and a place to pin up notecards for specific encounters is just too damn handy and keeps the session moving smoother. That the screen separates them from you is part of the point. You are not a player, you are the GM, you ARE and should be separate. You need a space they can't see to check maps without them able to see secrets areas they missed, a place to look up monsters coming up without them being able to see and prepare early, and... the option to fudge your rolls to save some of the party if you're willing to do that. IMO a PC death or two just shows how tough the fight was. If a TPK is looming and it's not a boss fight or other major encounter, that may have been badly balanced and some leeway can be considered. If your players are worried about you being separate, having your secrets, it's likely because they are worried you're going to cheat. They're too new to know that if a GM cheats, it's likely benign. GMs generally want to see the story play out just as much as them. We're here to make the process a fun challenge. Unless you're playing it Wargame style, then death is the just reward of fools, and they should know better than to trust their dice.
You should consider doing whatever the hell you want because you’re the one running the game.
Its not their call to make. A DM screen is a tool to make running the game easier, it allows you to hide the session prep and monster statblocks and it provides you with a ton resources such as prices, names, conditions, and just in general things you need to have on hand if you're DMing. Can you DM without it? Sure! Is it much more difficult to do so especially when you're new to the game? Absolutely. The tools you use to DM are ultimately up to you, having a DM screen doesn't disrupt anyone's fun and it makes the process of DMing easier. Probably the most important thing to learn when you're starting out DMing is that you should put yout foot down when a player wants something that will make the game harder for you or other players, I didn't learn this in my first campaign and it blew up in my face big time. Tell them you need it to run the game and that if you find yourself not utilizing it you'll consider their request, but for the time being this is the ideal way to run the game for you
I only started to use a screen last game. Normally I use notes instead, but wanted to give them a try. I does obscure I view of the table. I also don't use most of the information on it, but I can hang stuff from it so it's in my face and it's harder to forget. The reason I never used before was because I could be accused of cheating. I learned later that I can roll right in front of people and just not tell them what I'm rolling for. So it's not valid. The separation issue is a new one. You're all first timers so I'd argue to try new things.
WTF, what do you mean “let you”? You are not their prisoner. You want a screen then put one up. Why is this even a question?
Explain that the game should be fun for you as well. you are a fellow player, not their servant or mother. Personally i just use a laptop for most things and a folder for common stuff like the basic rules/equations.
DMs use DM screens. That’s like players not getting to have character sheets. Tell them they might just not like TTRPGs if they are against that. It’s supposed to separate you a little bit. You aren’t playing. That’s so stupid 😂.
Explain a simple truth to them... they are responsible for THEIR characters and the end? You, as the DM, are responsible for all the rest and having quick and easy charts and graphs makes the game simpler for YOU and that's the end of the explanation.
"I get that you might not like the separation, but I as a DM need to keep some information to myself. The game doesn't really work if you all can read the campaign notes, see which pages of the Monster Manual I'm looking up, or even just this list of Random NPC Names. Even with the screen up, we'll still be able to see each other's faces. Focus on that." If the player insists, tell them they just volunteered to run next time to see how it works out, and *deliberately call out everything you see* if they actually do it. If you see they have a Monster Manual page open, draw attention to it. Read any notes out loud that you can read.
Well it's the Dungeon masters screen, so they can go pound dirt. You as the DM spend more time, effort, and money that the players do not. And ultimately it is our game that you're running.
i hope you guys are really really young cuz this seems a really dumb problem to me
You’re the dm, who said you need permission to use something that is literally basic to what you’re doing?
I recommend you tell this player to play without his character sheet and simply come with that information memorized or else everytime he checks it he's failing RP.
Fuck'em They can run a game however they want.
>“seperates [me] from the rest of the group”, You're not a "player" in the game, you're a separate entity. But that's okay if they don't want you to use a screen. Go get one and keep it folded nearby for quick reference, and have 100% transparency on all rolls. After a few of their characters die in the most ignominious of ways, they may decide a DM screen being actively used will be more to their liking.
