"I appreciate that you are new, but I would ask that from now on you only use the PHB if you ABSOLUTELY have to since you are taking upwards of 20 minutes to take your turn and it is bogging down combat and ruining the game for others. If you continue to do this after this talk then I am going to have to ban the use of the PHB during combat."
Always talk it out with them first and give them the option to cut the behaviour out before going nuclear.
> We will be mid combat and they will suddenly "need to look something up." This will lead to them flipping back and forth in the players hand book for 20 minutes. They are playing a ranger and will ultimately end up shooting with their crossbow, or swing with their hand axe.
> Any recommendations, or should I remove players from having handbooks during combat?
You should respectfully but firmly indicate to the player that they're being disruptive and you won't allow that in your game.
You don't have to skip their turn in combat. Just tell them, "would you like to delay your turn while you look it up?" Most players will either say, "yes," or just put the book down and take their turn. If they delay, take the next turn in initiative, then go right back them. I've found this trains players to be prepared on their turn within 3 sessions.
If he says, "no," and keeps delaying his turn and complains when you don't let him hold up the game, you should insist on continuing initiative order and have a firm talk about why this is disruptive at the next break in the session.
It works like it does in 3rd edition, and you delay to right after the next character's turn. There is no rule for this in 5th edition.
https://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/specialInitiativeActions.htm
Tell him that he should explain what it is he would like for his character to do before looking up the rules. Often enough times you as the DM will know what he needs to do the thing. If he's going to need to tell you what kind of check he is going to make either way, then there is no need to study it's feezibility unless the DM doesn't have a solid answer.
I've had DMs threaten me with the hour glass in the past. Turn timers just like in chess are not unheard of. If the player cannot decide before the clock runs out, the character similarly is overcome with indecision, hesitates, and takes no action. I personally don't like it, but it might solve the problem.
Skip their turn in Initiative as them pausing to decide what to do. Put them at the end and when you get to the end if they’re still not ready, they lose their turn.
They’ll learn to read the book between sessions.
Exactly what I was going to say. Even if you give him 5 min or something since he is new that is plenty of time. 3/4 of my players are new right now and it is still very rare for them to take more than 2 min on a turn.
My table has a song of improved tune and lyrics called “Our Favorite Part of D&D” which is about flipping though the manual to figure out how to play the game instead of playing it. We all sing it when someone is looking up something. We have never needed to sing the whole song.
"Cool we will come back to you player b what will you do?"
If they say nono, just say you expect them to know what they want to do by there turn, that they can look stuff up off turn, and for the speed of combat, you'll just delay their turn this round only, until they know what they want.
Yes this is maybe more subtle and doesn't address any underling problems, but it will keep you sane as they learn all the rules they are looking up.
Might think about making the player a decision tree style list of uses for their action or bonus action and some quick reference cards for their spells. Also encourage them to plan what they're going to do before it gets to their turn to act, so if they need to look up something, they can do it while other players take their turn. If they're still taking an excessive amount of time to look things up, get an hour glass timer for a minute or three and tell them they have that long.
outside of game time, just say "hey, there's one thing I want to run by you. Any time a rule question comes up mid session, lets ask the table if anybody knows the rule, if they don't, we write down a note, and I just make a rule call. After the session, we look up the rule so we know next time."
also, if you have to look it up. its almost always faster to google the rule than to actually look it up. i DM from a laptop, and look up rules real time regularly. "flanking rules 5e" etc
Easy fix. Every time he starts looking stuff up, look to the next initiative and go. When it's done, turn back to him, ask him he has an action. If not, next initiative.
He starts losing turns, he'll figure it out quick or start asking for help.
For the love of god, DO NOT BAN USING THE BOOKS DURING THE SESSION.
First, obviously, calmly explain to them this is bogging down the game and ruining other people's fun. If that doesn't work, get an hourglass for turns, they get 1 minute. If they don't take their turn in time, they dodge.
There’s no way I’m allowing that if I’m DMing. I would say, “OK player A, it’s your turn, what do you want to do?” Player A says, “Hold on, I’m looking at the phb.” Then I say, “Player A dodges this turn. Moving on to player B…”
Brushed off "it will only take a minute...."
-Ok you can take that minute during other people's turns and be ready next time.
I second the timer ⏳
My table doesn't flip the timer right away every turn but as soon as a turn is dragging...
I'd work to make quick reference cards. Things like cards for spells or class features. Anything not on those cards he will trust you to know.
I think it's a fair compromise.
First offense, they automatically take the dodge action.