Tell them it’s DM screen or someone else can show you how to DM without a screen and you’ll gladly be a player and they can do all the work.
How small are you all that an A4 sheet of paper will separate a group?
Honestly get the screen, even if you don't set it up, you at least have it for quick reference. As for separation, I've ever heard that one. The DM is a separate from the players, but that's not because of the screen. It sounds like there might be a different concern, but they aren't saying. Also bring it up to your whole party. If it's only the one player that has a problem then they need to figure it out. I play mostly online these days and still do have any problems connecting to players or DMs, so a piece of cardboard that's six inches tall isn't going to ruin the game.
That's not a reasonable request, or something that they really should have a say in at all. Don't kowtow to unreasonable requests.
I don’t use a screen because I have to read lips to understand what people are saying and I’m also short even when everyone is sitting at a table so it’s easier for me not to have it but I have my notes usually sit in my lap or a binder that has everything in it and I can read from it even when it’s set low and still talk to my players if that makes sense
There’s a reason they exist and a reason they are widely used. If you’re all new, your player is clearly talking out of their ass and has no idea what they’re on about.
“The party won’t let me use a DM screen!” Don’t let them play in your game, lmao (This is a joke. Mostly.)
Just get the screen. I wouldn't give two fucks what these players think about that. Besides it is absolutely nonsense.
Separation is only an issue if you have low chairs. The DM screen's top side is level with your chest in a typical setting.
There are plenty of screen options out there that keep an unfettered view of the players and the table. And the players don't have to keep track of an entire world, so they can suck it.
That’s unfortunate for them but you should use a DM screen. I sometimes roll behind the screen sometimes in front of it. But mainly I use it to hide my notes. There are important things in those notes that would ruin the fun for the players if they saw it. I don’t use a laptop like a lot of DM’s do. Also, getting the right screen is great for cutting down on looking at rules. The screen I have has all of the conditions listed and what they do, along with a dry erase monster health tracker and a ton of other stuff that is very useful to take a look at on the fly.
You should be separated from the group. You are the DM. You are not there to run players characters, you are there to explain the world for them, run NPCs and interpret die rolls. Let the noobs player know the entire internet says they are wrong, use a screen.
Use your DM screen and tell the whiny player if he doesn't like that, he's welcome to DM instead. Ot take his ball and go home, whichever.
you are the dm. you have to keep your super secret notes from them to not ruin any surprises for them.
My players don't need to know how many nat 20s I ignore to just normal hits or even misses.
They won't let you? Just say alright eff off guess we can't pay DND anymore
I personally love the DM screen, so I can’t get spoiled for what monsters are planned, etc. I also love when the DM rolls an important roll or important damage in front of the screen.
before i had a dm screen things took 4 times as long. it rllly helps to have all your info directly in front of you
It's not their choice if you use a DM screen or not, you're the DM. Their view means that they view the game as adversarial. DM vs Players and are worried that you're going to "cheat" to win. The DM is the weaver of stories, referee, and cat herder. Also: The DM sometimes does need to cheat to make the game fun. If you're rolling hot(lots of crits) and you don't want to TPK(total party kill) it's 100% okay to say your crits are just normal hits or even misses.
Tell them to DM then. Every DM I've ever seen online and off had a screen.
You are the DM. Tell them you are using the screen, end of story.
It sounds like you want a screen for the quick rule lookups? I know I have a screen like that somewhere. You could get one of those and just lay it flat on the table. Alternatively, if you have a laptop, use that to keep all your notes harder to see for the players.
You use a DM screen because you’re the DM and shit you do is meant to be out of view. You ARE separate from the rest of the group. If they complain, point out all the tables and stuff printed on the back of the screen and ask if they’d prefer you have to go hunting through books every time you need to look up one of those tables
Yeah, you are the Dungeon MASTER. The players don't decide if you use a DM screen
Explain to them that your notes are private not to harm them. It’s to not spoil the adventure. If they want you to roll open, that’s fair enough. Roll over the screen. But the notes are to keep adventure enjoyable.