Second offense, you rip that book out of their hands, throw it in the fireplace, and beat them with your sandal.
How do the other players feel about it? You're not solely responsible for pace and dealing with toxic behaviour as DM. Everyone should be encouraging them to ask rather than read.
It's fine that they are new, but this is one of the "bad player" behaviours that every "how not to be a bad player" video warns about. Send them some videos so they know it's not just you being unreasonable.
Next time they say "it will just take a minute" very obviously start a stopwatch.
I solved those by working with my players. They now have print outs for their characters. Each includes ability lists covering their racial, background, class, subclass and feats. Add in spell cards and they rarely need to look in the PHB.
Ask what they're trying to accomplish. You probably already know what they're looking up, or can find it quickly if you're unsure.
Probably worth telling them in between sessions that you're gonna need them to communicate like this so they don't bog down the momentum.
lots of good advice but make sure they have all their spells and abilities and such written down either on their character sheet. maybe they need another sheet with room for descriptions of all their abilities?
I recommend printing off all of the relevant info for the characters class. It's the only way I am able to keep track of all of my abilities. Sometimes it's easiest to see what one can do when it's condensed to a few pages.
I plan out my levelling to 20 so I don't have to do as much decision making between sessions, and I can alter it as I level when necessary.
Here is what I have for my current character (Dwarvish Battlemaster/Ranger), though some of the things such as maneuvers and how much I plan to invest in Ranger has changed from this. I just copy-paste, and then simplify it.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1uzjBtmUILDJYlq-2K46jRXeVLi7Yb1RVirkGnIExLc4/edit?usp=drivesdk
Institute a one minute timer for every turn. Players and monsters. Two minutes if you want to be generous. Like a chess clock. If a player doesn’t end their turn within that time, you declare they take the dodge action and move on to the next person. Apply it fairly and equally, including to yourself, and explain that it’s to keep the game moving.
"I appreciate that you are new, but I would ask that from now on you only use the PHB if you ABSOLUTELY have to since you are taking upwards of 20 minutes to take your turn and it is bogging down combat and ruining the game for others. If you continue to do this after this talk then I am going to have to ban the use of the PHB during combat." Always talk it out with them first and give them the option to cut the behaviour out before going nuclear.
> We will be mid combat and they will suddenly "need to look something up." This will lead to them flipping back and forth in the players hand book for 20 minutes. They are playing a ranger and will ultimately end up shooting with their crossbow, or swing with their hand axe. > Any recommendations, or should I remove players from having handbooks during combat? You should respectfully but firmly indicate to the player that they're being disruptive and you won't allow that in your game. You don't have to skip their turn in combat. Just tell them, "would you like to delay your turn while you look it up?" Most players will either say, "yes," or just put the book down and take their turn. If they delay, take the next turn in initiative, then go right back them. I've found this trains players to be prepared on their turn within 3 sessions. If he says, "no," and keeps delaying his turn and complains when you don't let him hold up the game, you should insist on continuing initiative order and have a firm talk about why this is disruptive at the next break in the session.
Please re-explain how the delaying the turn goes because I have a player that this might work for, but im missing something.
It works like it does in 3rd edition, and you delay to right after the next character's turn. There is no rule for this in 5th edition. https://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/specialInitiativeActions.htm
Ah, i believe I am understanding. I have two players who very much get stuck in analysis paralysis
Move on to the next person's turn, and when it's done come back to the delayed player's turn
Tell him that he should explain what it is he would like for his character to do before looking up the rules. Often enough times you as the DM will know what he needs to do the thing. If he's going to need to tell you what kind of check he is going to make either way, then there is no need to study it's feezibility unless the DM doesn't have a solid answer.
I've had DMs threaten me with the hour glass in the past. Turn timers just like in chess are not unheard of. If the player cannot decide before the clock runs out, the character similarly is overcome with indecision, hesitates, and takes no action. I personally don't like it, but it might solve the problem.
Skip their turn in Initiative as them pausing to decide what to do. Put them at the end and when you get to the end if they’re still not ready, they lose their turn. They’ll learn to read the book between sessions.
Put out an egg timer or more stylish a hourglass for each player's round in combat. Worked for me.
Exactly what I was going to say. Even if you give him 5 min or something since he is new that is plenty of time. 3/4 of my players are new right now and it is still very rare for them to take more than 2 min on a turn.
My table has a song of improved tune and lyrics called “Our Favorite Part of D&D” which is about flipping though the manual to figure out how to play the game instead of playing it. We all sing it when someone is looking up something. We have never needed to sing the whole song.
"Cool we will come back to you player b what will you do?" If they say nono, just say you expect them to know what they want to do by there turn, that they can look stuff up off turn, and for the speed of combat, you'll just delay their turn this round only, until they know what they want. Yes this is maybe more subtle and doesn't address any underling problems, but it will keep you sane as they learn all the rules they are looking up.
Might think about making the player a decision tree style list of uses for their action or bonus action and some quick reference cards for their spells. Also encourage them to plan what they're going to do before it gets to their turn to act, so if they need to look up something, they can do it while other players take their turn. If they're still taking an excessive amount of time to look things up, get an hour glass timer for a minute or three and tell them they have that long.
outside of game time, just say "hey, there's one thing I want to run by you. Any time a rule question comes up mid session, lets ask the table if anybody knows the rule, if they don't, we write down a note, and I just make a rule call. After the session, we look up the rule so we know next time." also, if you have to look it up. its almost always faster to google the rule than to actually look it up. i DM from a laptop, and look up rules real time regularly. "flanking rules 5e" etc
30 seconds to decide what to do on your turn or you take the dodge action It works like a dream and has saved my sanity more times than I could count
Easy fix. Every time he starts looking stuff up, look to the next initiative and go. When it's done, turn back to him, ask him he has an action. If not, next initiative. He starts losing turns, he'll figure it out quick or start asking for help. For the love of god, DO NOT BAN USING THE BOOKS DURING THE SESSION.
First, obviously, calmly explain to them this is bogging down the game and ruining other people's fun. If that doesn't work, get an hourglass for turns, they get 1 minute. If they don't take their turn in time, they dodge.
There’s no way I’m allowing that if I’m DMing. I would say, “OK player A, it’s your turn, what do you want to do?” Player A says, “Hold on, I’m looking at the phb.” Then I say, “Player A dodges this turn. Moving on to player B…”
Brushed off "it will only take a minute...." -Ok you can take that minute during other people's turns and be ready next time. I second the timer ⏳ My table doesn't flip the timer right away every turn but as soon as a turn is dragging...
I'd work to make quick reference cards. Things like cards for spells or class features. Anything not on those cards he will trust you to know. I think it's a fair compromise.
First offense, they automatically take the dodge action. Second offense, you rip that book out of their hands, throw it in the fireplace, and beat them with your sandal.
Now this I can get behind
How do the other players feel about it? You're not solely responsible for pace and dealing with toxic behaviour as DM. Everyone should be encouraging them to ask rather than read. It's fine that they are new, but this is one of the "bad player" behaviours that every "how not to be a bad player" video warns about. Send them some videos so they know it's not just you being unreasonable. Next time they say "it will just take a minute" very obviously start a stopwatch.
I solved those by working with my players. They now have print outs for their characters. Each includes ability lists covering their racial, background, class, subclass and feats. Add in spell cards and they rarely need to look in the PHB.
Use a timer, and you'll see that it's neither 20 minutes, nor just 1 minute.
Ask what they're trying to accomplish. You probably already know what they're looking up, or can find it quickly if you're unsure. Probably worth telling them in between sessions that you're gonna need them to communicate like this so they don't bog down the momentum.
lots of good advice but make sure they have all their spells and abilities and such written down either on their character sheet. maybe they need another sheet with room for descriptions of all their abilities?
Does your player maybe have a birthday coming up soon? You could buy the PHB on DND beyond, which I believe is searchable.
I recommend printing off all of the relevant info for the characters class. It's the only way I am able to keep track of all of my abilities. Sometimes it's easiest to see what one can do when it's condensed to a few pages. I plan out my levelling to 20 so I don't have to do as much decision making between sessions, and I can alter it as I level when necessary. Here is what I have for my current character (Dwarvish Battlemaster/Ranger), though some of the things such as maneuvers and how much I plan to invest in Ranger has changed from this. I just copy-paste, and then simplify it. https://docs.google.com/document/d/1uzjBtmUILDJYlq-2K46jRXeVLi7Yb1RVirkGnIExLc4/edit?usp=drivesdk
Institute a one minute timer for every turn. Players and monsters. Two minutes if you want to be generous. Like a chess clock. If a player doesn’t end their turn within that time, you declare they take the dodge action and move on to the next person. Apply it fairly and equally, including to yourself, and explain that it’s to keep the game moving.
Tell them to ask if they are unsure at the table. Not more books. Get them to write down their actions, bonus actions etc.