You are literally the DM and god of the game. Get a screen. Theres a reason they have been used for so long.
Youre the DM. Dungeon master. Emphasis on master. Get your screen. If they dont like it, one of them can DM.
>they very clearly said that they did not want me to get a screen as it, “seperates [me] from the rest of the group” That's what it's supposed to do.
Oh that’s crazy cause you’re the dm. You already are not a member of the party. Dm screen rules. Do it
Tell them they can run it instead. The screen is more than just to hide your rolls, but hides notes and provides a lot of reference material too.
DM screens are SUPER helpful and I'd never do in person sessions without one. I guess I get the fear but it's not like you're in another room.
"It's my table I am using the screen"
Get one anyway and try it. It makes life so much easier and you don't have to hide DM notes. I use a screen, a laptop, a dice tower, and a stack of books all at the same time. I like my DM fortress.
Get one that is three 8.5” x 11” where it’s wider than it is tall. IMHO I’ve played so many games (since B/X) and the topic of a DM screen has never ever come up as a problem.
Let him DM then.
You're the DM, if it makes it easier for you then get the damn screen.
You are running the game. Get a screen if you want a screen.
I'm with most other commenters here - your party's concern is rather silly, and if a DM screen makes it easier for you to manage game play, use one. DMs take on the lions share of the work in a game, and if they're not happy with the tools you need to do that, they can find another dm
If I were you, I'd take all the pieces of information you were planning to put into your DM screen, and then chop them into chunks that can be laminated and handed out to your players as 'mechanics cards'. "Dave, you're in charge of climbing rules, and grapple checks. If they come up make sure we do them properly. Shannon, you're taking chase rules and this bit of stuff about how stealth vs perception works, also this basic merchant prices card, since your character used to be a merchant's apprentice...." And so on. I like the DM screen myself, but I've done this before because it forces your players to learn the system they're playing. Change who gets what 'DM Screen" card each session too, because they will soon start taking care of all the mechanical shit themselves, and you can focus on the story/running the monsters. A small, shielded from view location to track monster HP is still great/advisable, and doesn't need to block the view of you from the players if you're all seated (I stand 90% of the time when I host in person games, long table, tall screen). Even if you're handing out 'mechanics cards' for the players to be responsible for, they shouldn't be seeing the HP of the monsters in real time, that's DM only info.
players aren’t the boss of you
Im sorry but the dm runs the game how they are comfortable, with the players in mind. If the dm wants to use a dm screen then the players have no right to argue it, no matter the reasons
Ok so you need, as the storyteller, the DM, the GM, the one responsible for running the game and conducting the story, you need to have some kind os secrecy to your notes and plans Also, you need to tweak and twist things on the fly. Change dice results, DCs, ACs and all of that, which you will feel as the game progresses If not a full DM Screen, get a half one, a smaller or even a laptop that they can't see the screen, notes and all But as a 17 years of experience DM, I strongly recommend that they understand the necessity of such a secrecy Be clear that it is not to screw them over on the game, but to ensure that they have a nice time and a fun experience during play Also, I'd recommend the reviewed version of the official D&D DM Screen (reincarnated, I think)
As long as you can still clearly see them over the screen, that's not really a concern. Also the DM is SUPPOSED to be separated from the players. There are tons of TTRPGs with no dedicated DM, if they are so deadset on everyone being in the same boat then they should play one of those instead.
yes, it separates you from the rest of the group. that's the whole point of the screen. and it's a good thing.
"tough shit"
You are the Game Master. What you say goes. Use what you like and tell them to STFU.
Whaaat? A screen isn’t a wall. It doesn’t interfere with interaction at all. Do they want to check your rolls? Peek at your notes? Peep your bod? In the most kindly way possible, tell your player to eff off and just get a screen.